log
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asciilifeform: exists in ~0 dwellings in usa, at least in ~nothing built since 1970s (speaking here strictly of residential bldgs)
mircea_popescu: 2 types of bum : he who lives in hovel where can see the stars through the ceiling, and he who lives in hovel where can touch the ceiling.
asciilifeform: in usa, ~everyone (save for 'old money' rockefeller types) are at best #2bum
asciilifeform: though oddly enough, the hovels where i lived as a student were old enough to have proper ceilings !
mircea_popescu: whole buildings of type 3 still exist here, unmolested since the 60s
asciilifeform: yeah complete with old ru-made locks
mircea_popescu: back when middle class was quite pointedly != bum yet.
asciilifeform: (tru story!11)
mircea_popescu: yup.
ben_vulpes: i grew up in one of those houses
ben_vulpes: do not live in one now
BingoBoingo: 660 watt max at 250 VAC for GE "Medium Base Keyless White Porcelain Lampholder" which is basic $6 flat ceramic disk with bulb socket
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1597088 << (happy (many) return)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 21:13 phf: it's safe to save 66.35.48.19 for glyf.org, it's been the same ip for the past 10 years or so. in fact, assuming this is not some weird overflow issue, today is a birthday on glyf.org machine. 2048 days uptime
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's ok, it's because upwards mobility, see? you can now touch ceilings your parents couldn't.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i think you mean (return (many happy))
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it isn't the lamp that catches fire
mircea_popescu: let's diff.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: glorious socialist wasteland of stealing the stolen from
ben_vulpes: but hey, at least standard deduction is going to 24k for the married men
mircea_popescu: i thought you lived with two women.
ben_vulpes: no?
asciilifeform: i also thought!
mircea_popescu: aok then
asciilifeform: why did i think this
ben_vulpes: no.
ben_vulpes: why did you all think this?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz he keeps saying things that go perfectly with it ? i dunno.
ben_vulpes: can't pretend to visit mistress when wife is in same haus
asciilifeform: aha, he has the air of a 2-engined fella
mircea_popescu: see ?
mircea_popescu: YOU JUST DID IT!
ben_vulpes: it says nothing of living omgwtfbbq
mircea_popescu: if you say "can't pretend to visit mistress when wife is in same haus" the parser wil lsettle on "that's because wife and girl share a bedroom."
ben_vulpes: mistress is 90% joke anyways! tell wife going to visit mistress, save time on mistress at shop!
mircea_popescu: it's ok ben jewes, you can tell us.
ben_vulpes: only one woman in my house i swears.
mircea_popescu deduces mistress is a boy. LOGIC PREVAILS.
ben_vulpes: most of the time at least
asciilifeform: oh i know how this knot is cut:
ben_vulpes: i snort derisively at you mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes has one chick, but WITH HYPERTHREADING
ben_vulpes: aka "multiple personality disorder"
mircea_popescu: is he like, a duck ? has threaded business tool ?
ben_vulpes: let me check
ben_vulpes: maybe!
ben_vulpes: my gut is hanging over it, can't tell anymore
mircea_popescu: ~you~ have a gut ?
mircea_popescu: the world is at an end.
ben_vulpes: that'd be the joke, yes
mircea_popescu: aok.
ben_vulpes: "it's fighting PUNCH not fighting PAUNCH you nincompoops!"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1597100 << this is not actually true, ftr. back in the days of unfloated double-panel with gas separator, you could get plenty sunburnt in the northern solaria domes during their pathetic excuse for a summer.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 21:53 asciilifeform: ~0 of which gets through typical lamp dome, just as nobody gets sunburn from sitting near a window indoors.
asciilifeform: domes!
asciilifeform: not window
asciilifeform: (yes it does not absorb 100%)
asciilifeform: a small angle makes for fat diff in atmosphere b/w you and sun, consider how beach umbrella worx.
asciilifeform: (angle from vertical)
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is a thing of the 70s, mostly gone now. the modern northern "window" is so insulating as you couldn't believe.
asciilifeform just measured another led lamp, 0 at 5cm.
asciilifeform: of uv.
asciilifeform: (for this sensor, anything below 400nm)
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/KxvRD << sadly for the credibility of the us "intelligence community", 134.249.139.239 was doing web/blog spam back in 2014.
asciilifeform: open proxy or wut
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1597130 << meanwhile low efficiency incandescents i bought 18 month ago in 3s because seemed like novelty item and will die in mere months STILL MARCH ON☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 23:46 asciilifeform: led lamp makers are scamming folx left and right in entirely nonsubtle ways (i just unscrewed 5th dead '20 year life!111' bulb this year, none were older than ~1y)
mircea_popescu: having menawhile colored their glass a very superb tint of rose through metal deposition
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1597139 << quite this, actually. i never "recycle" in the sense of give for free. straight into kitchen trash it all goes. let them learn how to pay.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 23:48 asciilifeform: one reason is that the chumps often submit'em, for free, for 'recycle', and the lamp house gets to sell ~same motherfucking lamp N times
ben_vulpes: http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kw2kn8Aead1qzpam5o1_1280.jpg << "with powerstache and fighting paunch!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wonder if they have prisoners sift through rubbish in search of lamps yet.
mircea_popescu: let 'em.
mircea_popescu: somehow - they will pay. i ain't giving jack for free.
mircea_popescu: all this "oh, we're all friends" bs is for the dogs. i ain't fiatola's friend.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: aha yes i play the exact opposite game. "oh, the recycling bin is the big one? great, that's where everything goes."
asciilifeform: i do different thing -- mail the lamps back, with a note about considering www article re rubbish lamp, and inviting maker to consider honouring the warranty
asciilifeform: the result, curiously enough, is ~two~ new units, about 6 months later, in each case
mircea_popescu: heh, they're doing the whole "portland the spacestation, only so much volume available" thign there huh
asciilifeform: (now, they ALSO burn after 6mo. so not all that useful.)
mircea_popescu: evidently you got one of the recycled.
mircea_popescu: yes, "manufacturer thought things through", but not in the sense usually contemplated.
asciilifeform: 'let's give'im that one SPESHUL horse'
asciilifeform: (tm) (r) (mircea_popescu)
mircea_popescu: ah, the cairo thing ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: idiots. who the fuck do they think they are, seriously, buncha inept alt-white people.
asciilifeform: soft-white!
mircea_popescu: "oh, he's not from around here, which means we can't live in his house but NEITHER CAN HE IN OURS! because that's how white man supremacy works, totally!"
asciilifeform: (lampism esoterica. 'soft white' is the trade name for the faux-incandescent phosphor variant led)
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the duck pond, http://68.media.tumblr.com/97461d3414b20d53eb11a08ddf547d83/tumblr_mva0e1uGFJ1ra4o0oo1_1280.jpg
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/fuck-white-people-pack-of-native-chicagoans-torture-captive-white-boy/ << Qntra - "Fuck White People": Pack Of Native Chicagoans Torture Captive White Boy
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (now, they ALSO burn after 6mo. so not all that useful.) << Have you hunted for miswired low voltage hvac or door bell transformers? I had a "bulb killing fixture" that was tamed by removing backfeeding noisy ass doorbell transformer.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no such thing here.
asciilifeform: this place didn't even have a doorbell until i put in chinese battery-powered thing
BingoBoingo: And furnace/blower?
asciilifeform: ditto
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i do have a voltage plotter here, though.
asciilifeform: runs 24/7
asciilifeform: 126.4 v (rms) peak for last 12 months.
BingoBoingo: "How capactive is your swamp?"
mircea_popescu: honestly i have nfi what a "doorbell" is for. police doesn't knock anymore anyway and everyone else should make a fucking appointment.
mircea_popescu: who receives people off the street randomly ?
asciilifeform: people, nobody
asciilifeform: mail.
mircea_popescu: doorbell for mail ?
asciilifeform: for parcels
mircea_popescu: why'd you receive mail personally anyway.
asciilifeform: not everybody has a guard booth with servant chilling his bones by the antitank ditch on the edge of the dirigible field.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's different for collectors huh.
asciilifeform: btw, bonus tip for tuned-in folx, it dun hurt to have a number of cameras pointed at door- or window-shaped holes in your dwelling, some of which are prominent, and might depend on mains current, but others -- not so prominent, and do not, and do not write to the net or to any place you can get to other than by demolishing whole bldg
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> honestly i have nfi what a "doorbell" is for. police doesn't knock anymore anyway and everyone else should make a fucking appointment. << apparently they are for backfeeding current into switched circuits they are wired off of when said circuits are "off"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i saw interesting variant of this, with the selfsame led bulbs, where a dead lamp would light for about 1/2 second after the live one connected in tandem switched (from wall switch) off !
asciilifeform: not enough of a spike to propagate down the wire to where i have the plotter
asciilifeform: but enough to push the 'dead' cap-less unit over the edge, briefly.
BingoBoingo: Count wires in junction box and enter attic to view from above?
asciilifeform: view what
BingoBoingo: wires entering an exiting box
asciilifeform: it's a standard american 15amp circuit
BingoBoingo: No such thing in residential because previous tenants or owners "Pro Idiotas"
asciilifeform: in so far as can tell with naked eye, and with the sensors, it was built 'by the book'.
asciilifeform: speaking of shit wiring, thermovisor will show you some very interesting things in an old house.
asciilifeform: (will also show you who, or what, is alive in parked vans, but best observed quietly)
BingoBoingo: In so far as many magnetic studfinders can tell, galvanized pipe and emt conduit are promising places to drill and screw
asciilifeform: lul didja read the thing backwards or wat
asciilifeform: and they're densitometric not magnetic, wtf
BingoBoingo: Studfinders? Nah magnet on a pivot that "catches" on ferrous metal like nails
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo's is from 19th c or wat
BingoBoingo sometimes doesn't care to make 9v battery run just because fancy studfinder was thirsty
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/hand-tools/layout-tools/dewalt-wall-scanner-teardown_o
BingoBoingo: !~google "johnson stud finder plus"
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Amazon.com: Johnson Level & Tool 160 Stud Finder Plus : Home ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-160-Finder/dp/B00004T808>; Customer Reviews: Johnson Level & Tool 160 Stud Finder Plus: <https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-160-Finder/product-reviews/B00004T808>; Johnson Stud Finder Plus -160 - The Home Depot: <http://www.homedepot.com/p/Johnson-Stud-Finder-Plus-160/10021
BingoBoingo: !~google stanley 47-400
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Stanley 47-400 Magnetic Stud Finder - Stud Finders And Scanning ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-47-400-Magnetic-Stud-Finder/dp/B0000BYD3K>; Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Stanley 47-400 Magnetic Stud ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-47-400-Magnetic-Stud-Finder/product-reviews/B0000BYD3K>; Magnetic Stud Finder - 47-400 | STANLEY Tools: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: Stanley 47-400 is best studfinder by company which produced monster sensortron asciilifeform linked
asciilifeform: aha if you like drilling into yer pipes.
BingoBoingo: That's what measuring tape is for, to check where stud ought to be
asciilifeform: 'ought to' is of limited use.
asciilifeform: incidentally thermovisor will also show you studs
asciilifeform: (exercise for reader, to understand why)
BingoBoingo: studs are thermally conductive relative to every else that should be in wall
asciilifeform: aha
BingoBoingo: brb, sobertime
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://www.crimeflare.com/russia.html
mircea_popescu: and in other screwfinders, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4ccdbcb8853d915d593ca4dcab9fdb55/tumblr_o51sb9U9kq1upevjso1_1280.png
mircea_popescu: or was it studfinders.
asciilifeform: gotta love fleanode
asciilifeform: apparently my nick is 'never registered' on somewhere b/w 1/2 to 2/3 of all fleanode boxen
mircea_popescu: be less terrorist.
asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله!
ben_vulpes: oh cool
ben_vulpes: naively, i figured cp simply overwrote the target
ben_vulpes: no it's all clever and shit
ben_vulpes: no-clobber options, delete-target options
ben_vulpes: i'm sure it's all very useful in the prevention of foot-shoosting but ugh
mircea_popescu: there's prolly a "stfu" switch
ben_vulpes: what i want is a "bitch do the obvious thing" switch
mircea_popescu: heh
ben_vulpes: > Eshell does not support input redirection
ben_vulpes: k, never using that again
mircea_popescu: wtf is that!
ben_vulpes: mod6: what was the reasoning behind http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles#L378 again?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: one of the several emacs shell thingers
mircea_popescu: nuts, "this calender doesn't support pasta". wtf is it even there then
ben_vulpes: my jimmies ain't even rustled, par for the course
ben_vulpes: mod6: on previous thread, i have a vague memory of stuffing a RELEASE stanza in every file of a release to neck the tree down
ben_vulpes: well of discussing said stanza
ben_vulpes: anyways this came to my attention when i had the privkey tools vpatch on my table and it showed up *above* makefiles.vpatch in the output of both our flow utils, which spooked me
ben_vulpes: so i cracked everything open, and sure enough the patch in question doesn't touch any files touched in the makefiles vpatch
ben_vulpes: open topic for when folks wake up i suppose.
ben_vulpes: also what's the deal with these single-tx blocks http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate#46
mircea_popescu: these happen occasionally, what about 'em ?
mircea_popescu: but as to the other thing, i'm not sure i follow. your v inverted patch flow ?
ben_vulpes: eh, the leaving of free money on the ground baffles me.
mircea_popescu: yeah i can't say i have a very good model of why it happens.
ben_vulpes: not inverted, as far as i can tell it's a fine place in the flow for it to be. i'm a bit discomfited, and am poking an old thread about "release vpatches" that seems to have surfaced unexplainedly in the makefiles vpatch
mircea_popescu gives it even odds this ends up with a "include prev hash in comments in files".
ben_vulpes: you advocated this at one other point too, right?
mircea_popescu: ah not at all as advocacy.
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing it as a solution ; i'm not even sure exactly what you're talking about. just lulzing to self.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you see http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles#L378 ?
mircea_popescu: i do.
BingoBoingo: Self lulz is still masterbation
mircea_popescu: so there's a version comment there, what of it ?
davout: ohai
mircea_popescu: hola
ben_vulpes: notion, iirc, was to make a "release" vpatch that added *something* to *every file in the tree* to neck the patch graph down
ben_vulpes: morning davout
mircea_popescu: i recall this being proposed but im not sure if it ever was accepted.
ben_vulpes: yeah i'm in the same boat.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem of "how to sort two patches which alter entirely disjuncts subsets of the file set" is not exactly clear. unless they declare how they prefer to be sorted.
mircea_popescu: it's also not clear such sorting is meaningful in principle.
ben_vulpes: aye
ben_vulpes: i'm not particularly bent about the sorting, 'twas simply what made me look at the linked stanzas in curiosity. curious about "what of it", as you say.
Framedragger: from glyf.org source, '<meta name="ICBM" content="39.083611, -77.148333" />' << rockville town square, ~15mi north of washington, dc :p
davout: asciilifeform: was there a thread re the side-channel attacks on openssl's ecdsa signature?
davout: from where i stand it seems to me that trb would be vulnerable to it when signing transactions
davout: which, incidentally, seems like yet another very good reason to fully exfiltrate the wallet
mircea_popescu: aha.
Framedragger: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p "I cannot presently maintain a connection to IRC." << get a bouncer ffs. ping me if you'd like a free one
jhvh1: Framedragger: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: you'd think.
Framedragger: it's a well known fact that an unbalanced high number of parentheses results in irc ping timeouts.
deedbot: lies, I tell ya!
Framedragger: :O MIT 1960s A.I. & lisp frenzy, a reboot
trinque: good morning all
Framedragger: mornin' :)
davout: trinque: hai
mircea_popescu: in other "muslim invasion" lulz : http://ask.fm/QueennnNAL ; now we play the game where you find me aryan malmo resident as hawt.
mircea_popescu: it MAY BE that the muslim wave actually improves female livestock on the old & wrinkly continent.
mircea_popescu: http://akphoto2.ask.fm/ac9/ab927/e61a/4cd9/af0f/0976afeff767/original/653401.jpg pic related.
Framedragger: OT, anyone's done an egpu rig on an x220? i'm probably gonna do an abonimation, and connect an nvidia card to x220 via its expresscard slot. there's this antichrist-like adapter (http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4C%20V2.1.html) which does the magic. bottleneck is expresscard (5 gbps or somesuch) but if one uses external monitor, it's all pretty good apparently.
Framedragger: (not worth if you have a really high end gfx card tho - waste of money)
mircea_popescu: yeah external monitor plugged into external card works.
Framedragger: aha, otherwise too much bandwidth gfx card <-> cpu apparently
mircea_popescu: yes
Framedragger: ever done something like that? :) portable rig is portable.
Framedragger: (changing countries come this summer)
mircea_popescu: well, the bus becomes congested, it's not really designed to bridge north and south like that.
Framedragger: right :)
mircea_popescu: and yes i have. not particularly portable, but at some point people in $not-mentioned were offering "plug your laptop into the monitor" style videoconferencing
Framedragger: right, i can see how that can be bundled up into a business product.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597384 << i used a similar device to connect fpga card to thinkpad, coupla years ago☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 12:42 Framedragger: OT, anyone's done an egpu rig on an x220? i'm probably gonna do an abonimation, and connect an nvidia card to x220 via its expresscard slot. there's this antichrist-like adapter (http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4C%20V2.1.html) which does the magic. bottleneck is expresscard (5 gbps or somesuch) but if one uses external monitor, it's all pretty good apparently.
asciilifeform: it worx (they come with varying number of bus lanes, see how many in yours)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597368 << more than one thread. ~which~ side channel are you interested in, davout ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 11:19 davout: asciilifeform: was there a thread re the side-channel attacks on openssl's ecdsa signature?
asciilifeform: Framedragger, mircea_popescu : apparently nowadays you can buy 'thunderbolt' to pcie expanders, if the machine has this plug. (i have not tested this variant.)
asciilifeform: theoretically x16 pcie!
Framedragger: asciilifeform: k, good to know, thanks. it's just one bus lane afaict (pci express x1), ExpressCard 2.0, so 'double' the bandwidth i take it. 4-5gbps total
asciilifeform: (full bus speed!)
mircea_popescu: yeah pcie is becoming quite the proverbial tower of piles.
Framedragger: (i want to connect my x220 which does not have thunderb0lt)
asciilifeform: the other 'abuse tool' you can get is internal pcie to external slot snake
asciilifeform: if you are willing to work with an open arse
Framedragger: ah yeah. there was an old 3g modem plugged into internal pcie, i removed it. pretty lulzy
mircea_popescu: anyway, major point here being "how expensive" is not a good criteria for card. either dig up in the specs or use the cards ppl runnign the thing ask you to
mircea_popescu: laptop, idem.
davout: asciilifeform: none in particular while discussing trb, "trb uses openssl, which is vulnerable to side channel attacks" came up
Framedragger: right.
asciilifeform: davout: side channel isn't magic, you gotta actually ~have~ the side channel
davout: yeah in the sense be on the same box, or physically close
mircea_popescu: more than one mactards threw hissy fit becase "I R HAS GOOD LAPTOP" "dude... it sucks, we can't tell you that it sucks politely, BUT IT DOES."
asciilifeform: e.g., knowing how much power, to the microamp, victim is drawing; or time; etc
mircea_popescu: in the "but do you know who mai father is and why is hybrid mini not also boatcar!!1"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phakt, i replicated phuctor on a mac lappy (it happened to be the one in the room with sufficient free disk) and it works -- except that apparently gdb no longer works on latest crapple os
asciilifeform: because... guess....
asciilifeform: MANDATORY CODE SIGNING
mircea_popescu: i dunno, they had to make space for java machine ?
mircea_popescu: ah. lmao.
asciilifeform: i shit thee not
mircea_popescu: they're insane if they seriously imagine their tivo dumbassery has better chances this time around. but w/e, they DO imagine.
davout: asciilifeform: didn't experience that, what i did experience was "oh no, can't install valgrind because fuck you"
mircea_popescu: "3d experience!!1 AGAIN!!11"
asciilifeform: davout: anything that uses debug hooks, catches fire & dies
mircea_popescu: why the everloving would you valgrind on a laptop ?
asciilifeform: there was some supposed workaround involving self-generated ssl certs but it dun wurk
mircea_popescu: you're the worst sort of engineers, i swear, the kind who calculate tomato production of balcony and are proud to wash their teeth with a motorcycle engine adaptation contraption.
davout: mircea_popescu: finding memory leaks? uninitialized memory accesses etc? helps when teaching oneself c++
mircea_popescu: USE A COMPUTER
mircea_popescu: laptops aren't computers. they're not even female computers, they're toy computers.
asciilifeform: i should add, the crapple was also the fastest box i had available locally.
asciilifeform: (all of my full-sized mircea_popescu-style comps are 'bearded', this comes with using pre-obummer amd iron.)
mircea_popescu: like what ? something like amd fx 9500 is, i bet, way ahead anything apple ever put in anything they made.
mircea_popescu: and it costs a coupla hundy not a coupla grand, either.
davout: !!rate jurov 4 met IRL, does what he says he will do.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/IRNh8/?raw=true
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fx is not a ecc chip
mircea_popescu: wait, what, and crapple is ecc ?
asciilifeform: (neither is the crapple)
mircea_popescu: so then wtf holy shit omfg.
mircea_popescu: alfisms.
davout: !!v BD384F58F7B6D80557DBC7EFEF8786B5E305239E6A7768683578F0FD9C728BBA
deedbot: davout updated rating of jurov from 3 to 4 << met IRL, does what he says he will do.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a 'modern' chip, and fritzed.
asciilifeform: or hm, 9500 is not!
asciilifeform: what it is, is the konsoomer version of the opteron i actually have in the box i am sitting on nao!
mircea_popescu: ima just sit here and glare at you.
asciilifeform: so what mircea_popescu just recommended was 'buy the same box that was too slow, but sans ecc'...
asciilifeform: and no, unfortunately it does ~not~ beat the 2016 crapple.
asciilifeform: on any parameter but hygiene.
asciilifeform: also to be absolutely rigorously correct, 'phenom' series ~could~ be coaxed into using ecc ram, but only 'unbuffered' variant (so no 16-stick monster rig). what it wouldn't do is to run in multisocket mobo (which is what i use)
asciilifeform: as for the crapple, it has roughly half of the cpu horse as dulap.
mircea_popescu: oh come on. what's in the crapple ?
asciilifeform: (and yes, a lappy)
mircea_popescu: 6360U ?
asciilifeform: i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz
mircea_popescu: lmao ffs.
mircea_popescu: phenom is 2x that bus, ftr.
mircea_popescu: twice the cache, twice the cores, what the shit are you on about.
asciilifeform: best amd box i have is a 2socket x 2393SE.
mircea_popescu: so then. you probably need a dozen bridged crapples to touch the amd box.
mircea_popescu: and of course it'll fall over every 15.5 microseconds
asciilifeform: sadly this is not so in practice.
mircea_popescu: dude... explain what singularity you live in where a half the bus clock half the cores half the cache ONE QUARTER POWER chip is still, somehow, better.
asciilifeform: the one where one box has ddr2 and the other ddr3 possible.
asciilifeform: *possibly
mircea_popescu: at what is it better, at making you feel part of maga ?
mircea_popescu: the amd has dd3 2133
mircea_popescu: whereas the i 4870 has ddr3 1600
asciilifeform: i dun use ddr3 on hygienic boxes.
asciilifeform: it rowhammers.
mircea_popescu: so then wtf.
mircea_popescu: "oh, it's better in this thing i dont use"
asciilifeform: if you buy ddr3 you may as well stuff it full of 'xeon'
asciilifeform: (a la dulap)
mircea_popescu: well, you evidently have.
asciilifeform: i realized that this is comical a while back and started building a new 'toilet' box , but it isn't done yet.
asciilifeform: (behind schedule , behind 3 other things!)
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. laptops, not serious computers, 2016 like 2006 like 1996. end of story already.
asciilifeform: the crapple is ~impossible to do anything serious on. wtf, gdb
asciilifeform: and yeah lappy is to actual comp as sapper's spade is to excavator.
asciilifeform: but gotta compare to same-period comp.
mircea_popescu: the amd is about 6 months OLDER than your intel.
asciilifeform: in my case, 6 years
mircea_popescu: i7 4870 was released mid 2014 ; the amd mid 2013 if memory serves.
asciilifeform: 2393 SE ( https://archive.is/4XXYQ ) circa 2009. so actually ~8 !
mircea_popescu: i thought you said...
asciilifeform: ok to be perfectly clear, i compared 2 boxes, one -- the aforementioned crapple, one -- a 2x2393SE.
mircea_popescu: ah. yes i guess 2016 apple laptop compares favourably to cheap-side 2009 desktop.
mircea_popescu: as i somehow doubt you spent 2k to build that box in 2009.
asciilifeform: funnily enough it was approx 2k of 2016-printolade's worth.
mircea_popescu: i guess if you bought it when it came out the opteron was like 1k or some shit.
asciilifeform: (must point out, though, opteron was not a cheap-side chip, and the mobo that ate it -- also was not, was top-of-the-line in amd world)
mircea_popescu: so yeah, this was top of line in 2009.
asciilifeform: i get'em used, because they are ~indestructible. but yes.
mircea_popescu: neways. moral i guess being, stock up on above fxen, they're great and quite possibly the last good chip in human history.
asciilifeform: if you run 1socket rigs -- them
asciilifeform: otherwise -- opteron
asciilifeform: (which happily lives in 'harem' of up to 32 iirc.)
mircea_popescu: which ?
asciilifeform: more or less any pre-2011 opteron.
mircea_popescu: but yes, i was thinking for domestic desktop.
mircea_popescu: say a name alfie.
asciilifeform: the 2393se is the newest one i've personally tested.
asciilifeform: incidentally this is a good small research project -- 'what was the last pre-fritzing opteron'
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: slowly building the "tmsr hardware" thing. iirc there was another item also
mircea_popescu: what was it, raid controller ?
asciilifeform: i like 3ware. but it will also never win any speed contest.
asciilifeform: (no sata3.)
asciilifeform: while we're in cpuwank mode, 'The Intel Core i7-7700K is what happens when a chip company stops trying. The i7-7700K is the first desktop Intel chip in brave new post-"tick-tock" world—which means that instead of major improvements to architecture, process, and instructions per clock (IPC), we get slightly higher clock speeds and a way to decode DRM-laden 4K streaming video. Huzzah.'
asciilifeform: ( from arse tech, https://archive.is/tJyF6 )
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone is seriously proposing intel makes cpus.
mircea_popescu: what next, cisco networking hardware ?
asciilifeform: nobody's making cpus no moar.
mircea_popescu: yeah amd went the way of gaddafi even as intel went the way of obama.
asciilifeform: aha. old noose.
mircea_popescu: and in butthurt today, http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/trump-inauguration-performers/
asciilifeform: lulzily enough i have a crate with the 7700k coming in today (to put in a heathentron), will see how it worx.
mircea_popescu: "inauguration won't include yo yo ma, an obscure act trying to capitalize on random phrase spoken by cosmo kramer 20 years ago"
asciilifeform: wasn't yoyoma 1 d00d ? cellist.
asciilifeform: (iirc chinese?)
mircea_popescu: we're discussing obama here. i assume it must be something akin to the man - stole a name, ran with it.
mircea_popescu: i imagine beyonce + rap band was the menu, neh ?
asciilifeform: 'Mormon Tabernacle Choir... ... The group is based out of Salt Lake City, Utah, and dates back to the founding of the Mormon Church. ... It has some 360 members, but the decision to participate in Trump's Inauguration caused one member to leave. Jan Chamberlin said she was dropping out of the group and wrote on Facebook with reference to the inaugural performance: "I only know I could never 'throw roses to Hitler.' And I certainly co
asciilifeform: uld never sing for him."'
asciilifeform: lulzy.
mircea_popescu: eh dorks with delusions of self importance.
mircea_popescu: since when the fuck does the whore get to score the john. get up on the stage and flash the goods.
trinque: these people wish the us could fart out a hitler to make them feel important enough to round up
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, schumer now crying over the "great victory" of "nuclear option" because guess what ? taking headcount to confirm from 60 to 51 mostly helps... trump.
mircea_popescu: !~google joint task force for the national capital region
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: About Joint Force Headquarters National Capital Region: <http://www.mdwhome.mdw.army.mil/about-jfhq-ncr-main/about-jfhq-ncr>; 58th Presidential Inauguration JTF -NCR: <http://inauguralsupport.mdw.army.mil/>; Joint Force Headquarters National Capital Region - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Force_Headquarters_National_Capital_Region>
mircea_popescu: lulz of all time.
asciilifeform: 'JFHQ-NCR operates within the scope of the law. It will not engage in direct law enforcement activities, but when requested by civil authorities and approved by the civilian leadership of DOD, it supports civil authorities in their public safety missions. Existence of a JFHQ enables better planning by all parties, to the benefit of the public.'
asciilifeform: the mega-lul here is that this is a crock o'shit
mircea_popescu: they had a whole "military operation planning" thingee with a map and errything, just like in the movies.
mircea_popescu: those damned foreigners dun understand how the world works properly, desk fliers stuck doing it in garage.
asciilifeform: per traditional u.s. law, 'posse comitatus' (19th c. prohibition on soldiers enforcing laws) does not apply in washington .
asciilifeform: so they can do whateverses.
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/20041207225119/http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/government/packwood2.html << in other "can do whatevers", packwood, a 1980s powerhouse (singlehandedly fucked up clinton's own obamacare, among other highlights), chased out of senate because he may have kissed a girl at a party and stuff of that nature.
mircea_popescu: rather curious how trump will navigate the dire straights of maga absolutely requiring a repeal of 20 years' worth of "harassment" business.
mircea_popescu: to compare and contrast, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-16#1344279☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-12-16 11:27 punkman: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/millionaire-ehsan-abdulaziz-who-said-he-accidentally-tripped-and-penetrated-teen-is-cleared-of-rape-a6774946.html
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: what was the reasoning behind http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles#L378 again? << this ties those files together to make it a "grab-bag" of a release ; bunch of previous discussions
trinque: where are these people when Biden's kissing underage girls on camera in front of their parents ?
trinque: actually, I suppose with them the "underage" is sop
BingoBoingo: Per that one kink site http://www.returnofkings.com/111556/california-law-sb-1322-greenlights-child-prostitution-criminalizes-being-poor
trinque: also loller at the private evidence; must've been a small dick pic
trinque: slipped right in!
trinque: BingoBoingo: iirc there was a thread about pedos becoming the next protected class
shinohai: We must help spread clovergender awareness.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://blockchain.info/tx/d38bd67153d774a7dab80a055cb52571aa85f6cac8f35f936c4349ca308e6380
asciilifeform tried to get ben_vulpes's thing to display this before linking, no dice
trinque: ouch.
mircea_popescu: block reward!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597510 << btw to briefly revisit thread: it would also be worthwhile to find ~what was the last mobo~ that ate these.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 14:05 mircea_popescu: slowly building the "tmsr hardware" thing. iirc there was another item also
asciilifeform: because current ones - won't
asciilifeform: and the originals, are scarcer than the chips
asciilifeform: ('these' being my opterons or mircea_popescu's phenoms)
mircea_popescu: piles of asusen will eat the phenoms.
asciilifeform: !~google socket 1207 motherboard
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Socket 1207 Motherboard | eBay: <http://www.ebay.com/bhp/socket-1207-motherboard>; Socket F Computer Motherboard | eBay: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/Socket-F-Computer-Motherboard/1244/bn_651799/i.html>; Socket F Computer Motherboard for AMD | eBay: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/Socket-F-Computer-Motherboard-for-AMD/1244/bn_656720/i.html>
asciilifeform: ebay. bad sign.
asciilifeform: but yeah, iirc it was strictly either tyan and asus, pick.
asciilifeform: *or
mircea_popescu: in other lulz http://akimg2.ask.fm/4b1/a6cac/da24/4cb1/b70d/57cea84b2f6d/normal/693913.jpg (brought to you by radu photography)
asciilifeform: eggog! these people have clothes on!!111
asciilifeform: what happened here.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597510 << http://68.media.tumblr.com/dfd33ca081cddd1164c8b724044779e6/tumblr_ojcv52ECNk1uu4f9zo1_500.jpg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 14:05 mircea_popescu: slowly building the "tmsr hardware" thing. iirc there was another item also
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: check it out, dita von teese voted most likely to future.
asciilifeform: in yet-other lulzies, just when i thought thing was dead, (0 updates since oct. 25 iirc), https://archive.is/GcmdK
asciilifeform: 'urbit is down tonight' 'curtis We were trying to subscribe urbit-meta to fora notifications, something very reasonable that we should have done a long time ago, and ended up producing a "presence storm." We'll fix it a little more carefully and methodically tomorrow -- or try, at least. :-) In the meantime, I've turned off all our major stars.'
mircea_popescu: a... "presence storm" ?
asciilifeform: i've nfi
asciilifeform: would guess he meant 'slashdotting'
asciilifeform: perhaps the wagner and cyanide can already be smelled in mr.mold-central.
asciilifeform: i can already picture how october might have went: henchman: 'rumours that we are tards have been spreading for several years, what shall we do' mrmold: 'i know! let's MOVE THE FORUM'
mircea_popescu: hey, worked for the hearnia.
mircea_popescu: or no, wait. it might have not worked. but whatever, same difference.
mircea_popescu: working, not working- what's important is what's inside.
asciilifeform: in other scamz, https://archive.is/J2vI4
asciilifeform: 'While Kraken users watched the price drop, most of us could only watch in disbelief as our orders were not processed.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall who we quoted re the "where are all the 5000 rubensen" argument ?
asciilifeform: i only remember mark tarver's 'disappearing mozarts'
mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: paulgraham was the one with 'where are the painters of current florence'
mircea_popescu: ty
asciilifeform: 'has 100x the people, where are 100x the painters'
mircea_popescu: im not quoting that scammer.
asciilifeform: i've nfi which particular honest d00d he stole the observation from.
mircea_popescu: i don't care. there's no need for each individual item to be discussed. guy exists today because of the yahoo marketing ponzi scheme pre 2001 bubble. nfi why he's not in jail, but it is a shameful macula on the usg "justice" system.
asciilifeform: iirc he has a waterproof крыша
mircea_popescu: evidently not so waterproof.
asciilifeform: how not ? d00d's never, sadly , so much as smelled jail
mircea_popescu: neither did hitler. lived rest of life in "bunker", very different.
mircea_popescu: anyway, he's young enough. plenty of maga-time.
asciilifeform: not so young, iirc his catamite officially runs entire show for couplea years now
mircea_popescu: 50something. the altman handpuppet is iirc stoya's age.
mircea_popescu: of course, the woman vastly outperforms him, but whatevs. weirdos abound.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/NbEAj << in other lulz.
asciilifeform: what in this case means 'outperforms' ? i have difficulty picturing how anything short of sea piracy might beat pg's roi -- he invests pocket change in 1,001 disposable kidz, and pockets (iirc) half of anything they happen to bring in -- while carrying 0 risk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stoya is a competent fucktoy. altman is not a competent anything.
mircea_popescu: competence is the only criterion.
asciilifeform: it isn't clear imho that he is ~incompetent~, either. the outcome depends largely on the grade of cattle coming into the meat processor, and how would he affect this?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter. there's no "supposition of competence" for handpuppets.
asciilifeform: this bulldozer doesn't really have controls, it just goes.
asciilifeform: ( i could be wrong about this, but yc seems to be quite the same chumpatron today as it was decade ago )
mircea_popescu: a decade ago there was some cursory but detectable ranking by sense. much more gimmicky today.
asciilifeform: 'Trump shows little respect for the Constitution, the Republic, or for human decency, and I fear for national security if he becomes our president.'
asciilifeform: lulzy
mircea_popescu: yeah, ye olde "sam altman is the repository of the human decency of being a trite fuckwit just like sam altman"
asciilifeform: eh what sense. it always, from day 1, selected for pawnability-to-greater-fool
mircea_popescu: yes but when greater fool went from being microsoft to being us fed, the standards relaxed.
asciilifeform: !#s inqtel
a111: 3 results for "inqtel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=inqtel
asciilifeform: !#s in-q-tel
a111: 8 results for "in-q-tel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=in-q-tel
asciilifeform: ^ cia's own ycombinator, decades old, is equally a circus, but makes imho for much more entertaining reading material (they fund wunderwaffenists)
asciilifeform: e.g. the 'is somebody peeking at my display from behind my back' company
mircea_popescu: plus the occasional actual item finds its way out of there.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/making-the-pussygrab-great-again/ << Trilema - Making the pussygrab great again ?
asciilifeform: aha, the shaped magnet escaped
asciilifeform: ( anybody here buy one ? )
asciilifeform: imho that qualified as actual invention.
mircea_popescu: i'm hard pressed to see anything in the "65bn" worth of vaporware that ycombinator counts for itself. they did what, a bunch of groupons/mediums ? ie, shareholder fraud of the cooked books version and shareholder fraud of the pie in the sky version ?
asciilifeform: (macroscopic version of magnetic tape, hence bizarre mechanical properties without moving parts)
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you seen openai gym btw ?
mircea_popescu: my only regret is that it's not written in javascript.
asciilifeform: looks potentially interesting
mircea_popescu: i fail to see this potential. looks entirely like "hey guise, let's agree on definition of ai that allows the pretense of sv technologee to survive a little longer plox "
mircea_popescu: (ftr, the musk "friendly ai" thingee had NINE employees. to medium's 150.)
asciilifeform: thiel
mircea_popescu: iirc it was musk's
asciilifeform: thiel.
asciilifeform: musk is the rocket embezzler d00d
mircea_popescu: !~google elon musk openai
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: About OpenAI: <https://openai.com/about/>; OpenAI Blog: <https://openai.com/>; OpenAI - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI>
mircea_popescu: ha-HA! ?
asciilifeform: openai
asciilifeform: 'friendly ai' was thiel.
mircea_popescu: this is it.
asciilifeform: entirely different cup o'liquishit
mircea_popescu: !~google peter thiel openai
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: OpenAI Blog: <https://openai.com/>; About OpenAI: <https://openai.com/about/>; Elon Musk And Peter Thiel Launch OpenAI , A Non-Profit Artificial ...: <http://www.forbes.com/sites/theopriestley/2015/12/11/elon-musk-and-peter-thiel-launch-openai-a-non-profit-artificial-intelligence-research-company/>
mircea_popescu: im telling you it's the same one
asciilifeform: https://intelligence.org << the original thiel/yudkowsky scamatron
asciilifeform: this openai thing, is, i suppose, a parallel production
mircea_popescu: o hey check it out, rats merged ?
asciilifeform: with more 'commercial' angle ('miri', aka 'singularity institute', and half dozen other names iirc) was more 'academia'-flavoured.
mircea_popescu: or did yuko merely get cast off
asciilifeform: nope, they both appear to still function.
mircea_popescu: https://intelligence.org/2015/12/11/openai-and-other-news/
asciilifeform: Cambridge Centre for the Study of Existential Risk << lol!!
mircea_popescu: this is readily the more promising lulzatron of the period.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the note is somewhat sour.
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://archive.is/Bgn3d << adlaiism spreads
asciilifeform: 'If the stories I'd heard were true, taking a tiny bit of it, a micro-dose, had the potential to make my workday more productive than ever.' << lulz
asciilifeform: lel, urbit apparently dead enough that a new one is conjured up, https://blockstack.org/blog/funding-the-new-decentralized-internet
asciilifeform: 'The round of $4M was led by Union Square Ventures, with participation by Lux Capital, Naval Ravikant, Digital Currency Group, Compound, Version One, Kal Vepuri and Rising Tide.' << this buys, what, seven greyhound buses ?
mircea_popescu: the new decentralized internet huh.
ben_vulpes: what is "maga"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'make america great again'
ben_vulpes: o o
ben_vulpes: what are the security risks of opening an ssh connection to a possibly hostile host?
ben_vulpes: i understand some amount of "x is risky", but...specifics are scant so far
mircea_popescu: that it crashes your ssh client, gains control of your box as the user that ran it, escalates it to root privilege, installs a rootkit that you can't take out without throwing out the mobo + hdd and disappears in a puff of smoke.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'best' case is if openssl is a heartbleeder
asciilifeform: and what mircea_popescu said
asciilifeform: but even failing this, diffiehellman gives the other side a sample from your rng.
asciilifeform: which could prove problematic depending on how broken your system is
asciilifeform: if you successfully connect, you give the other side a sample of your keystroke timings, which for some reason usg is obsessed with
mircea_popescu: who the hell types into the ssh ?
asciilifeform: what does mircea_popescu do with it ? only tunnel ?
mircea_popescu: i feed it prepared lines.
mircea_popescu: why would i type ?
asciilifeform: standard ssh client transmits (yes) individual keys
asciilifeform: so if you were to use it -- then.
mircea_popescu: i know but why would you use the ssh client as a text editor
ben_vulpes: k, ty
asciilifeform: why would you go through life owning 1comp
asciilifeform: i dunno. but plenty of folx apparently do.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: http://cascadianhacker.com/how-to-learn-programming/comment-page-1#comment-137
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'magical armor' link in your article is broken
phf: "or you could ignore all of this stupid shit and buy a Masamune for 410USD plus the price of the hardware"
ben_vulpes: phf: hm?
asciilifeform: phf: recall stephenson's 'bottle shaker'
asciilifeform: 'Imagine a witch doctor in a society that doesn’t know how to make glass. A bottle washes up on the shore. It has amazing properties. He puts it on a stick and waves it around and convinces his fellows that he has got some of those amazing properties himself.'
phf: oh oh, right, exactly. something about dat wording followed by familiar words was very amusing to me
trinque: I dunno it's accurate to say the guy just grabbed something he found, but it's at the present impossible for me to evaluate how much code is g_l and how much found.
trinque: at any rate, we are all currently using piles of found, called linux distributions
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aty, fixt.
asciilifeform: trinque: glass maker also ~finds~ sand, salt, etc
mircea_popescu: i can't evaluate same ever ; after some cursory attempts to help the evaluation i'm resigned to let it evaluate itself.
mircea_popescu: same either*
ben_vulpes shakes feathered stick at sky, demands marvelous widget be brought
trinque wonders why bottle is empty
asciilifeform: i gotta say that i am entirely uninterested in theatrical/hollywood imitations of lispm
asciilifeform: which is to say, any and all attempts at 'it OUTWARDLY worx!1111' without correspondingly aligned internals
mircea_popescu: in other bottle news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/92ca59abba19da3ab9de9e5341c07250/tumblr_n8cwr0PqdI1snitl1o7_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what is even happening in there
mircea_popescu: something something battlestarship something something new decentralized something intertwat.
mircea_popescu: you know, usual silicon valley.
ben_vulpes: four hundred dollars is a pittance to pay for a documented common lisp ui development story
asciilifeform: go, pay.
ben_vulpes: even if it's a pile of shit g_l found and tar'd up.
asciilifeform: i see ~0 public docs.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why i was under the impression it was 210 + laptop.
ben_vulpes: i will not write this theorem in cocoa, qt, wx, or any of the ilk.
trinque: asciilifeform: we have all been railing on that fact to no avail
trinque: can't play coy; display the fucking item
asciilifeform: ftr i grunted through gabriel_laddel's www material and cringed, he quotes massive chunks from my www but shows no symptoms of having learned anything there
asciilifeform: about, e.g., impedance mismatches in a comp system, or the failure of massive abstraction towers, or any of what i consider to be the basic observations
ben_vulpes: give up, write everything in cpp and python, right?
trinque: I think he would've been wiser to say "I wish to replace emacs with a CL environment" than "this is a step towards sane computing" or somesuch
asciilifeform: if d00d worked on, e.g., climacs, and ditched the pretense of 'os design', he could theoretically come up with something worthwhile imho
trinque: aha
trinque: agree 100%
trinque: I emphatically do not want anyone telling me how to run gentoo when I've been doing so myself almost as long as it has existed.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: gentoo could theoretically be improved -- but not by bolting a hacked-together cl layer ON TOP OF pythonic emerge
trinque: the presence of e.g. network manager in the thing shows the lack of an eye for what constitutes cruft in gentooland
trinque: that said the various CLIM explorers of the lisp system were ~rad~, integrated debugger etc, rad
trinque: can certainly be more sanely framed as "finishing climacs"
mircea_popescu: there's an impedance mismatch between description and labeling though. i expect my wine bottle to say "wine bottle" rather than the more accurate "dubious suspension of tanic acid salts in water"
ben_vulpes: yeah, emerge, network managers, gui wrappers around os stuff is very uninteresting (but i suppose useful in the case of eg fs browser 'dired' and climacsy presentations). what i *want* is a lispy gui toolkit and i do not give one screaming fuck re "omg ancient athena widgets"
trinque: one can make his own gadgets anyway
ben_vulpes: it is the least interesting thing.
ben_vulpes: can i slam other pngs in there? probably. great.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you think the work reduced to 'slam other pngs in there', you're in for a surprise.
ben_vulpes: no, being glib. point is that gadgets can be made to look however.
ben_vulpes: i'll refrain from further.
asciilifeform: i'ma put clim on that i7-7700K (released yesterday!) for lulz. betcha it's still dog-slow.
asciilifeform: and will be slow at 5GHz.
trinque: asciilifeform: define a benchmark and I'll run right now.
asciilifeform: the benchmark is 'i can feel delays'
trinque: oh for fucks sake
trinque: that's your own programming causing "delays"
asciilifeform: no, i mean it.
asciilifeform: if i can feel delay between pressing a button, clicking a control, etc. and things happening -- this is called dog-slow.
asciilifeform: same reason microshit 'word' is slow.
trinque: your own code determines when these things happen!
mircea_popescu: trinque run mp hash for 512 bits on a day's worth of logs, report ?
mircea_popescu: say, yest.
asciilifeform: trinque: it was true of clim and i wrote not 1 letter of code. of the stock ui. last i saw.
asciilifeform: of climacs likewise.
asciilifeform: and this is before writing code. now make a gui widget that, e.g., scrolls through 100kB of text (light work even for 486, normally) and see what happens.
asciilifeform: or, satan forbid, a clickable list of 100,001 objects.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interestingly, the only time i ever encountered such delays before was on ssh sessions.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, on satellite
mircea_popescu: bad connection generally.
asciilifeform: or grunting through 3 nsa mitmators
asciilifeform: or infrared laser at 9600 baud
asciilifeform: plenty of slow links in the wild.
trinque: mircea_popescu: the hash wouldn't slow anybody down because I'd be hashing in one thread, updating UI with results in another as they pop out
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as ~algorithmically dog slow~ design
asciilifeform: e.g. phuctor-1
asciilifeform: where it is ~not~ a matter of 'all i gotta do is shave some cycles'
trinque: we staring from a conclusion or are we doing a benchmark
asciilifeform: i did the benchmark, in (iirc) 2010.
asciilifeform: answer was 'feels like ms word'
asciilifeform: was quite enough for me.
trinque: this makes an argument eh?
trinque to teh repl
asciilifeform: what can i say, i'll happily test the new ver.
asciilifeform: on i7 even.
asciilifeform: but i ain't paying for the privilege of testing alpha.
trinque: the way you jump around, man.
trinque back with a benchmark
asciilifeform: if trinque made a gadget that actually benchmarks ui delays (i.e. injects keystroke via keyboard port and times reaction on display) it'd be quite spiffy and i'd even buy it.
mircea_popescu: trinque q was more as to how long it takes.
mircea_popescu: ie, "how slow the stack is"
mircea_popescu: alf's touchy-feely notions of "slow" aren't particularily interesting, but it would be worth noting if it takes 10x or 100x the cycles to deliver the same result.
asciilifeform: it isn't about a fixed 10x or 100x, winblows-style, that would be fixable with iron
asciilifeform: it's about geometric grinding to halt as the working set grows
asciilifeform: (see the 100kB text example earlier)
trinque: there is no example earlier
mircea_popescu: hey, he said benchmark, i proposed a benchmark. lotta branching lotta iterations, some memory allocation. should be plenty obvious.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'll be benchmarking the underlying cltron, not clim, then
asciilifeform: clim is a uitron
mircea_popescu: the whole machine.
mircea_popescu: but yes, whatever.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your proposed benchmark wouldn't touch anything that can be described as clim
trinque haxing a viewer for xev output for clim's own window
mircea_popescu: gotta solve this dispute somehow. the correct somehow is to start bolting down parts. first we check this, then we can see if it's a matter of cl implementation is fine, ui is bad.
trinque: then once had we can bog it down by also doing crunching in another thread and dumping output of teh hash to the scroll pane
mircea_popescu: worx.
mircea_popescu: but this discussion would definitely benefit from clear domain definition and numeric measurements, as trinque well points out.
asciilifeform: it ~is~ possible to measure keyboard/mouse-to-display-loop delay.
asciilifeform: just needs small physical tool.
trinque: xev output is fine for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am somewhat unsurprised the immediate reaction is to take the matter outside of the computer.
mircea_popescu: supposedly it'll also need small soul eventually. aanyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well as i understood criticism from trinque was 'stop measuring with your arse, gotta have objective metric'
asciilifeform: which is entirely fair point
trinque: lel
mircea_popescu: hopefully lasers are involved.
trinque: I will be happy to continue this discussion as comments in my blog in near future
mircea_popescu: works.
ben_vulpes: imma sit here mashing refresh on trinque.org
mircea_popescu: put it in teh rss.
mircea_popescu: in random lulz : apparently at some point in the 80s, dec has 1200 people working on porting x to ultrix/vms
asciilifeform blows dust off box with openvms
asciilifeform: easy to forget, that it existed
asciilifeform: but in some ways was interesting
asciilifeform: in the 'unix is not the only possible design' sense
asciilifeform: https://vmssoftware.com/products.html << i shit thee not, STILL MAINTAINED today
mircea_popescu: meanwhile xfree86.org LOST its 2003 pipermail archive
mircea_popescu: holy hell...
asciilifeform: (spun off, apparently, out of compaq, but...)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you have copies ?
asciilifeform: of pipermail ?
asciilifeform: dun think so
mircea_popescu: www.xfree86.org/pipermail/forum/2003-March/001997.html
asciilifeform: maybe mod6 does
mircea_popescu: the keith packard drama
asciilifeform: lost, apparently, in 2014.
asciilifeform: http://web.archive.org/web/20141109130658/http://www.xfree86.org/pipermail/forum/2003-March/001997.html << nsa has copy.
asciilifeform: 'It has been brought to the attention of the XFree86 Core Team that one of its members, Keith Packard, has been actively (but privately) seeking out support for a fork of XFree86 that would be led by himself. He is also in the process of forming a by-invitation-only group of vested interests to discuss privately concerns he has about XFree86 and the future of X. He has consistently refused to even disclose these concerns within the
asciilifeform: context of the XFree86 Core Team, which makes his membership of that team unviable. As a consequence, Keith Packard is no longer a member of the XFree86 Core Team.'
mircea_popescu: fucking archive.org
mircea_popescu: srsly, 2.5mn dollars is a fraction of what they want ?
asciilifeform: 'Compare OpenVMS' security vulnerability record against other operating systems at CVE Details .... http://www.cvedetails.com/product/4990/HP-Openvms.html?vendor_id=10' vs ' linux: http://www.cvedetails.com/product/47/Linux-Linux-Kernel.html?vendor_id=33 '
asciilifeform: lulzy
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/*/www.xfree86.org/pipermail/forum/2003-April/003016.html
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/*//www.xfree86.org/pipermail/forum/2003-March/002165.html
mircea_popescu: in other lulz
asciilifeform: ( trinque may find the db in vms interesting )
mircea_popescu: the idiotic ustard discursive posturing was intolerable even cca 2003. "Persistent problems in XFree86 development have become widely recognised within the X community. I have talked to people throughout the X community in a search for solutions." check out the utter nigger talk.
asciilifeform: komyoonity awareness raising!111
mircea_popescu: textbook example. first off, "insufficient diversity"
asciilifeform: this, yes, but whatevers, d00d wanted own fork -- why not, he can have own fork
mircea_popescu: "In 2011, O'Reilly awarded an open source award to Packard, as "the person behind most of the improvements made on the open source desktop in the last ten years at least.""
mircea_popescu: "own".
asciilifeform: that anyone followed him in that direction - is not a credit to these anyones
asciilifeform: recall the libreboot idiocy. or the however many attempts to oust linus t.
asciilifeform: if project crumbles when squeezed in this way -- 'mandate of heaven was already shaky'
mircea_popescu: this, ftr, is how x.org was born (of which guy is now lead, and which is as dead as we all recall)
asciilifeform: well yes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-21#1412639 refpoint☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-21 21:51 mircea_popescu: x.org just recently lost their only asset because of inept "non profit" shenanigans.
mircea_popescu: and guess who became a "debian developer" right after.
mircea_popescu: then intel.
asciilifeform: 'The 'fetchmail' project has contributions from over 800 developers. Over the last two years there were about 250 contributors to XFree86, a project more than a hundred times larger.'
asciilifeform: ohnoez, insufficiently many fly eyes!!!
mircea_popescu: should be studied in school ffs. mike harris of redhat complained to packard that these people weren't sufficiently o'reillyed. gotta color revolution!!1
mircea_popescu: then create a new ukraine for them, which then entirely bankrupt in a decade.
mircea_popescu: but hey, wikipedia says "the successful x.org" so it must be so.
asciilifeform: i'd be curious to see if original could be revved up on any recent box
asciilifeform: (or at the very least, what it'd take)
mircea_popescu: 2003 gfx software ? seems unlikely.
asciilifeform: eh the (few working) open driverz could be ported.
mircea_popescu: rather than port extant drivers to a twice defunct pile of code made by mit i'd rather paint tits on a boar.
asciilifeform: 'The KDE and Gnome projects were forced to form the freedesktop.org project to extend and enhance X Window System standards because XFree86 refused even to participate in the process.' << this is lulzily reminiscent of naggum's opponents and their 'we MUST MODERNIZE cl despite the HIDEBOUND standards committee refusing to consider our crackpotteries'
mircea_popescu: it is also eerily reminiscent of "political attacks on financial networks began, as for example the Federal reserve act of 1913, the goal always being to wind up the network into a single"
mircea_popescu: etc etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it had been, say, ~considerably~ smaller a la systemv's cat command (old thread), it'd be at least worth contemplating. but yes, it was a tall pile of shit even in 1993
mircea_popescu: it is not.
asciilifeform: 'There is no information available on the XFree86 home page on becoming an XFree86 developer. Information for new developers consists of the mention of a couple of mailing list addresses in the README document included in the XFree86 4.3 release.' << picture how d00d would react to meeting trb
mircea_popescu: oh, i'm sure.
asciilifeform: we dun have any 'information available' on how rando sea cucumber can BECOME DEVELOPER !11ohnoez
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/20101224183912/http://xfree86.org/pipermail/forum/2003-March/002286.html << 6/10 lulz.
asciilifeform: ^ what happened to this one
asciilifeform: murphey
asciilifeform: evaporated?
mircea_popescu: rich murphey ? he didn't get "hired" by intel from redhat and didn't get to work on debian and didn't get invited by oreilly to eat rubber chicken so he doesn't exist as per wikipedia.
mircea_popescu: dopes ok as computer forensics consultant.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/sears-selling-craftsman-brand-to-stanley-black-decker/ << Qntra - Sears Selling Craftsman Brand To Stanley Black & Decker
BingoBoingo: adlai though he "dopes ok"
asciilifeform proud member of the entirely inhomogeneous nonfraternal nonorganization of folx who do fine without Existing on Pediwikia
mircea_popescu: the "us vs them" thing is very evidently manifest. it also happened to work for them a lot better back in 2000, when they owned the de facto currency.
asciilifeform: hijackings like xorg, debian, etc ran on the fumes remaining in what was once a very tall tank of respectability cachet of academia, american heavy industry, etc.
asciilifeform: the fumes -- run out.
mircea_popescu: which brings the point full circle : relinquishing ANY degree of control over the currency back to the niggers will result in an exact rehash of the boom/bust cycle of cs development that has ensured 0 useful anything came out of three generations of developers by now.
mircea_popescu: there shall be no bitcoin regulation. ever.
asciilifeform: whole point of bitcoin is to bugspray them vermin neh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they have very systematically hijacked and buried in the desert things. linux/gcc is just the latest pass.
asciilifeform: usenet, most famously
asciilifeform: was presented as 'unfortunate accident' and astonishing number of supposedly 'thinking' people ate it up.
mircea_popescu: because "intellectuals" have utterly no shame. if their guzzling of piss is not stated in plain terms, they will get together and pretend otherwise.
asciilifeform: i dunno what is 'intellectual' about packard, poettering, the leah-whatever dope of libreboot, gavin, et al
mircea_popescu: mentally at the age of 14, when they got together in the schoolyard to recount various summertime conquests under the velvety protection of nobody calling anyone out on anything ever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't mean the niggers. i mean the others.
mircea_popescu: taleb will, with all the panache of a dedicated goat fucker, publish items on medium.com
mircea_popescu: it is, literally, more respectable a use of his time to upload homemade goat porn to 4chan
asciilifeform: there is a very large herd of 'just want-to' piglets who, yes, end in the meat yards every time and very surprised
mircea_popescu: intellectuals have no shame.
mircea_popescu: they are trained to pursue their intellectual preoccupations at the expense of "everything else", which is fine for as long as it's the fat on their belly, but is not fine once they start chiseling away the spine.
asciilifeform: there is this. but i also have difficulty picturing taleb sweating over apache config etc.
asciilifeform: he probably has same attitude re subj as mircea_popescu re flying airplanes.
asciilifeform: 'i wouldn't do the work if it fellated'
mircea_popescu: until and unless someone comes up and tells them to stop pissing the bed, they will sit in the urine soaked mess while pretending entirely satisfactorily to their own lights that "it's just one of those things", and supposedly never realising the name for the situatio nis "wallowing in piss"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would he have to fuck with apache config ?
asciilifeform: to set up proper box, 'mp-wp', etc. ?
asciilifeform: instead of tumblr/lj/medium/turd-of-the-day
mircea_popescu: dude who's talking of proper box. he can set up a fucking livejournal for all anyone cares. a myspace profile
mircea_popescu: but no. idiot has to medium.
asciilifeform: waitasec how do these differ
asciilifeform: iirc medium is simply latest iteration of the tired old idiocy
mircea_popescu: were you here for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-04#1596429 ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-04 22:46 ben_vulpes: https://blog.medium.com/renewing-mediums-focus-98f374a960be#.8gsm40qwc << "we have no fucking idea how to make money from livejournal in 2017, but that's not going to stop us from lighting our investor's capital on fire and warming ourselves in front of it while lamenting the capitalist system!"
mircea_popescu: no dude, it's not a discussion of technology omfg. it's a discussion of politics.
asciilifeform: i was, refrained from clicking, links on that www tend to be tiresome crud
mircea_popescu: "but what if he was at leningrad siege, he fired tired old mauser!"
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares what he fired.
asciilifeform: 'Ваше слово, товарищ маузер!'
mircea_popescu: is this a maiakovski reference ?
asciilifeform: aha, mega-lulclassic
asciilifeform: 'I’ll start with the hard part: As of today, we are reducing our team by about one third — eliminating 50 jobs, mostly in sales, support, and other business functions. ' << they SOLD SOMETHING?!
asciilifeform: what?!
mircea_popescu: exactly my comment.
asciilifeform: 'We decided we needed to take a different — and bolder — approach to this problem. We believe people who write and share ideas should be rewarded on their ability to enlighten and inform, not simply their ability to attract a few seconds of attention. ' << lel, ordinary spamatronics not enough, gotta also have http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594901☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 18:25 mircea_popescu: this apple, nsa, whatever, nobody gives a shit, but this "apple" is the empire's last hope, half-Alphabet-half-AAPL-half-contractors whatever it is.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the xfree86 debacle is VERY fucking illustrative of how the "thinking" idiot acts. they "disbanded" once the monkey chorus got loud enough, so they don't have to deal with the idiots any longer. whoopdedoo, nice going.
mircea_popescu: in the process, creating the perverse incentive structure for the monkey wail. i really can't fucking stand ustards already.
mircea_popescu: and the more intelligent/technically skilled the worse it gets.
mircea_popescu: constantly with this "wisdom" of fligh response, nothing's worth drying for, there's always going to be a virgin forest somewhere to run to. run to and... what ?
mircea_popescu: idiots.
mircea_popescu: and supposedly i should feel bad for them, right ? because look how the barbarians came and burned down all these nice guy's hard work. hurr.
asciilifeform: torvalds showed that it is not only possible, but not even especially difficult to resist, but eventually he will exit the stage. and at that point poettering will probably end up 'ceo of linux'
asciilifeform: (rather like what happened to openbsd -- d00d gets tired, 'eager young thing' steps up)
mircea_popescu: i've not really been following openbsd.
mircea_popescu: but yes, can't expect torvalds to forever.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not especially difficult to resit at all, IF and ONLY IF one understands that the niggers aren't human.
mircea_popescu: for as long as one entertains even faint delusions that who knows, packard is maybe a person too, that "coreboot" retarded, what's her name, is maybe human like we are, that gavin or hearn have mothers and fathers and children and smell roses rather than you know, dwelling in rats nests like the rats they are and come out of ootheca like any other kitchen cockroach - for as long as that delusion is even vaguely present it's n
mircea_popescu: ot easy to resist.
mircea_popescu: and yes it's trivial to smell the "marketing contributes to revenue - everyone else to costs" folk a mile away. but you have to WANT TO.
ben_vulpes: pgAdmin 4 is a feature rich open source PostgreSQL client. It has support for almost every feature in PostgreSQL. The only downside is that the cross-plattform UI really doesn’t live up to the expectations of a native Mac app.Postico on the other hand, is a very modern Mac app. It’s made by the same people that maintain Postgres.app, and we think you’ll like it!
ben_vulpes: yes i want fewer features and prettier widgets that fit in with my os aesthetic
ben_vulpes: that is what i want
ben_vulpes: every day
ben_vulpes: when trying to get shit done
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/what-ever-happened-to-baby-jane/ << Trilema - What Ever Happened To Baby Jane ?
mircea_popescu: http://labs.openviewpartners.com/linkedin-pricing-strategy/#.WHAoLFJOm-I << in random lulz. the following elements are present : "experts" with nary a clue, expertise predicated entirely on context in a purely substance-free lacanian manner ; "controversy" in the sense of, wholly worthless item lost some of the arbitrary "value" it never had, what could be the possible "explanations" that nevertheless avoid stating the obviou
mircea_popescu: s "linkedin has no value".