log
17316
mircea_popescu: !up hagbardgroup
hagbardgroup: (Still reading through tutorial material)
mircea_popescu: good for you.
mircea_popescu: "The biggest thing you can write in C++ is... also an operating system. Well, maybe a little bigger. Let's say three times bigger. Or even ten times. But operating system kernels are at most, what, maybe a million lines of code? So I'd argue the biggest system you can reasonably write in C++ is maybe 10 million lines, and then it starts to break down and become this emergent thing that you have no hope of controlling,
mircea_popescu: like the plant in Little Shop of Horrors. Feeeeeed meeeeeee...
mircea_popescu: If you can get it to compile by then, that is.
mircea_popescu: We have 50 million lines of C++ code. No, it's more than that now. I don't know what it is anymore. It was 50 million last Christmas, nine months ago, and was expanding at 8 million lines a quarter. The expansion rate was increasing as well. Ouch."
mircea_popescu: guy who work[ed?] at amazon.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: steve yegge?
mircea_popescu: seriously, 50mn lines of code ? there's no need to write 50 mn lines of code. for anything.
mircea_popescu: god himself uses fewer than 50mn lines of code
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel exactly.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Funny little bit of history. Steve Y. goes on and on and on about how C++, java, etc. (algol derivatives) predictably create massively bloated codebases, gives lip service how Lisp solves these problems (which is does) and then goes back to... writing in ~ALGOL. (I asked a Googler who was recently on the same team as Steve what language they worked in - Java.)
mircea_popescu: https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/tour-de-babel << the origin.
assbot: tour-de-babel - steveyegge2
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel why do you think that is ?
gabriel_laddel: He got old and fat, making a change was too much for him. He says that there are 'problems' with (common) lisp. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/04/lisp-is-not-acceptable-lisp.html
assbot: Stevey's Blog Rants: Lisp is Not an Acceptable Lisp
kakobrekla: cause they code for living
gabriel_laddel: Silicon valley is basically just a slightly more white version of (¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.-> [ Luxor Centre For Businessmen ] <-.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯)
mircea_popescu: o.o you got that saved ?
gabriel_laddel: yeah.
mircea_popescu: now is this kinda like c or kinda like lisp, you'd say ?
gabriel_laddel: Anything ~ALGOL derived.
mircea_popescu: no. i mean the fact that you have a string stored, and an apparatus to retrieve and use it in place.
gabriel_laddel: Lisp thing. Emacs gave it to me in.... less than 3 seconds.
mircea_popescu: through a string of perl ?
gabriel_laddel: C-b ".notes" C-r "luxor"
gabriel_laddel: (C-<whatever> meaning 'control' + whatever)
mircea_popescu: ah but this is only half the story. you also saved it there, and saved the "notes" string somewhere etc.
mircea_popescu: admire the pile of crap that the whole software involved is.
gabriel_laddel: I don't understand what you're getting at. (emacs) Lisp still has to store things in files.
mircea_popescu: in other words, back to the topic : i think the people arguing that c is just the way to talk to the c-machine, aka von neumann machine have it wrong - c is just the way average people abstract. fortunately that fit into an already existing machine, but if it hadn't it'd have been forcibly fit anyway.
danielpbarron: ;;gettrust gabriel_laddel
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask gabriel_laddel!~user@c-67-161-28-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=danielpbarron&dest=gabriel_laddel | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gabriel_laddel | Rated since: Sun Aug 3 11:48:26 2014
danielpbarron: oh, new guy :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00074253 = 17.7093 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: !s MPEX PAID
assbot: 83 results for 'MPEX PAID' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=MPEX+PAID
mod6: lol 8m additional lines per q!? that's just nuts
mircea_popescu: mod6 no, it's "an economy". imagine, that's the bread of what, 500 derps ?
mircea_popescu: at least. fifty idiots get to go around telling young women about their imminent promotion to higher-middle manager because of it
mod6: haha, staggers the imagination
mod6: and you're right, 50m lines of code? that does what!!?
mircea_popescu: the only conceivable purpose i can see for government would be to allocate limits. you want to write a facebook ? register with govt, get a 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot.
mircea_popescu: after they're done with congress. "all laws fit in 500 pages. you want new ones ? delete old ones."
mircea_popescu: enforced brevity ftw.
mod6: some kinda hard-limit ya
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust nanotube
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nanotube!~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user nanotube: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 14 via 10 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=nanotube | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nanotube | Rated since: Mon Nov 8 13:14:09 2010
mircea_popescu: how the hell did he get under 1
thestringpuller: /window 42
mircea_popescu: a nm
pete_dushenski: howdy.
pete_dushenski: TheNewDeal: surprised they didn't make a pitch to increase the blocksize limit << lol
mod6: saw a lot of action on your blog about that topic btcpete
mircea_popescu: "Perl has the best marketing in the world. You could write a book about how brilliant their marketing is. Sun has marketed Java with money, and Perl is almost keeping up, popularity-wise, purely on the on sheer marketing brilliance of Larry Wall and his buddies. Folks at Harvard Business School should study Perl's marketing. It's astonishing."
mircea_popescu: shit i wasn't aware anyone realised this
pete_dushenski: mod6: ya, it was a fun last 48 hours :)
pete_dushenski: 3000+ words of comments
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski anything good ?
pete_dushenski: hmm. let me see if i can dig up a quote or two worth repeating...
asciilifeform: there's no need to write 50 mn lines of code. for anything. <<<<<
pete_dushenski: this one by "zeke" was decidedly luzly from a few angles:
pete_dushenski: "Gavin has done quite a lot for the bitcoin project, and is one of the few people who can credibly represent it to lay people. Still, I agree with the Romanian school inasmuch as the blockchain increase seems unnecessary and potentially disastrous to me. It’s inviting a fork that will not be honored by a large portion of the current hash power, and the current wallet balance. Thus it is a Bad Idea. What about side
pete_dushenski: chains, and all the other ways that BTC can grow in real transaction volume?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: shit i wasn't aware anyone realised this << naggum did.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu you are now the bearer of "the romanian school" torch!
pete_dushenski: also, what fuckin sidechainz amirite
mircea_popescu: o the romanian school is it ?
mircea_popescu: fucking hell romania is going to end up accidentally famous by mistake.
mircea_popescu: typical for that place.
pete_dushenski: lol
pete_dushenski: who says mistake?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did anyone write a full analysis of it, or just mention it in passing ?
pete_dushenski: let's work from causes, neh?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski by mistake as in, gavin fucked up.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naggum never wrote a full anything, afaik, apart from 'a long and painful history of time'
pete_dushenski: aic ya that's way funnier :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but three or four of his posts add up to a sort of treatise on perl
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski wouldja consider adding a recent comments list ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean specifically the marketing of.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: c is just the way average people abstract << if only. invited to reread the infamous 'the camel has two humps.'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol funny you should mention that… i was toying around with that this morning, trying to add a second sidebar column a la trilema and… i fucking borkt the whole thing.
pete_dushenski: thankfully, i had made a back-up but i was pretty choked for a minute cuz the auto-save didn't include that last article about gavin's retardation
pete_dushenski: but all is well now!
asciilifeform: (short version of 'the camel' - prospective 'comp sci' students were given tests on basic things, e.g., 'a = 1, b = 2, a + b = ?' - and they separated into 2 groups, ones who had correct answrs. or at least consistent misconceptions - and ones who did not. the latter - turned out, unsurprisingly, to be unteachable.)
pete_dushenski: ok. 5 recent comments added below the recent articles.
pete_dushenski: still single sidebar
asciilifeform: 'thing you can write in C++ is... also an operating system...' << winblows.
pete_dushenski: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amid-buyback-backlash--what-else-can-slow-growing-ibm-or-bed-bath-do-163617528.html << those stilts.
mircea_popescu: "It doesn’t matter what the minors feel like “honoring.” The miners will follow the full nodes; they won’t waste energy mining the fork when its coins aren’t worth the time it takes to send them to an exchange." danielpbarron << all the miners run (multiple) full nodes.
mircea_popescu: this is the ad-hoc, market driven fix to the problem of node disenfranchisement as ordained by his satoshiness.
mircea_popescu: (there's an extra bit in there, where people with a lot of exposure, financial, intellectual, emotional, w/e also run full nodes - but generally they also won't be following patently insane notions a la "let's make the blocks infinite")
asciilifeform: (obligatory: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3068978379837591@naggum.no.html << re c++)
assbot: Re: Prolog vs. Lisp - Naggum cll archive
mircea_popescu: "To soften my comment, I would not want to replace Gavin with some loony that thinks the USG is competent enough to undermine bitcoin in any organized way. All this talk about Mike and Gavin being stooges is absurd, and undermines my respect for much of the other (very insightful) stuff you guys write on the Internet. They can be wrong, without being corrupt."
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: how can one even make, with any serious logical certainty, a statement like 'i have one bitcoin' without running a full node?
asciilifeform: (or at least, having a very good friend who does)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does one say "i have a wife" ?
pete_dushenski: ha!
mircea_popescu: "these are my children" ? "this is my house". most property owners don't own their own torens title bureaus
pete_dushenski: not, i suppose, as opposed to saying "a wife has me"
pete_dushenski: "i have a car" (on lease for 48 months)
pete_dushenski: at least most people have their clothes and the groceries in their fridges
pete_dushenski: not that they're wise enough to brag about it
asciilifeform: slightly different situation here. btc user without full node is just as likely to be walking around in a barrel, deluded by dope into thinking he's driving a car (like the characters in s. lem's 'futurological congress')
asciilifeform: then again, world is full of bastard children and questionable wives, so perhaps similar.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ty for another comment! that post deserves a plaque for the names it's attracted.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski there, enjoy one more then. http://contravex.com/2014/10/07/how-a-bigger-blockchain-is-less-secure-and-why-block-size-aint-gonna-increase-any-time-soon/#comment-29734
assbot: How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain't Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol. nice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider. measurably.)
pete_dushenski: also the gap between brk-a and btc narrowed by, what, 5% today?
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 365.81, Best ask: 366.4, Bid-ask spread: 0.59000, Last trade: 366.4, 24 hour volume: 47259.77924389, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.139461234
mircea_popescu: lol i stand to make a pretty penny there, don't i.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: off like a bandit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd rather sit in a hazmat suit and read good prose than live in a meadow of paper.
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: !up Sweeters
pete_dushenski: man the recent comments on this theme are fugly. all title and no text. wtf.
mircea_popescu: "Every 15 years or so, languages are replaced with better ones. C was replaced by C++, at least for large-scale application development by people who needed performance but desperately wanted data types too. C++ is being replaced by Java, and Java will doubtless be replaced with something better in seven years — well, seven years after it finishes replacing C++, which evidently hasn't fully happened yet, mostly becau
mircea_popescu: se Microsoft was able to stall it before it became ubiquitous on the desktop. But for server-side applications, C++ is basically on its way out."
mircea_popescu: way to be wrong.
asciilifeform: 'better ones' << mega-lol
mircea_popescu: turns out that C/C++ are sorta like me. keep being "in the process of" being superseeded periodically, then the would-be revolutionizer dies.
mircea_popescu: "Perl will be gone soon, too. That's because a new language called Ruby has finally been translated into English."
mircea_popescu: irl, ruby got raped with an insecurity stick almost as big as my schlong, and perl still reigns
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then the would-be revolutionizer dies << notice, no new machines.
asciilifeform: (because those cost actual money to build, among other reasons)
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: well, luckily you're not a codger, so who knows what the future brings.
asciilifeform: 'don't wait for bus, you might be the driver' etc
mod6: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 324627 | Current Difficulty: 3.500248202613323E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 326591 | Next Difficulty In: 1964 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 43040927023.6 | Estimated Percent Change: 22.96536
mod6: %v
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 180 Ask: 225 Last Price: 255 30d-Vol: 174k 30d-High: 266 30d-Low: 180 30d-VWAP: 199
mircea_popescu: like the world's most stable altcoin
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/internet-watch-foundation-claims-bitcoin-increasingly-used-to-purchase-cp/
asciilifeform: quite a few are stable at 0...
kakobrekla: hehe
mircea_popescu: now this is true
mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie
gribble: I have not seen bluemeanie.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie1
gribble: I have not seen bluemeanie1.
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2014/10/cryptocoinsnews-is-anything-but/#comment-58 check out the dramas.
assbot: CryptoCoinsNews Is Anything But News
cazalla: i'm lovin' it
mircea_popescu: i thought that guy was in here but apparently gribble never saw it
asciilifeform: !s BlueMeanie4
assbot: 817 results for 'BlueMeanie4' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=BlueMeanie4
asciilifeform: (same or not? devil knows)
mircea_popescu: ah ok
pete_dushenski: ;;seen pankkake
gribble: pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 days, 11 hours, 59 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <pankkake> here is 0.000195.
RagnarDanneskjol: I met caleb chen from ccn last weekend - seems like a nice kid and is fully cognizant of his site's derpidity - people are still eating it up, so he's all 'fuck it' - no incentive to do otherwise (besides lost dignity). apparently they have like 40 part-time writers 'on-staff'
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell pankkake i'm getting the following error running your node.sh script: "The following packages have unmet dependencies: udev : Breaks: plymouth (< 0.9.0-7) but 0.8.5.1-5 is to be installed E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages." << please to help!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: and ima a be off to the racquet club!
cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, that's interesting
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol so maybe have him drop by
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: ;;seen BlueMeanie4
gribble: BlueMeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <BlueMeanie4> hello from Murica
RagnarDanneskjol: will do
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell BlueMeanie4 so what about that nxt/devwork story ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#866880 << never thought i'd see the day mircea_popescu suggested government intervention on anything ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 00:22:32; mircea_popescu: the only conceivable purpose i can see for government would be to allocate limits. you want to write a facebook ? register with govt, get a 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot.
mircea_popescu: saying that the only thing this apple's good for is the pigs doesn't amount to a suggesting feeding the pigs.
gabriel_laddel: ;; google 3 generations of imbeciles was is enough
gribble: Buck v. Bell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell>; “Three Generations of Imbeciles Are Enough” - Genomics Law Report: <http://www.genomicslawreport.com/index.php/2009/06/25/three-generations-of-imbeciles-are-enough/>; Eugenics: Three Generations, No Imbeciles: Virginia, Eugenics ...: <http://exhibits.hsl.virginia.edu/eugenics/>
mircea_popescu: "(yeah, there are a bunch) are going to have to realize that if Lisp is ever going to be massively successful, it needs an overhaul. Or maybe a revolution. Contrary to what some might tell you, it doesn't need a committee, and it doesn't need a bunch of money. Linux proved exactly the opposite. Lisp needs a benevolent dictator. Lisp needs to ditch the name "Lisp", since it scares people. And Lisp needs to learn from th
mircea_popescu: e lessons of the 45 years of languages that have followed it."
mircea_popescu: this is an interesitng theory. i suspect it's actually true.
asciilifeform: one problem - there is not actually a programming language called 'lisp'.
asciilifeform: not since 1962 or so.
thestringpuller: common lisp
thestringpuller: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he makes this point yes.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I doubt this very much. 'Lisp' simply needs managers to understand why they should order those not good enough to sling dope to write it.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "other than being uncommon, common lisp is also not lisp"
thestringpuller: yea, which is funny.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel in practice that sort of manager is a dictator.
thestringpuller: or at least to me.
thestringpuller: those not good enough to sling dope...that sounds familiar...
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: not necessarily. middle management worldwide likes java... why?
gabriel_laddel: one argument,
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69
assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs.
gabriel_laddel: ;; google site: loper-os.org where lisp fails
gribble: Loper OS: <http://www.loper-os.org/>; Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs.: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69>; Loper OS » Lisp: <http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=33>
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: because marginal hires won't ruin your codebase quite as badly ?
ben_vulpes: marginal hires have a hard time hacking it in lisp shops.
gabriel_laddel: does anyone really think that an extra 8mm LoC per quarter is ''not ruining things quite as badly?'
ben_vulpes: imposes this floor on hire quality, reduces need to hire as rapidly.
ben_vulpes: 'course to leverage that, you gotta use the thing everywhere. makes it hard for the polyglot shop.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you kidding ? i doubt anyone even keeps track of mn granulairty.
asciilifeform: the whole concept of vast galley of slaves, fungible, working on a massive codebase, is fundamentally braindamaged.
ben_vulpes: ^^
decimation: I was cursing python's inability to easily rewrite itself today
ben_vulpes: "9 women, 1 month"
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: people not keeping track of this is the problem.
asciilifeform: once grasp this, the only thing left is instrument for maximizing - at the cost of burned orphanages of any and all kinds, dead puppies, kittens - abilities of individual man.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it'd better be because im betting on it getting blown out of the water.
mircea_popescu: and it's the one bet i'm least confident about.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: exactly.
mircea_popescu: well boys, this approach of yours has only the minor disadvantage that it goes exactly against the constitution of the city you live in.
gabriel_laddel: time for towns then, no?
mircea_popescu: it's not even a felony, it's outright treason.
mircea_popescu: sure.
gabriel_laddel: !s terry a davis
assbot: 0 results for 'terry a davis' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=terry+a+davis
mircea_popescu: i like how the b-a search function is self healing. not found anything ? try again!
asciilifeform: !s templeos
assbot: 3 results for 'templeos' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=templeos
asciilifeform: there we go.
decimation: the problem with lisp is that it is alient to the modern c-machine, especially the multi-core variety
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846772 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:28:42; asciilifeform: decimation: 'crazy' is the reason he actually got to work!
gabriel_laddel: It's a pity Terry doesn't frequent #b-a
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel can always drop him an invite.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: nah. he mostly posts output from his biblical shannonizer.
asciilifeform: literally.
asciilifeform: (his gizmo comes with a 'talk with god' proggy)
mircea_popescu: decimation i don't get this. all machines are multi-core
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitcoinezy-claims-ezy-bit-is-a-one-stop-shop-for-new-users/
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: have you spoken with him privately / had to filter his comments on loper?
mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo for the record, i like the slightly skeptical tone of qntra reporting. tech reporting has been awash in gushing for too damned long. some classical skepticism is in dire need.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he commented once, saying i must have stolen his name
decimation: http://xahlee.info/comp/Guy_Steele_parallel_computing.html
assbot: Guy Steele on Parallel Programing: Get rid of cons!
cazalla: btw, dude that runs that ezybit ran a now defunct seo company lol
asciilifeform: (which was nonsense, i stole it long, long ago from clifford simak's 'city.')
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Ah. In any case, imo he'
gabriel_laddel: s more entertaining than say ninjashotgun
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot gabriel_laddel
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask gabriel_laddel!4441a914@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.20. Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=gabriel_laddel | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gabriel_laddel | Rated since: Sun Aug 3 11:48:26 2014
gabriel_laddel: certainly more talented.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you know how to use this thing to self voice ?
gabriel_laddel: yes
decimation: mircea_popescu: The Register is the only non-pure-pr tech news source that I know of
asciilifeform: i still have no idea if he's an actual nutter or merely playing the part so he gets to eat.
asciilifeform: hell knows, people do odder things, to eat without having to slave.
mircea_popescu: decimation and, note, they also display the mild, 1700s skepticism.
decimation: yeah that's true, need more of that around
decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/10/amazon_retail_store/
assbot: Sh** just got real: Amazon to open actual shop in New York City The Register
decimation: amazon has jumped the shark
gabriel_laddel: decimation: re, the problem with lisp... this isn't CL's problem, and not a real problem anyway. Compare to writing ~ALGOL on c-machine.
decimation: ?? what part isn't the problem? 'automatic parallel-ization?
gabriel_laddel: you're claim is that the problem with lisp is that it's not built for the c-machine. my point is that even on c-machines it's still better than anything else out there.
decimation: that might be true, I'm not sure I can contain the set of all possible languages in my brain
gabriel_laddel: elaborate..?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: tricky bit here. until rather recently (2009-ish) this was debatable (sparse ecosystems of publicly-available libraries in cl to deal with unfortunately ubiquitous crud like www)
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I see. What I don't understand is why CLers haven't just ditched the web.
asciilifeform: problem (or not problem, depending on who you are) is that most cl work was and is done by 'naggum-like' figures - that is, behind closed doors, no public derping, no 'foss'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00074114 = 16.0086 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: indeed, for instance from the yegge article: "We retired Mailman. That's because we have the Quality With a Name — namely, Suckiness. We suck. We couldn't find anyone who was good enough at Emacs-Lisp to make it work. "
asciilifeform: again with the lisp lumping.
asciilifeform: as if emacs lisp had anything whatsoever to do with common lisp other than using s-expressios.
asciilifeform: *expressions
decimation: python is lisp too!
decimation: :)
asciilifeform: let's call 'c', 'pascal', 'python', 'fortran' --> ALGOL.
gabriel_laddel: done.
decimation: I'm game.
asciilifeform: except one problem
asciilifeform: this dignified the crud with name of a mostly honourable ancestor.
decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/06/sammy_splurging_on_semiconductor_fab/
assbot: Hot DRAM! Samsung splurges $15 BILLION on Korean chip fab The Register
asciilifeform: like calling modern euroderps 'romans' (or even 'gauls', etc)
asciilifeform: the ducks may have come from the trucks, but how now.
decimation: the obvious problem with derping on better hardware is the extremely high cost hurdle
mircea_popescu: !up gubatron
decimation: derping on c-machine is essentially free
asciilifeform: i just love it when some clinical idiot decides to make inferences from his derpitudinous youth involving elisp on x86 to actual lisp on actual iron built for it
asciilifeform: esp. if ignorant of the latter
mircea_popescu: unfortunately ubiquitous crud like www <<< there's a major paradigm shift underplayed here. for approximately 1980 (kiler micro) to 2009, the ONLY utility of computing was www. with bitcoin, the www is a minor point, other things are major points now.
mircea_popescu: and ill bbs.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I'm at a loss for a better name. ALGOL, ~algol or algol is fine with me. Even their honorable ancestor was part of a fruitless evolutionary tree.
decimation: in case folks haven't seen the latest amusement with x86: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/
assbot: Intel Underestimates Error Bounds by 1.3 quintillion | Random ASCII
asciilifeform: decimation: anyone who ever tries to actually use intel's trig functions - discovers this, yes.
asciilifeform: aaand,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853034 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 03:13:19; asciilifeform: phun phact. traditionally, the folks who write cpu manuals (how many people here have seen them alive? dead tree manuals) don't have access to original design specs.
asciilifeform: don't say i didn't warn.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853040 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 03:14:52; asciilifeform: so there is a mostly unwritten 'talmud' of differences between intel's manuals and the reality.
decimation: asciilifeform: in this case the error was so well-publicized intel promised to... update the docs
asciilifeform: etc
asciilifeform: afaik they don't even sell printed docs now.
asciilifeform: so, they'll update a pdf turd.
asciilifeform: big fat deal.
decimation: I wish I could just connect a pipe from the sse register to my own fpga machine
asciilifeform: decimation: what you may not know is that intel sells this. and amd as well. for $maxint.
asciilifeform: golden toilet for u.s. 'intelligence komyoonity'
decimation: yeah I've heard of the 'hybrid fpga cpu' design
asciilifeform: i've been trying, and failing, for some years, to get a hold of one (just one!) on the junk markets
thestringpuller: ;;later tell nubbins` let me know when a good time to discuss a second order with you. i think we may have sold all 6 shirts.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: similar animal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2014#795151 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2014 23:40:47; decimation: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/212001/Catapult_ISCA_2014.pdf << microserf implemented fpga co-processors for bing search, paper is mildly interesting
asciilifeform: not all that similar. cpu in fpga fabric. you can do this right now
asciilifeform: a few hundy of 'ebay' parts.
asciilifeform: i'm assuming you want a specifically x86 variant for something.
asciilifeform: because 'xilinx' sells, by the tonne, a large fpga with built in 'ppc' cores.
asciilifeform: (i own several.)
asciilifeform: (x86 is rather too complex to actually implement in any extant fpga and still leave room for something useful on top)
decimation: I guess I was thinking of "connecting the pipes"
asciilifeform: no real way of doing this at full clock
asciilifeform: other than to host them on one die
asciilifeform: hence the rarity.
decimation: today I was using the xilinix ise - it's a piece of shit
asciilifeform: aye, yes it is.
asciilifeform: and there is literally no alternative (other than 'altera' - who have a considerably fouler turd)
decimation: I've heard that the 'synplify' synthesizer is much better, but costs golden toilet cash
asciilifeform: the serious fpga market (vs. 'lattice' & friends, who largely get used for minor glue logic) is a duopoly.
asciilifeform: decimation: understand why the actual internals are secret.
asciilifeform: decimation: both 'xilinx' and 'altera' make the bulk of their profit by renting out the right to use 'cores' (as they call them) - libraries, to a normal person
asciilifeform: e.g., ethernet card
asciilifeform: dram controller
decimation: right, or softcpu with bus turd
asciilifeform: mips cpu
asciilifeform: etc.
asciilifeform: they have literally no way of enforcing their copyright other than obfuscation
asciilifeform: hence, some of the gnarliest, moving-target obfuscation in the known world.
asciilifeform: (each new series of 'xilinx' chip has considerably altered internals, to make past reverser's efforts less useful)
asciilifeform: basically, fpga works, but all existing high-density examples are sold by scammers of a kind - who absolutely could not abide the buyer using these items as the schoolbook promised - 'reconfigurable computer'
decimation: the problem is that one must compile a secret 'talmud' of RTL that can be written which will actually work, as opposed to being valid
asciilifeform: and an even gnarlier talmud of combinations that will result in anything like usable performance
asciilifeform: example.
asciilifeform: you can read an sdram spec by, e.g., 'micron' (i did) and implement a ddr2 sdram controller.
asciilifeform: but it won't work
asciilifeform: unless you can somehow learn where the chip's fabric puts various i/o in relation to other circuitry
asciilifeform: so everybody ends up using the vendor's.
decimation: depressingly, this results in large-scale projects being soft-cpu sequential turds, rather than asynchronous combinatorial nets where possible
asciilifeform: because fpga in the schoolbook sense is not actually available.
asciilifeform: at any price.
decimation: yeah ask any fpga design who have attempted to write 'ddr' interface if you want to hear sadness & tears
asciilifeform: you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it.
gabriel_laddel: am I correct in assuming that documenting efforts in reverse engineering a particular xlinx model is illegal / will land one in trouble with usg?
asciilifeform: one fellow got pretty far
asciilifeform: but problem is, such efforts are quickly obsoleted.
decimation: eh, I doubt usg will care much
asciilifeform: as in, by the time you're done, the chip is no longer commercially available in quantity.
decimation: it's more the issue ascii points out, if you want the latest shit you are out of luck
gabriel_laddel: I see.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25722 @ 0.00074334 = 19.1202 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: thing you must appreciate, if never having worked with fpga, is that they just barely work.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: do you have a link handy for the fellow who got pretty far?
asciilifeform: e.g., you can lay out the equivalent of a '486' and get around that performance, but only if you have some idea of the actual physical topology of the circuit.
asciilifeform: http://code.google.com/p/debit
assbot: debit - reverse-engineering tools for FPGA bitstreams - Google Project Hosting
asciilifeform: and elsewhere, i forget where
asciilifeform: http://www.fpgarelated.com/comp.arch.fpga/thread/62565/debit-xilinx-bitstream-decompiler-project-has-been-vanished-or-does-someone-know-the-url.php << censored now and again
assbot: debit- xilinx bitstream decompiler project has been vanished? or does someone know the URL | Comp.Arch.FPGA | FPGARelated.com
decimation: fyi http://www.parallax.com/microcontrollers/propeller-1-open-source
assbot: Propeller 1 Open Source | Parallax Inc
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> you'd have to buy 'xilinx' or 'altera' - the company - to go with the chip. and publicly gut it. << it will happen.
asciilifeform: decimation: there is no shortage whatsoever of open 'verilog' code for 10000+ things
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: decimation: thank you.
decimation: yeah, some of them are useful
asciilifeform: decimation: problem is lack of fpga with documented layout, so you aren't chained to a vendor's turdware.
decimation: I can't imagine that this business model of making enemies of your customers will survive
mircea_popescu: not with internet-connected customers. it just can;t.
asciilifeform: shame fpga was invented too late for soviet version
decimation: yeah that's a good point, why doesn't samsung or some chinese vendor bust this stuff up?
asciilifeform: decimation: bad fit for chinese business model
decimation: it's not like there's a mystery about how to design an fpga
asciilifeform: decimation: have to understand what fpga is used for
asciilifeform: it has very little role to play in the kind of items chicoms make
asciilifeform: mostly used in miniscule runs, prototypes - where american units generally suffice
asciilifeform: because it doesn't really matter what they cost
asciilifeform: the kind of machine that absolutely requires an fpga - simply has not been designed yet.
asciilifeform: and when designed - won't be chinese.
mircea_popescu: hm.
The20YearIRCloud: What kind of outlook do you guys have on silver & gold?
asciilifeform: i've been working on 'genuinely' reconfigurable cpu for some years now. but, understand, most of the reading i do - is material as old as i am.
asciilifeform: in ancient, dusty library.
mircea_popescu: but since losethos has been mentioned : i do suspect ninjashogun is of a similar brand, without of course the technical ability.
asciilifeform: because the subject 'is dead dontchaknow, study something modern like blubbazilla'
decimation: asciilifeform: the related topic of asynchronous design seems to be in the same state
asciilifeform: decimation: yes.
decimation: 'we don't do it because no chips and tools' 'no chips and tools because no demand'
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhRYGm_b9A
assbot: TempleOS: AfterEgypt - YouTube
asciilifeform: decimation: someone did build a clockless 'arm' a few years ago, an israeli firm quietly sells it for military clients, it's a footnote mostly.
asciilifeform: yes it is neat
mircea_popescu: !up devthedev
asciilifeform: but virtually impossible, last i tried, to actually run
The20YearIRCloud: clockless?
decimation: these folks http://apt.cs.manchester.ac.uk/projects/processors/amulet/
assbot: The Advanced Processor Technologies Group
devthedev: Good evening
asciilifeform: (won't go under 'vmware' or any machine i could dig up)
asciilifeform: losethos ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1 or so min. mark - the infamous 'talk to god' proggy.
mircea_popescu: the whole thing looks like open transactions.
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: my opinion - silver is an industrial metal, gold is going to be replaced by bitcoin in the long run but is still a reasonable altcoin - but note that it is not independent of gov'ts with big vaults of the stuff
The20YearIRCloud: You think govts are honest about their gold and metal reserves? decimation
mircea_popescu: it's improbable they'll move significantly either direction.
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: clockless - ie no clock - a cpu which executes instructions at whatever speed its logic circuits can cycle their state
The20YearIRCloud: I'm debating whether I want to get more BTC, PMs, or guns, or if I should balance what I have now a different way
The20YearIRCloud: I didn't realize that it was possible to do that, are the speeds typically much higher than what their clocked counterparts are?
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: they are about as honest with gold as they are with their btc holdings
mircea_popescu: decimation well, no. reversedly. for instance, germany claims to hold some gold it doesn't, and doesn't claim to hold any bitcoin, tho i think they do hold some.
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: they can be, but the problem is that they are 'difficult' to design because the soccer-ball-chasing-6-year-olds of academia & industry have declared the tech 'dead'
The20YearIRCloud: Germany is trying to get their gold back as it was all held in Paris, london and NYC. Out of all the countries I think they have a pretty transparent gold program, and it's showing how dishonest the US is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00074082 = 27.6326 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: myeah.
The20YearIRCloud: Isn't it the same way with large paralell programming (High multi-core stuff) as they've lagged behind on development so much that some consider it aobsolete?
decimation: mircea_popescu: good point. The ongoing drama with the fed & its german gold holdings is quite amusing
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: it's safe to say that writing software that makes efficient use of 'modern' multicore chip designs is not a simple undertaking
The20YearIRCloud: I wish it was easier to do, that way I could run dwarf fortress in all its glory
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guess what you and mr davis have in common.
decimation: lol I tried to play dwarf fortress once, it seemed like a colassal waste of time, but amusing
mircea_popescu: "I designed a 3 axis stepper-motor-driven milling machine 1996-1997 with a CAD/CAM package for a company I started called Home Automation and Robotic Equipment."
kakobrekla: its a popular thing.
The20YearIRCloud: It's fantastic, i'm told it has one of the worst learning curves even surpassing star control. But once you understand it, it's immensely fun
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 367.55, Best ask: 369.05, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 369.1, 24 hour volume: 47516.56487113, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.384866292
decimation: pete's link about companies on the 'buyback treadmill' is hilarious
The20YearIRCloud: buyback treadmill?
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#866926 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 00:44:58; pete_dushenski: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amid-buyback-backlash--what-else-can-slow-growing-ibm-or-bed-bath-do-163617528.html << those stilts.
decimation: large holders of bezzlars have no idea how to profitably invest them, so they just publically embezzle them
The20YearIRCloud: kind of throw the entire premise out when they start talking about wealth inequality
mircea_popescu: i don't get how cash distribution can be held against the management.
mircea_popescu: they're overcapitalized and downsizing. what's wrong with that ?
The20YearIRCloud: "It puts less money in the hands of the people that know what they're doing - the menial laborers'
decimation: mircea_popescu: normally it wouldn't, unless it is supiciously coupled with said management excercising their generous options
mircea_popescu: the traditional route is to pursue "sexy" mergers and go bankrupt a decade later. this is better for everyone.
mircea_popescu: decimation a well that's a diff story. but the problem are the generous options then.
decimation: mircea_popescu: agreed.
asciilifeform: cnc << i distinctly recall kakobrekla also has one.
asciilifeform: (built)
asciilifeform: http://ultrastudio.org/en/C_gate << intro to clockless for n00bs
assbot: C gate - Ultrastudio.org
asciilifeform: incidentally, goes great with trinary logic (how? exercise for alert reader.)
mircea_popescu: sooo... ipad has a memory leak
mircea_popescu: if you search for a generic term in their package manager and keep scrolling... eventually iot crashes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: almost every vendor proggy on that thing has leaks
asciilifeform: (crash on ios can, of course, result from conditions other than out-of-ram-kill)
mircea_popescu: apparently stevieboy's idea of apt-get is a sort of mozilla
mircea_popescu: and you bitch about the pile of turd that's c++/python software built on top of a c os ?
mircea_popescu: what's the ipad stack then.
gabriel_laddel: following up 20 post care package from #b-a blog roll http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758453 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EVPPZSYd ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-07-2014 20:32:30; mike_c: ok - compile a list of 20 blog posts from blogs.b-a that are appropriate to target. tweet one a day @ target.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel who's your target ?
thestringpuller: good evening hanbot or I guess morning?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: The list of targets, irc is Nick Szabo, Nicholas Taleb.
asciilifeform: lol!
hanbot: good timeperiod thestringpuller! :)
asciilifeform: i can't picture what taleb (or for that matter herr sz) would get out of my turds
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I sent it to Terry A Davis, perhaps he can be convinced to write Lisp...
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: davis reads my site, i think; grudgingly
mircea_popescu: is the guy actually nuts or just being an internet person ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his bread and rent are paid for by usg as 'disability pension'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so he has to be either 1) genuine nutter 2) play the part until he goes to his grave
mircea_popescu: o yea ? because if he stops what happens ?
asciilifeform: then he ends up like me, possibly
xanthyos: it's not difficult for an actor to get lost in that part
mircea_popescu: it is a pretty big part.
asciilifeform: 'we are what we pretend to be, so must be careful what we pretend to be'
asciilifeform: http://www.terna.org/enewsletter/Apr-Jun%202010/VLSI.pdf << trinary vlsi cells, for the really serious nutters
asciilifeform: http://dxdy.ru/topic1670-150.html << ru thread re: above.
assbot: : Computer Science - 11
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: re, what they could get out of your posts. You've rather clearly articulated the problem with the current computing stack. I'm unaware of any other person documenting the incumbent's desire to cater to the stupid. As thinking men, they must find it irritating to interface with today's machines.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the crux of the matter, though, is that the only possible proof is experimental. and so what i really should've worked on, instead of essays, would've been some scam like davis has
asciilifeform: because it is quite impossible to carry out the proof while day job.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I suppose. In any case, your essays exist.
asciilifeform: i've concinced perhaps... 3, 4, 5 people who actually understood what the hell the entire picture is about.
asciilifeform: i suppose that's more than some people can say.
asciilifeform: *convinced
mircea_popescu: there's probably thousands.
mircea_popescu: the trouble is, monkeys be lazy.
mircea_popescu: and laziness in monkeys is perhaps the most complex self-writing piece of software ever
asciilifeform: there's perhaps 2, 3 other monkeys who can do it also. but they're likely also stuck working for living.
asciilifeform: 1 of the 3 other monkeys, perhaps, knows russian (which imho is an absolute hard requirement for this particular stunt)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7897 @ 0.00074074 = 5.8496 BTC [-]
cazalla: ;;later tell devthedev i changed a few things so that article is not overly promotional for altcoins or snapcard/wix
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: and cazalla tellin' me he ain't an editor
thestringpuller: ;)
cazalla: thestringpuller, i said writer, not editor :P
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/wix-com-integration-with-snapcard-allows-sites-to-accept-bitcoin/
thestringpuller: how does day 8 look?
thestringpuller: in terms of traffic?
asciilifeform: https://www.bitcoinezy.com << linked from 'qntra'. mis-shapen usb drive with winblows exes, mega-lol!
assbot: The Easiest Way To Buy Bitcoin | BitcoinEzy
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what happens when one of these "secure" wallets gets exploited?
thestringpuller: hardware wallets*
asciilifeform: afaik that isn't even a 'hardware wallet'
asciilifeform: at least, nothing on the vendor site seems to claim it outright
thestringpuller: oh i was thinking of bitstash
asciilifeform not familiar with above
thestringpuller: http://www.bitstash.com
assbot: BitStash
cazalla: thestringpuller, 924 views for 11 articles, my only concern with this plug in is it might be tracking BingoBoingo and my own use of the site
asciilifeform: 'Accessed via hardened bluetooth wireless using your mobile devices....' << ahahaha that one.
thestringpuller: yea so when one of these things gets hacked is it an immediate game over?
asciilifeform: the one that picks up 'radio havana' to generate keys, yes
asciilifeform: game over for whom ?
thestringpuller: the consumer
mircea_popescu: the construction "isn't limited to simply Bitcoin, but also Litecoin, Ripple and Dogecoin" is broken in that it expands to "isn't limited to X, it's limited to X Y Z and K"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller prolly.
asciilifeform: depends also if pwned by theorist in a garret somewhere, or by vendor, by design, for mass vacuuming
asciilifeform: although if remote pwnhole, can lead to same end.
asciilifeform: keys generated 'with atomospheric noise and prng' suggest latter scenario
thestringpuller: lol. sounds like a mole. "trust our wallet". vendor uses backdoor to steal all the consumer funds.
asciilifeform: not vendor per se. vendor's vendor.
asciilifeform: (his owner)
asciilifeform: but i digress.
thestringpuller: looks like nothing is as secure as a good 'ol paper wallet buried like old school treasure.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, fixed
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: old school treasure << 'the!' treasure thread >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00074068 = 15.7765 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: thanks asciilifeform, i missed that thread.
thestringpuller: modern treasure hiding. i guess in international waters you have to worry about pirates?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: hardest part, aside from constructing the hypothetical apparatus, is finding the site again without recourse to satellite.
thestringpuller: well i guess then treasure hunters shall find it in future if you bite the bullet before retrieval.
thestringpuller: not the first time that's happened I suppose...
thestringpuller: or perhaps it remains unclaimed for many lifetimes...
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: go fetch treasure from 5km+ down.
asciilifeform: in particular, while not knowing where.
thestringpuller: the titanic hid all but lost treasures for nearly a century...
asciilifeform: titanic is at ~4km, afaik - and, still there...
thestringpuller: this also intrigued me about dropping a message in a bottle down the marianas trench...
thestringpuller: but i don't think many devices could withstand the entire trip
decimation: thestringpuller: I think the engineering is feasible, but it certainly wouldn't be cheap. As ascii emphasized in that thread, this is for items worth >$100k 'hiding'
thestringpuller: i understand. my imagination likes to run wild. I was thinking of trusting a >$100k fortune in BTC to a paper wallet via treasure hiding, vs. the so-called "secure" hardware wallets
asciilifeform: 100k being a very conservative figure.
thestringpuller: but the problem asciilifeform has described makes for more effort of retrieval in the former scenario.
thestringpuller: if retrieval is at all possible in ones lifetime after stashing.
asciilifeform: trivial retrieval with hydrophone scheme (other than how to find location. learn stellar navigation.)
thestringpuller: does burying device on remote island (possibly uncharted) not work anymore?
thestringpuller: or is this method outdated.
asciilifeform: island is cheap to search.
decimation: stellar navigation is generally only as good as your time source
asciilifeform: decimation: dollar store quartz watch.
decimation: loses seconds per month, and how are you gonna set it if you can't count on 'infrastructure'?
thestringpuller: decimation: this is why it was so difficult to tell time in the sea during the old days.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's funny how a quartz watch does what a very expensive device did during the 1700's.
asciilifeform: building machines today that can be counted on 50 years from now - is a solvable problem.
thestringpuller: in regards to sea travel
asciilifeform: military engineers consider it every day.
decimation: even in those old days they could reconstruct 'time' from solar observations & so forth, just took awhile to do so
asciilifeform: not the same machines as sold to consumers/chumps, yes
asciilifeform: but buildable.
thestringpuller: well you didn't have a "torch" of time when you left the mainland...at some point watches didn't exist.
thestringpuller: you know time in relation to your current position but not in relation to the mainland.
decimation: asciilifeform: indeed, the first step for someone considering 'off-the-grid' navigation would be to find a way to keep the 'fire' of accurate time burning without external aid
thestringpuller: longitude is hard.
asciilifeform: not actually hard if you've discovered electromagnetism (electric tuning fork clock, considerably simpler than harrison's chronometer, is quite easy to construct)
thestringpuller: was electomagnetism widely discovered at the point the chronometer came about?
thestringpuller: i remember there was a large bounty for the chronometer during it's inception
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: and yes, bounty.
decimation: nope, it would take a few $1,000 in ovenized crystal oscillators and/or rubidium (rubidium clocks have a finite lifetime though)
asciilifeform: (there is an - american? - film about it.)
asciilifeform: decimation: to locate what? an ant in the sea ?)
decimation: asciilifeform: hehe well certainly one would have to calculate 'how close' one must be in order to effectively trigger release
decimation: presumably the closer one can get, the more alternative retrieval methods become feasible
thestringpuller: diving 5km is pretty bad.
asciilifeform: if capsule floats a microphone near the thermocline (naturally, by a wire too thin to be lifted by) can 'pop' from 1000+km.
asciilifeform: owner - doesn't need to dive.
asciilifeform: at all.
decimation: I saw the "H1" clock at the Greenwich observatory, it was a fancy machine
asciilifeform: enemy - yes, has to dive.
decimation: owner must dive if release fails
thestringpuller: ^
decimation: or swab the bottom somehow
asciilifeform: if release fails - he's not an owner, any more.
asciilifeform: like bitcoin.
thestringpuller: point taken.
decimation: hehe a gift to neptune
asciilifeform: what do you own if lose key.
asciilifeform: your tears.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2DD4ZYC.txt )
thestringpuller: !b 3
thestringpuller: grr I'll rebash that
assbot: Need a number of lines.
thestringpuller: !b
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00074049 = 1.444 BTC [-]
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 376.06, Best ask: 378.68, Bid-ask spread: 2.62000, Last trade: 378.68, 24 hour volume: 48239.04792239, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 395.55, 24 hour vwap: 369.705424437
decimation: it will be interesting to see if this bottom holds
asciilifeform: http://teledynebenthos.com/product/acoustic_modems/960-series-atm-966 << off the shelf.
assbot: Teledyne Benthos Acoustic Modems - 960 Series ATM-966
asciilifeform: 2-6 km range. max depth 6km.
thestringpuller: 6km is pretty deep...
decimation: asciilifeform: re: 50 year lifetime << http://globalsp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/ru_webinar_BX_advantage_30_%20nov_12.pdf 'enterprise' servers have hilarious claimed 'mtbf' (1.7 million hours!)
asciilifeform: wandering decimal place? lulz
decimation: ;;calc 1700000/(24*364.25)
gribble: 194.463509494
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 30000 @ 0.00003502 = 1.0506 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40650 @ 0.00074045 = 30.0993 BTC [-] {2}
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/the-rise-and-rise-of-piracy/
mircea_popescu: this'd be a decent idea for an oglaf strip : a retarded indian that doesn't quite grok the entire scalping business so he's going around with a string of pubic hair patches
mircea_popescu: "As he packs up his BFL units to sell, he explains to his son that he threw away his bitcoins and their future because he is stupid and ignored MPOE-PR's posts on Bitcoin Talk. Despite all of this, Dan continues to wear his Butterfly Labs t-shirt till the end of the film, as if it is a remnant, a small piece of a future he will not enjoy."
mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!
cazalla: that's my interpretation
cazalla: he shows his kid a bitcoin difficulty chart and says look at all the people mining, these bfls are shit so im selling em
thickasthieves: is that like right befror it hits $1000?
mircea_popescu: hilarious article.
cazalla: dunno, i only skipped through looking for good parts
thickasthieves: i havent even taken the time to read 1 reddit post on the movie
thickasthieves: it's repelled me from the start
cazalla: it's not good, the only thing that stood out was the guy turned from enthusiastic to gutted, you can't miss it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00074342 = 13.1585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30072 @ 0.00074371 = 22.3648 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: ;;isitup fullnode.co
gribble: Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
pete_dushenski: ;;isitdown fullnode.co
gribble: fullnode.co is down
pete_dushenski: such lulz
pete_dushenski: praise be to pankkake for calling their ass out back in june http://pankkake.headfucking.net/2014/06/27/fullnode-co-is-a-scam/
assbot: Fullnode.co is a scam | pankkake
punkman: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/
assbot: Intel Underestimates Error Bounds by 1.3 quintillion | Random ASCII
decimation: punkman: already beat you to it: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#867122 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 02:39:21; decimation: in case folks haven't seen the latest amusement with x86: http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/intel-underestimates-error-bounds-by-1-3-quintillion/
punkman: oh
punkman: more lulz from twatter https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzjxrFYCMAAw-Kh.jpg
pete_dushenski: punkman: ha! nice.
mircea_popescu: has a point.
decimation: lol mormon as a branch of methodist
mircea_popescu: seems reasonable.
mircea_popescu: where'd you put it ?
mircea_popescu: it's definitely "colorful neoprotestant"
decimation: I guess one could make an argument, given the *
pete_dushenski: decimation: they both had found the teachings of one particular man to be worth branching off for
pete_dushenski: i think i just mentioned that in a footnote recently...
pete_dushenski: http://contravex.com/2014/10/02/thank-your-lucky-trolls/#footnote_3_1436
assbot: Thank Your Lucky Trolls | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: "Methodism is like Mormonism in that it follows the life and teachings of a recently living man. Methodism follows Britain John Wesley (1703–1791) and Mormonism follows American Joseph Smith (1805–1844). Maybe you can start a branch of Christianity too!"
pete_dushenski: one right after the other.
pete_dushenski: i guess i shoulda written "maybe you can start a branch of judaism too!"
mircea_popescu: brit ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if capsule floats a microphone near the thermocline (naturally, by a wire too thin to be lifted by) can 'pop' from 1000+km. << unless someone/thing tried to lift it prior
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BziOkTiCQAAUYdl.png
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: king of the britains?
mircea_popescu: "follows Britain John Wesley " is broken
decimation: modern Methodism has degenerated into becoming fairly indistinct from the "liberal religion"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ya… it is.
mircea_popescu: generally, the proposition that you'll "go to heaven" through a certain recipe is doomed to create monsters
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/#comment-108628
assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: they're back
punkman: dat title
pete_dushenski: ;;google itulip
gribble: iTulip.com - The Contrary Market View - For Independent Financial ...: <http://www.itulip.com/>; Forum Actions - iTulip.com: <http://www.itulip.com/forums/>; 2013 Review and 2014 Forecast - Part I: The Last Bubble - Eric ...: <http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php/26677-2013-Review-and-2014-Forecast-Part-I-The-Last-Bubble-Eric-Janszen>
mircea_popescu: "iTulip.com Ad Policy As of March 31, 2006, you well see Goggle AdSense ads on iTulip.com."
decimation: lol dogecoin volume has suddenly doubled on cryptsy the past few weeks
mircea_popescu: shit assets don't simply die
mircea_popescu: they go to the pink sheets, to live as one of a few well specified chumpatron models
punkman: hah https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By_p21oCcAARuyp.jpg
mircea_popescu: can you translate ?
punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_didn%27t_you_invest_in_Eastern_Poland%3F
assbot: Why didn't you invest in Eastern Poland? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00074523 = 12.5199 BTC [+]
punkman: ah somethingawful already did it http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2013/phriday/poland/zombieswithblenders_01.png http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2013/phriday/poland/Entenzahn_01.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28828 @ 0.00074523 = 21.4835 BTC [+]
thickasthieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/cl5hng3
assbot: naspo comments on WARNING: Bitcoin Address Blacklists have been forced into the Gentoo Linux bitcoind distribution by Luke-jr against the will of other core devs. Gentoo maintainers are clueless and not reversing the change. Boycott Gentoo now.
thickasthieves: i know bingo mentioned it used luke's patches, but i didnt know the patches has blacklists
thickasthieves: bliacklists...
bounce: uh. yay, let's make bitcoin more like paypal and visa/mastercard, and arbitrarily shut out parties you don't like
RagnarDanneskjol: speaking of: 01:00 <#bitcoin-dev> petertoddgwillen: haha, yeah they do - mircea popescu had me buy him SomethingAwful passes with my credit card a few times so he could troll there
mircea_popescu: not like it actually does anything. bout as retarded as bayesian spam filtering.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol it's in the logs.
RagnarDanneskjol: ahh
thickasthieves: i can appreciate luke-jr excercising his own voting/filtering rights though
thickasthieves: patching it into defaults is pretty lame
bounce: it's a curious discussion. he gets to patch the gentoo bitcoind because he's a core dev? why isn't that patch in mainline then?
assbot: luke-jr +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
thickasthieves: !up luke-jr
Luke-Jr: it's not appropriate for mainline; I'd reject it myself
thickasthieves: this turned into a whole fud in the trader chat, theyre all FINCEN WANTZ BLACKLISTSZ!
mircea_popescu: gentoo decided they'll let bitcoin in there as a luke thing.
mircea_popescu: hardly a reason to "boycott gentoo"
bounce: so what makes it appropriate for gentoo?
mircea_popescu: in fact, anyone with the werewithal to boycott as much as a donut stand can just as well patch out whatever.
thickasthieves: i'm like dude, look at the list
Luke-Jr: bounce: it's better than nothing, until we have a better spam filter implementation
bounce: uhm. no.
Luke-Jr: also, in Gentoo, it's optional
Luke-Jr: because we can just apply the patch or not
bounce: turns out it ended up as the default option, so that's one argument down the drain.
mircea_popescu: as per usual, reddit makes a mess of things. they're like ten year olds, those people. "o did you hear sugar kills ? sure, it killed sam's dog!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00074256 = 33.7865 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: cue memes of an antropomorphic sugar cube with chainsaw
Luke-Jr: bounce: still an option
Luke-Jr: it *should* be default, since it's better
thickasthieves: ok how many people using the bitcoin wallet in gentoo would blindly use this default
thickasthieves: 7?
Luke-Jr: I don't have that exact number.
thickasthieves: we'll say 7 then
bounce: then that's still no argument. also you're not answering the question.
mircea_popescu: it looks eerily accurate
Luke-Jr: bounce: it's appropriate for everyone, just not every*thing*
thickasthieves: uhh
thickasthieves: which people are things?
Luke-Jr: bounce: and we wouldn't want to *force* it on anyone
Luke-Jr: thickasthieves: the reference code is a thing
bounce: this makes no sense
thickasthieves: the default in gentoo is a thing
mircea_popescu: look, it's really simple. gentoo doesn't give a shit about bitcoin, it's yet another crackpot app as far as they're concerned. at some internal review it was determined it's much too buggy to be in main, and so it got put wherever they put retarded shit, and put someone in charge of it, in this case luke. the someone in charge is doing weird shit to it, as you'd expect of someone in charge of a buggy piece of shit not
mircea_popescu: in main, whether it be luke or not.
mircea_popescu: none of this is remarkable, but in fact functioning as intended.
Luke-Jr: thickasthieves: the default in gentoo is for highly technical users to judge; the reference code is for developers to read
thickasthieves: basically, it's his domain until it isnt
bounce: well, at least someone thought up a nice logo for bitcoind-ljr.
mircea_popescu: if you're the sort of gentoo/linux/foss user that downloads and runs buggy pieces of shit, you're expected to either a) be conversant in code and fix em or else b) not run production.
thickasthieves: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/did-todays-satan-signal-sp-futures-give-all-clear-selling-begin
mircea_popescu: orly ?
mircea_popescu: lmao. dude... anyone can do that. including the derp writing the report.
thickasthieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 32873538172.4 based on data since last change | 34777196895.2 based on data for last three days
mircea_popescu: btw BingoBoingo http://www.majesticseo.com/charts/backlinks-discovery-chart/qntra.com?w=677&h=200&IndexDataSource=F
mircea_popescu: http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/bd5b619c6a586ec6d7078a5480ab241f73d58310f672d53d573aa45bb850c818-1G3pUAfJhsdZU8MYYnHxD1gW1bYpoRaDL3.txt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28697 @ 0.0007432 = 21.3276 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so it turns out deedbot got haxed.
mircea_popescu: ;;rated molokodesk
gribble: You rated user molokodesk on Tue Sep 30 07:54:20 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: b-a deedsbot dev. AAA would hire again..
mircea_popescu: ;;rate molokodesk -1 meh.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user molokodesk has changed from 2 to -1.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's the .com, the parking lot control company
mircea_popescu: a right you are. http://www.majesticseo.com/charts/backlinks-discovery-chart/qntra.net?w=677&h=200&IndexDataSource=F << looks much better
mircea_popescu: !up gud
mircea_popescu: !up gustaf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00074421 = 17.6378 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up disident
disident: hi huys
RagnarDanneskjol: hiya dis
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell thestringpuller New high, 924 views over 459 persons per Wordpress stats
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Apocalyptic: %d
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 315045.65 in 353 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -83.23
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56214 @ 0.0007468 = 41.9806 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: wp stats are junk rly
BingoBoingo: Yeah, but until the quantcast is fed...
BingoBoingo: I'll be back in a few hours
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15671 @ 0.00074875 = 11.7337 BTC [+]
thickasthieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2iuf4s/lukejrs_public_apology_for_poor_gentoo_packaging/
assbot: Luke-Jr's public apology for poor Gentoo packaging default : Bitcoin
thickasthieves: ta-da!
bounce: well, that's something. IMO a blacklist on actors in the system is still entirely the wrong thing to even have. if you want to filter "abusive" txes you'd have to have some objective measure and preferrably a deterministic detection algorithm of abusiveness.
thickasthieves: http://www.coindesk.com/digital-asset-liquidity-exchange-melotic-closes-1-175-million-seed-round/ "curated digital assets"
assbot: Digital Asset Liquidity Provider Melotic Closes $1.175 Million Seed Round
RagnarDanneskjol: oh lord
bounce: why does one need a million to start an exchange?
thickasthieves: cuz you want your devs to stay for more than 10min?
thickasthieves: $1m aint much for an exchange
thickasthieves: it's a lot for a Bitfunder, sure
RagnarDanneskjol: but its Curated!
thickasthieves: curated is like saying they take responsibility for 3rd part listings, but not
thickasthieves: party*
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13479 @ 0.00074436 = 10.0332 BTC [-]
RagnarDanneskjol: ha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35324 @ 0.00074432 = 26.2924 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. < O_o
RagnarDanneskjol: yea good times. punkman says he's making progress on a pyth version
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5640 @ 0.00074116 = 4.1801 BTC [-]
xanthyos
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/ Odds: 76(Y):24(N) by coin, 74(Y):26(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.05 BTC. Current weight: 66,414.
asciilifeform: re: gentoo & ljr: i'd like to suggest a new patch to the latest bitcoind. if the day of the month is odd, format hdd.
asciilifeform: when read the news, had the idea that ljr was trying to accomplish something like the above.
asciilifeform: (put a bullet through a long-overdue zombie)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40614 @ 0.00074025 = 30.0645 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00074172 = 28.2224 BTC [+]
wywialm: hi all
mike_c: I feel a little dirty. I'm getting more traffic from google now because I have a page for every bitbet. oops.
kakobrekla: gah mike same here!
thickasthieves: you can always be together at least
mike_c: if we were cool enough it would just be one infintiely scrolling page.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << deets?
thickasthieves: market's bleedin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00074442 = 19.1316 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 2.71397168 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 236 satoshi per share
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 354.97, Best ask: 355.76, Bid-ask spread: 0.79000, Last trade: 354.97, 24 hour volume: 35089.03268405, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 390.0, 24 hour vwap: 369.022564073
mike_c: he meant the play exchanges (nasdaq)
thickasthieves: meant wall st, btc will probly rebound soon
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.11149742 BTC to 15`474 shares, 7183 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 130 @ 0.01391002 = 1.8083 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: i'm trying the taleb approach to noise reduction
thickasthieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 38036136893.6 based on data since last change | 34836558052.4 based on data for last three days
thickasthieves: youre gonna tweet out of phase noise all day?
ben_vulpes: haw
ben_vulpes: no, i'm just trying to not watch the markets.
ben_vulpes: "don't denominate the btc in usd, and vice versa"
thickasthieves: pretty thick nerdy joke though, tyvm
ben_vulpes: ya i was surprised ;)
thickasthieves: insultplement
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24495 @ 0.00074172 = 18.1684 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
thickasthieves: ;;8ball will btc ever see $350 again?
gribble: The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.
thickasthieves: pro ta
asciilifeform: afaik nobody actually cares how many pictures of ben franklin one can get for 1 btc. but if 1 btc buys, say, computer, or tractor, or half a year of food, etc.
thickasthieves: the curve would drop off at a point, right?
thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world
thestringpuller: what is this luke-jr thing going on?
thickasthieves: the logs sum it up
thestringpuller: flipping back
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00074122 = 10.6736 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: ah not so bad.
thestringpuller: glad it was caught tho
penguirker: New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/10/10/guide-to-setting-up-a-remote-bitcoin-node-for-20-per-year/
pete_dushenski: so i riffed off pankkake's node tutorial and inserted a few more instructions
pete_dushenski: i also managed to sort out the errors i was encountering in debian.
pete_dushenski: such skillz!
thestringpuller: https://i.imgur.com/ZnxT1kG.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32872 @ 0.00073946 = 24.3075 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: there are now less than 7000 active nodes :(
The20YearIRCloud: What's luke-jr do?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << preventing this was only $1200/mo indefinitely ;)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not even, different pentester.
pete_dushenski: o hm.
Apocalyptic: <pete_dushenski> there are now less than 7000 active nodes :( // I don't know where you're getting your data from, but if it's solely based on https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/ it's wrong
assbot: Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes
asciilifeform: so back to telegraph ?
Apocalyptic: as these only publish publicly reachable nodes
asciilifeform: go hax telegraph.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you really should know better than taking bitcoin "foundation" shit at face value yo.
pete_dushenski: Apocalyptic: aic
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: how did i do that?
asciilifeform read the published script, sees nothing to verify installation of particular known-hygienic classical ver. of bitcoind
mircea_popescu: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/static/img/bitcoin-foundation.png
mircea_popescu: right under "this project is powered by"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: this i know! any suggestions for how to remedy this??
mircea_popescu: nothing good short of running some decent nodes
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: and where might i find the scripts for this?
mircea_popescu: for running a node you mean ?
pete_dushenski: 0.9.3 is obviously dirt but how would one go about installing 0.6.x on a vps?
pete_dushenski: ya
mircea_popescu: well you get the code off the repository and compile it
mircea_popescu: or if you trust anyone, you get a binary from them
pete_dushenski: the instructions in my "guide" definitely need improvement. currently point people towards latest bitcoind
pete_dushenski: as per pankkake's script
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: generally the people involved in bitcoin to this level kinda have the history, and a complete file of historical versions and so on.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's an interesting question, "what's the new guy to do". bunch of playing catchup it seems
thestringpuller: how did deedbot get hacked?
asciilifeform: n00b, as in any serious business, must apprentice to another.
pete_dushenski now accepting offers for binary of bitcoind 0.6.x for contravex guide.
asciilifeform: or make good friends with the nuts and bolts alone, for ages.
mircea_popescu: but actually his is a legitimate request. i guess im adding this to the "wanted maintainer for eulora binaries" thing : wanted maintainer for bitcoin binaries.
mircea_popescu: anyone want to do a bunch of compiling and sign stuff ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ketchup is fine. just have to have a little direction :)
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron or maybe bingoboingo?
asciilifeform: did somebody once put up a bounty for ms-dos build of bitcoind ('slip/ppp' over rs232 for netpipe, presumably) ? or did i dream this
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pankkake hey listen, how much would you want to compile and sign a bunch of code ? specifically eulora codebase and proper bitcoind (.6-.7 versions) ? gentoo and whatever else you can stomach.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they did i don't recall it
asciilifeform: must have been dream.
mircea_popescu: tbh the msdos stack bug carnival + bitcoin bug carnival would be one sad hell.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] [PAID] 1.75950926 BTC to 29`438 shares, 5977 satoshi per share
pete_dushenski: following footnote added to "the node guide": Disclaimer! This Guide sets up the latest version of bitcoind, which is obviously a piece of fucking Bitcoin Fundation shit on a stick. This Guide will be updated with instructions on setting up bitcoind 0.6-0.7 asap.
bounce: dos can talk ethernet, see "crynwr" packet drivers for one.
mircea_popescu: bounce does it talk internet well tho ?
thestringpuller: ;;seen nubbins`
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 0 hours, 12 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <nubbins`> ;o
bounce: noooo, not really. it's dos.
mircea_popescu: kinda my point. bitcoind makes a bunch of assumptions about what it can do to the internet
asciilifeform: dos can talk ethernet << you want something as hardware nonspecific as possible.
asciilifeform: hence rs232.
mircea_popescu: wasn't exactly "designed from the ground up with portability in mind"
thestringpuller: bitcoin is rather portable tho
thestringpuller: as opposed to say a video game...
mircea_popescu: a qt based video game ? no.
asciilifeform: if seriously considering this, note that you will need a number of nontrivial bolt-ons - ability to mount >2gb file system, for one thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what sonny, you're too good for volume swaps ?
mircea_popescu: INSERT NEXT DISK AND PRESS OK
asciilifeform: (easiest solution: forget file system in the 1st place, just use raw block device. and then you don't even need msdos for anything.)
mircea_popescu: you do, yes, inasmuch as afaik it's compiled on 16 bit with a bunch of strange as what's maxint. won't even be able to reference half the arrays becayse they smash various stacks
asciilifeform: communicate with net through slip, via one serial line; accept commands & return output through another; deal with key material through a third.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who said anything about 16bit. dos4gw!
mircea_popescu: well if that's how you're going to go about it, how about running deathtrack in an emulator while linux handles bitcoin and call it a msdos bitcoind ?
mircea_popescu: but dos4gw is NOT ms-dos is it.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: hence idea, just dispense with the msdos
asciilifeform: and run on metal.
mircea_popescu: "my solution for fixing this guy's liver is to dispense with the guy"
asciilifeform: they shoot horses don't they (tm)
mircea_popescu: "the liver is fine, it's all that other shit sround it"
bounce: "something as hardware nonspecific as possible" meaning the shittiest and slowest option you can think of is a bit of a non-argument really.
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html
assbot: Return Infinity - Pure64
mircea_popescu: bounce i think stan's a bit of a masochist rly.
asciilifeform: (i have my own very similar widget, that i've used for 'number crunching' tasks where an os just wastes cycles)
bounce: you'd need a tcp/ip stack linked to your program meaning that as soon as it quits the box is off the 'net, but whatever it's configured to use it'll use.
asciilifeform: people act as if tcp/ip were a moon rocket
asciilifeform: that no one man could ever hope to repeat with own hands.
mircea_popescu: but it is. and you can repeat with own hands, as a model
mircea_popescu: not as an actual moon rocket.
bounce: oh, you can implement a tcp/ip stack, apparently not too much work. making it work well, especially tcp, is going to be a bit more work though.
mircea_popescu: making it take off and become what EVERYONE uses is going to be a lot more work than that.
bounce: no idea how many man-hours or how it compares to, say, implementing a new compiler for some nicely convoluted language.
mircea_popescu: lisp never managed, for instance. neither did python. etc.
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, a shame the website thought it would be a good idea to use javascript popups as links
asciilifeform: lol i never see popups
Apocalyptic: neither do I
Apocalyptic: I just see links like "javascript:popCentered('pure64-manual.html',%20'900',%20'450',%20'manual');" and makes me sad
mircea_popescu: bounce not nearly as hard as a compiler, if you mean a tight optimizing compiler. otherwise, rms has been writing compilers in a day and a half on emacs.
asciilifeform: for all i know, it formats your hdd if you're running win98
mircea_popescu: they suck, but hey.
asciilifeform: or the like.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic the notion of javascript:pop makes me sad.
mircea_popescu: did they implement javascript:sendushatemail(); ?
asciilifeform: anyway the link is because that fellow's site is the only place where you find everything you need to initialize an x86-64 all in one place.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol i read "send-dush-hate-mail"
mircea_popescu: ate mail lol
asciilifeform: last version i read, disk i/o was implemented via 'pio' vs dma, so not optimal. but ought to suffice for just about any practical use.
pete_dushenski: with cheez.
asciilifeform: 'send u shate mail'
asciilifeform: ('shate' - past tense of 'shit' in world where shitting and eating are closely linked semantically more so than for us? as in 'ate')
mircea_popescu: in english it's actually shit shat shat
asciilifeform: aye
asciilifeform: english loses.
mircea_popescu: eat ate ate is reasonably related.
pete_dushenski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/09/we_have_more_to_learn_says_scientist_antarctic_sea_ice_at_all_time_record/
assbot: Antarctic ice at ALL TIME RECORD HIGH: We have more to learn, says boffin The Register
pete_dushenski: those poor, cute penguins!
The20YearIRCloud: RentalStarter dividend announced - 0.00003100 per share
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski oh, that's how you say "we fucked up royally and lost any possible shred of crediblity" in government-scientistalese now ? "we have more to learn" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally it's 'more studies needed'
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why it's unwise for people aspiring to science to get involved in politics.
asciilifeform: (in usa)
mircea_popescu: if you support policy with your "findings" you ruin your career once those findings turn out to be not truth, but mere science.
mircea_popescu: because no, no study produced by ANY PERSON who ever produced a "global warming" piece of "research" can ever be used for any scientific purpose whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: they're dead, for that profession.
bounce: more of a problem with politics' unhealthy relationship with science-as-convenient-truth than a problem in science. though science has its share of problems.
mircea_popescu: bounce not a problem of science, of course, but a problem of scientists, actual and aspiring.
asciilifeform: if only it were just that one field, that was lysenkoized.
mircea_popescu: for instance, about 98% of english speaking people involved in earth studies just rendered themselves
asciilifeform: !up devthedev
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform matters not. the lord doesn't aim to kill sin, merely as many sinners as can get hands on.
devthedev: You're right mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: why ty.
mircea_popescu: !up disident
mircea_popescu: get in the wot will you.
asciilifeform: http://www.vaikan.com/man-vs-machine << mega-lol. chicom lifted the ancient turd.
assbot: | IT
pete_dushenski: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2014/10/09/we_have_more_to_learn_says_scientist_antarctic_sea_ice_at_all_time_record/#c_2323490
assbot: Antarctic ice at ALL TIME RECORD HIGH: We have more to learn, says boffin The Register Forums
pete_dushenski: "The Earth hasn't warmed for > 18 years and counting. CO2 meanwhile continues to increase. Ergo. No connection between CO2 and global temperature. CAGW is false."
devthedev: Yeah, I'm not pro climate change
mircea_popescu: am i the only one who is amused by the strict similarity between the "o we know how climate works ; listen to us to fix what's broken with earth's industry" of these muppets and the "o, we know how hardware will work in the future ; listen ot us to fix what's broken with bitcoin" of the BF sponsored muppets ?
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/2ismvu/a_moment_of_silence_please/cl5cedf
assbot: truthermn2 comments on A moment of silence please...
mircea_popescu: it seems the exact same sort of entirely broken, pseudoscientific, narcissistic gung-ho idiocy
bounce: the google translation contains a typical english grammar error (it's instead of its). how chinesely interesting.
mike_c: ;;seen diana_coman
gribble: diana_coman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <diana_coman> I'm to blame for Sweete__ being here, since he pm-ed me about trading and I asked him why wasn't he in here if he was a trader
devthedev: Bitcoin.org - Website contains prohibited File Sharing content.
mircea_popescu: lolwut ?!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's exactly that parallel: both teams of tards belong to a religion sans eglise
mircea_popescu: then zeke is all "o, not possible to be stooges". duh. what else are they ?
devthedev: mircea_popescu: It's on the school's blacklist.
mircea_popescu: convenient idiots ? tyvm, it's exactly anderpopolous' line. "i'm not really shilling, i'm just stupid. buy my shit!"
thestringpuller: I can't write software so I wrote a book!
asciilifeform: as i understand, a genuine 'useful idiot' by definition has to act unwittingly
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, like Karpeles and the like
asciilifeform: otherwise he's just 'useful' (while possibly also, 'idiot')
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's such bs. you know how the soviets worked, right ? all the scum reporting to the nkvd "had to", right ?
mircea_popescu: they weren't really aware what it is they're doing, right ?
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: those aren't 'useful idiots' thought
mircea_popescu: half of leningrad died in one night because a bunch of people "weren't really doing" what they were doing.
asciilifeform: those are 'useful'
mircea_popescu: laissez svp.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581041 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver
mircea_popescu: the female ability to reclassify rape as consensual and consensual as rape and to negotiate her own presence in the circumstances of her being does exactly jack shit for any discussion of reality.
mircea_popescu: which is why business has the concept of "knew or should have known". cuz it makes exactly no difference whether he "actually" knew.
asciilifeform: for purposes of chumpatronic engineering, it does indeed matter whether the chump needs a leash, coaxing, or mere suggestion to jump into the hopper.
mircea_popescu: these aren't distinguishable in the field. the nominal distinction follows mood or at best tradition.
mircea_popescu: objective difference there isn't.
asciilifeform: makes a difference what part of his hindbrain you pwned to get him to walk the plank
asciilifeform: e.g., lust, sloth, avarice
pete_dushenski: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/releases << 0.6-0.7 zip and tar files are here, just unsure how to modify pankkake's node.sh script with them…
assbot: Releases bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these are also not pure categories in nature. their distinction follows tradition
asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: but engineer must live with brute abstractions at times.
mircea_popescu: no argument, but let's not forget they aren't in the world.
asciilifeform: 'map is not territory, but the territory does not fit in your glove compartment.'
mircea_popescu: quite.
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2iud0a/bitcoin_history_the_bearwhale_of_2012/
assbot: Bitcoin history: The BearWhale of 2012 : Bitcoin
asciilifeform: !s bot rape
assbot: 7 results for 'bot rape' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bot+rape
asciilifeform: ^ obligatory
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00074021 = 5.5886 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15914 @ 0.00073941 = 11.767 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/10/ebola-and-five-stages-of-collapse.html << phun
assbot: ClubOrlov: Ebola and the Five Stages of Collapse
mircea_popescu: the problem with drinking the coolaid and starting to perceive yourself as "of a field" is that you end up with this obligatory slag.
mircea_popescu: "o, x is in the news , i gotta write about it then1"
mircea_popescu: soon enough all the forced writing kills your spark and then you're dead.
thestringpuller: ;;calc 2000000 / 11
gribble: 181818.181818
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00073931 = 18.4828 BTC [-] {4}
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: yup, no spark, no life.
pete_dushenski: and with that, ima check y'all later!
mircea_popescu: it's one thing doing news pieces because that's the news. but people writing blogs aren't doing newspieces, they're doing editorial, and the news burnout is a century old, well known and documented mode of failure for editors.
bounce: feeding random bits to that vaikan thingy makes me lose 2:1. seems that giving the thing a pass option gives it an unfair advantage.
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.03, Best ask: 357.19, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 356.03, 24 hour volume: 31630.34152670, 24 hour low: 349.0, 24 hour high: 380.94, 24 hour vwap: 364.911597788
asciilifeform never met an apocalyptic hypothetical megadeath that herr orlov doesn't love.
thickasthieves: https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/520555627715002368
assbot: Important step towards separating our bitcoin biz from /SecondMarket. The name.Introducing...Digital Currency Group http://t.co/s4Hld235bP
thickasthieves: "Invest. Build. Grow."
thickasthieves: Digital Currency Group
mike_c: the name is hardly enough barry. where's the logo?
bounce: anthropomorphic sugarcubes! with chainsaws!
bounce: oh wait, that's for something else. n'mind.
thickasthieves: http://www.trademarkia.com/digital-currency-group-86316071.html he went with mpex style logo
assbot: DIGITAL CURRENCY GROUP - Reviews & Brand Information - SECONDMARKET HOLDINGS, INC. New York, NY - Serial Number: 86316071
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (put a bullet through a long-overdue zombie) << zombie being what, people running gentoo through an emulator on windows ?
mircea_popescu: !up princessnell
mircea_popescu: heh wrong one
mircea_popescu: !up princessnell_
princessnell_: ty
princessnell_: i have a transcript of the andreas testimony
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> so it turns out deedbot got haxed. << deets? << someone put a random deed up there, i linked it above the comment.
mircea_popescu: princessnell_ the one he published or the one he acutally gave ?
princessnell_: the whole thing: his opening statements and Q&A
mircea_popescu: cool. summarize, comment and submit.
mircea_popescu: add the full minutes as an add-on file to be linked from your article for the perennially curious
mike_c: i linked it above the comment. << that link 404'd for me.
mircea_popescu: mike_c well i guess it got deleted meanwhile. it just said "owned like a pony" or something
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world <<< this is actually one of the largest, most interesting questions in bitcoin finance.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't have a good answer. on one hand, fiat currency can never meet the total asset value, for very well understood reasons.
mircea_popescu: superficially, if one thinks btc is a drop-in replacement for fiat (which it isn't, just like car isn't exactly a drop in replacement for tricycle) one'd expect the same to hold
mircea_popescu: however, because bitcoin will be hoarded in general and transacted rarely, it is quite possible for there to appear a new macroeconomics equation :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60598 @ 0.00073906 = 44.7856 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: (hoarded btc) + traded btc = traded property + (hoarded property)
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps going to be the one thing economists of the future will be trying to keep in balance.
BingoBoingo: http://deadspin.com/mma-fighter-live-tweets-police-standoff-while-holed-up-1644489745
assbot: MMA Fighter Live-Tweets Police Standoff While Holed Up In House
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell wywialm there's one for you : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-10-2014#867881 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 18:21:00; mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: i suppose it's possible for bitcoin to be worth more than all the transactable equity in the world <<< this is actually one of the largest, most interesting questions in bitcoin finance.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bounce: ``Patrick Murck of the Bitcoin Foundation stated that "the people that do this stuff should burn in hell" and they are working to stop Bitcoin from being used for illicit activity.'' -- clowns be clownin'
mircea_popescu: lol what's he going to say.
mircea_popescu: "fuck you and get used to making the laws you can enforce as opposed to making the laws your delusions require" ?
mircea_popescu: not his line.
bounce: "not condone" yadda yadda would've been plenty
mircea_popescu: amusingly, bitcoin is working fro mstopping murck &co's illicit activities.
mircea_popescu: not particularly curious as to how that confrontation's gonna end out. seen too many tards try to spit up.
bounce: oh it's not really a surprise, but his is supposedly a PR club, not a policing club. not smart to get mired in that swamp.
mircea_popescu: since when did the us agents do the smart thing ?
mircea_popescu: they've already won the war on drugs, the war on poverty and the war on terrorism.
mircea_popescu: fourth's a charm.
bounce: oh yes ticker tape parades any day now
mircea_popescu: o which reminds me, did the doom zerohedge announced as a given manifest in the fx markets yet ?
mircea_popescu: that site's so funny, it's been declaring the world ends tomorrow so convincingly and for so long by now its only audience are people who actually factually believe the world ends tomorrow, each and every day. so there's this palpable atmosphere of
mircea_popescu: "nigga please, the world ? it's so ended already!"
mats_cd03: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17490282/why-is-this-commit-that-sets-the-rsa-public-exponent-to-1-problematic
assbot: security - Why is this commit that sets the RSA public exponent to 1 problematic? - Stack Overflow
mats_cd03: interesting to me, since i know about zero things re: rsa.
bounce: it's been ages but an exponent of one isn't a great idea, no. they shipped with that? oops. (could see it as another reason why you don't implement crypto yourself; you use a well-vetted library, as in written by cryptographers and then read by other cryptographers)
mircea_popescu: bounce except this would meet the definition of "well vetted" as commonly deployed.
mircea_popescu: you are in fact better off using homebrew than "well vetted", inasmuch as the western world is in denial about exactly what "well vetted" means as well as what "working towards stopping use for illicit activity" means
thestringpuller: remember that point you brought up about someone reading a newspaper article about a field they are well versed in. That person says, "Wow holes everywhere" etc. Then he moves to article from field he is less familiar with and just agrees with it?
thestringpuller: I think this was you mircea_popescu no?
mircea_popescu: so no, i'd trust anything nist/ieee/etc certified a lot less than i'd trust random shit.
mats_cd03: its all relative, i suppose.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller possibly i brought it up here, but otherwise it's old scool.
thestringpuller: so if this is the case how is the n00b to even decide?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 you know how if you install wordpress you're supposed to change the pre-generated salt to something ?
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/second-market-spins-off-digital-currency-group/
mircea_popescu: in cryptography, every constant's a salt. you're well advised to change ALL constants
mats_cd03: i don't know anything about the web
mircea_popescu: if the code stops working you shouldn't have been using it in the first place
mircea_popescu: mp best practices of crypto, volume I (r)
mats_cd03: i think i might see schneier again sometime in the near future
mats_cd03: have any questions you want answered?
mircea_popescu: what/how much they paid him, but he won't answer that one.
mats_cd03: besides, you know, 'whats your handler's name'
mats_cd03: oh, you beat me to it.
rithm: what's the meaning of life other than 42?
mircea_popescu: his handler's name is not as hard to infer.
mircea_popescu: there's not that many handlers, they drive cars, they have wives, it's a solved problem.
thestringpuller: in the future we will have nanomachines that prevent us from physically disclosing our handler. that will be a scary time.
bounce: uhm. looks like I forgot to take notes last time I had beef with some of what he was saying and forgot to keep up in the meantime. oh well.
chetty: <thestringpuller> in the future we will have nanomachines that prevent us from physically disclosing our handler. that will be a scary time.//pls tell me at least a day ahead of this
mircea_popescu: bounce this is why keeping a blog is so important
mircea_popescu: i'd lose 90% of my shit if i didn't write it down
bounce: oh I have my notes, just didn't jot that one down
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: like that time the eulora gameplay post was almsot lost forever?
thestringpuller: ;)
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
mats_cd03: https://soundcloud.com/matoma-official/eminem-business-matoma-remix
assbot: SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
mats_cd03: from an old issue, titled 'once upon a free()' http://phrack.org/issues/57/9.html
assbot: .:: Phrack Magazine ::.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski You know there's another guide. Paid for rather than wrote this one. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/05/02/building-bitcoin-0-7-2-on-openbsd/
assbot: Building Bitcoin 0.7.2 on OpenBSD | Bingo Blog
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/10/poor-punctuation-leads-to-windows-shell-vulnerability/
assbot: Poor punctuation leads to Windows shell vulnerability | Ars Technica
bounce: those wily belgians trying to make a name for themselves in time-honoured fashion: "sound scary? read on!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.0007402 = 9.2525 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17064 @ 0.00074021 = 12.6309 BTC [+]
rithm: oh yeah i read about ^ earlier
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.0007402 = 12.5094 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/10/hospitalist-2/
assbot: Hospitalist Abusing Copy and Paste...In Paper Charts - Medical Satire - GomerBlog
BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/10/pet-therapy/ << “Adults are bigger and furrier than kids, so it was simple,” explained Westchester Medical Center CEO James Piccadilly. “Bears are bigger and furrier than dogs.”
assbot: Hospital Pilots Pet Therapy with Black Bears, Grizzlies - Medical Satire - GomerBlog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.0007402 = 4.9964 BTC [-]
devthedev: Digital Currency Group, interesting.
mike_c: it's like secondmarket, but different.
mats_cd03: https://casetext.com/case/kennar-v-kelly-2 << heh. sued the IRS for RICO violations
mats_cd03: quite clever IMO, but no dice. sovereign immunity.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30820 @ 0.00074209 = 22.8712 BTC [+] {2}
The20YearIRCloud: Well, we closed on property #10 today
The20YearIRCloud: Once we're at 100% occupancy we'll be almost right at $10k/mo in revenues
mike_c: decent profit margins?
kakobrekla: great dividend roi
kakobrekla: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00458100 / 0.00472061 / 0.00489499 (9 shares, 0.04248546 BTC), 7D: 0.00400000 / 0.00424006 / 0.00529752 (1978 shares, 8.38684071 BTC), 30D: 0.00383331 / 0.00644294 / 0.00750000 (13985 shares, 90.10447998 BTC)
kakobrekla: seems to be stuck to 0.45 no matter what btc or you do or is it just me
kakobrekla: 0.0045 even
The20YearIRCloud: 70% mike_c
The20YearIRCloud: Although that's gonna go down as we lever, but as of property #10, our costs are a little under 30% of revenues
kakobrekla: (im just thinking re your idea of being a hedge)
mike_c: kakobrekla: yeah for last 5 months.
The20YearIRCloud: kakobrekla: you're right, and i've been buying about as much as I can
The20YearIRCloud: The property I just got is a smoking deal. $30k purchase, about $2k in rehab if that, will bring in $1050/mo rented with about $300/mo in costs (Taxes, insurance, repairs)
kakobrekla: id call fire department on smoking property
kakobrekla: quick
The20YearIRCloud: lol
cazalla: ;;later tell princessnell just missed you, was sleeping
gribble: The operation succeeded.
devthedev: Good evening everyone
cazalla: morning
devthedev: Hey cazalla
danielpbarron used BingoBoingo's instructions to compile bitcoind 0.7.2 on OpenBSD 5.5
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Well the ones I asked some Indian kid to do for money and then diginork beat him to the prize when he no-show'd
danielpbarron: i have instructions on compiling ssss-0.5 on OpenBSD 5.5 if anyone is interested
bounce: submit it as a port?
danielpbarron: ;;rated gilgameshugga
gribble: You rated user gilgameshugga on Sat Jul 19 13:35:03 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: figured out how to compile ssss-0.5 on openBSD5.5 for a 0.1 BTC bounty http://danielpbarron.com/ssss/openBSD5.5.asc.txt.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell princessnell cazalla !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
cazalla: she sent an email so it's all good
mircea_popescu: a cool
mircea_popescu: <mats_cd03> quite clever IMO, but no dice. sovereign immunity. << exactly.
mircea_popescu: now if only someone made a site that wasn';t a retarded ball of javascript
mircea_popescu: what is with these people, seriously.
kakobrekla: who?
mircea_popescu: google has this "document" format that's basically just a bunch of spurious javascript
mircea_popescu: then everyone copied it. casetext.com in this exampole
mircea_popescu: but there's a bunch of them. the retarded crowd that does videos instead of articles tends to send links to them instead of plain text.
bounce: "REST" is all the rage these days, and is obviously a fine and good excuse to push off all the processing into the client (and thereby reinventing just about everything, badly), instead of, oh, having the server process all that or just serving up the content right away.
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/liberty-reserve-founder-arthur-budovsk-extradited/
mircea_popescu: fuck them with a used toilet brush
mircea_popescu: and fuck whoever came up with the soap-rest false dichotomy, too.
bounce: ah, of course it's extra-doubly-criminal if you are a /former/ american doing all that outside of the US
mircea_popescu: huh ?
bounce: ``The founder of Liberty Reserve, a virtual currency used by cybercriminals around the world to launder proceeds of their illegal activity, was extradited from Spain and arrived in the United States this afternoon.'' -- so, uhm, why aren't they even investigating the current owners and propagators of that much more widely currency used by criminals, "cyber" and otherwise, world-wide?
mircea_popescu: because this guy passed his things off as dollars
mircea_popescu: something anyone with any sense could have told him will never float unless he also has an army.
bounce: did he? oh dear.
mircea_popescu: yeah, he did
mircea_popescu: and it was pretty derpy/insane to boot. i mean literally, going by shops, telling random people that hey, this is as much a dollar as that.
BingoBoingo: As far as I understand it Liberty Reserve was basically just Dollar Hawala, except derpier
mircea_popescu: well no, it was Bollar, like Bucci
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/andreas-antonopolous-testifies-before-canadian-senate-committee/
mircea_popescu: cazalla dude this chick can write. let it not be said all qntra articles are short ever again lol
cazalla: i know eh
bounce: though even if he'd shouted high and low it was something else entirely that just happened to carry the exact same unit value as a us dollar they'd still hang him on the nearest tree of accusations. they're like that. any old excuse will do.
mircea_popescu: "SENATOR GERSTEIN (1:50:40) Mr. Antonopolous, your reputation preceded you prior to your arrival. You may recall that in my introductory remarks, I did not introduce you as a Bitcoin guru, but as THE Bitcoin guru. I think that I could speak on behalf of all of the members of the committee in saying that you have more than lived up to that reputation. We greatly appreciate your presentation today. Thank you very much, t
mircea_popescu: his meeting is concluded."
mircea_popescu: this should be in the record.
mircea_popescu: gerstein addressing known shill, scammer and general clueless derp : "you're just like us! we love you here!"
bounce: birds of a feather
mircea_popescu: bounce looky, counterfactuals aren't factuals.
mircea_popescu: or in romanian, "daca si cu parca se plimbau cu-o barca. daca daca nu era, parca parca se-neca".
mircea_popescu: if and seems like were rowing in a boat. if if weren't there, seems like seems like'd have drowned.
cazalla: some quantcast stats are up https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
mircea_popescu: not bad.
BingoBoingo: Oh Quantcast and WP stats are pretty similar in the numbers
mircea_popescu: 940,806 US rank < straight in the top 1m hehe
mircea_popescu: ftr, coindesk is estimated around 20k ish daily.
mircea_popescu: ie, you're already 2-3%
BingoBoingo: https://www.quantcast.com/top-sites << Who could #7 be?
assbot: Quantcast - Top Ranking International Websites
BingoBoingo: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/
assbot: Judge Rejects Defense That FBI Illegally Hacked Silk RoadOn a Technicality | WIRED
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00073978 = 39.0234 BTC [-] {3}
thickasthieves: "Ulbricht hadn’t sufficiently demonstrated that the server belonged to him, and thus can’t claim that his privacy rights were violated by its search. "
thickasthieves: he hasnt admitted guilt, so he cant be innocent
thickasthieves: fuck me...
midnightmagic: 14:30 <+mircea_popescu> gerstein addressing known shill, scammer and general clueless derp : "you're just like us! we love you here!" << thank you
kanzure: did he claim that his property rights were violated, or that the owner's property rights were violated?
thickasthieves: he'd need to admit the server was his first
thickasthieves: it's a fucking joke
midnightmagic: it's an absurdity
midnightmagic: must the neighbour give testimoney that the police were trespassing to invalidate an apprehension? trespass is presumed, not proven.
BingoBoingo: The judge alledges he could have claimed ownership in a way that wouldn't be a confession, but which would have effectively made his taking the stand either have to end in a confession or perjury
thickasthieves: it's absurd
thickasthieves: i'm mad
midnightmagic: the form of an investigation is almost the entirety of whether justice is served
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the technicality known as "technically, i gotta eat, and these people are paying for it."
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3B3GWQV.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1
mircea_popescu: !up maximian
mats_cd03: ;;nethash
gribble: 261049969.639
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 21(Y):79(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.28503498 BTC. Current weight: 59,896.
BingoBoingo: mega lolz https://twitter.com/CoinFireBlog/status/520699230156226560
assbot: ./koinify announced the addition of ./VinnyLingham to the advisory board and ./ofnumbers as a mentor: http://t.co/K4vpqjgrHX
mircea_popescu: “The government posits two standards of behavior: one for private citizens, who must adhere to a strict standard of conduct construed by the government,” read a final filing Tuesday. “The other for the government, which, with its elastic ability to effect electronic intrusion, can deliberately, cavalierly, and unrepentantly transgress those same standards.”
mircea_popescu: that part at least is worth taking away.
mircea_popescu: the very definition of a rogue state is "one which construes itself more powerful than the private citizen"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you going to make that court document scan a text btw ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah
BingoBoingo: 38 pages so I'll txt it a bit different. .txt file to download
mircea_popescu: textifying all the pdfs/scans idiots dump online, as well as textifying audio/video are very legitimates avenues for qntra to add value
mircea_popescu: automate as much of it as possible and then automate the remainder. twice.
mircea_popescu: got any good ocr and sound to text software atm ?
mircea_popescu: and prolly best to make it a page rather than a txt file. people want what they want when they click.
mircea_popescu: not after a dld and a notepad or w/e they use.
mircea_popescu: besides, html.
mircea_popescu: !up Takeshi
mircea_popescu: okay.
mircea_popescu: what is wcn anyway ?
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/judge-forrest-rejects-illegal-search-defense-in-ulbricht-case/
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> and prolly best to make it a page rather than a txt file. people want what they want when they click. << Updated this one now to have both
mircea_popescu: worx
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> got any good ocr and sound to text software atm ? << Dunno of any yet
mircea_popescu: but im serious about the ocr and the text to speech. it can do the bulk of the work.
mircea_popescu: gives you a significant advantage.
mircea_popescu: iirc asciilifeform mentioned some pdf textualizer in the logs ?
BingoBoingo: Oh, I found a pdf textualizer, but I dunno if it handles pdfs that are just photographs of text yet
mircea_popescu: you seriously should spend a week or w/e it takes trying out ocrs and voice recognition tools and whatnot, because going forward this will remain an issue
BingoBoingo: It's going on the agenda.
mircea_popescu: being able to take a turd and turn it into readable content within an hour or a day, and being able to so process gigabytes of crud a month is, by itself, more barrier to entry than all the collective "press" has
mircea_popescu: and i don't mean coindeks. i mean wired
mircea_popescu: and if you get it to where you have to fix a letter per ten words you're way way ahead of someone who has to press pause every five seconds
mircea_popescu: not that anyone actually even exists in the cloud of vaporized shit comprising the kids-of-www that even has the drive or the intellectual werewithal to take down an hour of speech or an acre of blackboard anyway.
mircea_popescu: you'd think everyone's got a college degree means they are god damned good at exactly that. but...
BingoBoingo: Yeah, so far most of the deturdified text has been low hanging fruit, but automating the hard stuff is going to be nice sauce
mircea_popescu: definitely.
mircea_popescu: and i mean, i can tell anjie didn't sleep to do that one, which is exactly what she should have done, but once.
cazalla: have not finished reading logs but the thing i do not like about the txt version is that it's difficult to read unless it's formatted correctly
mircea_popescu: you can't have people do this by hand forever.
cazalla: i don't see the value in just copying to a post without making it readable
mircea_popescu: cazalla the point being that it's easier to format/spellcheck a predeturdified turd than to write from scratch
cazalla: better to link to a txt than include it in post than imo
bounce: formatting html or actual text? latter case, "fmt" or "par" (not par2, entirely different beast) might help
mircea_popescu: fmt is a good idea yeah
mircea_popescu: cazalla why ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00073834 = 4.2085 BTC [-]
Takeshi: https://www.youtube.com/user/WorldCryptoNetwork WCN is a youtube channel .
assbot: World Crypto Network - YouTube
mircea_popescu: aha cool.
mircea_popescu: ok, so go ahead.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu your dead man is live on that chan
kakobrekla: hehe
mircea_popescu: wait, wut ?
kakobrekla: AA
kakobrekla: currently live on WCN
mircea_popescu: lol cool
BingoBoingo: OMG Zombies!
mthreat: mircea_popescu: $200 and $500 peso notes coming? http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=762332
assbot: Esbozos de billetes de $ 200 y $ 500 - Ambito.com
mthreat: it's about time, I guess. $100 pesos is worth 7 dollars
mircea_popescu: they're behind the times, should be 1k 2k and 5k
mircea_popescu: more like 6.
mthreat: i'm a week behind then ;)
mircea_popescu: ;;rated cazalla
gribble: You rated user cazalla on Wed Apr 16 22:29:03 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
mircea_popescu: ;;rate cazalla 2 qntra.net chief editor.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user cazalla has changed from 1 to 2.
mthreat: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 Lunch & drinks in Buenos Aires
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mthreat: bah
mircea_popescu: ;;rated mthreat
gribble: You rated user mthreat on Sat Jun 21 05:42:17 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Awesome search ; coffee.
mthreat: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 Lunch & drinks in Buenos Aires
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.
mthreat: finally I rated someone
mircea_popescu: lol wd.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^
kakobrekla: +2 boohoo
mircea_popescu: what are you at yet anyway, 90something ?
kakobrekla: dunno
BingoBoingo: ;;getratings kakobrekla
gribble: Error: "getratings" is not a valid command.
bounce: it's the obvious and easily typed "ratingsystem getrating"
bounce would demonstrate but gribble has been forgetful again
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust nanotube mtgox
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nanotube to user mtgox: Level 1: 6, Level 2: 38 via 9 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nanotube&dest=mtgox | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mtgox | Rated since: Mon Nov 8 13:35:39 2010
BingoBoingo: ;;ratingsystem getrating kakobrekla
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. User kakobrekla, rated since Fri May 13 18:50:53 2011. Cumulative rating 148, from 77 total ratings. Received ratings: 77 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 78 positive, 6 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=kakobrekla
BingoBoingo: Oic
thestringpuller: nice find
kakobrekla: ;;getrating kakobrekla
gribble: Use the gettrust command instead. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Relying_on_the_rating
kakobrekla: heh
mike_c: <+mircea_popescu> you can't have people do this by hand forever. << that might be the easiest solution actually. set up some amazon mechanical turk automation.
thestringpuller: !ticker h am1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.13500000 / 0.13812501 / 0.14000001 (8 shares, 1.10500004 BTC), 7D: 0.10010000 / 0.13283625 / 0.19210002 (1410 shares, 187.29910975 BTC), 30D: 0.10000001 / 0.15529865 / 0.26900000 (5423 shares, 842.18456297 BTC)
mircea_popescu: mike_c i wouldn't trust random fiverr derp not to mess up the words
mircea_popescu: and seeing how the very purpose of this stuff is for people to be able to do deep searches for impredictable later interests, it'd be less than useful.
mike_c: but you've got steady work, can find reliable people
mircea_popescu: people are not for steady work. machines are for steady work.
mircea_popescu: people are for unsteady work.
mike_c: yes, but machines do a crappy job of voice/pdf -> text. maybe the turks are the ones who clean it up.
mircea_popescu: (it won't scale. if one day i want to do 1tb i can just throw more chickens at it, provided it runs on chickens)
mircea_popescu: do they still ?
mircea_popescu: i was hoping 20 years later it's fixed mostly.
mircea_popescu: how does ziri work or w/e was apple calling its paperclip ?
mike_c: see the textification qntra did of the defense filing. all chopped up and stuff.
mike_c: siri doesn't have to produce a readable text though, just understand the gist.
mike_c: depends how important quality is i guess. but a rough text is painful to read to me.
mircea_popescu: quality is actulaly pretty important yeah,.
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCfzph5dHs0 << check out the bitcoin evanghelist.
assbot: Bitcoin Poem #1 - Bitcoin is not - YouTube
ben_vulpes: http://emojilisp.com/
assbot: Emojilisp!
ben_vulpes: the only language adequate to replace c++ for btc dev