log☇︎
224 entries in 0.518s
mircea_popescu: it's examinable in the sense xilinx is examinable.
mircea_popescu: i don't know how you can audit a xilinx chip. but if you did, asciilifeform would definitely be interested in hearing.
mircea_popescu: well, we don't trust xilinx for critical infreastructure for the ~same reason we don'tr trust windows.
mircea_popescu: so you are trusting xilinx to actually do what it says ? and this with code that you can't audit ?
BenBE: In my case it's based on http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.PapilioPro#PProFPGA (Xilinx Spartan 6)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-28 15:03 mod6: i did wanna get a few xilinx boards to play with... but first ill see what I can learn with the other stuff I got. i also bought a soldering iron.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633177 << i'll point out, FUCKGOATS even doubles as a (very small, actually 2nd smallest chip they sell) xilinx dev board... ☝︎
mod6: i did wanna get a few xilinx boards to play with... but first ill see what I can learn with the other stuff I got. i also bought a soldering iron. ☟︎
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: if you're thinking of nic-on-xilinx, every single one (with the exception of the 10BaseT half-duplex that's floated around since 1990s) relies on a xilinx-proprietary fabric turd
asciilifeform: ye olde chip racket, as exemplified by xilinx (see thread), where 'by the time the docs leak, not only we stopped making it 15 years ago but go and buy even secondhand one!' -- remains operational.
asciilifeform: it'd handily fit in a, e.g., xilinx spartan6.
mircea_popescu: (lasts, not because chickens will become xilinx fans, but because the last people who know how it works will die, and then their writings will... BE MOVED TO NEW DIRECTORIES. and that's that.)
asciilifeform: but when xilinx's synth tool stubbornly refused to map the collective reset in FUCKGOATS to the global reset pin, i found the answer with, yes, a few hours of google.
asciilifeform: i will point out that, for all of the horror of the 100% closed and ~15 GB (yes) mass of the xilinx dev chain, it runs on ANY LINUX BOX
mircea_popescu: xilinx.e-technik.uni-rostock.de___139.30.202.12/ << lol!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-15#1555681 << a standard xilinx jtagtron should work ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 01:52 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model
a111: Logged on 2015-06-17 13:17 asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
asciilifeform: mepian: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551507 << please read the xilinx threads . ☝︎☟︎
mod6: im gonna get me one of these xilinx boards.
a111: 96 results for "xilinx", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=xilinx
asciilifeform: $s xilinx
mircea_popescu: well it's unclear what the fuck it'll be, but it's pretty evident, at least to me, that the chinese ARE trying to erode the whole xilinx tower of ip.
asciilifeform: and if it were, they are happy to clone xilinx and ship pirate copy of the binary turdchain with it.
mircea_popescu: sure. but xilinx competition is first step.
asciilifeform: ever see manual for, e.g., xilinx fpga? it is simply a mass of these turds.
pete_dushenski: o hey xilinx has market cap of $12 bn aka 1/30th of facebook.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: xilinx and altera make $B+ of them / yr and they aren't going into tv sets etc.
ascii_deadfiber: if i could be arsed i'd compile it in my xilinx toolchain and see what max clock is
asciilifeform: (re: 1 - e.g., reversed xilinx 4000 series, is ~useless~, as you cannot buy it in any kind of qty)
sbp: "and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric" — ugh
asciilifeform: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=xilinx
asciilifeform: (inside is also a xilinx fpga and some sram.)
asciilifeform: and in the 'roadmap' link we specifically see 'xilinx.'
assbot: 86 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx
asciilifeform: !s xilinx
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: fpga is pretty much never mounted in a socket (the low end xilinx cpld, e.g., 95xx series, do come in plcc - but high pin count makes this a bitch)
asciilifeform: http://www.diymodules.org/img/eagle-preview.php?type=usr&id=2221&file=XILINX.lbr&package=PGA299&wd=250&ht=250
gabriel_laddel: https://octopart.com/xc6216-2hq240c-xilinx-10325634
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-12-2015#1355673 << why not buy xilinx also..? ☝︎
asciilifeform: today reversing a xilinx chip is largely a waste of time, a good chunk of the functionality is in quite un-fpgaish special-purpose chunks which get reshuffled with each new model
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-12-2015#1334537 << famous among aficionados. 'neocad' actually reversed the time's xilinx fpga line. 'had to die.' ☝︎
gabriel_laddel: To any "hackers" reading the logs - rather than going after hackteam, try xilinx, lattice semiconductor next time?
ascii_field: this all happened before, with xilinx
asciilifeform discovered, during unrelated research, that xilinx's 'coolrunner' cpld series - a very simple programmable logic gizmo with very homogeneous/regular physical structure - can hold a simple risc cpu...
assbot: azonenberg:xilinx:xc2c32a [Silicon Pr0n] ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdkxI1 )
ascii_field: http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=azonenberg:xilinx:xc2c32a << more re: xc32
ascii_field: ^ of interest to all 'xilinx' aficionados
ascii_field: and you don't have the ones you might like, but solely the ones the chip came with from xilinx etc
ascii_field: (and only a paid-up, to the tune of 100K+ usd, or well-cracked, xilinx toolchain, will even talk to the $200-300 ones)
ascii_field: price some of the larger xilinx chips
assbot: Logged on 17-06-2015 17:32:11; ascii_field: (xilinx, altera, actel, etc. ~all~ make the bulk of their revenue by charging rent for 'properties' like 'the right to have a network card' in your fpga)
ascii_field: (xilinx, altera, actel, etc. ~all~ make the bulk of their revenue by charging rent for 'properties' like 'the right to have a network card' in your fpga) ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 17-06-2015 13:17:59; asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
asciilifeform: the entire thing is cynically deliberate. notice how, e.g., xilinx boards, come with ethernet jack and magnetics? well, you can't actually ~use~ the ethernet without paying a per-unit license fee to the bastards
asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric; ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-06-2015#1165915 << key detail: 'IP-Core : MIG V:3.6.1'. that's 'memory interface generator', xilinx's gui turd. it shits out code which is a mere wrapper on a closed-source gigantic steaming pile of shit. and the output is unique to a particular model and subtype of chip. ☝︎
asciilifeform: mention of xilinx is especially on the point because a bit-flip in fpga routing fabric is catastrophic
asciilifeform: i also have boxes that run closedsource linux crapolade (e.g., xilinx toolchain)
asciilifeform: it had a xilinx spartan 1st ed. fpga inside. and was built like a tank.
assbot: 62 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx
ascii_field: !s xilinx
ascii_field: (before anyone spits back the old paper re: the fact of c-gates implemented on xilinx fabric - go and see how many of them you can fit. and how much room left for interconnects.)
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: to avoid rehashing ancient thread for a fifth time, stuck at the realization that reversing xilinx is futile.
ascii_field: at one time there was much crowing re: a 'xilinx fpga backdoor'
assbot: 56 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx
ascii_field: !s xilinx
ascii_field: mats: neato, there was a similar project for xilinx 'virtex'
ascii_field: trinque: you're talking about reverse-engineering, a la nvidia driver, xilinx (see old thread, etc.)
asciilifeform: it's a little thing with a 'xilinx' fpga (nonvolatile) and 'ftdi' usb2 diddler
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating the last 100+ xilinx threads <<< basically, there was no torvalds for hardware. yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: xilinx ships a set of identially-functioning turdlibraries for both languages. << one wonders how they actually achieved this.
BingoBoingo: Sure, but what sphicter sculpts the Xilinx turd.
asciilifeform: closes xilinx turd, yes
asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating the last 100+ xilinx threads - the closed architecture of -all- fpga vendors is specifically to enable this 'business model'
asciilifeform: xilinx ships a set of identially-functioning turdlibraries for both languages.
asciilifeform wrote a ddr2 controller for 'xilinx' chip once. it is amazingly easy to create a dysfunctional one with behaves like, for instance, the one pictured in that paper.
asciilifeform: almost as much as the first (and last, and only) xilinx part that had open docs from the vendor
assbot: 42 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx
asciilifeform: !s xilinx
asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: a forcibly blown open 'xilinx' soft/hard stack would be a good start though.
decimation: my understanding is tha altera is generally easier to deal with here, because they actually do their own r&d to produce these 'ip cores', whereas xilinx tends to contract it out - involving third parties in your product
asciilifeform: e.g., xilinx wants you to prototype on their fpga, and then offers massively-discounted asic process which simply consists of their fpga die plus custom metallization layer.
assbot: 38 results for 'xilinx' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=xilinx
ascii_on_tour: !s xilinx
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it. << it will happen.
assbot: debit- xilinx bitstream decompiler project has been vanished? or does someone know the URL | Comp.Arch.FPGA | FPGARelated.com
asciilifeform: http://www.fpgarelated.com/comp.arch.fpga/thread/62565/debit-xilinx-bitstream-decompiler-project-has-been-vanished-or-does-someone-know-the-url.php << censored now and again
asciilifeform: you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it.
asciilifeform: (each new series of 'xilinx' chip has considerably altered internals, to make past reverser's efforts less useful)
asciilifeform: decimation: both 'xilinx' and 'altera' make the bulk of their profit by renting out the right to use 'cores' (as they call them) - libraries, to a normal person
asciilifeform: because 'xilinx' sells, by the tonne, a large fpga with built in 'ppc' cores.
asciilifeform: xilinx.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> bounce: search channel logs re: at least three separate discussions of how this came to be << you know, giving terms like "xilinx" is better than an empty search entreaty. he doesn't know what to search for.
assbot: NSA Approved Defense-Grade Spartan-6Q FPGA in Production for Highest Level Cryptographic Capabilities Strengthens Xilinx Secure Leadership - Aug 31, 2011
decimation: http://press.xilinx.com/2011-08-31-NSA-Approved-Defense-Grade-Spartan-6Q-FPGA-in-Production-for-Highest-Level-Cryptographic-Capabilities-Strengthens-Xilinx-Secure-Leadership
asciilifeform: 'xilinx' in particular brags of 'nsa certified' whatevers.
asciilifeform: the vendors (there are exactly two worth mentioning, 'xilinx' and 'altera' - the others sell miniscule turdlets, most often with zero linux toolchain support) also play fast & loose with the word 'gate'
decimation: yeah the old xilinx part