log☇︎
600+ entries in 0.374s
asciilifeform: shinohai: didja see the deedbot www thing, where you have null strings for all yer outgoing ratings ? was this deliberate setting, or is trinque's mechanism buggy ?
asciilifeform: strings of any length you want ~defined apriori~ work under my constraint.
mircea_popescu: well yeah but then you must not permit long strings.
mircea_popescu: ok, let me rephrase : if program includes "long strings" then compiler turns stack into heap.
asciilifeform: returning strings of fixed apriori lenght, on other hand, does not.
mircea_popescu: but the model here discussed DOES permit very long strings.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: problem , if one want to call it one, is that the standard explicitly gives a knob for getting cmdline params, and that knob demands indeterminately-long strings (i.e. built on dualstackism) to work.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ada gives you ~this~ type of string 'for free' ( all ada strings contain their length )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-18 14:09 asciilifeform: phf: observe however that it is impossible to make use of your approach re cmdline args. the standard unambiguously mandates variably-lenghted strings ( i.e. dualstackism ) for that.
asciilifeform: phf: observe however that it is impossible to make use of your approach re cmdline args. the standard unambiguously mandates variably-lenghted strings ( i.e. dualstackism ) for that. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely my arbitrary call. i'll put whatever strings in there i put, and well... what can you do.
asciilifeform: and largely associated with spam in my head, being the only place i ever encountered said strings.
trinque: as I recall just walks the strings present in that position in the vpatches
mircea_popescu: i suppose one could just doctor the strings.
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 2 hours and 54 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> other interesting observations: 1) loader is not the same as what appears in the src, in either 3.3 or 3.4 fw bin; not only key differs, but eggog strings, and possibly the rsa per se. 2) seems like : nowhere else in the fw is there any other routine which checksums/rsaverifies the cr50 fw , or references the rsa keyz at all other than to print keyid .
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf other interesting observations: 1) loader is not the same as what appears in the src, in either 3.3 or 3.4 fw bin; not only key differs, but eggog strings, and possibly the rsa per se. 2) seems like : nowhere else in the fw is there any other routine which checksums/rsaverifies the cr50 fw , or references the rsa keyz at all other than to print keyid .
mircea_popescu: a) better be LOUD and b) if no strings snap you're doing it wrongly.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in wooden musical instruments with strings, https://78.media.tumblr.com/9d953edcfa63aef3f8f8a95d903e4000/tumblr_p4jw7uwJ2F1ty964ho1_400.gif
asciilifeform: trinque: the heathen item linked, has e.g. unbound strings, and related nopes
asciilifeform: and what's to stop you from diddling the strings in a http proxy. ( prolly easier, really, than making a 'greasemonkey' kludge for erry possible www browser )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, we're discussing the strings here.
oda: mircea_popescu: I got it working with the paste site in the deedbot help site. Also that tiuxo site is my site. Cloudflare filtering might have denied deedbot, I filter out China / Russia / Korea and a few useragent strings I was getting a lot of weird traffic from
asciilifeform: you can extract strings from it, and see which bob rev etc
asciilifeform: you will get a (very limited, pretty much all you can do is to read version strings and gpio voltages) command prompt
asciilifeform: in other noose, i found the vendor binary for my particular box's cr50 (all ver strings match) : https://gsdview.appspot.com/chromeos-localmirror/distfiles/cr50.r0.0.10.w0.3.0.tbz2
mircea_popescu: how did that go, "to obtain random strings on linux, give a windows person vim and ask them to exit"
trinque: "There's no supported way to directly pass lisp data to foreign functions: scalar lisp data must be coerced to an equivalent foreign representation, and lisp arrays (notably strings) must be copied to non-GCed memory." << right there in the https://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter13.2.html
asciilifeform: if has ftp -- greeting strings.
asciilifeform: whereas ~all~ humanreadable, within reason, strings that can be physically pulled from the scanned box, oughta be in there.
trinque: or use the python "Decimal" type, with strings passed to constructor
lobbes: But yeah, as it stands now all I got is 50gb of downloaded-from-archive.is sitting on a ssd and a search of the url strings only
trinque: considering that there may be other lisp programs that want to use this as a dependency, it'd be really nice if instead of returning nils, printing strings, you returned a list of vpatch objects.
mod6: And I'll certainly need to write something (or work with someone) to produce a ~fast~ parser. It's a giant ass-pain with the fixed-length strings.
phf: but you don't even have to jump through the hoops of escaping, most lisp's run program implementations, uiop including, support passing in command as a list of strings, which are in turn handled properly by the underlying machinery
mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe not the best word for it. but the idea is that the wotless individual finds himself very vulnerable strategically : the enemy doesn't need to make sense, just needs to make LONG enough strings of nonsense.
mircea_popescu: ah ah. so you're not actually running around like a singapore coolie, trying to come up with strings imaginary girls "said" and so on.
mircea_popescu: now here's a question on which i'd very much like to hear a lordship oppinion. so, the model currently contemplated for eulora includes a bit whereby the server has to be told by the client a magic string, and will report this back to the client on demand, "here's what you told me you are". the idea is that the client can then sha his binary, and see if the strings match.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, consider this place, chicks regularily come asking to write strings on their tits, and it's not even in california!
phf: sleepless mp nights of generating strings and paying bitcoins for the endless whorde of tits
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, i meant the physical fatbags, not the strings
phf: so cl-irc isn't "stripping away" faulty sequences, there's a state machine parser there that only accepts a valid irc protocol, likewise the renderer is not escaping html, instead the dom is constructed server side and where you have strings, you can only have strings. they will be serialized into html according to html escaping rules.
phf: i'll try my implementation against arbitrary binary data, because right now i'm still passing in C strings essentially. (i've discovered the null trim issue because one of the buffers ran short, and had stale data in it, so ada was getting a character, where null was expected, but the data itself didn't have anything umseemly about it)
asciilifeform: ada folx: re making ada strings out of the c variety : strlen(char *) is a potentially lethal op ( suppose the nullterminator is missing ) so it will never be called implicitly by ada. you gotta either call strlen deliberately on c side, and then form ( can be on stack , declare ... Foo : String(1 .. Length) ... , say, a la http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L53 ) a proper ada string and copy the cstring into it.
diana_coman: ave1, aha, byte by byte was what I ended up doing at testing stage just to see it really working; hopefully I'll still get it working properly with To_C as such and then I can still avoid the C.Strings, stick with the procs To_Ada and To_C; it's not going to be pretty but at least the mess is as small as I can see a way to do it now
diana_coman: ave1, tbh I've been trying to avoid .c.strings at least but atm it looks set to still make its way in because calling ada stuff from c and getting char * result is an even worse mess with interfaces.c only (i.e. with char_array vs chars_ptr)
ave1: the fun of C strings, I hope you can use the procedure versions of To_Ada and To_C.
ave1: diana_coman: will you be depending on interfaces.c or interfaces.c.strings packages (I'v done some initial work on modified versions of these that do not need a second stack)
mircea_popescu: (the obvious benefit for you is that eventually you'll be able to say "ledger only runs to the past x lines or y calls of ledger, whichever is longer. this may seem as "nothing" but mind the "unbounded strings" fallacy. everything has to have a length.)
mircea_popescu: try and understand that taking refuge in a string of nouns after having pointed out to you that most people will just discard out of hand strings of epithets as pure painstuitola isn't the best of strategies.
mircea_popescu: phf so what is the call on republican alphabetic order ? "all strings are made of bytes and the byte order is the alphabetic order" ?
mircea_popescu: opt out ofd the whole strings idiocy altogether
ben_vulpes: mod6: magic strings in the b64!
asciilifeform: strings strictly.
mircea_popescu: two bitwise-identical strings are not thereby the same thing.
asciilifeform: if 2 strings are bitwise-identical -- they are the same. if mircea_popescu in his own house insists that trained gurlz with magnifying glasses compare them, before he will consider them to be same, that is his biznis
mircea_popescu: "oh, we will look for the strings". which fucking strings ?
mircea_popescu: the interpretative theory (T) states that for all possible strings there is at most one M per present S. those which have exactly 1 for all S are called well formed ; the rest malformed.
asciilifeform: more or less all prog langs give a clean way to multilineize strings
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am not going to take responsibility for your not reading the connection routines. it's plain as day the thing expects magic strings.
phf: maybe he's talking about pascal strings, it's hard to say at this point
trinque: ah we're talking about linked-list strings then?
asciilifeform: and nulltermed strings etc
asciilifeform: incidentally http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752302 is worth expanding on : it is impossible to implement Ada.Command_Line sanely (i.e. without using secondary stack.) the reason is that argv is a potential 'infinity' -- it contains an uncapped number of c-strings of uncapped ( as are all c-strings ) length. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: o wow check it out, this was pretty advanced (class names randomgenerated strings to fool google etc)
phf: colorizer is missing ada support, so i'm slowly hacking in the highlighter http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb comments and strings so far. i'm going to add keywords now and then leave it be
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 01:48 asciilifeform: ( hey lamer, you wanted No_Secondary_Stack restriction ? fuck you, we used variable-length strings for the exception message passing. and 9,001 of similar item. )
mod6: b__main.adb:(.text.adainit+0xfd): undefined reference to `ada__strings_E' << this is sad, really.
asciilifeform: it aint just exceptions, either. gnat happily ignores the fact that strings package isn't used, and inserts a dependency on it for the linker to barf on. ditto tasks, and a dozen other.
asciilifeform: ( hey lamer, you wanted No_Secondary_Stack restriction ? fuck you, we used variable-length strings for the exception message passing. and 9,001 of similar item. ) ☟︎
spyked: nono, I look at Lisp symblol *names* and I think "strings", i.e. sequences of characters.
mircea_popescu: it might just be that you look at mccarthy's symbols and think "oh strings".
spyked: mircea_popescu, I understood that. the point is, McCarthy's Lisp system still uses strings internally in some form.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 19:38 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741179 << you can just ignore the whole "string" question in first version, McCarthy's lisp used symbols instead of strings (that's why early nlp code, like eliza all come out as DOG SAID, HELLO) and the only operation you could do at some point was read and eq.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741759 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1741862 <-- string not a primitive, but -- "string" datatype aside -- symbol names are (conceptually) strings, so they (the symbol names) require an internal representation etc. cons'ing characters upon reading was simplest approach I found to storing and structuring them. con: list cells introduce memory overhead; pros: avoids arrays and magic numbers like ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 19:38 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741179 << you can just ignore the whole "string" question in first version, McCarthy's lisp used symbols instead of strings (that's why early nlp code, like eliza all come out as DOG SAID, HELLO) and the only operation you could do at some point was read and eq.
phf: strings as lists of character is a schemist wankery anyway along the "our cpu uses church numerals!1"
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 12:21 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737956 <-- but lists are sequences too, and strings can be represented as lists. this becomes problematic when O(1) random accesses are needed. if/when that happens, I will have to implement arrays, but until then... strings are lists-of-characters.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741179 << you can just ignore the whole "string" question in first version, McCarthy's lisp used symbols instead of strings (that's why early nlp code, like eliza all come out as DOG SAID, HELLO) and the only operation you could do at some point was read and eq. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 19:03 jurov: a111: strings are sequences, not lists. cons/car/cdr does not apply, there's different set of functions for these
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737956 <-- but lists are sequences too, and strings can be represented as lists. this becomes problematic when O(1) random accesses are needed. if/when that happens, I will have to implement arrays, but until then... strings are lists-of-characters. ☝︎☟︎
spyked: safe array indexing), which brings asciilifeform's point re. bytecode further. in current item, builtins are hardcoded using strings, very not-elegant!
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 18:50 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level)
a111: Logged on 2016-02-25 17:12 phf: i've been mulling over that question with logs. fwiw, entire log can be kept in memory for analysis, annotation, whatever, 180mb as utf-8 byte arrays. with unicode strings takes up twice the memory on 16-bit cmucl, and ~~4 times on 32-bit sbcl. i'm not yet convinced that transcoding everything you get into string and then transcoding it back to a bytearray onto the wire is the best strategy
a111: Logged on 2017-11-15 11:34 diana_coman: I don't even know whether he tested it or how otherwise; also not sure if there isn't some way around using Strings.Unbounded
diana_coman: I don't even know whether he tested it or how otherwise; also not sure if there isn't some way around using Strings.Unbounded ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 18:50 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level)
jurov: a111: strings are sequences, not lists. cons/car/cdr does not apply, there's different set of functions for these ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:25 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737264 <-- strings are (lisp) lists-of-characters. which, as it is, unfortunately makes parsing and evaluating builtin functions (e.g. cons, car, cdr) a pain in the ass. can be structured cleanly though. also, this makes it not a simple matter of find+replace in shithub scheme.adb.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level) ☝︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: anyway original observation was re upper and lower cont. strings
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737266 <-- I did not contemplate bytecode representation, but this would indeed make matters simpler (including above problem of dealing with strings). ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 19:35 asciilifeform: phf: ideally i'd get rid of Ada.Strings , full stop
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737264 <-- strings are (lisp) lists-of-characters. which, as it is, unfortunately makes parsing and evaluating builtin functions (e.g. cons, car, cdr) a pain in the ass. can be structured cleanly though. also, this makes it not a simple matter of find+replace in shithub scheme.adb. ☝︎☟︎
phf: well, right. i'm not sure what ada.strings is (i.e. is it a protocol or concrete datatype), so i can't really comment further
asciilifeform: phf: ideally i'd get rid of Ada.Strings , full stop ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 18:13 asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want
asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want ☟︎
mircea_popescu: iirc there was an isprime implemented, now i'm curious re 13371337 and similarily appended-1337-strings whether prime or not
mircea_popescu: tbh, by comparison with the volume of spurious strings pasted into shitsites, the amount of idle for loops executed to date seems dismall. less reddit more foring.
mod6: Doing such, avoid use of the heap. And there is quite a bit of manipulation I have to do with the strings. So that adds some cost, because I'm basically doing the parsing on my own. I'm not using any weird 3rd party libs.