mats: (this is mildly relevant to the courts circus project)
mats: maybe bates had food poisoning and flushed a buncha times
phf: i for one am looking for to a gattaca future, where i have to hire a standin for myself. to run amazon echo and nest and facebook and all the other things like that so that there aren't any irregularities
mats: >... we discovered numerous devices that were used for "smart home" services, to include a "Nest" thermometer that is Wi-Fi connected and remotely controlled, a Honeywell alarm system that included door monitoring alarms and motion sensor in the living room, a wireless weather monitoring system outside on the back patio, and WeMo device in the garage area
mats: for remote-activated lighting purposes that had not been opened yet.
mircea_popescu: ^ recommended not just because of the 85 bitcents in prizes
ben_vulpes: tried to dial back the programmer-imposed unnecessary complexity
phf: that run is a bit weird
phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
☟︎☟︎ phf: also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
ben_vulpes: phf: ty, keep it coming if you don't mind, i must go async
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: naively, i expect gpg to exit 0 if the signature is good
ben_vulpes: that inspection is only performed on a bad exit code
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if you can get gpg to crash without exiting zero, i misunderstand much about how this world works
phf: i think it's actually related. otherwise he'd have to get-output-stream-string there again. all the folly starts with that weird run
adlai: !~later tell ben_vulpes see preceding message
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
☟︎☟︎☟︎ phf:
http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L68 you don't really want to use handler-bind here. you want h-b only when you're working with the whole restart machinery. (handler-case (let ...) (external-program-error (error) ...)) is equivalent of the try/catch that you're doing here
phf: also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
☟︎ phf: oh i guess you're checking process-exit-code again, even though you already caught an error for it. i think handler-bind is just confusing here. (handler-case (... t) (error (error) nil)) would've been much more obvious. "succeed and return t or fail and nil"
phf: heh, this is straight up rubyism
http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
☟︎ phf:
http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
☟︎☟︎ phf: also you don't want to concatenate paths, because that's how you end up losing separators and getting injection attacks and such. (merge-pathnames ...) will still work on strings, but will do the right thing
phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
☟︎☟︎ phf: the main folly are the unixisms all over the place. lisp works with a clear read/eval/print cycle. read means that you want to take outside input and convert it into a concrete data structure. so you shouldn't have a hash with strings in it. things like (string= "false" (gethash 'hash c)) should not happen so far down the call chain. your ~reader~ should convert the input data into a format that's easy to work with. the check could've
phf: been (if (not (hashed-path-hash c)) ...) because you ~reader~ should've already massaged it all into the kind of data computers understand. btcbase uses nil for empty hashes, you could have :empty or whatever, but certainly not carying strings and dictionaries all over the place.
phf: fwiw btcbase parses path component into a pathname, and the hash is (member nil bignum)
phf: so instead of doing subseqs you can just (pathname-path ...), you check for "false" by a simple null check, you check for hash equality with eql or =
phf: it's an "overkill" for a "unix script", because you throw all that data out anyway soon after constructing it. but in a lisp instance, when you already have all that data in the ~correct form~ you can start writing a dozen of different functions to analyze it, without getting bogged down on format trivia all over the place
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
mircea_popescu: "Obesity can be a disability in the EU. That makes it a sticky legal issue and given that she is the lone female, that makes it doubly so. If she's transgendered (which is possible given that she stands up apparently) then it's triply so. This is so intertwined in legal ramifications I can't imagine anything you can say or do (other than what you are already) that doesn't need a lawyer to make sure you don't end up in a suit.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck happened to "can her in front of the whole staff, in the terms that she may seek employment once she conquers the requirements for preschool ; and if she wants a recomendation letter this is going in the first paragraph."
mircea_popescu: "To whomever it may concern - I strongly advise against hiring the bearer of this letter, as she is not sufficiently qualified to take a piss."
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
ben_vulpes: adlai: wordpress, my friend. wordpress.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:58 phf: also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:25 phf: also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
ben_vulpes: but i may catastrophically misunderstand
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:34 phf: heh, this is straight up rubyism
http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
mircea_popescu: why's everyone always skip over venus ? mars is too hot ; the moon is too small. neither make any fucking sense.
mircea_popescu: other than well chosen jupiter satellites, venus is the ticket.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
ben_vulpes: that just means we need floating cities
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not responsible for bad engineering.
mircea_popescu: point is, there are expensive things and cheap things. compensating for a lack of atmosphere is fucking expensive. properly cooling is nothing compared.
mircea_popescu: we got all these global warming experts, they'll capture the co2 or something
ben_vulpes: brin mentioned a trick with endothermic lasers
mircea_popescu: btw, what's the latest in crackpottery re venus lack of magnetosphere ?
mircea_popescu: it does have volcanic activity, so it's not that. it DOES spin, though perhaps too slow.
phf: ben_vulpes: (if (search ...) (error ...) (what-happens-here???))
phf: oh oh i see what you're saying
ben_vulpes: i read "handler-case destroys the call stack" and thought to myself "if i can avoid that, i probably should".
phf: well, it's only interesting if you're going to restart, otherwise..
ben_vulpes: otherwise may as well nuke everything in the unrecoverable branch
phf: well, more important whose reporting the failure. if you want to pass through to the user the fact that there's a shell call out somewhere and it has all kinds of mechanisms. but verify should probably speak for itself in its own terms.
phf: but your bad-signature is an external-program-error, so the whole things is a swiss chese
ben_vulpes: i imagined an inheritance chain looking like error->external-program-error->{bad-signature, no-gpg-data, ...}
ben_vulpes: probably pointless complexity that could be snipped in favor of simple errors everywhere?
phf: no, that's no the issue, it's more like a complexity along arbitrary lines
phf: you have a set of (incomplete and adhoc, but there) crypto operations. they speak their own language. they can succeed, they can fail, but none of that has to do with "external programs". that's a different set of operations that deals with unix etc. that speaks its own language
ben_vulpes: so that there are a set of operations that just happen to be implemented with "external programs" is no reason their errors should inherit from "external program" errors
ben_vulpes: "swiss cheese" then meaning something like "notions are touching each other for no reason other than that's how the air bubbles formed"?
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: how do i know you're not running the longest and lowest-dough scam with these masamune boxen?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 04:25 ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
ben_vulpes: are you describing yourself or people you want to respond to whatever that was asciilifeform quoted?
gabriel_laddel_p: Incidentally, it is pronounced "maza-mune". Yes, yes, as you wrote is technically how they say it in japan, but it sounds stupid.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: it's a pun on moon hotels
phf: heh, i also pronounce it japanese style, ma-sa-mu-ne
ben_vulpes: i am epically confused, how else would it be pronounced
ben_vulpes: anyways, otaku gaijin shit aside a) do you have videos of this thing working or am i supposed to believe that it does because you now have a key you can use and b) how much for the whole circus, delivered
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: will be (figuring out how to, and then) sending you an encrypted gpg thingy tomorrow.
phf: also sbcl got some balls. they've been adding all this stuff, don't do this, don't do that. i suppose you can either muffle it, or just not optional the second argument and pass nil everytime there's nothing. fwiw your code always has an argument list, so it's non issue
ben_vulpes: well i'm just on tenterhooks waiting to learn what's so cryptworthy
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: I have 4 other people who want them/one. Need to organize my thoughts, stop reading about [redacted] and actually respond to their emails.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: to move fiat monies into republican coffers. You all get free reign to sell masamune and take 100% of profits past buying the first one.
gabriel_laddel_p: I don't want someone to be able to look up a webpage and debate you about what it is that they get.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: say that you derp around with MGL_MAT and make a neat handwriting recognition module like the HP Compaq TC1100 had.
mircea_popescu chuckles privately at all teh folk imparting phonetic content through frowning peculiarly at everyday alphabetic notation. oh mu-ne is it!
mircea_popescu: oh speaking of which, gabriel_laddel_p why not packaging fuckgoats with the masamunes ?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: someone's going to have to fuel the meth habit for another month to pop this one
mircea_popescu: dude he sold 4 boxes, if he makes enough for a decent meal out of that he's ahead of the game.
ben_vulpes: now if only i could find a graceful way to muffle compiler warnings for functions...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suspicion is unwarranted for the following reason : if he was aware he's packaging crap, he'd not be courting you ; or him. because unlike him you do have wwws. so either he's patently insane or else got something. in either case, a few hundy, not the end of the world. a decent escort is ~same.
ben_vulpes: why in the not gentooing your own boxes
ben_vulpes: and all the hours spent changing belts and capplugs
ben_vulpes: no i'm going to plug my ears say neener and make it gabriel_laddel's problem
mircea_popescu: the original proposition was "hooker-ready laptop". i can see the "value add".
☟︎ ben_vulpes: actually whole thing is likely just a ploy to get pre-rooted boxen into republican ops
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform masamune;d better be. ben_vulpes hey, find the hole, get a prize.
ben_vulpes: still gotta fuckin quarantine the thing when it shows up.
ben_vulpes: guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: i play at least 30 minutes 4 times a week
ben_vulpes: some 1.5 years back i leapt off the couch and demanded a hand-held instrument to awaken dormant pathways
ben_vulpes: so now i play guitar poorly and frequently
phf: deep purple covers on a loop?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: iirc the longest-enduring venus probe croaked after 1h. from overheat. << Or corrosion. Place requires ph balancing
phf: not enough reverb. i always thought baliset being a 70s instrument, considering that they had those portable source of energy in their shields, would be a kind of guitar moog
ben_vulpes: a shit i'm going to have to rewatch this.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aha and the isis men kept trying to fuck the goats :D
ben_vulpes: which brings me to: "when positional, and when keyword?"
BingoBoingo starting to think that mebbe Venus just needs a moon
phf: ben_vulpes: i think best way to answer that question is to read a lot of existing code from different backgrounds (pre-2000s code, famous people code, etc.). my rule of thumb is that you use optional if ~at call site~ it's still obvious what the argument means. otherwise you promote it to keywoard. (run "foo" `("-p" "bar")) makes sense, but (run "foo" `("-p" "bar") stream) you start guessing. is it input stream? is it output stream?
phf: in this case, if you want to avoid the warning and not fuck with muffling, i'd stick with (cmd args &key input). fwiw that's what sbcl's run-program does already
ben_vulpes: still means one has to (run "foo" `())
BingoBoingo wonders how many hamplanets need be flung into Venusuvian orbit in order to make a credible moon that spins that bitch around faster.
phf: yes, but you never do, also it's (run "foo" nil) or if you insist (run "foo" ()) though that last one looks funny
phf: you as in you in your code
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 916.4216, vol: 10049.25721374 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 882.63592, vol: 272.12183 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 943.6581, vol: 2498140.26720000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 909.012, vol: 9322.43803212 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.414513512
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 779.91696, vol: 10048.70134875 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 749.2434264, vol: 7648.73621 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 803.843997, vol: 2498327.20560000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 770.0, vol: 41.40903382 | Volume-weighted last average: 803.581896386
mats: !~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market bitstamp] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market bitstamp]
jhvh1: mats: 959.0 / 916.8999 = 1.045915699194645
mats: !~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market btcchina] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market btcchina]
jhvh1: mats: 989.763819 / 943.057407 = 1.0495265841223598
mats: betting on btcusd not going to 1k is turning out to be quite the nail biter
ben_vulpes: mats: what kinda timeframe are you biting your nails over?
mats: the bet settles on 01 january 2017
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 05:20 ben_vulpes: guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
davout: what do you need your nails for then? get yourself a pick or something
ben_vulpes: compulsive nail tidying is 2x as expensive if you do both hands
ben_vulpes: sounds like davout thinks "just trim your hands evenly, weirdo"
davout: i don't get it, the expensive part for me is "finding the nail clipper", not the "clipping nails"
davout: yeah, googled it, got "Reticulating splines | The Sims Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia", wtf levels increased :D
ben_vulpes: in retrospect, the expensive part is having mismatched nail lengths
ben_vulpes: i have utterly nfi how women put up with all of the ornamental crap
davout: go to the salon, get some other woman to do it for her
davout: on daddy's dime == win
ben_vulpes: my internal popesculator says "what, wimminz are for ornamenting!"
mats: i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
☟︎ ben_vulpes: mats: does 'mommy' typically hold the purse strings among yr people?
ben_vulpes: also are talking fathers, husbands, sugar daddies or 'beta buxx'?
mats: i mean, i grew up in sv, so i live in a weird in-between of us and cn culture
mats: i gtfo soon as i was an adult, to live outside of the reality bubble
mats: didn't turn out to be that different, the new money here is just young white dudes that wear brooks brothers instead of uniqlo
davout: "In addition to the headline finding, the study also discovered that the more women earn, the greater say they have over the family's financial management." <<< such finding
ben_vulpes: old money moderately interesting if you're trying to marry into it
ben_vulpes: dunno that's too far outside of teh bubb
mats: if i'm being honest i wanted to get away from the massive numbers of asians
ben_vulpes: well i was going to ask if you were in the boston cn wot
mats: but now i miss it, funny how that works
ben_vulpes: infinite easy payments of everything you make
ben_vulpes: cn reputation for 'tiger moms' among usasians
ben_vulpes: chinese moms control the purse strings
mats: there's a sense of other-ness wherever i'm at, in new england
mats: eyeballs on me all day when i'm on the cape
mats: its not as bad in the city
mats: i'd like to move to hk or tw before i'm 30 but it seems to be getting more expensive all the time
davout: mats: hows that specific to these places?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:39 phf:
http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
mats: davout: well, its actually getting cheaper to live in, say, sf or boston, in the short-term, due to high rises going up
mats: its not really specific to hk or tw, and tw is actually more affordable comparatively
mats: i mean luxury residences pushing prices down
mats: huh, upon closer inspection, it looks like rent and housing prices are declining in tw and hk too
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
jurov: use batchmode and just ignore stdout (unless you need it)
jurov: venus colonization is most feasible in the atmosphere, there's a layer with ~20C temperature, ~1atm pressure, breathable N2-O2 atmosphere is lifting gas, you can have 30hour days by surfing jet streams ...
jurov: ... and nice clouds of concentrated sulphuric acid :)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 07:39 mats: i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
diana_coman: !!v 8432836915E56942BC2E87B0D901EA7E5FF583F326FAD9D7810299020266FD8C
deedbot: diana_coman unrated Mafroz.
diana_coman: !!v 953696A41F310BFCB23DD04FFCAFFF6281F6AC68C19F8C592FEE502E519E283D
deedbot: diana_coman unrated Zakorus123.
diana_coman: !!v 239FBAC33E2DDE0241066C4E2651ED0683BA39EBC9B042A51B3F7391AA70104E
deedbot: diana_coman unrated bitnumus.
diana_coman: !!v 162C02F9A4391A31A310B11C4878EB6AED672679ABABBBCB7096083A7146E0F2
deedbot: diana_coman unrated bitbargain.
diana_coman: !!v 4DEC38CA63CDC19839DF0F87A1335BCA41AB5D58CA62F85C50F3899ACF6AFBCA
deedbot: diana_coman unrated vtheimpaler.
diana_coman: !!rate danielpbarron 2 tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
diana_coman: !!v E1BB3082160070D38C628A751D19DD83C5D6D1C994AF55BD4E0BF8C1F6B80B95
deedbot: diana_coman updated rating of danielpbarron from 1 to 2 << tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
diana_coman: !!rate mod6 3 very helpful and lots of very useful work done
diana_coman: !!v 8A37F9F52B21B52E4DFB0E53D54B6516A012FE12C4EF112210AC7C33741669EE
deedbot: diana_coman updated rating of mod6 from 1 to 3 << very helpful and lots of very useful work done
diana_coman: !!rate hanbot 2 sharp writing, helpful euloran
diana_coman: !!v 068369D894E9FDACDD0ADDE7DA472C3783EE038A7BD7CDE58A28C75E1CCF43E6
deedbot: diana_coman rated hanbot 2 << sharp writing, helpful euloran
davout: diana_coman forgot about hanbot's nice password suggestions
trinque: clearly was just testing her new FUCKGOATS
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "es una pagina web"
shinohai: "¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "Es una puta maldita pero muy útil"
mircea_popescu: and now i shall proceed to put to electronic paper my definitive solution for global warming - both the current hallucinated kind as well as any other.
shinohai prepares to fill his liberal tears mug
mircea_popescu: 10k in a 20mn sample makes 100s of k's unlikely dunnit ?
mircea_popescu: ~that~ deployed, as in, i'd be surprised if 50k exist altogerher
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 10:37 jurov:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << not a good idea, because if you pass something clearsigned/encrypted, gpg will decrypt it to stdout, so you end up parsing dangerous user input
Framedragger: also, as you noted earlier, there's a good chance a bunch of ssh *client* keys were generated on those machines, too, so also possible to try to bruteforce-login with generated keys (to servers which have broken rngs)
davout: asciilifeform: lol, even frouikipedia concurs
davout: "Une controverse existe, selon laquelle Serpent n'aurait pas été choisi comme AES, car casser ses clés aurait été beaucoup trop complexe pour les services de renseignement civils et militaires. De plus, même dans une version simplifiée il reste robuste. Par exemple Rijndael est très souvent implémenté dans TLS en version simplifiée sur 14 de ses 16 tours pour des raisons de rapidité, mais aussi d'analyses de données. Alors que Serpent
davout: doit être abaissé à au moins 9 tours pour fournir un niveau identique d'exploitation."
davout: "some terrorists found it controversial"
phf: in other security "Child uses sleeping mom's thumbprint to buy $250 worth of Pokémon toys (cnet.com)"
a111: Logged on 2015-07-12 03:47 mircea_popescu: in any case : i don't like aes for purely political reasons. it became an apparent schelling point out of absolutely nowhere for no discernible reason. these situations always stink.
mircea_popescu: aha. "experts" and "open source" and "opinion leaders" and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: also about 2/3 of the nsa strength in practice, because outside of getting idiots to do idiotic things - they ain't got nuttin.
mircea_popescu: which is why the republican strategy in sociopolitical cryptography is to isolate the nsa assets - the kochs and dreppers and schneiers + a bevy of small fry boecks etc. let them sit on hacker news and upvote each other to death, but otherwise, outside of the usg reservation, they may not opine and they may not be used as reference.
mircea_popescu: because nobody made it, because everyone spent all their time fucking with xcode and unity.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to create the up-node : "stop doing stupid shit" is the universal pill to de-usg the world. stop doing stupid shit with crypto, as contemplarted here, there's no nsa nor any possibility of nsa. stop "plea bargain"ing, there's no us justice system. stop using us banks, there's no us finance. stop chasing the web-revolutionary-app-nonsense, there's no "us technical lead". stop trying to marry women there's no "5th wave
mircea_popescu: the solutions for all these "stop" are given and trivial, now time to apply.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i'm sure i don't exist because schneier didn't invite me to the latest round of rubber chicken.
mircea_popescu: well yes, but you said "between usgola and dangerous homebrew crypto"
BingoBoingo: Lettuce not forget "Equation Group" allegedly uses RC6 to communicate with their turds
mircea_popescu: the alternative explanation being that people are seriously disabled in the sense of coming up with motivation on their own.
mircea_popescu: this is judicious - there's 0 inclination on our part to feed them so they do what they want to do.
mircea_popescu: academics and republic are mutually exclusive constructions.
mircea_popescu: stuff currently in the eulora hackathon could have been done ~two years ago.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
mircea_popescu: if your criteria becomes "i won't do that because too hard ; and i won't do this because too easy" then yes you've just about described present day academia.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-22 17:22 asciilifeform: that many of the titles bear a striking resemblance to each other. "Adaptive Mesh Analysis" reads one and "An Adaptive Algorithm for Mesh Analysis" reads another. Dividing the total remaining by the average number of repetitions halves the list again. Mozart disappears before your very eyes.'
mircea_popescu: they're forcing the latest in static linking deliberate breakage (+ no doubt other goodies) into the "ecosystem"
mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: your ability to use computers may come to depend on obeying the above.
mircea_popescu: "what's he to do" only counts for lords of the republic - not of usg peons.
Framedragger: hm. i still run one (low bandwidth), would be interesting to check things i suppose..
phf: hehe, that rsa one is beautiful
Framedragger: given that this is in san francisco, am i looking at a typical californian startup hackaton here?
Framedragger: not enough butt-sniffing, so maybe that's a no.
trinque: also at least one of them appears to be paid for her work
phf: all these snowy landscapes remind me that i miss snow. i might need to go somewhere cold for a week or two..
Framedragger: pretty cool images, some of these. weirdly artistically stimulating
Framedragger: heh, speaking of 'provably fair' and location in question (tallinn), they've been doing e-voting (for all major elections etc) for a few years now. iirc code audits showed weak spots, multiple sek0rity expert teams, advisory bodies etc recommended to shut it down because it was unsafe, but proud estonia knows better.. :p
Framedragger: README says "the code that can be found here is the code that is used for election" so that's sorted......
mircea_popescu: Framedragger all bureaucracies prefer evoting for the simple reason that "representative democracy" doesn't work anyway, and evoting is way th fuck cheaper.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: what kind of graphix card are you plugging in your new eulorabox ? i'm also mid-build and am unsure if meagre nvidia quadro fx 1500 with 256mb is enough steam. curious to see what you'll be using.
mircea_popescu: the minigame recommended build is geforce gt 600s / radeon hd 6000s or above.
mircea_popescu: eulora works fine on, eg "Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile"
pete_dushenski: let this therefore be remembered as the time alf pissed away 0.3btc (30mn ecu) on his eulorabox build. but hey, nothing like a little deficit to urge on the bot-crafting imagination! watch alf knock down all four hackathon prizes now.
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe in a few years the gfx level goes way up and it'll turn it into a good investment.
pete_dushenski: hella expensive insurance mind you, but insurance nonetheless
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's people playing with quadro fx boards, so should be fine.
jurov: there's (possibly water-related) bug capping fps at ~12 even at some decent setups (such as mine radeon 7790)
jurov: will be hilarious if alf runs into it, too
mircea_popescu: possibly because the client gfx library isn't properly ironed out, tbh.
mircea_popescu: i have mine capped because otherwise it's 150-200 which... meh.
jurov: as there's no fighting yet, it's fully playable at 12
mircea_popescu: tbh i'm not a great fan on the twitch frenzy "rts" style. i expect fighting to be a lot closer to the tbs roots of, eg, mm7.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: recall this is the same 'red line' feller that can't tie his own shoelaces before insinuating that he's anything more than nyc corner meat-on- stick.
pete_dushenski: after 7.9 years of failure to 'yes we can', he's squeezing the last 0.1 to tag the whitehouse walls with 'obummer wuz heer'
mircea_popescu: seems entirely a product of "leakage intensifies, we might have to fire whole army on short notice at this rate"
mircea_popescu: lol wait, the us is going to "punish" russia ? like last time when they "us&allies embargo on russia sunk the us&allies economy" ?
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do this time, anal sex with marine mammals ? TO PUNISH RUSSIA!!!! ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: media.ccc.de is 195.54.164.138
Framedragger: asciilifeform: you really think everyone in h4cker kommunity is aware of phuctor?
mircea_popescu: the pretense that someone in any way even vaguely involved with crypto is not at this point aware of phuctor is on the level of terrestrial life somehow "not being aware the sun exists".
Framedragger: well if you define 'vaguely involved with crypto' as per tmsr-usual "has WoT presence" then yeah
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's a fine lithmus test : doesn't know of phuctor by now, isn't actually involved.
mircea_popescu: as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: Framedragger think for a second, obscure "students" in obscure "technical universities" know about it
mircea_popescu: moreover, nsa agents in charge of narrative.net THINK it is CREDIBLE that such students would so know.
Framedragger: this isis girl in tor reads crypto papers and implements them and runs their bridges infrastructure which uses its own nifty things (hashrings for distributing bridge nodes etc), i'm quite certain she hasn't heard
☟︎ Framedragger: trinque: you referring to moxie i'm guessing :D
Framedragger: you haven't met her in person, you don't know.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this "one" "girl" on ask.fm has asked many thousands of people whether they heard of bitcoin.
Framedragger: what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
☟︎ mircea_popescu: no. what i am saying is that the isis handle is not "a" or "girl".
Framedragger: well look at what she's done if you'd like, i'm not saying you'd have to meet her in person
Framedragger: her handle is 'isis agora lovecruft', it's a pseudonym, retarded or not, like framedragger
mircea_popescu: unlike framedragger, however, it's not one dork your age, but a bunch of them.
Framedragger: (obvs i'm not defending her being core part of tor, or tor.)
Framedragger: oh you're saying 'isis' doesn't have a good referent. i agree. she has a pgp key alright.
mircea_popescu: i'm saying isis is as good a referent as FUCKGOATS. have you met him ?
mircea_popescu: so you went to a room where a bunch of other kids were and you met this girl who said "hi, i'm isis[agoralovecruft]" ?
Framedragger: person who signed all $project-committed code = person standing in front of me, etc.
trinque: and if you saw hanno shitbag, you'd conclude that you'd met only one person, and not an NSA tendril?
trinque: where's danielpbarron, Framedragger needs help identifying plants by their fruit
Framedragger: person with current root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure = person sitting here and teaching me stuff, etc
Framedragger: (and no it's not a 'formal proof' i know.. :/ )
mircea_popescu: for my own edification, how many people would you think have root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure as of say today ?
Framedragger: one or two. i know both. the other guy is a guy
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: have you ever wrestled with mp-wp stripping '.' characters from uploaded filenames when there's more than one?
trinque: Framedragger must've used tor at some point, wants very much to believe no one saw him in there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc << i think not
phf: Framedragger: it's always the same with you, "this online personality construct is great" "they do useful research" etc. until they publish "i don't believe in pgp" or really act in any way that you didn't expect. and then you don't have any recourse, because they are online personality constructs. how well do you know this "online researcher" if you ~having spent significant amount of effort to collect and upload ssh keys~ didn't even
☟︎ phf: chat her up about it.
mircea_popescu: phf the clearing of head is a slow and painful, mostly private process. now he has a definite reference point to come back to later at least.
Framedragger: phf: fair. with regards to chatting up it was more to do with me not being involved with tor anymore; but even that particular still stands, so yes fair
Framedragger: (fwiw i wouldn't defend tptacek as much, at all, but i can see how these framedraggerisms can be related under same umbrella)
Framedragger: (also apologies if my continued presence renders a constant source of radiation damage)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the objection is methodological not factual.
mircea_popescu: and dun worry about it, there's no damage, but there are some chuckles here and there.
Framedragger: right. and it's valid, i can't really defend it properly
Framedragger: i did learn that if i don't flush out the funny parts i'll just grow up to be someone with no interior at all. :)
trinque just doesn't wanna see Framedragger befall the result of misplaced trust
Framedragger: i'm pruning trustleaves slowly, but yeah need another degree of rigour hm
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: would you humor me and upload a genesis.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig and let me know what your mp_wp does?
mircea_popescu: anyway, phf 's notion of "recourse" is a lot more important than directly obvious in context ; it's a direct restatement of the "opposable" concept used in discussing deedbot payment design, and altogetgher the trestlework of sanity in operations.
mircea_popescu: you know what you know in a solid and sustainable way when assumption is backed by recourse.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well ima try whatever multidot random file a sec
mircea_popescu: and that's the entire point of the forum as it works and the other things as they develop - to make recourse in assumption not merely possible, but a matter of course.
mircea_popescu: it is this that distinguishes human from tv-consumer, be the tv delivered over analog cable or digital cable as "www".
Framedragger: that's not an altogether bad attitude now, is it. but yes she's paying for using python 3
mircea_popescu: moreover, defense of the "busy elsewhere" line does utterly require them ~to have done something~. which... "oh, i existed" isn't a doing.
Framedragger: but it is a bit funny how all of these "is element part of this precious set" functions defined in tmsr yield elements only from tmsr. you'd say that's not a problem, but you know.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually i dunno if you read the first lordship list thing, but this is there.
mircea_popescu: "the statement isn't made these are the best - the statement is made these are good. let any other good in their own mind prove this in their own ways."
Framedragger: asciilifeform: airgap solution guy or someone else? just curious
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that *is* a nice way of putting it. but then, it's a much weaker assertion than "define cryptoperson as someone who's heard of phuctor" :)
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact it does - because nothing remarkable happened in 2016.
a111: 2016-10-15 <kmalkki> apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair
mircea_popescu: naked girl on heels with banana in hand walking purposefully across room. /me laughs, she's all "what!" "are you going to eat that ?" "yes i'm going to eat it!"
mircea_popescu: "Complicating matters, the Trump transition team has not yet had extensive briefings with the White House on cybersecurity issues, including the potential use of the cyber sanctions order. The slow pace has caused consternation among officials, who fear that the administration’s accomplishments in cybersecurity could languish if the next administration fails to understand their value." << lulz. aren't they sweet with th
mircea_popescu: eir "only reason anyone could think us irrelevant would be them being uneducated!"
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:50 Framedragger: what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
Framedragger: she wrote current version of, and afaik (maybe old info) still maintains tor bridge infrastructure. at the very least includes saltmining with 'cryptographers' and implementing their ideas (not whole cryptosystems), unless saltmine implies academia
Framedragger: and ecc, i wonder where your wrath was towards bitcoin, in that regard. (i am aware that you were never a bitcoin enthusiast tho, so there's that)
a111: Logged on 2015-04-02 14:58 asciilifeform: 'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t
a111: Logged on 2016-09-29 14:55 asciilifeform: (in actuality, in 'identity-based' crypto, folks actually encipher to a pubkey that is produced by F(Pc, X) where Pc is the chump's email addr and X is a public key of the great inca; chump (email addr holder) can decipher with his Pk_c private key, and so can the inca.
ben_vulpes: standby 2, there's more coming on that post
Framedragger: i wasn't going to show that she was doing good crypto. but this is definitely doing crypto :) (unless goalposts shifted again, etc)
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 17:21 asciilifeform: in other noose, remember the 'riseup' derpatron? the one with the, what, dozen phuctur pops ? well,
https://archive.is/PEVaX trinque back later, after hoon in candidate truck
ben_vulpes: if you don't bottom it out it's not a proper test drive
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:46 mircea_popescu: as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: yeah, formal announcement...sometime
ben_vulpes: also mimisbrunnr irc component isn't wired up to do the talmudic recitals, so...
ben_vulpes: odd to see gribble having such troubles