log☇︎
483 entries in 0.699s
mircea_popescu: then doods walk in here with "oh, rms gotta be respekted for his contribution"
asciilifeform: what did they want with rms's mips laptop, lol
mircea_popescu: (which -- how come nobody goes "hey, rms wasted through failing to save so and so engineer years in that whole fiasco". there's this very iritatingly wikipedian attitude of universalist nonsense, "we decided on x all avoidable sacrifice is going to be piously frauded into necessary now". and i dun like it.)
mircea_popescu: for all you know, orlov lives on a moored boat, and this dood lives in rms's quarters.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, ask rms. he's the champion of "gnu tools dun work, take me seriously"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769458 << i find these lulshits, "alien conference" held by the la comicon whores in the la comicon hangars as a very useful sugar trap. rms -- opted to go to nefario's lulference, is now fucked. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect this was at the time the true problem : jwz wanted to unicode the japanese way and rms didn't even understand what's being discussed (which -- major fucking failure for the role, incidentally).
asciilifeform: dunno that rms actually ~did~ anything in past 20+ yr. the man is a living flag. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i can't think of any project that actually thrived under his management. systemd tard pm'd circles around a decade's worth of collected rms effort in half a year.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1990s rms, either. man was possibly the worst middle management i ever saw.
asciilifeform: rms is a mushroom nao, tho
mircea_popescu: tbh and fwiw, if i ran the xemacs i would not permit rms anywhere near any sort of merged variant either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect the political divide is 100% xemacs will only accept merger INTO xemacs, which is to say, to get rid of rms, because he's useless / other camp can't get over "rms is useless".
mircea_popescu: and rms saw ~no value in supporting x, especially if that was going to break any more of the thoroughly broken bag of fractures they were tending as emacs 18
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig emacs pre-dates rms. goes back into the mists of time.
mircea_popescu: the gui focus of their endless flamewars was dumb and not particularily flattering, netiehr for the gabriel/jwz side nor for the rms+retarded eurobois side
phf: my read on the situation is that it's a bunch of lisp machiners taking emacs and trying to turn it into a lisp machine, and rms having a ptsd reaction to it
mircea_popescu: basically, a principled "emacs does not want or need window-decorations gtfo" out of rms would have been a lot better than his inept dithering
asciilifeform: rms ~= georgy gapon aka 'Поп Гапон'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rms << this may be interesting, but read it from the bottom up
zineKing: Hey, don't bad mouth RMS.
mircea_popescu: it goes directly to the ugly truth at the bottom of the alt-usg (referenced above as 'cryptographic komyoonity' but rms's goons too [recently i've been seeing pompous "explanations" as to how linux is not a thing, it's just gnu os that matters btw]) : pure socialism.
mircea_popescu: i am personally insulted by all the useless fuckwits with patreon profiles because unlike the useless fuckwits a la say rms, they MOVED THERE AFTER THE REPUBLIC.
mircea_popescu: so there's no SWI in rms-risc ?
asciilifeform: but not the Troo RMS Linux Phoundation risc .
asciilifeform: ( rms, sad as it may be to say, is among these. )
asciilifeform: it was never clear to me from rms's surviving writing what he thought mit ought to have done with the lispm, if not to license to manufacturers
asciilifeform: rms was not ,in so far as i can tell, involved in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738171 aspects ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( re rms specifically )
asciilifeform: iirc rms was most incensed re the luring away of ~people~, rather than lifted code
phf: well, rms's nervous break down makes some sense when you actually read the code. there's a very obvious clear "steal everything that's not bolted" going on. cadr's SYSTEM sources were being developed in parallel with symbolics and LMI (to the point that there are conditionals in the cadr's code to compile os both on lmi and genera), with interactions slowly decreasing over time
asciilifeform: lol rms interview on p. 94 (1989)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc theo de raadt turned to rms-like 'human mushroom' thing looong ago
mod6 reads the rms thread
asciilifeform: see the classic, https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ , and the rms thread, re why this is not available for c/cpp gcc
mircea_popescu is sick of "famous people" like of crab apples. let them sit in some other latrine with their "oh i lost my pgp key 20 years ago" zimmerman and their "i dedicate my life to raising impudent street urchins as if they were white people" bernstein and their "oh hi, rng ?" koch and their "o btw, i lied about that laptop" rms everything else.
mircea_popescu: he should have been here. arguably more than, eg, rms.
asciilifeform: arguably more than, e.g., rms
asciilifeform: not sure if that one can be pinned on rms per se -- he was already in his ambulatory mushroom phase at that point
asciilifeform: ( emacs pre-dates rms )
asciilifeform: rms afaik is not a serial anything, had exactly 1 thing
asciilifeform: point re esr, is that he agreed to work as an ideological judas goat to counter rms
erlehmann: rms is pretty charismatic btw. would meet again, even if i can guess i will not learn much.
erlehmann: and rms was like “no, it was not flirting, i am very sure”
erlehmann: asciilifeform if you are interested, i suggest to email rms yourself. he answers.
erlehmann: i once met rms at a conference and asked him about viability of free hardware. his answer was along the lines of 1. apparently non-free hardware has worked for decades 2. whoever makes your board can still subvert your trustworthy design, you can't check that 3. maybe if we have star-trek-style replicators one day, hahaha
diana_coman: ahahah, perhaps they'll have a special conf session re moar rms ppl!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-23#1660423 << lol, moar rms ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: maybe he never overcomes the moment, spends rest of his life cringing over this, like a sort of lefty rms.
asciilifeform: 'stand up' how? like rms?
phf: asciilifeform: you'll find this amusing, http://www.nncpgo.org. a very odd mixture of good (xdr for serialization, modeled after uucp) and bad ideas (written in go to begin with). but written by a one man cypherpunk, http://www.stargrave.org a stereotypical ru programmer, really into RMS, copyleft, and death metal. guy also wrote http://www.govpn.info and http://www.cypherpunks.ru/gogost/ (a GOST!! implementation in go). former FIDO node. what a c
mircea_popescu: other than rms.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to take the thing back to rms and friends : socialism is not a political choice, it's a psychological defense. it expresses itself in fundamentally defective individuals. tis what it is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect rms did no such thing ; but that he correctly believed that if structured as ~radical~ socialism, socialism may be made to appear palatable to intelligent people ; at any rate more so than the commodified variant.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms naively believed (but afaik -- genuinely believed) that one can separate the cutlets from the flies.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was pre-gnu rms, as far as is known -- apolitical
asciilifeform: iirc rms really hated noftsker, for some reason
phf: actually that's the same (i assume rhetorical) question rms was asking
asciilifeform: most of the subj of thread is post-rms.
mircea_popescu: i mean rms, i understand, stray dog mit took in, he'd bark at st peter if st peter came by. but the rest of 'em ?
phf: mcclim always reminds me of how rms was planning on competing with symbolics by reimplementing everything they had on top of gnu platform. that was the goal. only a handful people who actually worked with a genera realize how "special" the result of rms's work was. ☟︎☟︎
phf: then gosling wrote a version of emacs for a unix machine, that was used by rms as the foundation for his emacs
phf: well, since already spoilt, original emacs was written by a bunch of different people for TECO and long after rms became maintainer of that. then greenberg rewrote it in lisp (multics emacs)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: http://ergoemacs.org/misc/Daniel_Weinreb_rebuttal_to_rms.html << see also.
mircea_popescu: might be a fun weekend project, "establish rms emacs involvement", if you're bored one weekend.
Framedragger: didn't rms implement emacs by ~himself? or that doesn't count?
mircea_popescu: and by people with no technical ability i mean the likes of ian murdock or rms. the lot of them, really.
trinque: RMS, wrathful old testament god, confuses the language of the people to prevent another tower of Microshit from being built.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: this type of life has worked for programmers (e.g., rms, though he did eventually turn into a human mushroom, and i do not think it was pure chance)
mircea_popescu: there;s a reason rms spent his days shuttling from brazil to liberia or wherever the fuck "open source" was "really taking off" once open source was well and truly dead.
asciilifeform: rms, the talking mushroom, is not connected
mircea_popescu: and rms went to glbse "conference". and and.
asciilifeform: https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html << further lulz re rms guest lecture at mcc.
asciilifeform: it was obvious even to rms, the mushroom man
asciilifeform: rms never went 'i'ma make exception because 9/11' or 'i'ma make exception because 100mil in rathead toiletpaper stock'
asciilifeform: one of the reasons i still, despite everything, have > 0 respect for rms, is that of all of these figures, he never had 'about-face' moment.
mircea_popescu: anyways, to round off the whole linux/bsd, esr/rms/etc angle : at any point the Moterhood (be it implemented in practice as "the USG" or "the public opinion" or "the church of England" or whatever the fuck - there will exist a conclave of the lazy, stupid and covetous, and it will be somewhat politically influential and appear VERY politically influential much like to the small children the mother appears truly awesome in her
mircea_popescu: rms certainly had a large pile of that.
asciilifeform: not rms, or linus, either.
asciilifeform: at one point i had no substantial quarrel with rms.
mircea_popescu: yeah should be curious to see when did alf like dbus. rms ? pre ? post ?
asciilifeform: rms also.
asciilifeform: originally i bought that box to try the rms thing.
asciilifeform: 126.4 v (rms) peak for last 12 months.
mircea_popescu: what rms thought, in his amusing naivite, to be defending hadn't in fact existed for a decade by the point news of it reached him. fruhlingserwachen, the steiner offensive.
mircea_popescu: "was gcc 5.x rms approved or not ?" "dude... who cares. it fails to build eulora."
mircea_popescu: can't say rms / gnu is hindering them any.
phf: i'm pretty sure that ai memos are enough to rebuild computing from scratch. has architectural descriptions, cpu design, fabrication, language designs, text editors ("emacs" before it was taken over by rms is described in one of the ai-memos, both as a standalone thing and as set of TECO marcos), various algorithms
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you , in particular, could probably quite easily 'go knuth' or rms and use the net via courier.
asciilifeform: it is not, for example, the fault of gentoo authors, that rms became a living mushroom and lifted not one finger to keep emacs from demanding dbus
mircea_popescu: famously rms claims to have been using one ; which claim was meanwhile experimentally falsified here.
phf: rms famously uses cli emacs on getty, and starts x "from time to time when he needs to look at some pdfs", that he mostly prints, owing to infinite MIT staff printers
asciilifeform: re rms lying
a111: Logged on 2016-09-21 03:09 asciilifeform: the other thing about rms and his response - the 'sex harassment' racket has been a thing in usa for long enough that a well-developed body of kabuki ritual now exists; where, if an org can demonstrate that said kabuki were religiously followed, its liability is in practice limited to something survivable
mircea_popescu: evidently, rms does not want to get negrated.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-26: [14:59:14] <asciilifeform> (summary : seems like rms grew a spine for the occasion and it exercising the 'libreboot' trademark, and expelling the idiot with empty pockets)
asciilifeform: (summary : seems like rms grew a spine for the occasion and it exercising the 'libreboot' trademark, and expelling the idiot with empty pockets)
asciilifeform: (and, evidently, rms employs one...)
asciilifeform: the other thing about rms and his response - the 'sex harassment' racket has been a thing in usa for long enough that a well-developed body of kabuki ritual now exists; where, if an org can demonstrate that said kabuki were religiously followed, its liability is in practice limited to something survivable ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-29 16:55 asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.