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mircea_popescu: not ideal :p
mod6: :]
mod6: over-thought that WAY too much
hanbot: in today's lols, i go to make the new vdiff, i get http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WoPts/?raw=true
mod6: huh. did everything press ok?
shinohai: II removed the error message thingy and works fine for me now, nothing: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3MUUj/?raw=true
hanbot: mod6 yeah
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes to explain what i mean : there's some reality the contract handles (R) and some actual wording of the contract W. the delta R-W can be brought under an arbitrary value epsilon, but not to zero. the delta epsilon translates in a delta time dT you have to pour into the wringing of this allignment.
mircea_popescu: then later, events E that fall within W will take (putatively) less time to resolve than events E' that fall within the epsilon ; however a) the probability of E'/E is not equal to the factor R/epsilon (but worse) and b) all this requires people actually read W, which is a cost (leaving aside how it's also something some won't pay).
mircea_popescu: as in any case the E' will have to be resolved by recourse to the forum, and as b) is not all that insignificant, the dT investment is a poor usage of your limited T resource.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile being able to authoritatively answer "buy X, not Y" is very valuable, because unlike the above scenario, where time you expend actually dampens republican affairs (as for every dT you put in, everyone has to put in some d'T as well), this on the contrary leverages : for every dT you put in, everyone DOESN'T have to put in some d''T.
mircea_popescu: besideswhich : the "soft consensus" as to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-06#1781846 "is no good" has no actual backing ; and i strongly suspect you couldn't actually explain to me what exactly is wrong with either cpu or motherboard. well...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-06 01:57 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo phf trinque diana_coman so i'm thinking of basically getting a dozen amd fx-8350s (because just 125w compared to say fx-9590s 220) racked in u2 mbs (say maybe ASRock 970M PRO3 ? i thinkl that fits in 2u neh ?) with 64 gb ram each and a coupla ssds ? any complaints/suggestions ?
mircea_popescu: hanbot im willing to bet shitty gcc. what version is it ?
hanbot: 4.4.3. just saying.
mircea_popescu: heh
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: very sensible, ty
ben_vulpes bbl, sister got engaged, bubblestiem
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785630 << naturally. i'll see if i can reproduce it☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 01:20 hanbot: in today's lols, i go to make the new vdiff, i get http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WoPts/?raw=true
hanbot: phf anyway re your footnote four, i think it looks great, and stolen takes one l, though "stollen from elsewhere" sounds delicious
mircea_popescu: also stallin
phf: a ty
mircea_popescu: phf so what is the call on republican alphabetic order ? "all strings are made of bytes and the byte order is the alphabetic order" ?
mircea_popescu: specifically in our case, dot (2e) comes after dash (2d) ?
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-22#1785620 <-- X11 implementation of client-server model is broken (in more than one way), X clients could in principle recover from this condition, but they don't.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-22 23:33 mircea_popescu: because why just fucking restart x.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-22#1785621 <-- ugh, my engrish; of course, by "highlighting" I mean "text selection", which is a GUI thing, and w3m and lynx/links seem to lack it altogether. now, scrolling they don't lack, but the js bit still doesn't implement window.scroll. anyway, let's consider the fact that text editors implement both selection and scrolling (and possibly other features useful for a browser), so a stripped-down text☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-22 23:34 mircea_popescu: and also, why the fuck would text browser lack highlighting. how's it supposed to even work.
spyked: editor might actually make a good basis for a browser. emacs, if we were to take greenspun's tenth rule into account.
spyked: there's another thing, though I still have to get up to date on http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hypertext : teh Trilema JS is trying to solve what seems to be a limitation in the current URI scheme. the "resource" in URI refers to documents/pages (files!), whereas we want to (and it would be useful to be able to) link to subtrees in the document.
spyked: very similar discussion to e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758790 ; diff works on hunks, not files, similarly, hypertext works on trees, not files. but this is only a (not very well thought out so far) intuition.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-26 21:42 phf: we also at some point had a thread, where i believe ascii but also others were leaning towards the idea of a single file vpatches (i.e. that a vpatch should only ever contain hunks for a single file). i'm starting to think that multi-file solutions in general are a hack ("we can't fit the entire compilation in memory"), but then i've been looking at TeX on one hand, and the "millions of support files" in diff/patch on the other
mircea_popescu: spyked no, ~i know~
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking problem, x is "mature" rather than the abstract joke it was in the 90s, yet it STILL doesn't handle the most basic of things. which is -- just fucking rebind the pipes holy hell wtf, sigpipe is an acceptable behaviour now ?!
mircea_popescu: and as to the selection : i just tried ctrl^ and it worked fine. IN NANO.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, what do you think diana_coman should eucrypt also include an elastic hashing algo on top of keccak and serpent ?
mircea_popescu: that's the only item conceivably still needed.
mod6: Mornin'
mod6: TMSR~ : Here's the V 99993 Release email : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-February/000290.html
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun.
mircea_popescu: incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-21 18:48 mircea_popescu: normally i'd have alf explain it to you ; but he's busy. so what i want you to do is write a blog article about "how to use merkle trees to avoid duplicate problem in web page archiving", and then i'll comment on it.
trinque: at first I said to myself "what unix ships without /tmp", and then I get to 0x04 and what can I say. "ship completely useless" indeed.
mircea_popescu: also ben_vulpes : the thinking over at s.mg is that we want a dedicated box for teh server plus a vps for holding the website and such things, so we don't have to eat the whole apache overload on the game server.
mircea_popescu: trinque is that sun ?
trinque: ah I have no idea if there actually is one without /tmp, but I get where the guy's mistrust comes from.
mircea_popescu: oh oh, mailing list reference
mircea_popescu: i was "wtf, what unix-thing was ever called 0x04?!?"
trinque: heh yup.
mircea_popescu: but yes, good idea to condomwrap shellouts.
mircea_popescu: i'd take it one step further and : mod6 do you think it might be a good idea to actually include hashes ?
mircea_popescu: print a warning, "your X util exists, but its hash differs from what i ran this on, so please test and report" ?
mircea_popescu: then you could just keep a list of these and people ~would know~ when it is useful to report their runs.
mircea_popescu: and obviously calling it "a list" of hashes is just another playful reference to teh prior discussion. lel.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the idea is to gut the anthill from inside the ants.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:32 mircea_popescu: incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: I see your point re-hashes, might be something to consider in the future. Been avoiding painting myself into a corner with the prototype.
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
mod6: I've gotta go snow blow this 8" of snow. Will think on it a bit.
mircea_popescu: something like "shellouts marked for extinction anyway, no point building on them" ?
mod6: Well... I'm worried that if start to try to pin down all of the versions and their hashes, it just adds a bunch of complexity.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> something like "shellouts marked for extinction anyway, no point building on them" ? << and this, yes.
mircea_popescu: of course, the converse view (that complexity is alreadyu added the moment you shellout to them) also holds some water.
mod6: I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, i don't think shellouts PER SE are a bad idea, or the wrong thing, or untenable. much like the notion of building houses WITH DOORS isn't in itself problematic. now, what gets in through those holes, well...
mod6: But, not impossible. I'm not sure, maybe someone else has better ideas how to handle this.
mod6: Ah, ok.
mod6: brb, gotta remove the snow here quick.
mircea_popescu: no rush really/
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/02/us-customs-and-border-patrol-allegedly-has-never-been-able-to-check-signatures-on-passport-rfid-data/ << Qntra - US Customs And Border Patrol Allegedly Has Never Been Able To Check Signatures On Passport RFID Data
mircea_popescu: ehehe
BingoBoingo: One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline.
asciilifeform ate log; has a 10min slot.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785695 << i can't think of why it would be wrong to shell-out to ~working~ (sane) util. shellouts only suck if to e.g. kochgpg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:45 mod6: I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
mircea_popescu: quite
asciilifeform: the job of decoding a rsaoid and getting a hash, and the job of hashing a 100GB thing and getting the orig hash to compare to, as part of verifying a sig, are conceptually quite separate. really oughta be separate proggies, per 'unix philosophy' or even any reasonable successor to it
mircea_popescu: the reason they're lib'd together (in say eucrypt) is rather the fact that they require similar standards of care.
asciilifeform: right
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, if unix philosophy were anymore than 15yos notions that "that's it, now i understand women!" they very much would be.
asciilifeform: that part makes sense. but conceptually they're different ops. and could even live inside same binary but invoked variantly to simulate being different ones, a la busybox say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worse, 50 y.o. notion.
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with two separate utilities built on the same lib exposing different edges. "wasteful" but in a veheheheeeery theoretical sense, when compared to 10mb webpages.
asciilifeform: it is difficult to talk about waste, aha, given what is on the box already..
mircea_popescu: ima waste all the dozens of bytes at a time i feel like, holy hell "install disc". TO INSTALL AN X THAT CRASHES ALL CLIENTS.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know what they say, a tendency to bury the lede in journalism is not unlike a tendency to spread legs in a convent : sure signs one does not actually belong there.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785703 << some discoveries re the idiocy of the enemy are so astonishingly, riotously vexing of the very imagination, that they are difficult to believe. like the time that an ex-nsa-grunt stuck sharing an oar with asciilifeform on a slavegalley, insisted that usg until late obummer reign did not have a canonical Official implementation of rsa, and that when such was finally ratified , it was from a☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 16:03 BingoBoingo: One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline.
asciilifeform: proggy written by an intern
mircea_popescu: in other sad news, i need a new fridge ;/
asciilifeform: nobody swaps compressors in mircea_popescustan ?
mircea_popescu: it's this huge, taller-than-person, double-door purely usian abomination unknown in these lands. i just opened it and the act apparently upsed the clever packing scheme used because i ended up covered in items.
mircea_popescu: i'm seriously considering getting an actual freeze room next place. like a fucking restaurant ;/
asciilifeform: at one time asciilifeform worked in a lab with a freeze room, it was great.
asciilifeform: ( had desk in it, and all )
asciilifeform resets clock. bbl.
mircea_popescu: yeah, get a rack with meathooks in there too, will double as punishment room jus' fine
mircea_popescu: anyway, at the risk of boring the more advanced minds, let us take this opportunity to harp on the perfection that is the v model.
mircea_popescu: so suppose today minigame calls eucrypt complete, and proceeds to build upon it. suppose later, for whatever reason, something useful is added to the tree (say the elastic hash item -- as it happens there can be decent arguments had both pro and against including what's really not that cryptographic an useful item).
mircea_popescu: for as long as this tree is built upon, the VERY FACT that it is built upon guarantees minigame that it will ALWAYS be able to build its prerequisites. because in being older they come earlier in the press, so you just stop sooner.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, if this tree is orphaned for whatever reason (such as someone regrinding some chunk that includes portions downstream from minigame's press point), the prevailing of that regrind is ~actually~ based on proper social behaviours. it must have been supported by minigame too, to have prevailed ; or else minigame's agency must have been indeed so insignificant as to warrant some serious self-examination there.
mircea_popescu: very much no more of this backroom http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778804☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-31 14:34 mp_en_viaje: so no, protected mode hasn;'t become because it offered. the pantsuit decided it must be, and therefore prevented the non-mongoloid child from offering.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/02/chicoms-take-their-anbang/ << Qntra - Chicoms Take Their Anbang
BingoBoingo: ^ In other http://trilema.com/2014/people-us-dollars-are-not-worth-a-fifth-of-a-bitcent-stop-selling/#selection-193.97-193.392
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: Anyways it seems like Qntra returned just in time to shit to start happening again. Just now the stakes and pantsuit stanks are higher.
mircea_popescu: cool beans huh
BingoBoingo: Seriously. Who could have know so abjectly little would happen between Summer 2017 and the first half of February 2018
mircea_popescu: who indeed.
BingoBoingo baking post for other blawg nao
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785705 << this seems to be a fair point, where one has a "sane" thing to begin with.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 16:09 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785695 << i can't think of why it would be wrong to shell-out to ~working~ (sane) util. shellouts only suck if to e.g. kochgpg
mod6 is drinking a bottle of water after snow-removal. am quite stunned it doesn't say "Gluten Free" on the bottle.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's chock-fulla gluten.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-30#400024 linkable perhaps☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-11-30 21:30 mircea_popescu: ;;rate ukto -1 Messy Bitfunder closedown
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty linked on the WOT:nonperson text
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785664 << can confirm I did not realise immensity at first, but am up for educating myself so that I can realise.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 14:52 mircea_popescu: and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785459 << incidentally, this doc has been very useful thus far in illuminating my own naivete. Spent the last coupla days just learning ultra-basics of, e.g. hash preimage, second preimage, and collision resistance. Hell, I even had to look up simple big O notation. I am, however, learning it, at least. "One day at a time"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-21 18:58 shinohai: https://www.emsec.rub.de/media/crypto/attachments/files/2011/04/becker_1.pdf <<< Paper on subject of merkle trees I found handy lobbes, for your perusal
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785685 << I am honored to be considered for such a grant. Will continue work to eventually demonstrate grant-worthiness in form of blog post / application.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:39 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider.
lobbes bbl, meat