a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 23:15 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i used 'uber' a number of times, it is a very mixed bag
mircea_popescu: and holy shit that github retardation... people actually put up with this shit ? really ?
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, how can anyone admit to having a github myspace nowadays ?
mircea_popescu is going to ask kids this from now on. "oh, you have a github ? aren;t you ashamed of yourself ?"
phf: asciilifeform: would be pretty easy if it's just press with highlight and blame. xref a little bit more complicated
phf: i guess one step at a time
trinque: I suppose Julian Assange is KGB, too.
trinque: if you truly believe he is still alive!1!!1
phf: trully, хомячки закопошились. in unrelated lulz the phrase top hit is logs
phf: well, no the hamster thing is re senate, the top hit is re hamsters
phf: i was saying re senate in the second phrase in reference to hamsters in first phrase, which was in reference to senate in the asciilifeform url, but the phrase itself was top hit for logs, which is referenced in the second phrase as top hit, and in the first phrase as unrelated lulz. how can this be any clearer
mircea_popescu has completed some research, turns out the jewz did nyc and the russkis did trump 2016!
mircea_popescu: is there no room for law abiding everyday americans anymore than you.
mircea_popescu: but seriously, watching the great unracists trying to sell xenophobia in a desperate-if-doomed attempt to deny their own irrelevance is slightly surreal.
mircea_popescu: f35 getting scrapped seems quite likely as it stands now.
trinque: either before or after shot down.
mircea_popescu: sounds like the perfect item to supply the us carriers
mircea_popescu: which idem, won't go anywhere near a warzone later than 1990s
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:03 BingoBoingo: trinque is Texan where confused is a synonym for sucking cocks. It's a cultural soft spot.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 17:49 phf: oh, shit, we've got a reddit consensus over here
trinque: I think I've long demonstrated that I don't cling to a disproved belief.
mircea_popescu: gents gotta remember though, teh r word's a fightin' word.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i thought he was ribbing Framedragger because how dares he agree or something.
trinque: it's on the record. I don't need to make more hay of it.
trinque: I was going to leave it there. Did you have more nubbins 4th wall breaking in you yet?
trinque: the appeal to the crowd there, and yet I'm the collectivist.
phf: trinque: you lost your shit, cause i ruffled your feathers a bit, ~uncharacteristically~ you were ranting, in the popular style of the channel, but without any of the substance. you unrated me literally for busting your balls, the only reason is we're still on speaking terms is because you helped me out with the gpg key issue
phf: this is the last thing i'm going to say on the matter, if anybody ~else~ has personal issues with me over what transpired i will address those only
mircea_popescu: of all the times in my life i had to explain to a sober judge in the morning wtf the fight was about, this'd have easily been my preferred choice
trinque had a fine day; would've been better with drinks.
mircea_popescu: "there was some disagreement over the true nature of nul lsets, and things went from there". way the fuck better than anything life served me up with.
trinque: such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 03:11 trinque: such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
trinque: if it ran at all I'd offroad the thing until it blew up.
shinohai: I imagine trinque more the baja buggy type?
trinque: upside of texas beaches being shitty is nobody cares if you get drunk and do donuts on them.
trinque: would've been pretty entertaining to be the only station wagon among the trucks
mod6 is finally caught up on megal0g
BingoBoingo: trinque: When did I get the honor of becoming one of the Russians?
trinque: only whoever said nothing today said this.
trinque: was giving you the reason for it. justification for "confused" follows the claim, in any "polite company".
BingoBoingo would say he's confused but doesn't want to invite a dick into his mouth.
trinque: the pederasty comment is about the glee with which folks will erect a strawman, ("This is how it's defined." <-> "Why?") vs ("This is how it's defined?" <-> "No it's not.") to fuck, which has more to do with... primate brains, less to do with thinking.
trinque: pecking order is unavoidable but not nearly as interesting as the actual subject there was.
trinque: when the former supercedes the latter entirely, I'm out, retarded primates didn't contort their brains enough to think that day.
trinque: and if this "skewering the thing that wasn't said, to the great entertainment of das man" was widespread among SU intellectuals, that'd be a fine reason for them to have gone into decline.
trinque: to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:17 mircea_popescu: what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, and this is truly lulzworthy : raiding party identified hot girl, set up a meet. at this meet it was established a) that she's from novosibirsk! and b) there was this dorky german fellow attached, who literally sat, by himself, at a table nearby while we had drinks and icecream and shit.
mircea_popescu: two hours in, the girl being a sweet soul, asked if he might be invited over ? so sure, dude's been playing the dog long enough, let him be invited over.
mircea_popescu: he is an engineer. he wants to know, inter alia, what do i do, and knows that "bitcoin isn't mined anymore". it becomes evident from conversation that she's living with him but isn't fucking him, and while the situation is perfectly acceptable to him, it's very tenuous for her.
mircea_popescu: so we mock him a little (which he germans through) and part on good friends. two days later, turns out she moved on.
mircea_popescu: we might have estranged a german engineer's mail order bride!
mircea_popescu: now let's see if i manage to get myself cut off for flooding.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 05:53 trinque: to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
mircea_popescu: isuse but not beyond. he's a very poor source to learn new words through practice from for this reason. in any case, some strong statements on the topic'd be that a.1) it's originally a vor ie russian prison system concept ; a.2) there's nothing ever fun about it, nor mirthful ; a.3) roosters and feathers are deeply involved for some reason. b) "only whoever said nothing today said this." is self-contradictory on the face - d
mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: d by you. this one true largest gap in the theory of knowledge can not in practice ever be bridged, and must be allowed for. e) i don't understand which of the two examples given is a strawman nor how do the two examples given map to the conversation as it went. f) it seems to me very dubious altogether that there was a pecking order, as in, who's teh greatest lord consideration involved. on 2nd pass analysis (cuz originally
mircea_popescu: this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
☟︎ mircea_popescu: f get to be su intellectuals ? i'm not saying he is or isn't, it's just not clear. i) why do we think whatever intellectuals do or don't do has any impact on what eventually happens ? j) maybe russians just shed a skin, like reptiles ? their decline was kinda brief and they came out of it with fire under butt, apparently. certainly if you look at "which white man nation has a shot of being still around in 2116" ru doesn't bot
mircea_popescu: tom the list, but in any case the admixture's by now explosive there's been so many steps.
Framedragger: as wanna-be rebellious as i sometimes pretend to be, re.
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584820 d), this is maybe clearest way of illustrating what fundamental attribution error (socpsy notion) is, and support it via phenomenological (pardon the tongue) means. i mean, fair enough
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
Framedragger: and in retrospect, my "/me agrees" was maybe childish, but it wasn't, i must point out, any appeal to kons3nsus. it was more like, "i agree with this point and if anyone has any counterpoints, i'd like to address them, too." something like that.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:09 asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
Framedragger: ah yeah, i missed that the first time as i had to run off, pity.
mircea_popescu: this is irl example, too. owning slaves = loads of fun, like kittens ^ akaname or somesuch.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:11 asciilifeform: gotta love the neverending attempt to make water non-wet.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger that said, the whole field of "socpsy" is poppycock, entirely in the manner of "moscow psychology" - it exists to try and justify a, in mussolini's terms, "Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State;" (
http://trilema.com/2013/sex-in-the-news/#selection-105.0-105.64 ). they even admit their "bedrock" is this "fundamental attribution error". they don't however admit that the whole point of this
mircea_popescu: pseudoscientific discipline is to push a individual-bad society-good political agenda.
mircea_popescu: (moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (note, incidentally, how EXACTLY the us "liberal" discourse maps on 1920s chief fascist's discourse)
Framedragger: haha! right, yeah. good to keep that in mind. (subconsciously, i think, that's why i abbreviated the term, it's pretty derp.) it's sad that some (actually) useful notions are held under its umbrella (such as FAE, even though, yes, we've probably seen the latter defined elsewhere in other ways, and it's something that self-aware people tend to be conscious about anyway.)
mircea_popescu: note the "7,894" prices everywhere. because they won't fucking admit it's 10 btc for the life of 'em.
mircea_popescu: "The bulk of these projects are not provided in source code form and instead appear to be binary files, which further strengthens the hypothesis that these files were compromised from an operational staging post or actively obtained from a field operation. If they had been in source code format then this would suggest an insider leak is more likely, binary files are often used in operations over their source code counterpart.
mircea_popescu: " << journaho doesn't know how to compile, therefore imagines source and binary are two separate things, and not in the private-public key relationship.
mircea_popescu: oh in other news, wikitardia apparently now blocking archive.is
Framedragger: " removed a bunch of pseudoscientific poppycock" hahahahahah
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is under a lot of pressure, very thin hr on the ground
mircea_popescu: strangely reminiscent of us presence in middle east really.
Framedragger: i wasn't even aware that their ghetto currently allowed editing of english wiki articles by unregistered accts
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:40 asciilifeform: if i had time, i'd buy the thing and publicly rape it (differential power probe) but i haven't the time.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 14:19 mircea_popescu: (moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
mircea_popescu: and in other news the argentine cattlehead is the most incredible thing known to man. they literally have no indoor. whether it's 3am or 3pm, whether it's inside a hallway or out in a field somehwere, YOU WILL GET THE SAME BLAST!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, the whole us shebang is very neatly su-inspired.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the "world-you/i-you" dichotomy and the nonsensical "fundamental attribution error"/"socpsy" poppycock : the determinations of others as to you are made in the context of world-you, and correct or incorrect in THAT context ; your determinations as to you are made ~at your option~ in the context of i-you, and correct or incorrect in that context ; or in the context of world-you and correct or incorrect in THAT conte
mircea_popescu: xt. there is no "you" that'd allow any sort of ambiguity on this topic whatsoever, and the pretense to the contrary is what makes "socpsy" a non-scientific endeavour on the level of kindergaterners playing with cubes - they're not civil engineers!
mircea_popescu: i am persuaded that it is correct to hold the ability to reconcile the i-you and the world-you correctly from both perspectives as the one test of maturity of the individual. it is however trivial to empirically prove this is not always possible (which is the deep meaning as well as the intellectual relevancy of tragedy - and which is why the greeks or shakespeare matter, and some nigglet woman does not).
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform heh. how does it feel to be liek, in the center of a world so blinded by its central greatness it dares not even raise its eyes ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: back to welt der kunst for a moment : there is this (idiotarian) notion that the role of art is somehow "emotional" and a piece of crap is art if it "evokes" in the viewer. bullshit. the only point of art is exactly as above : if it provides persuasive examples of the nature discussed.
Framedragger: (hm, maybe you'd not allow for such a term (transperson) in the first place...)
mircea_popescu: this, ironically, makes most of eg "sci-fi" pulp ; and some parts of contemporary (esp visual) arts quite on point.
Framedragger: (yeah, imo its central focal point *is* the whole reconciliation issue, from epistemology point of view)
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584892 << i would say that pretending the integration "was already done", as if it were some sort of artefact like an oven rather than a process, like respiration ; or pretending that "someone else" is responsible for it being done (such as don't say word x in front of person y because o noes they're too frail to manage) is pure infantilism.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 15:19 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
mircea_popescu: a transperson is no more or less doomed than any other person ; because, again, the gap is fundamental and can not be bridged.
mircea_popescu: just, since the transperson is more specified than the any other person, there is also a more accessible route to their doom
mircea_popescu: much like if you know it's king oedip, you kinda know ~how~ his integration will fail.
mircea_popescu: but this aside, the only reason you're "better" ie different is that you don't know.
mircea_popescu: (yes, fear of death, in the infantile form thereof is the deep driver behind the pretense of integration "not being a problem", not laziness or anything else.)
mircea_popescu: the ustards are a selection of people uniquely and colossal-y afraid of dying, which explains most of the psychopathology.
Framedragger: (heathen lack of WoT use is indeed frowned-upon and confusing)
mircea_popescu: and finally re
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584334 : this isn't an "error" - there is perfectly good reason for the bias (bias is not automatically erroneous!) to flow this way : the event ~happened in the world~. when the event happens in the head, girl a sees girl b feel like a slut, decides girl b is drunk ; girl a sees girl a feel like a slut, decides she is a slut.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
mircea_popescu: ie, in world-context the bias is for object ; and in i-context the bias is for subject.
mircea_popescu: which is why people never evaluate correctly neither whether they'll drop the vase too ; nor whether the suicidal depressive will actually kill themselves.
mircea_popescu: in other news, btcbase logs 889 deedbot-reported recent phuctorings since april 30th, or about
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 889/231 = 3.8484848484848486
mircea_popescu: except there were 9 today, so it's certainly increasing velocity
mircea_popescu: there's 247 unreported in the above figures (going by phuctor's stats page listing 1136 broken moduli atm)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, this sadmods page with its 640k entries is insanity. gotta ship that data in a better format than webpage.
mircea_popescu: yes, it still will be, except you gotta put a for loop in the bash!
mircea_popescu: atm it's not fucking usable, it's been trying to load for 2 minutes.
mircea_popescu: yeh sadmods can't be accessed. maybe just take the loi
mircea_popescu: sensible, but even if it were - sadmods, a page worth 640mb may well not be worth doing as such. really i gotta dld a jiggabit of data every time ?
mircea_popescu: paginate it and let me download as many pages as i wish
mod6: are you just trying to clearsign one vpatch then?
mod6: then this is a question for trinque; he'll know if deedbot can or can't deal with .sig files.
mod6: it's your thing, you can do it however you see fit.
mod6: then do nothing, until there is a solution.
mod6: 'nothing' is always an option.
mod6: what do you propose as the idea solution here?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: *for the time being*, can you not hash the package, and deedbot clearsigned hash of package?
Framedragger: sure, this isn't a logistical solution, but you'll be able to point to a timestamped-and-signed checksum.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ---- except that i can't because apparently we have 0 working infrastructure for actually releasing v code << i disagree with this. what we have, and trb isn't the only one who's done this, is; you make a mirror, and then v.pl deals with this. you grab all the vpatches you want, and the sigs from people you trust, and you place them in v, then you do what you wanna do.
Framedragger: what use are they who do not verify anyway? do you expect those who do not verify to verify v sigs?
Framedragger: (i am aware of vdiff barfing over certain character sequences. but maybe it'd be enough to timestamp-and-sign hash for now? to be able to *prove* things.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the problem with signed tarball again ?
mircea_popescu: you point to deedbot which contains signed tarball. what's the problem ?
Framedragger not sure why vgenesis must be used here, even though in the future that's the correct ideological pathway, sure. but i'm possibly underinformed and out of my element
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which brings us back to "what problem are you trying to solve"
mircea_popescu: if you've internally decided that you won't ship the items until "v demolishes the idiocy of tarballs" we have a problem.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> v should abolish the idiocy of 'signed tarballs' << it doesn't have to. so far, we don't even have anything of the kind. just vpatches + sigs. 'tis all.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 17:26 asciilifeform: Framedragger: i can, and ~nobody will verify.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:10 asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the two evident avenues would be a) power differential analysis (ie, see how much electricity it eats, and parasite waveforms it induces). this is amply discussed on web re subverting gpg (eventually they got it to work with mere microphone, but same principle)
Framedragger: (but i think i got it why you don't want binary tarball - it'd sure be nice to be able to host a plaintext package, with v sigs etc right there. hm. but then why deedbot the *whole* thing - why not deedbot only hashes of tarball version of webthing. make webthing available to view, but also for those who wish to verify via deedbot, too, make tarball available. not pretty, but worx for *now*.)
mircea_popescu: and much cheaper b) make it encrypt the same thing a shitton of times and see if there's any key leakage.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller neither of these are "easy" in the sense of windows. you'll have to do research and work the elbow grease to see results.
phf: mod6: we have the 3rd party signed tarballs, that we can't convert to v because of the binary problem. i think asciilifeform doesn't want to fallback to doing the same with own releases. wants to solve binary problem, or find some alternative solution. there's also been a lot of sentiment here against using sha/sig combination. "sign the thing itself" etc.
mircea_popescu: the part where "please don't make me turn ascii into tarballs" is sensible, just, lets see what he actually is talking about.
mod6: phf: oh i get it. i lead by example with trb on this. there is no good solution here. we do not want blobs in V, and somewhere between a-z you end up with a blob that must get signed along with the vpatches.
mod6: there may be some better solution to this with deedbot.
mod6: it currently does not exist.
mod6: now. if you need to ship, this instant. you either do what you can, as I did, or you do nothing until you can.
mod6: if I were him, this is what I would do: take the schematic blob, encode it, clearsign it with a note at the top and a hash of its output value. submit to deedbot. next, edit the code somewhere or prefereably create a README.txt that points to that deed, create a new fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch and fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch.alf.sig on nosuchlabs.com, point to them with your www.
mod6: i'll even run a mirror of it myself if anyone would like me to do so.
mircea_popescu: mod6 hang on hang on, it's not even clear any actual blobs are involved this time around.
mod6: ok, cool! then just leave that part out.
mircea_popescu always found the absence of the range datatype a kind-of lulzy thing in cs.
mod6: I think it would be really cool to have something like !!deedbot <wotpaste_of_vpatch> <pgp_sig_of_wotpaste_vpatch>
mircea_popescu: mod6 the only q is whether this isn't redundant ; and if it isn't, whether the utility doesn't belie bad design etc.
mod6: It could place those in, just as it does regular deeds.. I'd say, if anyone is a good lisp dev (phf, whomever) to work with trinque to get this feature put into place.
mircea_popescu: this needs a proper discussion, and the exact reforms/solutions aren't evident yet.
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, makse sense.
mod6: Once a solution is realized, I encourage you gentlemen to work together, putting previous disagreements aside.
mircea_popescu: (Deliziosa creatura, vuoi le mie mutande sporche, le mie vecchie mutande? Sai che ciò è di una raffinatezza impareggiabile? Vedi come sono sensibile al valore delle cose? Ascolta, angelo mio, io ho il più gran desiderio del mondo di contentarti in questo poiché sai che rispetto i gusti. I capricci, per barocchi che essi siano, li trovo tutti rispettabili. Sia perché non ne siamo arbitri, sia perché anche il più singola
mircea_popescu: re e il più bizzarro — a ben analizzarlo — risale sempre a un principe de délicatesse... e sì, vecchi rottinculo: esprit de délicatesse!)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i imagine it's a global "search all accessible webservers connected to bitcoin".
mircea_popescu: the dubious part is how exactly it'd pay, the wallet encryption is strong as far as we know.
mircea_popescu: then again, if password is a1rPl4nE as per debian best practices...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, intel has file on 365 coin . keccak (because "Earth friendly") etc.
BingoBoingo: Woodcoin, blocks added to chain by chopping
BingoBoingo: WHich is wrong, should be glueing, screwing, doweling, or mortise and tenon
phf: i think woodcoin is best altcoin. everyone else is going for the whole cyberpunk fastcompany vibe, while these guys are earnestly doing their own thing. it's like an elven technology department, established by young visionaries despite the disapproval of the elders, their servers all run on thermal generators somewhere in the cascadians, etc.
mircea_popescu: man... look here, you throw total shitfit, i repress poor Framedragger to make some space for the discussion, you seamlessly move into vintage lulz and log readings. wth is this.
mircea_popescu: come to the argument with your argument prepared to be argued.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: Last 9 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is the matter with sending to deedbot the item #1 wrapped in a "This is a notarized version of the original root of the so and so project, prepared for this and that etc" ?
mircea_popescu: but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
☟︎ shinohai: asciilifeform: is this the `blessed` method for use with fg at moment?
mircea_popescu: no see, nevermind the practice. of major import here is the possibility that we've obtained a theoretical challenge through practice
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 18:26 mircea_popescu: but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
mircea_popescu: (in any case the reason that the two haven't merged sooner was that in my head business (ie, dealings in between people) and code (ie, dealings in between machines) were fundamentally separated. but i'm very interested in whether this notion actually stands to scrutiny.)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu wanders off to add danielpbarron eu patch and see what happens.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-10 13:15 adlai: ;;later tell mircea_popescu submission for trilema movie reviews: Inside Man
mircea_popescu: incidentally, is there such a thing as an "ai code commenter" ? specifically, rather than the hard problem of "human speech" or junk of that nature, is there any machine approach to turning compileable code into literate code (kuhn) ?
mod6: To start a bit deeper of a discussion surrounding what we talked about with 'infrastructure' for V, if it's necessary or not, or whatever. I kinda put some thoughts down;
http://dpaste.com/2S08M67.txt mircea_popescu: mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
☟︎ mod6: I did that, as to not spam the channel here, and to try to think through what my entire thought might have been. If there is any merit to my thoughts, I'll post it somewhere.
mod6: Something just to start the thought of what to do about all of this. Maybe there is even some folding into a UCI with this, not sure.
mod6: Or tb0t for that matter.
mod6: Eh, I don't even think I like my own idea.
mod6: Food for thought I guess. :/
phf: asciilifeform: i'm sad your schematic is missing the annotation. how will we know in thousand years time that it was indeed penned by the blessed leibowitz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think he means you didn't put your name on it
phf: ~it is also a joke~ i have no idea with you people any more
mircea_popescu: mod6 seems more like you want phf's bot to have an irc submission interface ?
mircea_popescu: which i think he intends to do on his own once he's happy with the whole tower ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's something fundamentally visceral about the written page you're entirely inadherent to, as seen here and in the case of clearsigns etc. pass by reference is not the same as pass by value!
mod6: yeah, that could probably be a decent feature there. i do recall phf talking about it.
mircea_popescu: but in truth there's two kinds of kids in the kindergarten, those who go around writing their name on all the cubes and those who go around pointing at all the things and saying "mine!"
mircea_popescu: dude wtf new process is this, they just bake 5mn and then filter out the working resonators out of a collodial suspension ?
mircea_popescu: "you mean the rng tool can't even keep fucking time ?" "aha"
phf: welcome to dataflow country
phf: shinohai: your log link is broken
Framedragger: asciilifeform: for my education, so the way to make yoke test work is that the 'master' part outputs its clock via the reset pin? (this is prolly what mircea_popescu meant but it's new territory for me).
mircea_popescu: now question for the mathematicians in attendance : obviously we know that if you want to "keep bot mining tethered to this point" the approach is to implement drunk walk. this however will result in a gradient intensity of steps, decreasing from the origin. now - how do we shape the intensity distribution so that eg the maximal intensity is in a circle around the origin, while maintaining the desirable properties of the drun
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform next i'm gonna specifically exclude beedogs when asking !
mircea_popescu: hehe. anyway. drunkwalk it's extremely beautiful/elegant solution to very serious class of problems, as exemplified in this minign thing. i'm having a ball with it.
mircea_popescu: problem is "keep sample locations tethered to this origin"
mircea_popescu: (well, could, in this implementation doesn't bother to though)
mircea_popescu: (also recommended reading - mr dantzig's work. now that was one hell of a homework doer.)
trinque:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584817 << could very well be that the habits of speech in RU and TX are so different as to cause severe friction. same effect happens between TX and just about anywhere in US, too. wasn't confused about what "lowered into pederasty" meant though.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
trinque catching up, deeding detached sigs is not that hard
Framedragger: (exists, i think, in "being and time"? but i've only read excerpts, longish ago)
trinque has a seething hatred of the mind that holds the hive as the bedrock of reality, can cause a strong reaction.
Framedragger: (in .lt it's translated as "they" which is prolly not very good)
trinque: only insofar as "they cured cancer"
trinque: yeah, this "they" is an unfeature
phf: it's the equivalent of diff's @@ -0,0 +1,437 @@. i just dump whatever's being stored in patch's fields, without any special formatting
phf: i can switch it to familiar format, but i only vaguely remember what the numbers actually mean. something about where the chunk is, and how many lines were dropped. etc.
mircea_popescu: "das man", that average animal of two goats and three rabbits. but still, two words etc.
mod6: thanks, nice pics :]
Framedragger: actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
☟︎ Framedragger: danielpbarron: and since you have three occurrences of it in 3.1415926545 may as well make it into an actual constant var maybe? /trivial-grammer-nazi-notes
phf: or grab M_PI from math.h include
phf: yeah, knuth's literate programming style prefers own defines to things like that, when a define is a property of code, rather than artifact of environment
danielpbarron: that was from memory so apparently i memorized it wrong
Framedragger: (just to be clear, there were two digits wrong (3.14159265_3_5), and the last one (it should go up by one due to proceeding digit). as phf said, math.h has that constant defined, but eh:)
Framedragger: in math terms, probably that when selecting new angle angle, there is a statistical bias towards one side from the current angle? so that if it were a person, one of the legs would be shorter, and the person would be inclined towards one side when walking somewhere.
Framedragger: (if you then draw path of person with enough datapoints (sufficient amount of choose-new-angle events), you'd get an arc/circle.)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 20:29 Framedragger: actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
mircea_popescu: course the error here is enough to drift the miner one full step in 1bn explore attempts, which is far outside what anyone ever managed to do in one run.
Framedragger: maybe one day eulora will test the limits of common software when the exploration or quality determination during crafting or whatever requires infinite precision real numbers :p
Framedragger: (which is doable and there are libraries for it, it's just slow of course)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 20:37 asciilifeform: re: analogue rng, let's say you have a rat in a cage, want to use him for rng. you give him a toggle to press, connect it between 'out' and 'ground', with a pull-up to 'power' (10Kohm or more).
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it already tests the limits of common understanding, with good stuff like pricing, industry models, etc.
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
☟︎ Framedragger: you know, sometimes i'm tempted to write up some kind of graphics-less (otherwise it's not feasible) civ-style simulator with proper economics, including contracts, liquidity etc etc. maybe eulora is the place to explore all that hm :)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger certainly going towards player-run towns etc.
mircea_popescu: and yes, alt-client for emacs etc has long been desired. if you make it happen there's eulora riches for you.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
mircea_popescu: (this is not currently feasible in eulora ; but you could have a fixed ratio by togling walk/run each step)
Framedragger: slippery slope into simulating anatomy! (is this bad? mno) :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
☟︎ danielpbarron: no, run walk wouldn't do it. have to get a random number from 0 to pi and then randomly add pi to it based on a given chance
danielpbarron: the random from 0 to pi picks which angle to use within a certain half of the circle (of possible angles), and adding pi to it would put it in the other half
danielpbarron: i don't see how moving forward more or less after having turned a random angle would change the overall pattern
danielpbarron: Framedragger suggested that the character prefer to move left over right (or vice versa)
mircea_popescu: yeah there is that, in theory. in practice, you can't implement it anyway, walk/run toggle is all you got.
danielpbarron: could add another number to the already long /bot explore command
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: don't think that's nonsense - it's simply introducing a bias into choosing "which direction - left or right - should i prefer", no? or do you mean that it's not "realistic" and would look stupid? (maybe...)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger if you introduce that bias you turn it into directional movement.
Framedragger: ah, i was probably under the assumption that the movement was already directional, i.e. that the next-angle-choice was infrequent...
Framedragger: oh, i know the issue. damn. basically as part of its "have i archived this?" check it greps through log of "i archived this:"; the "dev" instance was crawling through a 500K logfile, the production one however has to cope with ~220M logfile. not feasible...
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 18:44 mircea_popescu: mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
Framedragger: yes, just horribly slow. will look into solutions
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your kindergarten went out of business, what can i tell you.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 23:11 mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
danielpbarron: mining generally means running foxybot which gathers (/explore) and optionally builds the resulting exploration markers and collects the resulting resources
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 23:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
danielpbarron: the default method is 'line' which doesn't use rand(). but i've recently added a method which uses rand() to choose which direction to turn before moving to the next /explore attempt
danielpbarron: the randomness is generated and used strictly on the user's end. the server doesn't care which direction you walk