BingoBoingo: In the latest update sometime within the next three days the fiber company will call to set up an appointment to install a pipe to the apartment.
mod6: thanks for the script mircea_popescu!
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-25 22:13 asciilifeform: !Qddg 0xb93d6539
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-26 02:33 ben_vulpes: i'm not familiar with the design imperative driving the individual transaction size limitation, is there a reason to keep an individual from making a 1mb transaction if they'd like to?\
a111: Logged on 2015-03-23 21:11 mircea_popescu: if i want to make a txn that's 1mb, i do.
mod6: i'll take a look here in a sec.
mod6: you could do it with an iterator too, but that's not quite as clean.
mod6: which also leads me to see that in your code, you're attempting to use an iterator to loop over a map<string, string> , and add the keys to argKeys. but you never did set the iterator to mapArgs.begin()
mod6: so that might need to be fixed.
deedbot: tim17 voiced for 30 minutes.
tim17: asciilifeform: stfu bitch
ben_vulpes: and to think i spent all that time poring over the boost docs
ben_vulpes: heh, last time i took a crack at *that* i got mired in finding unspent outputs with trb
☟︎ ben_vulpes: do you have any output selection scripts you keep around?
ben_vulpes: and yeah, i could possibly put this time into humping trinque's wallet patches down the field
mod6: he's probably got some worthwhile changes
trinque: they're ready, being held because I haven't reground the entire tree around a manifest.
trinque: so if there's a hero around that wants to take that on, we can start getting trb patches out the door again.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: for the sake of exploring the state space; it is more desirable to regrind the whole tree rather than to introduce the manifest at this point and use it going forward?
mod6: i'll regrind the whole trb tree. however, I think if we -must- do this, we should only do it one time. and i really don't even want to do it at all.
mod6: that said, everything must be pretty much "firmly" in place with V rules, manifest, naming conventions, what have you, before I wanna move on that.
mod6: everything documented and blessed.
mod6: so this is all in lisp. is it going to be simple for n00bs to get lisp installed and to run V?
trinque: the blog post there is talking about the manifest file format.
mod6: Step two of the guide says "Ensure at least one of the following is installed:" "sbcl" or "ccl"
mod6: anyway, I guess I'll have to put this on the conveyor and work through all of this.
ben_vulpes: mod6: focus on the manifest design, not the v implementation linked in trinque 's post
ben_vulpes: shouldn't matter in the slightest which v impl is used
mod6: is his lisp version of V to become the new defacto thing that has manifest capabilities?
ben_vulpes: "manifest capabilities" are baked into all V implementations
trinque: there ~are no~ manifest capabilities to be had
ben_vulpes: it's a single file that collapses the tree into a pillar
trinque: the words I wrote right there gave it as an example of "this needs a manifest"
mod6: ben_vulpes: im trying to look at the big picture. the manifest spec is a part of that, ya.
mod6: alright, gents, I'll have to dig into all of this sometime.
ben_vulpes: mod6: my original q was in re why regrinding the whole tree is necessary instead of introducing the manifest now and using it going forward
trinque: ben_vulpes: because the manifest has no antecedent, and you're gonna have to go graffiti other files like an idiot
☟︎ trinque: as the tree stands now, one in makefiles.vpatch, iirc
trinque imagines a house which required a tattoo on your neighbor's wife to keep standing
trinque: probably not bad metaphor for how life does it.
ben_vulpes: well in theory, but in practice everything below makefiles already needs a regrind; aggression to request newblocks if none have been advertised recently; hash truncation atop that. so there's an opportunity to significantly reduce the amount of regrinding by introducing the manifest after the makefiles release and just regrinding 2 patches instead of the whole tree. unless i misread the situation.
trinque: this must be that orthogonal language I've heard about.
mod6: i see ben's point, but i'd rather trb one whole thing, instead of a 'before manifest' and 'after manifest'.
trinque: wherever you introduce the manifest, if it is not the root, in order to involve it in the flow of the tree, that patch must also edit some other file.
mod6: opting to regrind the entire tree, and whatever other vpatches that need to be folded in that currently are not.
mod6: I can delcare the v054 release with a manifest of my own ala: To declare a "release", an author's GNS pointer for a project would point to his selected manifest.
mod6: then perhaps all the things that are still not folded in can be in a second release, or just folded in without release.
mod6: we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. but first and foremost, the manifest items seems alright to me; "$blockCount $patchTitle $patchAuthor $comment".
mod6: I read this all a while back when posted, liked it, will think on it some more -- but off hand, can't think of anything we might be missing.
ben_vulpes: s/after makefiles/in the makefiles patch/
mod6: Perhaps we need to 1: Formally adopt the manifest spec proposed by trinque, 2: build a V that supports it.
phf: trinque: ftr we have the "introduce manifest now without regrind, use it moving forward" pattern already implemented once
a111: Logged on 2018-06-15 17:26 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-15#1825631 << updated, but it's a novel way of using manifest though: normally it requires a regrind where manifest is built up as you go, so the press order is enforced through graph. right now your manifest gives a press order, that's not enforced by anything
trinque: phf: harping on it because I don't see evidence that reason for the manifest has been internalized
trinque: mod6: what do you imagine needs to change in a vtron to support the manifest?
mod6: it's just a flat file that resides in the project, ya?
mod6: ah, then nothing i can think of. don't know what i was on about there.
mod6: should it be a part of a proper genesis?
mod6: because if so, then we need a new trb genesis. which doesn't effect v in anyway, just another pita for trb.
mod6: maybe a necessary one, however.
trinque: see phf's linked line above. not strictly necessary
trinque: what it means is that before that point, there isn't a manifest-enforced press order
trinque: could decide that we're fine with that historical fact. world won't implode
phf: trinque: one reason i didn't include patch name in the manifest is because patch name becomes a promise, unless you enforce it by tooling. i didn't want to go that way, but since current standard manifest does include patch name, than perhaps V ought to check the manifest against the patchset. relatedly fully manifest-based v doesn't even need graph tooling, can presumably press according to manifest's chain.
☟︎ trinque: could say we want trb to be exemplar of "how to V", in which case yeah, regrind it all
☟︎ mod6: hmm. maybe not required in a technical sense. but i'd like it all to hang together, and be proper. for posterity.
trinque: phf: thought I had there was that if you have only a manifest in hand, perhaps the name is useful in some dht lookup for the patches later
trinque: I agree, promisetronic without the vtron getting angry at you over mismatched name
mod6: ah, interesting point re patch name
trinque: ben_vulpes: got it; yeah, I'd say if it gets bolted on, inside the makefiles patch is a sensible place
ben_vulpes: it's either there or regrind back to the genesis
ben_vulpes: in other reports, btcfor.gifts does indeed work for small amounts
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829629 << this constant worry at the margins and in the colonies as to "europe suicide". yes, obviously, if ~russia~ let a bunch of rando foreigners in, ~russia~ would disappear. but this is because russia isn't anything, let alone very much. europe is old, and throughout this oldness it "suicided" exactly in the manner described.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 16:25 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology dept,
https://archive.li/IAUet >> orlol,'Barbarians Rampage through Europe's Cemetery'
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 15:53 mircea_popescu: romania had no kingdom of sicily.
mircea_popescu: experimentally, barbarian invasion does not kill europe. not when the barbaric romans ruined the etruscan and greek vases, not when barbaric germans ruined the roman vases (you know iberia is originally a place in fucking azerbaijan, yes ?) not when etcetera.
mircea_popescu: you can't ruin cunt by fucking, it's not made of soap ; and that's what europe is, the globe's cunt.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem to work out to a better alternative ; a happenstance this current know-nothing party seems to be as blisfully unaware as the previous.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the inhabitants have 0 say in the process.
mircea_popescu: yes, the women are getting raped. that's what they're for. their "ideals" don't enter into this, thyey wanted ideals they shoulda been born with an ideals between the legs.
mircea_popescu: anyway -- to the folks playing host, it is interesting like a soviet food ratios stamp.
mircea_popescu: there's really no point of the curent bs continuing. it's lived out its last, time to re-cluny the continent.
mircea_popescu: and they're doing exactly that, and it's reasonable as it ever was, and i really dun see wtf the orlov's all about. "here's what i don't understand about astronomy" "ook ?"
mircea_popescu: exactly as described in 1984 : convincing pretense to conflict.
mircea_popescu: because people were pretending to be angry with each other back then
mircea_popescu: anger will keep a dead marriage going a few years, you noticed ?
BingoBoingo: Similarly "re-newing" vows tends to kill the marriage
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or for that matter, euro-tolerast welfare pie was as sweet in 1990s as today. why no boats of eager eaters in '90s ? << Khaddafi
mircea_popescu: tell me truly : do you perceive any cultural damage in islamist "colonists" in their own mind blowing up the brutalist "buildings" erected by the last gasps of the european socialist governments ?
mircea_popescu: maybe half of what the nazi built has some inkling of merit. but the rest, every public building built in eurpe the past century, belongs torn down.
mircea_popescu: at some point the people LIVING THERE notice this, you know ? even if dung-in-toes sheepboy orlov (laughing at the moreso-dung-in-toes other sheeboys, ha-ha!) doesn't notice this.
mircea_popescu: if he lived in the city rather than in the barn he maybe would. or maybe wouldn't, which is why he doesn't get to live in the city.
mircea_popescu: so there you go, everyone ends up sucking up to hitler, the intellectual giant of the 20th century.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 04:08 asciilifeform: in other veryolds, 'you'll feel no dismay, watching your house burn, after you get to see how the bedbug dies!' (korean proverb)
BingoBoingo: Eh, don't worry for the museum. Let it get some history of its own.
mircea_popescu: the german democratic republic is getting itself a new people, the old one disappointed.
mircea_popescu: aaand brecht can go hang out with the tulpas and just want to there in peace. win-win.
mircea_popescu: hey, chicks been slipping themselves mickeys in bars for decades. if it dun get up you get on your knees and suck on it, what can you do ?
mircea_popescu: what's needed's what's needed and what's done'd better fucking match up!
mircea_popescu: but yes, this objection is quite as strong as the "why trhe fuck did they need 60+ eyars to do it". i fully expect the "rape and slaughter of europe" to disappoint the eager victims. more of a fart than a raging hard-on, in any sense.
mircea_popescu: just think, there's in excess of 200mn cunts that desperately want and utterly need
http://trilema.com/2017/mom/ ; who's gonna do it to them, the fiddy arab youths a day ? have you seen any of these malnourished shitheads in your life ? a hearthy sneeze might blow 'em down.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:02 ben_vulpes: heh, last time i took a crack at *that* i got mired in finding unspent outputs with trb
mircea_popescu: though, amusingly, tamerlane did tax ~the same amt as these guys do.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall exactly figures etc, but the 0.1% republican tax is rather inspired by the mongol approach to government
a111: Logged on 2017-05-14 05:03 ben_vulpes: on an eeeentiiiiirely different topic, it took months but i recently got the part of my output indexer that excises spent outputs from the index map to compile, which i believe brings the indexer part of this foray to completion. i invite any who'd like to read and comment to download the (unsigned!) vpatch from here cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/export_outputs.vpatch
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is different from "i got mired in finding unspent outputs" ?
mircea_popescu: sounds more like "i conquered finding unspent outputs" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:13 trinque: so if there's a hero around that wants to take that on, we can start getting trb patches out the door again.
mircea_popescu: much better than having to resolve the "is it same trb" problem. what's the drawback ?
ben_vulpes: well now i have to look into this and figure out what drives the memory of getting stuck. very foggy memories suggest it was the pruning of spent outputs i was unsure of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd still do the "ablation of 2011-2017" later tbh.
trinque: if the question was why I linked that one, aside personal preferences, I recall there being some bug in the perl one, which wasn't in the lisp one.
mircea_popescu: the "multiple implementation" thing hasn't changed, just because there's a candidate reference one tbh.
trinque: the luxury of specified items, that there can be several
mircea_popescu: trinque as i recall mod6 had had enough of maintaining his ; but this doesn't mean his work to date vanished, any noob/other person at any point hindered by the lisp v can pick up mod6's and maintain it
mircea_popescu: not much of a technical problem, perhaps, but there really is no rush with that particular thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:26 trinque: ben_vulpes: because the manifest has no antecedent, and you're gonna have to go graffiti other files like an idiot
trinque: no, because the dependency graph is denoted through files, and not concepts
mircea_popescu: it's not being proposed as a retoactive fix. the idea is, ~after~ the patch that puts in a manifest, ~subsequent~ patches will be well ordered. and the fact that the earlier ones aren't exactly well ordered is a) resolved in any practical sense by the fact that you won't have patch imports across the barrier more than 1 deep (ie, once a patch after the manifest patch references a patch before the manifest patch, THAT refernec
mircea_popescu: ed patch is now also well ordered, "caught in the patchchain" as it were) and b) we can and very likely will re-organize the portion between genesis and the manifest patch later anyway.
trinque: cannot add a new, standalone file, without editing something that existed previously
mircea_popescu: trinque i can't imagine why not ?! what am i missing here ?
trinque: how's the patch look, that adds the new file?
mircea_popescu: let people ~adding later patches~ reference it as such.
trinque: yes, they have to reference it to bring it into the flow
trinque: aha, once there's a manifest, all's fine.
mircea_popescu: 1. you sign a new patch, manifest.patch. at this juncture, phf's viewer will show it to the side, unconnected to the tree.
mircea_popescu: 2. you sign another new patch, later on, "fixing-bugzappers.patch". this patch references manifest patch and ircbot-multichan-etc.
mircea_popescu: 3. you sign yet another new patch, hurr-biff.patch, referencing fixing-bugzappers.
mircea_popescu: if you find the manifest patrch is useful (as you do), YOU INCLUDE IT.
trinque: eh that accretion of patch material means patch size/readability is inversely proportional to modularity of the code
mircea_popescu: trinque which is why the regrind mechanism even exists
trinque: what's meant by "include it" here
ben_vulpes: reference the manifest file in a later patch.
trinque: what's it look like in the patch file
mircea_popescu: - A591AF341FF436F6A3391AA5163F6BC366358B719427154F88815D87213798C92EAE4923E6BE147B92C04562619564D7A64AD9AC51CA08E5165B0B4B3DA9813A
mircea_popescu: + 6ED286AA5D94E22E9087ABB55E14F7BB7EB0B098E490B0D4D6B6118BB72665C220910D24F957AC0E096A035E59A5BA3BB81AB63552010727D40AC7B8B4A2D8BB
trinque: anyhow, if we're talking about how to use the manifest, got it.
trinque: I was discussing how the manifest gets welded on, if welding on
mircea_popescu: through usage, basically. you see a problem with that ?
ben_vulpes: add a new file for the manifest, create a vpatch, any subsequent vpatches that don't also edit manifest must be reground into mainline.
mircea_popescu: supplanting ye olde "use special signatures", which i gather was bulky
trinque: right, subsequent usage pulls it in.
trinque: wont be able to press a "makefiles" + manifest until that subsequent patch, but I don't really see a problem with that
trinque: I brought up the graffiti because that'd be (and has historically been, before manifest) the way to attach the graph
mircea_popescu: in other events : a new resource type just got discovered in eulora
diana_coman: aha, I guess now I have to post a screenshot with alf-dedication :P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in further lulz : it's classified under... LUMBER
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:45 phf: trinque: one reason i didn't include patch name in the manifest is because patch name becomes a promise, unless you enforce it by tooling. i didn't want to go that way, but since current standard manifest does include patch name, than perhaps V ought to check the manifest against the patchset. relatedly fully manifest-based v doesn't even need graph tooling, can presumably press according to manifest's chain.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:45 trinque: could say we want trb to be exemplar of "how to V", in which case yeah, regrind it all
mircea_popescu: basically, we just introduced the possibility of "light nodes" :D
mircea_popescu: point being, "blind" v could exist that just puts in the patches as seen in manifest, checks no sigs.
mircea_popescu: i recall a very early item, i don't expect much value buried there but lessee
mircea_popescu: from ~the same period. but yes, there was some discussion, hm
mircea_popescu: you know what, thios might've been private discussions in nsa boardroom during early cardano mockups etc ?
mircea_popescu: problem is my thinking moved away from "hardware wallet" because, honestly, what's needed is a hardware computer.
mircea_popescu: am i going to have no rng in this wallet ? how make change address then ?
mircea_popescu: am i going to have rng ? how small can it then be ? if not small, and rng, why is it not using a proper terminal ?
mircea_popescu: fg is large enough to make this "hardware wallet" not a credit card.
mircea_popescu: there's no half inch dolphin either, and for a reason as well.
mircea_popescu: and if you're making your dolphin 100kgs, why are you making it a sea anemone, could just as well make it dolphin.
mircea_popescu: last fucking thing i need is a pile of briefcases, each painted red, and labeled. "this one -- does hashing."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but what it needs dun matter; thing is... what do you need ?
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, why am i even having "a wallet", as opposed to say a rsa'd privkey list.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "but mp, that's what you told them to make the wallet, and they did, back in 2012 or w/e"
mircea_popescu: reheheheally ?! look at that damned thing sometime. it's encrypted like i'm gay.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, cheers! and updated with floating image because that screenshot was lousy beyond belief
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 20:27 mircea_popescu: come to think of it, why am i even having "a wallet", as opposed to say a rsa'd privkey list.
mircea_popescu: but my point is -- by the time this iron actually signs, this iron actually also manages signatures, and therefore this iron actually is a rsatron.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "how to cut" piece is the controlling element here, because i don't even recall if we came up wioth a definitive answer.
mircea_popescu: s.mg would be amenable to a deal whereby s.nsa puts a custom built npc in eulora and handles exchanges of euloran microchips for its own products (atm, fg)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we'll also need a little bit of code to handle it and i guess a special dolly yes ?
mircea_popescu: so here's some wonderment for today : random fetlife slut follows a webirc link (doh, what, irc exists ?!?!?!) and ends up here, at 14:58. sits here quietly, and patiently, until at 15:05 i say something. that's SEVEN WHOLE MINUTES. this alone, you know ? and then, puts another FOUR solid minutes in wtfing this thing, so that at 15:09 she can <kiyleeslut> Found it :).
mircea_popescu: ~at which point~ the whole flood starts. not earlier, or anything.
mircea_popescu: how, just HOW did this entire tower of chair work out to the maximal annoyance point ? absolutely NOTHING the esltards do is nearly this good at any purpose they ever declare.
mircea_popescu: somehow some idiots produced "smartphones" for which some other idiots "wrote software" which other idiots are using, and the end delivery is THIS
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but my question is, HOW ? the iphone is not as watertight, not as long-lived, not as bright, colorful, not as ANYTHING as it is fucking annoying.
mircea_popescu: ten thousand people managed to coordinate to produce something that's 40% blue and 85% interesting and 62% warm and 92% square and 100.00% FUCKING ANNOYING.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform precisely. how the fuck is this possible, if they worked at winning a war they'd lose, but when they don't work at sticking in my craw they manage.
hanbot: mircea_popescu by design apple exists to try and make you use its thing, whether it's some itam or some os or some cable, and it'll make things maximally unpleasant for anyone not on the bandwagon, at any point where the nonapple and the apple touch.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: besides, i betcha she's on some droid thing, rather than apple specifically.
☟︎ trinque: thing's meant to train neuroses into the user, and amplifies them. neurotic brain's output is pretty damned annoying.
trinque: she probably twitched away to some red dot, had to go get the food pellet
mircea_popescu: once my seething rage piped down it occured to me that "dood, what you're almost entirely about is a rejection of the lamenormal. why are you wondering that consummate normalcy gets you pissed off and why are you surprised it produces itself ?!"
☟︎ ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: can you buy amazon gift cards for cash in uruguay?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: possibly stupid notion i had last night i'd like to float for your cfo-ly advice: with the exchange rate in the shitter, and the clear and present demand for fiat-denominated assets, how bad of an idea would it be to sell usd-denominated bonds? mod6 and asciilifeform thoughts also pls
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 19:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in further lulz : it's classified under... LUMBER
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: can you buy amazon gift cards for cash in uruguay? << I can look. Since people tend to do Amazon through intermediaries here I don't suspect there's much of a market for the gift cards.
BingoBoingo: Amazon only recently came to have an official though limited presence in Argentina
ben_vulpes: amusing, because they handle the intermediation themselves now
BingoBoingo: Usually to other latino places or Miami, but still they do it
BingoBoingo: In other almost news there's now a WPA 3 standard for wifi crypto. "enterprise" version features "strong" 192 bit crypto
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and this absolves of the need to hedge?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 21:37 mircea_popescu: what, and turn it into a financial speculator ? usually firms go that way after making so much revenue they run out of capital goods they might buy
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 21:21 mircea_popescu: besides, i betcha she's on some droid thing, rather than apple specifically.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 21:43 mircea_popescu: a more even split makes the "solar winds" 0-delta.
ben_vulpes: if a 'javier' name shows up and my attention is elsewhere, someone please up the fellow, i'd like to build bridges out of lbtc and he might be one