log
⏐︎ 17319
BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well... i would say 50^ of these two months are roughly due to the last year or so. so basically we'll be seeing +1 month / year indefinitely, as blocks can't get any fuller.
mircea_popescu: by which math, quoite, 6 in 2020, 12 in 2026, two years by 2038 (when something or the other will be fixed in boost, apud satoshi)
BingoBoingo: At least this gives a reasonable target of 2020-2026 for less shitty block verifier
mircea_popescu: hopefully.
pete_dushenski: i literally spent the last 3 hours in channel, typing away, wondering why assbot wasn't picking up my links, totally unawares that i hadn't voiced myself. that's some kind of new low.
pete_dushenski: hurr durr is me
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It appears you failed the development history portion of your comprehensive exam. Must retake.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/#comment-39384
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrH83l )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes you'll be pleased to find your trb history prominently linked in part ii :)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: or maybe ben will be choked that i only mentioned him on the shitty part of the history thus far, who knows
pete_dushenski: anyways, small updates made as per asciilifeform's several suggestions
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380372 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9g2szHsoz0 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:48:28; BingoBoingo: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 << 7!
assbot: DJ KHALED, AKON & TI "We Takin' Over" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrHsyY )
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code.
BingoBoingo: But props to pete_dushenski for trying to write for the comprehensive exam at this time.
pete_dushenski: i did read come, while some of it made sense, much was chinese. but having gone through the process undoubtedly gave me the tools needed to launch my own public node. so there's that.
pete_dushenski: s/come/some (code)
pete_dushenski: s/having gone/going
pete_dushenski: i must need a drink
pete_dushenski: http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/3EE0/production/_87769061_33fd250e-5b35-4802-b575-be352ef87edb.jpg << pretty sure 99% of the internet is "smart like bill". lotta good it does them.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmziMb )
shinohai: https://redd.it/422ge4
assbot: Pieter Wuille: "Opt-in RBF is not theft. It's indicating that you're not sure whether what you're submitting is the final form of the transaction" WTF ?!? : btc ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmAD5A )
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379678 << no objection here. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/#comment-39387
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmEa3H )
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: point taken. will add 'portatronic'.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: also recall the glibc agonies
asciilifeform: these were the stimulus for the whole dns thermonuke thing
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> Dec 22 17:01:42 <mircea_popescu>Iin other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914. << almost there!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if only we had larger blocks. << srsly right?
mircea_popescu: in yet other other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3d812ac51098f15ad6c974acdf63736a/tumblr_n8aewlgLDV1t0quw8o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QhUFNU )
mod6: pete_dushenski: if I may be so bold, Sir: Some helpful info you may find in the monthly statements from the foundation.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code. << word.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: incidentally pete_dushenski doesn't have to write a history if he doesn't feel like it
asciilifeform: but if he does, it ought to chip away at rather than add to the confusion, imho.
BingoBoingo merely offering these comments so that at some point in the future members of our cult may be able to unironically honor each other with the title Doktor
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for taking the time to search through the code today and write it up.
mircea_popescu: "I still haven't found anyone that is asking for RBF." << pretty muchg the definitive word on that derpage.
asciilifeform: wtf is rbf ?
asciilifeform: royal bank of fucktard ?
mircea_popescu: there is exactly 0 demang for all the crap these dudes keep trying to paint as "innovation".
mircea_popescu: i understand that they have no option, being unable to do anything and ambitious enough to want to be seen doing things. nevertheless.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> wtf is rbf ? << Yet another weirdo script for double spending unconfirmed transactions with a higher fee. Only pheature is being more polite than just doing it as has always been possible
mircea_popescu: mod6 it wasn't that bad. but there's 1-200 man-hours in there easy going through all those cases and justifying them. not to mention that the ones that will need rewriting most llikely amount to two or three total rewrites of the codebase anyway.
mircea_popescu: but such are the father's pistols. if only he were less of a drunk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rbf aka "replace by fee" is a nutty idea of peter todd that got a sour treatment hre a whole ago, but for incomprfehensible reasons, let's say, managed to obtain wuile's support.
pete_dushenski: mod6: i actually found the monthly really very helpful, and i'm sure that i'll continue to find them of value. they're essential resources for shallowing out the steep learning curve :)
pete_dushenski: *monthly reports
mircea_popescu: or otherwise we could say the reasons are thoroughly comprehensible as they are reprehensible and just hang the lot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wouldn't it already be a thing if we had the fee-based mempool sorter ?
mircea_popescu: in a sense. not really.
asciilifeform: i.e. one could displace an unconfirmed tx of fee f by broadcasting doublespend where fee > f, at least with a certain nonzero probability
mircea_popescu: the way this works is that i can say "take this and pay bob and keep a cent" and then later come and say "take this and pay alice instead and keep two cents", making the later guaranteed to overtake the former.
mod6: 602 instances of numeric wizardy, yup. lot to track down there. but, thanks again. it needed doing.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in a sane mempool scheme, a 2 cent payment does not guaranteedly remove a 1 cent one from the mempool.
mircea_popescu: maybe the cutoff is at a tenth of a cent ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i can definitely say that the trb history is adding to ~my~ confusion, but i don't see that as something to be avoided. my hope is that i'll eventually make enough sense of this to relay it concisely to others. still much work to do, no doubt.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how did his scheme ~guarantee~ ?
asciilifeform: seems to me that a miner can stuff any valid tx into a block
mircea_popescu: yeah, there is that.
mircea_popescu: but you know, the miners will implement whatever pr-derps tell them to!111
mircea_popescu: because "important personalities and leaders of bitcoin" and whatnot.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i must agree with BingoBoingo: sadly, reading the actual code is not optional
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: observe that even mircea_popescu has put on the apocalyptic gas mask and reads.
asciilifeform: the ultimate authority on what the crock of shit actually does is the selfsame crock of shit.
mircea_popescu: lol wut is this!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i read the patches, though admittedly little code. i'm probably not even competent enough to need gas mask though, so no worries. amor fati.
asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/b888e8335a231a2734ec1eef03379a40/tumblr_mf12tcSGGS1rms8vuo1_1280.jpg << "sorry, we've had some reports of thefts lately"
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QhVIgR )
asciilifeform: я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that chick looks like she is eating a lemon or what
mircea_popescu: well... she is.
mircea_popescu: (lemon = old fag)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Much to be said for the learning value of patch by hand in addition to doing V-presses
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380303 << bitcoin's too broken this year ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:07:22; adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon?
mircea_popescu: soo... apparently most of medium's visitors are from... india. and brazil.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: true enough. relatedly, 'tevye' is now running like a champ, keeping up with even asciilifeform's s00perbalticn0de. the difference ? aws banhammer.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: quite possibly awshammer is obsolete
pete_dushenski: possibly or not possibly, it's the only thing i changed between yesterday and today. and the lag is gone.
pete_dushenski to dinner, appreciates all input this eve.
asciilifeform: malleus has same effect but more surgically precise.
mod6: i conducted a second live-fire test today with the changes submitted by mircea_popescu & asciilifeform, here are the results: http://dpaste.com/29928TB.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmImjZ )
asciilifeform: mod6: neato
mircea_popescu: mod6 seems all good ?
mod6: Everything looks ok to me. When not specifying a highs or lows flag, txn went through just fine no malleation. When '-lows' flag was passed, txn went through just fine, no malleation. WHen the '-highs' flag was passed, txns were malleated, as expected.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, and unrelatedly to the "magic numbers" avenue of trb improvement : one obvious anbd cheap hardening for trb would be to allow the user control of entropy source.
mircea_popescu: it is plainly inconceivable anyone uses a wallet for payments and doesn't do this.
mircea_popescu: yet from what i know 99% actually do just that.
mod6: So yep, pretty much same results as yesterday, althought it is noteable that not passing any flag at all ; no txns were dropped on the floor. They wern't malleated yesterdayr either, so it could have just been lots of spam yesterday or something similar.
mod6: But noteable.
mircea_popescu: this includes most "bitcoin businesses" in fiat.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this means zapping openssl, realize.
asciilifeform: is the only reason i didn't do it.
mircea_popescu: i realise.
mircea_popescu: well... we also have to eval the new scp251 or w/e package.
mircea_popescu: mod6 spam is roughly 2x what it was yest. only 6.4k or so txn, vs 9k yest, however 65+mb worth
mod6: ok interesting.
mircea_popescu: oldest txn still from the 18th.
mircea_popescu: now of course, what exactly is the mempool as far as each node is concerned varies, and the miner's nodes especially. so it's an iffy thing. anyway.
mod6: re: entropy topic, perhaps ya, we can do something like this when we have a crypto lib 'eh?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i don't think we can not read the wtf is that thing called
mircea_popescu: libsecp256k1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i found the prb ecdsa thing quite distasteful
mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?
asciilifeform: not because it was written by hitler, but because the thing is 50x the mass it needs to be.
asciilifeform: as demonstrated by the nano-ecc folks
mircea_popescu: maybe.
mod6: hm
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1347815 << thread. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 22:12:24; asciilifeform: IF I CAN'T READ IT IN AN EVENING it is a turd
mircea_popescu: it's widely deployed.
mircea_popescu: it'll have to be read.
asciilifeform: l0l aha.
asciilifeform: like openssl.
mircea_popescu: " Bitcoin is described by enthusiasts as potentially being bigger than the Internet itself (a claim I can’t seem to understand, considering that Bitcoin is an Internet-powered technology),"
mircea_popescu: what is wrong with these idiots.
asciilifeform: btw does mircea_popescu intend to read the winblowz nt source too ?
asciilifeform: widely deployed !1111
mircea_popescu: if i were in that business.
mats: http://www.defensionem.com/u-s-military-now-in-control-of-syrian-air-base
assbot: U.S. Military Now In Control of Syrian Air Base | Defensionem ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmLEnm )
asciilifeform: http://www.defensionem.com/rise-fall-argentine-air-force << lulzy, from same www
assbot: The Rise and Fall of the Argentine Air Force | Defensionem ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmM5y1 )
mats: why nobody is talking about how usg is actively violating .sy sovereignty, idk
asciilifeform: no mention of kurt tank in the ^ oddly
mats: int'l law: for other people that are not usg.
asciilifeform: mats: usg does not believe in the sovereignty of any other crown anywhere
asciilifeform: this is not a mega-seekrit
mats: yes
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Fi0fDVt7I << oddity of the day.
assbot: 苏联歌曲《田野上坦克轰鸣》"На поле танки грохотали" - 中文版 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrOy6t )
asciilifeform: ^ perhaps only funny to phf and i.
asciilifeform: lulzy comments
asciilifeform: e.g., 'brothers, we will take washington together, you'll see'
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/0SRXEVV << lulfest
assbot: dpaste: 0SRXEVV: Terrill v. Gawker ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrOFPq )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Moar energy lulz
deedbot-: [Qntra] Concerns About United States Coal Industry Intensify - http://qntra.net/2016/01/concerns-about-united-states-coal-industry-intensify/
BingoBoingo: post updated. Forgot to close it with "Sorry for your loss"
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 405.87, vol: 8766.54447752 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.332, vol: 8124.70728 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.69, vol: 27213.50172144 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 395.0, vol: 4.64326783 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.16152, vol: 79649.22250000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 407.44999, vol: 777.80560536 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 415.494947755, vol: 110.20573996 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 409.260062078
adlai: trinque: deedbot- constipated again?
mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound ☟︎
trinque: adlai: its behind was behind when I checked a few minutes ago
trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd ☟︎
trinque shakes his head
trinque: adlai: deed should crap when it catches up; if it doesn't I'll be back later to kick it some more
thestringpuller: btcd the go thing?
thestringpuller: didn't conformal stop supporting btcd?
trinque: that would not surprise me
adlai: trinque: thank you for checking
trinque: yw. bbl
thestringpuller: trinque: y u no use trb?
adlai recommends people read the last submission... rediscovered it while browsing a bathroom bookshelf
adlai: for the classically-challenged lurkers: it's the last chapter of The Once and Future King, by T. H. White
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, the whole shebang's not worth 10mn.
mircea_popescu: whether that may mean gawker or tinder.
mircea_popescu: <mats> int'l law: for other people that are not usg. << it's widely reported in ru and chinese. "everyone"
mircea_popescu: the arabs also aren't all that keen.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380584 << cruddy ocr from cryptome ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:01:27; mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound
asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: https://octopart.com/xc6216-2hq240c-xilinx-10325634
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJTWT4 )
mircea_popescu: does anyone want CPU: 2 x Intel E5645 6x2x2.4GHz; RAM: 96GB; 8x180GB SSD for any purpose ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: what, for free?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: believe or not, i once wrote to the various folks claiming to have the 6216
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel no, for money o.O
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: back in... '09
asciilifeform: got a reply, even
asciilifeform: one antiquarian type offered it, for 400 or so
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379613 << strictly disallowed in my shop ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:38:10; mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: do continue.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the story ends there.
mircea_popescu: in other interbuttistic news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/b860c30bf1d675a8577958304430e459/tumblr_nwsd21EPcv1u6bcbyo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJUaK4 )
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the thing i wanted to do would've required several, and i lacked the dough at the time.
asciilifeform: plus the possibility of scam
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: How many, exactly?
asciilifeform: at least 8.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it should be possible to test them before purchase, right?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: how on earth do you propose to do THAT ?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379618 << dunno about this. laborious for certain, and would make the whole thing 10x more likely to 'fit in head'. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wtf?
asciilifeform: how does altering whitespace do anything for fit-in-head.
asciilifeform: GET A SANE EDITOR folks
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: to vendor: "if this is the real deal it should be able to run this program [include ascii file here], if it fries, I'm not buying it."
BingoBoingo: whitespace is all about fits in eyes, not head
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you do understand that these parts don't socket, right ?
gabriel_laddel: "send me photos of output"
ben_vulpes: consistency of code shape is a thing for mortals like myself
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I do not.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so how do I run a program on one of these things without a socket connection?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you mount it to a board
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: and what, load in a binary?
gabriel_laddel: can I unmount it afterwards without breaking it?
asciilifeform: http://www.diymodules.org/img/eagle-preview.php?type=usr&id=2221&file=XILINX.lbr&package=PGA299&wd=250&ht=250
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJUEji )
asciilifeform: and no.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Isn't the whole purpose of an FPGA that I can program it in place?
asciilifeform: incidentally there ~was~ once a socket for these (pga299)
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379662 << and how do you feel about mixed carriage returns and crlfs? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:56:38; mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes meh. they're equally stupid, but shouldn't get in the way of anything.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: fpga is pretty much never mounted in a socket (the low end xilinx cpld, e.g., 95xx series, do come in plcc - but high pin count makes this a bitch)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: btw why do you prefer tabs to 4 spaces?
mircea_popescu: it's in the log!
mod6: mircea_popescu: qq, would you be alright with this error message, as opposed to yours which has a line number in it: printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed in key.h:Sign()");
ben_vulpes: hm
mircea_popescu: mod6 sure.
mod6 is a bit worried that we may have to additionally maintain possible changing line numbers.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the other thing is that my understanding is that the 6216 was never produced in serious quantity
mircea_popescu: it's too soon for that, i guess.
mod6: ok cool. I think an error like that narrows it down pretty good.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: surely we can turn up eight of them.
mircea_popescu: (you have to understand - in principle, the extra maintenance is a mark of both fit in headness and "we really read these patches")
mircea_popescu: so it's not a bad thing. but maybe not its time yet.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it isn't like they're being used for something useful anywhere else.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you can turn up as many as you like and mount'em yourself.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya, not a bad thing at all. but yeah, maybe eventually we move to that once the source "cools down" so to speak.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu shudders at the simple count of how many return fail; there are that don't say anything else.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: To be clear, the part # for this is: XC6216-2HQ240C?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there were at least four package variants.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's after the legendary 'dragonfly' fpga.
mircea_popescu: i was listening to see what's that all about.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you ever design a pcb of whatever kind ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: got any phriendz who have ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: make some.
asciilifeform was not always a burned out old man, was once an eager sort of kid, like gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform even bought first fpga as a schoolboy without understanding that it will have to be mounted somewhere. still have it.
asciilifeform: wasn't up to making a pqfp144 0.5mm pitch pad for it in the kitchen.
BingoBoingo: ;;nethash
gribble: 804048104.027
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 394385 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/0K3mx
assbot: fbkkgzngvxgmhx5ddcmc.jpg (800x285 pixels) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoOvh4 )
mod6: ok i see what my hangup is.
mod6: so when i use Mr. P.'s pat: http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20iaFEr )
mod6: it pretty much applies the same, and if then I do a vdiff of a/bitcoin/src/key.h to b/bitcoin/src/key.h (where Mr. P.'s patch was applied in b/.../) then the diff looks the same.
mod6: only problem here is, it adds in spaces instead of tabs
mod6: so then if I go line by line adding tabs instead of the spaces, i get a bit of a different vdiff output as such:
mircea_popescu: mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/
jurov: mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__
BingoBoingo: NSFL, what C++ feels like https://sli.mg/a/GAS4S4
assbot: Diabetes - Infection, Osteomyelitis, Gangrene ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoOMQY )
mod6: http://dpaste.com/06G91Q7.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoONEv )
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__ << sounds good to me, can you give me a full example so I don't screw this up, ive never used tat before.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/ << lemme try with this. thx.
jurov: the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it
jurov: maybe __FILE__ gives full path, i don't remember, then it's not very desirable
mircea_popescu: it's just compiler directivation.
mircea_popescu: well, preprocessor technically.
mircea_popescu: simply gets replaced wit hthe right numbers pre compile time
jurov: but __LINE__ should be used in any case, and # causes it to be treated as string
mod6: hmm. same thing.
mod6: oh boy this is obnoxious.
mod6: maybe i need to go line by line and do it all by hand.
jurov: if you go ahead with tabs, do you want lxr to ignore whitespace changes in diffs?
mod6: <+jurov> the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it << would this work? : printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed at #__LINE__ in #__FILE__\n");
jurov: for me it was amusing to see the amount of bile spent on that
jurov: mod6 yes that should work
mod6: ima leave that out for now.
jurov: mod6 ^ that was answer to my lxr q?
mod6: ah, now. im gonna leave the #__LINE__ #__FILE__ thing out.
mod6: *no
mod6: *sigh*
mod6: i gotta figure out how to get this patch exactly correct. can't seem to do it.
jurov: what are you doing?
jurov: if your're applying s/ /\t/ straight to the diff, that won't work, the format does require space after + or -
mod6: no not straight to the diff.
mod6: post application
mod6: basically, im trying to get my +/- to look like mr. p.'s. but i can't seem to achieve that.
mod6: after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces.
mod6: and when I replace :293,331 s/ /\t/ it basically ends up looking like this:
mod6: http://dpaste.com/0MP6SVW.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20icml9 )
mod6: who knew that creating the patch would be harder than the code itself.
jurov: yes this is the wrong approach, you ended up with +\t there
jurov: why can't you replace with tabs *before* running diff?
mod6: huh, dunno, guess i could try that.
jurov: also, looks like you replaced only first " " in line anyway
jurov: s/ /\t/g replaces all occurences but best solution is to set vim (or any editor) to use only tabs
jurov: and then :retab
jurov: (or whatever equivalent your editor does)
asciilifeform: ftr i think the whitespace thing is lunacy
asciilifeform: USE MOTHERFUCKING EMACS
asciilifeform: i don't need 200kB diffs.
mod6: <+mod6> huh, dunno, guess i could try that. << failed to patch
asciilifeform: for anything.
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to mechanically retab the genesis and regen ALL OF THE VPATCHES - go ahead
asciilifeform: but this is an astonishing waste of time imho
asciilifeform: while rome burns.
jurov: meh, i'm like... let them have their whitespace/style holy wars, they'll learn someday
jurov: if mod6 learns to set up his editor to emit consistent kind of whitespace, then today was not wasted
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Nero isn't playing his fiddle yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056605 = 21.5393 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.00055795 = 32.3053 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: thestringpuller │ trinque: y u no use trb? << it's in the works.
trinque: looks like that'll happen in about 40k blox
mircea_popescu: <mod6> after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces. << i made a tab'd one, then asciilifeform wanted a different one so i made that too. which are you looking at ?
mod6: This one here: http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20iaFEr )
mircea_popescu: that's the 2nd one ?
mod6: lemme check
mircea_popescu: or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway
mod6: (13:43) <+mircea_popescu> mod6 http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5 << in the humble hope that it may serve. << first one
assbot: dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( http://bit.ly/1npzalm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 256700 @ 0.0005584 = 143.3413 BTC [+] {5}
mod6: (13:52) <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG << second one
assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( http://bit.ly/1npAFQi )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway << im starting to wonder...
ben_vulpes: aha, ms. smith made the log finally!
ben_vulpes waves to yves
mod6: i did a `wget http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5.txt -O mp.first.diff` and the tabs in the + side seem to be preserved.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXD01E )
mod6: but I didn't apply that one, just the second.
mod6: lemme see on that one.
mod6: yah, second one has no tabs at all.
mircea_popescu: heh. so i try to use inept merchant. inept merchant doesn't take bitcoin, but takes a variety of bullshit "payment processors", one of which "payza". i go whatever, they pop up a 0.04blabla btc, which i pay. turns out THEY WON'T PROCESS the payment they advertised until you "verify", ie click on some link in email. so i do. turns out they still won't process the payment they advertised, untill you... fill a form. so i
mircea_popescu: fill a form. turns out they... STILL won't process the payment they advertised, unti... you upload "documents". and they'll send your bitcoin back, of course. ALSO after you upload "documents".
ben_vulpes: heh clever
mircea_popescu: consequently, ikf anyone wants a payza account with 16 bux in it, it's crap@trilema.com, gangbangA1, and 12345678 "pin" w/e the shit that is.
mircea_popescu: have fun.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, totally so very clever they'll spend thousands of dollars to dig themselves out of this pr hole and wonder why it dun work.
ben_vulpes: clever enough to get in trouble.
mircea_popescu: how this shit usually works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.0005574 = 44.369 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski aha, ty
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski also, considering a jeep cherokee or a toyota land cruiser of 2000 and 89 vintage for babywagon, any thoughts on either?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: goals being low tco, ease of finding parts and cost of maintenance hours.
mircea_popescu: mod6 2nd one is deliberately made to not have tabs so as not to offend alf's diff.
ben_vulpes: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/ << seconded for an in-depth discussion of the static build crapocalypse, and why we even bother with static builds anyways at the very least
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXE2uA )
mircea_popescu: 18<asciilifeform> but this is an astonishing waste of time imho << is it me or is this tack exactly opposite of what you were saying 6 hours ago ?!
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379617 ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:24; asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~
asciilifeform: it is
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: so which is it ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379618 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
mircea_popescu: how would it do that ?
asciilifeform: by having 600KB of crud to read!
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380503 << aye, to the extent that i 'learned cpp', and to the extent that i can even be said to 'know' any other programming language. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:51:59; asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.
asciilifeform: because it touches every line ?
mircea_popescu: you don't have to read anything. apparently you don't even read the log lines!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379678 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
mircea_popescu: it's absolutely machine-verifiable, you also get some people's signatures, what's the problem.
asciilifeform: so genesis-2 ?
ben_vulpes: 'scouring of spaces' means the tab-replacement?
mircea_popescu: myea
asciilifeform: why not also get rid of the idiot { on own line thing then.
asciilifeform: and the ( foo )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24918 @ 0.0005574 = 13.8893 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: stop moving the fucking discussion omfg.
ben_vulpes: WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT ☟︎
asciilifeform: hey the tabs thing only matters because mircea_popescu insists on programming in 'nano'
mircea_popescu: you just said
mircea_popescu: o god.
mircea_popescu: i dun have the energy to chase this. whatevs.
asciilifeform: hey if the man wants to program in 'nano' who am i to say.
asciilifeform: i can only take off my hat...
asciilifeform: anyway, who wants to regenesis, go.
mircea_popescu: barrier to coding should properly be "is willing to :retab back and forth forever because idiocy is contagious and we gotta argue all sides of any point".
asciilifeform: i'll sign.
ben_vulpes: 'regenesis' << actually start over?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nah, see above
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one day your "idiocy is contagious and fixing it a collosal waste of time and i've changed my mind and wah wah" thing'll land you in the soup.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you did not understand what i meant when said 'contagious'
mircea_popescu: apparently.
asciilifeform: specifically that i saw leaving the formatting alone as a forced thing.
mircea_popescu: is the formatting as is idiocy or is it not idiocy.
asciilifeform: sure is
asciilifeform: but it ranked dead last on my list of what must be fixed.
mircea_popescu: then i fail to understand what objection you have.
mircea_popescu: this is not what you said, neither at the first juncture, nor at the 2nd juncture.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380586 << this is my fault and i am terribly sorry ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:06:34; trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd
asciilifeform: trb has papercut on one arm, gangrene in the other.
mircea_popescu: but anyway. off to cinephile.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Sounds like other arm could use papercut too, but cranked up to 11
asciilifeform: but if you want to auto-munge the whole thing, why not
trinque: ben_vulpes: whatwhatwhat ?
ben_vulpes: i set you on the btcd snipe hunt aeons ago iirc
mod6: so this is what i'm gonna do
mod6: im gonna add the code to key.h by hand.
mod6: then im gonna add tabs infront of all the non-empty lines in Sign()
mod6: and we'll go from there.
trinque: ben_vulpes: now it's stuck on a block 1-2 back, because reasons
trinque: ah nah it finally went
trinque: and so shall I, gnite #b-a
ben_vulpes: o/
mod6: ok here we are: http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXGjpF )
mod6: if you do a pull of that patch (be sure to obviously run dos2unix on it to get rid of CRLF), you should see that all of the lines in key.h:Sign() have tabs in front of them.
mod6: i guess we can pick this up tomorrow, or whenever.
mod6: i apprecaite you all trying to help me.
ben_vulpes: hey mod6
ben_vulpes: i may simply be exhausted, but i don't see immediately how the code inside the two branches is supposed to work
mod6: ok.
mod6: so, by example
mod6: let's do fLowS first.
ben_vulpes: i get the conditional branching on the flag, but now how the identical code in the branches enforces high/low-s-ness
ben_vulpes: okay, fLowS it is.
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this line: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already low.
mod6: next example
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) evaluates to 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: then we do this line:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s is assigned to 10000 - 60000 ; sig->s now = 40000
mod6: bah
mod6: *100000
mod6: you follow?
ben_vulpes still reading
mod6: i'll note the code is not *identical* it does have different greater than, less than signs.
ben_vulpes: forgive further derpitude, but how on earth does `BN_CTX_get(ctx)` return two different values?
mod6: ima point you at this for right now, and we can discuss all of that later perhaps: http://linux.die.net/man/3/bn_ctx_get
assbot: bn_ctx_get(3): use temporary BIGNUM variables - Linux man page ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXJ5v7 )
mod6: this too: http://linux.die.net/man/3/bn_ctx_new
assbot: bn_ctx_new(3): allocate/free BN_CTX structures - Linux man page ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXJ6iw )
mod6: etc, there are man pages for each.
ben_vulpes: roger.
ben_vulpes: will read more.
mod6: ok, so did the first and second case for fLowS make sense then?
ben_vulpes: ah i see
ben_vulpes: need to read more. let's revisit tomorrow.
mod6: ok
mod6: i'll type this out anyway.
mod6: so now on to fHighS
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already high
mod6: next example
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: then we jump into the if block and execu:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: again [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s = 100000 - 40000.
mod6: sig->s == 60000 (or "high")
mod6: volla
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker--market all
gribble: Error: "ticker--market" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 399.37, vol: 10882.56721678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 400.3, vol: 8384.13004 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.5, vol: 36247.56345948 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.2, vol: 6.22430836 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 399.00304, vol: 88223.39620000 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 414.544176, vol: 125.53458151 | Volume-weighted last average: 398.740525367
BingoBoingo: !up jimmy16
ben_vulpes: ugh cpp
ben_vulpes: fucking pointers and in place mutation
ben_vulpes breathes through the nausea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33850 @ 0.00055963 = 18.9435 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: AND NOW I BLESS THEE WITH THE HOLY BIGNUM THIS FUNCTION PASSES ALL AROUND ITSELF
BingoBoingo: https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/File:Gamerfruit.png
assbot: File:Gamerfruit.png - Lolcow Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ku4Ydl )
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 415 @ 0.00263136 = 1.092 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57067 @ 0.00055677 = 31.7732 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: "As always when a large group of people without prior exposure to Jace are introduced to his world, every single existing theory on his authenticity was brought up and discussed in great detail, as were questions concerning the state of mental health care in the United States, the situation of veterans, and the practicality of using a Prius in a street race." << ladies and gentlemen, i present...my peers in the eyes of american law.
ben_vulpes: https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/Operation_Wu-Pocalypse
assbot: Operation Wu-Pocalypse - Lolcow Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0GgGH )
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo just stumbled upon this lulz catalog yesterday after getting my quarterly fix of CWC updates
ben_vulpes: "the reason why cops call it the web is because, The online is a 'Web' of lies and/or Computers are Satans kingdom on earth"
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380404 nothing, it's a comedy sketch ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 23:23:04; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380386 << da fuck does that even mean
BingoBoingo: Basically Ironman's that movie where batman finally spends enough Hodl to build a suit that lets him do all the things superman does
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 401 @ 0.00263798 = 1.0578 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.0005567 = 29.7835 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed ☟︎☟︎
assbot: Amazon Hires Homeless Workers – And Everyone Ends Up Disappointed | KUOW News and Information ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCQmA0 )
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3692 ☟︎
assbot: JL: Insane Welfare Whore Alliance ... ( http://bit.ly/20isW4C )
BingoBoingo: punkman: from same wrap http://kuow.org/post/goat-rentals-take-seattle-first-day-amazon-home-services
assbot: Goat Rentals Take Off In Seattle On First Day Of Amazon Home Services | KUOW News and Information ... ( http://bit.ly/20itWpe )
danielpbarron: http://www.fastcompany.com/3055510/these-vibrating-yoga-pants-will-correct-your-downward-dog >> For example, if your hip is rotated too far inwards in warrior pose, a vibration will move across the hip in an outwards direction, like the guiding hands of a yoga instructor. When everything’s aligned, the tights give off a gentle "om" hum.
assbot: These Vibrating Yoga Pants Will Correct Your Downward Dog ... ( http://bit.ly/20iuqM2 )
danielpbarron: >> The Nadi tights, which were announced at CES and will be available for pre-sale in May, can survive up to 25 washes. << planned obsolescence, now for pants!
BingoBoingo: lol
punkman: you know there are clothes that can survive 0 washes
punkman: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/510e844de4b0837c157cabb1/t/569a060876d99c4f391154fe/1452934668171/Kayla_Varley-09.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8RSsr )
punkman: http://www.tilera.com/products/?ezchip=585&spage=614<< these would be fun for "industrial-strength node", at least after some parallelizing
assbot: 500 - Internal server error. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8SCO7 )
punkman: https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=CCR10098GS1S-PC&eq=&Tp=&o1=0
assbot: MikroTik&nbspCCR1009-8G-1S-PC - Cloud Core Router w/ 9 core Passive Cool ... ( http://bit.ly/20ivRKx )
BingoBoingo: http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/fall/liftSeat.oncare ☟︎
assbot: OnCare LiftSeat - Powered Toilet Lift - OnCare ... ( http://bit.ly/20ixh7U )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158150 @ 0.00055619 = 87.9614 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: "The OnCare™ LiftSeat® Powered Toilet Lift™ features LiftTek™ core assistive technology" "patent-pending drop-in commode bucket"
punkman: http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/wound/dolphin.oncare pretty cool
assbot: Dolphin Fluid Immersion Simulation - Therapeutic Bed & Mattress - OnCare ... ( http://bit.ly/20izFeH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00055672 = 13.751 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43650 @ 0.00055903 = 24.4017 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Hello TheNewDeal
TheNewDeal: oh hi there
BingoBoingo: How have you been?
TheNewDeal: so so, how bout you?
BingoBoingo: Not to bad
BingoBoingo: *too
BingoBoingo: They still out to get you?
deedbot-: [Qntra] FBI Begins Negotiations With Oregon Liberators - http://qntra.net/2016/01/fbi-begins-negotiations-with-oregon-liberators/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31250 @ 0.00055672 = 17.3975 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00055704 = 20.8054 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00055751 = 27.6525 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380835 << yeah well, that's sheer insanity. i wouldn't. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 04:16:03; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
mircea_popescu: my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ?
mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: especially after hanging out here i trust c++ about as much as php with these sorts of things
mircea_popescu: the wisdom seems to be that "don't fucking memcpy by hand, the compiler inlines (or even register-moves) most assignments itself and unlike you it fucking knows when to do it", but hey.
mircea_popescu: i can't help myself but suspect there may have been a good reason for the weird, even given the immense piles of pointless insanity scattered throughout the code.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00055695 = 12.0301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << did cosmo kramer (ex ceo, kramerica industries) end up hired as vp for fluentization and finally got to push through his pet project of homeless-driven rickshaws in new york or something ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed
mircea_popescu: "If there is someone at this point who can look at Jace's insane rambling during this event and take it as a credible threat to Brianna Wu's life, they are either willfully misconstruing the facts or being intentionally alarmist to the point of complete credibility loss. " mno. they are being obtuse to the point of well adjusted, functioning ustard. how the fuck else does anything work in that country ? look at a dumb
mircea_popescu: lazy kid and write down "student", look at a weirdo babbling and write down "threat report", the whole meta-state survives out of categorical confusion of this sort.
mircea_popescu: "The number of video views rose to almost 40,000 within a day" << sigh. this is notable in what fucking alt-world ? i remember the earlier days of "omaigerd teh interwebs matter" when the numbers destined to impress the reader were in the millions. by now it's as if "consensus" has been achieved around the proposition that such a statement is impressive period, and the number's irrelevant. 40k people viewed every singl
mircea_popescu: e fucking concrete support in every town that has a subway that same day. what of it!
mircea_popescu: "On GamerGhazi, comments explaining that Jace was little more than an elaborate hoax were deleted, because they did not fit Wu's harassment narrative." <doh.
mircea_popescu: aaanyway.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.44000000 BTC on 'No' - BTC price to rise above PM price of 1oz of gold before Oct 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1235/btc-price-to-rise-above-pm-price-of/#b16
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380928 << actually i'd say this is his best one yet. slowly a sort of milleresque dickensian balzac may emerge out of that fellow. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 08:01:50; BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3692
mircea_popescu: but in any case the improvement over time is marked.
mircea_popescu: Steevo moaned, “I can’t even afford a pizza for the wife and kid on Friday night << the depth of the fucking disconnect. i wouldn't even eat what he calls pizza, if it were free. in fact i'd have serious compunction giving it to some begging dude.
mircea_popescu: there must be some exaggeration involved, somewhere.
mircea_popescu: but, in other news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/1b5f941158bb4e3e22703dbaed3a75a8/tumblr_nllissMVc81upsme5o1_400.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBThoZ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58350 @ 0.00056236 = 32.8137 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: http://3lproject.org/ lisp OS vaporware
assbot: The 3L Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVpgo )
mircea_popescu: in other news : the title for stealing the highest traffic website doesn't go to the derps you'd expect, but to the russkis equivalent. http://jw.org
assbot: Jehovah’s Witnesses—Official Website: jw.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVrFb )
punkman: huh?
mircea_popescu: dig jw.org
mircea_popescu: ;; ANSWER SECTION: jw.org. 3471 IN A 212.1.224.74
gribble: Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056678 = 12.4692 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: also known as the creepy people that stalk you in city subway terminals hawking magazines.
mircea_popescu: aha. apparently verboten in russia.
shinohai: Does that apply to all proselytizing though?
mircea_popescu: i'm sure if they could.
shinohai: http://i.imgur.com/DXUmKLZ.png?1
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBYJbq )
mircea_popescu: supposedly 4chan accepts bitcoin payments.... except when you go to pay them, they take paypal and the ccs. what sorta bs is this, are these people living in 2011 or somesuch ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13836 @ 0.00056535 = 7.8222 BTC [-]
jurov: http://www.newstarget.com/2016-01-21-biotech-scientists-now-raising-human-animal-chimeras-on-u-s-farms.html
assbot: Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... ( http://bit.ly/1WASQOL )
mircea_popescu: this has been going on for decades now.
mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc ☟︎
mircea_popescu: also someone tell newstarget.com that hostgator is stealing their 404s
PeterL: Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... << wasn't there already a thread about sheepfucking?
mircea_popescu: lol
thestringpuller: So Victoria from changetip in her youth: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=97ef9c62-b97d-43bf-afe4-7dfc06d20559
mod6: morning!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Not very "warm and fuzzy" on the openssl trust factor either. Would some tests or debugging help around this part?
mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00056372 = 24.7473 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381007 << these were not chimeras ! but immunocompromised beasts ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 14:57:50; mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
mircea_popescu: yawell.
ascii_butugychag: in exactly the same sense that man who eats chicken is not a man-chicken chimera.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380965 << how could this possibly be true ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 12:42:36; mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
mircea_popescu: hm ?
ascii_butugychag: these statements don't even refer to the same destination
ascii_butugychag: am i missing something ?
mircea_popescu: mmm nah just me being sloppy
ascii_butugychag: hm ok
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this.
mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies. ☟︎
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << this kind of sad is well-known from the 'hired welfare fella and now he's poorer' thing ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed
mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is ☟︎
mircea_popescu: right ?
ascii_butugychag: can just say vchSig
mircea_popescu: so i wasn't being sloppy.
mircea_popescu: my question is : are these two in fact equivalent. because we can end up with surprises in this sort of change.
ascii_butugychag: which is the other ?
ascii_butugychag: (other side of the equivalence)
mircea_popescu: dawg.... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381029 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381032 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:10; mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:34; mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
mircea_popescu: c++ is fucking impossible to follow.
ascii_butugychag: both statements are correct
ascii_butugychag: but they are not equivalent
mircea_popescu: ok but aren't they intended to be functionally equivalent by the patch ?
ascii_butugychag goes to read the patch
mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt is what i'm working on atm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXGjpF )
ascii_butugychag: aha already found it
ascii_butugychag: these are only marginally easier to read than to write...
ascii_butugychag: (which is why i normally like to write'em)
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: from what i hear from people who'd know, tis a common affliction.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the bit is in the horse's mouth : trb will be more read than wrot.
ascii_butugychag notices that boss is mysteriously missing
ascii_butugychag: perhaps he did not want to get marooned in this tower.
ascii_butugychag: (there is supposed to be a snow fall tonight in this part of the world, train stations will close, etc)
mircea_popescu: someone should someday write the anthropological study about the impact of katrina in the media. it's when derping pointlessly about the weather went from ridiculous to social expectation.
kakobrekla: since when do trains stop working if its snowing?
ascii_butugychag: i would have ignored it but there was much noise about preemptive closing of the trains
ascii_butugychag: which is a new thing
ascii_butugychag: lived here since '92 and it never happened.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla since the infrastructure hasn'\t been maintained in 30 years.
ascii_butugychag: also they sent usg home
ascii_butugychag: even white house apparently skeleton-crewed
ascii_butugychag: (no word on whether obamitler is buttoned up inside or went off to the tropics)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the other best korea, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1i-h-m3G4
assbot: Crazy Russian Snow Plowing - Train Snow Plowing - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpztRH )
ascii_butugychag: i suspect that usa isn't ~long~ enough to feature this scene
ascii_butugychag: (you need not only snow but rails that aren't traversed regularly)
mircea_popescu: a proper snowstorm can drop ten feet overnight.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: shouldn't you be at home. you don't want to get stranded in the uranium mines.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: nobody cancelled the uranium mines.
PeterL: what does DC get, like a half an inch at a time and they shut down? Up north here we don't blink at a foot of snow.
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: normally. result is that the place is grossly underequipped for anything like reasonable snow, and traffic grinds to a halt
ascii_butugychag: when there actually is some
ascii_butugychag: (which happens every coupla years)
PeterL: y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow
thestringpuller: PeterL: You guys have more than 1 snowplow for the whole state.
thestringpuller: PeterL: your roads are also the worst thing to drive on ever.
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuX4G3znpDE pretty cool
assbot: Rotary Snow Plow - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpArxo )
PeterL: just don't drink the water if you are driving through Flint
ascii_butugychag: doesn't help that d.c. roads are packed to 110% even without any snow or rain etc
ascii_butugychag: as for why they'd close the trains, i cannot say except that the latter are in a historic state of disrepair.
ascii_butugychag: every day one gets stuck, rails crack, various joys
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41798 @ 0.00055672 = 23.2698 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_butugychag: and dc metro dept. pulls interesting tricks - retains ~half the staff actually needed so that the remaining can work mandatory overtime and earn ~200K-usd
mircea_popescu: PeterL> y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow << ho i knew took a (well earned) vacation to morocco in the middle of the carpathian winter once. her fondest memory was that there was a tiny bit of snow just as she got ou of the bus, and everyone in sight was on their ass. "they have no idea how to walk on snow, the africans!"
mircea_popescu: !up terminal
PeterL: is that terminal as in cancer or terminal as in computer, or as in train station?
terminal: good question
thestringpuller: Grand Central Terminal is the train station
thestringpuller: Grand Central Station is the post office
terminal: it's cool and ambiguous
terminal: who knows
PeterL: ah, but who are you?
terminal: I'm a guy who's thinking about buying a significant amount of ETH
thestringpuller: Why?
thestringpuller: Guaranteed loss.
mircea_popescu: wow check it out, the things that exist.
shinohai: O.o
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable ☝︎☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 13:40:52; *: adlai notes, as a humorous aside, that someday there needs to be a rock-off between PeterL and PeterR
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 13:41:39; mircea_popescu: lol no idea ? your isomer ?
terminal: Why a guaranteed loss?
thestringpuller: PeterL: you're a chemist right?
PeterL: yeah
mircea_popescu: PeterL hey, best humour is sloppy!
terminal: I'm a software developer who is interested in the ecosystem, I see a lot of practicality in ethereum. Mostly I'm just looking for longterm gains
mircea_popescu: terminal well, get in the wot and let us know how your trade went as far as long term gains.
terminal: wot?
terminal: Why the negative sentiment about ethereum here?
mircea_popescu: !s ethereum
assbot: 529 results for 'ethereum' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ethereum
mircea_popescu: can start reading teh logs.
punkman: terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: hehehe
shinohai: kek
terminal: Thanks for that mircea
punkman: hey ETH's back to 0.00387
mircea_popescu: !up sergiohlb
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056678 = 15.133 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: punkman: so the suckers took the bait...
mircea_popescu: !up AdrianG
AdrianG: thx.
AdrianG: ethereum could have short-term momentum due to investors interest, its far more preferable to mention it in corporate pitches vs bitcoin.
thestringpuller: that's because investors seem to be borderline scandalous these days.
PeterL: obligatory http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )
thestringpuller: Bitcoin isn't yieling what they have come to expect, so lets through fiat at Ehtereum and see what happens.
AdrianG: terminal: scandalous how?
mircea_popescu: AdrianG if what you aim is to make money out of the vc circus, you're very much in the wrong spot.
thestringpuller: ;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money
gribble: The problem of too much money on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Money, fucking and lying on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/money-fucking-and-lying/>; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation "problem" on Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this- (1 more message)
thestringpuller: AdrianG: ^-obligatory
mircea_popescu: like every fashion-driven scam, gotta keep ahead of the wavefront, not sit behind.
AdrianG: i remember at the peak of btc 2013 heights, litecoin was something around 11% of the btc marketcap
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: guess that's how TaT made bank on the ASICMINER scam.
AdrianG: some spillover is inevitable
mircea_popescu: heh, the usg can't afford to throw away half a bil just for this.
mircea_popescu: some spillover, sure.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: if you are trying to extract fiat profits from Bitcoin, you've got some learnin' to do.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: as for bitcoin not doing what investors expect, ethereum can be shoehorned into their needs much more easily
mircea_popescu: certainly.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: and this is good thing because?
mircea_popescu: the only problem with their "needs" is that their needs are a certain path to their own doom.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: good is subjective. its just a perception.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: there is sanity and insanity. You don't try to run a business with insanit expecting it to function.
thestringpuller: Most Bitcoin VC cirus shows are like watching a very long episode of the Profit without Marcus Lemonis.
AdrianG: why is using something like ethereum insanity?
thestringpuller: because Buterin has a big head.
mircea_popescu: what's your idea of "using" ?
AdrianG: thestringpuller: he's just very skinny
thestringpuller: They said that about Dib from Invader Zim and he obviously didn't amount to much.
thestringpuller: Just the insane musings of a derp with too big of a head.
AdrianG: mircea_popescu: i think a programmable ledger has legitimate uses. unfortunately for ethereum holders, those ledgers are going to be private and inaccessible from outside.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why you think this is a use.
AdrianG: that it has uses?
mircea_popescu: the comet W52C2 also "has legitimate uses".
mircea_popescu: who's using it ?
AdrianG: banks are drowning in legacy code. anything that helps them to move away from it is useful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00056679 = 10.8257 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is a very naive view.
AdrianG: even as just an experiment, really.
mircea_popescu: an unhappily married woman is drowning in sorrow
mircea_popescu: any cock rubbing on her is useful ?
mircea_popescu: what are we, 15 ?
mircea_popescu: malformed, dysfunctional, self-contradictory, defeated propositions aren't better than the currently chosen broken one. the broken one hasn't been chosen on technical merit.
AdrianG: what makes you so certain it has no uses whatsoever?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly why all the "oh, bitcoin needs x" "oh, bitcoin must or else Y will" bla bla is meaningless.
AdrianG: thats a very broad view
mircea_popescu: i like broads.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: you're failing to realize how terminal the system is right now.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: i never argued against that.
mircea_popescu: take your window, on the presumption that you are currently located in a room with one. this window of yours COULD be used as a door, to a larger degree than ethereum could be used to anything.
mircea_popescu: neveretheless... have you used it as a door ? will you ?
thestringpuller: AdrianG: Yes but you are arguing for trying to teach a sickly man to learn how to dunk a basketball.
AdrianG: why do you guys only speak in strawmen? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: o.O
thestringpuller: Just because with cybernetics "he could" but should he?
mircea_popescu: illustrate this!
AdrianG: cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits
mircea_popescu: o noes they terminated terminal! YOU BASTIDS
mircea_popescu: AdrianG how does this make the window a strawman ?
AdrianG: they can just basically automate a lot of regulatory compliance and cut out humans
mircea_popescu: of course, the other way to automate regulatory bs is to ignore it until it goes away.
thestringpuller: ^-this
mircea_popescu: seems much cheaper.
PeterL: <AdrianG> cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits << why do they need etherum for this? just sign bits of the normal ledger as they are made, why do you need to involve cryptocurrency?
AdrianG: PeterL: it would have nothing to do with cryptocurrency ofc.
AdrianG: ethereum as a cryptocurrency itself is probably useless.
thestringpuller: PeterL: better yet http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374612 ☝︎
AdrianG: PeterL: it would be just a private instance, or a federated peg at best.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: so...
AdrianG: and signing the normal ledger, is just a small part, programmability gives you a lot more flexibility to code business logic in.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: how does this not differ from: "it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other."
thestringpuller: Buterin's view of how a contract works is highly skewed.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: it differs in that an implementation already exists.
thestringpuller: except ethereum assumes all individuals in a contract act as machines. Better yet why not make them all machines!
mircea_popescu: AdrianG implementation is not per se valuable, for the sad reason that it is much cheaper to write code than to read it.
AdrianG: mircea_popescu: people tend to re-use existing stuff.
mircea_popescu: anyone in business will prefer to write de novo rather than audit the dubious code of the crowd of idiot kids gathered around that buteriun dude.
mircea_popescu: NOBODY reuses anything. this has not happened yet.
mircea_popescu: it's a delusion, born fundamentally out of a lack of business experience.
AdrianG: banks' software depends on thousands of libraries written by random hobos
AdrianG: it wouldnt be anything new
mircea_popescu: i guess by this argument we shall invest in hobos.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: actually it's mostly a lot of java/vb code written by indian d00ds.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller he's technically correct, they just stole it and delivered it, but anyway.
thestringpuller: aha
thestringpuller: i've invested in hobos. not really an investment as much as charity.
thestringpuller: it's also better to pay them in 40s than actual money
AdrianG: thestringpuller: sure, random indian d00ds
AdrianG: its not qualitatively different from code written by random hobos
mircea_popescu: well, so get in the wot, look into v and be happy.
mircea_popescu: better investment than chasing cephaloids' dubious fortunes at mit.
PeterL: does trb debug.log grow infinitely? ☟︎
AdrianG: look into v?
punkman: PeterL: it compacts on startup iirc
PeterL: so should I do something to it while it is running?
mircea_popescu: !v ascii_butugychag
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
punkman: PeterL: I guess you could rotate the log
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
mircea_popescu: AdrianG http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/
assbot: The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgC7ZS )
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i've been wondering, what the nazi variant of 'v' might look like
mircea_popescu: more links in thar.
ascii_butugychag: or does it even make sense to suppose that usg uses anything of the kind
punkman: probably involves smartcards?
ascii_butugychag: they have a bastardized pgp, for instance
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag ever met a govt employee that welcomed accountability ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: no, but i've met hordes who just ~loved~ faux-accountability
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: so what would the paper car look like ?
mircea_popescu: well... as much as a car without combustion as possible.
jurov: they do try at NASA, but they do it in meritocracy way
mircea_popescu: didn't nasa get its funding cut for this ?
jurov: i.e. ennumerating mistakes, not people
mircea_popescu: lol, because mistakes, rather than people, are finite. gg.
jurov: dunno about funding, but it's nice example to avoiding accountability
mircea_popescu: i still recall the feynman conundrum. to me it's the archetype for this.
ascii_butugychag: it is not enough, for a classic bureaucrat, to avoid accountability; he has to put in scar tissue that gives the appearance thereof
mircea_popescu: remember ? the o rings ?
trinque: ascii_butugychag: sounds like a centralized CVS/SVN repo where sigs "vote" for what constitutes the master branch
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i think everybody remembers the o-rings
mircea_popescu: trust, but verify!
ascii_butugychag: it was when feynman became a popular cult figure
jurov: oh i meant pirely software development
mircea_popescu: o ?
jurov: no idea about possiblility of signing hardware
mircea_popescu privately bets alfie will mention the three russian stooges thing.
ascii_butugychag: i think i already mentioned them in the logz
mircea_popescu: aok
ascii_butugychag: interestingly, i did some digging,
ascii_butugychag: turns out that the '3' system was possibly saharov's idea
ascii_butugychag: and borrowed by korolev
ascii_butugychag: rather than vice-versa
ascii_butugychag: but i'm probably the last one alive who gives half a shit
mircea_popescu: seeing how the men in question were unfortunate to die befgore the bible.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the future there will be the principal cause of war :
mircea_popescu: different branches in the wot disputing which earlier node to be credited with x.
ascii_butugychag: as in sunni vs shia ?
mircea_popescu: quite, but with crypto verification.
ascii_butugychag: l0lzies
mircea_popescu: !up terminal2
mircea_popescu: terminal2 http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ and for that matteer
assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpJ1vR )
mircea_popescu: !help
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
kakobrekla: help isnt adequate for joining wot really, this is better http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets
assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )
mircea_popescu: ah kk.
mircea_popescu: can we has !wot ?
kakobrekla: prolly
terminal2: Thanks mircea
PeterL: can we has !wot <nick> where the links get sent from assbot to <nick> instead of dumping in chan?
PeterL: proly want to limit the number of times assbot responds to stop spam vector?
kakobrekla: noobs are often blind to pms
PeterL: oh, nevermind then
mircea_popescu: it doesn't hurt anything being linked in chan anyway.
mircea_popescu: gets indexed better.
mircea_popescu: but if you';re sick of seeing it you should be able to config your client to ignore that line.
terminal2: I've never had a GPG key before lol. I will make one tonight. On ETH: While I don't see a reason for established companies to re-use ethereum - I think you need to account for all the companies nerd kids will create ontop of it - which will grow
terminal2: Migrating a DAO off of ethereum would not be an easy thing to do in most cases
terminal2: It's a very sticky platform
PeterL: all the "companies" will be amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
terminal2: Only takes a couple of breakout successes to make ETH take off I think
thestringpuller: terminal2: oh like ASICMINER
mircea_popescu: terminal2 by this reasoning you really should invest in toilets.
terminal2: Don't know anything about ASICMINER
mircea_popescu: think of all the growth the kids will create on top of their parent's food!
terminal2: Toilets would have been great to invest in before they were owned by everyone
terminal2: Now everyone has a toilet
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Just to touch back on this again - I'd like to see more of this. If you happen to be reading through the code, and there is a question, ask - let's discuss.
thestringpuller: terminal2: ASICMINER actually delivered on their IPO, their stock skyrocketed. However due to insane management that seems to be very common in the mining world, the company imploded.
mod6: And 'you' in the sense of all of us. Not just Mr. P.
mircea_popescu: mod6 kinda what my thinking is.
mod6: I think it's vital that we all gain a good grasp of what the intricacies are in this code - myself included.
thestringpuller: d00d. once you hit block 280k it chugs so slow.
mod6: ya it happens.
thestringpuller: 100k blocks to go ~_~ eta like 1 more week
thestringpuller: and this is a decent PC.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the thing is, that 10`000 we took out - while very sensible to be out and belongs out - could very well had been covering up for say an openssl bug.
mircea_popescu: like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow.
thestringpuller: well openssl will eventually need to be excised as well, what to replace it with, I don't know.
mircea_popescu: while cutting out crud we could get away with less poring, but as we add / change / etc it becomes ever more problematic.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: wouldn't unit testing coverage prevent some of this from becoming a problem?
ascii_butugychag: no.
mircea_popescu: it will catch all the bugs it catches
mircea_popescu: and not catch all the bugs it doesn't catch.
ascii_butugychag: !s dijkstra testing
assbot: 1 results for 'dijkstra testing' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dijkstra+testing
mircea_popescu: nono, i prefer my own quote! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381014 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:31:49; mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
thestringpuller: so what? like bug that exists that needs to exist?
mircea_popescu: no, like bug whose wot you're not in.
thestringpuller: If you have expected behavior there should be a way to measure if that behavior changes due to something introduced into the system.
thestringpuller: i don't know in practice how "unknown unknowns" affect the system.
ascii_butugychag: there are exactly three mechanisms known for creating correctness:
ascii_butugychag: in order of decreasing idiocy,
ascii_butugychag: 1) fits-in-head. also known popularly as 'knowing precisely wtf you're doing'
ascii_butugychag: 2) mathematical proof
ascii_butugychag: 3) testing.
ascii_butugychag: increasing idiocy.
ascii_butugychag: l0l
trinque: the goddamned deedbot node would not sync no matter what... untli I changed his external IP
ascii_butugychag: trinque: if it's not a seekrit: why does deedbot use a heathen bitcoinatron ?
trinque: because his new trb node is at 152k
trinque: *352k
ascii_butugychag: ah hm
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow. << i very much agree with this methodology.
mircea_popescu: trinque i suspect this is what drove alf's ideas of you know, deliberate sabotage against trb nodes.
mircea_popescu: you're not the first to see such wonders.
trinque: I have seen ample evidence to suggest it in deedbot's logz
trinque: in related news, deedbot- will be back when I figure out why it can no longer connect to freenode, having only changed his external IP
ascii_butugychag: here's a riddle. why no straight tcp ddos against any of'em ?
ascii_butugychag: why this wankery.
ascii_butugychag: what, usg botnet only works on trilema ?
ascii_butugychag: i suppose the theory is that we are morons, and will conclude that 'trb is broken, can't sync' ?
trinque: ascii_butugychag: http://dpaste.com/1R6PACY.txt << for example
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OLyQDK )
ascii_butugychag: that looks like a full relay ?
trinque: ascii_butugychag: was there something else I was supposed to say aside from NICK to get going?
trinque: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: PASS and USER ?
ascii_butugychag: e.g.,
ascii_butugychag: PASS none
ascii_butugychag: NICK luser
ascii_butugychag: USER blah
punkman: terminal2: Now everyone has a toilet << not true, and good chance you'll make more money investing in toilets than ETH
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380943 BB even shared toilet investment opportunity earlier ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 09:03:57; BingoBoingo: http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/fall/liftSeat.oncare
ascii_butugychag: i prefer mircea_popescu's idea
ascii_butugychag: have been thinking about it
ascii_butugychag: it would probably look something like a nagant cylinder turned up
ascii_butugychag: (7-seats variant ?)
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag incidentally, i suspect you'll find the latest quite very interesting, if you manage to wade through it all.
ascii_butugychag: but really in his harem scenario i'd imagine he would build something more like a horseshoe shape, so the users can face one another
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: the grep output ?
mircea_popescu: no, on trilema\
ascii_butugychag reads
thestringpuller: Can we get a graph like this: https://camo.githubusercontent.com/43c79ffbe5c5db49c01d5546ce1b57b2f1e83b21/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6f62634c6a44442e706e67?
thestringpuller: subtract the question mark at the end :(
mircea_popescu: does 0.12 even do any validation anymore ?
thestringpuller: no.
thestringpuller: I want to see where the "churn" is in TRB.
thestringpuller: I might do another sync just to construct a graph.
thestringpuller: the above option wasn't using --verify-all
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: so in that sense, my os copies files a lot faster than that.
mircea_popescu: seriously, 10 hours for 100gb ? what is this, maxtor days ?
trinque: well. I certainly didn't change the configuration to get that to connect.. merely the origin
mircea_popescu: trinque see, problem fixed.
trinque: AWS being the host was certainly a problem.
mircea_popescu: no i meant sarcastically, cus it parted.
trinque: o lol
trinque: he'll be back again shortly
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: that article makes me think of (i entirely forget the source) - approximately - 'every man's life has a time when things were working correctly'
mircea_popescu: heh
thestringpuller: trinque: you found a new host?
mircea_popescu: so you suspect it's me, do you ?
trinque: thestringpuller: yep, though not one I've passed any judgement on yet, other than "is elsewhere"
ascii_butugychag: the observation about 'girl is not annoying because it is a girl' is spot-on
ascii_butugychag: i verified it experimentally at minimal cost
ascii_butugychag: one does not need to be mircea_popescu to test this.
mircea_popescu: thanks god.
ascii_butugychag: reading mircea_popescu's recollections of the '90s porn set feels a little like another one of my predilections, memoirs of su physics/math folk
ascii_butugychag: same feel of 'alas sunken atlantis'
thestringpuller: !s girl is not annoying because
assbot: 0 results for 'girl is not annoying because' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=girl+is+not+annoying+because
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: this was re: the latest trilema article
thestringpuller: aha
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone sane was seriously thinking the situation may survive. it was painfully obvious we're riding a self-limiting wave.
mircea_popescu: then again, granted, most of those involved were pretty nuts.
ascii_butugychag: 'gold rush' is always quite similar, no ?
mircea_popescu: pretty much, yeah.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: the observation about 'camgurlz are a magnet for the attention of subhuman bois' seems unsurprising
mircea_popescu: they drive otherwise "normal" boys into subhumanity.
ascii_butugychag: ... isn't that sorta like 'toilet is a magnet for shit' ? yes, sometimes people plant flowers in one. but speaking as to its purpose.
ascii_butugychag: srsly?
mircea_popescu: this isn't a castigation of them. but the system is a chute down not a chute up.
ascii_butugychag: how does that work ?
mircea_popescu: let's see. suppose a land, fertile but unimproved. to get anything, you have to actually get it.
mircea_popescu: we know this does promote all the industries - people will hunt and make farms, and then need lumber and tv sets.
mircea_popescu: suppose now a desert with small pellet dispensers, where a little food can be had.
mircea_popescu: we know this promotes all the africas - people will sit around and invent ways to insure they don't upset the gods.
ascii_butugychag: ensure?
mircea_popescu: myeah
mircea_popescu: both, really, but myeah.
ascii_butugychag: and farmers do their share of 'must not upset the gods'
mircea_popescu: there is necessarily no ensuring "the gods". just you know, transactional insuring 'em.
ascii_butugychag: because land doesn't actually behave so differently from a food dispenser
mircea_popescu: granted.
mircea_popescu: yet the effects of tiny modulation in environment are indisputably major in the mold that grows out
ascii_butugychag: i'd conjecture that 'africanization' is at its height when the 'food dispenser' ~responds to human buluceala'
ascii_butugychag: ~
mircea_popescu: and here it does.
ascii_butugychag: (it isn't about whether the pellets are small, as in a zoo, or large, as in a harvest season - but that zoo ~answeres prayers~ and rewards wheedling)
mircea_popescu: the size of the pellet is imo the important part.
ascii_butugychag: how so ?
mircea_popescu: consider. the first major invention that "revolutionized" mankind was... agriculture. it reduced the societal bolus from "whole bison, if you get it" to "a fraction of a crop, if you well save it".
mircea_popescu: this reduction similarly took the world from greece to rome, give or take.
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 382.58, Best ask: 382.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.24000, Last trade: 382.6, 24 hour volume: 46720.82048297, 24 hour low: 378.77, 24 hour high: 414.49, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: or if you prefer, from sioux to irish.
mircea_popescu: the next one, actual industry, reduced the bolus further (the chinese never developed industry because yes, their goverment had already reduced it to "one bowl of rice")
mircea_popescu: degradation of society generally follows the success of technology in reducing the size of the minimal harvest.
mircea_popescu: which is why we're to expect all sorts of wonders from micropayments ; all of which wonders begin and end with caged ratpeople.
ascii_butugychag: small pellet leads to thinking of next pellet always. as in the professor who described to me how crack is smoked
ascii_butugychag: this makes sense.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, small pellet makes it LESS important to live.
mircea_popescu: the hunter didn't fear death ; the farmer feared death only, not drudgery ; the factory worker can't even think death, fears drudgery, not anonymity.
mircea_popescu: then finally the "literate" or "white collar" or however you call the despicable postmodern otaku, intellectuals I suppose ? can't even comprehend drudgery, fears anonimity, i can scarcely look down to see what's next.
ascii_butugychag: whaddayamean can't comprehend drudgery
mircea_popescu: just that.
ascii_butugychag: we got drudgery on tap
ascii_butugychag: in every godforsaken cube farm tower
mircea_popescu: anyone bothered by it ?
mircea_popescu: anyone even seem to notice ?
ascii_butugychag: everybody?
mircea_popescu: ha-ha.
ascii_butugychag: why do you suppose just about all of these people kill themselves ?
ascii_butugychag: (usually slowly, with drink etc. but.)
mircea_popescu: i would not presume these people do anything.
mircea_popescu: as the expression goes, "it happened"
mircea_popescu: why does it happen to them that they died ? no one knows, for drudgery can't be thought.
ascii_butugychag: i can readily observe at least a subset of things they choose to do, when i find myself readily able to avoid doing them
ascii_butugychag: ergo they choose to?
mircea_popescu: im not so sure.
ascii_butugychag: for instance, drinking yourself into catatonia every friday is optional
mircea_popescu: to quote, " Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?"
mircea_popescu: what's your model for optionality ?
mircea_popescu: for me and for the waitress, showing up at the restaurant is optional, right ? and so it is for the cat.
ascii_butugychag: for eater - optional
ascii_butugychag: for waitress and cat - perhaps less so ?
mircea_popescu: well, you'll need a model.
mircea_popescu: maybe for cat most of all. how about the beef ?
ascii_butugychag: the beef is not a playing character...
mircea_popescu: but the waitress is ?
mircea_popescu: why, cuz you never fucked a cow ?
ascii_butugychag: is, if only residually
ascii_butugychag: i must admit this glaring omission. i have not.
mircea_popescu: how about a waitress ?
ascii_butugychag: approxim.
mircea_popescu: well then, that explains it :D
ascii_butugychag: but i find a good bit of what these people do to themselves to be readily optional, at least in the sense that eating one's nagant is optional
mircea_popescu: "the beef is not a playing character for not having escaped from its pen ; the waitress is a playing character for not having escaped from its pen." << shall need some more sandbags. why hate the cow, what, if you prick it does it not bleed ?
mircea_popescu: if you poison it, does it not die ?
ascii_butugychag: i've never seen a human woman land by mistake in a cow pen and end up processed for beef
ascii_butugychag: while i have seen thinking people end up waiting tables etc
ascii_butugychag: wasn't it in mircea_popescu's recent article where 'common man must be pumped through a sewer tunnel but oughta have a small escape hatch' ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, as a matter of fact some cows do make it out!
mircea_popescu: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/67793636.jpg << cow cowrdashian
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb4uOI )
thestringpuller: "Apollo astronauts called their urine dumps "The Constellation Urion" and said it was very beautiful."
thestringpuller: latest from the gavin-stooge: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/426nee/ambitious_protocol_limits/
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
thestringpuller: SMTP's limit is 99mn terabytes!!!! Why do we need limit on blocksize guise?!?!?
punkman: https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000603cba76274b479a7507ef9585518b06e192f1a6255b5b8 cool mil in this block
assbot: Bitcoin Block #394456 ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSXMi )
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
punkman: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/01/19/more-u-s-military-drones-are-crashing-than-ever-as-new-problems-emerge/
assbot: More Air Force drones are crashing than ever as mysterious new problems emerge - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb6qH9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80150 @ 0.00056996 = 45.6823 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: cool.
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: deedbot-: wb.
trinque: deedbot-: !services
trinque: !services
thestringpuller: Ugh. Can Roger Ver just go the fuck away, this prick is more of a douchebag than Weev.
thestringpuller: "I'm against war, but I love selling guns."
mircea_popescu: gavin is not very itnelligent, is he.
thestringpuller: seems evoorhees is no better
thestringpuller: he's basically on reddit wanting Core to become bitcoin politicians
thestringpuller: so now he's gone from being bitcoin businessman to bitcoin politician
thestringpuller: everyone wants to be in office!
BingoBoingo: When we got our snow earier this week I was the only person the on our street civilized enough to shovel his drive way. Now that there's been a few days for it to melt and refreeze neighbors are complaining they can't get into or out of theirs because they've become too slick. Also precious few sidewalks have been shoveled in town.
punkman: !up drnet
funkenstein_: BingoBoingo, nordic system looking better and better innit?
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Not really
funkenstein_: how else you gonna get around in the winter?
funkenstein_: pin to win
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sucks huh.
BingoBoingo: Usually get around with car in winter, sufficient wild snowplows here
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Used to not be this way. Sometime 10-15 years ago the torts think scared people out of taking responsibility for clearing winter weather
mircea_popescu: either that or sheer lazy.
BingoBoingo: The tort justifies the lazy
mircea_popescu recalls enjoying doing it, the one year he ended up seriously snowed upon
BingoBoingo: It's not spectualarly fun, but its a way to be outside in the cold without feeling cold
BingoBoingo: What I don't get though is the people so lazy they won't do their own driveway and end up housebound three days after the last snow falls
BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i got a foot an a half.
mircea_popescu: and then by the time i cleared it, there was a slight melt an d i got a futher two tons off the roof.
BingoBoingo: Ah, the big snows are much more fun. Only been through a couple snows between 18-24 inches.
mircea_popescu: gives you plenty of time to practice jr high maths.
BingoBoingo: Also when done a well earned sense of superiority over other locals who are less accomplished in the clearing
mircea_popescu: true.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37495 @ 0.00056658 = 21.2439 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEllPO )
mircea_popescu: ;;nethash
gribble: 856935770.399
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 394516 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 619 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2013/the-bitchslapping-of-2013/ seems awfully prescient as now Erik seeks to appease all the pinoy spamzors https://archive.is/aQX5h
assbot: The bitchslapping of 2013... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNl5 )
assbot: IMHO, BTC price will be weak until Core demonstrates competency in social consensus. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNBD )
mircea_popescu: opinions being like assholes, whether humble or not.
BingoBoingo: "Unlike me, Erik tries to be nice, to everyone, all the time. The downside of his approach is that he is treated like dirt, by everyone. Not every time, but every time it actually matters. (You are invited to review the logs of the #bitcoin-dev channel [cached] and make up your own mind on the subject.) "
BingoBoingo definitely bullish on 2013 flashbacks this year
BingoBoingo waits for flashbacks to http://trilema.com/2013/strategic-superiority-the-saga-continues/
assbot: Strategic superiority - the saga continues on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEnpam )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes i'd avoid all chrysler products (including jeep) like the plague. land cruiser/4runner, tahoe/suburban, and explorer/expedition are all worth considering and all fit the "mega-suv with low tco and reasonable maintenance prospects for an american family" niche. that being said, you'd probably be just as well, if not better, served by the 00-06 escape or 97-02 cr-v, both of which should be quiet
pete_dushenski: easier to park, better on fuel, and have lower tco. whichever way you go, driving them each and finding a used car with known providence (receipts!) are the two most important factors.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: for those at home, tco = true cost to own
BingoBoingo: Ah, yes. J.e.e.p. Just empty every pocket
BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite" ☟︎
pete_dushenski: magnum r/t for sure. probably less than $10k for a decent one.
pete_dushenski: chrysler has definitely taken the crown of "piece of cobbled together shit that only lasts as long as you're making payments on it", which fiat had through the 80s. fitting that fiat came back to north america in 2012 under chrysler proprietorship, really.
BingoBoingo: Meatspace friend had boring v6 one for a while. Beat it all to hell then "upgraded" to one of the daewoo crossovers rebadged as a chevy.
BingoBoingo: He mentioned not missing the covetous looks he got driving the magnum around the city
pete_dushenski: aha. the lulz of an "american" truck or car being designed and built in the firstest bestest southest korea. truly one of america's most glorious embarrassments.
pete_dushenski: http://dodgeforum.com/articles/dodge-charger-and-challenger-among-americas-most-stolen-cars/ << lel. til.
assbot: Dodge Charger and Challenger among America’s most stolen cars - DodgeForum.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEp1kx )
BingoBoingo: I mean it was understandable when they did it with the Aveo because they wanted a bottom end car to scare people into buying up.
pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes" ☟︎
pete_dushenski: it's like the most believable pick-up line in the hood : "i'd pick you up at 8, hun, but my charger srt8 got stolen last week and i'm still trying to track down the basterds who dun it."
pete_dushenski: maybe this works ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: the only problem with that aveo theory is that... it was better than the cobalt.
pete_dushenski: or at least just as terrible
pete_dushenski: for 5k less
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: A lot of the charger/etc thefts are from rental agencies
BingoBoingo: The aveo and cobalt were different kinds of terrible
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381533 << wtf is that ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:10:19; mircea_popescu: and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg
pete_dushenski: breakfast wut
asciilifeform: i mean, what substance
pete_dushenski: sugarpops
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: The cobalt was basically a cavalier refresh which was a familiar, dependable kind of shitty. The aveo was an alien kind of suck.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:29:45; BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: and you'd be amazed how many buyers preferred the alien. i sold 10x aveos as cobalts in my day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Magnum is a good old fashioned station wagon.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you're not progressive enough to get it
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: You also are Canadian. Locally cobalts are common. Aveos are what Chinese restaurant workers drive.
ben_vulpes: thank you pete_dushenski!
asciilifeform: i see this idea, colleagues had children, 'must buy gigantic truck!1111'
asciilifeform: but... why?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i thought 'progressive' enviro-whinerism would demand a ~smaller~ car
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Crash resistance. Truck is only way to get body on frame construction. Also favorable height differential in crash.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ? ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:39:10; pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: avec plaisir :D
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: not only are you not a progressive now, but you've clearly never been one either. while it's true that some fall into the 'prius/tesla' camp, others fall into the 'i'd never drive a sedan or wagon because that's what my parents did and that's old-fashioned and/or otherwise bad mkay' camp
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: as to thefts, the point of the rape parallel is that the act (of ownership or sex) never actually happened.
asciilifeform: i dun get it, ~somebody~ had title to the wheeled coffin
asciilifeform: so what does this mean, 'ownership never happened'
asciilifeform: it was on the lot? the dealer (or bank, etc) owned.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: as BingoBoingo points out, that most of the 'thefts' happened on rental lots indicates exactly this. namely, fraud.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: No. Thefts are rentals that just don't get returned. Talked to a couple people who did the scary work of "rental car recovery"
pete_dushenski: or car "disappeared" from and ended up at employee's step-brother's house, "somehow"
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: i guess there's that too eh
asciilifeform: l0l
jurov: rental agencies don't report that?
asciilifeform: it is interesting that a zimbabwe would even get to have such a thing as car rental lots.
jurov: !up gabriel_laddel
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: What typically was the worst case was car renter took car to region under "sovereign flag" like certain areas of North St Louis that precluded recovery when lojack revealed the car to be there.
pete_dushenski: jurov: sure they do, possibly even over-report.
gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics? ☟︎
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Apparently at that point recovery efforts became limited to driving by to verify the car was there and making it insurance company's problem
gabriel_laddel: I found 20 XC6216-2HQ240Cs ☟︎
gabriel_laddel: Very reasonably priced too.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: gonna build own dragonflytron?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: bwahaha. "how much does your enemy need to pay you for you to answer the call in his time of need ?"... indeed. why shouldn't "recovery" guys be on the same side as "thieves" ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: We shall see. I would like to put 8 of them in your hands. S.NSA needs a R&D project.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: got six or so 'r&d project' depending on how you count.
gabriel_laddel: Though I'd need to see some designs first..
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: this one's yours.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: try something easy at first, e.g., evolve a bit-counter
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Not necessarily on side of theives. Company just did not want life insurance premiums to bankrupt them so placed sane limits on what could be recovered from where.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b78
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: know anything about the honda passport model?
pete_dushenski: that it's korean
pete_dushenski: also not sold in canada afaik
ben_vulpes: what does 'korean' mean for build quality and lifetime?
pete_dushenski: very, very bad things.
pete_dushenski: there's a good reason you don't see many 15-20 year old hyundais on the road
ben_vulpes: hm.
asciilifeform: i question that any wheelbox sold now will be on the road in 20 years, even if the road is still there then
ben_vulpes: all the good cars have miserable lines.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'sold now' is not under consideration.
pete_dushenski: korean shitboxes tend to rattle and groan like very poorly maintained vacuum cleaners at 15-20 years of age and find themselves in the scrap yard as a result
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Gas is cheap. Just get a Ford Excursion and be done with it.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: honda pilot > passenger
BingoBoingo: Just imagine how much bandwidth it would have when full of tapes!
pete_dushenski: https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5403309932.html
assbot: 2003 Honda Pilot LX 4WD ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhBoG )
pete_dushenski: " Will trow set of massa 23inch wheels if pay full price." <<< !!!
pete_dushenski: hear that ? he'll "trow" in some spangly dubs tooo !!
pete_dushenski: bbias
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95400 @ 0.00056372 = 53.7789 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: This looks easy on the HODL https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5404505284.html
assbot: 2003 Suburban Z71 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhSYv )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.00056398 = 28.0016 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: i grew up in a suburban
ben_vulpes: great vans
asciilifeform: living in it?!!
ben_vulpes: certainly felt like it, driving across town to school and back every day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Bigger than some apartments
BingoBoingo: Can roll the window down and jsut drop a turd on the highway
mod6: my specialty
mod6: '-has a couple songs in the rear bumper' wat?
BingoBoingo: mod6: How can one not want to investigate that mystery?
mod6: right?
BingoBoingo: There's prolly also got to be aftermarket plate armour kits for the thing
BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S03PCx )
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993
assbot: Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what is a 'bingo wing' ?
asciilifeform: (mentioned in link)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing" ☟︎
asciilifeform: ugh.
asciilifeform: for some reason my first thought was the old viking punishment, 'making the bloody eagle'
BingoBoingo: Ah, not yet.
asciilifeform: (evisceration from behind, lungs would flap out the back like wings)
BingoBoingo: Can then hang as trophy like "angel" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381575 << he likes to shop for shelf stable stuff at sam's club, once or twice a quarter. needs the space. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:45:32; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381586 << not everyone's insured. these are old cars, worth relatively little. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:48:51; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ?
asciilifeform: i do similar, with normal car
asciilifeform: the extra space of all but the most gigantic 'suv' is largely illusory
BingoBoingo: But in the most gigantic, overwhelming space
asciilifeform: in garbage truck, yet moar space!11
BingoBoingo: ^
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381604 << iirc, recycler. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:56:13; gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?
asciilifeform: (anyone ever throw a party in a converted garbage truck? and then see if guests piss themselves when you show that the hydraulics STILL work ??)
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Will have to remember that if relapse
asciilifeform: i still think 'babywagon' is a constructed meme, like the diamond ring idiocy
BingoBoingo: Well. might actually make sense when children get to school if personally delivering them. May deter other parent's driving aggression if their baby wagon is insuffiecient to take yours in a fight for space.
BingoBoingo: Could also be a reflection of how many 'Muricans go planetary after birth requiring truck suspensions to hold their ass.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381651 << ok i lollered ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 22:31:22; BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381663 << obligatory ancient uncle al: 'i sat down the angel on top of the christmas tree... i think... she ~liked~ it!!11' ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 22:40:27; BingoBoingo: Can then hang as trophy like "angel"
pete_dushenski: "Of the 269 Predators purchased by the Air Force since then, about half have been destroyed or badly damaged in accidents, records show." <--> "The Predator has been our most effective weapon in our campaign against the global jihadists,” said Michael G. Vickers, the Pentagon’s former top civilian intelligence official"
asciilifeform: what, one wonders, are the stats for other flying machines ?
pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated. ☟︎
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension ☟︎
pete_dushenski: not so. a pension is just a promise, a predator costs money today, in today's dollars
asciilifeform: about what a truck costs ☟︎
pete_dushenski: widow from vietnam can have 350/mo forever, can't afford cauliflower
pete_dushenski: $4 mn for a truck ??
asciilifeform: quite possibly. (truck delivered to afghan)
pete_dushenski: see freight costs atm. here to shanghai for the cost of the containers.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you would be surprised to learn what seemingly pedestrian items cost when purchased on usg dime
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: shanghai is a 'special' place.
pete_dushenski: "In March, the Air Force’s program manager for its Reaper fleet filed a report with the Pentagon noting that there had been “a dramatic increase” in starter-generator failures since 2013." <--> "General Atomics spokeswoman Kimberly Kasitz said the firm “stands behind the proven reliability” of the Reaper."
pete_dushenski: this shit's just too lulzy. honestly.
pete_dushenski: i greater display of circuitous wankery one could scarcely imagine.
asciilifeform: l0l perhaps they're using the starters of the same make as in my old 'subaru'.
pete_dushenski: takata ? famous for poor airbags.
asciilifeform: incidentally, what happens to that thing if the starter croaks? how many hours of battery for guidance system
pete_dushenski: "“Once the battery’s gone, the airplane goes stupid and you lose it,” said Col. Brandon Baker, chief of the Air Force’s remotely piloted aircraft capabilities division. “Quite frankly, we don’t have the root cause ironed out just yet.”"
pete_dushenski: ^
asciilifeform: l0lzy
pete_dushenski: also, "The Reaper carries an emergency battery backup system. But the batteries last only for about one hour. If a malfunctioning drone needs more time than that to reach an airfield, it is in trouble."
pete_dushenski: this shit's better than usgavin, i swear
asciilifeform: i'ma guess these are built without redundant tandems
asciilifeform: (unlike manned machine)
asciilifeform: ~deliberately~.
asciilifeform: they are seen as inventory, to be churned
asciilifeform: like rockets.
pete_dushenski: just imagine the conversation at lizard hitler hq : "sir, we have reports that the bitcoin xtcoreclassic team isn't providing adequate lulz to our enemies at #b-a. we've expended all the resources we had at our disposal and it still isn't enough. they're indefatigable sir!" "send in... the drones. it might not be a perfect plan, but it's all we have right now. at the very least, it'll buy us some time." "right away,
pete_dushenski: lizardliness!"
asciilifeform: recall also that 'predator' et al are not aerial combat machines, but roasting-defenceless-people machines
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: by design.
asciilifeform: they are not built to survive so much as one bullet.
pete_dushenski: relevant : https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )
mircea_popescu: much like everything else usg
mircea_popescu: "works fine if you roll over"
asciilifeform: incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it ☟︎
asciilifeform: quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the payload could be as humble as one shotgun round.
pete_dushenski: in lab, no, but the results would seem to support your theory, particularly as heathens with slingshots seem to be picking them off like flies buzzing around yesterday's leftovers
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what makes you think that the heathens have picked them off ?
asciilifeform: the most likely scenario is takeoff/landing 'oopses'
asciilifeform: as with ordinary planes.
pete_dushenski: wait, really ? you think ~half~ of their fleet "had accidents" ?
asciilifeform: aha.
pete_dushenski: like they're some kind of total ceo ?
asciilifeform: recall also the other kind of usgistic accident, as with the car rental lots,
asciilifeform: 'i want a new one. let's oops this'
pete_dushenski: i'm not persuaded that the front-line gameboyers think that there's an unlimited supply of these machines.
asciilifeform: sorta like a fella i once knew who had a 'new computer if this one dies' warranty, and had a handy electrostatic wand'o'death he built for new-computer-gettin'
pete_dushenski: what if you break xbox... and it was last one ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: lol.
asciilifeform: what if you break yer paycheque and it were the last one...
asciilifeform: nobody thinks this.
pete_dushenski wasn't raised by wolves, can't confirm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168000 @ 0.0005599 = 94.0632 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: !up polarbeard
polarbeard: hi
asciilifeform: who might you be, polarbeard ?
mircea_popescu: ello
polarbeard: I don't know if you'll find this interesting or horrible :)
polarbeard: but I'll share anyway
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381658 << i went to a bingo hall for the first time in my life recently. made it for like half an hour. mostly in dazed bewilderment that people actually DO this. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 22:37:55; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"
polarbeard: I've been toying with trb's building scripts, and I've managed to do a whole build, including sig verification and pressing by generating a makefile
mircea_popescu: for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches.
polarbeard: look here: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942
assbot: Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaebxK )
mircea_popescu: apparently someone does this voluntarily! i expect to see prison camps next!
polarbeard: the makefile there is generated from the script on top
mircea_popescu: polarbeard good for you. now get in the wot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no more astonishing than the fact that folks played, e.g., 'everquest', voluntarily
polarbeard: I'm there
mircea_popescu: at least that's with graphics
mircea_popescu: !rate polarbeard 1 Managed a V press.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e0b87e28121f253c
polarbeard: but unrated
polarbeard: thx
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.polarbeard.1:8a5bdee1eb6f2d33a59c6a5c2f83bc35d2934888e7e09fc6c99cbe2480d8c241
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for polarbeard with note: Managed a V press.
polarbeard: I'll stay around
asciilifeform: polarbeard: how did you come upon your interest in trb ?
polarbeard: we have similar interests, for what I read in the public log
polarbeard: and is nice that you cleaned it up
mircea_popescu: actually that's a neat little script. what dja think trinque mod6 ?
trinque: polarbeard: I posted some makefiles to the ML recently. How does what you've done here compare to it?
mircea_popescu: similar, maybe shorter.
polarbeard: trinque: I used your makefiles to build the script actually, you sped up the process :)
polarbeard: this script generates a single makefile to verify, press and build, without using v
mircea_popescu: to look at that press enum... shit you people've been busy.
trinque: polarbeard: cool man. I'll read it in detail later this evening.
asciilifeform: press enum ?
polarbeard: thanks! is still under heavy testing, but it works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he included a test suite, and a list of its outputs, which is impressive.
mircea_popescu: see L 170>
asciilifeform: neato except for the 32bit key fps
asciilifeform: those need fixin'
asciilifeform: (ln. 186-7)
polarbeard: oh, yep
polarbeard: those will not be imported if you already have them
polarbeard: but right
asciilifeform: polarbeard: in case you did not know, you can browse the almost-current trb using www browser, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected
assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaeKaR )
asciilifeform: very helpful for wrapping one's head around.
polarbeard: asciilifeform: bookmarked, thx
asciilifeform: likewise mod6's chart: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html
assbot: VPATCH_GRAPH ... ( http://bit.ly/1KdVBAp )
asciilifeform: ^ it is mechanically generated but not yet in real time
asciilifeform: polarbeard: you can click on the patches and see exactly what has changed.
polarbeard: neat
mircea_popescu: so why would we find this horrible ?
polarbeard: because you built v in first place
mircea_popescu: well yes but for this reason afaiu.
polarbeard: yep, this is quite experimental anyway, I don't know make's limits
polarbeard: maybe if you feed it too much targets i'll die
polarbeard: *it
jurov: lol
mircea_popescu: that'd be a sight.
jurov: !b 4 ✂︎
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08RVY1R.txt )
asciilifeform: polarbeard: what do the 'hunks' do ?
mircea_popescu: "make has a 100000 targets limit written into the code"
polarbeard: after verifying, patches are split into hunks ☟︎
polarbeard: so make can resolve them
mircea_popescu: uh
asciilifeform: why?
mircea_popescu: look at that, it's like we're back to .rar torrents.
polarbeard: why split or why make has to resolve them?
asciilifeform: why the latter
asciilifeform: v is guaranteed to apply all vpatches in the correct order.
polarbeard: there is no v ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381687 << the definition of "effective" under which he operates is both peculiar and self-defeating. he wants to get something (in this case, anything, whatsoever) for nothing (in this case, no casualties, the one thing usg can't afford is coffins). so in that sense, his insanity is sensible. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:35; pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he wrote a makefile maker
polarbeard: it helps with parallelization but there was another reason I forgot
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can see this
mircea_popescu: so technically it doesn't need the v once the output has been generated.
asciilifeform: i actually considered implementing v this way, and decided against it
mircea_popescu: yes but all possibility space WILL be explored.
asciilifeform: you lose a good bit of important side functionality, and become dependent on a gigantic gnuturd
asciilifeform: (it is bad enough that we rely on gnu diff)
mircea_popescu: well, he wants to find out if he can crash make.
polarbeard: true, it's just an experiment
polarbeard: you get a signable build process though
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: right :)
asciilifeform: signable?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, as per github tradition. if you trust your computer and v implementation, you can sign the output.
asciilifeform: i suppose if a megatonne of hardcoded hashes can be called 'build process'...
mircea_popescu: how do you thinkg everything else that's signed out there is signed ?
mircea_popescu: and rly i should say "As per git tradition"
mircea_popescu: debian was never anything else, etc.
asciilifeform: i'm still not certain why the patches had to be broken down into patchons
polarbeard: its just intermediary state though
mircea_popescu: ;;google pat & patachon
gribble: Pat & Patachon by Thomas Staedeli: <http://www.cyranos.ch/pata-e.htm>; Soundtrack #7 Pat und Patachon | Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester ...: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPnbYp35myQ>; Pat und Patachon | Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester | Bulimie Song ...: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHPipIUbjXY>
polarbeard: like it is on memory using v
polarbeard: hunks is generated by the script after verification