jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 461033 | Current Difficulty: 4.99635929816E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 461663 | Next Difficulty In: 630 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
shinohai: Are you THAT BIG a fan danielpbarron that you'd pay ~83 BTC for some sauce ?
ben_vulpes: from the interesting-claims-department: "we show that our targeted stack-spraying approach allows attackers to reliably control more than 91% of the Linux kernel stack, which, in combination with uninitialized-use vulnerabilities, suffices for a privilege escalation attack."
danielpbarron: shinohai, no i would not. might be adult swim bidding it up as a promo. On related note, wendy's fastfood chain is helping some highschool kid break world record retwats to promote their "chicken" nuggets. more than a million bots obliged in one day. goal is 18 million
☟︎ mircea_popescu: sooo... i went to this russian bath/blinyi house for a... russian rock concer.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 17:37 Framedragger: certainly not worth your time. and i understand. just find this 'call thief by default' funny; but it's probably borne of experience, simply
shinohai: hah mircea_popescu .... you survived the Russian chicks WITH NO POGROM!
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i enjoy the wendy's twitter
mircea_popescu: actually... the "russian rock concert" was a chick barely qualified to be the hottie in average senior hs class doing karaoke. her jeans were adorned with a scarf underlining her completely virginal inability to use her hips, and moreover she had one motor glove on, so it's ok.
mircea_popescu: but, get this. i ask for tea, girl promises in approximate spanish (do youspeak english ? nope. french ? nope.) that she'l;l show me. comes over with a bunch of early grey paper bags and cups of hot water.
mircea_popescu: NO FUCKING SAMOVAR. wtf is even the point, call it russian wanna-be house then
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 19:53 jurov: coinbr orders fixed. mircea_popescu pls to process
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 21:17 phf: well, fwiw i've no idea if you can make clim non-ugly (i'm not even sure at this point what "ugly" means. you certainly can't trivially make it look the way "people come to expect")
shinohai shudders at the thought of no samovar, would have pointed them to Eulora
ben_vulpes: so if i have a `std::map<ktype, std::vector<vtype>> stuffMap`, is it legal to say `stuffMap[k].push_back(newV)`
jurov: ben_vulpes: as they say - "moved networking to own thread. now i have two problems."
deedbot: BenBE voiced for 30 minutes.
Framedragger: relevant folks may be afk right now, tho. best to hang around after asking :)
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 22:44 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-08#1640534 << gurl dun like the disciplinary-sanitarium of 'civilized society' and gets diagnosed, unsurprisingly, with вялотекущая шизофрения (tm)(r)(su)
BenBE: Are the keys mentioned in the stats somehow available as e.g. one big PGP dump file each?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 02:34 danielpbarron: shinohai, no i would not. might be adult swim bidding it up as a promo. On related note, wendy's fastfood chain is helping some highschool kid break world record retwats to promote their "chicken" nuggets. more than a million bots obliged in one day. goal is 18 million
BenBE: Essentially yes :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform linked a dump at some point, check the logs. the principal parts are a sks+trims (keybase, whatnot) dump that might be still available, though 2 years back in logs, and Framedragger 's ssh scan results, which he might share with you.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck are all these people with penis pill spam still doing. seriously know, it's been out what, 20 years ? anyone who wants it has some / knows where to get it. who the fuck goes "oh, wow, check it out, penis pills! ima get myself sum o dat!"
BenBE: Getting the keys from the website is possible, but needing to scrape them is somewhat a bad solution (for all sides). The project I'm currently working on is an information service where you can ask for a public key or its fingerprint and the service will tell you some stuff about that key (type, where it was used before, has it been factored, is it sensibly sane, compromised and so on.
mircea_popescu: and where the hell is the "oh, cocaine, will get you high!!1" spam.
mircea_popescu: BenBE so you mean sorta like phuctor but with less information ?
shinohai suddenly remembers cocaine has properties that make it almost as effective as dick pills .....
mircea_popescu: shinohai much better : the cocke you feed to the girls!
mircea_popescu always prefers to treat all conditions with pills ~other people~ swallow.
mircea_popescu: the way to paradise is paved with other people's deglutition.
shinohai: Pills are like phone apps in America it seems. "Oh you have the sniffles? There's a pill for that!"
BenBE: mircea_popescu: Like phuctore, but larger scope of key base (also covers X.509)
mircea_popescu: shinohai could it nuke those <>; it fucks up the logotrons
mircea_popescu: BenBE apparently x.509 is a john smithism, "here's a wrapper for reality i created because i'm from america and here we're retarded". what specifically do you mean, ecdsa ?
shinohai: I need to dig deeper into that, last attempt at removing the <> resulted in breaking the whole damned thing because python is a turd.
Framedragger: eh there was a plan for phuctor to ingest these certs, too, i think?
mircea_popescu: shinohai seems easier though to chase you to drop it than to add it to the log standards.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger phuctor being a republic item it can only eat realities. how is it going to eat "evanghelical church" ? bitch, unwrap your branding, what is it ?
mircea_popescu: i dun expect we're going to be doing anything but rsa because well... how ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: sure. but there are rsa keys in
https certs out there. but yet to be empirically approached and estimated, sure
mircea_popescu: i thought it's a 100% imperial racket, they use whatever faux crypto currently fashionable.
mircea_popescu: i guess could try and fish out the actual rsa keys from self-signed certs maybe
mircea_popescu: are they verizon issued ? or whatever the imperial anointed scammer involved with this racket is
Framedragger: not only self-signed - in
https you can have public rsa key but with additional 'chain' of imperial. still extractable
mircea_popescu: you're asking me to find the second-possible cause of death of a corpse.
mircea_popescu: "But doc, had THIS not killed him, what would have next ?"
shinohai: ( It's foss, so don't shoot me )
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's my stance : it is pointless to inquire in the mathematical security of x.509 and related source schemes, because they are not secure by design anyway.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: I planned on DSA/ECDSA, but that's quite low on the priority list right now. Attack on both works somewhat different and requires data collection not as easily obtained as with RSA.
BenBE: Some basic idea on old attacks (nonce reuse in particular), not fully up-to-date
mircea_popescu: seems if you were going after ecdsa you'd attack the curves not the keys. kind of a wasted effort seeing how the curve authors already know the holes and why the fuck would i bother when blacklisting works so well. but anyway.
Framedragger: i don't personally think it's a completely wasted effort if any backdoors in parameters are opened up to all, vs. just the owners.
BenBE: Lacking the resources for performing the ECDSA part right now anyway (thus low on the priority list)
Framedragger: you may be underestimating the scope of EC crypto in use on teh world. (then again, why should one care about a broken world anyway, sure)
mircea_popescu: and especially as a small and high mommentum entity you DO NOT want to go chasing any "large investment upfront payout way later" deals. so much "low investment payout over time in exponential fahsion" holes still available.
BenBE: There's quite some EC in use currently. And be it all those "transparency logs"
mircea_popescu: that's kind-of the principal impedance mismatch tmsr gotta deal with : the natural membership is highly technically skilled, which in general comes out of a tendency to focus and follow in depth. this means it selects for a certain bias in task seleciton. however, due to tactical considerations, most of the useful work is exactly opposite.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 14:17 asciilifeform: if i had insisted, phuctor would still be a waited-for thing
BenBE: mircea_popescu: Mostly the Certificate Transparency logs used by browsers, block chains used in many (if not most) crypto currencies. All public records containing both public keys and signatures made by them.
BenBE: Thus exactly the information you need to attack those keys by looking for nonce reuse isses.
mircea_popescu: well, hopefully this problem gets resolved by crap not making it into trb-i
deedbot: BenBE voiced for 30 minutes.
BenBE: Well, IMHO it's not that most crypto is bad. It's the systems it's used in. Plus, most systems are quite fixed on one particular algorithm yielding an easy-to-attack ecosystem.
mircea_popescu: BenBE this imho stuff is no good because we don't know who you are. who are you ?
jhvh1: BenBE, who is your daddy and what does he do?
BenBE: I'm the maintainer of the GeSHi syntax highlighter for PHP, which is used in e.g. Wikipedia for source highlighting of articles. Also working on several crypto-related projects like my own TLS/SSL test, a collection of publicly-known set of compromised keys, an OpenSource management software for handling X.509 certificate issuance for a certificate authority.
☟︎ jhvh1: That's a lot of words to not tell me who your daddy is.
mircea_popescu: shinohai dun knock it, might've been the best answer to date. except perhaps that reuters chick.
deedbot: DBCDD109DEB2BF7812D6056F3E26EAC5AE73583E registered as BenBE.
shinohai may make a compilation of "Who is your daddy" replies one day ...
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 13:48 BenBE: I'm the maintainer of the GeSHi syntax highlighter for PHP, which is used in e.g. Wikipedia for source highlighting of articles. Also working on several crypto-related projects like my own TLS/SSL test, a collection of publicly-known set of compromised keys, an OpenSource management software for handling X.509 certificate issuance for a certificate authority.
mircea_popescu: !!v B67FA3B83D21D098FF4B283327F3DB37C667FF2FF4E23338340B30BF90C32BD4
mircea_popescu: BenBE now you can self-voice (!!v ) ; do that it'll save us the trouble to up you.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: thx.
BenBE: You mean WOT as in Web-of-Trust?
mircea_popescu: tmsr relies on a rsa-based wot implementation. for instance
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
BenBE: mircea_popescu: No only PHP, but also C/C++, Java, web stuff, ASM (mostly x86/x64), Haskell, shell scripting, ... Also, as we are at WoTs:
https://keybase.io/benbe shinohai: !~later tell pete_dushenski Entry in bots directory for "Time since last block" has transposed letter, should be `tslb` - Thanks!
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
BenBE: Framedragger: That's one of the resources I will be sourcing my Key Information service from. Contains the private keys for e.g. the OpenSSL Debian Weak Keys (complete)
Framedragger: oh, nice to have all of them at one place, convenient
mircea_popescu: Framedragger do you currently cache the whole phuctored dir ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: everything except sadmods so as not to upset phuctor too much. need to discuss frequency of caching with asciilifeform i think
mircea_popescu: need a better method than downloading the whole list of shit you already know every time.
Framedragger: rsa truncates, etc etc, other methods (pg notify / etc as mentioned by trinque) require asciilifeform's intervention
Framedragger: i don't think rsa gives all, just 'first 10' or sth
Framedragger: eh it's like facebook, i have a shitty facebook acct, too
mircea_popescu: Framedragger dja mean rss ? that's the fucking point, to truncate, so you don't keep getting ancient data
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i mean that not *all* new entries are included, rsa truncates, them, too. asciilifeform can confirm tho.
mircea_popescu: i wasn'\t aware it does, that's what deedbot uses to pipe here also
Framedragger: asciilifeform: oh, so only the deedbot announcer here on irc excludes some new keys?
mircea_popescu: does not exclude new keys, excludes middle chars of found factors.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: if you check, the hrefs on that index page link to phuctored.html on siphnos etc
Framedragger: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ok, sorry for that then
BenBE: asciilifeform: it's not totally broken (as with GnuPGs normal WoT) in that it makes transparent to not expect too much from it, appart from account associations.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: the only external-dump link there is sadmods (not yet cached - again, unsure of impact on phuctor performance)
Framedragger: and presumably sadmods as well in the future (again, not yet cached)
mircea_popescu: hopefully we don't end up with too many people importing this and then wanting to strangle us when the obviously adhoc tree ends up rebased.
BenBE: asciilifeform: 1) No, can use it without (just need to do stuff on the command line then) 2) not a feature you need to use. There's a CLI clint you can audit and use.
mircea_popescu: BenBE the problem is that others may attempt to use it and involve you thereby. which is also the whole of their business plan, i'm sure you realise. anyway, the whole thing's moot : proper wot exists, we're using it, the soup can go hang.
BenBE: Suggstiong: you have all the keys available that make up those dumps. What about using a batch job (once per day) creating a large .pgp file people can download. That's both static and gives people all the information (create UIDs for the extra stuff if necessary)
mircea_popescu: BenBE trouble is we're moving away from the inept koch standard.
mircea_popescu: tbh i'm not sure what fellow's trying to do, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: for a moment there it read as "i don't like $newguy, he might do something stupid." which is silly, let him do the stupid first, not like him after. wtf preemptive dislike.
BenBE: It is when you can't handle the vast amount of data it involves (and yes, I know that vast is an understatement here). Alone building a database to manage all the raw data for my KeyInfoDB/Kompromat project is ~500GB (compressed) keys. Automating stuff for grabbing these at their source for import is a chalenge of its own.
BenBE: But getting everything into place helps alot figuring out how to best optimise your DB, how to perform imports, and so on.
BenBE: Can't claim I didn't learn anything while preparing to setup my project.
BenBE: Hard to parse, the RFC is somewhat strange, and possibly other things.
BenBE: At least those were the aspects I mostly disliked about it. What were yours?
mircea_popescu: but to be perfectly clear : rfc 4880 is not technically weak. it is politically subverside, and deliberately so. it consists of the same material that has schneider running around trying to convince people turning their computer in for an ipad is "the way to bright future of socialism", or of the uk cocksuckers that covered up rotherham droning on as to how they have to have everyone's keys to "catch criminals".
Framedragger: (well it's also technically weak by using a 160 bit hash, etc) :p
BenBE: OT: I know the guy who recently broke the GnuPG PRNG. He has been working on a project with me for some time
BenBE: Depending on the circles you worked in, you knew GnuPG is broken on several levels.
☟︎ BenBE: I asked W.Koch about the PRNG about 2 years prior to the break last year. And even then it had been know for years before that, that the PRNG is phishy but nobody cared to actually step forward and rip it open.
mircea_popescu: BenBE do you also know the FUCKGOATS, so as not to ever again use a "prng" for as long as you live ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: BenBE yes, but here's the extra step : not only do i know koch is an evil shithead who dedicates his time doing evil. i also say it.
BenBE: Didn't know that particular project, but have a true RNG based on the WhirlyGig design at warmcat
BenBE: mircea_popescu: I think there's a difference between suspecting someone of malice and proving it. Cf. Occam's razor.
BenBE: I am vary of things he does, will also tell others to do the same, but absent of proof I can't reasonably call him malicious.
mircea_popescu: i needn't prove it. he doesn't want to be ~guilty~ he keeps out of doing bad things. that simple.
BenBE: What's the entropy source used in those Cardano RNG?
BenBE: With the WhirlyGig it's temperature-based modulation of ring oscillators.
☟︎ BenBE: Both are viable choices.
mircea_popescu: can't say i have any experience with said modulation. what are the ring oscillators built out of ?
BenBE: In the FPGA versions they are built of unclocked rings of logic gates (transistors). With the FPGA I use they oscillate at about 150-200MHz (if I read the information of the synth tool correct)
mircea_popescu: did you do a mapping of temperature -> entropy or anything like that ?
mircea_popescu: obvious example : does monotonous temperature variation result in more 1's ? something along the lines of "batch 1 we kept at 20, batch 2 we took from 0 to 40 over one hour, batch 3 we took from 40 to 0 over one hour. out of the 10gb worth of entropy recorded in that hour, batch 1 is 50-50 split, batch 2 is 75% 0s, batch 3 is 74% 1s.
BenBE: No, only did some tests with dieharder on its output (at 2Mbps) which score several less WEAK in the results.
mircea_popescu: BenBE FG scores perfection not before seen in ent/dieharder, not terribly sure how much that convinces me.
mircea_popescu: as per that ancient "pi digits are also random, especially if you don't know what pi is" lemma.
BenBE: Multiple rings (3 or 5, would have to lookup in the VHDL file) are XOR'd together when sampling. Thus not one oscillator, but the XOR of different onces.
mircea_popescu: so you are trusting xilinx to actually do what it says ? and this with code that you can't audit ?
BenBE: Trusting trust. Yes.
mircea_popescu: well, we don't trust xilinx for critical infreastructure for the ~same reason we don'tr trust windows.
BenBE: And I did not say I'd fully trust it --- far too little actual audit work done.
mircea_popescu: i don't know how you can audit a xilinx chip. but if you did, asciilifeform would definitely be interested in hearing.
mircea_popescu: last i heard he had enough of licking acids under the microscope.
BenBE: Any other FPGA should basically do: Original design was a CPLD. So you'd grab one FPGA you /can/ audit the toolchain for and compile the design for that FPGA. It's not too much code.
BenBE: Nope. I wish I could.
BenBE: It's a sad state related to hardware that we have.
mircea_popescu: FG is, importantly, an ~auditable~ rng. you can audit the thing, and if you do, i'd be very interested to hear the results.
mircea_popescu: BenBE well, while the state of hardware generally is very poor, due to tmsr dilligence this particular corner is actually solved, and so no, wrt rngs the state is fine.
BenBE: In the way you rate this part solved. I'm not quite convinced here yet. Will need to evaluate the information.
BenBE: But that's nothing left for today.
mircea_popescu: yeah. put that evaluation in the stack though, i wanna hear what comes of it.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-09 01:20 asciilifeform: the chore that everybody here has been putting off into indefinite future - that of ~actually distributing one's entire modulus~ - is a necessary thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:42 BenBE: Depending on the circles you worked in, you knew GnuPG is broken on several levels.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 15:06 BenBE: With the WhirlyGig it's temperature-based modulation of ring oscillators.
mircea_popescu: but didn't discuss it, and therefore i've not what to link.
mircea_popescu: no, i'm aware what the problems are. just, absent a written form, im stuck going through the matter question&answer style.
a111: Logged on 2015-01-15 00:45 asciilifeform: (what rng? ring oscillator jitter, with sha1 whitening.)
Framedragger: i'm just teasing; i will consider setting up a topics-index page; something which is less formal than tickets; and a way to easily add new items by citing log line ranges. (old idea i know)
Framedragger: (as the corpus of text expands, it becomes something like a fractal derrida and is heavier to manage in mind, at least in my mind)
BingoBoingo: AHA, "Al-Anon" is people not usually alcoholic themselves trying to live with drunks
BingoBoingo: Yeah, founded by Bill W's wife to cope with "He stopped drinking, why am I still not the center of his universe"
shinohai: Because he got sober and realized what he had done!
trinque: ^ PSA: I'm looking at some kind of trb wallet bug which is reporting suffient balance, but insufficient when trying to send a tx
trinque: current bundle of deeds is blocked on that while I investigate
mircea_popescu: i have a good idea what you're running into : your balance is made up of "dust". can't send it.
trinque: looks like trb was not pleased with python's json.dumps() taking upon itself to use scientific notation after I changed fee and deed amounts.
trinque: txns are always deed amount + fee + refund rest back to same addy
trinque: should have the thing working again later today, and will back up current wallet for inspection
mircea_popescu: yes trinque ; but if a transaction is under arbitrary amount, it is arbitrarily "Dust" and can not be spent.
trinque: ah yes totally relevant then
trinque: I reduced the deed amount to make room for moar fee
trinque: that this is reported as "insufficient funds"... mkaaay
mircea_popescu: this might even fix it, but it's not certain, given the festival of adhoc magic numbers trb is also known as.
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 1222.8, Best ask: 1224.4, Bid-ask spread: 1.60000, Last trade: 1223.6, 24 hour volume: 15946.33337183, 24 hour low: 1177.2, 24 hour high: 1226.9, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: trinque incidentally the best solution probably is to do a sweep tx now and again (once a year or such ?) to aggregate all the inputs into one single output
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 02:53 asciilifeform: it ain't new, it is copy of 'athena' ( the thing found on old suns, that made their ui eye-clawing fugly and painful to navigate )
a111: Logged on 2017-04-08 21:20 phf: well, that's the thing, the original backend from clim2 goes all the way back to genera, and it's literally all solid 1-pixel lines, and bulk of the display is text.
phf: no, obviously not, that's mcclim
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 16:04 phf: i met fare at one of international lisp conference's and i thought he was kind of off, but the kind of work he did on asdf3 precisely corresponds to his personal and writing styles. sort of like a dirty kid that you have to constantly remind to like fucking go wash yourself dude, omg
phf: mcclim always reminds me of how rms was planning on competing with symbolics by reimplementing everything they had on top of gnu platform. that was the goal. only a handful people who actually worked with a genera realize how "special" the result of rms's work was.
☟︎☟︎ phf: mcclim's grey athena widget is from-cave attempt at "industry standard" echo of an echo
shinohai: ty pete_dushenski - cheers! o/
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: why exactly did everyone in the golden lisp era feel such a burning need to compete with each other anyway ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i mean rms, i understand, stray dog mit took in, he'd bark at st peter if st peter came by. but the rest of 'em ?
mircea_popescu: "The attacker was able to turn the sirens back on 15 times in a 90 minute period" lmao
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the "oh, must be local" rationale besides "we are retarded and so therefore things follow"
shinohai: I assume, since they contacted FCC, the system operates on some sort of radio frequency. Officials are "tight-lipped" lol
mircea_popescu: "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by combined Italian and Jewish police violence." << epic.
mircea_popescu: shinohai is "tight-lipped" how you say "box of hammers" this millennium ?
shinohai: Gotta learn that variety speak!
shinohai: Would be lulzy if it was the same guy who fucked with all their traffic lights last year.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 21:17 mircea_popescu: why exactly did everyone in the golden lisp era feel such a burning need to compete with each other anyway ?
mircea_popescu: yes, though i'm not particularily interested in stallman's moth-eaten brain.
mircea_popescu: there were what, 5 different wanna-be symbolix corps ? commercial lisps ? etc.
mircea_popescu: seems a lot of retarded one-man-ism that gave the world 5k "airplane inventors" and just as many canvas-made planes that didn't work worth a shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the question of "why the fuck would anyone even bother with a mit '''license''' we'll leave for some other time".
mircea_popescu: mit never had a thousand man-years of work, in its entire history to date, counting all the departments.
mircea_popescu: right. and if it were an actual man-year of work it'd be a wonder.
mircea_popescu: ie, a dozen people "worked" in the us sense for 18 months.
mircea_popescu: this argument will not prevail, because again, mit never paid that many hours.
mircea_popescu: and the problem of "slaves" and "work" is very interestingly repeating. so : if you count all the receptionists in the "work" you're getting an obviously diluted figure. if this is were how work worked, i could build spaceship by hiring 1mn chickens/hair stylists in argentina. evidently, argentina isn't building any spaceships.
mircea_popescu: slaves, idem. if you couint every nigger at mit, derping about "we're one, man" and "i should have money anyway" then yes you get the figures, but if you count THAT as slavery god help youi.
mircea_popescu: dozen people eighteen months. thatssit. where's the 500 undergrads ~actually~ working for decades ?
mircea_popescu: you seen the premises ? not physically possible to host 100 people working there, let alone 500 wtf.
phf: asciilifeform: clim fwiw predates micro exodus. was, like common lisp, an attempt by the three vendors to make a unified gui foundation. you can still see scarring in genera where they started transitioning to clim apps from their flavors
mircea_popescu: NOW -- the question is why did this fucktarded dozen decide the best thing to do is make 3-6-howevermany "Competing" entitite.s
☟︎ phf: actually that's the same (i assume rhetorical) question rms was asking
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (strangely, even though ti was a megacorp already at the time, their offering was the least memorable) << No mystery. They were likely operating from an internal assumption of leadership and thus snore.
mircea_popescu: mno. his question was "why do these 12 people not see the glory of socialism and dedicate their lives to making every receptionist live in luxury she can't pay for"
mircea_popescu: why such rotten bullshit would get a flat no in return is directly obvious.
phf: hmm, i always thought his question was a lot more naively childish "why'd did all my friends i had fun with left to do these weird `grownup` things"
mircea_popescu: the notion that there can be an apolitical something is like the notion that there can be a transparent non menstruating woman etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect rms did no such thing ; but that he correctly believed that if structured as ~radical~ socialism, socialism may be made to appear palatable to intelligent people ; at any rate more so than the commodified variant.
mircea_popescu: hence all his imbecillities with "log scale for music payments by downloads" and whatnot other respectable sovietisms.
mircea_popescu: she's still a woman even at a time prior to having foaled.
mircea_popescu: i also do not think one can become a socialist. they're all born this way. it's braindamage, basically.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by combined Italian and Jewish police violence." << epic. << Updated, forgot to insert relevant link to earlier qntra <mircea_popescu> "celebrating "Palm Sunday", a feast marking their holy tradesman's triumphant return to Jerusalem days before the holy tradesman was martyred by co
BingoBoingo: mbined Italian and Jewish police violence." << epic.
mircea_popescu: all kids appear healthy, but the brains of a precious few are deffective, and as aging exposes them to the challenge of correct diversification, it turns out they ~were all along~ schizophrenic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i currently find the notion persuasive. jane and jennifer are both interchangeable as 3 yos, but as they progress to age 23 it becomes apparent jeniffer jsut never had the tits in her.
mircea_popescu: because if i make them strip, jane's DD look better than jen's A-
mircea_popescu: (ie, little jane stuck too early with too much male attention she doesn't know how to handle (in no small part because her mom's a retarded jen and had not the sense ot have sisters etc) will grow defensive. but it's to my eyes rather a different strand. quite evidently so : she's immodest in private.)
mircea_popescu: anyway, to take the thing back to rms and friends : socialism is not a political choice, it's a psychological defense. it expresses itself in fundamentally defective individuals. tis what it is.
mircea_popescu: now, obviously other than the people who ~are made of~ shit, you can also have people covered in shit. these, however, can wash. even if they're not necessarily distinguishable on superficial examination -- put the firehose on them and you'll presently find out.
mircea_popescu: which'd be ~why~ specific republican artefacts (above approximated as firehose) result in the "educational split" so to speak.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The usual solution among people who get paid to do that work is smaller chainsaw plus climbing
mircea_popescu: but more appropriately i think you could say "cowardice expresses itself in fundamentally defective individuals, as well as in those who spend too much time in cowards' company".
BingoBoingo: If there is problem it could be you need to adjust chain tension again after saw warms up
BingoBoingo: Chainsaws usually come with scwrench for a reason
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Another solution may be to inquire at power equipment rental outfit and find setup from one of the orange brands (echo, stihl) to use for a day or two until branches restored to sanity.
BingoBoingo: Well, that is an option to deal with branches at height.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform socialism is the proposal that the problems of individuals will be addressed by the group. the spartans made no allowance for the problems of individuals.
BingoBoingo: "Arborist" above 8 feet would usually either come with bucket lift truck or climbing gear and small (10-14 inch bar) saw.
mircea_popescu: they were interested in resolving the problems of the group, mostly in the shape of not getting wiped by the parthians.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, thinking about it, it'd seem to me the only possible explanation of
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641002 is that the golden dozen lacked ~any conception whatsoever~ of the enmity of mit. like dodo birds, went happily to the necessary eventual slaugther because failed ot perceive usg must be destroyed not ignored. in a field arbitrarily (and perhaps not exactly accidentally) limited in this manner, they cultiv
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 22:04 mircea_popescu: NOW -- the question is why did this fucktarded dozen decide the best thing to do is make 3-6-howevermany "Competing" entitite.s
mircea_popescu: ated their own aesthetic notions of "competition" among themselves, instead of setting boston on fire.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but you couldn't find petition introduced by hoplite because "life's too hard and i want an ipad".
mircea_popescu: how the fuck they managed to think mit is anything but ~the only thing they must destroy~ is beyond me however. seriously, how the fuck does that work.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin-assets split sold with the rest. why didn't moon's corp ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. why didn't everyone follow ? moon was eminently followable.
mircea_popescu: so your proposition is that engineers are cursed by the gods in that they can't follow each other, gotta follow a different kinda guy and if they don't get lucky to find one will just symbolics all over the place ?
mircea_popescu: amusingly, apparently everyone there knew this, too. "he's no captain, he's just a dude with a small penis who figures the world owns him reparations for it, so captaining will work by itself"
mircea_popescu: but anyway, leaving this hot coal for a moment -- why the everloving fuck did it take them so long to lose virginity! yes, EVENTUALLY moon "finally we take this tech private". but how fucking unobvious can it be that mit is exactly the equivalent of hymen, there to insulate girl from control of her own cunt ?
mircea_popescu: ~any 16 yo figures out her chief order of business is trashing the damend thing, why's it take moon 50 years ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun think teh theory ever went in the vein of "ubermenschen (exact clones of mircea_popescu , presumably ) and untermenschen ('socialists' or anyone who substantially differs psychologically from mircea_popescu )" eh ?
mircea_popescu: what next, i can't justify my saturday night guest list ~matrimonially~ ?
mircea_popescu: golden age of bitcoin forum invesmtnets, dude did horribly poorly ~on investor's money~.
mircea_popescu: how did the investment come considewring there wasn't anythning there besides "we'll try to win on execution without a clue or a GED, against people with money and significant entrenchment" ?
mircea_popescu: fuck, HOW is airbnb supposed to be worth 50 bux ? it consists of... nothing.
mircea_popescu: groupon, its exact clone 5 years ago, meanwhile imploded. where did the billions come to make ~that~ particular iteration of nothing whatsoever into "biggest ipo ever!11"
mircea_popescu: investment is entirely divorced from this "justifying commercially" business.
mircea_popescu: this is not exactly correct, which is why i linked the article i linked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought symbolics was mostly hand made originally.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see ? where did THE INVESTMENT!111 come from!
mircea_popescu: market is not weighing machine to start with. it gets there, but it starts as something else. derping about "justifying commercially" is the EXACT equivalent of not talking to girl for nerd reasons.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 22:37 mircea_popescu: ~any 16 yo figures out her chief order of business is trashing the damend thing, why's it take moon 50 years ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i think people in question weren't even thinking in terms asciilifeform is using. they are all deep academia, without external guiding force thye end up recreating windows interface 10 years too late.
mircea_popescu: 1. a dozen mentally retarded girls were afraid of their own cunts ; 2. so much so as to need to be 50 before they'd finally deflower ; 3. except they did it in such a manner as to replace the insulatory function of that with various other ersatz-hymens created out of material collected in the environment ; 4 but because they were mentally retarded no possiblity of meaningful communication was open to them and so 5. therefore
mircea_popescu: they all ended up with random substitute hymens and that's the last time anyone heard of any of them.
mircea_popescu: im not sure that's even discussed, here. what theorems are involved in handmaking symbolics gear
phf: pre-symbolics the "theorems" were "how do i computer" in general. those guys weren't playing around with custom fpga in their garage that they failed to sell. they were basically figuring out how to build a von neumann machine that can do things, which they did
mircea_popescu: anyway, in the above retelling, the 4->5 transition is the coup the grace. they couldn't "follow" each other ~because~, in this view, they were bereft of sufficient bandwith to in any sense communicate. so they couldn't, like, end up with all the same one substitute cuntcap.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf this part is fine. now, why did they fail to a) band togetgher and b) control, deliberately, the product.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the only reason mit even exists in this picture is because the dozen was "omfg, we DID figure it out, now quick, find someone TO PROTECT US FROM OUR HAVING FIGURED IT OUT!!1"
phf: jealous wizards, i thought that was an archetype.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the rest just happened to fall into s or lmi randomly as the wind blew ?
mircea_popescu: this equality doesn't hold. it's not a matter "we don't know". we know what the environment constraints are, and we do not care what their internal processing is. if they fail to act rationally they did it randomly.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, leaving this hot coal for a while also, consider THE FUCKING INDIGNITY. you're telling me the dozen was split up by a convenient application of... a socialist marote ? same thing sunk lisp as the international ?!
mircea_popescu: it's on the level of "great monk died - syphilis". come da fuck on. have better problems!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the circumstance ? this isn't a given iyo ?
mircea_popescu: the time for "debates" is when you're installed in power and are preparing to withdraw the power from the plebs. you create a trappings-of-power artefact through the magical working of dialectics, heap it upon them in exchange for the actual thing and move on. that's when you do "disputes".
mircea_popescu: when you're the only twelve guys on monkey island you don't fucking disagree. because there's nothing to disagree ~about~. because there can't be.
mircea_popescu: because monkeys. i dunno, seems likew i;'m repeating myself.
phf: asciilifeform: true king is a later invention, actual process is "choose king amongst yourself", and failure to do so is stupidity
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indulge me for a moment here. so, would you agree that a specific and specified problem (make a computer!) was actually resolved by a number of people ?
mircea_popescu: so you don't particularily want symbolix metal, it\s just some random thing.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to pick a door (for the needs of this conversation only)
mircea_popescu: look, there's no crevice here to slither into. either you grant "they did" or else you admit they didn't do anything. pick one.
mircea_popescu: aite, then i guess it can't epxlained what the people invovled were stupid for having not done.
mircea_popescu: you will note however that ~all communication~ rests on hallucination in the sense here contemplated. and we're right back to 4->5.
phf: there's only one computer asciilifeform acknowledges as "resolved", and that's the computer built by asciilifeform. i suspect similar dynamic was at the root of smbx/lmi
mircea_popescu: phf im starting to understand the problem though. here it is : engineer will not consider inconvenient problems. NO MATTER WHAT. that is why he's an engineer : because paradigm made him a personal promise.
mircea_popescu: im not capable nor interested in specifying. fact remains - a dozen dudes either did something ro didn't do something. if they did something we can discuss the history of the thing they did and what it says about them ; otherwise, we can not.
mircea_popescu: at the time they did this, the world split. there were the people who built the "something quite like a proper comp", on one side. there were the people who did not so build, on the other side. you see this ?
mircea_popescu: well, on top of a world ontologically constituted as "12 men on monkey island" attempting to construct alternate world hallucinatorily constituted as "men and money teams compete for island special olympics".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "who do you think will win, mr 13, the team with two guys and monkeys or the team with three guys and monkeys ?"
☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: "i think the whole charade is a sickening display, personally."
mircea_popescu: because yes the monkeys could win if not enough to eat, BUT you know this because there's 12 starved men.
mircea_popescu: but yes i'm aware not being stupid results in a deary lack of monkey island special olympics participation trophies.