ascii_field: now who wants to tell me why it took so long to do to 'trezor' what i suggested doing to it immediately upon learning of the circuit ?

ascii_field: 'for the love of god, montrezor!' (TM)

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: it carries own stdlib

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: and even has own threading mechanism, scheduler.

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: as a result, it is actually much easier to - usably - plant ada on 'bare metal' (sans os) than nearly anything else

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: wai wat

ascii_field: the latter

ascii_field: (it is braindamaged in several fundamental ways, and it is foolish to speak of 'fixing')

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is the boon of late adolescence/early adulthood : that you can do any stressful job and you'll be fine. what you can't really do is slef-manage tho. which is kind of why i'm indignant over all the wastage sv/the us generally is doing to these eager kids making them "ceos" of "start-ups". << hence, >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094083 ☝︎

ascii_field: point of shit ?

ascii_field: piece of sale ?

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that it is not unreasonable to say 'i will not compete with 16 y.o. if i have any choice in the matter'

ascii_field: microscope does not want to be a hammer

ascii_field: and isn't much good as one

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the boys are biologically equipped only to be cannon fodder, really

ascii_field: !s breathe vacuum

ascii_field: which, iirc, doesn't even work in usa...

ascii_field: pr0n ?

ascii_field: l0l

ascii_field: he oughta do something more stimulating with the money. like have a golden toilet cast.

ascii_field: i mean, wtf. i actually tried to put some chumpatronium in the hopper and all i got was 'eggog'

ascii_field: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg/400px-Elektronika_MK_52_with_ERROR.jpg

ascii_field: aha

ascii_field: (a while ago)

ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14185641139150.jpg

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: elektronika mk-61

ascii_field: legendary programmable pocket calculator

ascii_field: like i knew.

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: icon from forum, https://2ch.hk/pr/res/416689.html

ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14186615103850.jpg (cpu) ; https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14185751153750.png (sram close-up)

ascii_field: all photos taken by enthusiasts

ascii_field: original design was lost in the collapse of su

ascii_field: and had to be laboriously restored, by folks who loved the machine to death

ascii_field: the purpose of this was to create a bug-compatible emulator

ascii_field: (many beloved proggies, passed around on grid paper, used the cpu bugs)

ascii_field: https://2ch.hk/pr/src/416689/14188936319390.jpg

ascii_field: left hand: 'most popular prog. langs.' bottom left: 'but how about mk-61?'

ascii_field: the font face is roughly cyrillic's equivalent of german 'blackletter'

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: https://2ch.hk/pr/res/416689.html#454485 << translation exercise

ascii_field: but it could almost have been written by mircea_popescu ...

ascii_field: l0l wut

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/19C1P7K.txt << here ya go

ascii_field: other than it.

ascii_field: ru

ascii_field: originally, roughly 'cattle' but archaicism and means something like what 'redneck' in usa

ascii_field: --- translation. mega-paste warning ----

ascii_field: 3, 2, 1...

ascii_field: 'But what, specifically, remains for the poor students and wankers, who took up the notion that there is such a profession - "programmer" ? Yes, there is, but not in the sense that these larval untermenschen conceive of it. Some see in this role something just short of the demiurge, crafting the future; others see a good way to set up their life, secure their future, a stable income and career growth.

ascii_field: But the pathetic parody of a human does not grasp that it is not enough to have a cock's crest bachelor degree or to spoodge out a few pages of code at an olympiad, to become a programmer. In the course of this revelation, the lame abortus, reject of evolution, slowly begins to comprehend that the world is very much not as he imagined it.

ascii_field: The apprehension of one's inadequacy begins, of the futility of one's existence, the principal impossibility of fulfilling one's idiotic desires. But there is always a choice. If the first variant prevails, he will press on with self-improvement, the study of genuinely worthy technologies, on which there can be foundations for the creation of something better. And he will understand that no one needs him as a smart-arse.

ascii_field: Or what remains - the other variant - to dive into the common flow of the sewers, and take hold of a passing piece of shit and feed upon it for the rest of one's pathetic life. Some are satisfied with this, just as many are satisfied with the profession of the prostitute, the cleaner of latrines, a waiter in MacDuck, etc. But a more or less normal person begins to experience breakage in his value system, worldview;

ascii_field: thoughts concerning the futility of his existence begin to intrude upon him, of futility; old complexes sharpen, and flower into a full-blown psychological crisis...

ascii_field: Yes, once upon a time, the "programmer" was a serious engineering profession with a shade of elite status. In those years, genuine mastery of certain technologies was demanded from him, and this was not attainable by all. Whereas today any Downs-syntrome-autist can call himself a programmer, because he has mastered the basics of redneck-coding and will work for food. As for genuine professionals - like in many other

ascii_field: related fields - they are no longer in demand today. Therefore there is not much choice: sign for your supper by the latrine [ru prison parlance - transl. note] or silently rot in full consciousness of your total bankruptcy and futility of existence.'

ascii_field: it's just a fscking translation

ascii_field: and i blogged about more or less same thing for 7+ yrs, to no effect

ascii_field: (in case this was not clear, the ru original was not mine, and was found by accident)

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: don't get me wrong, i shall write again. and yes - for the archaeologists, as before. but presently cut among 1) dayjob 2) s.nsa 3) sleep,eat,...,write

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to recycle it into your next mega-article if you feel like

ascii_field: which he stole from some anon...

ascii_field: l0l

ascii_field: i cited that thing merely because it is a compact statement of essentials of naggumism.

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is not untrue, unfortunately

ascii_field: for the reason which i tried to explain last night

ascii_field: about meat-wots

ascii_field: don't take my word for it.

ascii_field: !s deskilling

ascii_field: (not sure if the phenomenon is presently discussed under than name, or discussed at all for that matter. but it does have a name.)

ascii_field: nope. it is driven by perfectly legit economics

ascii_field: same as the 'wriggleys gum' and plastification of industry

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not if 'arse covering' works as well as 'secure'

ascii_field: evolutionary pressure knows how to lead to two places

ascii_field: adaptation

ascii_field: or extinction.

ascii_field: let's narrow down -which- particular thing mircea_popescu is unconvinced by, before i answer

ascii_field: there -is- demand, but it is -extremely- meat-wot-gated

ascii_field: because of the sheer pressure of orcs at the gate and the paucity of the positions

ascii_field: but so narrowly tight to the extent that the practitioners have lost all negotiating leverage.

ascii_field: mike_c: entirely not the profession i was speaking of.

ascii_field: as different as 'wife' and 'prostitute'

ascii_field: even more so, arguably.

ascii_field: mike_c: roughly, 'problem solver'

ascii_field: i can say quite securely that no one at 'google' is employed in this capacity.

ascii_field: mike_c: 'we have xxxxx and have not the slightest idea what to do about it'

ascii_field: or, more related to my current gig, 'we have yyyyyy and wish to know why it was made, by whom, what it does, it fell out of flying saucer'

ascii_field: mike_c: occasionally

ascii_field: ^ most of it, in my particular case ☟︎

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it will make more sense if i reveal that

ascii_field: the fact that most of what i do is not brute labour

ascii_field: but invention of tools to speed up the process

ascii_field: and enable particular flavours of reverse engineering which are otherwise impossible

ascii_field: i'm afraid that i cannot say more without breaking oath to the personal friends for whom i carry out this work.

ascii_field: mike_c: say you have a boat

ascii_field: nice, aye ?

ascii_field: but what if it goes down

ascii_field: and if mast breaks off in the storm

ascii_field: it is a small boat.

ascii_field: mike_c: what i did before, was entirely else - high-performance computing for chemical modelling

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: diametric is in wot

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the other fella lost his key

ascii_field: i think

ascii_field: but they're the kind of folks with offspring, mortgages, etc.

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: actually

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: why do you suppose i'm not there

ascii_field: the field died.

ascii_field: most of the pharma folks closed down r&d entirely.

ascii_field: it is 'obama-back' not back.

ascii_field: high-paying job that kills the mind is a suicide.

ascii_field: i spent ~3 yrs, fresh from school, actually honest-programming-for-money

ascii_field: will never get the iq points back.

ascii_field: it is palpable.

ascii_field: ben_vulpes: how much did you age from 22-25 ?

ascii_field: mircea_popescu sleeps ad libitum

ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings. ☟︎

ascii_field: 'knowing what parts to skip' is -the- wunderwaffen.

ascii_field: but this is a rather separate component of effective intelligence

ascii_field: like the tires of a car

ascii_field: the spiffiest tires will not turn 'trabant' into 'mazerati'

ascii_field: though opposite - sure.

ascii_field: 'the eagle never lost so much as when studied from the crow' or what was it

ascii_field: 'notation is worth 80 iq point' (TM)

ascii_field: and to this well-known maxim i will add mine, 'giving a fuck about the problem is worth 100 iq points'

ascii_field: the real reason i will not compete with the 16 y.o. is not stamina per se, but that i cannot trick my brain into actually caring

ascii_field: this is why i often say that in buenos aires i would have to learn shoemaking or the like

ascii_field: some sort of work that does not demand too much mental presence

ascii_field: aha that was what i was thinking of

ascii_field: as in that photo.

ascii_field: i'm not yet sold on the fact of that boy's existence being more fun than american jail.

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: there is also such a thing as the mental equivalent of stretched arse-rape sphincter

ascii_field: what i am speaking of is the effect i observed where folks learn to like fundamentally uninteresting concepts.

ascii_field: because they get off on the flourishes.

ascii_field: e.g., c++.

ascii_field is a believer in sapir-whorf to the extent that he very much observed the braindamage caused by imprinting on certain programming concepts, in a great many people.

ascii_field: 'imprinting' not in the strict zoological sense, but in that of having encountered a concept during 'formative years' when a fella is figuring out wtf 'a computer is'

ascii_field: i've been fighting a largely losing battle for many years, attempting to convince folks to imagine - in their spare time - that a computer is not necessarily von neumann and the 50 yrs of shit soup

ascii_field: i will confess that it took me retardedly long time to understand that my hypothetical rebellion against the soup cannot be funded or organized for some very fundamental reasons

ascii_field: (short version - it is too much like the proverbial 'mars voyage' - counter-economic leap.)

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: the type of funding necessary cannot be 'found'

ascii_field: it isn't hiding somewhere in the jungle

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: don't delude yourself that you are doing 'it'

ascii_field: you are doing another thing, spray-painted to resemble 'it'.

ascii_field: because 'it' does not come into pieces.

ascii_field: and it cannot be done under the thumb of vc sc4mz0rz

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: to avoid rehashing ancient thread for a fifth time, stuck at the realization that reversing xilinx is futile.

ascii_field: interested readers can find the threads.

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: not exactly. even if you could secure an infinite supply of the particular fpga, it turns out that they are not actually very general. in that you cannot efficiently implement muller c-gates in them.

ascii_field: (before anyone spits back the old paper re: the fact of c-gates implemented on xilinx fabric - go and see how many of them you can fit. and how much room left for interconnects.)

ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: could do -something- but not -something worth doing-

ascii_field: nor am i especially interested in building yet another computer with passive memory.

ascii_field: memory as a device that just sits there, is a 20th c. idiocy.

ascii_field: bits expensively stored as charge on si ought to be available for computing asynchronously.

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what'd you have it do << a number of things, which resolve to 'the contents ending up where needed by dependency-graph without being asked every time'

ascii_field: the current addressing schemes are retarded

ascii_field: certainly

ascii_field: most of it does not need to be addressible at all

ascii_field: only 'useful' to the extent a lathe from newton's time was useful to creating today's.

ascii_field: and i could have easily built all of this by 25 y.o. if martians had landed and given me the means.

ascii_field: but that's not how it works

ascii_field: sure, could have tripped and fell to death in the bath.

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: largely because i am not mircea_popescu and not in control of the variables.

ascii_field: did not say that it is a definite guide (to what? l0l)

ascii_field: but that i knew precisely what must be done to make a computer a tolerable thing, most of a decade ago.

ascii_field: ^ which could be sooner than expected

ascii_field: the gurl's expression !!!

ascii_field: she is thinking, so intently

ascii_field: 'is goldbach's conjecture true ???'

ascii_field: i call ^ this style of prep 'tomb goods'

ascii_field: as what egyptians did.

ascii_field: leaving goodies for one's killers to pick up.

ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-04-2015#1090204 ☝︎

ascii_field: Chillum: consider the question of what kind of social structure has to be in place for the gold chain, etc. to remain yours to trade

ascii_field: rather than ripped from your fresh corpse by whoever.

ascii_field: or the absurdity you were asked to believe, that villagers could have 'food flown in' in exchange for collectively 'picking up gold flakes' ☟︎

ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit' ☟︎

ascii_field: there was once an engineer who occupied himself with the design of a kind of bathyscaph, a sort of 'mecha' suit in which one could survive being beaten and bitten by bears.

ascii_field: Chillum: it is quite plausible to a large group of people to pull gold out of the ground

ascii_field: except that it is done in gulag

ascii_field: and not for airdrop, but for a little gruel and another day of not being shot and thrown to the dogs.

ascii_field: Chillum: point being that collapse leads to a trade in slaves without necessarily pausing for long at gold chains.

ascii_field: slaves after much preliminary culling via natural processes

ascii_field: Chillum: familiar with the fact that jars of roman gold, silver are often found even now ?

ascii_field: they did not help their owners.

ascii_field: this is the universal explanation for buried treasure, incidentally

ascii_field: Chillum: mandatory 'buried treasure' thread on #b-a >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402 ☝︎

ascii_field: ^ reqd. reading

ascii_field: Chillum: read it. and understand that the amount of gold that is -yours- is the amount that fits in your body cavities - and, with modern techonology, not even this.

ascii_field: trinque: this fails because the subject of the thread is - as i firmly believe - necessarily the work of -one mind.-

ascii_field: it does not corporatize.

ascii_field: trinque: so corporatize the "chumpatron", not the lab, and own both >> see my comment to mircea_popescu >> http://trilema.com/2015/on-owning-things/#comment-113503

ascii_field: the last paragraph.

ascii_field: trinque: i can't speak for you, but i cannot build anything whatsoever in my sleep.

ascii_field: trinque: i presently do something very vaguely similar to what you suggested, working for something that could be described as an antivirus firm. and it eats most of my stamina.

ascii_field: trinque: not like i need any of it for anything elsewhere

ascii_field: aha.

ascii_field: the basic idea of the thread is that no one is willing to pay - as in, -really- pay - for non-retarded things

ascii_field: it's rather like being a doctor who caters specifically to alcoholics

ascii_field: but he is not permitted to tell them to stop drinking.

ascii_field: and now imagine that this is the only kind of doctor there is.

ascii_field: trinque: arms races don't necessarily create long-term thinking.

ascii_field: benefactor would need a time horizon of 500 years at least.

ascii_field: trinque: again can't speak for you, but i can't create the customer any more than can create the weather. ☟︎

ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here ☟︎

ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead. ☟︎

ascii_field: the only extant analogue of this is the multigenerational starship concept

ascii_field: the actual number is uninteresting

ascii_field: and unknowable.

ascii_field: you need, essentially, fanatics.

ascii_field: Chillum: where do i leech 50 yrs of free time and a semiconductor plant ?

ascii_field: mats has it.

ascii_field: !s lead standard

ascii_field: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2011/04/financial-totalitarianism.html << obligatory orlov

ascii_field: 'And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”' ☟︎

ascii_field: Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value << aha, very valuable, but nothing in particular attaches it to your earthly carcass.

ascii_field: ^

ascii_field: srsly this is not a secret, there is ample literature on what actually happens to idiot schmucks who think that money is magical

ascii_field: and somehow can turn into goodies by itself ☟︎

ascii_field: Chillum: markets do not disappear in a collapse, but become 'seller's markets' very quickly. the cost of a ticket on schindler's train was a bag of diamonds. the cost of a ticket on same train after it left - $infinite.

ascii_field: trinque: which is why i said 'fanatics'. folks who understand that they are human rocket stages and accept this.

ascii_field: Chillum: 'pretend you are poor' works until 'poor' means 'ribs showing'

ascii_field: or dead

ascii_field: actually farting sarin gas and spitting bullets at your enemies would be your best bet.

ascii_field: but constant travel is a close second.

ascii_field: the amount of useful information contained in either advice is nil.

ascii_field: Chillum: the only further comment i have for this is that you will be well-served to read up on actual scenarios resembling your hypothetical. rather then using 'zombie apocalypse' 3d shooters as a mental model.

ascii_field: trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel? << in so long as this is phrased this way in his head - never. ☟︎

ascii_field: it would have to be 'will of allah' or whatnot.

ascii_field: trinque: are you able to see value in the truth as an abstract ?

ascii_field: 'that the protection stuff like checking array boundaries and pointer validity can be handled by the compiler just as effectively as it can in hardware, with the running product a lot faster and a lot simpler to build.' << imbecilic garbage

ascii_field: when 'in software' - can and -will- be stripped out.

ascii_field: for 'speed'

ascii_field: as described, e.g., here: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html

ascii_field: stockholm syndrome sufferer, justifying status quo so he can avoid fellating his pistol

ascii_field: citing the failures that he and his ilk were responsible for, as proof that problems cannot be solved.

ascii_field: i assume that the discussion concerned my www site, but my points stand even if not.

ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you know the organism in question, link him to my answer. ☟︎

ascii_field: Chillum: what some folks will do, just to get nsa into an automatic plant waterer.

ascii_field: or whatever you were going to do originally with 555 timer, that you are now using 'web server' for

ascii_field: merely because 'it is cheap'

ascii_field: read the link.

ascii_field: funkenstein_: i am always entertained by folks commenting 'he does not know history of computing', when themselves they do not even know most of it, because it happened on the wrong side of the atlantic

ascii_field: and doesn't exist in english

ascii_field: see, idiot derps who do not know the state of the art and say that they do not need to, because taiwan isn't making it and their corner computer store isn't selling it - belong in africa.

ascii_field: funkenstein_: depends

ascii_field: funkenstein_: go and see how much physical space 1kb of memory takes up in a way you can -personally- construct from discrete transistors.

ascii_field: bullet molded from shit.

ascii_field: 'fly to the moon by stacking chairs'

ascii_field: funkenstein_: whatcha waiting for

ascii_field: go, use. ☟︎

ascii_field: funkenstein_: wake us up when you get something like intel 4004.

ascii_field: funkenstein_: expecting an answer to this question in a sentence is the height of folly

ascii_field: but, fundamentally, it is this:

ascii_field: the tech level to allow -one individual who can hold the design in his mind- to attempt it - wasn't there yet.

ascii_field: trinque: and where is the man? also dead ?

ascii_field: at least consistent.

ascii_field: -because- incremental. ☟︎

ascii_field: there is no incremental path from -committee of crud- to -individual fits-in-head-

ascii_field: Chillum: not all applications call for security << ?!?!!!! ☟︎

ascii_field: what else do 'not all applications' call for

ascii_field: is it all right if device spontaneously catches fire ?

ascii_field head-desks

ascii_field: nature doesn't build cpu.

ascii_field: or even the shirt on your back.

ascii_field: Chillum will get his next cpu from a tree.

ascii_field: mankind - makes leaps.

ascii_field: everything worth talking about a generation up - is a leap.

ascii_field: no cow that lived so much as 50 years ago is worth discussing

ascii_field: unless it was used in a medical experiment

ascii_field: even in so much as it was necessary so that paul erdos could have a glass of milk.

ascii_field: the blade of grass the cow ate is not 'our fault' at all

ascii_field: and even less worthy of discussion, as an individual.

ascii_field: trinque: that is virtually guaranteed

ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with

ascii_field: than otherwise.

ascii_field: trinque: 'soviet economics' was the kind of fool who is the only kind who can make sufficiently long bets.

ascii_field: excepting perhaps ancient egyptians, or medieval christendom

ascii_field: funkenstein_: until you grasp it, we have nothing to discuss

ascii_field: read the logs.

ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-02-2015#1033665 ☝︎

ascii_field: ^ mandatory

ascii_field: trinque: certainly

ascii_field: trinque: the only unsolved problem that would make a palpable difference is the home ic fab. which makes home satellite launch look trivial.

ascii_field: trinque: wake me up when you solve this

ascii_field: without being killed by usg

ascii_field: but -don't wake me up- if you want to be 'the delusionist'

ascii_field: http://oglaf.com/delusionist

ascii_field: NO

ascii_field: fuck, none of you read logs, do you

ascii_field: !s xilinx

ascii_field: trinque: nothing about electricity made 'business sense' in 1810.

ascii_field: the only reason you are reading this by electric light, instead of mumbling to yourself in a field, is that someone had the freedom to counter-economically pull his mental dick by experimenting with strange.

ascii_field: the economic actors came second.

ascii_field: trinque: lodygin didn't make terribly much from light bulb.

ascii_field: thing is, you don't get to make herr lodygin not exist, just so your ideology can make sense.

ascii_field: or lilienfeld's transistor.

ascii_field: or, or, or

ascii_field: or farnsworth's television

ascii_field: ^ lived in usa

ascii_field: funkenstein_: aha let's change subject, sure

ascii_field: no.

ascii_field: it is germane.

ascii_field: trinque: who was korolev's capitalist ? ☟︎

ascii_field: trinque: interestingly, there are quite a few technologies which, in the popular mind, 'don't exist' because you cannot get them at the corner store.

ascii_field: e.g., doped diamond semiconductor

ascii_field: but they exist nevertheless.

ascii_field: trinque: consider an example:

ascii_field: P. Ya. Ufimtsev, Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, Soviet Radio, Moscow, 1962.

ascii_field: does this ring a bell?

ascii_field: it should.

ascii_field: the (meanwhile obsolete today but that is another conversation) 'stealth' airplane - lives and dies by this paper

ascii_field: a fact not disputed by its makers

ascii_field: note that herr ufimtsev did not go to a venture capitalist and ask for money to live on so he could study mathematics and live a long life of possibly not amounting to anything that could be cashed in to pay it back.

ascii_field: aha

ascii_field: like a demented old woman who invests in pyramid scams ten times a day

ascii_field: trinque: same question will be asked of usa

ascii_field: and every other mega-empire

ascii_field: how did aztecs stay in business long enough to build their pyramid temples?

ascii_field: egypt?

ascii_field: empires - age. and die. like people.

ascii_field: in what bubble did mr newton live ?

ascii_field: arguably in christendom, but he did write 'i do not need that hypothesis' when asked where the place of the creator was in 'principia'

ascii_field: ditto ussr

ascii_field: what particular state religion is in use, is unimportant so long as ufimtsev et al can do their thing.

ascii_field: in bubbles, you sometimes get visitors from older, long-popped bubbles

ascii_field: trinque: this is not a question that anyone has any use for the answer of, even if i could convincingly answer it. but otherwise - chetty has it.

ascii_field: Chillum: and if not. i spend a vastly larger fraction of my waking hours working to pay tax than any medieval peasant in europe did.

ascii_field: to wrap up the thread, when i spoke of 'fanatic' i was referring precisely to mircea_popescu's 'act from cause not towards purpose' maxim.

ascii_field: trinque: that is a formulation for the simple

ascii_field: in actuality, there are two kinds of human activity. 'i will do this because my cock will be sucked, or to avoid whipping', and the other being 'i will do this because it is right'

ascii_field: 1 is 'purpose'; 2 - 'cause'.

ascii_field: virtually anyone worth speaking to, is, upon examination, motivated by some (2) and not merely (1).

ascii_field: think of the partizan who dies under torture rather than rat out comrades

ascii_field: or whatever equivalent exists in your particular culture (and if your culture doesn't have such heroes, it is moribund and time to gtfo)

ascii_field: the world that exists after your death is imaginary.

ascii_field: if you don't see this, you are playing mental gymnastics, but whatever rocks your boat.

ascii_field: 'A 14-year-old middle school student in Holiday, Florida, was arrested this week and charged with "an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access," which is a felony. The student reportedly used an administrator password to log into a teacher's computer and change the background image to a photo of two men kissing. The student also revealed his secrets after he was caught – the password was the teacher'

ascii_field: s last name, and the teacher had typed it in in full view of the students. The student said many other students used these administrators' passwords (their teachers' last names) so they can screen-share and video chat with other students. The student was briefly held in a nearby detention center, and the county Sheriff warned that other teenagers caught doing the same thing will "face the same consequences."'

ascii_field: 'Kids need to learn the consequences of embarrassing powerful people. That is one of the golden rules of modern society; thou shalt not embarrass thy superiors. Snowden forgot that, and this little punk forgot that. You respect your betters, or you get tossed in a cage. That's the law. Ingrain that into your kid's brains before puberty hits, or they will wind up in a cage too.' << from commentz

ascii_field: funkenstein_: likely means that there is a revocator packet in there for some key you don't have in your collection

ascii_field: should not be a fatal error

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i had to guess, it'd be http://qntra.net/2015/04/battle-for-the-right-to-play-old-multiplayer-games-take-shape