tmsr - Log 2017-11-29

asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: supposedly this is one of the items included in the 'pro' payware gnat. and they have made re-creating it as painful as they could.

asciilifeform: funnily enough adacore itself publishes a great many cut-down runtimes for various embedded boxes, e.g. https://bitbucket.org/tkoskine/embedded-arm-gnat-rts/src . BUT they are not usable: 1) there is -- quite deliberately -- not one targeting conventional userland linux 2) none of them support exception handling, which wouldn't be a problem except that ALL BOUNDS CHECKS ARE EXCEPTIONTRONIC ☟︎

asciilifeform: see , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741741 , but a RUNNABLE linked elf is multi-MB and full of turd and quite unauditable. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 18:36 asciilifeform: in other noose, ffa elf on x86-64 with no inlinings and stripped .a , is ~50kB

asciilifeform: the approach to making a rts ( gnatruntime ) from 0, depicted in e.g. https://github.com/alkhimey/Ada_Kernel_Module_Toolkit works -- but does not result in a ffa-usable rts , because the boundschecking exceptionhandlers are not present.

asciilifeform: so the next logical thing is, you go and find where yer gnat's a-except.adb/ads live, and try and backport'em, right ?

asciilifeform: but then welcome to an inner circle of hell, because it's a mass of ??? interdependently glued to itself with broken glass

asciilifeform: ( hey lamer, you wanted No_Secondary_Stack restriction ? fuck you, we used variable-length strings for the exception message passing. and 9,001 of similar item. ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: oh that ain't all

asciilifeform: bonus hell : if you want to build a rts, you gotta use "-gnatg" flag. or you get:

asciilifeform: 'user-defined descendants of package System are not allowed'

asciilifeform: and ditto package Ada ( exceptions ) and pretty much the rest of your rts

asciilifeform: now for the ultimate barf :

asciilifeform: the docs ( https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/building_executable_programs_with_gnat.html ) but gnu's agree give us:

asciilifeform: 'Internal GNAT implementation mode. This should not be used for applications programs, it is intended only for use by the compiler and its run-time library. For documentation, see the GNAT sources. Note that -gnatg implies -gnatw.ge and -gnatyg so that all standard warnings and all standard style options are turned on. All warnings and style messages are treated as errors.'

asciilifeform: this means 1) no docs. at. all

asciilifeform: 2) style fascism is turned on AND CANNOT BE TURNED OFF

asciilifeform: which means that none of my code even builds, because gnat then insists on adacore's idiotic massive-extra-spaces-everywhere stylistics.

asciilifeform: nope.

asciilifeform: they are part of they-don't-want-you-to-do-this.

asciilifeform: it's a sabotaged proggy.

asciilifeform: the tentative conclusion : asciilifeform is condemned to take ownership of gnat, and burn out the nonsense with hot irons.

asciilifeform: i'ma have to do it after ffa/p tho. but really this is ridiculous, the built binaries are not auditable until we extirpate the ball of nonsense.

asciilifeform: ffa.a stripped is 50kB; 'hello world' without anything whatsoever, null procedure, is 3.5MB

asciilifeform: ( stripped -- 1 or so )

asciilifeform: granted it's a standard lib, and contains various items like the ( spiffy, but i dun use it in p !!! ) threading system

ben_vulpes: unrelatedly asciilifeform i saw you mention 'goxlag' a few times recently, is bitfinex not releasing btc?

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: goxlag , recall, was ping delay

asciilifeform: whether or not the gox has transitioned to the next dwarf stage is immaterial

asciilifeform: anyway i'ma bbl.

asciilifeform: it aint just exceptions, either. gnat happily ignores the fact that strings package isn't used, and inserts a dependency on it for the linker to barf on. ditto tasks, and a dozen other.

asciilifeform: for n00bz : 'rts' in ada world is approx equiv of libc.

asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all

jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10133.47, vol: 12721.68555284 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10135.0, vol: 52631.12235665 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9984.0, vol: 2760.11355154 | Volume-weighted last average: 10128.5953221

asciilifeform: ding.

asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/dpo8I/?raw=true << sample rts eggogology , to round out the thread.

asciilifeform: ( and yes with a c 'main.c' , otherwise motherfucker dun even have any idea where .code seg starts )

mod6: b__main.adb:(.text.adainit+0xfd): undefined reference to `ada__strings_E' << this is sad, really.

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10365.97, vol: 13620.94227422 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10322.0, vol: 59759.57629282 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10270.0, vol: 3132.98027755 | Volume-weighted last average: 10327.6983129

asciilifeform: nao if it were to grow just oooone moar 0..!

BingoBoingo: Or till March, or whatever man. Great Again cannot Make Great in a single day.

asciilifeform: at current price , e.g., ro passport , costs ~75 btc.

BingoBoingo: What, there's no route for earnestly living there and waiting for that next zero in .ro ?

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: only if you have a mircea_popescu-strength meat otc wot

asciilifeform: as it is, asciilifeform couldn't even sell 1 btc in here in usgistan, even if wanted to. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: nor, for that matter, to buy.

asciilifeform: lol 10k promisetronium via usgmail from rando

asciilifeform: what could be better.

asciilifeform: usgmail has no mprating.

asciilifeform: irrelevant,

asciilifeform: for some they move rembrandts, for others , like yours truly, they confiscate $5 package of screws.

asciilifeform: known to whom ?

asciilifeform: not me.

asciilifeform: and dafuq do i need a suitcase of green for inside usaschwitz.

asciilifeform bbl,meat

mats: well, if you're looking to sell, the one guy can wire, ach, bank deposit, according to listing in order book ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743982 you know, "all is forgotten in 3 years", like the jews' ancient "7 year festival" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 23:30 BingoBoingo: What was that again? Shame, disappear for 3 years and slave away in the tit mines?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1743984 << what failed ? teh very detailed discussion of each of these 3, MEGA blog fodder. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 01:38 asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 01:48 asciilifeform: ( hey lamer, you wanted No_Secondary_Stack restriction ? fuck you, we used variable-length strings for the exception message passing. and 9,001 of similar item. )

a111: Logged on 2017-11-18 16:02 mircea_popescu: i would much prefer to have a v-root for whatever bios, with the binary clearly laid out, so people with the competence can take it apart.

jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10896.81, vol: 19640.93177920 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10900.0, vol: 85373.05648051 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10948.2, vol: 5084.46936032 | Volume-weighted last average: 10901.656852

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744071 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-14#1714372 and earlier still. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 07:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744011 << in fairness, it was only even said we might want to do this http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-18#1740281 ie two weeks ago.

a111: Logged on 2017-09-14 17:24 asciilifeform: ^ which does mean that i'ma have to a) audit the binary when ffa built for use in the field b) patch gcc/gnat not to emit DIV

asciilifeform: safety-critical coad gets binaudited, even in heathendom

asciilifeform: ( there is not , for perfectly fundamental reasons, a compiler that can be blindly trusted -- to work correctly, not even speaking of thompsonism here )

asciilifeform: ( see also: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-03#1636708 ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-04-03 22:14 asciilifeform: incidentally the folx who designed ada, read thompson's paper. and immediately acted. which is why in ada you get 'driving stick'-style control over the compiler, the order in which it puts down routines, and data structures during 'elaboration', and can leave bread crumbs for manual binary auditor (yes) to look for when he compares (yes) binaries built on different systems for same rocket.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744060 << lol mats why would i want it in a usg-transparent bank ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 05:27 mats: well, if you're looking to sell, the one guy can wire, ach, bank deposit, according to listing in order book

asciilifeform: the only thing asciilifeform would ever consider spending coinz on, is a perma-ticket out of the shitreich.

asciilifeform: i dun need a barrel of green for anything ( the only place i can spend it here, is the veggie market. and at airport they confiscate any over 10k . ) nor is depositolade in usgbank of any use, obummer immediately claims half

asciilifeform: pretty sure we had this thread.

asciilifeform: including the oblig 'hey, i get away with it' 'because you ain't under the microscope'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744066 << ~all the detail in yesterday's log. gnat inserts dependencies on the rts even when not only not used but pragma-restricted against e.g. secondarystack, elaboration, stringism, taskism ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 06:00 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1743984 << what failed ? teh very detailed discussion of each of these 3, MEGA blog fodder.

asciilifeform: there is a mode ( see also log ) where it doesn't insert anything, that is used traditionally to compile gnat itself. but there it hard-enforces adacore's weird style scheme, and cannot be forced not to. i'ma have to patch.

asciilifeform: q nao is which gnat to patch -- and take as a pet, and genesis etc

asciilifeform: ( i also haven't fully verified that the self-building mode is able to insert ~no~ spurious deps, in stock gnat )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744076 << curious - why ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 07:17 mircea_popescu: i just hope 100k doesn't happen before new year's.

asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all

jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10955.0, vol: 19967.78020329 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10914.0, vol: 84625.04203831 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10821.4, vol: 5405.81666339 | Volume-weighted last average: 10916.8918573

asciilifeform bbl,teatime

mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/liberals-what-liberals/#footnote_1_70002 << in which i discover idiocy even has a name. apparently it was CEDR, back in 2016!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oddly enough, pragma Restrictions(No_Wide_Characters) actually worx.

asciilifeform: a good chunk of'em -- work

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform could you just write emacs mode to fix the spacing/style ? possibly cheaper than sawing gnat apart.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looking into it.

asciilifeform: i suspect it's retarded in other ways tho, and will have to be cured in the end

asciilifeform: see, gotta get not only auditable, but romable p. 4MB ball of ??? ain't romable.

asciilifeform: ( dun think any of my opteron boxes know how to address >4MB of rom ~total~ , for instance. )

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in heathendom ! https://curl.haxx.se/docs/adv_2017-af0a.html >> 'libcurl contains an out boundary access flaw in SSL related code. When allocating memory for a connection (the internal struct called connectdata), a certain amount of memory is allocated at the end of the struct to be used for SSL related structs ... The math used to calculate the extra memory amount necessary for the SSL library was wrong on 32 bit systems,

asciilifeform: which made the allocated memory too small by 4 bytes. The last struct member of the last object within the memory area could then be outside... ' etc

asciilifeform: new one.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-16#1406884 << the prev ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-02-16 15:59 asciilifeform: 'The glibc DNS client side resolver is vulnerable to a stack-based buffer overflow when the getaddrinfo() library function is used. Software using this function may be exploited with attacker-controlled domain names, attacker-controlled DNS servers, or through a man-in-the-middle attack.'

asciilifeform: oh here http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697186 is the prev. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 20:20 asciilifeform: and not wholly unrelatedly, https://curl.haxx.se/docs/adv_20170809C.html << libcurl 0d

asciilifeform: quite similar.

asciilifeform: and i'ma save some wear on ye olde kbd, and leave a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697191 . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 20:25 asciilifeform: https://curl.haxx.se/changes.html#7_55_0 << holy SHIT that's a lengthy buglist for a proggy that... loads http and puts to stdout

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf do you happen to have a copy of bolix's adatron src ? dun look like it's on the classical disk set, at least not in src form.

asciilifeform: lol i half-expected the cufflinks to read 'btc'

asciilifeform: damn!

asciilifeform: lemme guess, at sea ?

mircea_popescu: also managed to misplace a 2ct diamond i used to wear in mah lapel... utter puyi operation i'm running over here. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: one could live comfortably out of all the hazard-for-6-yos items i lose apparently.

asciilifeform: and mouse could live for a century on the flakes of skin that fall of the elephant, why not.

asciilifeform: lol at least mircea_popescu had some cuffs for a spell. all i got for 5btc was losing to alphago and watching hitler cackle...

asciilifeform: it ain't like losing a bag of usd, or a diamond, not easy to forget.

asciilifeform: the loss grows 4evah.

mircea_popescu: all i got for 1k btc was averting this 2017 happening in 2014, let's call it.

asciilifeform: which 2017 ? hypothetical bubbleocalypse ?

mircea_popescu gets to forever recall how buffett was too scared to pick up glove, and cackle.

asciilifeform: i'm not equipped to say whether this is a problem

asciilifeform: ( potentially -- lethal, potentially -- uninteresting, i have nfi )

mircea_popescu: " Consider that the market is currently pricing Bitcoin over 10k as a 114.19/73.69 sort of proposition. That's right : the open market valuation of the notion that Bitcoin will go over 10`000 USD this year is not so much worse than even odds."

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform leaving reality aside, i can readily show in a snowglobe model how it's a problem. so, some indians (by which derrogatory term we denote genetically stunted, phenotypically inferior apes with some superficial semblance of humanity) had their "land" token inflated by events into great value cca 1600.

mircea_popescu: this trading as a bloc means, importantly, that the political and legal framework changes.

mircea_popescu: the "cypherpunks" or "internet experts" or whatever you call the genetically stunted, phenotypically inferior apes depicted eg in http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/ are not in any way different from those indians of yore.

mircea_popescu: in which sense, ethereum (not as the item, but as the prion set) is necessary for bitcoin to go into the millions. just a step on teh road.

asciilifeform: extension of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1699949 item ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-18 04:00 mircea_popescu: otherwise what, we'll be stuck in 2020 dealing with legacy yahoos ? noty.

asciilifeform: ignoring for a moment the folly of formulating btc-usd as a scalar ( picture if somebody were to show up with a million-btc buy or sell, say ) -- i have nfi what the actual, honest number is , nor any clue as to where such a thing might even be hidden

asciilifeform: yes a gox will give a plebe 10 ( 11? ) k if he comes in with 1. but beyond this.

mircea_popescu: let's just say that the principal military function of leadership is the management of the enemy perception of weakness.

asciilifeform: ( ignoring for a moment the fact that if shitreich subject walks in with 1 btc, they will give 5k usd to him and 5k to clitler )

asciilifeform: 'better to be rich and healthy, than poor and diseased' (tm)(r)

asciilifeform: lolwat?!

asciilifeform: prbism ?

asciilifeform: what means 'fork height' ? place of most recent reorg ?

asciilifeform: that dun tell me what it is

asciilifeform: ... looks liek exactly what i thought, most-recent-reorg

asciilifeform: shinohai: looks like it's simply the most recent reorg their box saw, neh ?

asciilifeform: ( getting this number from a trbtron is still a manual process. )

asciilifeform: fortunately if you have logging switched on, it's a straight grep

asciilifeform: oh try this unbelievable horror on for size : zoolag since http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1700485 is STILL syncing ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 00:13 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG panzers!! trb node 'zoolag' is back in business, this time as ordinary linux box -- syncing from 0 . same ip as prev.

asciilifeform: this is a ssd box, on very reasonable fiber, no less.

asciilifeform: 461874 currently.

asciilifeform: the sync mechanism is retarded beyond belief ( see l0gz )

asciilifeform: !#s rain mouth

asciilifeform: as it is, that thing spends 99% of cpu filling up disk with the familiar ERROR: ConnectInputs() : d84dc3e02d mapTransactions prev not found f74a08a53a

asciilifeform: ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed d84dc3e02d etc.

asciilifeform: 14+ weeks !!

asciilifeform: spends most of its time not having any notion that the next block exists.

asciilifeform: ( granted i could've filled it up with eatblock in <2days. but it's been some years since i synced 'from wild' and thought 'why not test..' )

asciilifeform: mod6: when was yours born ?

asciilifeform: gotta supply both numerator and denominator, mod6

asciilifeform: otherwise what do we have.

asciilifeform: notbad

diana_coman: hm, here I have one at 429437, started on 4th October; kind of got almost full data day by day, lol

asciilifeform: all trb boxen where log wasn't cut off, have day-by-day, neh

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> this is a ssd box, on very reasonable fiber, no less. << I am very glad/sad that asciilifeform's sync from wild experiments are concordant with my own ☟︎

BingoBoingo: And in other news, Conde Naste has decidedly quit the jet set: " Holiday gift guide 2017 — The 2017 Ars Technica gadget gift guide: On-the-go and travel tech edition We reflected on a year of testing to find the best tech for your next road trip."

asciilifeform: who are any of these

asciilifeform: ( srs q. i have nfi nor have any notion of why i should )

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They are emoticons of USian attempt at having a cultured. Matt Lauer is NBC's younger man hosting morning news show for older women.

ben_vulpes: keillor was a liberal entertainment darling, right up there with ira glass for trophy of most inoffensive and least entertaining person that Everyone Agrees Is Just Amazing

ben_vulpes: and the truuuuuly hilarious thing is that howard stern has yet to fall to the #metoo crowd (possibly won't?), which just goes to show that there is zero strength in the defense of being nice and appeasing the everyone.

asciilifeform: wtf is '#metoo'

BingoBoingo: Matt Lauer, was her demoocracy's bitch boy comforting the old biddies and making them feel relevant

asciilifeform: and do i even want to find out

asciilifeform: mega-summary

ben_vulpes: "sekuhara" being the noise little japanese girls emitted in storms of arousal when i played in japan as a youf

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mp's fdr is prominently missing

asciilifeform: ( grrr, where is the link! it's a jpeg, on trilema somewhere ! )

asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel

asciilifeform: wassat

a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 12:58 mircea_popescu: and speaking of which, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743518 prolly needs to be addressed better than the original "i wouldn't give a shit" : i'm ready to take over the governance of the entire world from the hands of the inept pretenders of today, as of yesterday. the result would be very ~different~, yes, but that's irrelevant.

asciilifeform: hey gabriel_laddel is that yours ?

asciilifeform: 'Antecedent companies are iRobot (ie roomba. founded 1990, IPO $100MN in 2005 at 24/share), Neato (raised 45MN, 2005, acquired by 'Vorwork', a German household appliances firm this Sept. Fiscal details unavailable). Both ventures attempted an 'AI' ...' << what means 'antecedent ventures' ?

asciilifeform: and i must disagree, 'neato''s vacuum cleaner worx pretty great.

asciilifeform: i have several, in various places

asciilifeform: ( will gripe, but not about the firmware -- the roller bearing overheats )

asciilifeform: how does a cad proggy compete with vaccuum co tho

asciilifeform: i dun get it

asciilifeform: also can see this cad ? or hypothetical yet

gabriel_laddel: totally hypothetical, I'm just sticking this on the end of "gimme job plz" emails along with some connective tissue

asciilifeform: btw gabriel_laddel there is a massive unfilled hole in cad-dom ,

asciilifeform: !#s from:asciilifeform eagle

asciilifeform: !#s from:asciilifeform pcb cad

asciilifeform: ^ there does not currently exist a decent pcb cad. at. all. ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: afaict, the lack of a CAD program to input the clean routines is the only reason I get interrupted by cleaners in whatever lounge I happen to be working in

asciilifeform: there's an ancient and now-unsupported closed warez turd. and a buncha open sores that dun work ~at all. ( on linux, i dun give a fuck what exists for microshit )

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: 'neato' vacuum doesn't do the random walk thing, it laser-scans the surrounding room (1d) and does edges, then colours 'in' the insides. pretty predictable.

asciilifeform: ( even the places where it will get stuck, are quite predictable. one sticks magnetic rubber to the floor, it has reed switch and avoids )

asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel

asciilifeform: did it run over yer ethernet cord

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: see also, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-01#939225 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2014-12-01 02:29 asciilifeform experimented with dvorak a few times over the years, found that he doesn't enter enough human language text to make the effort worthwhile

trinque: what's the point of putting a company pitch in a cover letter for another job? ☟︎

asciilifeform: not sure when i last did something where kbd speed was remotely the bottleneck.

asciilifeform: trinque: possibly this is the culture in his monkeystan, it sounds familiar

asciilifeform: 'list yer failed companies'

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 18:29 asciilifeform: ^ there does not currently exist a decent pcb cad. at. all.

trinque: doesn't matter; your behavior is wrapped around it. probably one of those kids given speed pills instead of parenting.

gabriel_laddel: but beyond that, I was applying to accelerators with this company because I don't want a real job

ben_vulpes: dude the best thing you could be doing right now is living out of a shoebox and extracting as many dollars from the sv machine to turn into btc as you possibly can.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sounds like what he already does neh

asciilifeform: waiwat inversion

gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes yeah -- when suddenly the _general public_ (ie gov/cia/fbi pensioners) realizes they need to hold btc and come to beat it out of whoever

asciilifeform: trinque: also thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575702 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:19 asciilifeform: but quite destructive to folx who are doing equivalent of ~planning~ the march

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: elaborate re 'ugly period'

asciilifeform: and re how 'gov pensioner' is to hold btc ( not to be confused with 'gox holds btc for idjit pensioners' which afaik already happens today )

trinque: this whole thing is the tweaker's "am fine, everything's fine" loop. only reason he comes by

asciilifeform: nah let's here

asciilifeform: *hear

gabriel_laddel: trinque 1. get a job at startup without having graduated from anything ever, with no network (CHECKMARK)

ben_vulpes: all i see is the same old same fuckin old excuses for not having the readies and willingness to do what it takes to operate a full node

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: who do you suppose will come to beat you for btc ? and why , e.g., BingoBoingo , ben_vulpes , asciilifeform , trinque , not yet beaten

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform because the coke-selling part of the CIA has not yet wanted to own btc

asciilifeform: beaten for usd ? check, every 2 wks, every time i get a cheque lol

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: why would you suppose it not yet ?

asciilifeform: if you have a good proper coke biznis why wouldja walk around shaking down plebes for lunch money.

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform gut instinct + talking to people out here + overhead conversations

trinque: if he spent any time stabilizing his life, he wouldn't have the urgency that excuses the drug habits

ben_vulpes: b-but building a fortress and carving a domain of sovereignty out is antithetical to the digital nomad ideal, trinque !

asciilifeform: trinque: erudite madness is educational.

gabriel_laddel: where was the thread where MP notes the only stable life is in ransacking other's castles...

asciilifeform: 'stable' is a mirage, everybody dies of sumpthin.

asciilifeform: i'd like to hear where gabriel_laddel intends to put the castle

gabriel_laddel: I specifically have no intent to hold btc until after some people get murdered for it

gabriel_laddel: "yer not a man then!" OK ya, am total wage slave / bitch to someone willing to kill for it. fine by me

asciilifeform: from what does gabriel_laddel conclude that no one's been murdered quite yet ?

asciilifeform: e.g. that chick who was thrown from 14th floor in singapore , when was it, 3y ago

asciilifeform: ran a gox, wouldn't play ball, etc

asciilifeform: or the 'dpr' d00d, who may as well be dead for all i know

asciilifeform: possibly gets flayed and regrown every week, like prometheus and his eagles, and spitting out privkeyz a bit in a month at a time

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform anyway I respond it'll boil down to "gut instinct". And that's fine, because we've all got different T levels, peni lengths, brain structures, heights and this determines what you're up for / can do.

asciilifeform: no q was re specifically how gabriel_laddel pictures 'axe time, sword time'

asciilifeform: i'm a connoisseur meself, would like to hear his ver.

gabriel_laddel: Oh I think I'll hear fear / desperation in the voice of one of these government people while getting a coffee.

BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque have not used in ~week << AHA, the extended phase of withdrawal!

asciilifeform: let's rewind a bit back to the last reich -- picture 'i dun wanna hold any diamonds, gold, until the nazis go away'

asciilifeform: 'what if gestapo gets hold of me'

asciilifeform: the diamonds might not help, but how do they hurt.

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform palintir is right around corner from me. if I hear them discussing how to track down someone from btc addy over lunch == axe time sword time

asciilifeform: let's expand on this

asciilifeform: picture yerself as the fuhrer. how would you go about 'track down someone from btc addy' ?

BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> but beyond that, I was applying to accelerators with this company because I don't want a real job << Sometime at a "real job" would be good for you. Work at BingoBoingo store, call it "field research" if that makes Brian in the head feel better. Show up, bust your ass, eat shit, THEN ask yourself "Why wasn't I working this hard for myself before?" ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: yo it'll sound like a bunch of excited / nervous engineering types discussing IP addresses, fake names & locations over lunch

BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> BingoBoingo meth has no withdraw << It has a withdrawl syndrome. Not at all like opiates or alcohol. More subtle, treacherous thing.

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: no but let's work this out. gabriel_laddel generates an addr. pgps it to e.g. asciilifeform . who sends to it a coin. how does hitler find that 1) addr belongs to gabriel_laddel 2) where to find and rectothermally rebuke gabriel_laddel

gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo do tell since clearly you know more about clean mexican meth than I do.

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: better how ?

asciilifeform: now i'm curious

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform regarding addy: you're looking at this the wrong way -- people with shit security ALREADY hold btc. And tracking me down is easy. Can come find me anyday in PA.

BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: When one takes ANY stimulant catecholamine drug, neurons start growing more receptors to handle the extra shit sticking around then (aka receptor upregulation, this provides tolerance). When you cease the stims, it takes substantial time for the receptors to downregulate again.

asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel

asciilifeform: i betcha the d00d know what he got into.

BingoBoingo: In the severly afflicted like little miss trainwreck it proves rather debilitating

asciilifeform: as i understand gabriel_laddel has 3-5 yrs to live, if typical dose.

gabriel_laddel: What, pray tell, did she take, and for how long, and how clean, and by what ROA?

asciilifeform: ought to make good use of it.

trinque: eh when the shadow people show up, gabriel_laddel can give them jobs in his startup

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Well, yes. This is what much of my extended meatwot network has become. People who stopped drink/dope and are at various rebuilding stages

BingoBoingo: But yes, most people when drinking and drugging at problem level don't cleanly separate drink and drug

ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: i did not know that the networks cross-pollinated but it makes a great deal of sense

BingoBoingo has only met one "clean productivity mether" who tried the recovery thing. Bounced in/out and then allegedly a heated argument did in his cardiovascular system ☟︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what was 'clean productivity', gotta wonder

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Well, opiate crisis. AA and NA offer same problem s/alcoholism/addiction

asciilifeform: patron saint of intellectual dopers, paul erdos , took such small doses that a typical american would not even feel

asciilifeform: ( i.e. milligrams )

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform d-amph is better in that it far less physical, doesn't cause oxidative stress, isn't as much of a "scheming" high and won't make you tweak to the point of tripping face.

asciilifeform: hm looks like i am unequipped to process gabriel_laddel's summary

asciilifeform: not knowing what is a 'scheming high' or 'tripping face'

asciilifeform: or for this matter 'to tweak'

asciilifeform: do i need to do some time in a dope den , to learn this ?

asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-24#1742899 for instance ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: i;ma guess it's an unwanted effect ?

gabriel_laddel: Nono, just different. Fuck can't find the link -- but anyways, I had the idea that it'd be easier to hold a lightbulb over my head and head out on a Sat. night in sf than to network with people one by one

asciilifeform: waiwat?!

asciilifeform: light bulb?

gabriel_laddel: then did that -- for 3-6 hours in the dead of night. Some guy offered me his sister's hand in marriage.

asciilifeform: didja take it?

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> do i need to do some time in a dope den , to learn this ? << I have been suggested you visit an AA/NA meeting for some time to meet people

asciilifeform: dun i gotta take to drink 1st, and then quit..? ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: lolno. But when you "tweak" the ideas in your head start to drive rather than sane human things like "I shouldn't be fooling around with these love-glasses and the way they make the girls look in broad daylight" go out the window.

BingoBoingo: Tradition 3: The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Doesn't say for how long...

asciilifeform: lol never before heard of such a thing.

asciilifeform: must be a californilandia thing

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: taking performance dope, when you dun have any aim, is rather like swinging a hammer wildly around your room, where there are no nails to pound

BingoBoingo wonder what gabriel_laddel's objection to cocaine was, it's a natural botanical and reportedly fairly cheap compared to historically

asciilifeform: likely to end badly

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possibly he valued his nose ?

asciilifeform: dun think it's very active orally ?

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform nah. understanding through observation can be performance-enhanced. is useful too.

asciilifeform: !#s a smell of petrol pervades throughout

asciilifeform: !~google a smell of petrol pervades throughout

jhvh1: asciilifeform: Quote by Bertrand Russell: “William James describes a man who got ...: <https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/301370-william-james-describes-a-man-who-got-the-experience-from>; Secret of the Universe: A Strong Smell of Turpentine Prevails ...: <https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/31/turpentine-prevails/>; to spread over an area - synonyms and related words | Macmillan ...: (1 more message)

asciilifeform: turpentine, it was.

asciilifeform: re 'understanding'.

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> dun think it's very active orally ? << Could make a chewing gum or sublingual tablet

asciilifeform: let's for the l0gz :

asciilifeform: 'William James describes a man who got the experience from laughing-gas; whenever he was under its influence, he knew the secret of the universe, but when he came to, he had forgotten it. At last, with immense effort, he wrote down the secret before the vision had faded. When completely recovered, he rushed to see what he had written. It was : “A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.” '

gabriel_laddel: I have to move because people are coming into the room, but will drop an actual story with details here in a sec, or at least PM to you ascii

asciilifeform: plz dun pm

asciilifeform: i very rarely read pm. post in-chan.

asciilifeform: trinque: i suppose you dun think those priests who set themselves on fire , were interesting either

BingoBoingo: trinque: Maybe he hits bottom, finds a sponsor to guide him through steps, becomes useful?

asciilifeform: trinque: what discipline. petrol, match.

asciilifeform: whereas scoring, weighing, purifying dope, while knowing what you signed up for -- discipline.

asciilifeform: as i understand.

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/#selection-2959.0-2975.867 << see also

asciilifeform bbl,meat

asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: have some patience, ffs, post things in-chan ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: An effective summary of d-amph: it works, you're in control it and has no comedown (due to l-amph in adderal). Whereas meth (again no negative comedown aside from sleep & need to eat like pregnant (with ideas?)) will grab your conciousness and irreversiby chain it to your own interests in the span of 5-15 minutes. Anyone rambling about how 'pleasu

gabriel_laddel: rable' it is simply has no academic interests & probably spends most of their time seeking or finding sexual release (ie #tweaker nation tumblr females. Notice, very few post about meth and the read much closer to 'Ive no purpose, need to reproduce, NOW. What you like meth? OKAYSUREWHATEVERMETOOJUSTFUCKMEALREADY'). The catch however is that you've ☟︎☟︎

gabriel_laddel: not a choice in the matter. A state of (Csikszentmihalyi) flow - forgetting to eat, drink, sitting in one position beyond any reasonable limit - we all do this when thinking anyways, but it can be interupted. When you remove the very notion of interruption what you're left with is tweaking, which is an awful lot like being enslaved, perfectly, by a

gabriel_laddel: n idea, or some form of sensory input bodily electrical resonance. MP's 'women are only useful as slaves' comes to mind. Are men only useful when tweaking? 'Bennies' were readily available at Los Alamos during MP. Did no-sleep-drive-and-read-johnny use? I can't find primary sources and am also digressing... Tweaking. Something WILL grab your intere ☟︎☟︎

gabriel_laddel: Example: had the thought -- ~ _someone, somewhere_ in this godforsakken sodom must have an imagination, and a curiosity to match it! So I took a light bulb, placed it above my head like a cartoon 'idea emoji' and walked all of SF many times over trying to elicit some sort of novel reaction from the fri night 'partygoers' (ED NOTE: sf is a nursing h

gabriel_laddel: ome and a weekend nights end at like 11pm because my generation deserves holocaust). This involved dancing around all over the place, even going so far as to pull out my computer & code onehanded, balancing on one foot, bobbing like a maniac, with lightbulb affixed. Honest to god, I can't tell you if ANYONE even lives in the whole western half of t

gabriel_laddel: he city, because I didn't see a soul four hours (maybe two, idk). Found a doorbell with arab lettering and rang it furiously. I hope it disturbed them something awful anddsfsdfsdfewdshdslkhfdslhlkjfdshdskjfhds AHEM. Wasn't thinking that at the time, but a terrorist attack & subsequent rebuild seems more likely than any other route to improved publi

gabriel_laddel: Anyways there are no imaginative+curious people in SF, but the guy offering his sister had the right idea. Hm. Actually there was one now that I think about it. Two if you count the negro "man, I need some of what you've got". Fuck yeah Black America. Better showing than whitey.

asciilifeform: woah, gabriel_laddel have you considered... blog

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: https://www.quora.com/profile/Jeff-SKT < check out the bottomost answer he gave, also

asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all

jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9795.0, vol: 29252.59358784 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9674.3, vol: 165051.96008665 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9670.0, vol: 9102.32817399 | Volume-weighted last average: 9691.46583039

asciilifeform: lol fire extinguisher hastily fired

asciilifeform: 'If you start to change a lightbulb, then spend seven hours deconstructing and re-constructing the elaborate Moroccan light fixture in the kitchen, rearranging the stained glass so that the colors point in the right directions, shining it up inside and out, running to the store for better bulbs, threading the cord so that it lands in an inconspicuous position, you've just tweaked. '

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-25#808005 << see also thread ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2014-08-25 03:08 asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems

asciilifeform: i'm still waiting for gabriel_laddel's theorem tho

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: elaborate ?

asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744464 << readily available during ~all of ww2. consider reading about how this went, gabriel_laddel ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 21:11 gabriel_laddel: n idea, or some form of sensory input bodily electrical resonance. MP's 'women are only useful as slaves' comes to mind. Are men only useful when tweaking? 'Bennies' were readily available at Los Alamos during MP. Did no-sleep-drive-and-read-johnny use? I can't find primary sources and am also digressing... Tweaking. Something WILL grab your intere

asciilifeform: in particular at the front.

gabriel_laddel: Well for one, awfully interesting comparison - to a chinaman!? Completely out of the blue (yellow?). That his eunuchs did anything at all continues to be surprising to me, thought I guess floggings are useful motivation when you've no sexual drive?

gabriel_laddel: Nothing in particular that I can say "aha! crazy!" as the whole story is totally alien

asciilifeform: which in particular

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 15:07 mircea_popescu: also managed to misplace a 2ct diamond i used to wear in mah lapel... utter puyi operation i'm running over here.

asciilifeform: puyi famously got cleaned out, 'palace uh.. burned down, uhyea' sort of thing ☟︎

asciilifeform: tho for a deposed emperor and quisling figurehead ( ceremonially crowned by invading jp ) he ended not so badly -- in communist nomenklatura when he finally died

asciilifeform: ( from a mircea_popescuine pov -- ended badly, had approx same amt of agency as typical crack whore )

asciilifeform: !#s puyi

asciilifeform: hm could've sworn there was moar.

asciilifeform: !#s pu yi

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform do you have a book recommendation for use of amphetamines in ww2? I looked a few times and nothing caught my interest

asciilifeform: try in german, japanese literature

asciilifeform: e.g. 'pervitin', 'shabu'

asciilifeform: it was imperial jp that first put meth into mass production

asciilifeform: banzai!

asciilifeform: for pre-history -- edeleanu (romania!) ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: My interest, incidentally is what OTC d-amph looks like on societal level. The yanks had racemic amph, Erdos had that + ritilan. Japs & Germans had meth. Nobody has had a d-amph free-for-all afaict.

asciilifeform: britain

asciilifeform: and for a while usa.

asciilifeform: at one time su also, but didn't really catch on

asciilifeform: ( it was tried repeatedly as... antidepressant, in su )

asciilifeform: for some reason i thought laevo-isomer has 0 effect on nervous system -- e.g. laevo-meth is sold in every pharmacy in usa, as a nasal decongestant

asciilifeform: plenty of kamikazes... succeeded

asciilifeform: but on top of this, no shortage of soldiers came home , hard to say if 'with help of' or 'in spite of' whatever dopes they ate

asciilifeform: slaves.

gabriel_laddel: Matter... matters. If you have leftover reagents you might get what is known as "shooter's dope". Got extra l-isomer for meth? Biker crank. Phosphorous? Pink champagne.

asciilifeform: the 1 crowned head who ate meth, famously did not end well

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-22#1028014 << e.g ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-02-22 01:26 mircea_popescu: wer sind sie eigentlich, dass sie einen befehl, den ich gebe, zu missachten wagen!!??!?!!!?! etc

gabriel_laddel: Kansas 'annie' from the 90s was supposedly far more powerful than the crystal available today because of the "dirty leftover reagents".

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if so, why no one isolated the contaminant and sold as own dope ? ☟︎

asciilifeform: if subj was 'far more powerful'

gabriel_laddel: the cartels are not sophisticated enough to read the logs & go "hey, if there is enough variation in alcohols for one of the world's most wealthy men to comment on them, perhaps also for our product" ☟︎

asciilifeform: do dope folx not ever bother to run through a column or wat

asciilifeform: this is eerily reminiscent of asciilifeform's kvm thread

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform people end up in jail, the people who do "annie" typically are not the guys running an assay on it, etc. etc.

asciilifeform: i.e. is it possible that gabriel_laddel wanted a dope for theorems, but what there is on the market is there so that derps can http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744462 etc ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 21:11 gabriel_laddel: rable' it is simply has no academic interests & probably spends most of their time seeking or finding sexual release (ie #tweaker nation tumblr females. Notice, very few post about meth and the read much closer to 'Ive no purpose, need to reproduce, NOW. What you like meth? OKAYSUREWHATEVERMETOOJUSTFUCKMEALREADY'). The catch however is that you've

a111: Logged on 2015-05-05 22:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1121502 << you have to understand something essential about drugs : they aren't products. this in the sense that their flux isn't pull, it's push (which is why the sellers are called pushers). so no, the mexican economy does not rely on others buying drugs anymore than britain's economy relied on chinese buying opium.

asciilifeform: i thought jail was required 'university' for dope people, like actual university used to be for maths

gabriel_laddel: trinque: dude whatever I heard drugs existed and sought them out by iterating through every human I could find.

gabriel_laddel: some people learn about sex and go MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMME. Some people hear about sports and find it appeals to them. there is a wide variation in genetics & environments.

trinque: go fly and see him, watch him smoke the stuff. can transcribe the theorems coming out of his ears.

asciilifeform: trinque: i'll admit that i dun really buy the 'pushing' angle. if anything it's the mcdonaldizers and walmartizers, star topology creators, who create the demand for opiums

gabriel_laddel: Uncle Al: ~"I had IV drip of morphine for 3 months. opiates are boring pharma"

asciilifeform: trinque has a point, a byte in the l0gz is not cheap !

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i recommend to take a break and come back when you have theorem, or at least something new. and use some of your artificial stamina to make a blog, and write.

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: understand also that yer overclocking yer meat, and it will have eventually to be paid for.

asciilifeform: with interest.

asciilifeform: eventually you will take the pill and nothing useful will happen.

asciilifeform: woah d00d actually did as he was told, for 1ce.

asciilifeform: btw there is a famous 1990s ru b00k on subj of gabriel_laddel, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-27#536165 . ( summary : at one time ephedrine was sold openly, in 1980s su , for asthmatics. and student culture of methism developed, folx would buy the feedstock, do the reaction in glass taken home from school/work ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2014-02-27 18:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: famous autobio. take on the subject, 'Низший Пилотаж' (http://lib.ru/ZHURNAL/pilotazh.txt)

asciilifeform: the 'krokodilists' are superficially similar but different in that typically someone ~else~ , in meatwot, cooks the ersatz dope for them

asciilifeform: ( also not sure how comparable is the psychology of krokodilism, which is a form of morphinism, to gabriel_laddeling. ) ☟︎