phf: "skilled and talented chosen over ny times writers and editors, is this the beginning of fashism?"
mircea_popescu: moar like the end of it.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, "i think this is the beginning of a biutiful fashism" as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1GUcxSqyo
BingoBoingo: The pete_dushenski anals of 2016 are detailed, but prolly missing something. 2016 seems to be banner year for republic.
mircea_popescu: kinda been going like that, 2015 > 2014 then 2016 > 2015
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-441925.txt
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/renzi-resigns-as-voters-reject-his-agenda-and-tell-brussels-vaffanculo-suggesting-future-italeave/ << Qntra - Renzi Resigns As Voters Reject His Agenda And Tell Brussels "Vaffanculo" Suggesting Future #Italeave
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: seen any of the hbo show 'westworld'?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes have not.
mircea_popescu: i've watched about a half hour of tv total since seinfeld.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck is va' fa'n culo spelled as one word with a double f ? cosi fan' tutte is not cosiffantutte ?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/тошно/#comment-117990 << in commentary to the recent and inexplicable fire in sf.
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-441992.txt
mircea_popescu: in other news/lulz, http://www.lincolnks.org/Housing.html << apparently a lot of places in kansas and around kansas that have this free housing plots giveaway thing
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
mircea_popescu: !!up walter__
deedbot: walter__ voiced for 30 minutes.
walter__: phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
mircea_popescu: !#s thinkpad
a111: 83 results for "thinkpad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thinkpad
mircea_popescu: ^ subject of some discussion, he didn't come up with it.
walter__: reading logs I found some mentions of exactly "2005" thinkpads but cannot see why
walter__: those are X32 and X41 according to thinkwiki
mircea_popescu: walter__ the 2005 was just a reference to something i mentioned, iirc in a discussion with asciilifeform ; it's not an exact date (fwiw i use ts etc). but the idea is - a laptop which runs with no binaries whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: which turns out to be a much higher bar than the general population realises, and experimentally reduces to the various thinkpads of the end of ibm / start of lenovo era.
mircea_popescu: famously rms claims to have been using one ; which claim was meanwhile experimentally falsified here.
walter__: if it's about Libreboot then the "last one" is X200 of 2008
walter__: although according to asciilifeform Libreboot can burn the machine
mircea_popescu: libreboot dun really work as advertised
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's what "2005" means in this context, "when lenovo got the brand".
walter__: makes sense, thanks
mircea_popescu: np.
walter__: my other guess was the idea was to hunt the last machine with a CPU without microcode updates
walter__: but that would be going even further back in history
mircea_popescu: those were probably pre-2000
mircea_popescu: aha
walter__: pre-2000, exactly
walter__: considering the horrible situation with x86 laptops I wonder if Asus C201 (again from the Libreboot compatibility list) is "the cure"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B674E2825B44E246236C59D5355D436337B35CD9F2730E1F37B0EBFF0962F8B4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
mircea_popescu: feel free to do some investigative work and report
mircea_popescu: in which vein, register a key first.
walter__: PGP? Where does one 'register'?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-27#1573643 << working example☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-27 23:41 DontCryRebuy: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Z9EM8/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: may want to de-__ your name first if you actually own "walter"
walter__: I don't. Too late to freenode short names party
mircea_popescu: no biggy.
mircea_popescu: also in which vein, see the discussion re busybox and the complete trb machine tmsr created for deployment on pogos (and the whole discussion with pogos) ; also perhaps of interest the failure to create a useful gentoo and so forth.
mircea_popescu: we really should systematize the "box verification" thing, with a view to actually certify hardware configurations.
mircea_popescu: afaik the pogo is to date the only tmsr-certified digital computer.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> why the fuck is va' fa'n culo spelled as one word with a double f ? cosi fan' tutte is not cosiffantutte ? << ty fxd
mircea_popescu: no no, it is CORRECTLY spelled with double f
mircea_popescu: i just don't grasp the logic is all.
BingoBoingo: copied fro Italian populist propaganda
BingoBoingo: 5 star movement
mircea_popescu: !!up walter
deedbot: walter voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: As seen https://it-it.facebook.com/Vaffanculo-Movimento-Cinque-Stelle-168525813302445/
walter: mindread :). Thanks for the links, I'll dig the logs for the topics
mircea_popescu: check it out, you weren't late to the party after all ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, register key, can then self-voice.
walter: no, 'walter' is registered. I need to come up with a sane available nick
mircea_popescu: normally freenote boots you off others' names.
mircea_popescu: i guess it must not have nick enforcing turned on
walter: and then somehow to generate a key _properly_
BingoBoingo: Freenode isn't deterministic enough to have a "normal" way of doing anything.
mircea_popescu: down with the patriarchy.
BingoBoingo: Up with the CasualBoner-Archy
BingoBoingo: More fathering, less fatherhood!
mircea_popescu: in which vein, /me watched a half hour of something last night, because i tried to do a christina applegate retrospective. holy shit that girl has been in all the shitty snl derivative crap. how do these idiots even live, how do they get out of bed ? that ben affleck imbecile, he's like baudoinia, blackening the walls of anywhere alcohol is customarily found. unfunny as cancer, stupid as broken shoelaces, ubiquitous as a sac
mircea_popescu: fungus.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this thing had drew barrymore playing a 31yo intern (who, of course, was also a stanford graduate, and worshipped the new york SENTINEL! under the pretense that the new york times is you know, more than http://trilema.com/2016/тошно/#comment-119992 ).
mircea_popescu: total fucking casual-boner-archy that thing, and utterly unwatchable. i used to mock romanians a decade ago as "o populatie cu mize mici" ie, a population with low stakes. but lawds have mercy, the hopes, aspirations, projects and projections of the contemporaneous ustard (stanford grad & waitress-journaho) barely cover a used bottlecap.
mircea_popescu: (alf would have liked this one, the rats live so closely packed they have cultural constructs re intramural participation in sexual congress - the woman is offended but subverts it as normalcy. OF FUCKING COURSE the "next door neighbour" would play music to go with our intimate discussions. this is soviet america and the walls are thin!)
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Brb, cutting wood
asciilifeform reads uniturd thread, wtf, barfamatic
asciilifeform: i can't believe you folx wasted whole hour on that
mircea_popescu: well after wasting a coupla hours off everyone, it finally went away.
asciilifeform: in other noose,
asciilifeform: [10649280.876256] tty_check_change: tty->pgrp == NULL!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at first it looked like possibly a stack smash somewhere in there.
asciilifeform: last time had this line on jan. 16th
asciilifeform: ahahaha that would be mighty lulzy.
mircea_popescu: ikr?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you care hurley removed that cca 2015.
mircea_popescu: [PATCH 1/3] tty: Combine SIGTTOU/SIGTTIN handling
asciilifeform to no one's great surprise, i imagine, has a somewhat dr.mengele kernel
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577731 << 1) they boot with 'linuxbios' sans blobs 2) no intel ME or other fritzchip☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 13:54 walter__: phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
asciilifeform: i will also add that buildable source code for circa-2005 (and possibly slightly later) 'ami'-brand bios actually leaked.
walter: wow
mircea_popescu: aha.
walter: where can I get it?
asciilifeform: walter: junkyard
walter: I mean the leaked bios source
asciilifeform: hmm...
mircea_popescu: iirc it was the uefi signing key that leaked
mircea_popescu: as in, you can replace their fw with your own
mircea_popescu: o no nm, whole orchestra :
mircea_popescu: http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw
mircea_popescu: http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw/CODE/
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ami.rar
mircea_popescu: even better.
asciilifeform: sha512 : d0dab859fed77c75087fc0ad012a521e81db59331fcea98373784f2be6b6aefdad2672735dd89a24c01a649ce8dd4e57097da2d96489fa9c1840795dd7374b41
asciilifeform: 13337w4r3z!111
mircea_popescu: anyway ; what i linked above is a period scrape of the original website (the way this leak worked was the whole pile was found on a poorly secured taiwan server of jetway) ; the mmnt.net site generally has all sorts of useful things.
asciilifeform: !!up walter
deedbot: walter voiced for 30 minutes.
walter: amazing
walter: if the source was distributed to various manufacturers then there are so many possible leak channels
mircea_popescu: which gives me the idea to email aygi.
asciilifeform: who's that
mircea_popescu: guy running the mmnt thing
mircea_popescu: russki iirc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577762 << gentoo is in the sad place where it is because of 'portage' (the thing that attempts to automagically download tarballs of source and build deps in the correct order) , and the decay of the entire ecosystem of buildables, which isn't strictly to do with gentoo per se☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 14:24 mircea_popescu: also in which vein, see the discussion re busybox and the complete trb machine tmsr created for deployment on pogos (and the whole discussion with pogos) ; also perhaps of interest the failure to create a useful gentoo and so forth.
asciilifeform: if you remove 'portage', you have, magic!111, working gentoo. but it is then ~same as just generic linux a la my pogo build.
asciilifeform: and not gentoo at all.
asciilifeform: it is not, for example, the fault of gentoo authors, that rms became a living mushroom and lifted not one finger to keep emacs from demanding dbus
walter: by 'linuxbios' sans blobs you mean Libreboot or something else?
mircea_popescu: no, linuxbios, it's a thing.
asciilifeform: walter: it is known as 'coreboot' today
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: walter: 'libreboot' was/is a fork where some parasite stole and rebranded the thing
mircea_popescu: though with the whole "transsexual" derpage, i dunno how much anyone cares.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: coreboot, last i saw, largely consists of some sad folks sitting and being sad, because it works on 0 cpus presently sold, and on account of quite deliberate sabotage by intel and amd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.mmnt.ru/ << ftp indexer/searcher. not entirely useless.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, like the old finnish ftp search
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: you can find surprising things even today by scanning for ftp
mircea_popescu: actually from the period also, iirc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're telling me ? i was in the phuctor team that found weak ssh keys back in my youth!
mircea_popescu: i'll have you know, mr.!
asciilifeform: lol aha!
mircea_popescu: kids today i swear.
mircea_popescu: http://www.cxemateka.ru/ << o look, there's also a schematics dump
mircea_popescu: may want to mirror.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577731 << also 2005 (if you search the logs knowing what you're looking for) is a stand in for "decade of tail end of somewhat sane computing". linux on desktop hasn't wrecked the ecosystem yet, apple is selling unix boxes (and not phones), ibm is selling professional laptops, no reddit, no smartphone culture, no facebook, etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 13:54 walter__: phf, what's special about 2005 ThinkPads?
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cxemateka seems to host a bunch of winblowz driver rubbish ?
asciilifeform: i see 0 schematics
mircea_popescu: you're right huh. i guess my russian is a little... approximative.
walter: cannot download anything from http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.jetway.com.tw/CODE/ because it links to the original FTP server
phf: was also sort of a lul after adjustment and recovery from the eternal september, i.e. aol of '96 and yahoo of '99. i think we are now in the aftermath of the second wave of the eternal september
asciilifeform: '3rd wave' will be when they get subsaharan africa on the net via 'google translate', perhaps
phf: which happened when people born close or on 1990 became sufficiently aware to start wrecking havoc around 2015 or so, outside of their 2005 ghettos (like myspace, etc.)
asciilifeform: or farm animals.
mircea_popescu: meh. this whole thing looks like it was gutted meanwhile.
mircea_popescu: dude...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik this thing was exactly like finnish ftp search
asciilifeform: i.e. it did not cache files, just linked
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit.
asciilifeform: (caching was cost-prohibitive)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am pretty sure that the one actually had cache and the other had more than a dozen items last i looked. but that was a while ago.
mircea_popescu: anyway, sorry about it, what can i say.
asciilifeform: if there was such a thing, asciilifeform never saw it
asciilifeform: but lol, why didja think i posted the ami.rar.
asciilifeform: it's the whole thing iirc.
walter: btw thanks for the ami.rar. The hash matches, although it hangs my unpacker. Looking.
mircea_popescu: also could we use gz like sane people and wtf is this rar bs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was as-found.
mircea_popescu: yes i know scene friendly, but rar was a fucking stupid idea even in oslo 1990.
asciilifeform: for all i know, d00d specifically wants the attempted infector in that rar!!111
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577727 << this is actually not uncommon in usa. the catch is that typically such 'freebies' come with encumberments.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 12:52 mircea_popescu: in other news/lulz, http://www.lincolnks.org/Housing.html << apparently a lot of places in kansas and around kansas that have this free housing plots giveaway thing
walter: so what is 'coreboot' sans blobs, if not Libreboot? Any competing projects?
asciilifeform: (can't sell before x years, can't resell for > 1.something * what you bought for, can't build >1 story, etc)
mircea_popescu: honest toil and honest cunning.
asciilifeform: walter: what is your kitchen sink minus last night's coffee grounds ? is it identical to mine ?
walter: em.. sorry? A working kitchen sink?
mircea_popescu: walter the scheme here proposed is that a project (linuxbios) which was useful on account of actually having drivers for extant hardware was killed by hardware maker conspiracy. on its now useless ruins, as it's dead, an idiot with a "sexual identity" political agenda tried to build a grassroot activism thing called libreboot ; and some unrelated packrats with a penchant for software try to build a cluttered warehouse called
mircea_popescu: coreboot.
mircea_popescu: none of the three items are functional for the stated reasons.
asciilifeform: walter: afaik the last chip that worked 100% correctly on 'coreboot' was amd G-series 'APU'.
asciilifeform: it is theoretically still in production, but every vendor i know of will attempt to bait-and-switch and spuriously substitute the 2015-and-post revision that will NOT.
asciilifeform: see thread:
asciilifeform: !#s apu2
a111: 16 results for "apu2", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=apu2
asciilifeform: !#s gizmoboard
a111: 0 results for "gizmoboard", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gizmoboard
asciilifeform: hm
mircea_popescu: you want
mircea_popescu: !#s "gizmo"
a111: 350 results for "\"gizmo\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22gizmo%22
mircea_popescu: cuz "gizmo1" and bs.
asciilifeform: partly, yes.
mircea_popescu: aha.
walter: thanks for explainig. So it's even worse than I thought.
asciilifeform: anyway there were two and afaik exactly two makers of pc-compatible boards with the last, magical, amd g-series, and shipped full schematics.
asciilifeform: 'pcengines apu1'
asciilifeform: and 'gizmo-board'
asciilifeform: (forget who made the latter)
walter: pcengines! Seen one box personally
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's been 2.0'd meanwhile : http://www.gizmosphere.org/
asciilifeform: apu2 also theoretically boots with coreboot (there is no, incidentally, any other kind of bios available for it ) but it has a fritz chip and you cannot switch it off
mircea_popescu: is it localized ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have that one in the room where i am now, it actually has the working cpu
mircea_popescu would pay for an apu2 board to be destroyed if anyone wants to drill the fritz and report what happens.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what means 'localized' ? it's the usual nsa core on cpu die
asciilifeform: !!up walter
deedbot: walter voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: as in do you know where to drill
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd have to drill with electron beam
asciilifeform: and somehow put the top layer back on after that...
mircea_popescu: meh.
asciilifeform: vlsi fritzchipping ftw!1111
mircea_popescu: incidentally, some sort of resonator "drill" bit for cpus would be good to have
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is commercially available
phf: acid?
asciilifeform: !#s ion beam
a111: 18 results for "ion beam", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ion%20beam
asciilifeform: they are used by well-funded reversers to do equiv. of 'cut this-here wire'
phf: aah
asciilifeform: and have been available for long enough that chip makers began, long ago, to bury 'interesting' wires under layers
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: when 'moore's law' finally croaked, they switched to 'improvements' like this.
mircea_popescu: yes but the laws of the universe guarantee this can not be done well.
mircea_popescu: whether it can be done well enough is another matter of course.
asciilifeform: depends what means 'done well enough'
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: if you want to reverse the chip, theoretically 10,000,001 units of same chip and a microtome, is enough
mircea_popescu: no i mean, the "hiding" can't be done well.
asciilifeform: the mechanism in question here isn't even hidden, we know the rsa pubkey
asciilifeform: it is even in phuctor...
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577712 << this is potentially neat☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-04 23:38 mats: oops, this is actually the one i was looking at https://m.alibaba.com/product/60555752827/ESP8266-ESP8266EX-Wifi-Chip-with-SDIO.html?spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.5.p7nmiv
asciilifeform: anyone here -- bought ?
asciilifeform: mats ?
walter: fchipsource@outlook.com looks promising
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577566 << quite possibly his /dev/random is connected to keyboard noise etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-04 11:46 jurov: ben_vulpes what is that? You were dumping /dev/random for 48 days straight and got only 8MB data?
asciilifeform: so -- mega-unsurprise
asciilifeform: the folx who got 100MB/sec from /dev/random were the mac people, and it leads me to suspect that theirs is in fact == to /dev/urandom
asciilifeform: if on hardware level
asciilifeform: (iirc it is connected straight to intel's RDRAND)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577526 << iirc if you were to actually measure OUTPUT horsepower on the shaft, the performance is about that of a steam engine...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-04 05:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.niquette.com/books/sophmag/bourke.htm << for the engine-vs-thermodynamics afficionados. you surely heard of the famous bourke engine (2 two-stokes placed in a cross, with a double scottish yoke driving the shaft).
asciilifeform: (and the thing vibrates and destroys anything you might mount it on)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, linked for historical lulz. nice description of how that went.
asciilifeform: it is rather like to say 'i will light match and convert energy of petrol to heat 100%)
asciilifeform: ^ that ain't an engine
asciilifeform: i collect stories like this, incidentally, because it is the #1 occupational hazard of inventing -- to 'fall in love with idea' and end up a sad basketcase, pons&fleischmanning your way into the bottle
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577534 << the petrol engine is not well impedance-matched with anything, even auto wheels on asphalt ! hence the 'hybrids' thing☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-04 06:08 mircea_popescu: the odd truth is that electric engines are much better at small and high loads. the combustion engine has it's niche, but it's strictly car sized.
asciilifeform: (which are exactly 'diesel-electric train' and submarine, but in miniature)
mircea_popescu: incidentally in physics calorimetry experiments are notorious for this "one crazy datapoint" presentation of experimental data ; so much so that ro unis taught defensive experimental physics skills on calorimetry.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: which illustrates the fundamental problem with "self taught" or otherwise ignorant practitioners - every single fucking kid with an undegraduate degree from ro would have told the idiots that "oh, calorimetry ? and you got an outlier ? lolzk."
mircea_popescu: but they... they went to utah or w/e the fuck, and so never actually went to school,
mircea_popescu: and so never actually got this passive "common trunk" "common sense" sort of knowledge about their chosen profession.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188842 << see also☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: or in the original greek, ὦ νέοι, ~ἀλλὰ μάχεσθε~ παρ’ ἀλλήλοισι μένοντες,
mircea_popescu: alliloisi fucking menontes, there's passive strength in the formation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'engine crackpots' such as they are found today, typically have not even heard of such a thing as calorimeter, because it is not sold in 'home despot'
asciilifeform: they measure with analogue amperemeter, etc.
asciilifeform: and unfailingly produce 'OVERUNITY!!111' lulz
mircea_popescu: the calorimeter incidentally is a fine illustration / symbol of science altogether.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, very far away, 'Autodesk will stop the sale of perpetual licences of all its software on January 31st, 2017. The purchase of new licences by both new and existing customers will only be available by subscription after that date. ... Why is Autodesk transitioning to subscription licences? Subscription licences offer customers a lower entry price, greater choice of tools and the ability to pay-as-you-go. With its shift a
asciilifeform: way from selling perpetual rights to use a specific version of software, Autodesk will continually innovate and improve products and supporting services that customers subscribe to, allowing access from multiple devices at any time, making them easier to deploy and manage, and reducing file compatibility issues.' ( http://damassets.autodesk.net/content/dam/autodesk/www/campaigns/mfg-perpetual/end-of-perpetual-customer-faqs.pdf )
mircea_popescu: ie, autodesk is about to go bankrupt.
asciilifeform: might already be
asciilifeform: though no shortage of printolade
asciilifeform: e.g., they bought (probably to annihilate) cadsoft, the maker of the ONE usable electronic cad proggy for linux
mircea_popescu: linux whores are notoriously cheap.
asciilifeform: (in case anyone 'missed the memo' : open sores cad is a sad, sad joke. and no, i dun care if this does not sit well with somebody. it is -- a fact.)
mircea_popescu: (and no - there are no whore exceptions. anyone involved in "open source" etc is a whore.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cadsoft was a 1990s-style traditional software co., nothing open about it
asciilifeform: just happened to ship a linux binary, was all.
asciilifeform: (statically-linked)
asciilifeform: sorta like what i picture, e.g., eulora, looking like, if mircea_popescu sold it for money
asciilifeform: incidentally 'subscription license' also means 'forget airgap' in case it wasn't obvious
asciilifeform: in fact, we had thread a while back re: how certain industrial equipment is now also 'subscription-only', has satellite dish and gets fresh firmware from mothership each day etc.
mircea_popescu: i can't even recall who was in cadsoft prior to sale.
asciilifeform: cadsoft was a tiny german thing
asciilifeform: made a proggy called 'eagle cad'
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: apparently nobody knows key people/history for cadsoft computer gmbh
mircea_popescu: it may not have existed, alf!
phf: (cadsoft used to make EAGLE, which is sort of a goto cad tool for people on linux)
asciilifeform: iirc it itself was a holding co. and bought the proggy elsewhere.
mircea_popescu: no, i know. say names.
asciilifeform: long, long ago.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: phf: it is used for 100% of my designs.
asciilifeform: phf: i tried 'kikad', geda, etc. NONE OF THESE AUTOROUT FOR MOTHERCFUCKSSSAKE
asciilifeform: fucktards, for all of the man-hours on gui idiocy, SOMEONE could have implemented sane autorout?!
asciilifeform: but no.
phf: same, though i was told by experienced cad people "autorouting is trash" early on, but soon discovered that they mean "for the purposes of my giant multiboard layout" not "everything that you'll be touching for the next 10 years of your learning"
asciilifeform: it is trash in the sense that it is physically impossible to autorout 100% of board
asciilifeform: (np-complete)
mircea_popescu: autoruting beats hand routing much like google beats sedol.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: just, gotta put work in, and nobody wants to.
asciilifeform: it is meant to be a tool in the hands of a man, is not a man-replacing robotic thing
asciilifeform: power tool
mircea_popescu: because it is A LOT of work for something everyone decided is "a small matter" in advance.
asciilifeform: kikad is developed by, i decided, malicious tards
asciilifeform: who decided that it is somehow acceptable for schematic entry and pcb layout to be separated programs
asciilifeform: and for the outputs to be unsynchronized.
asciilifeform: and for the motherfucking gui to NOT REDRAW CORRECTLY ON LINUX unless PRESS REFRESH KEY!
asciilifeform: i shit thee not.
mircea_popescu: because that's a key ingredient of "i just want to" - deciding various arbitrary bits (especially ones the jwz doesn't well understand) are "small matter". which decision then drives poor resource allocation and is the deep reason for the festering morass of unsolved problems that should have been ; while tons of herbivores run around "revolutionizing" things that needn't on the shaky in reality but strong in perception found
mircea_popescu: ation of you know... all the "Solved problems" that aren't.
asciilifeform: aha, open-sores in 1 paragraph.
phf: asciilifeform: i thought maybe the design was some historic artifact, but no, none of the cads i looked at (including fucking cmu's NS, which is probably first or second cad in existence) had that split.
mircea_popescu: so you know, "autorouting" is "a small matter" and "a solved problem" except in reality it's exactly something to be solved via "artificial intelligence" as understood today, ie, mega-matrix of mostly 0 parameter running a markov process.
asciilifeform: classical 'a*' search
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: anyway - certainly a very valid place for any spinoza in attendance to apply his next years.
mircea_popescu: fror bonus points - steal google's go playing ai and modify it. the problem of routing is grid-discretizable.
asciilifeform: phf: i put in the sweat, actually learned to use geda, it is imho an acceptable design, and i found plenty of complicated items purportedly having been designed with it, but it is BROKEN, the autorouter blew open polygons
asciilifeform: so i have nfi, perhaps the published designs were made with megatonnes of compensatory undergrad sweat...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: google (or rather, the firm it bought) had 0 original ai. it was 1990s-era techniques, they simply licensed the code and threw iron at it
asciilifeform: INCIDENTALLY afaik the thing ~WAS~ a 'deepblue' scam
asciilifeform: other pro players have been indefinitely delaywanked when asked to play afaik.
asciilifeform: *when they asked
asciilifeform: ('deepblue scan' does not mean 'human committee played'... means that the playing was done the same way as asciilifeform does pcb autorouting.)
asciilifeform: *scam
mircea_popescu: be that as it may, the conceptual item solves two major open questions here in tmsr forum : a) "why is this proggy 100mb ?!?" "because it has 100mn datapoints in the ai massager, let it be" ; b) "why does this proggy want to call home ?" "because whenever you accept a design and put it in production, all other installations want to review the datapoint, it's valuable."
asciilifeform: if i wanted this kind of 'program', i'd buy a cow
asciilifeform: or rather, cow-sized amoeba turd
mircea_popescu: the problem of pcb routing will be solved by cow brains in jars or your own brain in jars. pick.
asciilifeform: nothx.
asciilifeform: right now it gets solved to my satisfaction on a modest pc box.
mircea_popescu: if it were satisfaction you wouldn't bitch now woudl you.
mircea_popescu: anyway. management considers the solution available no sort of solution.
asciilifeform: well, once one of us is locked in a room and fully reverses 'eagle', it's solved-solved.
mircea_popescu: i dunno eagle worked for large enough boards.
asciilifeform: well-cracked eagle works for arbitrary-sized boards
mircea_popescu: (recall your "array of fpgas" thing ?)
asciilifeform: and besides wtf you route them in SECTIONS
mircea_popescu: maybe.
asciilifeform: see, there is considerable 'violinist' work involved.
mircea_popescu: i think this is a pretty open question.
mircea_popescu: ie, how much and what kind of violonist is involved in the hardware making of future.
mircea_popescu: re wiring specifically.
asciilifeform: unless someone coughts up a p==np -- some.
mircea_popescu: no argument there.
mircea_popescu: will be some.
phf: also depends if we're still putting out massive interdependent designs, as opposed to some modular architectures like greenarrays or scheme81 or
asciilifeform: 'collectivist' cad that won't run on airgapped box or in martian death capsule, is a lol.
mircea_popescu: yes but the bitch is you can't actually know.
mircea_popescu: this isn't one of those "X is better".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a matter of "won't run". your gf runs in the bedroom just as well as woman runs in gangbang party.
mircea_popescu: except she won't be learning any new tricks.
asciilifeform: oblig here is y. kreinin's article on 'computers you can't program'
asciilifeform: 'do you want a comp or an electric best friend'
asciilifeform: !#s computers you can't program
a111: 6 results for "computers you can't program", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=computers%20you%20can't%20program
mircea_popescu: phf check out how that breaks ^
asciilifeform: btw the 'array of fpgas' thing is getting made, as soon as i'm satisfied that lattice 'ice' is ~actually~ reversed. and not simply 'kicad'-ed.
phf: erc also parses the url incorrectly, but ' is a valid character in url..
mircea_popescu: i think at some point you signed up for pain.
mircea_popescu: anyway at some point drop the link to the actual yosefk article you wanted to reference asciilifeform .
phf: i believe that was around the time i started reading asciilifeform
asciilifeform: oh yes, it was misnamed article,
mircea_popescu: fwiw, while ' may be valid, trilema's title-to-url parser helpfully nukes it.
asciilifeform: http://yosefk.com/blog/high-level-cpu-follow-up.html
mircea_popescu: (or in other words - the notion that unicode invented shitsoup is nonsense ; we had idiots before we had water pistol glyphs)
mircea_popescu: and btw, today was an epic log day. everyone's in great form apparently. monday people.
asciilifeform: https://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/988.php << recent lul by same author
asciilifeform: ( https://archive.is/L25Vc )
asciilifeform: '$100 says your DRAM chip works. The DRAM chip is a mindless slave implementing precise commands by the DRAM controller on the master chip, without any feedback - there are no retries, no negotiation, no way to say you're sorry. And no software will run properly on faulty DRAM. Faulty DRAM isn't a marketable product. Your board is definitely buggy. They told you they checked signal integrity, but they lied. If DRAM malfunctions, it's
asciilifeform: probably the board, or the boot code programming DRAM-related components in a way that doesn't work on this board.'
asciilifeform: 'A chip can have 2 processors with 8-byte buses each, going to a DRAM giving you 16 bytes per cycle, through a shared 8-byte-per-cycle bottleneck. This interconnect is the handiwork of some time-starved dude on the chip maker's team, armed with an interconnect-generating tool. Even such an idiotic issue will manifest on some benchmarks but not others, and might not get caught at design time. And if you think that is stupid, I've hear
asciilifeform: d of a level 2 cache which never actually cached anything, and this fact happily went unnoticed for a few months. '
mircea_popescu: you skipped the good part, which is : "If you are indeed a chip maker, this is when you find out why fabless chip companies are worth so much more than the equally fabless vendors of "IPs" such as CPUs and DRAM controllers.".
mircea_popescu: the probnlem of pricing in technology is indeed large.
asciilifeform: the 'konsoomer' wrecked the entire field, and it is not clear to asciilifeform that it can be unwrecked with current tech.
mircea_popescu: nor is it clear that without the konsoomer the field would be asciilifeform-accessible anymore than hillary's hairy snatch or the satellite launching programme.
asciilifeform: oh that part is screamingly obvious
mircea_popescu: bears a mention now an' again :[
mircea_popescu: :p i mean.
asciilifeform: i'll point out that konrad zuse built a very acceptable comp out of junk discarded by nazi germany, in mother's kitchen.
asciilifeform: but no one will play 'doom' on it, no.
mircea_popescu: myeah. oldest programming language too.
mircea_popescu: plankalkul.
asciilifeform: and as for asciilifeform , he had moar phun on sov 'mk-61' programmable calc, with ~100 bytes of volatile memory, than on pretty much anything since.
asciilifeform: re konsoomer, dan mocsny had analogy involving a pub, where the 'normal' folx mock the drunks, without realizing that the pub could not exist in anything like its present form without their open wallets
mircea_popescu: not so. it couldn't exist IN THAT STUPID CULTURE. but in better culture, kvas.
asciilifeform: well yes
mircea_popescu: and this is broadly the point - to transition to better culture.
asciilifeform: 'better culture' does not even have to be 'cpu costs as boeing'. can be, e.g., 'cpu costs as cessna'
mircea_popescu: it could be cpu costs a dime or a testicle, the issue of price is ulterior in this discussion, makes about as much sense as "the utilty of the sun"
asciilifeform: shorthand
mircea_popescu: sun preexists any definition of utility. yes shorthand, but shorthand for nonsense.
asciilifeform: for 'not financed by 100,000,001 idjits buying lolcatron for month's pay
mircea_popescu: it really is a null pointer reference.
asciilifeform: i disagree. if you remove the lolcat users, you get 10,000x unit cost. unless you have martian tech we'd all like to know about.
mircea_popescu: if you change the culture, none of your symbols in there are meaningful anymore.
asciilifeform: expand plox
mircea_popescu: let's work on the drunk dudes in pub construction.
mircea_popescu: in the english world, where drunks and pubs exist, and the observation re pubs existing because drunks, not because sunday drinkers holds, there are a number of objects defined, such as the fact that a pub is really a public house (which is relevant if for instance you wonder why it should need or want a permit to exist).
mircea_popescu: in the russian world, where drunks do exist, but the drinking place (which is NOT a pub, even if translated as such because what you gonna do) is supported by a social conventionthat has nothing to do with drunkedness
asciilifeform: ^ the charitable interpretation might be that some of its operating costs are externalized
asciilifeform: and yes.
mircea_popescu: the removal of drunks doesn't have anything to do whatsoever with "pubs" and also "a drunk" is not the same drunk.
mircea_popescu: so : if you change the convention, your objects become undefined. what's "a processor" ?
mircea_popescu: "the place where you drink" or "the public house" aka "brothel", ie, the place where disorderly (as per anglican/puritan definitions of order) is tolerated, ie, a tolerance house ?
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'martian tech we'd like to know about.' so, if mircea_popescu knows how to 'undo vlsi' and mass-manufacture individual transistors again, instead of cpu, and put'em together how he likes ~later~, and have result resemble pentium more than univac -- then, for instance, yes, cultural form
mircea_popescu: yes. but you also get a very different "cost"
mircea_popescu: importantly, one that can't be factored with the other one.
mircea_popescu has been on a "pricing in tech" mental kick for the past half hour, so i was looking at that angle.
mircea_popescu: it's a fucking large problem i'll tell you that.
asciilifeform: you get the cost of mircea_popescu's dinner. as per the thread. where 'idiot rube cannot buy mircea_popescu's dinner, prepared by enthusiastic harem, for any moneys'
mircea_popescu: i mean i've been toying with it in pieces such as "what's the tmsr gdp", which is very much exactly the same thing as discussion here, but anwyay.
mircea_popescu: (vaguely related, mp's grandmother once recounted the observation of one of her highschool classmates, who pointed out that they (the girls in school) should be more respectful of the prostitutes, because if it weren't for them (the prostitutes) none of them (the girls, in school) would be (girls, in school)."
mircea_popescu: this very neatly mirrors the pub, drunks observation, and for very much the same reason. the driver's the same oppressive attitude upstream.
asciilifeform: kreinin's piece is imho quite relevant, it is about the consequences of the ~wrong things being cheap~. and i cannot help but wonder if gutenberg did the same thing to the written word
mircea_popescu: and now, on the thread of this analytic approach, i may present the theory that the problem aren't the idiot consumers, but very specific opression of the english sort upstream.
asciilifeform is all ears
mircea_popescu: ie, "intellectual property", or a misplaced expectation of control.
mircea_popescu: once there's a "king", in the english tradition, who can do patently idiotic stuff such as require "bonded warehouses" (look it up) and "control trade" (please, do look it up) then "property" of a sort emerges. by contrast, in dutch world, where no such king and no such layered idiocy thereby, also property. but substantially different property.
asciilifeform: the english still demolished the dutch..
asciilifeform: what, dutch slipped on a banana ?
mircea_popescu: it can then be said that what exactly " brave Landeskinder sein" means is chiefly driven by what/who is "mein König und Held".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually the dutch demolished the english.
mircea_popescu: william became king.
mircea_popescu: (but there is also the case of the dutch raid when they literally burned down london - except in a strange case of premonitory japanese misbehaviour, failed to bomb the right thing. this is in the logs.)
asciilifeform: what was the permanent effect of this victory ?
mircea_popescu: there exists no permanent effect in nature.
asciilifeform very much expected this answer
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the point remains - it could be argued the actual driver for currently perceptible idiocy is not sin (ie, redditards, 1993 aol, etc) but apostasy (ie, "ip", british notions of what the crown may do to commerce, etc)
mircea_popescu: i dunno how familiar the reader is with early us colonial history - but the british uniquely pretended that all trade must go through british warehouses. in london. they kept laoding and unloading things. so they can be taxed. exactly like the notion that an imaginary "right" of someone to something may require me to do specific things. ie, the fritz chip.
mircea_popescu: but also ie, "rape". and so forth.
mircea_popescu: the whole perceptible structure of perceived reality, actually.
asciilifeform: all of this crud is thermonuke fallout from the so-called 'enlightenment' .
asciilifeform: very long half-life.
mircea_popescu: the simple notion that i shall read the string X as /y" rather than /z" because the entity labeled X "knows how their name is spelled", for instance, is exactly of the nature of "you must include X in your item because Y law" ; or of the "sexual harassment" ; or of ALL OTHER THINGS.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is not, because incredibly enough the french actually don't have these problems (but others)
asciilifeform: last i heard, 'the french' are blackening and eating Moar Kouskous
mircea_popescu: seems on the balance of things more likely to be fallout from the haphazard "quick, create an ideology to back up this dude's wan to get a new hussy"
asciilifeform: and will soon have 0 problems
asciilifeform: because 0 thefrench left
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: (it should be pointed out the french blackened many times before)
mircea_popescu: anyway, when i say "don't have these problems but others" i specifically mean as evident in sexual behaviour (cue that "scandal" when sarkozy took some random woman to random event and the london-based journo-hos had a collective aneurism and kept blathering about how they'll bus supporters over)
mircea_popescu: the dutch-british comparison is actually very apt and very instructive. two samples : at the time of their war with the united provinces, the dutch could outproduce the british about 6:1 ; at the time the tulip craze blew up, dutch courts told all aplicants "sfyl" quite literally.
mircea_popescu: ie, alligned with tmsr and generally righteousness ; rather than the "equitable" imperial idiocy then embodied in the brits.
asciilifeform: wai newyork in place of newamsterdam then ..?
mircea_popescu: i think it's actually a matter of sexual preference.
mircea_popescu: people preferred the indonesian whores to the iroquis whores.
mircea_popescu also doesn't think the bovine new world female, with the big face, ugly fat lips and tiny eyes is particularly attractive.
mircea_popescu: to insanely stretch comparison : it could be said the sovereign prince of orange was a sort of stalin to dewitt's lenin. yes, both soviets, but not very equal soviets - one somewhat cooler than the other ; and so the brits picked the one which was closest to their capacities and aspirations, which is to say the uncool one ; and similarly the products of the dutch republic split their energy - the shittier ones went to new yor
mircea_popescu: k and the rest to malacca. hence ~dutch~ east indies and british north america.
mircea_popescu: undefensible in its parts, this holds in summary a lot better than anyone'd expect.
asciilifeform: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unzip/+bug/1643750 << in other lulz.
asciilifeform: 'A buffer overflow occurs in zipinfo (part of the unzip package) when the compression method in the central directory file header is greater then 999'
mircea_popescu: i thought we already lolled at this
mircea_popescu: o wait. different... portion of code. ookay.
asciilifeform: aaaha.
asciilifeform: meanwhile on spam planet, https://archive.is/YxNQq >> 1 standard dnsoil ftw.
asciilifeform: 1 sc4mz0r to rule'em all, and in the darkness BIND'em, etc
mircea_popescu: in other lulz
mircea_popescu: !~google nonsuch palace
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Nonsuch Palace - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsuch_Palace>; Henry VIII's lost Nonsuch Palace recreated 300 years after it was ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050919/Henry-VIIIs-lost-Nonsuch-Palace-recreated-300-years-destroyed.html>; Nonsuch Palace - The Epsom and Ewell History Explorer Website: <http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/NonsuchPala
asciilifeform: 'about 43% of all ICANN-accredited registrars are now controlled by just one company.'
asciilifeform: lul
asciilifeform: from same rag: 'Statistics released today show that the .uk registry suspended 8,049 domains in the 12 months to October 31, compared to 3,889 in the year-ago period.
asciilifeform: It’s an almost tenfold increase on 2014, when just 948 domains were taken down.
asciilifeform: Nominet suspends domains when law enforcement agencies tell it the domains are being used in crime. No court order is required and Nominet rarely refuses a request.'
mircea_popescu: lolk
mircea_popescu: i have nfi who would be idiotic enough to use "country" domains like .uk (afaik you can't even do that, gotta get subdomaons off their holy site "co") or .ro etc.
mircea_popescu: what, countries on the internet ? seriously ?
mircea_popescu: what's next, support for national chicken scribblings ?
asciilifeform: i've monumentally nfi, why. possibly for historic reasons (not everybody is mpex and happy to have links die every 6 months)
asciilifeform finished, afaik, swapping all of the mpex links on nosuchlabs to new .biz
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577753 << both of'em, mikrotik 'RouterOS v6.35.2' >> i now say let's pronounce as in 'necrotic'.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 14:06 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F764EC5736FA3782A599FBBAE8F5867BD66D04EED4A2579F7282CE6453F80839 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...4719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown UA)
asciilifeform: first such we see in .ua iirc.
asciilifeform: where is it, the 5th floor of kiev's idiocy palace with the cia office ?!
asciilifeform: largely but not entirely unrelated,
asciilifeform: anybody here have occasion to ~actually run 'tor'~ lately ? it is hilarious in some new ways:
asciilifeform: for instance, it demands RDRANDtronic quantities ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577952 ) of rng, and -- if only finds a traditional linux /dev/random, the kind that weeps a few bytes/sec -- complains loudly...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 16:04 asciilifeform: the folx who got 100MB/sec from /dev/random were the mac people, and it leads me to suspect that theirs is in fact == to /dev/urandom
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/IdkiM << in other intel wonders, the reason your 'uberfast intuhnet' is laggy is becuase of 'high-priority maintenance tasks hogging the processor, causing latency to increase by at least 200ms' in the puma 6 (atom x86) equipped boxes, eg. Arris Surfboard SB6190, Hitron CGNV4, and Compal CH7465-LG
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 Start Height a success, will report results with African and further key imports later
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: l0l! x86 in modem?! laugh or cry ?
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/0MKcs << other lulz from same rag
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/vT63P << other other from same : "Microsoft is working on a patch for a bug or feature in Windows 10 that allowed access to the command line and, using a live Linux .ISO, made it possible steal BitLocker keys during OS updates. The command line interface bypasses BitLocker and permits access to local drives simply by tapping the Shift and F10 keys."
pete_dushenski: so it was an unseasonably balmy 0C here on saturday and now it feels like... -27C with wind and humidity. this is a Good Thing. feels more like xmas time when bundled up, drinking tea by the fire, shoveling walks, or driving slowly through the ice and snow.
pete_dushenski: http://www.medievalists.net/2016/11/30-medieval-texts-translated-2016/
pete_dushenski: ^ for those a bit behind on their http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-28#1574132☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-28 20:37 asciilifeform: history post-rome requires --- horrors! --- languages
mircea_popescu: is everyone ready for some google calc lulz ?
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2846 * 210 * 4.31 * 1.8 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2846 * 210 * 4.31 * 1.8 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5 = 5309782.079999999
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2846 * 180 * 4.31 * 2.1 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2846 * 180 * 4.31 * 2.1 + 7559 * 10 * 4.31 * 2 + 1000 * 4.31 * 5 = 5309782.08
asciilifeform: in other not-quite-noose, asciilifeform got a small thermovisor as bday gift, and it sorta worx, e.g., http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/thermo_shitter.jpg << shitter tank water clearly visible; http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/thermo_taps.jpg << hot vs cold taps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, were ua diddlomods before.
asciilifeform: *water tank level
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mikrotiks in usa. iirc these 2 were the first
asciilifeform: in ua
asciilifeform: (in usa - many)
mircea_popescu: ah ah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the tor enthusiasts will buy fuckgoats.
mircea_popescu: o wait.
asciilifeform: lel aha
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/12/05/the-sentiments-of-grass/ << Ossasepia - The Sentiments of Grass
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-442050.txt
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/a-collection-of-distinctions/#comment-119996 << mircea_popescu et al.
shinohai: In coindesk/coinbase delusions: http://archive.is/CTFwt
asciilifeform: shinohai: may 24 ??
asciilifeform: pre-nuke
shinohai: Sure I expect with that ~$6 price it has dropped to today has something to do with it