⏐︎ 25212
asciilifeform: 'mac' ~can~ be treated as something like an irix or solaris box, as a funny-looking frame around a bourne shell and x11 terminal
asciilifeform: winblows - not.
mircea_popescu: "Pixar does NOT use Apple computers to make 3D for their movies (modeling, animation, render, shaders, etc.). They use Linux, just like everyone else in the industry. Now they might use a Mac to paint a background or texture something but all feature animation is done in Linux (Disney, Dreamworks, Sony Animation, Blue Sky, etc. etc.). That's also true for SFX shops like ILM, Weta, Sony Imageworks, DD, etc. etc. All Lin
mircea_popescu: ux."
mircea_popescu: i had no idea.
asciilifeform: why would anyone use anything other than linux boxen for a headless render farm
asciilifeform: ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 1117 @ 0.00111 = 1.2399 BTC {2}
mircea_popescu: "modeling, animation, render, shaders"
asciilifeform: they, likely, have proper card specs from nvidia etc. under nda
mircea_popescu: why would someone use something other than the car to go shop ? "oh, this is for work!!1"
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: 'pixar' does not live by same constraints as us mortals
asciilifeform: if they want the gpu datasheet - they get.
asciilifeform: (perhaps minus the 'nsa chapter' but enough to run shader.)
mircea_popescu: anyone can get the mafia to embed an engineer if they have money.
asciilifeform: sure. but why would the 'anyone' make the result available gratis to his competition ?
asciilifeform: (incidentally, the success history of ussr attempting this was spotty, to say the least.)
mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: there's an endless mountaineous heap of work, and the last time i talked to someone even halfway competent was last week.
asciilifeform: 'embed engineer' sounds simple, but he has to be permitted near the jewels, know what's worth stealing, ~and~ continue working for ~you~ rather than the nice fella who now signs his bonuses
mircea_popescu waves hand
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174799 << i live there! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:06:08; mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the shortage is of work that 1) pays 2) doesn't make you want to shoot yourself in the head immediately
asciilifeform: 1 or 2 alone - so plentiful that 'you can eat with your arse'
asciilifeform: 1+2 - 'unicorn'
asciilifeform: and there is no shortage whatsoever of 'skilled folk.' there is only shortage at a particular price point.
asciilifeform: while (!hired(bid++)); << convenient algo.
williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg ☟︎☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByC18 )
mircea_popescu: williamdunne folk with beards all look the same to you don't they
williamdunne: Possibly
williamdunne: In my defence though, two bitcoiners who look pretty similar
williamdunne: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRaK8aUcAAdXlR.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByFdt )
williamdunne: With the same bear
williamdunne: *beard
williamdunne: I'm pretty sure it is dpb
mircea_popescu: doesn't look like him to me, but hey. danielpbarron is it or ain't it ?
mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ? ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.00040995 = 41.9379 BTC [-]
williamdunne: Putting her money where her mouth is supposedly
asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu's idea of 'competence' approximately equals 'willing to dig in chernoble reactor for 2 rubles / hour'
asciilifeform: these - yes, good luck finding.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no dude. it's "go do something useful". after interval, person has done something useful.
mircea_popescu: really very low bar, in any other time than the present
asciilifeform: not hard - yes, today - if ~pay~
asciilifeform: this is ~not~ like the scarcity of, e.g., 'real computer', where ~it doesn't matter if you're rich, it doesn't exist~
mircea_popescu: and yet <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru
asciilifeform: well yes, because all of the things one can't even dream of affording 'look quite alike'
mircea_popescu: no amount of pay is going to deretardify reddit.
asciilifeform: no amount will put out the sun either
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ? << Largely this. I know a person who "Does Video" for a and I am not making this up: "Storytelling Consultancy" or at least he did. Not sure atm what that douche is doing.
asciilifeform: i was speaking of problems that are at least theoretically worth solving
asciilifeform: e.g., laying down shaded pixels
asciilifeform: or getting $proggy built as-so
mircea_popescu: there's more pixels needing laying down than there are people who can do it. period.
mircea_popescu: infinite pay per capita would not fix this
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'this is like protein folding' - sure
asciilifeform: there is infinite appetite
mircea_popescu: that's the ACTUAL bargaining chip of the sv firms : if you ACTUALLY want us to pay market rate, market rate's infinity and we're paying it. get printing.
asciilifeform: sv pays in counterfeit money
mircea_popescu: it has to!
mircea_popescu: there's no way to pay five people to do six jobs!
mircea_popescu: for pay to work as you expect there's a strict requirement that jobs < people.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants to remove a pair of hands from sv, all he'd have to do is pay in actual money
mircea_popescu: o, wait, "actual money" = "fixed percent of all the money that'sd ever going to exist" ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: tyvm. but... what fixed percent of all the money that's ever going to exist is microsoft worth ?
mircea_popescu: 0.0001% say ?
mircea_popescu: if that ?
mircea_popescu: so ima pay what, 10 btc for all of redmond ?
asciilifeform: microshit is worth what mosquitoes are worth
asciilifeform: i.e. with negative sign bit
mircea_popescu: this is getting pretty complex.
asciilifeform: what is the removal of the last mosquito 'worth'
mircea_popescu: and i mean that literally. a + bi
asciilifeform: if there were, e.g., a martian in orbit, known for his impeccable honesty, who offered to vaporize every last employee of microshit, present and past, for 10 btc - mircea_popescu would decline ?
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: 'not worth bullet' ?
mircea_popescu: for one think, iirc that'd do mike_c in.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu is too old to fall for "progress" and "future" tricks. i'm not paying for that.
asciilifeform: fair
asciilifeform: and who's to say what weevils will breed in the crater
mircea_popescu: and on it goes.
asciilifeform: but as gedankenexperiment re: what a great blight is 'worth'
mircea_popescu: forget your own opinion, the thing trades on exchanges, worth what, 100bn ?
mircea_popescu: yes, i would trade 10 btc for 100bn "worth" of engineering work.
asciilifeform: sumthinglikethat
mircea_popescu: that's what, two million man-years ?
asciilifeform: measuring software dev in 'man-time' is ~how we got a planet with microshit in the first place~
mircea_popescu: you're the one forcing me to use nonsensical terms to humor you
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: now you bitch about their nonsensicalness ?!
asciilifeform: was trying to walk on tightrope between lunacy and sense
mircea_popescu: glwt!
mircea_popescu: it's simple, really : when jobs < people, you can pay. when jobs > people, you gotta let em volunteer. no other way.
mircea_popescu: yes, you gotta distribute resources back out somehow, but it can only be via equity.
mircea_popescu: fnance is what it is, its own kind of thermodynamics, off of which it is actually derived.
asciilifeform: when will mircea_popescu be volunteering for rat shooting detail in the abandoned factories of leningrad ?
mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like. ☟︎
asciilifeform: more rats than shooters atm
asciilifeform: hence 'all must volunteer' ?
mircea_popescu: well clearly no-one's payin' em ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem exists because it's global. not because "in this tiny island of rust beltlandia so and so rats".
mircea_popescu: this is the first seriouys problem we ran into, ever since this globalization paradigm.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174884 << i can't pretend to any divine revelation re: the numbers, but what i do see is folks who pay lawyer $xxxxx to solve their problem, and offer programmer $xxx. and then wonder why their programmatic problems remain unsolved. they answer 'lawyer is a man and programmer is a monkey. and the latter gets monkey wage.' answer: you paid for monkey. so that's what you get. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:34:08; mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.
mircea_popescu: this scenario only plays out in your own mind (admittedly poisoned by a lot of interaction with idiots). in reality it's like this : there are more jobs than people. the system where you pay people a salary only works when there are more people than jobs. when there are more jobs than people you essentially create a large excavator of sense on a large mountain of problems, and divy up the results somehow. such as they
mircea_popescu: are.
mircea_popescu: this is what i mean by equity.
mircea_popescu: and yes this means people working can end up not making anything. it does. necessarily.
mircea_popescu: in theory it works out to better pay and better working coinditions than the alternative, but
asciilifeform: this is an approachable problem
mircea_popescu: generally when people compare the present with the option they imagine, they take selected bits of each.
asciilifeform: once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation
asciilifeform: ditto the 'problems'
asciilifeform: most of them are not actual problems
mircea_popescu: there's no option here, however. no way will be devised where the systematically wrong model can be employed. it's, essentially, what a scam is : the proposition that we've temporarily turned thermodynamics off.
asciilifeform: but the stink of ape-man shit
mircea_popescu: i am not sure this simplification works as you intend it to.
mircea_popescu: you're cutting off T on one side with dT on the other side.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody turned thermodynamics off, but it is entirely possible to have a room full of lunatics mumbling 'vroom, vroom'
asciilifeform: which is what the 'computing industry' is largely about.
mircea_popescu: this while true, makes the problems not an iota smaller.
mircea_popescu: if your house is fulla shit, the realisation that an idiot shat your floor does not clean it any.
asciilifeform: it reduces the 'ocean of problems' to one particular - scientifically formulatable - problem.
mircea_popescu: arguably intellectual problems, such as software, are easier to clean for being virtual rather than physically embodied
mircea_popescu: but still not that much.
asciilifeform: people ask why 'computing is different' and answer is that the field had the misfortune to appear at the same time as the great 'democratization' shit-lathering of the 20th c.
mircea_popescu: not even true. computing appeared in the 50s.
asciilifeform: if, e.g., aeronautics had waited until such a time, 'airplane' would be synonymous with 'f-35'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as did the rest of the rot.
mircea_popescu: rest of the rot, imo, appeared in the 80s.
asciilifeform: but computing in the modern, interactive-terminal sense came later.
asciilifeform distinguishes act of 'computing' from 'calculating'
asciilifeform bbl, off to pet pet
mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and that's not even counting for the currently alive set.
mircea_popescu: generally, the prospect of being a lawyer is strictly speaking dimmer than the prospect of being a programmer.
mircea_popescu: there's no lawyer that walks away with a bn from a successful buyout.
mircea_popescu: there used to be but... in the 50s!
mircea_popescu: as far as they are concerned, getting an even bummer deal than code monkeys. plus they have the family dynasties stuff to make it more painful.
mircea_popescu: "my grandfather was a senator, and my father made a billion, and i'd better do another line of cock^H^Hke before i think about this too muc"
williamdunne: The best off lawyer I know, made very little of his money directly from being a lawyer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00042239 = 8.7012 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: in fact. most of these girlies are in the shitter, consider http://trilema.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/#selection-85.0-89.62
assbot: Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lpjm9Z )
mircea_popescu: the other one is that, the government. yes, fucktards like shrem end up selling the house to pay "the lawyer".
mircea_popescu: the same would have been true if they were fighting cancer as is true when they are fighting the usg.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, THE DOCTOR isn't seeing jack of all that.
mircea_popescu: nor is the laywer.
mircea_popescu: might as well say "you programmers don't need any money anyway, look at what google revenue is!"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation << Ah, the Roof problem. Rook shot up nine respectable civilized folk. If he really cared to address his precieved problem his target ought to have been a crack house.
mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: then coders (unlike doctors! or lawyers! and the lawyers would JUMP at the chance, if it were somehow feasible - but so far it's only feasible in banking and finance, mostly) get the option to work for equity, but
mircea_popescu: well.. "why can't it be like it was for oprah!!11"
mircea_popescu: well duh baby. because it never was, that's why.
BingoBoingo: Because Oprah's a hamplanet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70387 @ 0.00042707 = 30.0602 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and with math, too : if social expenditure for field is one trillion, and the headcount employed is one million, that means one million get to divy up a hundred million, thus making a whooping 100 a head. that's not even the fabled dollar a day.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the trillion spent means the govt got to offset 990 billion off another whatever indescript entry in its ledger,
mircea_popescu: and yes the trillion spent also means five people got two billion a pop give or take to be paraded across the country with a large jam tomorrow sign affixed.
mircea_popescu: cool, but what does it do ?
mircea_popescu: not like they can spend two billion to buy a hundred thousand aks and ammo for them and shoot the whole charade into the ground
mircea_popescu: because their 2bn is conditionally theirs on the understanding not that it won't get used "for terrorism",
mircea_popescu: but that it won't be used at all.
mircea_popescu: o, nm, you can "donate it".
mircea_popescu: just as long as it's a meaningless act, carefully sterilized, pointless and ineffectual.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, i'll listen sympathetically to any programmer that can't feed himself ; and i'll be amused at any programmer that "but oprah!". the field's over there, and it takes all comers. don't mind the manure.
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7p2qfBWlJ1rbog77o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpmpPr )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00043114 = 22.7857 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50650 @ 0.0004229 = 21.4199 BTC [-]
asciilifeform back
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's summary is essentially correct re: 'software industry'
asciilifeform: but to bring it back to the 'dirty house, cleaners want wheelbarrow of gold, so must stay dirty' - i doubt mircea_popescu is suffering from any software problem that, say, terry davis (deliberately not nominating any of the folks here for this gedankenexperiment) couldn't or wouldn't fix for, say, 50000btc
asciilifeform: and yes, the 'software industry' is so utterly rotten that an individual act of deretardification has to be contemplated on own merits, rather than as 'market action', modellable with the usual rules. sorta like buying a russian nuke. sui generis.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174939 << the magic of bitcoin is that 100% can go to the fella who is willing to dive in a pressure suit below five kilometres of liquid shit and retrieve grandmother's dishes from the sunken h.m.s. shitanic ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:52:54; mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97800 @ 0.00043133 = 42.1841 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but it'd have to be 100% of ฿escape_rocket, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.0004229 = 5.6034 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174921 << i don't single out lawyers from naive 'but mine has mercedes!' observation, but because the lawyers who ~actually reliably magic away problems~ are not dying in debt. or worrying about rent. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:44:04; mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
asciilifeform: ditto for surgeons who specialize in the nearly-impossible, etc
BingoBoingo: Lawyers who can reliably contain problems don't const $maxint. The only lawyers who charge $maxint aren't charging for their lawyering, but marketing. Hence Ulbricht hiring the maliciously incompetent Dratel snake.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: to be fair, we don't know what he paid. perhaps d. agreed to work for considerable discount..
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dratel from what I understands works until open ended fundraiser is exhausted.
BingoBoingo: Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources
asciilifeform: plus lawyer was quite possibly the wrong tool for the job. ulbricht needed to hire 'blackwater' rather than lawyer.
mircea_popescu: i suffer from such a problem, yes.
mircea_popescu: !s $maxint
assbot: 168 results for '$maxint' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%24maxint
mircea_popescu: according to you, at least.
mircea_popescu: apparently they'd have to bake a whole new silicone process.
asciilifeform did not say 'new process' !
asciilifeform: just new standard cells
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't give 50k to random unknown schmuck without a wot for the obvious reasons, regardless what they can or could do.
asciilifeform: and any undergrad 'ee' student can draw you the muller gate standard cell in cmos.
asciilifeform: after that, it's merely a matter of 'build skyscraper'
mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the dratel example is particularly on point. what that man did was the equivalent of a bitdaytrade "platform".
asciilifeform: the solution of very expensive problems with no precedent is quite possibly a lemon market, yes.
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "this program does nothing" "yes, but it takes some time - like any other program!"
asciilifeform: i see dratel as a pretty obvious case of usg mole
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources << and the fact that kid would sign off on this - pretty disgraceful.
mircea_popescu: but THEY know what they're doing. they are doing exactly tyhis : make the chumps helpless.
mircea_popescu: "what's the point of donating - prolly go straight to a lawyer snake anyway"
mircea_popescu: nice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform me too. the problem is - this was one of the more successful ones.
BingoBoingo: This is why for my still to be litigated misdemeanor charge attorney is still working off of his flat $150 pre-trial fee.
asciilifeform: herr ulbricht didn't have a 'lawyer problem,' he had a military problem. or could a sufficiently expert german lawyer have exonerated, say, the 'july plot' folks who failed to nail the fuhrer
mircea_popescu: you're misrepresenting things.
mircea_popescu: the goal here is not to "Exonerate"
mircea_popescu: the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system.
asciilifeform: leaving aside the fact that poor u. wanted to save own sorry hide, rather than 'damage system,' there is precedent.
mircea_popescu: oleander blosom doesn't run outof your mouth, plant itself back on tree.
asciilifeform: ted kaczynski ('unabomber')
mircea_popescu: oleander blosom sees to it that's the last time YOU're running anywhere. ☟︎
asciilifeform: read transcript of his trial some time
mircea_popescu: what of it ?
asciilifeform: fella was brilliant, and devoted entire trial to making 'rule of law' look as ridiculous as it is
asciilifeform: 'max damage to system'
asciilifeform: ended with: muzzle.
mircea_popescu: indeed.
asciilifeform: and lifetime supermax
asciilifeform: (ditto with muzzle)
mircea_popescu: also ended with us here.
asciilifeform: and the 'damage' was a tiny scratch on the bumper
asciilifeform: need a microscope to see it.
mircea_popescu: or dja regard the present as unconnected ?
mircea_popescu: i beg to differ, i see it quite plainly.
asciilifeform: not certain how connected
asciilifeform: open to seeing the logic ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think the connections will ever be certain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101400 @ 0.00040995 = 41.5689 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but broadly, "if the rule of law didn't suck, or if it did and nobody'd bother showing it - what then ?"
mircea_popescu: anyway. see the married men article. they who wish to be exonrated left,long ago. those who stay ALREADY MADE the choice to max damage.
mircea_popescu: turning back on one';s choices later is not another's problem. i am not held to explain why the guy that changed his mind failed both ways.
asciilifeform: what is this 'left', when the bottle has no outside.
asciilifeform: or is there a colony of 'left' on mars.
mircea_popescu: tough.
mircea_popescu: nobody said you get to make all the choices you might wish to.
mircea_popescu: and yes, it's a choice even if you didn't get to make it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00040995 = 14.6557 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: yes, but mircea_popescu mentioned something like 'those who wished, left'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system. << This. On my misdemeanor charge which it was suggest I settle organizational incompetence on the part of the police and prosecution seems to be scuttling whatever case they may or may not have had. Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel. Alleged "victim" is reportedly now a joke subject to taunts from coworkers wit
BingoBoingo: h any ability he might have had to use "powers of office" effectively castrated.
mircea_popescu: observably some people left.
mircea_popescu: Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel << lmao.
BingoBoingo: Seriously people were like "It's a misdemeanor don't fight it." I'm like "It's a misdemeanor and I'm white. They prolly don't anticipate having to prosecute it"
asciilifeform: back to thread where we http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174986 >> demonstrably false in a sharashka. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:46:57; mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
asciilifeform: in sharashka, the very best rocket designer's terms are 'i get to eat'
mircea_popescu: notrly. reread your source material.
mircea_popescu: people naming their own terms were in there - provided, of course, they got to magic away problems.
asciilifeform: well, he gets caviar while the worst gets beans, sure
mircea_popescu: this is strictly different from "jewish princesses imagining themselves special in own mind"
asciilifeform: just like sharashka where i live.
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: do i need to quote verse and chapter to you ? because if i do you're eating crow.
asciilifeform: of what? solzhenitsyn?
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: let's have actual, vs fictional personages ?
asciilifeform: say, korolev
mircea_popescu: pick one, they all have it, as part of being credible.
asciilifeform: did k 'name own terms' ?
asciilifeform: what if he has asked 'i want to live in manhattan as a free man' as 'terms' ?
asciilifeform: on the contrary, at the peak of his career, he had two goons stationed outside of his apartment door at all times.
asciilifeform: just to make sure that he doesn't - to manhattan (and, at least officially , that manhatten doesn't ~him~)
mircea_popescu: so we're switching "fiction as written by a respected source" to "fiction as alf feels like recounting it for the purpose of current convo" ?
asciilifeform: naturally i wasn't there, saying hello to k. in person
asciilifeform: if this means 'fiction' i should like to know where is reality.
mircea_popescu: in any case i'll score s above a, if you don't mind ?
mircea_popescu: at least he WAS there.
asciilifeform: ;;google хлопнут без некролога
gribble: Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev>; First get your facts straight... - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseudoscience/first-get-your-facts-straight-t46146.html>; How To Think Critically - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/how-to-think- (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32547 @ 0.0004182 = 13.6112 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: s. is approx. the same kind of guide to the subject as svetonius and '12 caesars' is to his.
asciilifeform: yes, he was there...
BingoBoingo: Maybe this is the wrong epoch's fiction being contrasted. Maybe 'Uncle Tom' and 'Gus' the christmas ornament would cover a larger range of outcomes.
mircea_popescu: well then we can't really say much can we.
asciilifeform: http://maxpark.com/community/4375/content/1932238 << primary sources
assbot: Арестованный №1442, он же — великий конструктор | АНТИСОВЕТСКАЯ ЛИГА ... ( http://bit.ly/1eIdf4t )
asciilifeform: incl. letter of k. to beria
asciilifeform: re his treatment
BingoBoingo: Gus the Christmas ornament of course being one of the antagonists in the original blockbuster film
mircea_popescu: i dunno that primary sources escape the suetonius objhection.
mircea_popescu: after all, he wrote with a purpose.
BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally k. did 'win from not signing the papers,' in a way. after recanting his confession (given under torture, which mutilated him in ways which ultimately led to his death) his death sentence was commuted to life-at-hard-labour
asciilifeform: (from which was eventually promoted to sharashka)
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174805 < lol software is the only game that pays ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:07:18; mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
mircea_popescu: yes, pays. like all knowledge. let him steal.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.0004248 = 11.7882 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly enough, five minutes ago :
mircea_popescu: <waylow> I'm on mac so I couldn't figure out how to install the game
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> oh macs. yeah that's been a pain. a binary for it is still being worked on, but it's slow going. if you have an ubuntu anywhere, from what i hear it's pretty smooth. also windows binaries work.
mircea_popescu: <waylow> I do - but it's been a while since I've run linux. no windows for me
mircea_popescu: teh exact customer you were talking about.
decimation: in theory bsd and mac should be similar
decimation: the problem is all the graphics shit
mircea_popescu: "all girls are similar until they strip"
decimation: heh
decimation: in theory you could make an X11 version if it already works on X
decimation: but performance would be shit
BingoBoingo: It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died
BingoBoingo: <decimation> in theory bsd and mac should be similar << BSD isn't all that similar to other BSD
BingoBoingo: They even all have their own libc
mircea_popescu: the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174989 < https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:48:21; mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
assbot: xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNaoV )
mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about. ☟︎
decimation: not quite goto but similar idea
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes. << Sure. The biggest difference was Amiga paid more for parts on each box so they could get the niche live video production market. All the assholes, reamed on their chosen niches
mircea_popescu: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?368748-New-Blender-Foundation-Transparency-Blog&p=2892923&viewfull=1#post2892923 << le lulz.
assbot: New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNKCV )
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175076 < actually whitey moved the black folk into the cities - to push out 'white ethnic' voting blocks ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:10:44; BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
mircea_popescu: we find the following things suspicious : romania, paywalls, and bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Your problem is you assume a monolithic whitey
mircea_popescu: everyone else does, why single him out for it.
mircea_popescu: whites are like the jews, amirite ?
decimation: no, I don't
BingoBoingo: Because goddammit muh culture is bein oppressed
decimation: generally 'whitey' in this case are old-fashioned anglican wasps
BingoBoingo: decimation: Only when sane pale folk say whitey. When SJW's and the lower class blacks say whitey they mean poor whites.
BingoBoingo: Mostly poor rural whites, southern optional.
decimation: and those poor whites were largely the targets of black immigration to cities
decimation: having a large block of voting catholic irish - had to be crushed
BingoBoingo: Liberal palefolk assume whitey mean Bushes, Clintons, and Rothschilds. Radical whites and non-graduating blacks assume whitey is trailer trash.
trinque: BingoBoingo | It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died << heard "microkernel wank" a couple times round here, but I was a huge BeOS fan back in the day
trinque: ultra-stable, high performance, was miles ahead of the game re: graphics in its time
BingoBoingo: trinque: BeBox was the next gen victim of Mac survival
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175101 << there was! but it is a mistake to lump in amiga. cbm was still under delusion that it sold ~computers~ rather than 'system' (that is, complete slave planet like apple, where peripheral makers pay danegeld, etc) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:27:05; mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.0004248 = 22.7693 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis
BingoBoingo: In Motorola era Amiga crushed. In PPC era BeBox crushed
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis << You mean apple provided a target for the drill
asciilifeform: (there were really four outfits under name 'apple' - the folks who sold apple ii series; the folks who sold 'mac' until '99; rebranded 'next corp.' under herr jobs; the present-day zombie.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: point was not that it was difficult to drill. aftermarket 'keys' appeared almost immediately. point was the symbolic meaning of this abomination
decimation: note that 'next' is basically modern osx
decimation: on top of bsd
asciilifeform: decimation: pre-'next' apple is as gone as cbm
decimation: yeah
asciilifeform: there is literally no trace of it remaining.
BingoBoingo: decimation: But on top of msot weirdo bsd
asciilifeform: in any of the products sold by that firm
decimation: c64 was probably better in its day anyway
mircea_popescu: than amiga ? definitely.
asciilifeform: c64 was unthinkably good for its day.
mircea_popescu: amiga sucked about as much as apple.
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu ever see an amiga alive ?
mircea_popescu: they stand in my mind because when i first heard of apple i thought "hey... this is like... amiga ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. friend had one.
asciilifeform: compare in the flower of their youth, rather than, say, '93 when cbm was a vegetable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39982 @ 0.0004248 = 16.9844 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ferphuxxsake amiga had what we'd call a gpu today
asciilifeform: when apple sold b&w thing
mircea_popescu: no, im comparing the amiga i knew (early 90s) to the apple i saw (late 90s onwards)
asciilifeform: and it was ~documented~
mircea_popescu: and while i agree with you re the distinction, i believe it's without a difference.
BingoBoingo: Apple II's apple's swan song the IIGS was a great machine
asciilifeform: the difference is that cbm did not sell a cult, it sold machinery
mircea_popescu: apple managed to somehow remain THE SAME assholes in spite of changing everything around jobs
punkman vaguely recalls some amazing Amiga games
decimation: asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall
asciilifeform: afaik cbm did not ever attempt to extort tribute from peripheral makers, or software devs
asciilifeform: nor tied user's hands in any particular way
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall << c64 was easily cheaply stamped product, Amiga was not
asciilifeform: it just sold boxes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how documented it was, not caring for such thing at that age. i know however that the amiga guy never made anything like a game.
mircea_popescu: we did, they sucked, how it goes.
asciilifeform: i'm ~still~ playing amiga games now
asciilifeform: (at least was, a few yrs ago, on emul.)
asciilifeform: quite comparable to mid-90s msdos, in terms of pure technical 'effect'
mircea_popescu: eh, shitty early playstation. fuck it.
BingoBoingo has never found a working Apple IIGS at an acceptable price. Played with one for a bit Phree then...
asciilifeform: again, it was a computer, sold as a computer, with 'anyone can write for this' and proper docs
asciilifeform: how this can be compared to 'playstation' i cannot fathom
decimation: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claimed that 'basic' was the real selling point of the c64
assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcPP1U )
decimation: he was probably right about that
asciilifeform: the death of cbm is a pretty well-documented subject, and revolved around their one and only unforgivable sin - royally pissing off their c64 install base by breaking compatibility
asciilifeform: eventually they diverted revenue into making items like 'c128' but it was too late.
asciilifeform: !s jack tramiel
assbot: 5 results for 'jack tramiel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jack+tramiel
asciilifeform: ^ iirc we had a cbm thread here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well ? THAT is how.
BingoBoingo: decimation: And warm climate agricultual labor was the selling point of involuntary immigration of Africans, but only because Mestizos were too expensive at the time.
decimation: yeah the other problem was jack tramiel left
decimation: because the commodore board was full of retards apparently
mircea_popescu: in other news : apparently blender has this official "marketplace" thing, which lists various assets for sale. so I go for a 16 bucks buy, on the theory that let's check it out. coinbase, of course. my payment is uncredited. they have a support email for just this case, i write to them... my email is rejected.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43244 @ 0.00042203 = 18.2503 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: apparently I'm the shady one for not using paypal and being romanian.
mircea_popescu: running off with payments and then blocking emails is a perfectly legit strategy.
mircea_popescu: im entirely certain they actually THINK THIS, too.
mircea_popescu: "weird bad, stupid good! for weird is weird and stupid smells like the home stable!11"
decimation: ^ note that thier perception of what is 'weird' is purely what usg smiles upon
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: email rejected ?
asciilifeform: as in bounce ?
trinque: it occurs to me that the fraud dept of paypal may look very much like some soviet bureau's office did
trinque: but we're free! because anyone can have their own dismal bureaucracy
trinque: they probably have a script they go by which includes something like "third world" on it
mircea_popescu: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<support@cgcookiemarkets.com>:
mircea_popescu: 554 5.7.1 ACL dns_rbl; Client host [] blocked using
mircea_popescu: sa-ip4tset.blagr.emailsrvr.com= Cloudmark CSI. Please visit
mircea_popescu: http://csi.cloudmark.com/reset-request for more information on why this message
assbot: CSI IP Reputation Remediation Portal ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcQMqX )
mircea_popescu: could not be delivered
mircea_popescu: the odds of me "visiting" some random agent in the "danegeld to email" scamring ? zilch.
mircea_popescu: interesting how the twerps keep changing name, too. i don't seem to recall this particular extortionist.
decimation: "The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name."
asciilifeform: jwz!
asciilifeform: (y'know, the fella who said 'why aren'tcha using gmail, terrorist')
mircea_popescu: well not exactly. he was more into the "why should i punish google for google fucking up my email ?!?!?! i just want email to work!!11"
asciilifeform: phun phakt: tramiel sat in auschwitz.
decimation: !s damnatio memoriae
assbot: 7 results for 'damnatio memoriae' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=damnatio+memoriae
decimation: asciilifeform: not auschwitz, Ahlem according to la wik
decimation: ah no he started in auschwitz
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, Checking against 95 known blacklists... Listed 0 times with 0 timeouts
decimation: "Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. " nasty
mircea_popescu: the world totally needs 95 of these things.
asciilifeform: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/12/local/la-me-jack-tramiel-20120412 << tramiel didn't give a rat's arse re: computing 'big picture.' he was running a manufacturing concern, in the old 19th. sense in his mind, complete with 'muntzing'
assbot: Jack Tramiel obituary: Founder of Commodore computers dies at 83 - latimes ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcReWb )
punkman: did the qntra spam affect the other domains too?
decimation: asciilifeform: the electronics industry is still largely in that mode
mircea_popescu: punkman http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx << not really.
assbot: Network Tools: DNS,IP,Email ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcRhBh )
asciilifeform: decimation: if only. the 'intellectual property!!!111!!!!!' cancer has eaten most of it
asciilifeform: go and try getting full docs for anything larger than a full adder.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: what I mean is that intel, for instance, just puts all their chips on the 'let's shrink dies' side
decimation: no one is re-thinking big picture
decimation: not that we would know it anyway, because of the nda problem
asciilifeform: actually the thing they put 'all their chips' is collaboration with microshit and the entire criminal pyramid
asciilifeform: the 'shrink dies' thing is pure sideshow.
decimation: it yields a few percent per year
asciilifeform: it is done ~solely~ so that microshit gets to release winblows $year
asciilifeform: with 20% more empty loops
asciilifeform: and 'indian' code
decimation: note that microsoft has dropped price of windows to $0
decimation: even though it's really worth negative
asciilifeform: eventually will have to pay folks to touch it
mircea_popescu: and they will.
mircea_popescu: perfect way for the living wage introduction.
decimation: the only thing I use winblows for is to record tv shows, because they give free listing service
mircea_popescu: "pay people to use windows, to better technologee"
decimation: this was dropped in new windwos
mircea_popescu: exact equivalent of mcdonalds
mircea_popescu: which is the eventual fate of all government agencies.
mircea_popescu: fed to pleb fake money conveyor.
asciilifeform: this is already happening. but, as william gibson wrote, 'the future is here, but not evenly distributed.'
mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: i have winblows box. solely to run malware. which is one of the things i am paid for.
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: so in effect i am 'paid to touch it'
mircea_popescu: and you will be telling me about how hard it is to escape, right, because moving off windows will require "someone to provide the lost income"
decimation: asciilifeform: you almost need real metal box, because of all the vm detection
mircea_popescu: and i will just nod and carry on.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha
asciilifeform: decimation: of course they are specially designated physical boxes.
asciilifeform: decimation: i actually work for a firm which builds computers solely for this purpose
asciilifeform: believe or not.
decimation: ideally someone would make one with a button to freeze and dump all registers
asciilifeform: and guess what.
mircea_popescu: this must exist.
asciilifeform: it does.
asciilifeform: i built it. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: haha cool.
decimation: I believe it, you could make lots of headway against malware if you can control its hardware environment
mats: would love to read that secret sauce
asciilifeform: decimation: thing is, we discovered that not many folks are really eager to 'make headway against malware'
asciilifeform: they just want to collect the bezzle
mats: have dreamed of a usable reversible debugger for many moons
mircea_popescu: curious if mats gets hired now.
decimation: sure, why bother actually finding malware when people will pay you to pretend
asciilifeform: not many ~want~ to find
asciilifeform: because when you ~find~ strange, now you have to properly reverse it, document...
asciilifeform: and then it turns out to be usg-authored, and then what
asciilifeform: (who pays?)
decimation: heh
decimation: you could sell to another arm of usg
asciilifeform: so far, they ain't buying.
mircea_popescu: o yeah. definitely already here but not evenly distributed.
mircea_popescu: usg on usg love.
asciilifeform: for same reason, e.g., microshit isn't
decimation: asciilifeform: a large reason why this problem exists is becuase you can't sue microsoft for damaging your shit
asciilifeform: decimation: naturally
mircea_popescu: o yea.
asciilifeform: decimation: but only proximately.
mats: externalizing costs is how software engineers have jobs
asciilifeform: yes, they exempted software 'industry' from ~all~ consumer liability laws in '80s.
asciilifeform: but if only this. since then, an entire class of vermin sprang up
asciilifeform: who pretend to 'write software'
mats: much unlike a civil engineer responsible for faulty bridgeworks...
decimation: and now the 'rats run the ship'
asciilifeform: the notion that any kind of animal is even possible other than rat, is held to be a lunatic fringe thing
decimation: even simple programmers know what it would take to write bug-free code
decimation: about 100x less 'production' and 100x more 'thinking'
decimation: in fact, to even seriously consider writing software for which you are liable is to instantly consider dumping the existing c-machine
mats: while i'm on the subject here is there useful reversible debugging you're aware of, asciilifeform?
mats: gdb can kinda do it, but its slow and buggy.
asciilifeform: decimation: the folks who have 'must work' as hard requirement still prefer the whole 'spend ten years with magnifying glass' to 'rethink computing'
mats: rr is neat but limited... reversedb is limited to linux.
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/572468782057013248/WtdCdJXG_400x400.jpeg << /me notices how this guy is always in this quad double-dating sort of situation, but apparently always with a different gal.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcT5tU )
mats: vmware got rid of record/replay after vmware 7
mircea_popescu: swingin' london.
asciilifeform: mats: what, precisely, do you need reverse-gear for ?
asciilifeform: mats: what's wrong with rewinding by running proggy again
mircea_popescu: mats gdb is what eulora uses if that makes you feel any better.
asciilifeform: to whatever breakpoint
mats: slow
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gdb is what the entire free world uses
asciilifeform: at least in one form or another
decimation: asciilifeform: my own experience is that it's way more difficult to paper over shitty hardware in software than to make reliable hardware
mats: i want to easily see the values of all registers (as noted before) including bit flags, fp registers, ...
asciilifeform: mats: my favourite graphical skin on gdb is... ida.
asciilifeform: yes, ida.
mats: figures
mircea_popescu: ha
decimation: mats: you could probably do this with valgrind too
asciilifeform: it speaks 100% compliant gdb wire protocol
asciilifeform: decimation: valgrind is not a debugger
decimation: yeah but it does emulate x86, I gotta think someone has integrated debug
asciilifeform: mno. doesn't emulate anything
asciilifeform: must be confusing it with somethig else?
asciilifeform: mats: ida is a total monopoly on the kind of thing that it is, bar none. i don't know of any other product category anywhere in modern industry where there is ~ONE~ thing
asciilifeform: possibly 'mpex'
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
asciilifeform: the two of them.
decimation: ah yeah http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/manual-core-adv.html#manual-core-adv.gdbserver
assbot: Valgrind ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jk8H14 )
mats: asciilifeform: i don't have anything specific in mind. have been developing my talents in exploitation but i'm kind of stuck as to how to move forward
decimation: but anway if you want to reverse software you need ida
asciilifeform: decimation: whatddayaknow, there is emulator.
asciilifeform: neato
mats: asciilifeform: i should probably sign up to be jr malware analyst or some such thing.
asciilifeform: mats: if you have the stomach !
decimation: mats: i think there's a free version of ida for download
decimation: ancient
mats: i'm from the internets, why settle for free
decimation: well, I'm also sure there's warez too
mats: plenty of working license files floating
mats: or however that works.
asciilifeform: reasonably recent ida (having, e.g., 'hexray' plugin, more or less mandatory, and support for weird cpus, etc) is notoriously scarce on warez
asciilifeform: why? story is: irfan guilfanov builds custom copy for each buyer.
asciilifeform: who 'leaks' - is damned publicly and never dealt with again, has to buy support via shills
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: ilfak guilfanov. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: if only the guy could join teh wot.
asciilifeform: ask'im
asciilifeform: but iirc he sold the firm years ago
mircea_popescu: i dun know 'im
asciilifeform: now sits in belgium, angry
decimation: this sounds like the best mechanism for trying to enforce 'copyright' I've heard of
mats: its pretty easy to say 'well i got hacked plz gief another one'
decimation: asciilifeform: I bet you could control valgrind gdb with ida
mircea_popescu: mats same could be said re btc.
decimation: set breakpoints on mem leaks, etc
asciilifeform: the folks who own it now are profoundly aware of their position. you pretty much have to beg repeatedly to so much as be given an address to which to mail the cheque
asciilifeform: to buy a copy
asciilifeform: mats: 'got hacked' gets same treatment as 'leaked deliberately'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe wot is the pill to no longer be angry.
asciilifeform: maybe
asciilifeform doesn't know the chap personally, can't help find him
mircea_popescu waves in the general direction of the ethers
decimation: asciilifeform: once you add a few more zeros to your bank account, probably can't be bothered with a few extra $k
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'ida' is a beast quite like 'bitcoind'
mircea_popescu: so i hear.
asciilifeform: terrible, monumentally stinking cpp turd
asciilifeform: to which there is no realistic alternative
mircea_popescu: /you are not expected to understand this
asciilifeform: decimation: understand, every 'legit' corp. on the planet which employs reverse-engineers, incl. the arms of usg, buys ida.
mats: most of the serious dudes i know have non-attributed ida licenses
asciilifeform: sure.
mats: which can be easily done by setting up a shell corp, or just lie.
asciilifeform: didn't say they buy one for each man!
decimation: why bother with attribution?
asciilifeform: thing is, it's attributed whether it displays your name or not
decimation: yeah, unless you are sending envelope of cash, he has your checking account
asciilifeform: vendor knows for whom the build (with particular order of static linked internals, etc) was built
asciilifeform: to really deal with this, would have to obtain a number of builds, and unravel the scheme
asciilifeform: afaik no one has ever bothered (why?)
decimation: because it would be like paying for the sun
asciilifeform: phun phakt: ~explotable~ crashes have been discovered in (some versions of) ida.
asciilifeform: *exploitable
decimation: as in, malicious?
decimation: or as in, can be exploited if reversing the wrong warez?
asciilifeform: as in arbitrary code exec as result of crafted sample
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: this did not annoy folks as much as it should have because until recently (linux ver. is new) everyone ran it on a designated turdbox with the other wincrap
decimation: asciilifeform: if you had a winblows computer for malware, it would also be useful to hit another button and display a complete diff between running state and 'known good' state
asciilifeform: ...and guess what..
decimation: and a third button that reverts machine to known state
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9958 @ 0.00041107 = 4.0934 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: and guess what.
decimation: already implemented?
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: on a vaguely related note, I found an amusing show on 'the weather channel' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1gZSNdkajY
assbot: Prospectors | S01E01 | Breaking the Dry Spell - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcVGEr )
asciilifeform: a bit oversimplified description, but yes, we make this.
decimation: apparently there are people who spend their time trying to find minerals on federal land
asciilifeform: l0l what do they get? tax break ?
decimation: but since nobody is printing crystals, etc they can make $$
decimation: asciilifeform: no mainly through nobody's doing, apparently it is still legal in the us to 'claim' federal land for mining
decimation: land open to this is mainly west of the mississippi
asciilifeform: wait till somebody finds something worth stealing
asciilifeform: then - poof.
decimation: yeah that's a whole episode
decimation: trying to get usg to care about your 'property rights'
asciilifeform: see and i didn't even need to watch it
decimation: in fact, it seems to me that claiming the land is counterproductive, just because it shows 'where to dig'
decimation: although it keeps the big obvious infringers off 'your' land
asciilifeform: why would i care ~which~ thief steals everything from me ?
asciilifeform: what difference if usg, or chinese emperor
decimation: asciilifeform: depends if thief is using hand ax or 300 ton earthmover
decimation: I saw a real-life gold mine the other day, saw a truck carrying 300 tons of rock
decimation: was about 20 ft wide and 40 ft tall
decimation: like house moving down the road
asciilifeform: back to the debug thing (because imho it is very educational) - it is very difficult to sell something which actually solves a problem, on account of the whole meatwot thing
asciilifeform: it is just like the 'programmers' thread from hour ago
asciilifeform: you get to an 'uncanny valley' effect where the better the thing works, the worse off you are, because 'not believable'
decimation: that and everyone copies
asciilifeform: and it can even come to where you have to lie, understate capability of product, even
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00041107 = 11.5922 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: and copies. so you're stuck where you end up selling time on the machine, in somewhat circumscribed use cases
asciilifeform: because if you actually sell the thing full-bore, you are now 'asking money for the sun'
decimation: the apple model is to try to convert your software into hardware
asciilifeform: the apple model works if you're usg
asciilifeform: and have crown franchise to do the whole schmuck-herding thing
asciilifeform: where your idiocies have the force of law
decimation: asciilifeform: kinda related are the eda tools for designing chips
asciilifeform: 100% usg-controlled
asciilifeform: afaik.
decimation: well, they are also useless if you don't have $1mil to get 'note from stalin' to make chips
decimation: and that's for one iteration
asciilifeform: typically takes a dozen or more.
asciilifeform: (iterations)
asciilifeform: at least, once did
decimation: asciilifeform: you might find this guy mildly interesting http://www.theamphour.com/254-an-interview-with-andreas-olofsson-adatevas-ampliative-abacus/
assbot: An Interview with Andreas Olofsson - Adateva's Ampliative Abacus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkakvz )
decimation: he describes this process
decimation: tried to sell 'new processor' idea on kickstarter, ended up hating kickstarter
asciilifeform: afaik those folks are arm licensees
asciilifeform: ergo, did not design 'new processor'
asciilifeform: but just 'riff on old tune'
decimation: asciilifeform: no, they use arm for board i/o control
asciilifeform: hm.
decimation: but they have their own silicon to perform dsp 'MAC' operation
decimation: the guy was a dsp designer and became disillusioned by all the shit that was stuffed into dsp chip
asciilifeform: wake me up when somebody bakes a turing-complete gadget with no winblows used ANYWHERE in the brain-to-silicon road
asciilifeform: (other than chuck moore. who did this, yes. but he is old, and not sure if his thing is even still made)
decimation: apparently it uses opencl program
asciilifeform: then turd firmly cemented in.
decimation: I think chuck moore's 'colorforth' runs on windows
asciilifeform: it runs on whatever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119292 @ 0.00040964 = 48.8668 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: incl. bare z80
asciilifeform: iirc
asciilifeform: point is, he 'licenses' nothing.
decimation: I tried to use it once, confusing as hell and also barely documented
asciilifeform: 100% own-code
asciilifeform: right, why document when you know all of it
asciilifeform: because 1 user.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00041054 = 17.5916 BTC [+]
decimation: yeah the same podcast interviewed vic antonic fellow, who was serb who made his own 8-bit computer back in the 80's
asciilifeform: i have no idea what funds 'greenarrays'
asciilifeform: perhaps it's his personal coin from sofa cushions.
asciilifeform: the silicon equivalent of 'vanity press authors'
decimation: he said that he felt when writing anything higher-level than assembly, he feels like the code 'isn't his own'
asciilifeform: and he's right.
decimation: asciilifeform: the greenarrays site seems to imply they are in production
decimation: who knows how long they will last before they dry up and blow away
asciilifeform: who buys, last i saw, was a mystery
asciilifeform: perhaps mircea_popescu, to run his bitcoind-in-forth
asciilifeform: perhaps some other mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: ('not shakespeare, but man by the same name')
decimation: probably some arm of usg
asciilifeform: if usg, probably just buying it to sink in the ocean
decimation: nah, probably because someone who knew what they were doing made it work
decimation: now usg is stuck forever
asciilifeform: like symbolics lispm.
decimation: precisely
asciilifeform: (there's one lab at ft. something-or-other that has ~eternal~ support contract with symbolics co.)
decimation: usg 'collects' technology in exactly this way
asciilifeform: this is public.
decimation: mainly through its defense-contract departments like lockheed, etc
trinque: asciilifeform: it just clicked into place that these computers are precisely those field radios, as you pointed out.
asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if archaeologists ever turn up a 'greenarrays' in usg gear
asciilifeform: but stranger things have happened
decimation: asciilifeform: the parallella guy was complaining that fpgas have 'eaten' the dsp market
asciilifeform: of course. whole point of dsp was for 'annoyingly custom' problems
decimation: and he did confirm that it costs about $1m to do a chip rev, if you go through the fab's preferred 'agents'
decimation: apparently his eda tools were a special 'deal' for startups, with the understanding that he pays later
asciilifeform: the other things, that $m is pure sunk cost if what you get in the post is a dud that doesn't even power
asciilifeform: which is not unheard of
decimation: yep, he did 4 revs
decimation: tried to simulate on fpga as best as he could
decimation: apparently they make massive 64-way fgpa boards to simulate a full chip
asciilifeform: more.
asciilifeform: up to 'refrigerator' size
decimation: which cost ~$100k themselves
decimation: or more
asciilifeform: 100k is 'cheap'
asciilifeform: multi-$m is normal
asciilifeform: plus 'support'
asciilifeform: not really sold in the usual sense. more of a lease, like the old ibm mainframes
decimation: and note that doesn't help you completely with silicon, as you have pointed out before
asciilifeform: and god help you if your thing has to interact with components that you can't simulate (because you didn't design them, and what, other vendor is going to share its logic? dream)
decimation: plus third party 'ip cores'
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: the whole 'chip business' is in many ways ~inherently usgizing~
asciilifeform: because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ideally - a scam directly on the folks who print money
decimation: yeah he said that his business is very difficult because any kind of processing that he could do with his chip - can be done with a specialized asic
asciilifeform: why would folks who print money buy a device for saving a little money ?
asciilifeform: the basic dilemma here
decimation: so for any kind of an open standard - it is impossible for 'generic' solution to beat specialized asic
decimation: thus, closed-turd asic eats everything
asciilifeform: only thing it can beat it on is cost, and the folks who give a fuck re: cost can't afford ~it~ either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48017 @ 0.00040741 = 19.5626 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: it's the hardware equivilant for the software phenomenon - first turd to market wins
decimation: hardware in general makes so little money it's a wonder anyone even bothers
asciilifeform: because it is necessary to enable other rackets
asciilifeform: 'wintel' gets to exist for strictly, strictly that
decimation: yeah, good point
decimation: it becomes a vanity project for those who can print money
decimation: which is pretty much silicon valley
asciilifeform: this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover. ☟︎
decimation: yeah and the 'die shrink' has only made things worse
asciilifeform: ic put the mega-org (in practice, arm of the state) in the driver's seat in much the same way as nukes once did (if you ask mircea_popescu) or still do
asciilifeform: even ~neglecting die shrink~
asciilifeform: no one makes 'intel 4004' in their kitchen any more than he can make 'pentium'
decimation: yeah, it is a real problem for society when you literally need 10's to 100's of $bil to even try to 'make new ideas'
decimation: so everyone derps in playground that can be had for $1k
asciilifeform: in practice, it means that, e.g., cpu world is as conservative as ancient egypt
asciilifeform: where archs that would look entirely familiar to folks in 1960s are still considered 'state of the art'
asciilifeform: because literally no one can afford to take a risk
decimation: asciilifeform: nearly all the 'evolution' in modern cpus can be considered to be reincarnating things ibm did in the 60's
asciilifeform: esp. given as in '80s, 'plenty of folks risked, they all died'
asciilifeform: yes, because they did not invent monetize-consumer-chumps as the mega-weapon
decimation: asciilifeform: there's a similar effect in the space industry now adays
decimation: http://spacenews.com/viasats-dankberg-unfazed-by-mega-constellation-hoopla/ < ViaSat Chief Executive Mark D. Dankberg said in a conference call with investors. ?There?s a question of whether making hundreds or thousands of satellites is a feature or a bug.?
assbot: ViaSat’s Dankberg Unfazed by Mega-Constellation Hoopla ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkc5c7 )
asciilifeform: decimation: the sat folks are attempting a kind of chumpatron where 'let's build tiny sats that last 6 months'
decimation: oneweb is trying to make mega-constellation of leo sats for 'free internets fer all!'
asciilifeform: how this wins, other than by scamming usg, is unclear to me
decimation: viasat guy is pointing out that everyone who has tried - failed
asciilifeform: the actual economics of launches (and the basic tech) haven't changed in decades
decimation: http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/qualcomm-teams-branson-oneweb-satellite-venture-spacex-ceo-pursues-rival-co/2015-01-18 < no oneweb is scaming Branson
assbot: Qualcomm teams with Branson on OneWeb satellite venture as SpaceX CEO pursues rival constellation - FierceWirelessTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkc8EI )
asciilifeform: there was a brief time in '90s when 'discount' launches using repurposed ru nukes on subs were to be had
asciilifeform: but this was not a sufficiently 'mass' phenomenon to make a real difference
asciilifeform: and - afaik - they're through
decimation: http://www.wsj.com/articles/greg-wylers-oneweb-satellite-internet-company-secures-funding-1421278832 < "OneWeb Ltd. said it had secured funding from Richard Branson?s Virgin Group and Qualcomm Inc. for a planned Internet service powered by a constellation of 648 satellites."
assbot: Greg Wyler’s OneWeb Satellite-Internet Company Secures Funding - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkcf37 )
decimation: 648!
asciilifeform: (repurposed ~rockets~ rather than nuke per se, yes)
asciilifeform: usg scam
decimation: nope, not usg
decimation: http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/06/15/oneweb-selects-airbus-to-build-900-internet-satellites/
assbot: OneWeb selects Airbus to build 900 Internet satellites | Spaceflight Now ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkchbl )
asciilifeform: ultimately they are gunning for u.s. state dept (yes) funding
decimation: euroscam
asciilifeform: 'internet for d1ss1d3ntz1111!!!111'
decimation: same idea though
asciilifeform: perhaps i'm thinking of a previous iteration of this sc4m
asciilifeform: perhaps somebody ~else~ is the mark this time
decimation: "An 840-satellite constellation named Teledesic went bust in 2002 before its first launch, even with the backing of Bill Gates, cell phone tycoon Craig McCaw and Saudi Arabian Prince Alwaleed bin Talal."
decimation: maybe you are thinking of iridium
decimation: which I think is now actually owned by usg
asciilifeform: important to remember that sat constellation is not a permanent animal in any sense
asciilifeform: more like 'sand painting'
decimation: well, especially leo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00040636 = 19.5459 BTC [-]
decimation: atmospheric drag takes sats down
decimation: but you don't want to be outside leo either, because of the radiation
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: wherever you put it, it dies after ~decade, max
decimation: like our recent angry sunspot has demonstrated
decimation: asciilifeform: nope http://ww2.amsat.org/?page_id=1031 < apparently hams still use a satellite launched in 1974
assbot: AO-7 | AMSAT-NA ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkcviE )
asciilifeform: neato
decimation: it's mostly broken, but sometimes the batteries unshort and you can get hemisephric comms
asciilifeform: wonder what it's made of
asciilifeform: vacuum valves ?
decimation: it's pretty simple
decimation: also I think both 'voyager' probes are still functional
decimation: although nearly useless because of the decay in their radiothermal units
asciilifeform: i bet a good share of the scrap metal floating about in space is 'functional' by this definition
asciilifeform: as in, some portion still 'works'
decimation: yeah probably
asciilifeform: but 'usable for the purpose for which was built' - different matter.
decimation: yeah it's sop to overdesign satellites and expect failure
asciilifeform: ... and this is just to get the 5-8 y. expected life.
decimation: which is why it's amusing that the current generation thinks that launching smartphones into space is a great idea
asciilifeform: great idea if usg pays.
decimation: or some $bil chumper
asciilifeform: no one in natoreich has so much as smelled $bil except by mercy of the crown. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17822 @ 0.00040558 = 7.2282 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: yes, in branson's case it was performing 'regulatory arbitrage' on euro airline regulations
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65517 @ 0.00040361 = 26.4433 BTC [-]
phf: asciilifeform: you might find this interesting http://glyf.org/tmp/bastard-delay.png. red dots are bastards when they are finally accepted, green dots are corresponding failed attempts
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6TBsE )
asciilifeform: phf: very interesting, and probably deserves to be posted to therealbitcoin mailinglist.
decimation: phf: neat
asciilifeform: (at present everyone who reads it, also reads #b-a, but this is not guaranteed)
decimation: I did a small sample of this, but not the whole deal
asciilifeform: phf: if you generated this with a custom patch for the beast itself, please share this
decimation: the only solution I can think of is to spoon feed nodes in a 'known good' order
phf: asciilifeform: unfortunately not, parsing the log files
asciilifeform: phf: somewhere we have an anti-debug.log-rollover patch
asciilifeform: but perhaps you did this already yourself.
asciilifeform: decimation: the current 'solution' - patience - also works.
decimation: phf: I made a patch to note from which node each block comes
decimation: it's amusing to watch the thing jump around
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it's certainly not the most pressing problem with bitcoind
asciilifeform: the whole 'one sync partner at a time' thing is also retarded, but trying to do anything about it without bringing back 'bastard cache' is pointless
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108200 @ 0.0003982 = 43.0852 BTC [-] {3}
phf: asciilifeform: i ran into log rollover, and had to restart syncing process from scratch. yet another "convenience" anti feature
asciilifeform: phf: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << zap it
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkdQWK )
asciilifeform: trivial change.
asciilifeform: i probably oughta add a commandline flag for this
asciilifeform: as permanent fixture
asciilifeform: (rollover by default, but can be toggled)
decimation: asciilifeform: in the future, it would be useful to set the 'buffer size' for incoming txns in the conf file
asciilifeform: ^ whoever wants to do this, it'd be a good thing
asciilifeform: decimation: mempool size ?
decimation: mapOrphanTransactions?
asciilifeform: gone
asciilifeform: and i see no reason to ever bring it back..
asciilifeform: (anyone?)
Vexual: cunt runs a tight ship
decimation: ah I see, was looking at earlier patch
asciilifeform: Vexual: ship runs tight cunt
decimation: asciilifeform: so does the tx pool consist strictly of those txns which originate from previous block only?
asciilifeform: blocks.
decimation: yeah, previous valid blocks.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-06-2015#1154352 << see also. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-06-2015 00:42:31; asciilifeform: mod6: he rebroadcasts until finds a node that can accept it without 'jam tomorrow'
asciilifeform: yes,
asciilifeform: .
asciilifeform: key point here is that anything without a hard antecedent ~on disk now~ could equally well be random garbage
decimation: yeah
asciilifeform: asking node to accept maybe-verifiable-as-not-rubbish-tomorrow is a jam-tomorrow.
decimation: so when new block is found, and the new block only contains a subset of the existing tx pool
decimation: do the 'non-blocked' txns remain?
asciilifeform: remain where?
decimation: in mempool
asciilifeform: whose mempool
decimation: well, imma node, I hear txns, they all come from previous blocks
decimation: a new block is found, some of the txns in memory are now contained in the new block
decimation: some are not
asciilifeform: they sit, yes
asciilifeform: where would they go.
decimation: also flush
decimation: if you failed to make it in a block, your txn doesn't exist, resend
asciilifeform: out of general principle, ought to retransmit until 'blockified'
decimation: indeed
asciilifeform: because mempool is by nature ephemeral
decimation: thus, node may flush txn at its pleasure
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: by, say, turning off mains plug
decimation: indeed
decimation: or by setting a conf flag for 'how long does txn sit'
asciilifeform: aha.
decimation: or a conf flag for sorting txns by value for a miner
asciilifeform: i will confess that i've always found the whole 'mempool' thing to be a dodge ☟︎
asciilifeform: why is everybody stuck playing cache for the miners
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34370 @ 0.00041082 = 14.1199 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: as in, why does non-miner node even bother with txns?
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: yeah it's kinda masterbatory
asciilifeform: not even sure that it was done for cache, rather than out of some misguided notion of 'anonymization'
asciilifeform: (like the idiot 'change addr' thing)
decimation: asciilifeform: one can imagine an entire new 'metaprotocol' for sufficiently pleasing a miner to accept your txn
asciilifeform: what's wrong with 'fee'
decimation: nothin'
decimation: but it would be nice for the miner to send a polite rejection 'add yer fee' ☟︎
decimation: this will become explict at some point anyway
asciilifeform: why would they bother to answer ?
decimation: I guess miner 'speaks with sword'
asciilifeform: responsibility of sender of tx to learn what 'going rate' is
decimation: I suppose they can find through out-of-band comms with miner or by 'did it make it into block'
asciilifeform: not sure why any communication other than 'fee' and 'made into block or not' is necessary here
decimation: so n00bs know how much 'fee' to add
decimation: a minor learning curve
asciilifeform: they can look at recently blockified tx-en
decimation: indeed.
decimation: at any rate, making the reference client attractive to miners would be wise
asciilifeform: can't help but wonder if any serious miner will ever touch what he himself did not write
asciilifeform: sorta like mircea_popescu's magical private bitcoind
asciilifeform: why would a 'serious' fella 1) use anything but what himself wrote 2) share so much as a word of it with anyone
asciilifeform: much to lose - little to gain.
decimation: because lazy ☟︎
decimation: knows more about how to pile asics than how to program bitcoind ☟︎
decimation: these skills are not the same 'ting' as taleb wrote
asciilifeform does not have 'intel dept.' and cannot comment re: what miners do, aside from the trivially observable
decimation: asciilifeform: why would ulbricht keep detailed records of his incriminating evidence on his laptop? ☟︎
asciilifeform: decimation: because retardation? ☟︎
decimation: exactly. ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally, prior to the fall of ulbricht, i entertained the notion that sr is run by 'serious person'
decimation: heh me too
asciilifeform: on custom logic, etc.
decimation: in retrospect, using 'tor' was a giveaway
asciilifeform: but folks who actually ~saw~ sr alive tell me that this was always loony.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, for instance, sr also ran escrow service
punkman: and hedging service
decimation: asciilifeform: actually what amazes me more is that kim-jung-il doesn't run his own 'silk road' ☟︎
decimation: err, kim jung-un
punkman: maybe he does
punkman: there's like 3 dozen of them
asciilifeform: between the coke, whores, and 'warcraft' - when ?
decimation: heh
decimation: yeah, but dpr has already shown how to annoy usg
decimation: of course the opm hack did about 1000x more damage to usg
asciilifeform: kju 'annoys usg' in strictly-circumscribed kabuki defined by his elders.
decimation: if only to make it obvious that usg employees can't trust usg to keep them safe
funkenstein_: i'm not in the know, but always assumed various usg hat wearing agencies mostly competed with other usg hat wearing agencies
decimation: yeah he is just the crazy guy who yells at people until he is placated with rice
asciilifeform: mr mold's term was 'muppet state'
asciilifeform: muppet can 'bite' muppeteer, but to a point.
decimation: yeah, I think yarvin's 'state vs dod' proxy wars make a fair bit of sense
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << aaaand we've past 1+M.
asciilifeform reaches for gear shift lever
punkman hits 500 error
decimation: asciilifeform: are you still feeding gpg keys into it?
asciilifeform: decimation: not as of 2 min. ago
mircea_popescu: just reload punkman
asciilifeform: and yes, sqlite was not meant for this
decimation: how many sks keys exist?
decimation: heh no not really
asciilifeform: ~1.3M rsa-containing keys
asciilifeform: https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wv-57.jpg?w=580&h=345
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6WLg1 )
mircea_popescu: what was sqlite meant for ?
asciilifeform: stamp collections ?
decimation: no, actually it was originall designed to be wedged into a usg radar system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45014 @ 0.00039938 = 17.9777 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: i thought stamp collectors all use mysql
decimation: "Hipp was designing software used aboard guided missile destroyers, which were originally based on HP-UX with an IBM Informix database back-end. The design goals of SQLite were to allow the program to be operated without installing a database management system or requiring a database administrator."
decimation: !up Vexual
decimation: ^ guy had to wedge relational database into ancient unix shit
decimation: without db admin, or thinking person involved
mircea_popescu: also, branson specialises in being scammed.
decimation: yeah he also invested in that 'space tourism' loltron
mircea_popescu: this "without installing a database management system or requiring a database administrator." reads to me like "car that can be used without breaks"
mircea_popescu: sure, for as long as it can be used it can be used
mircea_popescu: after which...
Vexual: manupause
decimation: yeah, point of db admin is to actually think about how to arrange data
mircea_popescu: decimation isn't he the original "how to make a small fortune ? start with a big one" ?
decimation: heh yeah
mircea_popescu: music label. went to shit.
mircea_popescu: airline. went to shit.
mircea_popescu: "space tourism". shit.
mircea_popescu: you name it, he turned it to shit. shitranson.
Vexual: teeths are shiny
asciilifeform: wake me up when he has problems making rent
mircea_popescu: if they stacked shit that high he could have a twin brother, go whiterafting with the bitcoin godfather pair.
mircea_popescu: i don't get something. what does having more satellites help ? you still have the same problems of intsat whether there's ten or ten thousand.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41100 @ 0.00039603 = 16.2768 BTC [-]
decimation: apparently his airline is still going to shit
asciilifeform: it 'helps' in the sense of (as they hope) setting up money siphon from usg
asciilifeform: to constantly send up 'disposable' boxes into leo
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175593 << i was worth > 1 bil earlier this year i'll have you know! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:12:48; asciilifeform: no one in natoreich has so much as smelled $bil except by mercy of the crown.
asciilifeform: 1b in spendables.
asciilifeform: as in, turkeys.
mircea_popescu: and then mom asked "in what currency" and i said "doesn't matter"
mircea_popescu: turkeys are "spendables" ?!
decimation: mircea_popescu: 'more satellites' is needed because leo
decimation: low earth satellites can only 'see' a small fraction of the earth
decimation: and therefore need lots for coverage
decimation: the reason why you want leo is: latency
mircea_popescu: decimation ok, sure. but all you need is one up. having to up helps maybe some. 200 ? marginal utility decays pretty fast
mircea_popescu: would seem to me.
decimation: speed of light delay from earth to geo and back is intolerable
decimation: no, do the orbital math
decimation: leo is only visible for a few minutes at a time
decimation: a few times per day
mircea_popescu: oh so it's actually needed for coverage
mircea_popescu: aha
decimation: so you a continuous parade to maintain coverage yes
mircea_popescu: basically, if you're gonna do leo telecoms it's either 1k or go home
decimation: yep
mircea_popescu: ic.
decimation: and leo is the only answer to the latency issue
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: and your parade won't stay ordered
decimation: nope
mircea_popescu: so this is basically a continual launch deal.
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << aaaand we're back.
decimation: exactly
mircea_popescu: nice contract to have.
decimation: and each satellite needs to maintain its orbit, etc
asciilifeform: nah
asciilifeform: these are 'breadboxes'
asciilifeform: no thrusters.
asciilifeform: (at least, last i saw this scam)
decimation: using fuel or magnetorquers
asciilifeform: whole point of the 'microsats'
asciilifeform: no mechanicals
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would suspect they'd have a minimal sail or something
asciilifeform: not the last time i saw this.
asciilifeform: plain cubes.
mircea_popescu: just give them a little assymetry allow them some limited self-righting
mircea_popescu: otherwise this smacks of insanity.
asciilifeform: usganity
decimation: no they have magnets to orient themselves with earth's magnetic field
decimation: but this isn't a simple matter either, obviously
mircea_popescu: anyway, nioce contract to have. basically, it's a "build this many launchers and fire them continuously forever"
asciilifeform: kinda useless if couldn't align
asciilifeform: (horn gotta point down)
decimation: asciilifeform: aye, that's why you also need to align
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ~all~ satellite business reduces to that kind of contract
asciilifeform: only question is - how often
mircea_popescu: this seems pretty often
mircea_popescu: both because drag and headcount.
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: how? star tracker: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/podcasting/StarTrackers.html
assbot: NASA - Star Trackers Lights the Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWn9l )
mircea_popescu: you get 100x as many sats with 0.01x lifespan. 10kx !
asciilifeform: which is why i said, these folks are trying to push scam to a kind of logical conclusion
decimation: yeah the oneweb thing is about an order of magnitude bigger at trying to do something that has failed every time it has been tried
asciilifeform: i predict that eventually they will justify it with talk of 'railguns'
asciilifeform: which will launch microsats 'for free', 'any day now'
mircea_popescu: i dun see why not.
mircea_popescu: they do launch jets off carriers atm
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXtsGAkyeIo nazi vid got flagged
mircea_popescu: not free of course. but cheaper than steam
asciilifeform: not impossible to build hardware that eats 500g
decimation: the 'why not' is the massive acceleration you have to give with reasonable sized guns
mircea_popescu: faster charge at any rate.
asciilifeform: but costs.
decimation: exactly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's reasonable sized ? could be a mile long for all it matters.
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: mile long vacuum ?
mircea_popescu: just think you're making a bridge
asciilifeform: or mile of atmosphere
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: ;;google hochdruckpumpe
gribble: Common Rail Hochdruckpumpe Animation - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbYsVDD0PI>; V-3 cannon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-3_cannon>; Fortress of Mimoyecques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_of_Mimoyecques>
mircea_popescu: "discouraged atmosphere", soft vacuum
decimation: for one thing you would need a massive capacitor bank
mircea_popescu: so you would.
mircea_popescu: the rail gun is the necessary next step after the cern
mircea_popescu: basically the same hardware involved.
asciilifeform: not physically impossible, just very gnarly.
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: which is what makes for a decent engineering project.
asciilifeform: at any rate, actually building it would run contrary to the spirit of the scam
mircea_popescu isn't much into scams.
asciilifeform: that money 'could be snorted'
mircea_popescu: but the rail gun is more substantial than most shit getting funded.
asciilifeform: i can think of 1,001 'substantial'
decimation: it's probably more realistic to launch small chemical rockets factory-style
decimation: like the nazis did, more-or-less
mircea_popescu: decimation dirtier.
decimation: sure, but not a mega-project
mircea_popescu: but this is a mega project.
mircea_popescu: that's the predicate.
mircea_popescu: we want 1k+ launch events each day, and we want a total of 100 tons shipped upstairs a day.
asciilifeform: i bet something like lensed explosive would beat railgun
asciilifeform: with similar engineering constraints
decimation: asciilifeform: or the 'drop nukes behind steel shell' method
mircea_popescu: dirty.
mircea_popescu: http://glyf.org/tmp/bastard-delay.png << great graph thx.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWTnL )
decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/bent_flyvbjerg.html > re: megaprojects: " Guest: No, it's actually worse than that. Nine out of ten have costs that are underestimated. Nine out of 10 have benefits that are overestimated, and 9 out of 10 have schedules that are underestimated. So, when you combine those, it's actually a very small fraction of projects that both are done to budgets, to schedule, and deliver the promised benefit
assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWTnU )
mircea_popescu: i dun think this yet happened.
mircea_popescu: what's the project that was on time on budget and delivered ?
mircea_popescu: hoover dam was overrun. big dig was... heh.
mircea_popescu: pick it. which ?
decimation: well, for megaprojects ( > $1 bils) the answer is almost none
Vexual: new panama expansion
asciilifeform: that schmuck who hanged self from elevator.
asciilifeform: said - delivered.
asciilifeform: on time!
mircea_popescu: if you ask him it was prolly late
decimation: he points out that the new guggenheim museum in bilbao spain delievered
mircea_popescu: or early, i guess.
asciilifeform wonders about the choice of elevator. gotta have been like those old pirate hangings, with hang/unhang/hang/unhang sequence
asciilifeform: thing goes up, down
decimation: hang from elastic climbing rope?
asciilifeform: http://jessamyn.com/barth/colby.html << as described here!
asciilifeform: (classic of engl. literature)
asciilifeform: 'hanging on bouncyball'
decimation: the megaprojects guy describes the failure of the sydney opera house: "The cost overrun was 1400%. And as always when cost overruns happen, the architect was blamed, and his work situation became so uncomfortable, he found that he actually left the project in the middle, with his family, and flew out of Australia, never to return." ☟︎
decimation: "That means that we don't have any other buildings. It's equivalent to taking Frank Gehry, who is considered the world's most famous architect by now and who is considered to be in the same league as Jørn Utzon regarding doing magic aesthetics and magic buildings. ... That's the cost of the Sydney Opera House. It was not a success; it was a huge failure, in those terms. "
mircea_popescu: i wish to be shown this "magic aesthetics".
decimation: heh
decimation: I knew you would bite on that line
mircea_popescu: afaik the entire thing';s rubbishj, and if you're going to hire fortune tellers, always hire the cheapest.
decimation: what if one fortune teller is amazingly accurate?
asciilifeform: that's like saying 'if going to stot, jump as little as you can'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175664 << it is, and remains, the premiere systematic, actual problem of the protocol. somehow, this will have to be fixed. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:36:15; asciilifeform: i will confess that i've always found the whole 'mempool' thing to be a dodge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thery all deliver the same results.
asciilifeform: same amount of 'lion discouragement' ?
asciilifeform: somebody gotta tell the gazelles this.
mircea_popescu: what lion was discouraged from bilbao ?
asciilifeform: none afaik
mircea_popescu: what, it keeps the muslims orderly in line to raping the spanish hos v 2.0 ?
asciilifeform: picking at the general principle of 'cheapest shaman' observation
mircea_popescu: im unconvinced this is stotting. i don't dispute it could be called that, but then again anything could.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the actual behaviour works in nature. and has its own context. this lacks both those factors.
decimation: and of course, in retrospect everything looks like a good deal: "You should ask the people who actually got to pay for the projects and got to pay the extra sums, whether they are happy about it. Of course, later generations are happy about a project, because they get it for free ride. "
asciilifeform: there is also orlov's 'deer hunter' effect
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175675 << you don't want the bitches talking back. for the obvious reason that if they can, they will, and next you're gonna have voting or some stupidshit like that. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:39:01; decimation: but it would be nice for the miner to send a polite rejection 'add yer fee'
asciilifeform: (which sums to the observation that it is possible to breed people to become a kind of cow)
decimation: are miners slaves or the elite?
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: !b 2 ✂︎
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/07BA2D8.txt )
Vexual: lol
Vexual: pardon
decimation: seems like they are 'commanders of capital' in the classic robber-baron sense
mircea_popescu: hardly.
decimation: what about the pile of asics they gotta buy and feed?
mircea_popescu: what about it ?
asciilifeform: 'Colby asked if he could have a firing squad. No, Howard said, he could not. Howard said a firing squad would just be an ego trip for Colby, the blindfold and last-cigarette bit, and that Colby was in enough hot water already without trying to "upstage" everyone with unnecessary theatrics. Colby said he was sorry, he hadn't meant it that way, he'd take the tree. Tomas crumpled up the gibbet sketches he'd been making, in disgus
asciilifeform: t.'
decimation: as the asic investment gets more expensive, it becomes more centralized and oliogopical
asciilifeform: ^ see also today's asic thread..
decimation: exactly
mircea_popescu: which is why hard forks gotta stay on the table
mircea_popescu: unpleasant as they are.
decimation: what's going to prevent the situation where only two or three miners remain
decimation: and if you want to put a txn on the block, gotta meet their terms
asciilifeform: sorta how working nukes gotta stay on the table
mircea_popescu: if we know this is the case, the blocks change to briock their mining gear.
mircea_popescu: if we don't know this is the case it's not the case.
mircea_popescu: mutually assured anal pain, in the sense they get it.
asciilifeform: 'what is the point of building a doomsday machine if no one is told!' (tm) (r) ('strangelove')
mircea_popescu: "know about it" means something more from physics. "unobservable phenomena are spiritism not physics"
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: (somebody plz tell the 'strings' folks this?!)
mircea_popescu: why, they're cute. everyone watches their "journals" like kitten pics.
asciilifeform: ugh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00039603 = 17.9798 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: thing is, like the old-fashioned proverbial nukefest, above scenario works best as a game-theoretical device
asciilifeform: rather than practice.
asciilifeform: if you even smell the practice - your whole system has failed in a catastrophic way
asciilifeform: (picture if the 'anti-centralization hardfork' were a regular event.)
mircea_popescu: da fuckiung world we live in. viasat has been doing satellites forever. google is a newcomer in the field. spacex is a newcomer in general. yet the viasat ceo has to explain why he, the expert, is doing what he's doing. the newb schmucks aren't expected to explain themselves.
decimation: yeah, it sounds like the turkish government
mircea_popescu: fucking upside down alice in wonderland nonsense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me just point out that the theory of "unavoidable monopoly" has issues. for instance, cabs in buenos aires are still un=united.
mircea_popescu: the reason the us has two parties may have more to do with the indolent stolidity of the usians minds than any rule of nature.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175523 << see also ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:55:27; asciilifeform: this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover.
asciilifeform: ic is fundamentally 'statalizing' tech
asciilifeform: like satellite.
mircea_popescu: for a fundamentally broken people.
asciilifeform: for everyone.
mircea_popescu: not all people react to same tech same way.
decimation: the 'two parties' thing kinda became a convenient foil to distract the masses while the bureaucracy runs things
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175507 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:49:51; asciilifeform: because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another.
asciilifeform: true for ic. not for cab.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform alchemy was not fundamentally the same thing for chinese and italians.
decimation: yeah, but which alchemy turned lead to gold?
mircea_popescu: what is sailing ? and why has the same tech done different things for the dutch, the english, the spanish, and the latins ?
mircea_popescu: decimation none did.
mircea_popescu: both claimed, very similar almost identical things
decimation: yet, ics ... work
decimation: at least to some definition
mircea_popescu: i just went through 5k lines today of how they don't.
mircea_popescu: well which is it.
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc chinese focused more on the immortality thing
asciilifeform: than gold
mircea_popescu: this is correct
mircea_popescu: but in the same way : philosopher's stone bestows wishes
mircea_popescu: yet they wished infinte time not infiniute money.
mircea_popescu: weird huh
asciilifeform: that's what comes from 'stability' as virtue
mircea_popescu: so not all cultures fuck up tech the same way.
decimation: perhaps not, but nobody makes observable ics yet
asciilifeform: ('infinite money' cultures ended up with equally asinine 'growth as virtue')
decimation: I would agree that if we have a few decades with roughly stable ic fab tech, it's likely that 'growth' will come from genuine design differences
decimation: but you still need $bil to make the thing go
asciilifeform: decimation: not if microshit has a seat at the table.
mircea_popescu: it can not have a seat anywhere.
mircea_popescu: stable means just this : no more sv.
decimation: microshit seems to be capitulating to some degree
asciilifeform: 'genuine design difference' ~requires~ burning last 40 yrs.
asciilifeform: not burned? not genuine difference.
mircea_popescu: and people will, once the moore stops.
mircea_popescu: that was the one pacifier of a thousand quashed hopes.
asciilifeform: it stopped in '07.
decimation: yeah, more-or-less
asciilifeform: wake me up when smell burning.
decimation: it might deliever another cycle or two
mircea_popescu: weren't you arguing that it hasn't stopped when i first proposed this ?
decimation: I was
decimation: intel seems to have legitimate tech to go down another halving or so
asciilifeform: fat lot of good, when, e.g., dram, hasn't kept up
mircea_popescu: doubtful, but anyway. it's a question of when.
asciilifeform: not to mention the 'wriggleysgumizations' introduced by the shrinkage ☟︎
asciilifeform: lossy dram cells, 'ssd' rot, etc
decimation: but they are scheduling maybe 2016 for 10 nm, maybe http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-due-in-mid-2016-leaked-roadmap/
assbot: Intel’s 10nm Cannonlake processors due in mid-2016 – leaked roadmap | KitGuru ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBZEp5 )
decimation: note that they are admitting they can't make more than 2 cores without yield issues
mircea_popescu: what's the outlook on what they can make if usg dole dries up ?
asciilifeform: hog harnesses.
mircea_popescu: mmmkay.
mircea_popescu is kinda curious how budget for next year looks, on that score. does "law enforcement" get triple budget and everything else trims or not.
asciilifeform: more than one way to budget
decimation: mircea_popescu: it might all be moot if usg's interest rate ticks up
asciilifeform: even now they're what, 20% privateer ?
asciilifeform: (as in, actually funded by loot)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175691 << this is a very good argument ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:43:54; decimation: because lazy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and they'll be 60% privateer on a tripled budget and it still won't be enough
mircea_popescu: under the very real pressure of a million tiny joe stacks
asciilifeform: enough for what ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, whatever it is they do.
mircea_popescu: "enforce law"
decimation: might as well go to the roman 'decentralized' system
asciilifeform: wake me up when a hundred, much less million, 'stacks'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175705 << not only stupid, but also ignorant. why should he take bitcoin donations ? paypal works fine! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:49:07; decimation: asciilifeform: actually what amazes me more is that kim-jung-il doesn't run his own 'silk road'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's been over a hundred this year.
mircea_popescu: there's been about two a week.
decimation: well, if you take the megaprojects guy's arguments at face value, the average megaproject has a 99% chance of failure
asciilifeform: of some schmuck shoots other schmuck? sure
asciilifeform: of schmuck vs usg proper ?
decimation: and considering that every usg agency is effectively a megaproject, usg operates on maybe 1% of its outlays
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my words were "the very real pressure of a million tiny joe stacks"
mircea_popescu: decimation that's a point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33950 @ 0.00041193 = 13.985 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: a filthy orc knifing a policeman, or similar, is not a 'joe stack.' in my mind, 'stack' is a fella who inflicts disproportionate damage
decimation: my point being that 'services delivered' by usg are completely unrelated to the money spent
asciilifeform: as in, demolishes a 100m whatever
asciilifeform: (recall the janitor who burned down a nuke sub?)
decimation: asciilifeform: there's a similar story with the recently-released files on the metro 'smoke incident'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point of the pressure is not the damage. merely, civilians that dun like da police.
mircea_popescu: and if i recall you protested that joe stack did not do any damage at all, let alone disproportionate
mircea_popescu: you really gotta pick some sort of an orthodoxy, you're making my head spin. which is it
asciilifeform: herr stack ~did~ burn down an office hell (albeit empty)
mircea_popescu: so which is it!
mircea_popescu: alf can't commit. "well, depends. in this circumstance, it is, in that it isn't, whadda ya want from me! peter pan over here, always young an' happy!"
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: hehe
mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm having the world's worst strawberries. they are the size of plums, quite red except the part under the leaf is plain white... what the fuck is with this world.
punkman: seems plausible that orc with knife cost them more than joe
mircea_popescu: crunchy and everything. oh, the strawberries of mine youth...
decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/ntsb-begins-two-days-of-public-hearings-into-fatal-metro-incident/2015/06/22/1884da66-190e-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html < metro is run entirely by orcs, who cannot do anything as complicated as reversing a single train
assbot: What Metro train operator heard in tunnel: ‘Yelling, screaming, kicking and banging’ - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1BC0KkQ )
asciilifeform: punkman: question apparently is 'who runs out first?'
asciilifeform: police? or 'antipolice'
mircea_popescu: punkman i can readily see asciilifeform argue that moreover joe stack was part of an obscure bezzlatron to provide office refurbishment at a profit. why not rite.
punkman: they are both in debt already
decimation: the number of "vale're whites" who work for usg far outweighs the number of joe stacks
punkman: my strawberries have a bit of white there too, but this batch is good, smells/tastes like strawberry rather than water balloon
mircea_popescu: i just don't recall ever seeing this, white on a strawberry, as a kid. that's more of a framboise thing
mircea_popescu: however you call em
decimation: heh raspberry
asciilifeform ate ~REAL~ strawberries not long ago
mircea_popescu: ah no.
asciilifeform: grown by colleague
mircea_popescu: wtf is it. the tiny strawberry cousin
decimation: alpine strawberries?
trinque: asciilifeform: we've got 'em outside the front door
trinque: way smaller than these giant watery things, but very tasty
trinque: ...and all red
decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria_vesca
assbot: Fragaria vesca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJrkaW )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81050 @ 0.00041197 = 33.3902 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ^vesca aha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: земляника
decimation: !up fourhunderdtypes
fourhunderdtypes: i am a little bit of a strawberryfan
mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/phuctored << 64!
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJruix )
asciilifeform: and where's the rss thing, aha
asciilifeform: b0rk3d ?
mircea_popescu: guy's busy pimpin'.
asciilifeform: eh.
fourhunderdtypes: buried to the bingo boingos in some boss soil
decimation: vexual: why do you aussies always adopt the most fascist usg fantasies?
mircea_popescu: decimation anyway, why the driver indictment ? seems he wasn't allowed to back out
fourhunderdtypes: i can gine -10 fucks on usg
decimation: no I'm indicting the station controller
decimation: who after-the-fact claimed that she told him to back out
fourhunderdtypes: i forget
fourhunderdtypes: u troll surely
decimation: but nobody seems to remember that
decimation: "Incredibly, the second train?s driver, Connie Conner, proceeded into L?Enfant Plaza even after she heard her counterpart in the train a few hundred feet ahead asking for clearance to reverse course and return to the station. A controller says she twice ordered Ms. Conner to stop her train short of the station; Ms. Conner denies it."
fourhunderdtypes: can u dumb it down a little?
mircea_popescu: ah
decimation: "In a separate debriefing, however, ROCC controller Vale?re White contradicted Conner, saying that she did give that order. ?I go, to 510: ?510, stop your train.? I said it to her twice.?"
fourhunderdtypes: oh, right, yes, we're all drunk all day
fourhunderdtypes: and everything coasts 2 million dollars
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00041226 = 13.8107 BTC [+]
fourhunderdtypes: it gets uber cinfusing
decimation: and your construction is shit
fourhunderdtypes: nope
fourhunderdtypes: we miht fail on nukesub, but everything simpler is easy
decimation: but mainly your government seems to want to control the internet
decimation: which is highly amusing
fourhunderdtypes: oh, yeha
fourhunderdtypes: thatll fail
fourhunderdtypes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HLY1NTe04M fuck republicans
fourhunderdtypes: i want my shit for free
decimation: why would changing australia into a republic change anything important?
fourhunderdtypes: if i dont marry a foreigner, im not a torrorist
fourhunderdtypes: yeah i dunno, i don't vote
decimation: I heard that marrying a white girl is the same as selling an abo gasoline
decimation: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/712/396/b9a.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJskeV )
fourhunderdtypes: lol
mircea_popescu: wut, bushwhacker humour not appreciated in the west end ?! WHO KNEW!!!
fourhunderdtypes: hey i could make a ballet
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6v9czop681qg8ft2o1_1280.jpg << i confess the thigh ankle leather wraps are a splendid idea.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJszqt )
fourhunderdtypes: the morrocan hash is heavy tho
mircea_popescu: s/ankle/wrist/ anyway
fourhunderdtypes likes this
cazalla: decimation, i should do a voice over youtube video for that meme
decimation: heh yeah I thought of you
fourhunderdtypes: fuck the meme, see the balet
cazalla: something in this manner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gokBHXc5HaU
assbot: It's called Bitcoin, dad - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJsMKb )
decimation: hehe
fourhunderdtypes: yeah thats well and well, but ...
mircea_popescu: !up chewie_
chewie_: !up
fourhunderdtypes: mmm goat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9150 @ 0.00041226 = 3.7722 BTC [+]
fourhunderdtypes: " of the crooked timber of humanity no correct thing was ever made. " < this mustbe in my ballet
punkman: !up eatinstrawberry
punkman: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-court-california-raisins-20150623-story.html
assbot: High court rules against raisin board in dispute over setting aside crops to prop up prices - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJtMhm )
cazalla: eatinstrawberry, ya having a few drinks there vexual?
eatinstrawberry: never
cazalla: while eating muh chicken wings for lunch, i was tempted to go and get some rum but i fell asleep instead.. change of heart once i woke up
eatinstrawberry: oh noes
eatinstrawberry: u felloff the wagns?
mircea_popescu: anbd in today's installment we find that online ad networks are positively fucking insane. the kabuki seems to be, "we serve up some html heavy pages of random nouns and you sign up".
cazalla: nah, still sober (3 1/2 weeks)
mircea_popescu: let aloine the "do you motherfuckers take bitcoin" point, no specs are offered whatsoever. i can't see what fucking sites they run
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would i care to deal with such idiots ? if they had the golden goose, why would i ? they don';t know enough about selling to sell me on their own fucking salesmanship already
eatinstrawberry: u take bitcoin right?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.0004067 = 11.1843 BTC [-]
cazalla: mircea_popescu, you can take the boy out of romania...
mircea_popescu: button, "advertisers" spawns " Overview Audiences Engagement Performance"
mircea_popescu: what the motherfucking hell is this ?!
mircea_popescu: http://exponential.com/advertisers-overview/ << what the shit ?
assbot: For Advertisers - Exponential ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJulaZ )
eatinstrawberry: lol
mircea_popescu: they keep changing names every thirty weeks too, like any internet scammer.
cazalla: eatinstrawberry, try and use "romanian" and "paypal" in a legitimate sentence lol
eatinstrawberry: fucking easy
mircea_popescu: cazalla you know i had an account for a decade +, which ~I~ closed ?
mircea_popescu: business verified, the works.
eatinstrawberry: ive got overt varieties
cazalla: yeah i know where to buy those too :P
mircea_popescu: heck, i'm on the record buying bitcoins with it.
mircea_popescu: how about that. find someone who can buy btc with paypal eh.
cazalla: from someone in your wot?
eatinstrawberry: shall i count to 100?
mircea_popescu: !gettrust rammerhammer mircea_popescu
assbot: Trust relationship from user rammerhammer to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=rammerhammer&to=mircea_popescu | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mircea_popescu/
cazalla: the amusing part about this, to me anyway, is that /r/bitcoin often promotes bitcoin for use in such countries because of paypal's antics
mircea_popescu: the funny thing to me is that the general internet population assumes nationality = residence.
mircea_popescu: lulz of all time. peasants online.
mircea_popescu: !up fromphuctor
cazalla: on basis i have never left the shores of australia.. i reluctantly agree
eatinstrawberry: whaa?
mircea_popescu: "Maximize your unsold inventory" herp.
mircea_popescu: pulsepoint doesn't even load.
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck the world's coming to an end over here. nobody seems to be doing any work anymore.
fromphuctor: hello
fromphuctor: do I have a voice?
mircea_popescu: "Our Solutions Leadership About Us Careers News Contact" who the fuck thought this is how you do it ? it's almost like the soviet butcher, "we're the advertising shop, we don't have publishers. fish is what they don't have in the shop down the street" ☟︎☟︎
cazalla: also amusing they related a bitcoin transaction with fraud when it is really the antithesis to that sorta thing (except humble bundle who rumour is got carded big time for gaming codes using coinbase)
mircea_popescu: yes. what did you want to say fromphuctor ?
eatinstrawberry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5AQIlmM0I
assbot: Flight of the Conchords Ep2 She's So Hot - Boom - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJuDP6 )
eatinstrawberry: fuck i got assbot
fromphuctor: I'm unable to submit my GPG key online to Phuctor
mircea_popescu: cazalla yes, very amusing how the stupid brain doesn't merely fail to work, but manages to work contrary t osense. you'd think this has to be engineered, but apparently iot comes naturally
mircea_popescu: out of bad strawberries. ☟︎
fromphuctor: it's an as-of-yet unpublished GPG key because I wanted to make sure it's not easily factorable
fromphuctor: it's quite a large key with a few subkeys, total upload size is around 13K
mircea_popescu: fromphuctor well atm it's working through a lengthy list of keys already extant on the sks servers.
mircea_popescu: so what's it say ?
fromphuctor: HTTP 500
mircea_popescu: insist a few times
fromphuctor: okay, I'll keep sending
fromphuctor: I figured it was either failing due to the key being too large or due to it not being published anywhere
mircea_popescu: it's most likely failure due to the fact that the apache bit is last in line at the cpu through
fromphuctor: so it's most likely that phuctor's just too loaded right now?
fromphuctor: gotcha
mircea_popescu: it's been too loaded for months as it cuts through millions of 'em
fromphuctor: is there code I can run locally to attempt to factor it and save Phuctor's CPU time?
mircea_popescu: well, an implementation of gcd is what you need, and the P
mircea_popescu: which is like half a gig by now iirc
fromphuctor: gcd as in the math function? does it exist in a binary?
fromphuctor: and do I need P if I don't particularly care about collisions?
mircea_popescu: uh
mircea_popescu: ok, you've winded me.
fromphuctor: sorry :-|
eatinstrawberry: who?
mircea_popescu: a) if you're looking for binaries it's unlikely your key is your weak point ; b) gcd is an algorithm, i guess you could call it a function. "greatest common divisor" ; c) P is at the core of this, as it looks for MUTUAL divisors
fromphuctor: I'm mainly trying to determine if I have generated a key with bad entropy leading to bad primes meaning easy factorability
mircea_popescu: you could run a probabilistic test on your own machine for your own modulus. if you have a good rng this usually woirks,
mircea_popescu: but it's what gpg does anyway
fromphuctor: so Phuctor's main advantage is that it retains the information it has gained by going through all the other keys?
mircea_popescu: exactly.
fromphuctor: gotcha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00041514 = 12.4542 BTC [+] {4}
fromphuctor: so I don't gain much by just running it locally without P
mircea_popescu: well, again, gpg has a probabilistic test for primality baked in.
mircea_popescu: but nothing keeps you from simplytrying to factor your own modulus on your own machine
mircea_popescu: you could not use gcd for this, however, as gcd is an algorithm to find shared factors, not simply factors. you'd have to have something to compare against.
fromphuctor: alright, sleeves need to be rolled up. I'll probably have to dig into ASN.1, extract the public keys, and then try factoring them with a kludged together Python script
mircea_popescu: !s pgpdump
assbot: 8 results for 'pgpdump' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pgpdump
fromphuctor: better, nice
fromphuctor: in the meantime, I'll probably script something that sends my file to Phuctor repeatedly until I stop getting an error.
fromphuctor: provided that doesn't get me flagged.
mircea_popescu: jsut send it a few times, eh.
fromphuctor: until I stop getting 500
cazalla: !up eatinstrawberry
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140250 @ 0.00040365 = 56.6119 BTC [-] {2}
fromphuctor: thanks for the pointers in the right direction, have a great day
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22057 @ 0.000402 = 8.8669 BTC [-]
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175887 <<< i might be uncultured swine but i've never understood the appeal of the opera house.. i'd demolish it if i had my way ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 05:28:25; decimation: the megaprojects guy describes the failure of the sydney opera house: "The cost overrun was 1400%. And as always when cost overruns happen, the architect was blamed, and his work situation became so uncomfortable, he found that he actually left the project in the middle, with his family, and flew out of Australia, never to return."
cazalla: this extends as far back as school excursions to the stupid fucking place
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68993 @ 0.00041038 = 28.3133 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17061 @ 0.00039921 = 6.8109 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15044 @ 0.00041498 = 6.243 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu enjoys opera
mircea_popescu: hard to find these days tho. lotta crap.
davout: +1 to opera
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63350 @ 0.00042927 = 27.1943 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00043133 = 7.7208 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.0004139 = 42.342 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: i've never known anyone to go to the sydney opera house for opera, not so sure they even have such things on a reg occurance, more bands, abo dance, international acts sorta thing
cazalla: in other australian news - http://i.imgur.com/fw7Fq8z.png - aussie government welfare app #22, they must be quite happy with that
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eIAzyT )
mircea_popescu: better than pool
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176185 <<< you actually finished them off? bit shocked tbh ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 07:06:30; mircea_popescu: out of bad strawberries.
cazalla: ya should've had kramer take it back
mircea_popescu: "it comes naturally...out of bad strawberries."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61700 @ 0.00043133 = 26.6131 BTC [+]
cazalla: tried growing em one year but possums got to em
cazalla: some japanese variety, forget the name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30806 @ 0.00041208 = 12.6945 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31294 @ 0.00040132 = 12.5589 BTC [-]
shinohai: Good morning, #b-a. If there is a gpg expert here that has a moment to spare I have a question.
davout: shinohai: just ask
shinohai: I am reserching methods of making a larger key and found this: http://teravice.com/wp/index.php/2014/01/22/create-large-gnupg-keys-step-by-step-2/
assbot: Create large GnuPG Keys Step by Step Part 1 (8192 to 16384 bits long) | Technology is in our lives… ... ( http://bit.ly/1dhMu5f )
shinohai: So my question is, is this accurate information?
shinohai: I certainly don't want to do anything that compromises the security f my key intentionally.
davout: shinohai: looks like it would work
davout: except it's probably pointless
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00041889 = 6.1786 BTC [+]
shinohai: M'kay
davout: also it's weird that this isn't some sort of constant
davout: if you need to change the code in two places to change a single scalar
mircea_popescu: there is no serious benefit offered by a key larger than 4096. for one thing, we don't currently have any reason to believe even 2k keys can actually be factored.
mircea_popescu: fore the other, at that level it would doubtlessly be cheaper to crack the symmetric cypher involved
davout: that remains to be demonstrated
davout: shinohai: and even if it was more secure you'd still message counter parties with keys that are smaller than yours
mircea_popescu: what, that blowfish or whatever dies before 4096 rsa ?
davout: isn't aes the symmetric cipher used by GPG?
mircea_popescu: you can pick out of a list.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94417 @ 0.00041889 = 39.5503 BTC [+] {2}
davout: if the symmetric cipher security isn't based on the intractability of factoring large numbers you can't really tell which one will be broken before the other
shinohai: Thanks guy. So until such a time that RSA 4096 is broken, we're still quite safe.
davout: there's a difference between a key size being considered insecure and an algorithm being broken
mircea_popescu: quite.
davout: if we find an efficient algorithm for factoring large numbers we can also kiss RSA 8192 good bye
shinohai: O.o
mircea_popescu: that's basically the idea here. 4k is large enough, 8k doesn't improve anything.
davout: and hand around one-time pads at conferences
mircea_popescu: anyway, im off. laters!
shinohai: o/
shinohai: Thanks for your help again! I'm akways trying to learn and not make terrible noob mistakes.
shinohai: At least not constantly.
davout: shinohai: if you want to improve your crypto skills do the matasano challenges
davout: http://cryptopals.com/
assbot: The Matasano Crypto Challenges ... ( http://bit.ly/1dhNaYo )
shinohai: That looks interesting, bookmarked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52900 @ 0.00041746 = 22.0836 BTC [-]
shinohai: https://youtu.be/RJm3cRRvPoM <<< just wow.
assbot: Selling a 10 oz Silver Bar for $10 (When It's Worth $160) - EXPERIMENT - - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fE7aWR )
shinohai: Why yes, you *can* have my cup of ramen noodles.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 89 @ 0.01234224 = 1.0985 BTC [-] {5}
cazalla: shinohai, did ya know mark dice is A) major clickbait faggot B) goes around offering gold coins and silver bars really cheap but when someone tries to take him up on the offer, he refuses and just edits the footage so as not to include it
shinohai: I did not know that cazalla though he struck me as kind of a douche.
cazalla: he was a protege of alex jones but got all butt hurt and so pretty much copies everything that loon does
shinohai: If he reneged on said offer to me, I'd pribably go to jail for assault.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14411 @ 0.00039477 = 5.689 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62000 @ 0.00039483 = 24.4795 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9256 @ 0.00039477 = 3.654 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105850 @ 0.00039347 = 41.6488 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98852 @ 0.0003927 = 38.8192 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63750 @ 0.00039262 = 25.0295 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33157 @ 0.00039483 = 13.0914 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00039253 = 24.4939 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39752 @ 0.00039483 = 15.6953 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00039483 = 4.659 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27250 @ 0.00039483 = 10.7591 BTC [+]
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/S4ndtvH.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NexiCm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25006 @ 0.00039483 = 9.8731 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25968 @ 0.0003924 = 10.1898 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7132 @ 0.00039157 = 2.7927 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7540 @ 0.00039146 = 2.9516 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00039146 = 6.3808 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16416 @ 0.00039483 = 6.4815 BTC [+]
punkman: !up Anduck
Anduck: thanks
Anduck: ok well, anyone know how to verify deedbot.org deeds?
Anduck: there's no documentation about that.
Anduck: no code either
punkman: I think you just gotta SHA256 the deed bundle and use that as the private exponent
Anduck: hmm, seems to work. thanks!
punkman: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102784968
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QREQB1 )
punkman: "Ades Stone talks about the Treasury's decision to put a woman on the $10 bill and why she thinks a woman should be on the $20, too."
punkman: "please show your support by joining our Virtual March to the White House, using the hashtag #DearMrPresident."
punkman: oh they got virtual marches nao
punkman: because too fat to walk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00039146 = 10.2954 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15915 @ 0.00039468 = 6.2813 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174811 << ya ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:11:52; williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00039146 = 11.0587 BTC [-]
chetty: scotuscare lives :/
shinohai: America the beautiful: http://www.biebuzz.com/2015/06/a-man-from-alabama-has-been-charged.html
assbot: A man from Alabama has been charged with sexually harassing a dog as he sought to get revenge on his wife who was giving it too much attention. | BieBuzz ... ( http://bit.ly/1BDxEkX )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19863 @ 0.00039483 = 7.8425 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00039483 = 8.1335 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25669 @ 0.00039126 = 10.0433 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/25/us-usa-court-healthcare-idUSKBN0P51V220150625 < ""Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them," Roberts wrote in the court's decision, adding that nationwide availability of the credits is required to "avoid the type of calamitous result that Congress plainly meant to avoid.""
assbot: U.S. Supreme Court upholds key Obamacare insurance subsidies| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cw36Nc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00039083 = 4.8658 BTC [-]
decimation: people have hanged for the letter of the law
decimation: it's a colossal joke that this ruling gets handed down by the king's judges, in the 800th year of the magna carta - which itself was a joke and used as propaganda
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00039483 = 6.7713 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16970 @ 0.00039517 = 6.706 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00039898 = 6.7827 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00039956 = 4.555 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.17692587 = 1.5923 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00040389 = 4.6447 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.16749 = 1.5074 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.17692587 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {4}
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: https://imgur.com/a/WjQbx
assbot: Bitcoffee, Buenos Aires, Argentina - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1TP3dhJ )
shinohai: "El cafe que te vuelve inteligente" <<< I drink, I get smart
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00040389 = 8.0778 BTC [+]
mats: not quite
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i think i had a cup there with mthreat coupla weeks ago. coffee's not bad
fluffypony: very cool
mircea_popescu: silver down to 16 huh ? where is that guy came in here was an expert that hadn't been wrong in a decade knew for usre silver's going up ?
mats: ;;seen badon
gribble: badon was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <badon> hi punkman
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00039964 = 10.6704 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i guess it's gonna go up eventually.
mircea_popescu: provided silverware comes into fashion with the chinese middle class or something
mircea_popescu: <shinohai> If he reneged on said offer to me, I'd pribably go to jail for assault. << over a hundred bux ? what are you, bugsy ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00039956 = 9.2698 BTC [-]
asciilifeform discovered, during unrelated research, that xilinx's 'coolrunner' cpld series - a very simple programmable logic gizmo with very homogeneous/regular physical structure - can hold a simple risc cpu...
mats: neat
asciilifeform: z80-style, lacking multiplier & divider
asciilifeform: and scarcely room for barrel shifter
asciilifeform: but cpu, yes
mircea_popescu: he has a point tho. anyone feel like writing up a documentation page for trinque to stick up there ?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> "Ades Stone talks about the Treasury's decision to put a woman on the $10 bill and why she thinks a woman should be on the $20, too." << "because they've not done anything worth the mention so perhaps if we do they start ?"
mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174811 << ya << shit, there go my ocr skills! ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:11:52; williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well z80 had a multiplier and iirc shifter
asciilifeform: mats: this is a pretty major result, imho. because the cpld products haven't changed in nearly a decade, and their internal structure is extremely regular (no special-purpose blocks)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no multiplier
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go, look
asciilifeform: and iirc had ordinary, not barrel, shifter
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: (barrel shifter, named for the characteristic physical shape of the circuit on the die, allows shifting n bits in one clock cycle)
mircea_popescu: http://cpctech.cpc-live.com/docs/mult.html < right you are.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAu3QK )
mircea_popescu: http://sgate.emt.bme.hu/patai/publications/z80guide/part4.html << considering all the work one has to go through to mult. i dunno, i recalled it had the instruction. i guess memory rots.
assbot: Z80 Assembly ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAu9YH )
asciilifeform: everyone forgets the gruntwork, remembers the joy, aha
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0004022 = 10.5376 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla those headphones suck donkey ballz. sound like russian telephone.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: russian chocolate good, russian telephone bad mkay!
shinohai: @ mircea_popescu truth and honesty have a far greater value than anything else. Besides,he has a face like Mark Zuckerberg that you just want to punch for no reason.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'iphone' sounds similar
mircea_popescu: shinohai you mean a... pause... BABY FACE ???
shinohai: >.>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23221 @ 0.00039895 = 9.264 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: 'face like Mark Zuckerberg that you just want to punch for no reason' << we call this 'морда просит кирпича' (mug that begs for a brick)
shinohai: I like the Russian idiom
shinohai: My sides: http://redd.it/3b2ajg
assbot: VPS with GUI? : beermoney ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPf3IH )
mircea_popescu: "fata care cere palme" < face that demands slapping ☟︎
asciilifeform: betcha even pygmies have this phrase
asciilifeform: even eskimo
shinohai: Is that Romanian ?
mircea_popescu: ~92 Online Moneymakers
mircea_popescu: heh. advertising, amirite ?
shinohai: I see little point in running a VPS to make $20 in Amazon giftcards
shinohai: But, to each his own.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34421 @ 0.00039402 = 13.5626 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: asciilifeform which, superlux ?
asciilifeform: aha
kakobrekla: amplified?
asciilifeform: sound card
kakobrekla: doh
asciilifeform: why?
asciilifeform: what does kakobrekla connect them to ?
kakobrekla: integrated amp
asciilifeform: integrated into what?
kakobrekla: its what amp+preamp is called, comes with volume control and input selector
asciilifeform: thing is, sound card is precisely how loud i want them
kakobrekla: its not about loudness
kakobrekla: this is what they are plugged into http://www.hifiengine.com/images/model/denon_pma-350se_stereo_integrated_amplifier.jpg
kakobrekla: bought it 10 years ago
asciilifeform: let me guess - they aren't standard impedance ?
kakobrekla: 64 iirc
kakobrekla: but thats china spec
kakobrekla: god knows really
kakobrekla: even so, the impedance is not fixed through the freq response
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00040389 = 2.7465 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: so whatever
asciilifeform: comparing with bog-standard 'bose qc15' which ~don't~ sound like russian telephone
asciilifeform: without any weird amp box
asciilifeform: everyone loves to piss on that vendor but who, precisely, else, makes usable headphone.
kakobrekla: that comparison i was making with sennheiser hd 595 and hd 650 was on 10k source+preamp
kakobrekla: overall superlux won.
asciilifeform: even the earpads on the 'superlux' feel terrible - no sweat pores; rather like a public bus seat
kakobrekla: yeah, i paid 7$ to get the 'velour' ones
kakobrekla: or whatever that thing is
kakobrekla: i dont know how some people dont mind that plastic, its horrible.
asciilifeform: i'm told that in usa folks in prison get headphones. and now i imagine i know what kind.
kakobrekla: anyway, if you have a chance to at least try them semi properly driven, please do.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: is that a vacuum valve amp ?
kakobrekla: no
asciilifeform has a supply of vacuum valves, scavenged from ancient tv sets, has contemplated building amp. but this will happen - if happens - after the war.
shinohai: @ asciilifeform you can build a vaccum amp O.o
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14507 @ 0.00039022 = 5.6609 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: its easier than doing it solid state
asciilifeform: would have to obtain sockets. and clean +100 dc..
shinohai: I used to play guitar. I never liked solid state amps
asciilifeform: http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A2%D1%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%BA << obligatory
assbot: Тёплый ламповый звук — Lurkmore ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPikaT )
asciilifeform: 'warm lamp sound'
asciilifeform: (meme)
asciilifeform: mega-popular taunt in ru sphere, applied to various 'voodoo'
kakobrekla: i have a tube powered dac but my main power amp sits at 40kg of solid state
asciilifeform: tube dac ?!
asciilifeform: as in, 16 bits of tube ?
kakobrekla: no
kakobrekla: its a sigma delta , yes not even r2r but theres a rectifier and two output tubes
asciilifeform: iirc someone even sells a pc mobo with lamps
asciilifeform: (for preamp)
asciilifeform: http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Tubesound.jpg << there it is!
assbot: Файл:Tubesound.jpg — Lurkmore ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPiQFV )
shinohai wants to learn Russian so badly.
kakobrekla: heres a pic http://www.computeraudiophile.com/attachments/f8-general-forum/635d1338219955-logitech-transporter-back-good-modwrighttransporter1.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPiX4n )
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what are the antennae for ?
kakobrekla: wifi if you like
asciilifeform: l0l
kakobrekla: it streams flac from the server
kakobrekla: so thats bout 2k albums at the touch of a button, convenient.
kakobrekla: (as for the remote, you can actually ssh into it)
shinohai: I saw a Samsung tube amp wifi receiver for a home theater once
shinohai: I didn't know anyone still made them.
kakobrekla: most of the sw is opensource btw.
asciilifeform: most?!
kakobrekla: perhaps even all, havent checked.
kakobrekla: this runs on secondary network btw.
kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> most?! < quite sure you dont get specs for arm runnin inside it and so on
kakobrekla: so, secondary network or stick with vinyl
asciilifeform: shinohai: go, learn. whatchawaitingfor.
shinohai: Hopefully to find a native speaker, which is impossible in my small city.
shinohai: I have put out ads for 2 years offering to hire a language tutor.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out, bitcoind 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: i just don't get this 'let's use same name & versions as the fools did' thing. when we build martian city, will we name it 'washington' or 'pyongyang' ?! why?
mats: pimsleur, rosetta stone, duolingo. your tutors await.
kakobrekla: hehe the foundation has same name, wai not versions
kakobrekla just bitching at the unrecognizability of the f name
decimation: kakobrekla: so the sigma-delta is implented with tube or does it merely use tube as output amplifier?
decimation: or active filter?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What about cutting off the leading zero. Then actual releases start at version 7 or 10, following in the tradition established by the early Linux Distros.
kakobrekla: decimation as far as i can tell tubes are there as output buffer, feeding of sigma delta dac
decimation: okay, interesting
kakobrekla: the device originally came w/o the tube, the mod was an aftermarket thing
kakobrekla: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright3/transporter.html
assbot: 403 Forbidden ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPmdwv )
decimation: I think for most cases there is almost no difference
decimation: but if you are clipping or have momentarily large signal, the behavior in the 'non-linear' domain of the amplifier will be different between tubes and transistors
decimation: I've been told (haven't experimented) that tubs tend to create even harmonics while transistors odd, when driven to near saturation
kakobrekla: yeah theres a thing with harmonics
decimation: I suspect the difference would be most noticable if you were using it as a guitar amp and then driving the thing to distort
kakobrekla: since you mention ss, i tried solid state rectifier replacement instead of tube rectifier. it was a mega fail.
decimation: as in, power rectifier?
kakobrekla: yes!
decimation: umm, use diode?
kakobrekla: i assume thats in the ss replacement
kakobrekla: havent opened it tho
kakobrekla: i can now, since its crap.
decimation: how did it fail? buzzing or spurious signals?
kakobrekla: the sound became unpleasant to listen to, harsh, loss in detail and huge loss in soundstage
kakobrekla: i was expecting it to beat all other tube rectifiers i have
decimation: interesting
kakobrekla: because technically its better.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00040397 = 7.1099 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00039667 = 9.9168 BTC [-]
mod6: asciilifeform: ... 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed << that's weird. I did check the bitcoin git tag list, 0.5.4 isn't in there. Where do you see 0.5.4?
asciilifeform: mod6: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-notes/release-notes-0.5.4.md
assbot: bitcoin/release-notes-0.5.4.md at master · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmcECg )
mod6: huh
kakobrekla: early 2014. year and a half, feels like ages.
asciilifeform: 0.5.4 is much older
asciilifeform: 2014 is the timestamp on the ~dir~
kakobrekla: aha
asciilifeform: .. or is it
mod6: maybe they never actually created a release out of that? I see no tags for 0.5.4 or 0.5.5
asciilifeform: hm
mod6: I don't see it in "Releases" either, but there isn't a v0.5.3 in there either.
mod6: lol
mod6: oh yeah there is, nvm, im blind
mod6: it's out of order a bit
asciilifeform: https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/MPEx.co << new l0ltron
assbot: Wallet MPEx.co [WalletExplorer.com] ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmdcrU )
mod6: but yeah, i don't see any release artifact for v0.5.4 or v0.5.5
mod6: maybe it was planned, but then scrubbed and went straight to 6?
mod6: who knows.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00039232 = 13.3585 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: https://www.elliptic.co/anti-money-laundering << usgtron with elaborate graph ad
assbot: Anti-Money Laundering - Elliptic ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmebYZ )
asciilifeform: (needs js)
BingoBoingo: <mod6> maybe it was planned, but then scrubbed and went straight to 6? << They have been scrubbing the Github of old releases in recent months it seems
mod6: ah
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: perhaps walks around with big sign on ass saying "kick plz"
ben_vulpes: if in tank, nbd
ben_vulpes: if unarmored sapper, perhaps more of a big deal
thestringpuller: mod6: so jeezy is playing tonight downtown in celebration of the 10th anniversary of tm101. and i didn't know about it. i'm half tempted to get 500 cash and go find some ticket scalpers
asciilifeform: what's a tm101 ?
thestringpuller: !b 2 ✂︎
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2R9DXG8.txt )
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6211 << also lulzy. phoundation regards 'buildable with classic gcc' as a bug !
assbot: RFC: switching to C++ 11 · Issue #6211 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmeItS )
asciilifeform: couldn't make this shit up if i tried.
mod6: asciilifeform: hey btw, I don't think that your patches { turdmeister-alert-snip && goodbye-win32 } ever made it into the email list.
mod6: thestringpuller: nice man! yeah, that'll definately be a cool show.
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6320 << where they bury their shat-in pants
assbot: Wanted: Mar12Fork.dat · Issue #6320 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmePG7 )
asciilifeform: mod6: pretty sure it's in there
thestringpuller: mod6: make me feel better for likley not being able to see it
asciilifeform: mod6: you're right! those pre-date the turdatron working correctly
asciilifeform: mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html has the patches, and jurov has the sigs
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmeYt6 )
asciilifeform: (and i think they're also in your auto-build thing)
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6091 << turdalicious bitcoind barfs on mips arch
assbot: bitcoind bus error on MIPS ci20 running debian · Issue #6091 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf43Q )
jurov: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-25 re: today's morning log
assbot: Dilbert's App Stops Cyber Attack - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2015-06-25 | Dilbert by Scott Adams ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf1Fi )
mod6: asciilifeform: hmm, i can't find them. i've looked probably half-a-dozen times over the last 5 months. unless its contained in here: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/000001.html (attachment.bin)
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf2c6 )
asciilifeform has a mips ci20 but not tried it for bitcoin, considering its cost it is not a viable successor for 'pogo'
asciilifeform: mod6: see above
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html has the patches, and jurov has the sigs <<< ooh, ok.
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf6J8 )
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf6Zy )
asciilifeform: ^ there
jurov: ^ i see rm_rf_upnp there
asciilifeform: win32 - missing
asciilifeform: hm
mod6: yeah i added the tarballs right in website myself... just was curious that i never saw the emails.
kakobrekla: << usgtron with elaborate graph ad < meh i checked the yellow dots but there is everybody but bitbet. even jurovs coinroll is there
mod6: yeah, as far as the version number, in hindsight; going forward, we should probably keep all version bumps in it's own patch incase something changes. i.e. your latest IRC Full Demolition Patch.
asciilifeform: mod6: aha
asciilifeform: good point
asciilifeform: i'll sign an identical patch sans the bump if anyone needs this.
mod6: if we do anything else other than 5.4, that'd probably be good cause otherwise we'll hvae to patch your patch. :]
kakobrekla blames the css
mod6: <+thestringpuller> mod6: make me feel better for likley not being able to see it << just throw it on your mp3 player and start hustlin'
mod6: im about to turn it on myself. lol.
trinque: thestringpuller: now you've got me listening to young jeezy over here
kakobrekla: isnt that puberty music?
trinque: you're puberty music
trinque: (yeah, it probably is)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36844 @ 0.00040177 = 14.8028 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: so we've talked about the versioning quite a bit since October. The deal is, if we talk about nothing other than just the format ( X.X.X.X ), we know that we'll have to change much more code than just one line to give it a new version number, as there is a bunch of stuff in there that is used to parse this value.
asciilifeform: imho it ought to be distinguishable from shitgnomatic bitcoin with the naked eye, incl. in survey charts like the one linked a few days ago
mod6: And if we wanna call it version then there was some sort of concerns here surrounding weather or not we'd be able to connect to other nodes. I'd have to go back and look and dig through the code a bit though, I can't recall it all off hand.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu seems to disagree. ask'im why
mod6: well, my concerns were of a technical nature anyway.
mod6: we could try some other version like and see what happens i guess.
mod6: I don't think that's ever been attempted iirc.
asciilifeform: worth a test
asciilifeform: unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ?
thestringpuller: mod6: thank you! tm101 is blastin in my headphones
mod6: yeeeeeah
asciilifeform: afaik this is the last 'blank cheque' left in the skull'n'crossbones version of therealbitcoin
asciilifeform: it needs to go.
asciilifeform: unbounded data structure on a finite machine is retarded
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: but what about the instant stuff like green addres?!?!?!?
asciilifeform: (news at 11!)
asciilifeform: waiwut
asciilifeform: the ancient discredited retardation?
asciilifeform: or some other 'green address'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how would you cap it? anything below some transaction fee is purged from mempool when gets greater than N-mb?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ? << not me yet. there's a laundry list of stuff to get through yet.
mod6: this is a good idea though.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: right now it is 'capped' by the ram installed on your box...
asciilifeform: this is lunacy
mod6: im currenty building a new AMI for gentoo so I/we can test wtf is going on in there with gcc/uclibc. I should be done with that in a few hours.
thestringpuller: i know but how would mempool be effectively capped so nodes don't purge "important" tx's if people spam network
mod6: Then I'm gonna need to cut away from working on that on Saturday afternoonish at the latest to work on the SoBA -- which is looking to be lengthy for this month.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: shooting the tx orphanage in the head rid us of the most obvious spam vector
asciilifeform: a sp4mz0r would have to spam with ~realistic~ tx
asciilifeform: that is, valid sig, and depending on existing block
asciilifeform: as i understand, they'd more or less have to be attempted doublespends
asciilifeform: it is important to remember that there is no 'important' tx from the point of view of the network
asciilifeform: only valid and invalid
mircea_popescu waves
mircea_popescu: o hai briggle!
asciilifeform: there he is.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: even valid transaction can approach infinity
mircea_popescu: <shinohai> Hopefully to find a native speaker, which is impossible in my small city. << so buy a bride. ukr won't be cheap much longer.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out, bitcoind 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed. << makes exactly 0 difference.
mircea_popescu: and "washington" or "pyongyang" are NOT NUMBERS.
mircea_popescu: four followds three. this is not a function of anyone's idiocy.
mircea_popescu: will you propose ~WE~ change the versioning number when (not if) some OTHER shitgnomes release a faux version downstream ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what means 'approach infinity' ? if tx is valid, nondoublespent, and has adequate fee, it is 'every bit as tx' as yours or mine
mircea_popescu: do you expect torvalds to consider what random shitforbrains released as "linux kernel" and go "hey guise we can't use version x.x, anon shitforbrains used it fiorst!!11" ?
mircea_popescu: we.do.not.care. this is because they.do.not.exist.
mircea_popescu: there has been no version of bitcoin released past 0.5.3 ; we are releasing the first one. it's 0.5.4
mircea_popescu: that's all there is to it.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if the valid tx's submitted to the network approach a large number that is greater than modest machine's memory capacicty
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i grasp the logic, but notice that we sit in the gigantic spamatronic shadow of the phoundation. if nobody gives a fuck, there isn't much else to be said about this
thestringpuller: which one's get purged?
mircea_popescu: i think you're not particularly qualified to make this call. what shadow ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the present situation is that they ~all~ 'get purged' when your box goes down.
mircea_popescu: is this some sort of "consensus" that they have or something ? again ?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this i understand. my asking is what are you proposing before machine goes down?
mircea_popescu: plox no more memory holing kthx.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did say 'spamatronic' - i.e. search engine crud.
mircea_popescu: looky here : they live in my shadow.
mircea_popescu: this is an experimentally verified fact.
asciilifeform not professional spamatronicist, cannot say whether this makes a difference one way or another
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't have a specific proposal except that the machine ~must not go down~
asciilifeform: that scenario is undesirable regardless of what else.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: What about cutting off the leading zero. Then actual releases start at version 7 or 10, following in the tradition established by the early Linux Distros. << the problem is that the implication of having a 1 leading version (ie, mature product) is laughable. we don't. hopefully one day we will, but the current offering is not it.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mature version can start at 10.
asciilifeform grasps mircea_popescu's implication that 'the only winning move' in the decimal-point chase game with shitgnomes is 'not to play'
mircea_popescu: precisely.
mircea_popescu: more deeply : there is exactly ZERO derivative work implied in the bitcoin foundation's releases. we don't use anything they did, for the explicit reason that everything they did is shit, with the furter implication that every man who ever worked for them WASTED THEIR LIFE.
mircea_popescu: this is very important to ber there, plainly spelled out.
asciilifeform: back to the more interesting point, we still have an unbounded data structure in there...
mircea_popescu: because people must at some point come to comprehend that they are responsible , at the very least for their own lives, and that the choices they make come with consequences, and the consequences will NOT negotiate.
mircea_popescu: so no, jwh "i just want to contribute" doth not work irl.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/06/pressure-in-the-united-states-mounts-to-ban-symbols-of-rebellion-against-federal-government/
assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAbORw )
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what i was trying to get across earlier is that the very concept of 'mempool spam' is presently undefined
asciilifeform: who says what tx is 'spam'? god ?
mircea_popescu: actually a switch to create "minimally acceptable /kb subsidy" as a precondition of taking tx into mempool might be useful.
mircea_popescu: even better if the behaviour is dynamic (ie, the minimum only kicks in if the mempool is over 1mb, and selects for optimal fill)
asciilifeform: l0l, before long folks start asking for mempool inclusion fee, for self !?
asciilifeform: (vs to miner)
mircea_popescu: this will give node operators an incentive to present good pools to the network.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34650 @ 0.00038998 = 13.5128 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: there has to be some import of market into mempool functioning.
asciilifeform: this sorta turns mempool into even more of a logical albatross than it already is
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: (why not route tx straight to miners then. why have two classes of mining..?)
mircea_popescu: dude...
mircea_popescu: ask me more questions about what this guy did in his basement. i enjoy the feelings of impotent frustration.
asciilifeform: l0lzies
mircea_popescu: anyway. i think that'd be actually +ev, but just a thought.
asciilifeform: perhaps this will wait for the 'sanity hardfork' of the distant fyootoor.
mircea_popescu: yeh
asciilifeform: but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool
asciilifeform: 'to see what happenz'
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm hearing that argument can actually be had in favour of the mempool/minerpool layered implementation.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool << I think one of the earliest XT "selling points" by Hearnia was this for some SpamFunder called "Lighthouse"
mircea_popescu: specifically : that at the very least it should not be possible for one to fire a missile at any place that scarfs up txn or knows about them and hit a miner.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this has a bit of a recursion problem: how does mempool operator know that he is being paid ?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't.
asciilifeform: the whole notion of a payment is defined in reference to blockchain
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, 'fee for mempool inclusion' is... an epicycle.
asciilifeform: in the classical sense.
asciilifeform: how does the operator determine anything whatsoever re: the validity of 'mempool fee' addressed to him ?
asciilifeform: or is he 'running a tab' for folks, and relying on a wotnet ?
asciilifeform: (somehow bolted on)
mircea_popescu: in this way : some mempools, by virtue of being well curated, get to talk first to miners.
mircea_popescu: inclusion in one of these is valuable, and so a private deal can be had.
asciilifeform: so ^ then.
mircea_popescu: allows mempools to be run like a service, much like say a website works.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: as i understand, we already have a 'bezzle' in the net - the unmetered resource, 'blank cheque,' of the mempools. as all 'meat in the sun without flies', it is a very ephemeral thing
scoopbot_revived: Eulora third event - Sunday, June 28th http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-third-event-sunday-june-28th/
asciilifeform: somehow - it will end.
mircea_popescu: i've been saying for years it's the one vulnerability.
mircea_popescu: no big surprise gavin & gang are attacking it while claiming it';s all about anything else.
asciilifeform: can end in some 'dirty' equilibrium, where everybody's living room is filled to capacity with precisely how many rabid weasels it can hold,
asciilifeform: or somewhere more 'clean.'
asciilifeform: i'd prefer 'clean.'
mircea_popescu: it's not. they want to shoot it in the neck.
asciilifeform: it's the one ~protocol~ vuln, yes
asciilifeform: there are the mechanics vulns of the shit-stack
asciilifeform: (needs no elaboration, everyone here knows more than ever wanted to)
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6hr99QPZ71rozn8uo1_1280.jpg << wut da fuck nigga!!!1
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAei2k )
asciilifeform: mmmhhhmphhfm
shinohai: I imagine there is an unseen strapon somewhere in that image.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/06/pressure-in-the-united-states-mounts-to-ban-symbols-of-rebellion-against-federal-government << is pretty plainly a 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' gambit on usg's part
assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAeJJW )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gotta document the kick
mircea_popescu: dood gets it.
mircea_popescu: yeah, you gotta document the kick.
mircea_popescu: it's our own "kick the usg till it bites, then shoot it" gambit.
mircea_popescu: Recently agitators in the United States along with officials in various government capacities have been exploiting a recent minor tragedy << would work without the 2nd recent too
asciilifeform: the 'kick' has been in continuous progression since at least 'bloody kansas incident'
asciilifeform: if not earlier
asciilifeform: and cw1 was the first shot
asciilifeform: dog - still alive (or dogcatcher suspects at any rate)
asciilifeform: 2nd shot probably soon.
asciilifeform: (yes, i favour 'cw1', like ww1. the latter had to wait for 'ww2', but why wait to use correct term?)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was gonna say "why not take it back to civil war" to you, but then i realised what cw1 was.
asciilifeform: aha.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00039201 = 6.1938 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo call up the corp, ask who did it ?
mircea_popescu: ask who doesn't want to tell you, why don't they want to tell you ?
mircea_popescu: put names in there.
mircea_popescu: always put names in there.
mircea_popescu: this isn't about principles. this is about particular morons being particularly moronic. they are personally responsible.
mircea_popescu: cut their vague generalities straight from under them.
trinque: "who in his manifest" << manifesto
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ? << Yes
trinque: "mantel" << mantle
shinohai: http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/
assbot: Apple Removes All American Civil War Games From the App Store Because of the Confederate Flag | Touch Arcade ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAgs22 )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous. << will search. Likely committee action. Just quoting Cooter's thoughts on the action there
mircea_popescu: name the committee, as individuals.
trinque: who needs govt force when american companies are so happy to provide it on the govt's behalf
mircea_popescu: the point is to allow no quarter. there is no excuse. joint and several liability exists to deal with exactly this sort of situation.
mircea_popescu: a committee did it ? you each did it, individually, the full thing.
mircea_popescu: bang.
asciilifeform: shinohai: before long, u.s. civil war material will look like german edition of 'wolfenstein'
mircea_popescu: trinque "american companies" are exactly government entitites.
asciilifeform: covered in mysterious ahistorical blobs
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes, I see your point
mircea_popescu: and so no. an "american company" did it ? obama did it.
shinohai: So dumb. If only history had a blockchain.
mircea_popescu: if you have a company it's his company.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> shinohai: before long, u.s. civil war material will look like german edition of 'wolfenstein' << Already happening in Apple App store
asciilifeform: can't wait to see what the 'new flag' looks like.
asciilifeform: and when ~it~ banned.
mircea_popescu: no new flags.
mircea_popescu: no new anything.
asciilifeform: http://www.nag.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/28-09-Image-Joined.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhpY0 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38491 @ 0.00040443 = 15.5669 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/21328-return-to-castle-wolfenstein-windows-screenshot-a-modified.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhye2 )
BingoBoingo: new flag looks like https://33.media.tumblr.com/f5814086bf70d5022dc23dbf68159f81/tumblr_inline_naq2upNSfM1sxlrl8.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhH1d )
shinohai: https://transfer.sh/1gKOaO/wtfjew.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhHOC )
mircea_popescu: heh. the flags are either the imperial gold with whatever schmuck's escutcheon (i suppose fried chicken and watermelon for the current holder ?) or else the guelph red, or white, or blue, with the horse, the tower, the you name it.
BingoBoingo: replace the stars on the current banner with little watermelons, repatern the stripes like a KFC bucket
chetty: ooo I want one
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5za875MVy1r6mifwo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPIzOr )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65050 @ 0.0003992 = 25.968 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25943 @ 0.00039139 = 10.1538 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28672 @ 0.00038962 = 11.1712 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "In addition to the embarrassment of having their bro-y, bitchin’ orgy leaked online—you can view uncensored portions below—Pearson (who is also the manager’s son), Hopper and Smith can be heard making at least one racially insensitive remark toward the three Thai girls involved with the players."
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha. racially insensitive eh ?
shinohai: @ mircea_popescu if I find a Russian bride in the form of that pic you just posted, I would be a very happy person indeed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00038962 = 10.9873 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: Russian bride < who gets paid in that deal?
mircea_popescu: good q huh.
mircea_popescu: but let's instead count ribs. http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3ofp6umz41r05yn1o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEJZ8I )
cazalla: http://bangordailynews.com/2015/06/25/news/nation/fbi-rounds-up-suspected-lone-wolves/
assbot: FBI rounds up suspected lone wolves — Nation — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEKKhY )
shinohai: @ cazalla so they can attempt to turn them into their own assets
trinque: so this is NSA wiretapping plus FBI parallel construction plus arresting based on thoughtcrime alone
mircea_popescu: "The FBI has been rounding up more potential “lone wolf” terrorists, congressional leaders and the Justice Department say, in response to the perception of a mounting threat of domestic attacks inspired by the Islamic State."
trinque: nice. that's progress.
mircea_popescu: check it out, hanbot's thesis is well confirmed... by the wolf's own mouth.
mircea_popescu: islamic state my foot. your own people hate you because you're hateful, contemptible twerps, yo. nothing isis can or could do has anything in there.
mircea_popescu: The recent arrests are “an indication that the increased number of threads of threats … is at the highest level that most of us have seen since 9/11,” Chairman Richard Burr of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence told us in an interview.
mircea_popescu: His comments track with those of his House counterpart Devin Nunes, who said earlier this week that the country is at a higher risk of terrorism than ever before.
mircea_popescu: that's ok. it'll be a lot worse next year. and the next and the next, and who knows, maybe it makes it till 2020 even.
mircea_popescu: seems dubious.
mircea_popescu: “There are more of these guys to follow than we can possibly follow,” Sen. Lindsey Graham told us. “It’s just a matter of time before one of them penetrates the net.”
mircea_popescu: aaaite.
mircea_popescu: what now asciilifeform ? lizards lying about how fucked they are ?
asciilifeform: sop, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170057 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 22:46:02; asciilifeform: i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044
trinque: there are eventually not going to be enough cops to deal with the number of people tired of their shitty lives.
asciilifeform: the 'your own people hate you' thing isn't false, as such, but a newspiece about the arrest of one Abdul Rahman is not really proof of this
trinque: and sometime after that occurs they'll realize this is the case
asciilifeform: trinque: so far this is like proton decay
asciilifeform waits
trinque: I wouldn't expect that any rival political thing would form among the orcs going apeshit
trinque: just that them doing so might open doors for others
asciilifeform: i can buy an argument re: joe stack et al., but these schmucks are products of usg entrapment program and are really best understood through 'psychiatric' lens, rather than criminalistic much less 'revolutionary'
trinque: sure, I just see 'em all as things which increase the load average of the state
asciilifeform: the folks described in the linked piece are 'load on the state' in strictly the same sense as the traditional '4th of july' fireworks display.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they REPORT the guy by that name.
mircea_popescu: so they can decry the racism of it. bla bla.
mircea_popescu: look at the unreported names.
asciilifeform: my chronoscope's broken
asciilifeform: where can i see the unreported names.
mircea_popescu: on qntra.
asciilifeform: tomorrow's ?
mircea_popescu: erryday's!!11
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/06/attack-on-dallas-pd-headquarters-another-drop-in-bucket-of-frustrated-americans/ << liek. but yes, i'm sure tomorrow's also.
assbot: Attack on Dallas PD Headquarters: Another Drop in Bucket of Frustrated Americans | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkNsKW )
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176740 <<< how would a ban on that stop anything? ya just make your own at home http://i.imgur.com/SJGNdld.jpg ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 20:10:20; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkNvGG )
mod6: finally. new AMI created. that only took ... you don't wanna know.
mircea_popescu: kidney ?
trinque: cazalla: bahaha
asciilifeform: what's an ami
mod6: amazon image.
asciilifeform: ah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the proposition that joe stack is not revolutionary seems alike the proposition that you're innocent of math.
mircea_popescu: he actually says the words.
mod6: so i create gentoo via stage3 whole process in an instance, then have to create snapshot & make image from snapshot. deploy new instance from image.
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform reread stack's death letter, grants that 'revolutionary' - but a weirdo softy who doesn't like killing
mircea_popescu: what, this is an item accidentally shaped like a tree that coincidentally drops plantains to the ground, but not for this reason a plantain tree ?
mircea_popescu: revolutionaries are generally like that in their writing.
mircea_popescu: see the french.
asciilifeform: no i meant the waiting-until-place-is-empty part
asciilifeform: he could've easily burned it down full ?
mircea_popescu: did i ever tell you the story about the blue collar guy who had caritas tickets ?
asciilifeform: ?
trinque: asciilifeform: at least among my meatwot the building being empty played much better
trinque: than the alternative
mircea_popescu: so this one guy, working in a furniture shop, had played this romanian ponzi scheme. early. and kept putting it all in.
mircea_popescu: so he had an immense sum to pick up, and he was scheduled to do so a friday evening.
mircea_popescu: so he asked his workshop boss to let him go to THE STATIUM
mircea_popescu: where he'd have had to wheelbarrow his cash home after being in line for hours.
mircea_popescu: boss wouldn't hear of it
mircea_popescu: man didn't go
mircea_popescu: that saturday morning the thing collapsed.
asciilifeform: happens
mircea_popescu: to joe stacks.
asciilifeform: did he spin around with machine gun ?
mircea_popescu: was he by this token "not minded to be rich" ?
mircea_popescu: simple people miss their funerals because some workshop boss didn't let them off. way the world works.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2015#1005563 << see also. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 23:43:58; asciilifeform: winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!' ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: there's more twu wuv crushed under the trainwheels of normal life than under anything else.
mircea_popescu: lmao
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11056 @ 0.0004035 = 4.4611 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the story of the 'lottery ticket lost in the wash' is cross cultural to schmucks of every country
asciilifeform: iirc there is some lawsuit in usa every day re: one thing or another to do with lottery tickets allegedly misappropriated, stolen, 'borrowed', etc
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: i was never able to understand why these folks thought they were only playing in one lottery
asciilifeform: as opposed to several, including the do-i-cash-this-ticket-in-time one
asciilifeform: the do-i-get-hit-by-asteroid lottery, etc
asciilifeform: some of these are even spiffier than the idiot numbers game because i don't have to pay for the ticket!11
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: can get my asteroid - for phree.
asciilifeform: i remember a course i had to do at uni, where we were shown various results re: the misconceptions about mechanics common among small children.
asciilifeform: in particular, how they will decide that what they cannot see, for whatever reason, isn't there
asciilifeform: as in, pull down a curtain and literally 'it vanished'
asciilifeform: taken with the usual grain of strychnine with which one eats american academe, this is applicable
asciilifeform: phun phakt: http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=529 << monsanto made... led.
assbot: The Vintage Technology Association - Monsanto MV2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSaYVa )
asciilifeform: among the first!
asciilifeform: http://www.datamath.org/Display/Monsanto.htm
assbot: DATAMATH ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSb1jS )
asciilifeform: when do ~we~ make led ?
mircea_popescu: srsly.
asciilifeform: forget cpu. try led.
asciilifeform: 'This effort didn't go very far at first, because Monsanto's marketing department reported that the only color customers wanted was red. Customers used red displays for calculators, so their only concern was getting cheaper LEDs. Marketing never considered other LED applications. Its conclusion that red was the only color wanted may have stemmed from asking the wrong question or asking the wrong people.'
asciilifeform: lulzy.
scoopbot_revived: Bryan Micon Seals The Deal http://qntra.net/2015/06/bryan-micon-seals-the-deal/
asciilifeform: 3 btc?!
asciilifeform: lol
kakobrekla: dont forget the 900bux
asciilifeform: and the arse hymen.
trinque: what is this forfeitting his computers nonsense?
trinque: mild inconvenience at best
trinque: heh probably to search 'em for btc privkeys
kakobrekla: im surprised no jail time
mircea_popescu: eh he's prolly gonna show up having an ugrent business proposal to discuss in short order.
mircea_popescu: the us dept of derp is short on money and understaffed, so it figures hey, what's this shikrashka thing alf keeps mentioning ? ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17426 @ 0.0004035 = 7.0314 BTC [+]
williamdunne: kakobrekla: And the $25,000
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00040174 = 7.4523 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00040541 = 7.7839 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14471 @ 0.00039379 = 5.6985 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, all's there but the vending machine. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0qh7fKyZW1qgvnq9o1_1280.jpg ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAR325 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6806 @ 0.00039379 = 2.6801 BTC [-]
decimation: "lone wolf terrorists" are just another lame excuse for "keep funding us or else"
mircea_popescu: "lone wolf terrorists" have a pretty decent claim to getting an ex-usg civil servant as chattel slave once the thing's done. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: how did the theory go, "bureaucrats are genetically inferior and morally stunted, and so the best thing for their sake is having them live out their lives as slaves for actual humans"
williamdunne: How many slaves are reserved for #b-a?
mircea_popescu would not actually want to be saddled with one of those idiots.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, is this just a beat up by norton or is ramnicu valcea really some leet town?
cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teg-0Kz_8Q
assbot: In Search of The Most Dangerous Town on the Internet [Official Trailer] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hit7qD )
mircea_popescu: cazalla nonsense. there was a high concentration of kids fucking up windows boxen in that town, a decade ago.
mircea_popescu: it was never truly mention-worthy, but some english speaking journo in search of something to write about it wrote that, and well, ever since it's been some sort of english language accepted truth.
BingoBoingo: Ah, I thought you were going to say they all made fortunes and move to St. Kitts
trinque: hack nasa?!
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it's a rural townlet on par with say dublin, ohio.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you recall the story of one guccifer, uneployed cab driver fucking around in internet cafes ?
mircea_popescu: that, 99%.
cazalla: anyway, full doco if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_XI4MM6QI (watching but i expect this to be similar to real estate seminar where norton will hit me up to buy some anti-virus shit at the end of the film)
assbot: In Search of The Most Dangerous Town On the Internet [Official Documentary] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GARKs5 )
mircea_popescu: this sort of crap is unavoidable when doing "reporting". paris was never as fashionable as usians thought.
mircea_popescu: anyway, doing violence to the poorly secured chumpnet is a rite of passage for most of the not-dumb youth of the third world, you must appreciate. in luxor, a tiny town on the valley of the nile, the intellectual elite of boyhood gathered around two beat up dexktops and an acoustic modem trying the same thing.
mircea_popescu: romania's not been much of this for at least 10 years by noiw.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176915 << yes!! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 22:54:33; mircea_popescu: and in other news, all's there but the vending machine. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0qh7fKyZW1qgvnq9o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform absorbed first gibblets of .ro during a tour of duty as professional sp4mz0r hunter
asciilifeform: perhaps 'hunt' is wrong term
asciilifeform: we never removed them from the wild.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176909 << шаражка only makes sense if you have a korolev to put in it. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 22:11:13; mircea_popescu: the us dept of derp is short on money and understaffed, so it figures hey, what's this shikrashka thing alf keeps mentioning ?
asciilifeform: invented, incidentally, nowhere near ru
asciilifeform: but in venice. late 13th c.
asciilifeform: when they sat all the glassblowers down in an island
asciilifeform: blow as much glass as you like. leave? nope.
cazalla: mmm yup, the doco is pretty much an advertisement for norton "As a leader in storytelling for Symantec's global brands, my main goal is to produce proactive, intelligent content that speaks to and engages an audience, and showcases the value of the company's exceptional brilliance in cyber security innovation." Solange Deschatres
asciilifeform: run moar winblowz.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176919 << you'd want those in your house ?! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 23:02:23; mircea_popescu: "lone wolf terrorists" have a pretty decent claim to getting an ex-usg civil servant as chattel slave once the thing's done.
asciilifeform: though they'd work quite well in the car. as seat covers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.0003978 = 5.9272 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSUW-Z_Cnc0
assbot: Bearforce1 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GvhXcu )
BingoBoingo: !up SuchWow
SuchWow: danke