ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: receipt acknowledged, in the middle of something
BingoBoingo: First we get a minor pestilence, now we have a rape ghost, what spectre from the past is next
mats: we haven't heard from that idiot anduck in a while
ben_vulpes: well now i'm imagining that gif with a 3-piece
BingoBoingo: 5 min I can take, shinohai pls to hear this alarm to SEO pls, k thx
mircea_popescu: mats you old enough to recall that angry canadian dude what was his name...
BingoBoingo: So named because of the dry cock snow on his face
mircea_popescu: before i was famous the stock explanation was that "you don't know which girl was his girlfriend - but he does!".
BingoBoingo thinks mp would appreciate the dim fate of PC Principal on last night's south park.
mircea_popescu: i've kinda ditched the whole thing once they did that butt-teary "oh, failure of pc means we should do more better pc".
mats: mircea_popescu: naphex?
mircea_popescu: naphex was this guy who tried to get a camwhore thing going but i think it ate him
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> !!key BingoBoingo << /me reflexively checked my key's health on Phuctor at this invocation
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no, no, eskimo bob << Sell heatbonds without even mining
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there may be better ways to go, but not many better ways to come.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: NEgative health is still health
mats: so you mean NewLiberty then
mircea_popescu: i dunno who that is. oh, no, nefario was this iirc brit dude living in poverty.
mats: i dunno who you're talking about, must not have been interesting
a111: Logged on 2013-07-04 06:41 ThickAsThieves: EskimoBob is SO MUCH cooler than tiberius
mats: i remember seeing a pic of a canadian with moobs
ben_vulpes: i've never seen anyone get under mircea_popescu's skin like that guy did
mircea_popescu: come to think about it the early years were better in terms of sheer crazy. there was also atlas, and that dank dude with the festival.
mircea_popescu: and diablo with the 1mn btc datacenter to be powered independently.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "peace in our time shitgnomes" was added
mats: make tmsr great again
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> isn't it technically pence in our time ? << Not yet
shinohai: I feel like I've turned into the tmsr/eulora PR guy in some respects
shinohai thinks of posting this to r/debian
mircea_popescu: come to think about it... butts, probably. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole "ssh key made on debian recast as gpg key" thing is pretty bizarre.
mircea_popescu: i mean obviously sunlight and thunderstorms did it, but nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: the strangest thing about all this being the sher fucking age. really, 8 year old keys ? most people in bitcoin have trouble maintaining a key for a coupla years at a stretch, how the fuck did this wonder work.
mircea_popescu: shinohai that "foundation" think wasn't ever to be taken seriously.
shinohai: I know, but recently it seems a whole new level of bizarre coming out of there.
shinohai: Wonder if they fixed that "Let's run everything as uid 0 in Win10 bash" thing. Maybe the fundation can give them pointers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, the ssh keys were advertised by live boxes
mircea_popescu: it's this euro thing. "lowest maintenance male appearance" = lmma
mircea_popescu: urban "dog owners" are high on my list of insufferables, right up there with urban biking hipsters. this isn't to say that "police officers" shouldn't be shot on sight.
mircea_popescu: "crime, entirely manufactured by government, for the purpose of the government figthing crime"
BingoBoingo: << "In the AA meetings, there was wailing and the rending of garments. Selecting words from the safe space lexicon, they “just couldn’t get [their] heads around this.” They “felt violated.” This election, and here’s my personal favorite, has them “shaken to the core.” I’m talking about mature people who have been sober for years and years."
BingoBoingo: As is "sober except for these pills my dr keeps prescribing"
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "step" is not a valid command.
jhvh1: 10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
BingoBoingo: ^Also after a while some people start forgetting to do this
vvande: most people never learn that anyway, AA or not
ben_vulpes: !!up the_scourge planning to do something about all the reconnects?
deedbot: the_scourge voiced for 30 minutes.
jurov: orly. i haven't seen ben_vulpes actually process something since VAN :)
jurov: just my pet peeve that the most opinionated folks (see: alf) aren't actually seen to do it in practice
☟︎ jurov: i just threw my hands in disgust and use electrum. negrate as you wish.
☟︎ Framedragger: "Peace in our time, shitgnomes" is an excellent salute, tho
mircea_popescu: perhaps a better question would be "when didn't you run electrum", but let's jointly pretend.
mircea_popescu: ("but mp, 50 btc is too much for a seat at exchange ; 1500 btc is just fine for... a tld, whatever that is!")
mircea_popescu: to save my own pain in the future, ban syntax is /mode #trilema +b nick!other-nic@domain there's no regexp available except for the windows-* and domain identification is unreliable (may be IP, may be reverse dns on that IP, may be etc.)
trinque: o I got called out to write up runit did I?
mircea_popescu: read more like "i'm not smart enough for this one, try next door" to me :)
☟︎ jurov: what does electrum do? enables one to accept payments without having "mismatched amounts are kept" sinkhole in the foyer, which ben_vulpes seem to be too fond of.
☟︎☟︎ jurov: and i'd congratulate to 1500 btc mpex seats, as long as someone is actually seen paying :)
Framedragger: "Within 5 minutes, it was compromised by the Mirai botnet/worm"
mircea_popescu: jurov the problem is one of optics. you have not "seen paying" anyone for .achristianfamily either, but you credit the empire and discredit the republic for reasons we're invited to not misrepresent as misplaced loyalties, i guess. similarly with electrum - yes, for as long as you stick to the credit empire discredit republic mindset, it "enables" you.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but to my eyes, even the idea of putting enables and you in the saem sentence with the thing denues some sort of thinking problem. really, you think electrum enables YOU ?
mircea_popescu: and it disables who, usg ? not the other way around ? becauyse why, it's not seen happening (especially if you carefully don't look) ?
mircea_popescu: this is no good, what can i tell you. you're more than welcome to use it as your own software, but it's braindamage and it ain't convincing me.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger lulzy. i expect more than half the gear sold to lusers is being currently used by republican interest, so there is that.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 08:50 jurov: just my pet peeve that the most opinionated folks (see: alf) aren't actually seen to do it in practice
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 11:33 mircea_popescu: jurov what's electrum do again ?
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 12:27 jurov: what does electrum do? enables one to accept payments without having "mismatched amounts are kept" sinkhole in the foyer, which ben_vulpes seem to be too fond of.
jurov: crediting them to clients' account is not an option? how so?
mircea_popescu: gotta kyc in case the fat tard over at the us park administration gets tired of asking for special booth at burning man and wants to peruse pics of subtards licking fish through a screen of milk, gotta have the pics ready for him!!11
☟︎ jurov: who said anything about kyc?
jurov: some gpg key appears, sends you some amount, you now have keyid, amount in database
jurov: how do you decentralize this?
mircea_popescu: jurov what's the difference between "kyc" and "account" in this application ?
jurov: well, i'd be glad to get rid of account, if you solved the problem, i'm all ears!
jurov: you are saying that by keeping accounts i empower usg or something?
mircea_popescu: yes, i am saying that by keeping accounts you are empowering usg.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is an unidirectional payment mechanism for a fucking reason, after all.
jurov: of course unidirectional. you want to withdraw back, you pay the fee. i still don't see what's your problem
mircea_popescu: there's no way to have "equality" and not have ALL THE IMPLICATIONS of equality. which yes include "consumers" and "modern democracy" and hillary fucking clinton's aides.
jurov: equality dones not come into this
mircea_popescu: jurov either there's an injective payment function, in which case you have strictly yes-no payments, either get it right or it didn't happen ; or else you can have a bijective payment function, in which case you can have solutions to the "problems" you propose.
mircea_popescu: except for the part they're completely imaginary, and only pushed by the sort of people who want a bijective payment function to import the whole rest of equality's fruits, all is well.
jurov: "get it right or it didn't happen" can work only for perfectly spherical people
mircea_popescu: i would rather have an world bereft of any life on it ; than have more of the current crap.
☟︎ jurov: yes, i know. and you will eventually have.
trinque: oh my god teh drama, jurov
trinque: it's that hard to get an integer right?
mircea_popescu: trinque it is actually impossible, for the consumer market. which is the point.
mircea_popescu: and the strangest part being, that he expects we'll be upset with him for it. as if you know, they're there because i was bored one evening and came up with some arbitrary dumb shit.
jurov: you say it helps usg, how's that not being upset?
jurov: i even saw loyalty mentioned
jurov: so, i'm asking, what do i do? close coinbr, wipe the evil accounts and we'll celebrate this inimitable tmsr victory?
mircea_popescu: you dun gotta do anything. what's you knoiw, what you do to do with right an' proper ?
mircea_popescu: we're even contemplating making a proper gns to be fed through dns pipe, much to alf's chagrin.
jurov: and electrum is idiotic evil, yes. still.
mircea_popescu: for as long as it doesn't take itself seriously i dun see the problem with it.
mircea_popescu: but the most informative part of this is - nobody seems to seriously dispute the obvious problem that "the btc address is 30 symbols long - what if i get one wrong ?!" ; yet even with that much accepted of the fundamental principle of republican money, ie, injective payment function - the obvious extension to sum is ... not so obvious. "oh what if i get one of 8 digits wrong ?" "i dunno dude... same as if you got 4 symbols wr
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2**160 / 8**10 = 1.3611294676837539E39
mircea_popescu: somehow getting right a space 10^40 larger is an acceptable expectation.
jurov: it has checksum :)
mircea_popescu: then people could verify identity to paypal with a nicely chosen mare's face and get paid!
mircea_popescu: jurov you realise the whole checksum is actually smaller in informatic terms than the single digit error in btc sum yes ?
jurov: so? any fault detection is better than nothing.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 15:25 mircea_popescu: i would rather have an world bereft of any life on it ; than have more of the current crap.
trinque: notwithstanding any sad degenerate forms of once homo sapiens
mircea_popescu: trinque i put up a fiverr offer detailing modelling work for eulora. i got a bunch of responses, including "Hi I can regge". and such.
mircea_popescu: no, see, that's the problem - the mantra is make things EASY.
mircea_popescu: that site incidentally is entirely constructed on stupid. the likeliness of their advertising open work orders (called "requests") is inverse to... the number of already present offers. counted. as such. except obviously the posts are mostly spam.
mircea_popescu: they delete your message box, aggressively. like - less than weekly. INCLUDING "starred" messages, because hey, UX, user-friendly etc does NOT include the needs of non-mentally-amoeba, or their expectations. you're more than welcome to take your interface expectation of "system will not delete what i starred" and shove it - the expectations that matter are "uuuu shinyyyy"
mircea_popescu: in between the deluge of spam and the enforced, deliberately, impossiblity of memory, you get... well you get "hi i can regge" basically.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i don't know just how interested you are to find inexpensive modellers etc, but just fyi peopleperhour.com may produce...better results. (but yeah, not for five bux.)
Framedragger: if it was mostly entomological though, then not relevant i guess.
mircea_popescu: some guy asked for 500. his avatar was a (bad) section of a civil engineering project in cad ; and he assured me that he has experience and can build any housing to my specification.
mircea_popescu: because they won't as much as fucking read the text, you understand, and then come back with "what is the problem friend".
mircea_popescu: accounts won't fix that. in fact, ENTERTAINING the stupidity, to any degree, is not only not fixing it, but outright causing it.
Framedragger: that sounds like a ridiculously hopeless platform / social 'network'
mircea_popescu: just like anything but a basebat whack to the crying kid is a bad move. and certainyl giving him sugar packets for crying is not any sort of solution.
Framedragger: folks have had much better experiences with peopleperhour, just fyi
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's a reason the web keeps right on failing.
Framedragger: i don't want to argue regarding the general structural hopelessness of the web because you will win that argument / i agree with you :)
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's even a blenderartists thing, which supposedly is actually good.
Framedragger: heh, maybe the "confusing blender UI [at first, anyway]" filter is a filter after all :P
mircea_popescu: doing this as such is slated, for a little later. but since i was on fiverr anyway from the article, well...
mircea_popescu: there was an episode but i think from before your time when i even tried to support blender. it blew up spectacularily.
mircea_popescu is not terribly keen on this "by the hour" thing, it gives the wrong incentives.
Framedragger: well, to be fair, 1) the system shows people's portfolios and reviews etc, and 2) you can set a project price, the whole 'hourly billing' is only one of the options
mircea_popescu: we were also going to have a republican this, so all my expenditure would be used reflectively to strengthen us, rather than you know, support ineptly named items not run by wot people.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: curious - harder in terms of management, or in terms of technical implementation, or combination thereof?
Framedragger: i guess could be done manually for small (< $dumbars_n) webs of trust. with billing templates / gpg contracts, etc.
mircea_popescu: the long story is like this : that the world is made of friction. this is necessarily, and evident from the fact that it's still here (if self-limitation wasn't a default property of all things, the world would have long exploded). meanwhile the republic is made of few people, and also evident from definition - selective means minority. now add these things together : every project suffers from low power and high friction.
mircea_popescu: so, why doesn't $item exist ? because the $guy that's a) intelligent enough to do it and b) dedicated enough to toil through however long it takes to get $item off ground hasn'rt come forward yet.
trinque is toiling on this very one
trinque: the payments thinger shall have a way of invoicing someone
trinque: this morning's conversation has me thinking over how to do this without accounts
☟︎ Framedragger: pgp keys? not that this constitutes an entire solution
Framedragger: unless you deem pgp key in this instance to also be an 'account/
mircea_popescu: there's on top of that also the question of tooling. consider : had i pushed hard on this three years ago when it first came around (and pankake tried to make it) we'd have ended up with non-v software. that'd have sucked ; but at the time i didn't know what exactly v is. trinque brings a solid related point : infrastructure. just like tooling.
mircea_popescu: so you know, "why aren't there monkeys on this planet ?" "well, partly because life is hard, and partly because there's not yet the livers sufficiently advanced to support a monkey's lifestyle"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's little doubt in my mind that this particular "problem" (more properly class of problems, likely) is ill posed.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: re. bdsm board, sure it could be, the latter, as i understood it, would be a general e2e encrypted forum board (permanent post) solution with signatures etc.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-02 18:30 mircea_popescu: Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations competent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or what
mircea_popescu: the republic lives off tooling and infrastructure, and what is tooling and infrastructure develops out of you know, lived life. as a matter of necessity this can't be aforestated in its entirety.
Framedragger: ...instead of, say, looking for intelligent motivated folk? not that i know how to do the latter. /me interrupts
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the thing with the posters was simply "feed the artist while also doing something". that something happened to be "check this guy's claims". very similar, come to think about it, to this usecase here with fiverr.
mircea_popescu: and yes - very similar with bitcointalk eulora thing also. imagine this, MILLIONS of fly eyes, not a single one was capable of figuring out stuff explained plainly in documentation and coversation. but a few tried to defraud.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how would anyone ever argue in favour of the foss delusion. the data's pretty clear.
mircea_popescu: i'm not terribly optimistic of that "healthy attachment" in the general form.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger do you know what motivates them there, principally ?
mircea_popescu: no argument. but people were not by and large capable of healthy attachment at any point known from extant record.
Framedragger: there, as in say, in the challenge in question? i would imagine, curiosity, and a deeper need to do something smart and meaningful, and hoping that the people organizing this give such an opportunity. and folx are willing to spend many hours pursuing that.
mircea_popescu: the attractor is the futility. the plain and unescapable certainty that if they succeed NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. the point about "yes white racism exists - it's white people hating themselves" isn't just some superficial flurry of rhetoric. it informs the deepest recesses of subconscious thought and minute behaviour, "if nothing happens then nothing bad can happen" is not just why sane kid chooses for himself "a goivernment job"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: or just why intelligent motivated person looks for way to cicada rather than way to blow up the new york times building/
mircea_popescu: so yes - more friction, the republic is all about "if you succeed things happen". this is poisonous, to the modern mind.
Framedragger: so if tmsr did something like that cicada challenge, with a properly formulated marketing strategy, maybe motivated people would turn up. i haven't seen an honest marketing attempt by republican folk, but then, i've probably not seen enough.
mircea_popescu: but tmsr will never do something like the cicada challenge.
Framedragger: i've seen attempts to post on bitcointalk, with the psychological safety of knowing that if it fails, "well it's shitty redditard forums anyway, who cares"
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: marketing all of that requires a different skillset from being able to formulate puzzles, tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's the excuse du jour for the contemporaneous pothead. the gwern, the guy who "really believed in wikipedia", the guy who "really believed in ted talks" and "fucking loved sicence" and so on. the kid who is "investigating child pornizzerias in wash dc" via 4chan and "visual thinking"
mircea_popescu: and no, it requires no skill, it requires a specific representation to be believably made. that "nothing will happen". i can't make that, nor do i wish to (these two are related).
Framedragger: good luck with the whole recruiting thing. /sad
mircea_popescu: Framedragger woulja care to go into detail or is it too depressing ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i'm off home from work. will try to formulate sth constructive later
mircea_popescu: do you understand the objection though, or is it just so much nonsense ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: objection against current republic outlook, or objection against being all snore-ful and despiseful while at the same time grumbling about republican efforts being slow and the republic being poor? :)
trinque: this cute glib thing jurov was doing earlier, stop.
trinque: this idea of marketing with some bait and switch proceeds directly to a bunch of "fuck you, I'm just here to ..."
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 16:53 mircea_popescu: the attractor is the futility. the plain and unescapable certainty that if they succeed NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. the point about "yes white racism exists - it's white people hating themselves" isn't just some superficial flurry of rhetoric. it informs the deepest recesses of subconscious thought and minute behaviour, "if nothing happens then nothing bad can happen" is not just why sane kid chooses for himself "a goivernment job"
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger objection against the "we'll do a cicada thing".
mircea_popescu: but it is reassuring to see that a century later, the menshevik-bolshevik debate is all happily chugging along.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i suppose the intimate history of red radicalism is only familiar to dedicated entomologists.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i still believe it's "no matter what happens, wow will not tell me anything about myself."
mircea_popescu: the "value" is that it has nothing to say ; from a certain perspective this makes sense.
mircea_popescu: see, you lose. i "have a history" of rape and terrorism. 1-0.
mircea_popescu: the graph is walked backwards. they say what the audience expects. not schooled in any facts, it's all "consensus building"
mircea_popescu: the part where this is necessarily self-limiting, and always ends an "inexplicable hillary defeat" is out of their horizon.
mircea_popescu: even the quoted statement is a disguised tautology. "don't herd with the guy that's not herding with the herd." hurr durr, i totally needed a degree in something of the other studies to figure this much out!
deedbot: waffle_ voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: Ironically, an individual with the name waffle_ shows up blue in my client.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 08:50 jurov: i just threw my hands in disgust and use electrum. negrate as you wish.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 12:01 mircea_popescu: read more like "i'm not smart enough for this one, try next door" to me :)
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 12:27 jurov: what does electrum do? enables one to accept payments without having "mismatched amounts are kept" sinkhole in the foyer, which ben_vulpes seem to be too fond of.
ben_vulpes: obviously it weakens the automatability of your processing to open up a hole for contesting deposits
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 16:39 trinque: this morning's conversation has me thinking over how to do this without accounts
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569826 << meanwhile read the source. phoronix forum lel. anyway - funnily enough, and predictably enough the dude plays the "commentary supersedes reality" game, and purports to handwave the... what is it, 1.5k cracked moduli with loose discussion of a coupla imaginary examples he came up with on the spot, notwithstanding that after all the whole fucking thing is published.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 17:49 asciilifeform: ( in related 'news', phuctor 'fan' :
https://archive.is/dQFvt >> 'Oh, the Phuctor guy. Ignore him, he has a history of spreading FUD about PGP being horribly broken and accusing anyone who corrects him of being part of some elaborate cover-up (and in at least one case, threatening to contact the university of the person who did so. ' )
mircea_popescu: but he talks to the postmodern crowd, that's drowned in information it can't process. the same "public opinion" which snowden imagined will cause some sort of equivalent reaction to nuclear holocaust only bigger through publishing his data ; but then turned out to fizzle (exactly like the nukes)
mircea_popescu: never fear the FEARFUL!!!1 by consensus, what's awesome by everyone's agreement is always the magical wizard of oz, a hunchback old codger behind a mirror.
mircea_popescu: it's a very interesting paradoxical effect this, from either a cultural anthropology or a gnoseology angle, that when deluged with first hand data the human brain reacts by secreting and seeking out... commentary, which is to say spurious text that's not even data.
mircea_popescu: the model for the situation is roughly speaking that of a man caught in a prison made out of cooked meat, walls so thick he can't physically eat his way through - and his reaction is to raise cattle to make sausage.
mircea_popescu: AND, observably, the recipes slowly diverge - it was 1 part wall meat to 3 parts cattle meat years ago, but by now it's 1 to 10 or elss
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even, it's more a matter of "but the wall meat is pink and his meat is purple. purple is better"
mircea_popescu: there's nothing substantively making the data less comprehensible than the commentary. on the contrary, if you had to write a parser it'd be easier to write it for the data - the commentary is baseless and as such incomprehensible through sheer variance.
mircea_popescu: hence the whole "i want time magazine to tell me how the shutdown relates to me" ie, "i don't want any data (ie, anything about objective reality, outside) i just want commentary, entirely baseless if possible."
mircea_popescu: hence why any "discussion" of the global warming scam by the proponents starts and ends with a litany of... all the proponents that agree with this proponent.
mircea_popescu: apparently if i have a billion datapoints and a billion idiots who can't, individually, evaluate a thousand data points, the solution is to create a list of all the thousand trillion "evaluations" of each data point by each idiot, and then list those. because why deal with a billion when i could deal with a thousand trillion.
mircea_popescu: then let's make "all of them agree" and suddenly - problem solved!
mircea_popescu: no, the more i think about it, the more this makes sense.
mircea_popescu: "rather than have you evaluate 1bn datapoints, how about i send you the number 4 a thousand trillion times*"
mircea_popescu: * = or until your connection floods and you turn it off.
mircea_popescu: in the end, the only difference between us and them is that we're not particularly impressed with the notion of "bn datapoints!!1" because whatever, i'll just cat/grep them. their computer only has notepad and it can't load bn line files.
mircea_popescu: which explains why "a fascination with the complexity of universe" or similar blabla is so predictive of idiocy (call it iyi, jewry, whatever) : the dude who goes "i fucking love science!!1" in response to artist's renditions of galaxies has a very low tolerance to complexity.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: scrap 'drafted in' line and jam it into deedbot?
ben_vulpes: longest potential horizon wager in tmsr~ yet?
trinque watched a vid of his new floating stage today
trinque: it is certainly one louder than ten.
mircea_popescu: 2021 ? you folks'd better provision, there's literally no telling what a bitcent means in four years
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 17:39 mircea_popescu: but it is reassuring to see that a century later, the menshevik-bolshevik debate is all happily chugging along.
Framedragger: "The third period, as we have seen, was prepared in 1897 and [...] was a period of disunity, dissolution, and vacillation. [...] by way of summing up what has been expounded above, we may meet the question, What is to be done? with the brief reply: Put an End to the Third Period."
Framedragger: (hm, looks lamer when put as an irc line, i'faith.)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: regarding the "let's do cicada" objection - there probably are several angles which one could counter with - is the main one basically what trinque said, i.e., it's a form of (dishonest, to boot) bait-and-switch, which selects for some $random_criterion and the latter may not at all translate into what's actually useful?
mircea_popescu: well, no. the objection is, in nucet, that you've not so far proposed a bridge over the gap of "the republic is about empowering people to matter in the world and the redditardisms are about assuring cattle that their play will have no consequences"
mircea_popescu: yeah. in different terms, if you run a shop selling denim overalls for farmers and miners and notice that this magazine sells (quite lucratively!) chiffon dresses to boston ladies,
mircea_popescu: you can't simply take the pages out, photograph the miners in boudoir interiors and overwrite them with "IT LIFTS! AND IT SEPARATES!"
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
Framedragger: you know, i wonder how postgresql has managed not to die, and to remain, as far as i can see it, a quality product still. both in terms of codebase, and in terms of the set of maintainers and current engineers. probably very strict selection criteria, very strong people in the initial set (funded by / researchers at .su technical uni etc)
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: you're going to have to give "web can now be a thing" a bit more detail
Framedragger: they invite student interns to write stuff, too, and afaik it's high quality, too. again, just good selection i guess. but also - interest to participate.
trinque: Framedragger: it has a couple of paid consulting firms driving it though
trinque: iirc 4th quadrant, some others
mircea_popescu: Framedragger if you want to write a monograph on that topic i'd read.
gabriel_laddel: ^ patch the lastest CL-FTP with that ftp.lisp and it'll work
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel is this cl-fpt an apache replacement then ?
gabriel_laddel: The web is nothing more than networked graphics. CLIM supplies graphics, but no networking.
gabriel_laddel: An existing CLIM application, BEIRC works with IRC just fine.
gabriel_laddel: The way this will work: an invite-only IRC channel with a +v voice model is used to send s-expression strings between networked CLIM applications.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: noted. (that's actually a problem i'm always easy to be set off on a stupid rant, but it's harder to be constructive etc. not that this is a unique trait. and there's a superficial connection to the whole rant-y nature of things, that is:
Framedragger: asciilifeform linked to that phoronix thread, and there were in point of fact good replies on that thread, who acknowledged significance of phuctor, but of course asciilifeform chose to focus on the stupid kiddos there.)
gabriel_laddel: IRC has some limits on sending files and whatnot, so well-formed sexprs will be used to name FTP servers which you can download files and such from.
gabriel_laddel: ^ exactly. then we just wait for someone to get annoyed enough with the backend that they swap it out with gossipd.
gabriel_laddel: ascii confessed to having a 90% complete version months ago.
mircea_popescu: so basically, you're talking about a client stack on which a browser-like could be stood up ?
mircea_popescu: tmsr-web as in, not replacing apache, replacing mozillachrome ?
trinque: why irc when you could just have some simple socket server
trinque has plenty of those sitting around in lisp
gabriel_laddel: trinque: because I've had issues with sockets in lisp every single time I've used them, whereas irc works fine every time.
Framedragger: (ideally, i would guess, it'd munch datagrams, too, because gossipd is to have no stateful connections of the tcp kind.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much a mistake. i was going to say something derisive about the % but then i passed.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: I cannot corroborate your experience
trinque: and if that were so legions of things in lisp would not work
gabriel_laddel: trinque: but the point is, swapping whatever backend out is easy. If you want sockets, fine, just switch. It isn't like programming CLIM is difficult.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so basically you can make lisp machines i can give out to hos ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski they seriously made that domain ? i thought was just bingo being memetic.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: anyways, the point of this scheme is that it can be implemented in all of a week for someone who has some spare compute sitting around (ie, not me right now)
gabriel_laddel: Rather than debating the fine points of gossipd, just implemented it and move on.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so it actually is ho-level complete replacement of ipad whatever, they can do on your item whatever they do, snapchat, whatsapp, whatever ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: We're talking about masamune I presume (which sure, isn't really separable from CLIM)?
mircea_popescu: check out the latest kardashian ass pics, do the yoga routine, cheezburger, foodporn, etc ?
mircea_popescu: well yes, from what i understood you've been trying to stand up a whole thing, from hardware ?
gabriel_laddel: anyways, no they can't use snapchat, whatsapp or any mobile applications, but yes, they can youtube, gmail, and all web stuff. There is an xterm available via the splash screen for those who need it.
gabriel_laddel: I may have to cancel your order because I cannot ship to Ar, but nevertheless.
gabriel_laddel: the shopify thing is just so I have something to point confused sillycon valley people to.
gabriel_laddel: I'm making ~300 per sale. ~300 for hardware, ~300 for install.
Framedragger: (wait there's an x220 with 'tablet' / screen-turning mode?)
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so how about you hop in a plane and bring me a coupla ? i'll buy you a steak even!
☟︎ Framedragger: i still don't understand how much of a browser replacement it is. interesting, tho. what does gabriel_laddel mean, "can gmail"? => can javascript?
mircea_popescu: oh, he doesn't actually have his key anymore does he ;/
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: listen, you gotta fix your infrastructure this is ridiculous already.
gabriel_laddel: the new comcast boxes are shit and I can't even connect to them from linux whatsoever.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: no passport, but that sounds like a plan.
mircea_popescu: this guy needs a girlfriend stat. preferably a ho that comprehends the points about infrastructure.
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: The browser, conkeror has all the same keybindings as emacs.
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: and it is integrated into the lisp environment via a socket connection.
gabriel_laddel: the lisp environment runs parenscript, so you can sorta-kinda drive it with CL.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger he's a fine example actually. has a fucking "shopify" thing because...well ? idiots want my cc. what's he to do, practically, "dude don't checkout with paypal but instead..."
gabriel_laddel: for some reason they can't comprehend things unless it comes on top of js/shopify/something familiar
mircea_popescu: yes, but as a more general thing, re earlier discussion. bitcoin has 0 infrastructure, just a bunch of dorkage.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "here's the shopify page, now it's legit to pay 700" ?
mircea_popescu: "i'll believe it when i see it with big font in rounded corners."
☟︎ Framedragger: trinque's invoice thing may come useful. but then, there's more space to bridge, such as the vast gap between person who wants to buy useful item and person spending coins from trb so can pay invoice....
gabriel_laddel: speaking of infrastructure, and the lack of it, one of you who isn't doing anything useful (eg, pete) should come out to CA and give me some boxes to work with.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger note that there isn't any serious "bitcoin invoicing" thing. you can have a "take customer;'s bitcoin and give me fiatola", there's 500x of those. there's NO "take customer's fiatola and give me btc"
gabriel_laddel: you are not getting any younger, and unless you want your healthcare running on intel/windows -- masamune is the only way forwards.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ties into (naive or not) hawala discussions, i guess...
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: also, apologies for not checking logs. the question naturally springs to mind, so to speak
gabriel_laddel: anyways, that's pretty much it. I fucking hate all the companies out here and won't capitulate == me has to sell masamune and do one-off jobs for cash.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how does this relate to having someone drive all the way from canada to hand you laptops ?
trinque: it's clear asciilifeform should've started a guild
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: 1. he can fly 2. he can do something useful for tsmr~ == get the CLIM-web thing up and running inbetween here and gossipd
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: possible to ship x220's to US for you? not that i'm committing as of now. there are nice refurbished ones here in UK
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wish i knew someone in san francisco who wasn't a bum.
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: the infrastructure needed is somewhere to put them though. I have machines sitting in stanford's graphics lab (cameras everywhere) that will eventually host the IRC channel, but have nowhere to put them that isn't USG.NSA.YC.
mircea_popescu: aaaand you can't rent a place because no bank accounts, amirite.
mircea_popescu: yes but this situation is not stable. either you get out of there or you get credit cards and whatnot.
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: if you want to do something useful, build the CLIM web I've described inbetween here and gossipd.
phf: gabriel_laddel: have you looked at closure?
mircea_popescu: fucking loony tunes collection over here. that guy doesn't trust anything or like anything ; that other guy wants to cook while running around the streets of mosul. isn't there anyone in this god damned republic that is sane ?
gabriel_laddel: phf: anyways, I only think we'll be using the browser as a tool to suck information out of into CLIM in the near future.
phf: well, yeah, i'm sure it bitrotted by now, but how much work is it to revive? i kind of have it in the back of my mind for the bright clim future..
gabriel_laddel: phf: the "bright CLIM future" doesn't have html/css/js/ any parsing at all in it.
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: i don't have much free time now, either. maybe end of next week, at this rate. re. CLIM web - any notes / writeup to help? as in, 20min of your time to save some hours of my time while helping you?
☟︎ trinque: mircea_popescu: he'll have a hundred bux for teh candy
phf: did they just drop you into the enemy planet without the mothership tether??
mircea_popescu: nah, there's the retiring kind and the executed kind of admiral.
☟︎ Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: fd at mkj dot lt , gpg fingerprint E2DF 986D 58A0 D387 6BA1 65FA CC05 10AA FD8A F4B7
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: you need an ssh account on a vps?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's unclear so far how this fellow can be helped, so if you come up with something...
mircea_popescu: apparently all he wants is coding support and the extant lisp curmudgeons disapprove of his (evidently adolescentine) technological choices.
deedbot: Gaboose voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: myeah. he does live in the ground 0 of the bomb of that though.
mircea_popescu: i literally know no one in sf who owns real estate it turns out. this is mindboggling, how the fuck can the land values be so high! fucking chinese own it all ? aliens ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: and you don't have a linux distro to sell.
phf: people that i know who own property in sf are of deep imperial alignment, they would be proper horrified of tmsr and its rhetoric
phf sold a handful of asterisk + sbcl boxes in the past
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i hear ya, i'm interested to take a peek at the thing, tho.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel make a corp already ; it's like fiddy bux, can be done online, then you can be the officer get bank accounts deposit cash get warehouse rented sleep there.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: this is all very time-convenient though. because : SEE Framedragger ? SEE ? how about now ? huh ? hm ?
☟︎ Framedragger: mircea_popescu: get a second point and draw a line, even
phf: presumably he doesn't have a key, because there's no openpgp implementation in common lisp...
mircea_popescu: from what i recall ended up with his previous life's shit impounded.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the republic isn't poor. but it is very fucking difficult to get proper leverage applied.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not even sure there's a better place to do something of the scale of "clim computer" than low security us jail.
gabriel_laddel: I've not generated a new one because it cannot be done securely due to nonsense in my life right now.
mircea_popescu: but ironically, YOU don't want to v until the code's done anyway and put it all in root. so...
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: sure, but I'd be generating a key on something that regularly connects to the internet.
gabriel_laddel: which whatever, can do this if it'd make stas happy until recovery.
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: why did you take gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html offline (just curious)? (it's still in google cache.) decided it'd be not as easy to commercialize? :p
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: the way I want people to get masamune is "have to know a guy"
gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: fuck participating in the usg web / github / CC economy etc.
☟︎☟︎ Framedragger: i guess #trilema helps with bootstrapping the WoT, so there's that
trinque: there is definitely some yoga chick to move in with in sf
mircea_popescu: which is the correct solution at his age ; hire a receptionist gf to handle the whole circus.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I even created a program to meet girls.. no dice thus yet.
☟︎ trinque: go to a yoga class and then talk to the teacher chick about how your chakras are all clogged or w/e
mircea_popescu: o wait, did we stumble on the problem ? gabriel_laddel are you like all socially shy and weird irl ?
gabriel_laddel: I have a CLIM application that has those photos + other photos of alcohol & cocaine.
phf: that's actually pretty cool, reminds me of the 60s mylar art..
Framedragger: asciilifeform: which is nice and all, but sounds too romanticized for my tastes. "be practical, get a gpg key on a machine that *is* connected to the net, and *later* get a proper one" is imho a sane approach at this point in time.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I then ask people if they want to participate in a psychology experiment, have them select their favorite 3 photos from the 22 I have.
phf: or rather gouache projections
gabriel_laddel: trinque: then inform them off the "Without explaining the images, they had shown the book to their patients and asked them to pick a favorite. Every single one of them chose their drug of dependence, with 100 percent accuracy. Even the secretary who only ever drank coffee chose caffeine."
gabriel_laddel: (have ~100 datapoints which includes hair color, eye color, ethnicity)
trinque: so the fitness function is having compatible addictions?
gabriel_laddel: I thought it was BS, but there appear to be some correlations.
gabriel_laddel: which is odd, because people with blue eyes are more likely to be alcoholics
gabriel_laddel: thereabouts. we shall see if these correlations hold up to ~5k.
trinque: someday the addiction matrix will align!
gabriel_laddel: all the women out here are involved in "social justice" bs.
trinque: california is pretty cancerous, yes
ben_vulpes: cant imagine life is still viable at 22 these days though
ben_vulpes: "omg its the only way to get unbrainwashed girlfriends"
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 22:00 gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: fuck participating in the usg web / github / CC economy etc.
Framedragger: " Achievements Identified and prototyped the first realistic solution to the education problem. " << nice
trinque: ben_vulpes: sjw zombies still wrecking the latte economy up there?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: it's not so bad. My life is actually pretty cool, just not found a suitable gf and can only spend so much time looking per day.
gabriel_laddel: I get to attend many more optics seminars than you all do.
ben_vulpes: trinque: they're noisy and have ~0 to do with anything
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel yes, but wouldja get yourself in a position where we can help you already ?
phf: i actually thought that was something mp made up before i checked again..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually the ftp repurposing is why i originally imagined he's got a web server replacement.
mircea_popescu: which, in passing let it be said, would be pretty fucking epic.
Framedragger:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570161 << i actually hate it that the emotional intensity of my frustration was much reduced by this timing! on the constructive side of things... how can one, well, streamline this? "we have the technology!!" maybe more loper-os / trilema education/outreach.. :)
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:55 mircea_popescu: this is all very time-convenient though. because : SEE Framedragger ? SEE ? how about now ? huh ? hm ?
mircea_popescu: in a sane country like say 1800s turkey we'd just go to the slave markets and buy the kids who washed their eyes in preference of their mouths.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's this phenomenon multiple people confessed to (inc, famously, pete_dushenski ) whereby trilema takes a while to read but then clicks. that while is months. getting someone to read it for months as a deliberate act seems beyond the feasible.
shinohai: I read trilema for months before I ever knocked on door @ irc
Framedragger: interestingly, i believe that i first discovered this insane asylum by reading loper-os (presumably same as gabriel_laddel). it appealed to me straight away because i could relate on a purely technical level (inasmuch as a youngling can 'relate', etc.) [also, registered nanotube's WoT key before mircea_popescu muaha]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: I have not seen adlai.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well you did rate me "old timer" at first :p
Framedragger: speaking of which, *of course* there's no working WoT visualizer right nao, right? ...
mircea_popescu: anyway, the prognosis for loper-entrants seems to be a lot worse than for trilema entrants. as gabriel_laddel points out, you're unhinged.
Framedragger: invoicing system would help here, too, aaand chicken and egg
mircea_popescu: Jan 12 03:30:26 * gribble gives voice to Framedragger <<
Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: currently UK. originally from LT. will prob be in latter during summer
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i checked when gpg keys were registered
mircea_popescu: Framedragger im not disputing the claim, just, now reading my otc logs with a highliught on your name lol
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Framedragger 2 at 2016/07/10 18:38:40 << Le ssh!
mircea_popescu: !!v 6D328D6DE858B9CA8291C29771C86BAC91D0BC1BC3DB7088619766E8B4B3B16
Framedragger: !!rate mircea_popescu 4 Look, I haven't made up my mind, but he is a very constructive terrorist.
Framedragger: bitcoin-otc paypal dealings aplenty and all that
Framedragger: i'm trying to recall, was he a grammar nazi a bit?
mircea_popescu: lol. yes, he was a grammer naxi correcteing ppls grammer 24/7
Framedragger: !!v 84F754743ECF4BBE14AD17AAA02AFE60E2C85E8A7C587FC6B090FC3E1CA13FFD
deedbot: Framedragger rated mircea_popescu 4 << Look, I haven't made up my mind, but he is a very constructive terrorist.
mircea_popescu: !!v 6D328D6DE858B9CA8291C29771C86BAC91D0BC1BC3DB7088619766E8B4B3B167
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of Framedragger from 2 to 4 << Really, he's ancient.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: btw, i later wasn't much in touch and didn't follow your fallout with nanotube much. maybe there's a trilema article tho?..
Framedragger: by "much in touch" i meant, didn't spend time on bitcoin-otc
Framedragger: ah - was the latter the whole story? if so, fair enough. stateful vs stateless, right?
mircea_popescu: well before that they did this stupid thing where they were going to have "standards" and whatnot ; with that rank imbecile gmaxwell in charge of "moderation".
Framedragger: ohyeeeeah. shitty mod. no disagreement there. right.
a111: 2016-11-08 <adlai> has been in polling stations, more than 100 people vote in 'cities'
mircea_popescu: anyway. basically, sjws staged a coup, got left behind, place kinda rotted away or w/e.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, those logs are instructive. much thanks
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 75*22 = 1650
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty sure search was always !# ; also !~ is shinohai 's bot not Framedragger
shinohai: Gotta update the google search because they rate-limit requests without an api token.
scriba: Hello, world! My uptime is 10 days, 21:12:23.
Framedragger: i proposed. bot for bots. up the metastack we go
mircea_popescu: maybe have !*daddy implemented across all of them ? "I am owned by ."
mircea_popescu: not sure i want to put this in standard, but if people implement then maybe.
Framedragger: well my bot at least tells you whose its daddy if you /msg scriba help :p
mircea_popescu: possibly better like that, seeing how not all bots will necessarily be voiced.
Framedragger: (oh wait, it doesn't actually mention daddy. will fix.)
jhvh1: I am owned by shinohai
mircea_popescu: so you know, add it in help output as a matter of best practice
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: it is actually nice to consider that all that paypal moneys i received for bitcoin in -otc were not chargeback'd. it's a nice feeling. but i suppose that's chiefly because 1) i hadn't done that many transactions, and 2) amounts were low...
Framedragger just got email from kraken "Security Advisory: Mobile Phones" wherein it says that, you know, wait, your mobile phone is actually not a super secure device. maybe be more careful. lols
mircea_popescu: Framedragger hey, i paid a grand via paypal for like 60 btc back in 2012. back then bitcoin was still enjoying the benefit of not having been popularized.
☟︎ shinohai uses aspell, which loves to replace that to my chagrin.
shinohai: Roger Ver's latest bribe attempt. Offering 25 BTC block rewards to Venezuelan miners just didn't work.
ben_vulpes: a) i dunno that georgians live in anything but b) who knows if it was even 'his'
ben_vulpes: protests now outside congress and not casa rosada so that mircea_popescu cannot debunk by stretching and walking outside
ben_vulpes: ahaha "a demonstrator disguised as santa clause gestures next to a christmas tree with signs demanding aid plans and reform bills"
mircea_popescu: gimmicky as per usual. cgt affair. really more in the vein of 7-800 ppls but w/e.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they're all excited because something or the other with paperwork, various union heads finally deflated their heads enough to fit in same room or such.
mircea_popescu: basically they're trying to get a "social emergency" declared, and have free money thrown at people "because they need it" somesuch.
mircea_popescu: needless to say, the most usg will ever collect on that is as many bullets as its agents can carry.
phf: asciilifeform: what was the thinkpad you were saying good "except the monitor", 80 something?
mircea_popescu: "the college debt is worse than you tihnk", aka girls being 2/3 overweight, living together, no degree after decade of "work" and obviously, all this paid for by promises that can't be kept.
mircea_popescu: apparently "independence" of this kind is an improvement over being naked in my dungeon. somehow.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:12 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski they seriously made that domain ? i thought was just bingo being memetic.
phf: i think i might have two of those, but both, if i recall, kept dying for mysterious reasons..
phf: rms famously uses cli emacs on getty, and starts x "from time to time when he needs to look at some pdfs", that he mostly prints, owing to infinite MIT staff printers