trinque: Github pull requests give losers like jackdaniel too much insight into the workings of the project and git sucks anyways. << shithub's whole point is to bring losers like jackdaniel to the table.
trinque: !~later tell gabriel_laddel ^
jhvh1: trinque: The operation succeeded.
trinque: and also, yes I will host the thing's vpatch pile.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: masamune news: I've a machine for hosting the channel + logs+backups, but it is missing a power cord and doesn't have a bootable linux on it :/ Have never installed on a computer that didn't at the very least give me a boot screen, so have nfi how long this will take.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: nothing whatsoever, even when holding either F12 or F1 during boot.
BingoBoingo: AHA. Enamled steel roofing is also making a comeback.
BingoBoingo: Oh there are still factory built houses, but more of a littoral cottage industry.
BingoBoingo: Small factories making houses not in assembly line, but in local batches. Then assembled (not built) on site. Also guess where shallow water plays a role.
BingoBoingo: under foundation because piered foundations are popular for these, geography be damned
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Because classic version. New factory homes are the ones which can't even litorrally.
BingoBoingo: Yes. New things are pointedly trailers innovatively anchored to ground.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 01:12 mircea_popescu: trinque dawg telling people a "^" is pretty fucking evil.
mircea_popescu: lol he put stan "from start to finish" on the required reading list.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the linked github is like the first laddel piece over a few dozen words that nevertheless made sense from end to end.
☟︎ jurov: so, mcclim/climacs is apparently usable now? will defo look into it
jurov: so far tried to make app with Qt bindings (commonqt), it worked but with lots of glue
jurov: "Emacs pretends GTK+ is an old-fashioned Xt toolkit. The entire Emacs philosophy is to force $MODERN_THING to behave just like Xt just like a 1960s TTY. Emacs does awful things to GTK+ to maintain this illusion."
jurov: and dude grafted double buffering on top of that
trinque: Internally, Emacs still belives it’s a text program, and we pretend Xt is a text terminal, and we pretend GTK is an Xt toolkit. It’s a fractal of delusion. << hahaha oh christ
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. what exactly can it be other than "a text program" ?
mircea_popescu: also there's this kickass bird that sits on my balcony and sings the shit out of it!
mircea_popescu: this sounds a lot like "my car engine doesn't run smooth so i'm going to fix the steering wheel, gas pedal etc."
mircea_popescu: how about taking the fucking water out of the gasoline, for starters!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well with any luck tmsr fork of emacs will be part of gossipd anyways.
mircea_popescu: yes. so if it's emacs, then it's emacs, then we need to freeze a package of it or else face the eulora problem
mircea_popescu: emacs frozen as part of gossipd, other implementations allowed at user's discretion.
mircea_popescu: "if it dun work don't bother us - you broke it, you fix it."
trinque lives in emacs, has it as window-manager even, never sees flicker
trinque: the guy must be talking about having x11 windows overlap, and who does that anyway
mircea_popescu: well if the os fucks up the video buffers, anything will flicker.
mircea_popescu: you, apparently. /me recalls this discussion where he was using everything full screen and heathens balked.
trinque: ^ neglects to mention emacs windows
trinque: emacs has its own internal concept of "windows" aside from x11 windows
trinque: one emacs x11.window can have numerous emacs.windows within
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 18:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've yet to use a "non-full-screen window" for anything.
mircea_popescu: yeah well that is not really what anyone thinks of when they see the word.
mircea_popescu: hey, sometimes being the only one who uses something makes you more than being the only one who wrote it.
mircea_popescu: (retrospectively it is evident this proggy had a large formative impact in young alf, hence all the vermin references.)
trinque couldn't stand writing one command "open all the shit I use to work on project P" in multiple languages, the cost being stepping around various exwm bugs
trinque: gabriel_laddel can tell me when I can rewrite all my elisp in CL
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but who the fuck uses emacs nonfullscreen and why. << Me, I use it like a "sticky note" on screen.
mircea_popescu: damn, i wish we knew that back when phuctor story was #1 for half a day. such arguments!
mircea_popescu: why exactly is criticizing idiots "not adding to the conversation" ?
mircea_popescu: very weird, the list of nonsense these people sprout. it's as if they have 0 reflexive capacity whatsoever, how am i supposed to distinguish google "ai" from some douche who spits out " Your style of just summarily shitting on how the author wrote this piece adds no value to the discussion." ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: also, just in case anyone had any doubts - vlc is thoroughly broken. no historical package up to 0.7 (ie five years ago) is capable of compiling (fails because can't find dbus >= 1.0.0 which you know, 2006)
mircea_popescu: somehow i had working copies. i guess ima have to move them to new systems somehow or wtf.
trinque: iirc mplayer's list of deps is a bit shorter
mircea_popescu: i think i have copies of vlc that i've been using since 2007 or so
shinohai: works very nicely for streaming youtube vids without all the ad crap
BingoBoingo: mplayer, parole, there's a spectrum on non-VLC players
mircea_popescu: aha. i have tons of these things, not touched for >10+ years etc
mircea_popescu: defo not prepared to cogently argue the whys and wherefores of software decisions over a decade old
mircea_popescu: also should prolly be said i dun actually watch any porn.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess the livestream of my livingroom irl should count and that sorta thing. but i've not been following teh industry in just about a decade by now.
mircea_popescu: in which interval i doubt i watched a full hour of pronz.
mircea_popescu: come to think about it i'm getting fucking ridiculous over here, "oh, mp is against drugs and pot and doesn't watch porn and totally straightedge".
mircea_popescu: ima go pour myself a triple and write a scathing piece about fugazi and mackaye
phf: that buttery-smooth-emacs was a torture to read. it's like a text equivalent of those "heeeeeeeyyy guys it's me i'm back with yet another!! hello!!" youtube videos
trinque: he's talking about the cuckgrin and weird goatee, I'm sure
trinque: reminds my of my parents idiot dog that nervously stares at you as if to say "I am good boy???"
trinque: narcissist self-sustains; that thing needs pats on the head
trinque: oh yeah, it's going mad in the house
trinque: I watched it last week, treated it like a dog, and it was fine
mircea_popescu: i watched yest the greatest thing ever. people took dog out to park, nice flat coated retriever. young, fulla life.
mircea_popescu: it made a bird friend! the bird would swoop in squaking, feet in front of the dog, who'd chase it like crazy, then once it's mommentum ran out the bird'd wingflap to the closest tree, rest a little and swoop again.
mircea_popescu: that dog ran 30mph for a solid 20 minutes until it fell on its face.
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea how they imagine physical security is to work in the hands of an adversary.
mircea_popescu: pro tip : you can still jumpstart cars today as in 1916
mircea_popescu: also i have nfi how they imagine reality works, but in principle it's true that "the random process of nuclear decay is the gold standard of rngs" FOR THE REASON that you can't use arithmetics to distinguish one clump of radioactive substance from "another" clump.
mircea_popescu: this should be fucking evident, either they're biased or they're not biased.
mircea_popescu: golden toilet aside, the major expense is geting the clump of plutonium
mircea_popescu: yes, but reality is more encompassing than engineering. so suppose i submerge the chest in fumaric acid and you lose.
mircea_popescu: you can't predict what i'll do, and you can't ensure against all the things i might do.
mircea_popescu: but the key factor there is that mines are not valuable.
mircea_popescu: which is why modern-day banks are typically not even safe'd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform problem is that the deck is stacked so much against people. plutonium is like gold, inert chemically, very heavy, etc. it stands out in physical reality like a naked supermodel among a coder convention.
mircea_popescu: yes, all "costs", esp in the sense that if your industrial base sucks, you don't get one.
mircea_popescu: but if your industrial base dun suck, pu pile is still the more expensive part.
mircea_popescu: in the end, all this is an exact re-do of the "car ingnition control dun work" "hey it keeps the methheads at bay" "aokthen"
trinque recalls when nuke commander whatshisname was fired
mircea_popescu: which is not even without merit : the next wikileaks may not leak words.
trinque: when you can't trust those, your problem lies not in engineering...
mircea_popescu: people somehow bought into this "public opinion as an aggregate of the supposed opinions of irrelevant individual cattle MATTERS!!1", and so we had wikileaks.
mircea_popescu: as ~everyone with two neurons to rub together has been disabused of this notion, the next guy who wants to change.org might as well point a nuke to the white house.
mircea_popescu: note in passing that one of the more substantial objections "people in the know" aka niggers raise to a trump presidency is that "he won't be able to staff wh, he could barely staff his campaign".
mircea_popescu: somehow they elide the obvious point that his right move, and his coherent with himself move, is to simply FIRE EVERYONE and then hire people as he perceives the need.
mircea_popescu: first week, wifey can cook, once she's tired of it white house gets its first cook.
mircea_popescu: ivanka can pick up phones until old man trump thinks she had enough, at which point wh gets its first secretary
mircea_popescu: they all live closeby too, because dun wanna commute until they get blinkenlichten, and so double kill.
phf: !~later tell gabriel_laddel have you considered putting ~everything~ masamune into a single tree, prepatched, so that instead of "load X, then load my patch-foo-for-X" you just have everything under single hierarchy exactly the way you expect it to run in production?
jhvh1: phf: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: (in the process benefiting him by exposing bugs he dun know about)
trinque: the framing of it there is lulzy
trinque: the piece is a hit on his security practices
trinque: "What's the matter Mr. Trump? We already provided you bodyguards!"
☟︎ phf: well, if he thinks that's a good idea, he might potentially save me a bunch of work :}
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> pro tip : you can still jumpstart cars today as in 1916 << Some German "innovashuns" are exceptions. Unless your bar for "jumpstarting" only carries to turning motor over then still true.
trinque: phf: it's getting interesting right? it's not the final solution, but it'd be a step up from emacs if it works.
trinque: and it'd be nice just to lean on mcclim real hard and see what breaks
phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect
☟︎☟︎ phf: in before asciilifeform's "clim is evil because athena"
trinque: mmmm working quickly over here
phf: i'm trying to spin up at least one instance of lispworks/allegro clim to see if it might be faster, but so far it's proving... difficult.
trinque: but like I said, want to lean on it to find out, not decided by any means
trinque: And former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page is alleged to have visited with two Russian government officials in a possible effort to open a diplomatic backchannel with the Kremlin, according to U.S. officials. << my god, talking with russians!
trinque: asciilifeform: running mcclim over here on a puny armhf without lag
trinque: ttf, just a screen with some gadgets that update periodically with new data
trinque: screen's updated with same events that are fired from user input.
trinque: I know the latency precisely
phf: asciilifeform: it's possible they sped it up since last time we tried it
trinque: I'm comparing it to other tk
trinque: you're comparing it to god's own computer
trinque: release the system; I'll use
trinque: this is much better than the Qt I used for this same application before
phf: trinque: "dog slow" is a term of art, and it's inherent in mcclim design, because of how it's layered. "feels fast to me" is the worst possible measure of it. asciilifeform is not being particularly precise with his terminology, but you will run into dog slow once you start trying out corner cases (long unwrapped lines, fast rapid draws, massive repl outputs)
trinque: sometimes you're a completely ridiculous man, you know.
trinque: phf: there's no suck fucking feels fast
trinque: I can tell you precisely how long redisplay-frame-pane or w/e takes depending on what's updated
phf: asciilifeform: i can feel delays in x11 emacs after working on a hardware terminal, which makes me conclude that "feels" kind of changes once you get used to it. i can't use popular hipster software for example, because it's definitely slower
phf: asciilifeform: inherent, because of how many layers message needs to pass through in order to do a key-press <-> render roundtrip. accelerator is not going to help there
trinque: I do not make decisions in life about what to do today based on somebody else's imagined tomorrow.
☟︎ trinque: if clim gets too slow for any of my use cases I'll find out where and work on it
trinque: if that proves impossible I'll move just like I did from commonqt
trinque: the fuck, I'm supposed to develop for DOS now?
phf: trinque: i don't think anyone's telling you what to do, but to honestly consider what you can observe, and compare it to what we can observe. asciilifeform is saying that clim is slow for him, i'm saying that there's something in clim design that makes it tricky to make it fast. it's a converstion.
phf: anyway, i want to try and deploy masamune, but i'm also trying to spin up clim2 to see if it's maybe less of a dog (i imagine it would be since it was probably battle optimized for all that ported-from-legacy contractor software)
trinque: whatever emotional tic this is whereby any mention of departure from turd island is not nearly far enough (!!1!!1) is no sort of conversation
trinque: but I will do some benchmarking, should be interesting
trinque: mkay. so the simulation part of your program has someting to do with how fast the display part runs?
trinque: your bare assertion that there's some kind of inherent lag in the redisplay loop does not meet my observations, i.e. right now on my desk
ben_vulpes: if the upside in the empire is 2k with diversity statements and safe spaces and codes of conduct...
trinque: I guess it's not clear that I'm proposing *eating* mcclim, hence what I said to g_l
ben_vulpes: fuck it. do it for tmsr~ the same way anyone else in the republic does it: because it's worth doing.
phf: well, mcclim layers things in a way that i thought was part of the spec, but turns out it was beach's decision (to among other things support multiple different backends). when i was trying to optimize the x11 backend last time, i was hitting multiple "independent" layers, that all demanded attention. there wasn't really an 80/20 solution, which made me conclude that there's not a single subtrate that you can optimize (the way, say,
phf: blit operations are your 80% in a traditional display framework), which usually is a sign of "too many layers"
trinque: I'm irritated he didn't genesis v-patch the thing
☟︎ trinque: phf: g_l wants to rip out all backends but CLX iirc, which sounds like it allows for fixing that
ben_vulpes: i'm less up in arms about the vpatch than i am about continuing to lend credence to imperial operations like github et al. "dear mcclim donor".
phf: not unless on top of your multiple layers you start introducing action from distance.
trinque: none of this multiple points of bring your own feelings bullshit
trinque: heh such clim, much circle
trinque: asciilifeform: really sounds like factional wars inside usg eh?
trinque: phf: what's going on with the title bar there? weird rendering artifacts?
phf: trinque: it's a cyberpunk-ish theme hack from back when you could customize os x's look and feel
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:39 trinque: "What's the matter Mr. Trump? We already provided you bodyguards!"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:43 asciilifeform: '“I would highly doubt that they’re armed,” he said, “that poses a greater threat. Normally, standard operating procedure for the Secret Service is to never have armed security around our protectee—ever. Even working closely with sworn law enforcement officers around the protectee is a very delicate situation.”' << lel, no word on whether clitler and the monkey disarmed mr t's guards, but... we'll PRETEND! they did. appar
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:45 asciilifeform: '... just over a week before the presidential election, top Democrats are demanding that he level the playing field and disclose what the FBI knows about Republican nominee Donald Trump’s possible ties to the Russian government.'
trinque spends too much time trying to read lips
trinque: might be "you bitch" with last syllable cut off
BingoBoingo: Step 1: I am powerless over lulz and my lyfe has become unmanageable!
phf: girl with no butt enjoying much butt
mircea_popescu: they're not speaking english. like you know, most females that a) ever get fucked and b) someone'd ever contemplate fucking
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:56 trinque: I do not make decisions in life about what to do today based on somebody else's imagined tomorrow.
BingoBoingo kept telling self *this* is last US election qntricle before results, but emergent lulz flow from artesian laff fountain
mircea_popescu: should have prolly run uci on them rather. but of course no uci yet.
trinque: mircea_popescu: I can't develop on that imagined computer any more than Eulora wrote its own OS.
trinque: that one might have to do that for both cases in the future granted.
mircea_popescu: trinque wasn't waht i meant. just, your spring sprung too far s'all
mircea_popescu: "CIA is cyber B-Team, yes? Where is cyber A-Team?" << i lollered. where, they're gone, locked in alf's basement.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the guy has it, the us lost air superiority sometime in 2010ish and lost cyber presence cca 2015. they're on par with serbia today.
mircea_popescu: what this has to do with their failure to obey the republic will, of course, never be documented.
mircea_popescu: the us does not have the intellectual capacity to develop new tools in general, and computing in particular. all they have is inherited, and everything they lose is irreplaceable.
mircea_popescu: odds are teh usg wrote its own imaginary emails in an outlook server, if you mean the recent thing.
mircea_popescu: xilinx.e-technik.uni-rostock.de___139.30.202.12/ << lol!
mircea_popescu: i suspect this list may not be entirely correct. looks autogenerated.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Naturally there is *no way* that this introduction of the "baked in" line's introduction could have been coordinated." <
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 18:09 asciilifeform: if proggy's job is to let me fiddle something in real time, there must be 0 palpable delay. you would not put up with a light switch that takes random(5,10) seconds to light, and to switch off.
mircea_popescu: my call times out, thereby let us point out to phf that what calling something a term of art means is that you have a ready and perfect definition of the term in the respective context. no exceptions.
mircea_popescu: as far as anyone knows, dog slow kinda means exactly that "irritatingly slow to me", to which "i don't feel any delays" is a valid counter.
phf: mircea_popescu: dog slow is same as intractable but applied to system design, solution that theoretically works but in practice takes too long to be useful. depending on the kind of algorithms involved dog slow has different solutions, like if it's a linear algorithm, then you can solve dog slow with a faster machine, but if it's a polynomial complexity algorithm, then dog slow might be solved by putting constraints on inputs
phf: so depending on what sort of algorithms are used (i.e. knowing how mcclim works) a "get a faster machine" might be a valid response to "mcclim is slow", or it can be invalid, if, say, there's combinatorial exposition in the component interaction, or if there's a polynomial behavior in large text processing (those are two usual suspects)
mircea_popescu: i dun think that's the common meaning ; but if that's what you use, fair enuff.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, because you have a magic ball and know wtf he's looking at as he says that ?
mircea_popescu: phf in my head, if the algo is correct but the problem too hard, then the problem is just too hard ; whereas if the algo is wrong for the problem, or badly implemented, then there's that. i suppose you could say "linear sort is dog slow", though.
jurov: lol why you must make such dire metaphors
trinque: my i7 isn't fast enough for ya?
jurov: would be completely sufficient to say the reality - new cars with turbocharger have second lag from gas pedal
phf: asciilifeform: i don't actually know about that, i gotta try it myself now :) i think we might've both tried it around the same time
jurov: asciilifeform: no you dream about emiting phosgene instead
trinque: my claim btw was *not* that it's perfect.
trinque: to restate, and then I'm bored of this, getting no perceptable lag whatsoever between firing events to the event queue and seeing the screen redraw.
trinque: I will rape the thing with a huge benchmark and speak of it further at that time.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "Naturally there is *no way* that this introduction of the "baked in" line's introduction could have been coordinated." < << ty fxd
trinque: couldn't agree more that religion/ritual cannot drive design choices.
trinque: "I am doing the smart thing by using Lisp; what blemishes?"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:45 phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect
mircea_popescu: i dunno who cares about boot times, a machine that's booted isn't intended for serious use anyway
☟︎ mircea_popescu: that was the lulz of all time with systemd coupla years ago, the "selling point" of "faster boot times. for servers."
mircea_popescu: from people who never ran servers, for people who never will run servers, with love & mucho concern.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 19:37 mircea_popescu: i dunno who cares about boot times, a machine that's booted isn't intended for serious use anyway
mircea_popescu: sure. none of which run stuff made this decade anyway.
phf: of course, how else would you do telemetry
phf: not to mention avionics
ben_vulpes: didja bring trinque a vpatch, gabriel_laddel ?
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: phf: I have. It is called masamune, and you buy a discrete box from me that comes with everything on it.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 04:04 mircea_popescu: anyway, the linked github is like the first laddel piece over a few dozen words that nevertheless made sense from end to end.
phf: oh i guess you pulled all the masamune material on account of selling it? i remember there was a bunch of dedicated content, that's no longer there (arsstep being one of them)
trinque: where are they going to be sold, what's included, how much?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm just selling them by hand at the moment in the bay area (going to google for a scheme meetup to hawk product here in ~.5 hrs)
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: When my life is less shit I'll be setting up a method by which in-WOT people can get it for free. You all, of course, will be able to sell the same product I am.
☟︎ trinque: that "free" can run counter to the "life is less shit"
phf: trinque: wait, so what are you running? just own run of mcclim, or you actually have masamune deployed
trinque: idgaf about free compared to say *mcclim got finished*
gabriel_laddel: I've been charging $200 on top of the price of hardware, but as of today (and an extended navigator that indexes all symbols and their types) - 300
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: trinque: as for what is included: McCLIM integrated with: macsyma, femlisp, MJRCALC, a manual, nope.js and more-or-less broken prototypes of everything else on the splash screen screenshot.
gabriel_laddel: translates js to parenscript and parenscript to js, integrated with the conkeror web browser (has same keybindings as emacs)
trinque just diddles firefox over mozrepl
trinque: my point of interest is developing climthings in a climthing
trinque: would pay for this *if done*
trinque: and more than you said there
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm working on completing the whole CLIM environment, but am not there yet. Still have to tie all the new logic for reflective search for generic functions specialized on arbitrary types, lambda lists of length, and return values of type to the navigator.
gabriel_laddel: The inspector needs to have Isearch across all inspected objects, the graph walking facility needs to be integrated into the GUI..
trinque: well I'm not going anywhere :p
phf: gabriel_laddel: i wasn't thinking of selling your product, but i wouldn't mind trying to do the deployment on a own hardware
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: phf: you can do whatever. It will be free for in-wot people and I encourage you all to turn it into money.
trinque: I can't help but see braindead open-sores-ism in that.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 02:50 asciilifeform: where is the mega-profit he boasted of having from his worx ??
trinque: most here are not hurting for money and pay for actual tools
trinque: and the "free" can be an excuse to not produce a complete tool
trinque: death to "patches welcome"
trinque: not like I don't want the source, but you understand my meaning
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 02:49 asciilifeform: and over what did gabriel_laddel and this d00d quibble over, what was it, < 1k usd ?!
gabriel_laddel: Since then all he has done is play around with fonts to try and make them "cross platform" or something.
gabriel_laddel:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560716 < it may be that CLIM itself sucks -- but the implementation is 100% common lisp and is easy enough to mechanically alter if you have problems with it. Should tmsr~ decide to strip whatever features from CLIM and alter the spec, at least we have a codebase and spec to argue about and something working to us
☝︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:45 phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect
trinque: it turned out that I was using some ancient mcclim from a copy of their old CVS on a particular dev machine
trinque: found this out a few days ago
trinque: points to the alert reader who understands why this took so long to notice
trinque: had brand new mcclim on another dev machine
gabriel_laddel: have you seen the *new* *improved* defsystem layout yet?
trinque: I am on the latest from the pre-fork maintainers
trinque: re alf's realtime rant, I can't see how that's not possible, perhaps by interrupting an ongoing redisplay with a condition?
trinque: and even without fancy shit like that, I don't notice a damn thing lagging
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 18:14 trinque: I'm irritated he didn't genesis v-patch the thing
trinque: the same was contemplated for trb; it doesn't rule out use of V
trinque: you observed certain cultural hazards inherent in the way shithub works
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:48 gabriel_laddel:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560716 < it may be that CLIM itself sucks -- but the implementation is 100% common lisp and is easy enough to mechanically alter if you have problems with it. Should tmsr~ decide to strip whatever features from CLIM and alter the spec, at least we have a codebase and spec to argue about and something working to us
gabriel_laddel: Noted. When I get a chance I will look into V. This means _after_ the world replication works. Which, for whatever reason, produces a linux kernel that kernel panics on startup.
trinque: fwiw ben_vulpes already had a cl-V in the works
BingoBoingo: *Destro << ben_vulpes stahp using their vocabulary.
BingoBoingo: A Republican Operating System Kernel+Userland should not be referred to by such hippy dippy terms like "Distro". It is a "Destro", a tool like a reciprocating saw, rotary hammer, or blasting cap.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 20:01 asciilifeform: (recently i was handling some vaguely ubuntu-derived abortion and clicked 'no thx' and was treated to it loading ANYWAY)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "CenturyLink Acquiring "Level 3" As Internet Transit Routes Consolidates" << consolidate ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:30 gabriel_laddel:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560469 < would you mind reviewing arsttep? I'm shipping it with each machine as part of the manual and would like for others to be able to understand it.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:34 gabriel_laddel: I've been charging $200 on top of the price of hardware, but as of today (and an extended navigator that indexes all symbols and their types) - 300
mircea_popescu: i think it's a very bad idea to misrepresent this (here) as "selling the box" because it'll cause you nothing but frictive grief.
mircea_popescu: shinohai you know where there's the src and everyone sane can ftjam it into a working binary within 20 minutes except you still get o spend your life telling people things ?
shinohai: Someone has to teach Republican Kindergarten
mircea_popescu: ie very patient tech support for people who have no business touching tech in the first place.
shinohai: I almost lost patience with anond until diana_coman made me feel bad about it.
ben_vulpes: "computronium: not to be handled by children or idiots!"
mircea_popescu: i never had any patience to begin with ; consequently - i can't ever lose it.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:32 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm just selling them by hand at the moment in the bay area (going to google for a scheme meetup to hawk product here in ~.5 hrs)
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560997 << this is exactly how it goes, on one end of that : everyone has his own boxes / his own process for acquiring boxes. you can't buy them boxes and mail them over, not really, and if you could it'd be a specialized job and wouldn't work like this. and this isn't even the only angle, people are also variously allergic to divers proteins involved etc.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:40 phf: gabriel_laddel: i wasn't thinking of selling your product, but i wouldn't mind trying to do the deployment on a own hardware
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:48 gabriel_laddel:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560716 < it may be that CLIM itself sucks -- but the implementation is 100% common lisp and is easy enough to mechanically alter if you have problems with it. Should tmsr~ decide to strip whatever features from CLIM and alter the spec, at least we have a codebase and spec to argue about and something working to us
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 22:49 BingoBoingo: Or OSzall
jhvh1: phf: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell gabriel_laddel this thing is long, ima read it later today.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.