log
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mats: https://www.cnet.com/news/police-request-echo-recordings-for-homicide-investigation
asciilifeform: promisetronics ftw!
asciilifeform: 'Amazon stores all the voice recordings on its servers, in the hopes of using the data to improve its voice assistant services. While you can delete your personal voice data, there's still no way to prevent any recordings from being saved on a server.' << noshit
mats: pucker up
mats: (this is mildly relevant to the courts circus project)
asciilifeform: 'With every home in Bentonville hooked up to a smart meter that measures hourly electricity and water usage, police looked at the data and noticed Bates used an "excessive amount of water" during the alleged drowning.' << wtf, what was he drowned in, a dirigible hangar ?!
mats: idiot reasoning
mats: maybe bates had food poisoning and flushed a buncha times
phf: i for one am looking for to a gattaca future, where i have to hire a standin for myself. to run amazon echo and nest and facebook and all the other things like that so that there aren't any irregularities
mats: >... we discovered numerous devices that were used for "smart home" services, to include a "Nest" thermometer that is Wi-Fi connected and remotely controlled, a Honeywell alarm system that included door monitoring alarms and motion sensor in the living room, a wireless weather monitoring system outside on the back patio, and WeMo device in the garage area
mats: for remote-activated lighting purposes that had not been opened yet.
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting to learn of a corpse where the wifitronic burglar alarm 'mysteriously' recorded nothing, but i also suspect that we will not read about it in the völkischer beobachter.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/first-eulora-hackathon/ << Trilema - First Eulora Hackathon
mircea_popescu: ^ recommended not just because of the 85 bitcents in prizes
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/veh-patch-hashes_and_errorsvpatch << CH - veh patch: hashes_and_errors.vpatch
asciilifeform: neato ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: tried to dial back the programmer-imposed unnecessary complexity
phf: that run is a bit weird
phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
phf: also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
asciilifeform: ahahaha, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
phf: ben_vulpes: actually you're get-output-streaming twice there, first time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L24 and second time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L28
asciilifeform: unrelated, ben_vulpes : how come you search the gpg output for 'bad signature' rather than 'good signature...' ?
ben_vulpes: phf: ty, keep it coming if you don't mind, i must go async
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: naively, i expect gpg to exit 0 if the signature is good
asciilifeform: it'd seem to me that if i throw in a seal that crashes gpg, ben_vulpes's vtron will say 'good signature' !
ben_vulpes: that inspection is only performed on a bad exit code
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if you can get gpg to crash without exiting zero, i misunderstand much about how this world works
ben_vulpes: must go async, ty to you both
phf: i think it's actually related. otherwise he'd have to get-output-stream-string there again. all the folly starts with that weird run
adlai: ben_vulpes: dunno how this happened, but the link to http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/hashes_and_errorsvpatchben_vulpes.sig is missing a bunch of periods
adlai: !~later tell ben_vulpes see preceding message
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L68 you don't really want to use handler-bind here. you want h-b only when you're working with the whole restart machinery. (handler-case (let ...) (external-program-error (error) ...)) is equivalent of the try/catch that you're doing here
phf: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html this is the canonical document on error handling in common lisp. it's long and dense, because powerful machinery
phf: also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
phf: oh i guess you're checking process-exit-code again, even though you already caught an error for it. i think handler-bind is just confusing here. (handler-case (... t) (error (error) nil)) would've been much more obvious. "succeed and return t or fail and nil"
phf: heh, this is straight up rubyism http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
asciilifeform: unrelated: for BingoBoingo's entomological collection: http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/82115/very-particular-female-bathroom-issues
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
phf: also you don't want to concatenate paths, because that's how you end up losing separators and getting injection attacks and such. (merge-pathnames ...) will still work on strings, but will do the right thing
phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
phf: the main folly are the unixisms all over the place. lisp works with a clear read/eval/print cycle. read means that you want to take outside input and convert it into a concrete data structure. so you shouldn't have a hash with strings in it. things like (string= "false" (gethash 'hash c)) should not happen so far down the call chain. your ~reader~ should convert the input data into a format that's easy to work with. the check could've
phf: been (if (not (hashed-path-hash c)) ...) because you ~reader~ should've already massaged it all into the kind of data computers understand. btcbase uses nil for empty hashes, you could have :empty or whatever, but certainly not carying strings and dictionaries all over the place.
asciilifeform: folx coming from type-poor langs tend to emit 'perlisms' for some time, yes
phf: fwiw btcbase parses path component into a pathname, and the hash is (member nil bignum)
phf: so instead of doing subseqs you can just (pathname-path ...), you check for "false" by a simple null check, you check for hash equality with eql or =
phf: it's an "overkill" for a "unix script", because you throw all that data out anyway soon after constructing it. but in a lisp instance, when you already have all that data in the ~correct form~ you can start writing a dozen of different functions to analyze it, without getting bogged down on format trivia all over the place
asciilifeform: pretty good likbez re what specifically 'non-perlistic' programming is .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << very much this. trusting gpg in this manner is irresponsible.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
mircea_popescu: phf 's lisp critique service is actually pretty cool.
mircea_popescu: "Obesity can be a disability in the EU. That makes it a sticky legal issue and given that she is the lone female, that makes it doubly so. If she's transgendered (which is possible given that she stands up apparently) then it's triply so. This is so intertwined in legal ramifications I can't imagine anything you can say or do (other than what you are already) that doesn't need a lawyer to make sure you don't end up in a suit.
mircea_popescu: " bwahahaha what the shit already.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck happened to "can her in front of the whole staff, in the terms that she may seek employment once she conquers the requirements for preschool ; and if she wants a recomendation letter this is going in the first paragraph."
mircea_popescu: "To whomever it may concern - I strongly advise against hiring the bearer of this letter, as she is not sufficiently qualified to take a piss."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591575 << no go ahead, there is a prize for completeness.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
ben_vulpes: adlai: wordpress, my friend. wordpress.
ben_vulpes: phf: thank you very much
BingoBoingo: wonderful specimen for the colletion alf
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw it was linked from a 'what determines stall speed for aircraft' article
asciilifeform: why? who could possibly know.
BingoBoingo: lol
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591550 << gotcha, it was an &rest before which may explain the contortions☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591551 << sensible ty☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:58 phf: also as a rule you don't really want to let string output streams escape their scope. they don't have standard type (one cmucl it's lisp::string-output-stream for example), so you can't test for it, and for all intents and purposes they act as incomplete builders: you can't do anything with them except get their value, so why not get value there and then?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591554 << yup, derp☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:05 phf: ben_vulpes: actually you're get-output-streaming twice there, first time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L24 and second time http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L28
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << rgr☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
mircea_popescu: lol you know you don't have to roger each line :D
mircea_popescu: you perl head you :D :D
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591569 << i used http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/joF2F/?raw=true to convince myself that this is not true when writing the thing at first☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:25 phf: also in the same handler-bind you're losing a branch. if there's an error, but it's not "BAD signature", then the whole verify silently succeeds. you probably want to (error c) in the else branch to rethrow whatever
ben_vulpes: but i may catastrophically misunderstand
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591571 << o hey, you found the oldest and most heinous sins i didn't fix☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:34 phf: heh, this is straight up rubyism http://btcbase.org/patches/veh-genesis#L145. it would've been much cheaper to (defstruct hashed-path path hash) and so that later you don't have to poor man datastructure by (gethash 'path ...) (gethash 'hash ...) all over the place
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591575 << no need to stop if there's more to say☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:41 phf: i'm going to stop wall of texting the log though
mircea_popescu: http://www.broomie.co.uk/full-event-president-elect-donald-trump-rally-in-cincinnati-oh-12116/#comment-320544 << in other lulz.
asciilifeform: lel
asciilifeform: 'TRUMP hotels on the moon and mars, for starters. For those who want to ENGINEER this (and much, much more), email me at: gabriel valeth laddel @ gmail dot com, using the subject line “MAGA: THE SPACE RACE IS ON”'
asciilifeform: wat.
asciilifeform: i suppose d00d finally scored that lsd or whatever it was he lacked.
mircea_popescu: why's everyone always skip over venus ? mars is too hot ; the moon is too small. neither make any fucking sense.
ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
mircea_popescu: other than well chosen jupiter satellites, venus is the ticket.
ben_vulpes: mars is too hot?
mircea_popescu: yes.
ben_vulpes: unscreened solar flux or something?
ben_vulpes: or "rad-hot"
mircea_popescu: yes it's tiny and bs.
ben_vulpes: that
ben_vulpes: is what she said
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: srsly though, what is it, 1% of earth pressure ?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591550 << sbcl makes a style warning about &optional and &keys together. i lack the intuition to override the compiler here, does this weaken typechecking and is it worthwhile?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 01:56 phf: i'd write it as (cmd &optional args &key input), because you always have to provide cmd (where's right now you can write (run) and the compiler won't catch it), more often than not you have to provide args and sometimes you have to provide input
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the longest-enduring venus probe croaked after 1h. from overheat.
ben_vulpes: that just means we need floating cities
ben_vulpes: bespin now
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not responsible for bad engineering.
mircea_popescu: point is, there are expensive things and cheap things. compensating for a lack of atmosphere is fucking expensive. properly cooling is nothing compared.
asciilifeform: how do you 'properly cool' when ambient atmosphere is oven
mircea_popescu: we got all these global warming experts, they'll capture the co2 or something
asciilifeform: lolk.
ben_vulpes: brin mentioned a trick with endothermic lasers
ben_vulpes: nfi if such exist
mircea_popescu: btw, what's the latest in crackpottery re venus lack of magnetosphere ?
asciilifeform: no field, no magnetosphere
asciilifeform: no crackpottery needed
mircea_popescu: yes but is it because it spins backwards ?
asciilifeform: mno, because solid
mircea_popescu: could be that it;s really a spaceship.
asciilifeform: a block of cheese.
mircea_popescu: wasn't that the moon ?
asciilifeform: can have 2!11!1
ben_vulpes: lol stan having none of it
mircea_popescu: but for srs, it's not actually known why the fuck.
mircea_popescu: it does have volcanic activity, so it's not that. it DOES spin, though perhaps too slow.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: as an undergrad i worked for the d00d who curated the 'Вега' probes. but he was already, naturally, in usa, and sorta old, nutty.
phf: ben_vulpes: (if (search ...) (error ...) (what-happens-here???))
phf: oh oh i see what you're saying
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: i read "handler-case destroys the call stack" and thought to myself "if i can avoid that, i probably should".
phf: well, it's only interesting if you're going to restart, otherwise..
ben_vulpes: otherwise may as well nuke everything in the unrecoverable branch
phf: well, more important whose reporting the failure. if you want to pass through to the user the fact that there's a shell call out somewhere and it has all kinds of mechanisms. but verify should probably speak for itself in its own terms.
phf: but your bad-signature is an external-program-error, so the whole things is a swiss chese
ben_vulpes: i imagined an inheritance chain looking like error->external-program-error->{bad-signature, no-gpg-data, ...}
ben_vulpes: probably pointless complexity that could be snipped in favor of simple errors everywhere?
phf: no, that's no the issue, it's more like a complexity along arbitrary lines
phf: you have a set of (incomplete and adhoc, but there) crypto operations. they speak their own language. they can succeed, they can fail, but none of that has to do with "external programs". that's a different set of operations that deals with unix etc. that speaks its own language
ben_vulpes: so that there are a set of operations that just happen to be implemented with "external programs" is no reason their errors should inherit from "external program" errors
phf: right
ben_vulpes: k
ben_vulpes: "swiss cheese" then meaning something like "notions are touching each other for no reason other than that's how the air bubbles formed"?
phf: yeap
ben_vulpes: coooool
ben_vulpes: thanks again
ben_vulpes: clim clim clim
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: how do i know you're not running the longest and lowest-dough scam with these masamune boxen?
asciilifeform: clim voroshilov.
gabriel_laddel_p: !!key ben_vulpes
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA.asc
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591621 < and how exactly do you go about finding blindly ambitious youngsters?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 04:25 ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
ben_vulpes: are you describing yourself or people you want to respond to whatever that was asciilifeform quoted?
gabriel_laddel_p: Incidentally, it is pronounced "maza-mune". Yes, yes, as you wrote is technically how they say it in japan, but it sounds stupid.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: it's a pun on moon hotels
gabriel_laddel_p: oic
phf: heh, i also pronounce it japanese style, ma-sa-mu-ne
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: sounds absurd, doesn't it?
gabriel_laddel_p: totally ka-wai-eee
ben_vulpes: i am epically confused, how else would it be pronounced
gabriel_laddel_p: or something idk
ben_vulpes: neeee sooo desu
ben_vulpes: anyways, otaku gaijin shit aside a) do you have videos of this thing working or am i supposed to believe that it does because you now have a key you can use and b) how much for the whole circus, delivered
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: will be (figuring out how to, and then) sending you an encrypted gpg thingy tomorrow.
gabriel_laddel_p: it'll have a link to a video.
ben_vulpes: pricing that sensitive, eh?
phf: also sbcl got some balls. they've been adding all this stuff, don't do this, don't do that. i suppose you can either muffle it, or just not optional the second argument and pass nil everytime there's nothing. fwiw your code always has an argument list, so it's non issue
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: not at all: 410 + the price of the hardware.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: does your thing have a www ?
ben_vulpes: well i'm just on tenterhooks waiting to learn what's so cryptworthy
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: I have 4 other people who want them/one. Need to organize my thoughts, stop reading about [redacted] and actually respond to their emails.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: no, and it won't.
asciilifeform: wai not, gabriel_laddel_p ? e.g., FUCKGOATS, has a www
asciilifeform: mpex -- has www. deedbot. etc
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: to move fiat monies into republican coffers. You all get free reign to sell masamune and take 100% of profits past buying the first one.
gabriel_laddel_p: I don't want someone to be able to look up a webpage and debate you about what it is that they get.
gabriel_laddel_p: they get what they get from $PERSON_WHO_ORDERED_FROM_ME
asciilifeform: fwiw whoever wants can also make own FUCKGOATS and sell.
asciilifeform: yet it has www, because wtf, how else anyone knows what it is that is for sale.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: say that you derp around with MGL_MAT and make a neat handwriting recognition module like the HP Compaq TC1100 had.
gabriel_laddel_p: You should be able to charge whatever and "they" can suck it.
mircea_popescu chuckles privately at all teh folk imparting phonetic content through frowning peculiarly at everyday alphabetic notation. oh mu-ne is it!
gabriel_laddel_p: mk back to CA.
mircea_popescu: oh speaking of which, gabriel_laddel_p why not packaging fuckgoats with the masamunes ?
mircea_popescu: oh im too late huh.
asciilifeform: also gabriel_laddel_p's boxen flying off the shelf, but still no permanent postbox..?
ben_vulpes: someone's going to have to fuel the meth habit for another month to pop this one
asciilifeform: and no ransomed old pgp key..?
mircea_popescu: dude he sold 4 boxes, if he makes enough for a decent meal out of that he's ahead of the game.
ben_vulpes: so he says, so he says.
asciilifeform: i'd still like to know wtf it was that he even sells. having a www would help...
mircea_popescu: he apparently wants to sell p2p, big whoop.
asciilifeform: from the l0gz, it looks like a shitlinux with sbcl preinstalled (big fat breakthrough?)
ben_vulpes: phf: ty
ben_vulpes: now if only i could find a graceful way to muffle compiler warnings for functions...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suspicion is unwarranted for the following reason : if he was aware he's packaging crap, he'd not be courting you ; or him. because unlike him you do have wwws. so either he's patently insane or else got something. in either case, a few hundy, not the end of the world. a decent escort is ~same.
asciilifeform: i have nothing in particular against the d00d, but it is quite genuinely unclear to me where the 'value added' is.
mircea_popescu: same is true about apple.
ben_vulpes: why in the not gentooing your own boxes
ben_vulpes: and all the hours spent changing belts and capplugs
ben_vulpes: as you yourself pointed out
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't optional
asciilifeform: if you don't, you are stuck using some variant of crapple.
ben_vulpes: no i'm going to plug my ears say neener and make it gabriel_laddel's problem
mircea_popescu: the original proposition was "hooker-ready laptop". i can see the "value add".
ben_vulpes: actually whole thing is likely just a ploy to get pre-rooted boxen into republican ops
asciilifeform: clim is 'hooker ready' ?!
ben_vulpes: physicist, maybe
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform masamune;d better be. ben_vulpes hey, find the hole, get a prize.
asciilifeform: ubuntu/whateveritwas autoupdater.
asciilifeform: do i win the prize.
mircea_popescu: it wasn't ubuntu based was it ?
asciilifeform: i've nfi
asciilifeform: now if it had a www...
mircea_popescu: then wut.
ben_vulpes: still gotta fuckin quarantine the thing when it shows up.
ben_vulpes: new topic
ben_vulpes: guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is guitarist ?
ben_vulpes: i play at least 30 minutes 4 times a week
asciilifeform: neato, i had nfi.
ben_vulpes: some 1.5 years back i leapt off the couch and demanded a hand-held instrument to awaken dormant pathways
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet critter has a guitar, but it has not been touched in decade+, might crumble into dust if unpacked.
ben_vulpes: girl provided a guitar in short order
ben_vulpes: so now i play guitar poorly and frequently
asciilifeform: iirc somebody sells electric guitar now that is just a stick with painted-on 'strings', and a comp
phf: deep purple covers on a loop?
asciilifeform: switch on, play by imaginarily plucking.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "guitar hero"!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no, not the toy, a tunable/playable thing
asciilifeform: but i fuhget the vendor
asciilifeform: something chinese.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: iirc the longest-enduring venus probe croaked after 1h. from overheat. << Or corrosion. Place requires ph balancing
asciilifeform: for some reason i picture the 'baliste' in 'dune' as working like this.
ben_vulpes: baliset i think
asciilifeform: baliset
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: kbd eggog
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: d00d has little plastic models of the probez in his office, would go on and on..
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuBSvNtlAq8 << oblig
ben_vulpes: holy shit i forgot picard was in that
phf: not enough reverb. i always thought baliset being a 70s instrument, considering that they had those portable source of energy in their shields, would be a kind of guitar moog
ben_vulpes: a shit i'm going to have to rewatch this.
asciilifeform: phf: funnily enough, iirc the item used in the film actually fit this description.
asciilifeform: and aha, ben_vulpes , recall during conf 4, mircea_popescu playing the baliset, we poured the waterz...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aha and the isis men kept trying to fuck the goats :D
ben_vulpes: phf: (cmd &optional args input)
ben_vulpes: which brings me to: "when positional, and when keyword?"
BingoBoingo starting to think that mebbe Venus just needs a moon
phf: ben_vulpes: i think best way to answer that question is to read a lot of existing code from different backgrounds (pre-2000s code, famous people code, etc.). my rule of thumb is that you use optional if ~at call site~ it's still obvious what the argument means. otherwise you promote it to keywoard. (run "foo" `("-p" "bar")) makes sense, but (run "foo" `("-p" "bar") stream) you start guessing. is it input stream? is it output stream?
phf: etc.
phf: in this case, if you want to avoid the warning and not fuck with muffling, i'd stick with (cmd args &key input). fwiw that's what sbcl's run-program does already
ben_vulpes: verily
ben_vulpes: okay ty
ben_vulpes: still means one has to (run "foo" `())
BingoBoingo wonders how many hamplanets need be flung into Venusuvian orbit in order to make a credible moon that spins that bitch around faster.
phf: yes, but you never do, also it's (run "foo" nil) or if you insist (run "foo" ()) though that last one looks funny
phf: you as in you in your code
ben_vulpes: right
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency eur
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 916.4216, vol: 10049.25721374 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 882.63592, vol: 272.12183 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 943.6581, vol: 2498140.26720000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 909.012, vol: 9322.43803212 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.414513512
ben_vulpes: mk all very sensible ty phf
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency gbp
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 779.91696, vol: 10048.70134875 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 749.2434264, vol: 7648.73621 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 803.843997, vol: 2498327.20560000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 770.0, vol: 41.40903382 | Volume-weighted last average: 803.581896386
BingoBoingo: My how the euro has fallen
mats: !~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market bitstamp] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market bitstamp]
jhvh1: mats: 959.0 / 916.8999 = 1.045915699194645
mats: !~calc [ticker --last --currency USD --market btcchina] / [ticker --last --currency EUR --market btcchina]
jhvh1: mats: 989.763819 / 943.057407 = 1.0495265841223598
mats: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-27/singapore-defaults-seen-as-bellwether-for-asia-distress-in-2017
mats: betting on btcusd not going to 1k is turning out to be quite the nail biter
ben_vulpes: mats: what kinda timeframe are you biting your nails over?
mats: the bet settles on 01 january 2017
ben_vulpes: ah i see
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591748 <<< playing classical stuff?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 05:20 ben_vulpes: guitarists who type a lot: do you always trim both hands?
ben_vulpes: davout: no, simple rhythm stuff
davout: what do you need your nails for then? get yourself a pick or something
ben_vulpes: compulsive nail tidying is 2x as expensive if you do both hands
ben_vulpes: sounds like davout thinks "just trim your hands evenly, weirdo"
davout: i don't get it, the expensive part for me is "finding the nail clipper", not the "clipping nails"
ben_vulpes: but do you reticulate the splines
davout: what is that?
ben_vulpes: sim city 3k reference
ben_vulpes: "Reticulating the splines..."
ben_vulpes: in the loading screen
ben_vulpes: bad joke, dun sweat it
davout: yeah, googled it, got "Reticulating splines | The Sims Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia", wtf levels increased :D
ben_vulpes: in retrospect, the expensive part is having mismatched nail lengths
ben_vulpes: i have utterly nfi how women put up with all of the ornamental crap
davout: go to the salon, get some other woman to do it for her
davout: on daddy's dime == win
ben_vulpes: my internal popesculator says "what, wimminz are for ornamenting!"
mats: i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
mats: in this context
ben_vulpes: mats: does 'mommy' typically hold the purse strings among yr people?
ben_vulpes: also are talking fathers, husbands, sugar daddies or 'beta buxx'?
mats: i'd say its 1:1
mats: http://shanghaiist.com/2016/09/01/chinese_women_control_household_finances.php << seems to agree
mats: i mean, i grew up in sv, so i live in a weird in-between of us and cn culture
ben_vulpes: heh the sv/us conflation
mats: i gtfo soon as i was an adult, to live outside of the reality bubble
mats: didn't turn out to be that different, the new money here is just young white dudes that wear brooks brothers instead of uniqlo
davout: "In addition to the headline finding, the study also discovered that the more women earn, the greater say they have over the family's financial management." <<< such finding
ben_vulpes: new money is uniformly uninteresting
ben_vulpes: old money moderately interesting if you're trying to marry into it
ben_vulpes: mats: what part of us is "here"?
mats: boston
ben_vulpes: oya
ben_vulpes: dunno that's too far outside of teh bubb
mats: if i'm being honest i wanted to get away from the massive numbers of asians
ben_vulpes: well i was going to ask if you were in the boston cn wot
mats: but now i miss it, funny how that works
ben_vulpes: your very own tiger mom
ben_vulpes: infinite easy payments of everything you make
mats: i don't follow
ben_vulpes: cn reputation for 'tiger moms' among usasians
ben_vulpes: chinese moms control the purse strings
ben_vulpes: mats misses 'home culture'
mats: o
ben_vulpes: in other "how the mighty have fallen"s: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8026-a_story_of_discrimination_and_unfairness
mats: there's a sense of other-ness wherever i'm at, in new england
mats: eyeballs on me all day when i'm on the cape
mats: its not as bad in the city
ben_vulpes: "honey, don't /look/, but..."
mats: i'd like to move to hk or tw before i'm 30 but it seems to be getting more expensive all the time
davout: mats: hows that specific to these places?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << i'll have to think on how to fix this☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure.
mats: davout: well, its actually getting cheaper to live in, say, sf or boston, in the short-term, due to high rises going up
davout: you mean wages?
mats: its not really specific to hk or tw, and tw is actually more affordable comparatively
mats: i mean luxury residences pushing prices down
mats: new ones
davout: oic
mats: huh, upon closer inspection, it looks like rent and housing prices are declining in tw and hk too
mats: http://www.cybersquirrel1.com
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << not a good idea, because if you pass something clearsigned/encrypted, gpg will decrypt it to stdout, so you end up parsing dangerous user input☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 02:17 phf: there's not much discipline on unix with stderr/stdout. particularly gpg seems cavalier with it. so i wouldn't even bother with error/output separation. i'd make it always return a single value, string that's combined stdout/stderr, and fail when status code is not equal to zero. maybe add a key argument, that splits them if need be, but only once there's need.
jurov: use batchmode and just ignore stdout (unless you need it)
jurov: venus colonization is most feasible in the atmosphere, there's a layer with ~20C temperature, ~1atm pressure, breathable N2-O2 atmosphere is lifting gas, you can have 30hour days by surfing jet streams ...
jurov: ... and nice clouds of concentrated sulphuric acid :)
jurov: http://www.space.com/29140-venus-airship-cloud-cities-incredible-technology.html
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591824 << it's "daddy's dime" and "mom's basement" -- perhaps it's masculine when going out and feminine when staying in☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 07:39 mats: i've always thought it was weird that english speakers use 'daddy' but not 'mommy'
diana_coman: !!unrate Mafroz
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/B3jf1/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 8432836915E56942BC2E87B0D901EA7E5FF583F326FAD9D7810299020266FD8C
deedbot: diana_coman unrated Mafroz.
diana_coman: !!unrate Zakorus123
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/UQlsg/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 953696A41F310BFCB23DD04FFCAFFF6281F6AC68C19F8C592FEE502E519E283D
deedbot: diana_coman unrated Zakorus123.
diana_coman: !!unrate bitnumus
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/SoIRT/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 239FBAC33E2DDE0241066C4E2651ED0683BA39EBC9B042A51B3F7391AA70104E
deedbot: diana_coman unrated bitnumus.
diana_coman: !!unrate bitbargain
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/uVq8C/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 162C02F9A4391A31A310B11C4878EB6AED672679ABABBBCB7096083A7146E0F2
deedbot: diana_coman unrated bitbargain.
diana_coman: !!unrate vtheimpaler
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/To2R5/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 4DEC38CA63CDC19839DF0F87A1335BCA41AB5D58CA62F85C50F3899ACF6AFBCA
deedbot: diana_coman unrated vtheimpaler.
diana_coman: !!rate danielpbarron 2 tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/jCEr0/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v E1BB3082160070D38C628A751D19DD83C5D6D1C994AF55BD4E0BF8C1F6B80B95
deedbot: diana_coman updated rating of danielpbarron from 1 to 2 << tinkerer of bots, secretive euloran elder
diana_coman: !!rate mod6 3 very helpful and lots of very useful work done
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/3UzQb/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 8A37F9F52B21B52E4DFB0E53D54B6516A012FE12C4EF112210AC7C33741669EE
deedbot: diana_coman updated rating of mod6 from 1 to 3 << very helpful and lots of very useful work done
diana_coman: !!rate hanbot 2 sharp writing, helpful euloran
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/E7Ffw/?raw=true
diana_coman: !!v 068369D894E9FDACDD0ADDE7DA472C3783EE038A7BD7CDE58A28C75E1CCF43E6
deedbot: diana_coman rated hanbot 2 << sharp writing, helpful euloran
davout: diana_coman forgot about hanbot's nice password suggestions
shinohai: kek
diana_coman: eh, selected points, lol
trinque: clearly was just testing her new FUCKGOATS
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBBB1104DCE81D9FED18429F378EF9FB623BD973F9B1D6A18A6023A70078F40E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.77 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/32652A860DF501D08376A8FF97AF452915B8916DD7D6F5F97D33250D3E7F72F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.0.223 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.0.223 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9A34020BD86CCFD722610615BCEA3BC872B7161FCFEB84222CAAD4208C7869B5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.14.77 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.14.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/89B9986669FC0DDDC234C7D8D296527FC8336AD24BDCEABF0945DCA3E0F4425F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.2.129 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.2.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C1E22BC13AEE395691A9E2C5119C1DDEFCB1547805C81E1B70E6885083DFF48 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1735...8443 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '196.25.190.4 (ssh-rsa key from 196.25.190.4 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
davout: trinque: clearly
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "es una pagina web"
shinohai: "¿Sabes algo sobre Bitcoin?" "Es una puta maldita pero muy útil"
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: and now i shall proceed to put to electronic paper my definitive solution for global warming - both the current hallucinated kind as well as any other.
shinohai prepares to fill his liberal tears mug
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/163690110BB2F01EE38E324C90C6FB9BA5AED5D15A8C51E69FBF8B1803EC5626 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1622...2987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.42.115.88 (ssh-rsa key from 195.42.115.88 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (doofaberglucklich. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3BBBCBDD644D1D80A7C425768216B6423C800AF2652EC7E804BE35A2E98D19C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...5397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.233.156.82 (ssh-rsa key from 91.233.156.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (91-233-156-82.interkonekt.pl. PL MA)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591924 << lel, yet another 'mikrotik routeros', lost count by now of how many☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 16:26 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3BBBCBDD644D1D80A7C425768216B6423C800AF2652EC7E804BE35A2E98D19C0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...5397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.233.156.82 (ssh-rsa key from 91.233.156.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (91-233-156-82.interkonekt.pl. PL MA)
asciilifeform: (not debian. its own idiocy.)
asciilifeform: the thing to observe here is that, e.g., mikrotik, should be susceptible to the debian treatment (enumerate the possible factors, then shoot)
asciilifeform: ditto the huawei boxes, the voip thing, whatever it was called, and the dozen or so other examples i catalogued in recent months
asciilifeform: now if someone here knew where to get a hold of even one !
mircea_popescu: heh. most of ;em i'd expect
mircea_popescu: !!key Framedragger
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/E2DF986D58A0D3876BA165FACC0510AAFD8AF4B7.asc
asciilifeform: all i need is 1.
asciilifeform: of a particular type.
mircea_popescu: trinque nothing loads ?
asciilifeform: (not necessarily the physical box ! the os ought to be enough )
asciilifeform: each successful shot is potentially several thousand popped keys.
asciilifeform: (could be -- hundreds of thousand)
mircea_popescu: trinque eh nm random burp.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun think it was ever that deployed.
asciilifeform: which it
mircea_popescu: mikrotik
asciilifeform: what do you mean 'was ever deployed'
asciilifeform: they're pestilentially common
asciilifeform: 15`645 2.3.0_Mikrotik_v2.9 << from mircea_popescu's mega-tally
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C1E22BC13AEE395691A9E2C5119C1DDEFCB1547805C81E1B70E6885083DFF48 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1464...6423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '196.25.190.4 (ssh-rsa key from 196.25.190.4 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
asciilifeform: (and that's just 1 ver; iirc various others identify as plain ssh)
mircea_popescu: 10k in a 20mn sample makes 100s of k's unlikely dunnit ?
asciilifeform: in this case -- yes
mircea_popescu: ~that~ deployed, as in, i'd be surprised if 50k exist altogerher
asciilifeform: huawei, on other hand!
asciilifeform: or the 462`750 ROSSSH
mircea_popescu: oya
asciilifeform: or.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: huawei especially.
mircea_popescu: i think they're fucking calenders.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591868 << well, that's why ultimately -- flags, eventually it starts looking like the original signature of run-program that he's wrapping☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 10:37 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591566 << not a good idea, because if you pass something clearsigned/encrypted, gpg will decrypt it to stdout, so you end up parsing dangerous user input
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tropos , i recall now, was the other big one.
asciilifeform: (it displays unremarkable ssh hello, the litmus for it uses the ssl cert that the boxes also display on 443)
mircea_popescu: pretty sure multiple do this.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit re tropos is that it is not a konsoomer box, but infrastructural (isp, public wifi, gsm, utility sensors) and for some reason popular in orc world
mircea_popescu: yea
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1733 << as seen here, good chunk of the first N ssh keys to pop were tropos boxen.
asciilifeform: the other interesting experiment, yet undone, is to generate ssh, ssl, pgp, etc. keys on some of the other os with known-broken rng -- e.g., freebsd 2010-2014 (or when was it), possibly other
asciilifeform: then enumerate factors.
asciilifeform: then -- debianize.
asciilifeform: one of the hidden evils of 'of course generating key takes 10 minutes!' traditional entropy starvation -- is that nobody expects to be able to do the test where you generate 10 billion keys and make sure that the resulting keys have gcd of 1
asciilifeform: whereas this is elementarily reasonable.
Framedragger: also, as you noted earlier, there's a good chance a bunch of ssh *client* keys were generated on those machines, too, so also possible to try to bruteforce-login with generated keys (to servers which have broken rngs)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this also. but -- slow.
Framedragger: yeah.
asciilifeform: this is for when mircea_popescu gets his botnet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
asciilifeform since release of FUCKGOATS, spent much time studying 'serpent' block cipher.
asciilifeform: it is pretty interesting imho.
asciilifeform: for instance, there are no tables.
asciilifeform: (and so, no cache-sensitivity.)
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HQmMH/?raw=true << example in ada. < 700 ln.
asciilifeform: the political history is also rather interesting (it was on track to winning the 'aes competition', received fewest thumbs-down votes from the panelists, but mysteriously torpedoed by usg and did not win)
mircea_popescu: serpent, eh ?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-fix-global-warming/ << Trilema - How to fix global warming ?
mircea_popescu: and in other unixes bathroom news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e9ad40055776fd92557b63fdad30f7ea/tumblr_odcvoq0Mht1uk5y45o1_1280.jpg
davout: asciilifeform: lol, even frouikipedia concurs
davout: "Une controverse existe, selon laquelle Serpent n'aurait pas été choisi comme AES, car casser ses clés aurait été beaucoup trop complexe pour les services de renseignement civils et militaires. De plus, même dans une version simplifiée il reste robuste. Par exemple Rijndael est très souvent implémenté dans TLS en version simplifiée sur 14 de ses 16 tours pour des raisons de rapidité, mais aussi d'analyses de données. Alors que Serpent
davout: doit être abaissé à au moins 9 tours pour fournir un niveau identique d'exploitation."
asciilifeform: davout: it was a loud, public wank, ~impossible to 'unhappen' to any reasonable degree
asciilifeform: more or less simply declared 'history, done with'
davout: "some terrorists found it controversial"
mircea_popescu: there's certainly worse options than serpent.
asciilifeform: now i will remind readers that 'serpent' is not, afaik, on any kind of scientific foundation. it was made using voodoo doll, just like every other block cipher. (what kind of doll, is described in the paper.)
asciilifeform: BUT it is in several ways, apparent to the naked eye, less retarded than aes
asciilifeform: in particular: no tables.
asciilifeform: pipeline doesn't leak timing either, because - if implemented correctly - you never branch on a secret (key or plaintext) bit.
Framedragger: hut that actually sounds nice..
asciilifeform: the thing executes in constant-ticks, looks like.
phf: in other security "Child uses sleeping mom's thumbprint to buy $250 worth of Pokémon toys (cnet.com)"
asciilifeform: lel
mircea_popescu: clearly the security helped.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-12#1198070 << old thread re aes☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-07-12 03:47 mircea_popescu: in any case : i don't like aes for purely political reasons. it became an apparent schelling point out of absolutely nowhere for no discernible reason. these situations always stink.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: very reminiscent of elliptic curve "cryptography".
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg. ~same ~2dozen people involved.
mircea_popescu: aha. "experts" and "open source" and "opinion leaders" and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: also about 2/3 of the nsa strength in practice, because outside of getting idiots to do idiotic things - they ain't got nuttin.
mircea_popescu: which is why the republican strategy in sociopolitical cryptography is to isolate the nsa assets - the kochs and dreppers and schneiers + a bevy of small fry boecks etc. let them sit on hacker news and upvote each other to death, but otherwise, outside of the usg reservation, they may not opine and they may not be used as reference.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: more dire, even, than this, we aren't dealing with 20 years of disinfo artistry, but ~70 ! hagelin, crypto-ag, etc. and the entire poppycock of transposition ciphers surviving into computer age
asciilifeform: especially transpositions as we know them. i'm still waiting to hear why s-boxes are fixed, rather than entirely configured by the key, ever.
asciilifeform: i asked 'professional cryptographers of international repute' and 0 answer beyond 'here's a banana, monkey boy'
asciilifeform: !#s maslennikov
a111: 14 results for "maslennikov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=maslennikov
asciilifeform: ^ d00d worked for kgb crypto directorate in '80s, asked same question of his superiors, got same answer.
asciilifeform: or, the other obvious mega-question, why there is no STRETCHABLE (a la keccak) block cipher
asciilifeform: where you can have 193-bit words if you feel like it, with 311-bit key. and next day - 301-bit words and 503-bit key, etc.
mircea_popescu: because nobody made it, because everyone spent all their time fucking with xcode and unity.
asciilifeform: (answer is, the folx with 'acres of crays' will butthurt that their oh-so-precious special-purpose silicon is bricked)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why 'xcode and unity', and not 'the bottle'
asciilifeform: moar folx went to the bottle.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to create the up-node : "stop doing stupid shit" is the universal pill to de-usg the world. stop doing stupid shit with crypto, as contemplarted here, there's no nsa nor any possibility of nsa. stop "plea bargain"ing, there's no us justice system. stop using us banks, there's no us finance. stop chasing the web-revolutionary-app-nonsense, there's no "us technical lead". stop trying to marry women there's no "5th wave
mircea_popescu: feminism" and so following.
asciilifeform: esp. because ciphers are a blindingly obvious 'political art', where if you aren't schneier et al, you don't get printed in journals, invited to conferences, implemented by open sores monkeys, etc.
asciilifeform: i.e. 'don't exist'
mircea_popescu: the solutions for all these "stop" are given and trivial, now time to apply.
asciilifeform: 'rocket is trivial, just sit in a pipe and throw hot gas out one end'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i'm sure i don't exist because schneier didn't invite me to the latest round of rubber chicken.
mircea_popescu: the vice-versa is a lot more concerning, for him.
asciilifeform: now i cannot speak for others, but i spent past few yrs exploring the known space between usgola (aes et al) and http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto
asciilifeform: and it's more or less a vacuum.
asciilifeform: at least in as far as public lit.
mircea_popescu: evidently, there's serpent :)
mircea_popescu: and cs, and keccak, and things.
asciilifeform: serpent is, i must note, 'best horse in the glue factory.'
asciilifeform: cs is not a block cipher.
asciilifeform: keccak is not any kind of cipher.
mircea_popescu: well yes, but you said "between usgola and dangerous homebrew crypto"
asciilifeform: (keccak or another hash can be abused as a stream cipher, but it is precisely 'retarded homebrew', i will leave the reason ~why~ as an exercise)
asciilifeform: but also i was referring to ~people~ as much as to algos.
BingoBoingo: Lettuce not forget "Equation Group" allegedly uses RC6 to communicate with their turds
asciilifeform: there are surely people other than mircea_popescu and asciilifeform who -- have interest in subj + have the theoretical pre-reqs + seriously ready to get their hands dirty + not thralls of usg
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nsa uses rc6 for all 'deniable ops', because it is goodenough+short in asm
asciilifeform: i used it myself when writing rootkits.
BingoBoingo: Oic
asciilifeform: 'when choosing astrologer, hire the cheapest'
asciilifeform: anyway, there are surely people, but i have not met them yet.
asciilifeform: they, if they live, are in another kingergarten, somewhere far.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://read.pudn.com/downloads170/sourcecode/crypt/789721/ciphers/rc6.asm__.htm << rc6.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, when i wrote to bernstein, there was 0 answer.
asciilifeform: (and i wrote on 2 separate occasions.)
asciilifeform: the academics, any and all of them, afaik, the bought and the unbought, the imbeciles and the brilliant, americans or chinese, so far show 0 inclination to distinguish us from the ants.
mircea_popescu: the alternative explanation being that people are seriously disabled in the sense of coming up with motivation on their own.
mircea_popescu: this is judicious - there's 0 inclination on our part to feed them so they do what they want to do.
mircea_popescu: academics and republic are mutually exclusive constructions.
asciilifeform: the non-academics, on the other hand, also disappoint. for wholly other reasons.
mircea_popescu: eh, what was appointed for them to disappoint ?
asciilifeform: very basic jobs, comprehensible even to a retarded lemur, remain screamingly undone.
mircea_popescu: tell me about it.
asciilifeform: (e.g., block cipher with ~any~ theoretical basis)
mircea_popescu: stuff currently in the eulora hackathon could have been done ~two years ago.
asciilifeform: btw asciilifeform is building a massive 3d gpu + fast cpu + max ram etc. machine, and, among other uses, it will build+run eulora
BingoBoingo: how does RAM compare to Phuctor?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: smaller
BingoBoingo: :(
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: civilian box, for pleasure, 32G
asciilifeform: fits into a ~toaster-sized iron box.
BingoBoingo: Oh my
asciilifeform: maybe i fill it with transformer oil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the difference being you know, that "come up with block cipher with ~any~ theoretical basis" is more in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589135 whereas eulora bot things are more in the vein of "fix yourself a martini"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is so, but mt. everest screams out to climbers from afar
asciilifeform: whereas martini, most folx have to fix with own hands.
mircea_popescu: if your criteria becomes "i won't do that because too hard ; and i won't do this because too easy" then yes you've just about described present day academia.
asciilifeform: well yes, it's sop 'publish/perish'
asciilifeform: too hard ? no paper. too easy ? no paper.
asciilifeform: derivative crapolade ? paperpaperpaper!111
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-22#728963 << seealso.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-06-22 17:22 asciilifeform: that many of the titles bear a striking resemblance to each other. "Adaptive Mesh Analysis" reads one and "An Adaptive Algorithm for Mesh Analysis" reads another. Dividing the total remaining by the average number of repetitions halves the list again. Mozart disappears before your very eyes.'
asciilifeform: in other probably-not-news, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ug540/?raw=true << MOST gentoo mirrors have been converted into 'glue traps' where you either get 'file not found' for a CATALOGUED package (best case), or it HANGS FOR FIVE WHOLE MINUTES on 'PASV ...'
asciilifeform: the scene from '100 years of solitude', where ants eat the baby but carefully leave the skin in roughly the correct shape, comes to mind
asciilifeform: pick it up - there is no meat in it, only a billion ant
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: ubuntu pioneered this.
mircea_popescu: and the gcc 4.x issue is not without ramifications. consider : http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t18:28:17
mircea_popescu: they're forcing the latest in static linking deliberate breakage (+ no doubt other goodies) into the "ecosystem"
asciilifeform: noshit, i rang this alarm bell right here 2+ yrs ago
asciilifeform: and yes, all according to plan, it goes.
mircea_popescu: which i suppose warrants a general warning : DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR GCC TO 5.0! SAVE YOUR COPIES OF 4.X AND PRIOR!
mircea_popescu: your ability to use computers may come to depend on obeying the above.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
asciilifeform: not quite so simple, e.g., c++11 ~dunwork under 4.x, and you're stuck with 'boost' and other abortions to make up for the missing functionality.
asciilifeform: what the shitgnomes are really trying for is to smoke folks out of using gcc entirely
asciilifeform: and onto llvm.
mircea_popescu: can't say rms / gnu is hindering them any.
asciilifeform: what's he to do
mircea_popescu: how's that consideration within my interest ?
mircea_popescu: "what's he to do" only counts for lords of the republic - not of usg peons.
asciilifeform: the man's a living mushroom, i dun think this has a constructive answer
asciilifeform: but i have yet to see mushroom get up and fight.
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/386702/ << in other lulz
mircea_popescu: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/386721/ << o look enumerable and errything
mircea_popescu: do you suppose any sex ever happens in austins room ?
asciilifeform: ..who?
mircea_popescu: 2nd in my link
asciilifeform: aah lel
mircea_popescu: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/384721/ << looks like a great place to take a coupla sluts and some rope/chain
asciilifeform: when i ran evil tor exit, collected a bunch of these
Framedragger: hm. i still run one (low bandwidth), would be interesting to check things i suppose..
asciilifeform: would be interesting to auto-crawl these, apply image transform where you search for flesh tones
phf: hehe, that rsa one is beautiful
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because why, shortage of cunt or what
asciilifeform: ~no good reason, or it'd exist
asciilifeform: but some folx do like unprepared-cunt
mircea_popescu: yeah. sickies.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform for example can't stand the prepared kind.
mircea_popescu: eh, who knew alf were all about surprise seks
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/245507/#camstream << dog pound
Framedragger: given that this is in san francisco, am i looking at a typical californian startup hackaton here?
Framedragger: not enough butt-sniffing, so maybe that's a no.
trinque: also at least one of them appears to be paid for her work
Framedragger: maybe vc funded startup
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/389881 << mircea_popesculandia !
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/168264/#camstream << the strangest i/o relay i've ever seen. lamp is hooked, by all indications, to the 'network contact' box. as is the toggle.
asciilifeform: who said proxy had to be automatic.
phf: pete_dushenskiland in its natural state http://www.insecam.org/en/view/235167/
phf: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/394778/
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/377320/#camstream << wtf
asciilifeform: phf: lol!
phf: this is a proper buenos aires scene http://www.insecam.org/en/view/343710/
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/376032/ << altair !
phf: all these snowy landscapes remind me that i miss snow. i might need to go somewhere cold for a week or two..
asciilifeform: the geoloc leaves something to be desired: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/354705/#camstream << unless it really is beach weather in nyc
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/299252/ < foucault's pendulum..
Framedragger: pretty cool images, some of these. weirdly artistically stimulating
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/239930/#camstream << 'provably fair!11111'
Framedragger: heh, speaking of 'provably fair' and location in question (tallinn), they've been doing e-voting (for all major elections etc) for a few years now. iirc code audits showed weak spots, multiple sek0rity expert teams, advisory bodies etc recommended to shut it down because it was unsafe, but proud estonia knows better.. :p
Framedragger: but it's secure because it's on github and many people have looked and shit https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine
asciilifeform: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/368537/ << parrot ?
Framedragger: README says "the code that can be found here is the code that is used for election" so that's sorted......
asciilifeform: lel, i think i've been here: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/257432/#camstream
asciilifeform: and here: http://www.insecam.org/en/view/211026/
pete_dushenski: phf: looks about right :D
mircea_popescu: Framedragger all bureaucracies prefer evoting for the simple reason that "representative democracy" doesn't work anyway, and evoting is way th fuck cheaper.
mircea_popescu: when hiring astrologer, hire cheapest.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: what kind of graphix card are you plugging in your new eulorabox ? i'm also mid-build and am unsure if meagre nvidia quadro fx 1500 with 256mb is enough steam. curious to see what you'll be using.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski more than enough
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: 1070
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: o ? awesome
asciilifeform: it oughta suffice.
mircea_popescu: the minigame recommended build is geforce gt 600s / radeon hd 6000s or above.
mircea_popescu: these are cca 2006 cards.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: 8gb gfx card ? mega.
asciilifeform: they're inexpensive.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: perfect!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: 0.4 BTC isn't thaaat cheap.
mircea_popescu: https://www.amazon.com/PNY-NVIDIA-GeForce-PCI-Express-VCGGT6302XPB/dp/B00847LDKC moar like .1
asciilifeform: i meant, it's a konsooomer board, not a rarity of whatever kind
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linked item is the minimal board for eulora ?
mircea_popescu: no, it's the recommended.
asciilifeform: aah
mircea_popescu: eulora works fine on, eg "Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile"
mircea_popescu: and all sorts of utter, ancient laptop level crap.
asciilifeform: lel that's a 2d card...
mircea_popescu: ikr?
pete_dushenski: let this therefore be remembered as the time alf pissed away 0.3btc (30mn ecu) on his eulorabox build. but hey, nothing like a little deficit to urge on the bot-crafting imagination! watch alf knock down all four hackathon prizes now.
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe in a few years the gfx level goes way up and it'll turn it into a good investment.
pete_dushenski: aha obsolescence insurance
pete_dushenski: hella expensive insurance mind you, but insurance nonetheless
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's people playing with quadro fx boards, so should be fine.
pete_dushenski: wunderbar. i'd had enough holiday shopping anyways.
jurov: there's (possibly water-related) bug capping fps at ~12 even at some decent setups (such as mine radeon 7790)
jurov: will be hilarious if alf runs into it, too
mircea_popescu: yeah radeon is for some reason iffier fwis.
mircea_popescu: possibly because the client gfx library isn't properly ironed out, tbh.
asciilifeform: jurov: 12?! i played 'quake' on 486-dx2, was approx like this.
mircea_popescu: i have mine capped because otherwise it's 150-200 which... meh.
asciilifeform: and lel, i dun think i said that i planned to ~play~ eulora. just -- build and run !!
jurov: as there's no fighting yet, it's fully playable at 12
mircea_popescu: tbh i'm not a great fan on the twitch frenzy "rts" style. i expect fighting to be a lot closer to the tbs roots of, eg, mm7.
asciilifeform: in other lulz:
asciilifeform: * /usr/portage/dev-lang/gnat-gcc/files/gnat-gcc-4.9.3-make-default-paths-match-slot.patch
asciilifeform: * ( gnat-gcc-4.9.3-make-default-paths-match-slot.patch )
asciilifeform: * ERROR: dev-lang/gnat-gcc-4.9.3::gentoo failed (unpack phase):
asciilifeform: * Cannot find $EPATCH_SOURCE!
asciilifeform: this is pure martian-level surreality: gnat-gcc-...[crapola].patch doesn't exist. but no package takes ownership of it.
asciilifeform: nor is there any sign on www as to why it existed, when, where.
asciilifeform: but EXPECTED!
mircea_popescu: lol. gentoo ftw ?
asciilifeform: it's a tupolev, approximately.
asciilifeform: falls down randomly from the sky, but what else you gonna fly on
mircea_popescu: o look, this is a known bug known since... 2006
asciilifeform: if you dun want to suck boeing cock
mircea_popescu: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-372256-highlight-epatchsource.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not related, same eggog whenever you're missing a patch
asciilifeform: the reason is unique in each case
mircea_popescu: ah
asciilifeform: it's roughly analogous to an unexpectedly orphaned v-tree.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: $box is intended to replace one of my current heathenware boxen -- airgapped machines for winblowz CADs and similar
asciilifeform: i.e. a toilet
pete_dushenski imagines poem about a poop named eulora
asciilifeform: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/12/23/statement-president-signing-national-defense-authorization-act-fiscal << in other lulz, obummer refers to 'my administration will....'
pete_dushenski: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/editorial-cartoon-entitled-moving-day-march-4th-depicts-former-as-picture-id128514577 << "...pack up and gtfo, nobel prize and all"
asciilifeform: 'First, section 507 of the bill would authorize certain cabinet officials to "drop from the rolls" military officers without my approval. The Constitution does not allow Congress to authorize other members of the executive branch to remove presidentially appointed officers, so I will direct my cabinet members to construe the statute as permitting them to remove the commission of a military officer only if the officer accepts their d
asciilifeform: ecision or I approve the removal.' << not spoken quite like a d00d who plans to get off the throne at the appointed hour, now is it.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: recall this is the same 'red line' feller that can't tie his own shoelaces before insinuating that he's anything more than nyc corner meat-on- stick.
pete_dushenski: after 7.9 years of failure to 'yes we can', he's squeezing the last 0.1 to tag the whitehouse walls with 'obummer wuz heer'
pete_dushenski: speaking of tagging, looksee what i spotted at the base of a lamp pole recently : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TRB-everywhere.jpg
mod6: nice
mircea_popescu: lel Three Retters could Be anything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun follow the logix.
mircea_popescu: seems entirely a product of "leakage intensifies, we might have to fire whole army on short notice at this rate"
asciilifeform: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7949-wheel_of_fortune << in other lelz, guess of what 0 mention
ben_vulpes: +4,200 -18,102
ben_vulpes: oh yeah
asciilifeform: and apparently, https://archive.is/eKFGo is still a thing
asciilifeform: 'The Obama administration rolled the executive order out to great fanfare as a way to punish and deter foreign hackers who harm U.S. economic or national security.'
asciilifeform: так победим ! (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: hurr.
mircea_popescu: lol wait, the us is going to "punish" russia ? like last time when they "us&allies embargo on russia sunk the us&allies economy" ?
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do this time, anal sex with marine mammals ? TO PUNISH RUSSIA!!!! ?
mircea_popescu: also, that ccc.de thing doesn't load ?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592214 << entirely possible folx weren't aware of phuctor, it's not exactly advertised much. (then again, cue mp's "they don't have a right/privilege not to be aware"..)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:14 asciilifeform: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7949-wheel_of_fortune << in other lelz, guess of what 0 mention
asciilifeform: suuure
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: media.ccc.de is 195.54.164.138
asciilifeform: devoted readers of boeck, henninger, et al
Framedragger: asciilifeform: you really think everyone in h4cker kommunity is aware of phuctor?
mircea_popescu: the pretense that someone in any way even vaguely involved with crypto is not at this point aware of phuctor is on the level of terrestrial life somehow "not being aware the sun exists".
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yes.
Framedragger: well if you define 'vaguely involved with crypto' as per tmsr-usual "has WoT presence" then yeah
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's a fine lithmus test : doesn't know of phuctor by now, isn't actually involved.
mircea_popescu: not at all.
Framedragger: completing the logical circle :)
mircea_popescu: you can give it your own definition.
asciilifeform: boeck, schneier, the other scum, they -- know
mircea_popescu: as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger think for a second, obscure "students" in obscure "technical universities" know about it
mircea_popescu: moreover, nsa agents in charge of narrative.net THINK it is CREDIBLE that such students would so know.
mircea_popescu: it's a foregone conclusion at this point.
Framedragger: this isis girl in tor reads crypto papers and implements them and runs their bridges infrastructure which uses its own nifty things (hashrings for distributing bridge nodes etc), i'm quite certain she hasn't heard
Framedragger: but maybe i should ping her actually
trinque: lol
trinque: her and marvin moonpie?
mircea_popescu: lol this isis girl in tor
Framedragger: trinque: you referring to moxie i'm guessing :D
Framedragger: oh she's an actually good developer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's some chick (?) with actual handle 'isis'
mircea_popescu: "she" ; "an"
Framedragger: before isis became popular
mircea_popescu: this bear bourbaki makes excellent frappucinos.
mircea_popescu: except for the part where it's "an" or "bear".
Framedragger: you haven't met her in person, you don't know.
Framedragger: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/ << her
Framedragger: lulz including http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-publicly-accuses-fbi-harassment-1558607 etc
mircea_popescu: oh really.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this "one" "girl" on ask.fm has asked many thousands of people whether they heard of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: you haven't met her in person so you don't know.
Framedragger: what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
mircea_popescu: no. what i am saying is that the isis handle is not "a" or "girl".
Framedragger: well look at what she's done if you'd like, i'm not saying you'd have to meet her in person
Framedragger: why?
mircea_popescu: why do i say what i say ? because it's true, what.
Framedragger: her handle is 'isis agora lovecruft', it's a pseudonym, retarded or not, like framedragger
ben_vulpes: "well known figure in github circles"
mircea_popescu: unlike framedragger, however, it's not one dork your age, but a bunch of them.
Framedragger: (obvs i'm not defending her being core part of tor, or tor.)
Framedragger: oh you're saying 'isis' doesn't have a good referent. i agree. she has a pgp key alright.
mircea_popescu: i'm saying isis is as good a referent as FUCKGOATS. have you met him ?
Framedragger: hurr
mircea_popescu: he's a good guy, publishes software.
Framedragger: s/isis/Isis Agora Lovecruft
mircea_popescu: same thing.
Framedragger: (i've met and confirmed owner of this handle)
mircea_popescu: how did you do that ?
Framedragger: oh ffs. meat pgp signing event, for one
mircea_popescu: so you went to a room where a bunch of other kids were and you met this girl who said "hi, i'm isis[agoralovecruft]" ?
Framedragger: person who signed all $project-committed code = person standing in front of me, etc.
trinque: and if you saw hanno shitbag, you'd conclude that you'd met only one person, and not an NSA tendril?
trinque: where's danielpbarron, Framedragger needs help identifying plants by their fruit
Framedragger: person with current root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure = person sitting here and teaching me stuff, etc
mircea_popescu: that i can believe yeah.
Framedragger: (and no it's not a 'formal proof' i know.. :/ )
mircea_popescu: for my own edification, how many people would you think have root access to tor boxen in bridge infrastructure as of say today ?
Framedragger: one
Framedragger: one or two. i know both. the other guy is a guy
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: have you ever wrestled with mp-wp stripping '.' characters from uploaded filenames when there's more than one?
trinque: Framedragger must've used tor at some point, wants very much to believe no one saw him in there.
trinque: sorry bub
Framedragger: they may have even paid me!!11
mircea_popescu: Framedragger one or two huh ? aite.
Framedragger: (actually da truth)
Framedragger: (probably only one tho)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc << i think not
phf: Framedragger: it's always the same with you, "this online personality construct is great" "they do useful research" etc. until they publish "i don't believe in pgp" or really act in any way that you didn't expect. and then you don't have any recourse, because they are online personality constructs. how well do you know this "online researcher" if you ~having spent significant amount of effort to collect and upload ssh keys~ didn't even
phf: chat her up about it.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: cooooool
mircea_popescu: phf the clearing of head is a slow and painful, mostly private process. now he has a definite reference point to come back to later at least.
Framedragger: phf: fair. with regards to chatting up it was more to do with me not being involved with tor anymore; but even that particular still stands, so yes fair
Framedragger: (fwiw i wouldn't defend tptacek as much, at all, but i can see how these framedraggerisms can be related under same umbrella)
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-network-difficulty-continues-climb-rising-2-43-percent-for-yet-another-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Continues Climb Rising ~2.43 Percent For Yet Another All Time High
Framedragger: (also apologies if my continued presence renders a constant source of radiation damage)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the objection is methodological not factual.
mircea_popescu: and dun worry about it, there's no damage, but there are some chuckles here and there.
phf: ^
Framedragger: right. and it's valid, i can't really defend it properly
Framedragger: i did learn that if i don't flush out the funny parts i'll just grow up to be someone with no interior at all. :)
trinque just doesn't wanna see Framedragger befall the result of misplaced trust
mircea_popescu: sadly there's no universal pill for that.
Framedragger: i'm pruning trustleaves slowly, but yeah need another degree of rigour hm
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: would you humor me and upload a genesis.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig and let me know what your mp_wp does?
mircea_popescu: anyway, phf 's notion of "recourse" is a lot more important than directly obvious in context ; it's a direct restatement of the "opposable" concept used in discussing deedbot payment design, and altogetgher the trestlework of sanity in operations.
mircea_popescu: you know what you know in a solid and sustainable way when assumption is backed by recourse.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well ima try whatever multidot random file a sec
mircea_popescu: and that's the entire point of the forum as it works and the other things as they develop - to make recourse in assumption not merely possible, but a matter of course.
mircea_popescu: it is this that distinguishes human from tv-consumer, be the tv delivered over analog cable or digital cable as "www".
asciilifeform: https://github.com/isislovecruft/python-gnupg/issues/169 << re 'isis lovecruft' :
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/slutmoth.jpg <<< apparently it purges dots other than last o.O it turns out whenever i try that i get pissed off, curse, then upload via sftp.
ben_vulpes: oh
ben_vulpes: cool
asciilifeform: 'Code page conversion renders binary files unusable during encryption #169' 'Oh god. I don't know what to do here. Unencoded or differently-encoded data needs to undergo this conversion. However, there's no way to detect valid unicode… it's essentially arbitrary binary. I'm at a loss for what to do here, and open to suggestions.'
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this anyway.
ben_vulpes: looks like what i see as well
Framedragger: that's not an altogether bad attitude now, is it. but yes she's paying for using python 3
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you patch it lemme know.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu : fwiw i never used wp's uploadtron, never wanted to, and configure my wp in such a way that all files on disk are read-only.
asciilifeform: and ditto all dirs.
mircea_popescu: this is perfectly doable.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: quite trivially doable
asciilifeform: Framedragger: she is not 'paying for python3' but earning that luscious paycheque from hitler.
asciilifeform: doing exactly what she was put to do.
mircea_popescu: that'd be a matter of perspective now wouldn't it!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's iron algo is merciless and applicable : '$critter is Genuine 313333337 h4xx00r' 'really, where was he when we broke 1700 rsa keys in one night' '...'
asciilifeform: where was he, she, it, zhe, the next morning? the week after ?
asciilifeform: derping about crapple ? about yahoo ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, defense of the "busy elsewhere" line does utterly require them ~to have done something~. which... "oh, i existed" isn't a doing.
asciilifeform: quite
Framedragger: but it is a bit funny how all of these "is element part of this precious set" functions defined in tmsr yield elements only from tmsr. you'd say that's not a problem, but you know.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: we had that finnish d00d
asciilifeform: for a week or so.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually i dunno if you read the first lordship list thing, but this is there.
mircea_popescu: "the statement isn't made these are the best - the statement is made these are good. let any other good in their own mind prove this in their own ways."
Framedragger: asciilifeform: airgap solution guy or someone else? just curious
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that *is* a nice way of putting it. but then, it's a much weaker assertion than "define cryptoperson as someone who's heard of phuctor" :)
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact it does - because nothing remarkable happened in 2016.
asciilifeform: !#seen kmalkki
a111: 2016-10-15 <kmalkki> apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair
mircea_popescu: so if they weren't there - they weren't.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: ^him
asciilifeform: the sageprobe d00d
Framedragger: ahh right!
asciilifeform: he found my www, which was -- and remains -- the only place on entire planet where there is public data re the probe.
asciilifeform: (that -- plus now the l0gz here.)
asciilifeform: then came here.
asciilifeform: then vanished.
mircea_popescu: naked girl on heels with banana in hand walking purposefully across room. /me laughs, she's all "what!" "are you going to eat that ?" "yes i'm going to eat it!"
mircea_popescu: the life and times.
mircea_popescu: "Complicating matters, the Trump transition team has not yet had extensive briefings with the White House on cybersecurity issues, including the potential use of the cyber sanctions order. The slow pace has caused consternation among officials, who fear that the administration’s accomplishments in cyber­­security could languish if the next administration fails to understand their value." << lulz. aren't they sweet with th
mircea_popescu: eir "only reason anyone could think us irrelevant would be them being uneducated!"
mircea_popescu: "gotta educate everyone as to our importance!!111"
asciilifeform: 'cyber sanctions'
mircea_popescu: no longer allowed to have cyber sex!
mircea_popescu shall bbl.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592260 << 'does crypto' lol☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:50 Framedragger: what i'm saying is that she actually does crypto. if you shift goalposts, whatever
asciilifeform: (broke a cryptosystem? designed one ? implemented one ? hell, served time in a salt mine with 'cryptographers', at least ? any ? which ?)
Framedragger: site:https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-reports/ isis
asciilifeform comes upon first mention of the handle, https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-reports/2016-December/001113.html , and reads:
asciilifeform: 'Began implementing the crypto needed for the social distributor, as well as writing documentation describing it. [0] [1] In light of the history of attacks on pairing-friendly curves combined with the recent pseudo-MOV attack which solves discrete logarithms in the embedding field of the pairing (where the embedding field is of small degree), [2] I decided to avoid pairings altogether and use an attribute-based credential scheme bas
asciilifeform: ed on algebraic MACs. [3] The construction of this scheme required a library for working with points on an elliptic curve, [4] which Henry de Valence and I have implemented in Rust, using a curve25519 in Edwards form. Henry has made more detailed announcement of our curve25519-dalek library on the curves mailing list, [5] and our documentation is also available online. [6]'
Framedragger: she wrote current version of, and afaik (maybe old info) still maintains tor bridge infrastructure. at the very least includes saltmining with 'cryptographers' and implementing their ideas (not whole cryptosystems), unless saltmine implies academia
asciilifeform: it saddens me to befoul the l0gz with this, but it needs to be here.
asciilifeform: ecc ? check. shitlangs ? check. noxious pediwikian style? check.
Framedragger: come on now, rust is not necessarily a shitlang. :)
Framedragger: and ecc, i wonder where your wrath was towards bitcoin, in that regard. (i am aware that you were never a bitcoin enthusiast tho, so there's that)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: see l0gz.
Framedragger: aha well ok
asciilifeform goes to find out wtf is 'attribute-based credential scheme'
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/vpatch-adding-multi-channel-support-for-trinques-ircbot-and-logbot << CH - vpatch adding multi-channel support for trinque's ircbot and logbot
asciilifeform: 'In most computer-related scientific work a digital identity is considered to be a set of characteristics describing certain properties about an individual. This set is dynamic, and depends on the context in which the individual is known. The attribute-based credential technology implements this model; see for instance [Camenisch et al., 2011,Alpár and Jacobs, 2013]. Personal characteristics, such as age, name, social security numbe
asciilifeform: r, credit card number as well as more mundane data, like hair colour and favourite dish, are called attributes in this model. Some of these attributes are not identifying (e.g. age or hair colour) whereas others are (e.g. name or social security number). An attribute-based credential is a cryptographic container for attributes represented as integers. The two most important technologies that realise attribute based credentials are Mi
asciilifeform: crosoft’s U-Prove [Brands, 2000,Brands, 2010] and IBM’s Idemix [Camenisch and Lysyanskaya, 2001,Security Team, IBM Research, 2012]. Currently, the European ABC4Trust project...'
trinque: neato ben_vulpes !
asciilifeform: 'Technically, an ABC is signed by an issuer using a special digital signature to provide specific security and privacy properties....'
mats: lol asciilifeform
asciilifeform: (koning et al, 'The ABC of ABC')
asciilifeform: looks like a rerun of oooooooooold movie, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-02#1084135 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-04-02 14:58 asciilifeform: 'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t
asciilifeform: they changed the name.
asciilifeform: because this... works. somehow.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-29#1550178 << the definitive thread re subj.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-29 14:55 asciilifeform: (in actuality, in 'identity-based' crypto, folks actually encipher to a pubkey that is produced by F(Pc, X) where Pc is the chump's email addr and X is a public key of the great inca; chump (email addr holder) can decipher with his Pk_c private key, and so can the inca.
ben_vulpes: standby 2, there's more coming on that post
asciilifeform: now, back to Framedragger's gurl, 'This work is potentially applicable to other OTF and internet freedom projects, including Tor (if we ever allow linking against Rust code) and Signal. After a meeting with Trevor Perrin, we've also added to our todo list (probably after this project is done, so with alternate funding) to incorporate into curve25519-dalek some additional functionality required for the Signal protocol.'
asciilifeform: do we need more of this, or is the verdict clear.
Framedragger: i wasn't going to show that she was doing good crypto. but this is definitely doing crypto :) (unless goalposts shifted again, etc)
asciilifeform: and lol, they have an ' isabela at riseup.net ' ?!!!
asciilifeform: !#s riseup
a111: 21 results for "riseup", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=riseup
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537389 <<☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 17:21 asciilifeform: in other noose, remember the 'riseup' derpatron? the one with the, what, dozen phuctur pops ? well, https://archive.is/PEVaX
trinque: yeah but asciilifeform, https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/907241
asciilifeform: what's that
trinque: her legz!1!11
asciilifeform: could be pete_dushenski's legz for all i know.
asciilifeform: needs more ABClegcredentialsystem!
asciilifeform: moar permissioned signature!
ben_vulpes: aight, trinque updated
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this is 'doing crypto' like a hobo throwing up in the hallway of university physics dept. where he was let in from the cold, barfing and liquishitting before making it to the toilet, is 'doing physics'
trinque: ben_vulpes: very nice
trinque back later, after hoon in candidate truck
ben_vulpes: hoon dems
asciilifeform: except hobo is far above, he is unpretentious, and unmistakable
ben_vulpes: if you don't bottom it out it's not a proper test drive
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that looks to be potentially very spiffy.
Framedragger: seems distinct from http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592238 to me.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:46 mircea_popescu: as long as it's not "sits in front of cctv shows on '''cryptography'''" it works.
Framedragger: not arguing re pretentiousness
asciilifeform: understand, folx who associate with tor, are a riotous laugh
asciilifeform: at one time ~i, personally~ was logging a small double digit % of all tor traffic.
asciilifeform: not even nsa, or whoever. but asciilifeform , with own hands.
asciilifeform: it was a snore. but srsly, these people.
asciilifeform: the nerve. 'doing crypto'.
asciilifeform: (you can do this experiment yourself, it is not difficult, just takes a few thou. usd / mo.)
asciilifeform: exercise for the reader, how.
asciilifeform: it'll also go great with mircea_popescu's 'uci' and similar.
Framedragger just discovered http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema , ohey nice and useful
asciilifeform: and every other sybiltronic system run by wotless idiots.
asciilifeform: tor, prb, etc.
asciilifeform: can be given same treatment.
Framedragger: sure, no argument there.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: yeah, formal announcement...sometime
ben_vulpes: lacking ACTION lines as of right now
ben_vulpes: ty, anyways
ben_vulpes: also mimisbrunnr irc component isn't wired up to do the talmudic recitals, so...
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, yes, the tor derps are gonna move to permissioned nodes ('wanna run tor relay ? get 'anonymous' privkey signed by this-here-chixxxxx0r-with-niiice-legs, first!')
asciilifeform: and so will the prb imbeciles, once we start sybiling them to death
asciilifeform: or even prior.
asciilifeform: it's the only stratagem the inca is capable of: the 'star topology'
asciilifeform: l'etat c'est moi!
asciilifeform: !#s star topology
a111: 13 results for "star topology", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=star%20topology
ben_vulpes: odd to see gribble having such troubles