66 entries in 0.609s
asciilifeform: iirc it was axed as a 'lisp machine', cost like 100 ordinary jets. and they thought 'world's most golden toilet', the time of f35 , that ate ~three decades~ in promisetronic phase and now flying clothes iron... had not come yet
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: prb ~does~ iirc have a lulzy notion that it can somehow prefer 1 tx in an n-spend tuple ~in mempool~ as 'the real tx' (the protocol offers no such mechanism, of course, tx dun contain anyffin to tie it to e.g. leading block when-issued , only a promisetronic timestamp that can equal whatever the issuer wants)
asciilifeform: or is this 1 of those heathen 'blockchain info' 'append note to your tx' promisetronic thingies
asciilifeform: why have promisetronic layers where there is already solid steel.
asciilifeform: promisetronic, tho, i dun like it.
asciilifeform: 'portability' without active testing is an empty promisetronic thing
a111: Logged on 2018-10-09 16:31 phf: i had expiration set on it, which i finally removed for good. the thinking at the time was that i didn't really trust my opsec (mac was still in the loop), but it wasn't much of thinking since the mechanism is promisetronic anyway. i also took an opportunity to clean it up off extra "identities" and random signatures
phf: i had expiration set on it, which i finally removed for good. the thinking at the time was that i didn't really trust my opsec (mac was still in the loop), but it wasn't much of thinking since the mechanism is promisetronic anyway. i also took an opportunity to clean it up off extra "identities" and random signatures ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: right, but point was the futility of promisetronic 'protections'
asciilifeform: the hashes thing strikes me as promisetronic, it is already 'honour system', why not simply identify the client by name, same effect.
trinque: I agree, promisetronic without the vtron getting angry at you over mismatched name
shinohai: If there are currently no vps boxxen to sell, cannot exactly sell anything besides promisetronic
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772477 << in ideal vtron, the 'and i stole x from a, y from b...' is protocolic, rather than promisetronic. i.e. abolition of eyeball-powered diff. ☝︎
asciilifeform: in other noose, chaum ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-10#1365552 ) peddles promisetronic shitcoin, https://archive.is/DQPVe , as if he had any reputation left to burn ☝︎
asciilifeform: kad did this with traditional 'time to live' but that is promisetronic ultimately
Framedragger: talk about promisetronic :)
asciilifeform: then when i say 'timestamps not produced by yourself are promisetronic' it will immediately click in your brain.
asciilifeform: sina: i recommend to also review logs re 'protocolic vs promisetronic' concept
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and fucking is also intrinsically promisetronic. so what of it ? most of the things we do and enjoy are founded onm promise.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: offering trng output for someone to download, for money, or otherwise, is intrinsically promisetronic
Framedragger: almost as if the thing would need to wait and then send a challenge to that same nick, but this is kinda promisetronic i guess.
asciilifeform: it's precisely how all successful usgizations went -- slow, frogboiling replacement of a protocolic guarantee with a promisetronic one that is Just As Good (until it isn't, at which point you're long fucked)
asciilifeform: proponents of 'pruning' want to replace 'the weight of 400k blocks' with a promisetronic 'checkpoint list'. which, i imagine the game plan is, to eventually include deviations from the usual proof of work, per gavin's unabashed declaration where 'WE say what the blocks were'
asciilifeform: there's nothing promisetronic re copying a static bin that you built ~yourself~ to >1 box. (for one thing, it demonstrates that it is genuinely static and will run on heterogeneous boxen.) but you can do it either way.
asciilifeform: which is a dumbfoundingly idiotic concept: it is promisetronic IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
asciilifeform: and the existence of some public pissoire that will necessarily accept a given piss of mine, is promisetronic
asciilifeform: (formally speaking: it converts the protocolic into the promisetronic)
asciilifeform: but yes phf any system where you enter a pw and it 'doesn't store' is promisetronic (can you see with your own eyes that it 'doesn't store' ? really?)
phf: unrelatedly i was wondering if gpg passwords are promisetronic. how do they even work? there's some symmetric encryption scheme used to encrypt the privkey, or can passwords be somehow integrated into rsa scheme?
asciilifeform: trinque: has a promisetronic flavour to it
asciilifeform: i also expect that (at least if traditional bitcoin continues to function interruptedly) promisetronic 'we the wise men agreed that hash H represents this tarball which existed in 2012...' will become entirely unnecessary and hence dispensed with in favour of actual pointers to deedbot
asciilifeform: and yes it is a somewhat promisetronic thing. no need even to go as far as bank. go an' see what happens if you want 1000 amps from your mains connection.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iffy, too promisetronic will cause a bunch of hurt fingers.
asciilifeform: then again, traditional hash algos 'solve' (i.e. pretend to solve) this by 'every sub-op of hashing affects all output bits' which is largely promisetronic.
asciilifeform: 'patches must be superbly-commented works of knuthiana' is promisetronic.
asciilifeform: davout: locktime is promisetronic!
phf: fwiw patch format is super promisetronic. it's something along the lines of "command that was used to produce the hunks\nhunks..."
a111: Logged on 2016-11-23 16:18 asciilifeform: global indices of 'memorable' names, or 'safely' shortened rsa pubkeys, are promisetronic.
mircea_popescu: now, there's entirely nothing "promisetronic" about people providing seals named as their patches are named. if they fail to do this - their patch won't work.
ben_vulpes: look i'm pointing at a promisetronic bit of v and saying "hey look i think this is a bit floppy"
ben_vulpes: it costs in complexity, yes. could be argued that it is a very minimal cost, but i would still prefer to "pick any signature from .seals that verifies" instead of the by my read promisetronic "pick any signature whose filename contains the filename of the patch under verification"
asciilifeform: (in the case of 'provably fair', he can be shown the seed for the prng, but there is NO way for the casino to demonstrate that NO ONE ELSE KNEW it. hence -- just as promisetronic, and now on top of it all braindamage of using prng)
asciilifeform: also it is strange to suppose that a casino player could take a legitimate interest in the rng of the game machine. it is intrinsically promisetronic, he is stuck taking the house's word for it.
asciilifeform: the whole idea of 'digital circuit' is somewhat promisetronic
asciilifeform: it is promisetronic step.
phf: actually promisetronic to the max, since you don't even have to surrender the photo. something about the Polaroid part implies that you're not live streaming it to pornhub
asciilifeform: promisetronic!1111
mircea_popescu: "promisetronic" in the sense of "not rippletronic/ethereumtronic/etc" is a good thing.
Framedragger: hmm. i mean, sure, it just.. seems awfully promisetronic, to peruse local lingo.
asciilifeform: global indices of 'memorable' names, or 'safely' shortened rsa pubkeys, are promisetronic. ☟︎
asciilifeform: it is promisetronic.
asciilifeform: how is the 'able to' mechanically implemented ? because it is, or at least appears to be, promisetronic
asciilifeform: and ever power switch, on every box i've had since my 'cyrix' 486-dx, was promisetronic.
mircea_popescu: ie, the back button itself is promisetronic as implemented by browsers. "almost like lisp!"
asciilifeform: promisetronic 'verifications' are an eternal plague among the stupid. consider even the timestamp in gpg (to make the phuctor sig from last night's qntra, i used ordinary gpg 1.4, with patch). what business does a userland proggy have asking for the wall clock time without permission? if i want it to have a time, i will pipe 'date' to it...
asciilifeform: iirc ripple was promisetronic though.
asciilifeform: but less promisetronic (public, e.g., base.)
asciilifeform: 'mining is a bug' because, as mircea_popescu even appeared to agree earlier, it is promisetronic.
asciilifeform: 'proof of work', like 'symmetric crypto', does not in fact have a protocolic (vs promisetronic) existence !
trinque: my perspective is that the field is promisetronic in exactly the same manner as nlocktime
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the failure to generate 1MB tx is promisetronic, not protocolic, though.
asciilifeform: it's a very sad pattern though. promisetronic. in that you have a format ~in your head~ and then write 'reader' and 'writer' and there is no machine-assured isomorphism between the one and the other, and definitely not with the format.
asciilifeform: objection was, fundamentally, 'os that prompts for pw is promisetronic, can retain pw if it wants'
asciilifeform: promisetronic.
asciilifeform: ~how~ to do this in a protocolic (rather than promisetronic) way, is another matter.
asciilifeform: deedbot, as it lives on fleanode, is promisetronic.