a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 23:31 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf wouldja happen to have a frozen nonretarded version of bordeaux-threads somewhere ? the one i have, is utterly sad, squats nickname 'bt' which prevents binary-types from working...
phf: out of curiousity i went through the log, and bordeaux-threads had that bt nickname pretty much since creation, in 2006
phf: (btcbase uses 0.8.5, though i might have an older version somewhere on backup drives)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 00:17 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862183 << no, i don't use portability packages in my own code (they are the hole through which the darkness comes), and when something pulls it as a dependency, it comes from quicklisp
phf: asciilifeform: well, a portability layer is the ultimate ifdef, and in this case worse written by somebody else
phf: one of the major wtfs when reading asdf code, is that when all the ifdef's fall through, hte system falls back to some seriously questionable solutions, like shelling out to unix level with elaborate commands (i don't remember the example, but it's almost like "mkdir {} && cd ..." type stuff)
phf: but you would never know, because in sbcl it generally does the right thing
☟︎ phf: well, after reading the CADR documentation, source code and generally spending more time on a lisp machine, i realized that modern common lisp is a cargo cult. i'm not sure how naggum didn't see it, but possibly because his lisp was emacs/cmucl/franz
phf: it's a compatability layer between lisp machines, and as such provides a minimum of coverage of common functionality.
phf: yeah, pretty much. a totally different experience from, say, sbcl, and a lot closer to a real lisp machine too. comes with all the things builtin, so you never really need to touch outside world
phf: i suspect you might discover it to be same kind of situation as tinyscheme
phf: yeah, i wrote a small subset of bitcoin protocol in lisp, but rolled my own binary types. i think i can ask for version, and i can also ask for peers, and i started on getblock functionality..
phf: i wonder what sort of technology those heathen node walkers use, i.e. if it's a patched up bitcoin client, or if they have own protocol parsers. seems like too much serious know how for the later
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform:
https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have come around to thinking of the process that leads to this "wished helplessness"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Bingostan having 4 public nodes
BingoBoingo: "wished helplessness" goes with hallucinated optionality
phf: i was like "wtf, kind of shit ascii accidentally pasted instead of the real url" :p
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, if they wish hard enough they don't have to not lie
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Right, it is a niggers.txt.xls document
phf: so it looks like bvt is correct, there's no way to make ada's Create throw an exception if the file already exists
☟︎ BingoBoingo: phf: it is the NPC meme vs the Russian bot meme
phf: we're way down the rabbit hole here
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Found on the return of kink guy's forum. Apparently was originally found on twitter.
ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the remaining stateside fuckgoats are packed in a specific box that i will relocate with my person.
phf: bvt: your patch has "Binary files..." at the very end of it. i assume it wasn't made with vdiff
☟︎ phf: !Q later tell bvt ^^
phf: the other thing, and that's somewhat of a personal preference, i think Create_Temporary_File should either act identical to create or be called something else. right now it clashes with ada's naming convention
phf: but without the name, so you call it, and you get an open file right away, rather than dragging around a useless name)
phf: oh i guess i see why that would be tricky, because of the specialization. i don't know enough ada yet to know how to fix that... perhaps just renaming it to Temporary_File is sufficient
☟︎ phf: i like how C 2012 standard says that x flag works "to the extent that the underlying system supports exclusivity". of course no indication when it doesn't..
phf: diana_coman: i've updated eucrypt to keccak, i also added ave1's patch there. also brought udp up to date.
phf: the graph appears to be complete, and the project also presses, thank you for jumping through all the hoops!
phf: the gift that keeps on giving
phf: asciilifeform: i actually forgot! i'm swamped right now, but can you remind me again in about two weeks, i have a thing for you from the dig that will help with the little piece of silicon you have
☟︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 04:30 Mocky:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862167 >> I don't see how it would necessarily be any simpler aside from one `if` statement. And there's nothing to stop listening on separate ports and getting all benefits asciilifeform mentions with different sizes
mircea_popescu: there's exactly nothing similar between rsa packet and serpent packet. for the same money could ask to have busses and flour delivered in single container.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 07:49 diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862213 -> it's more than just one if statement (although unnecessary branches in themselves are not great anyway); basically it's the udp code itself that has to be messed up to accommodate this particular thing - either using generic or otherwise using the largest of the two and then filtering one level higher
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no such thing as label in context.
mircea_popescu: in fact, this is precisely what you're objecting to, "why should kerosene bottle have a slightly taller red cap, should have exact same cap as water bottle!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not redundant because the rsa processor is "best effort", ie, only goes if there's spacetime in machine
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 07:53 diana_coman: in fact the 3rd option that is the one actually to use is having different sizes on the two processes (i.e. different constant simply)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i possibly dun wanna drag the nice thing into it, but i dunno, way too early to optimize this partuclar pile.
mircea_popescu: bvt "Ada exposes no functions that have 'exclusive open' semantics, so I imported C
☟︎ mircea_popescu: functions to make this functionality available." << im not so crazy about this approach, but hey. if it links it links.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 11:56 diana_coman: bvt, get yourself a pizarro shared account and start your blog there precisely with those pastes, what's keeping you?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 12:55 lobbes: and speaking of auctionbot: development is complete. At the moment I am getting ready to begin some prod testing and then all that's left is to write the blog post explaining the usage. Getting close!
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 20:41 trinque: billymg: hold onto that new ebuild for cuntoo.
trinque: asciilifeform: what's left is finishing ebuilding-up phf's vtools, then release
phf: trinque: are you waiting on delete/rename or you have your own things to work on?
trinque: not blocked on anything afaik, improvements to vtools can come in as another patch for the ebuild tree
phf: i don't think i'll be able to cut rename tonight, and then i'll be busy until friday, though will try to steal an hour here and there
mircea_popescu has been watching nude girlies dancing with mops and detailing floors on all fours (+high heels! who else has platform houseshoes?!) all day, is in a pretty great mood.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 15:08 lobbes: "castle-only" may be the way to go anyways; I'm not sure #trilema even needs the auctionbot to sit in here
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated mocky 3 at 2018/10/10 16:39:15 << Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 15:55 diana_coman: as it is, it will be a .vpatch after the lookup implementation - so linear sequence rather than alternative; you might want to branch the tree instead from *before* the lookup implementation so that your div version is effectively alternative branch
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862386 << not at all! there's two possible ways to implement crc32 : with lookup tables, and with plain division. these are mutually exclusive. type 1 is faster, and therefore mainline. type 2 is smaller, and therefore of interest in certain contexts. therefore, at leaf=n, one has to chose : either n+1 type 1, or else n+1 type 2.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:11 diana_coman: ah, you mean that the only way to do this is to take crc32 out of eucrypt tree?
mircea_popescu: the leaves downstream from EACH n1 needn't be identical, nor needn't be different. in effect, the tree now has TWO groups of maintainers : those who maintain type 2 tree, for embeds, will not === those who maintain type 1 tree, for general use.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: IF the groups ever diverge absolutely, they MIGHT eventually re-genesis the thing, making all leaves 1...n into a unified genesis and continuing from there.
mircea_popescu: but while there's overlap of people contributing to both type 1 and type 2 branches, it's more likely the situation will continue unground.
mircea_popescu: in any case, type1 might get i dunno, later-patch-taking-advantage-of-ddram whereas type 2 might get later-patch-needed-for-old-arms etc.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:13 diana_coman: I honestly don't quite see the point of taking crc32 out for instance
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:16 asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc mircea_popescu in particular specifically hates libs-as-separate-trees, insists that proggy oughta include errything it eats. ( i dun recall whether he answered why it should not also then include the os and compiler also in same genesis, but i'ma leave thread alone for nao)
mircea_popescu: kinda the fucking point, building yggdrasil over here.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862397 << because cut-and-paste was never contemplated as a possible alternative, it was read-and-rewrite. because moving from one tree to another is exactly translation, one must bear in mind context and only implement ~the algo~. consider how we got crc32 -- we did NOT cut-and-paste from anywhere. diana RE WROTE IT!
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:18 asciilifeform: imho 'unifiers' (i.e. patch that pulls in specific state from a parallel tree) is a cleaner way of accomplishing this than cut&paste, but i was unable to persuade.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862400 << #1 thing you do, is you TALK TO PEOPLE! there is no jwz way out of politics. if regrind hurts you, tell them not to fucking do it ; and if they won't listen tell whoever will listen to not follow the new thing. and so fucking on.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:21 diana_coman: asciilifeform, trouble is - what do you do then when/if that tree gets reground?
mircea_popescu: v-tree lives through wot and through wot alone, it's not some kind of self contained magic.
mircea_popescu: to quote, \"As usual, the forum quickly pointed me in the right direction - thank you ave1! - namely looking under the hood of course, in this case GNAT's own hood, the Systems.CRC32 package. Still, this package makes a whole dance of eating one single character at a time since it is written precisely to support the stream monstrosity on top rather than to support the user with what they might indeed need. Happily though, CRC
mircea_popescu: 32 is a very simple thing and absolutely easy to lift and package into 52 lines of code in the .adb file + 130 in the .ads file so 182 all in total1, comments and two types of input (string or raw array of octets) included."
mircea_popescu: this is 100% "read and rewrite" and entirely and absolutely NOT copy/paste.
mircea_popescu: nor does such a thing as "empty buffer" truly exist, nor is it any kind of substantial distinction, and so on.
mircea_popescu: imo this "empty buffer" notion is leftover implanted brain electrode from ustard academia/schooling. "oh, gotta be original". no such fucking thing ; and the only reason they talk about it is to keep intelligent people from doing important work.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in fact, a very solid basis for respect is, "whenever i sit down to rewrite x, i end up writing what he wrote ; whereas whenever i sit down to rewrite y, i end up using empty page. thus therefore x is rated 5 and y -10"
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
mircea_popescu: in any case historically this ~exact process~ is how eg djb ended up with the modicum of respect he then proceeded to squander.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: and then you are stuck maintaining those multiple trees - what's the benefit in that?
mircea_popescu: which is the fucking problem with current versioning systems, they encourage illegitimate context creation, of the sort of "i need to publish or perish therefore let us rename biology and rediscover it".
mircea_popescu: eg, branching the eucrypt tree over embeds/mainstream is (possibly ?) sustainable ; whereas branching it over "joe needs a project to direct to justify his employment with shithat" is exactly as sustainable as post-2018 linux.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: once you bring it into your tree, you don't care about the original tree so ...how stuck?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 04:22 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862411 << but if you don't care about computers why are you talking to them ? you're not ~dependent~ on it, but i presume you care to some degree.
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 04:20 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862408 << the benefit is that if they are legitimate multi, then there's different context which is well handled ; and if they are illegitimate (in the sense of, no context to well handle) there's pressure there to collapse.
diana_coman: I read and re-read and I get the impression that this sort of delayed conversation doesn't work very well so I'll leave it for now
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 03:57 mircea_popescu: in any case, type1 might get i dunno, later-patch-taking-advantage-of-ddram whereas type 2 might get later-patch-needed-for-old-arms etc.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:13 diana_coman: yes, the way I currently see it now is pretty much that: trunk (main line) goes along the production versions of all stuff (crc32 or keccak or whatever else) and otherwise at the respective points there can be additional branches /leaves with the reference implementations
diana_coman: in the more general case it can branch for all sorts of reasons and continue on those branches for as long as needed, of course
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 06:49 diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
mircea_popescu: tree A is single if there exists a "most extensive press" that includes all possible presses are included ; tree A is multi if no such MEP exists.
diana_coman: there isn't any question that I see remaining there; I think what happened was that I was thinking a bit out loud in the logs yesterday and I got to same conclusion basically but then you started answering to the first part and some things were not unclear at a distance too and so the whole thing
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:49 asciilifeform: ave1: there is not much to be said further re subj, i looked into what actually comes out of my lan, it sends 1500 frames upstream always.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 04:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
ave1: Alternatively I was thinking about some simple speed tests (i.e. half size udp messages would translate in < half bandwith of max size udp messages)
ave1: mircea_popescu, I'm doing packet sniffing (with wireshark and netsniff etc) and I see different ethernet frame sizes reported
mircea_popescu: but are you dumping the raw frames ? or are they reconstructed the "indended" packet for you ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 16:54 asciilifeform: on 1 occasion it was found necessary to build a icbm rocket that is too heavy for 1 car. head designer v. f. utkin found solution, he had a system of springs to distribute the weight between ~two~ cars. this is analogous to udp fraggism.
ave1: This I do not know (it looks raw). I'am probably doomed to read the linux network stack.
ave1: So far (by reading about this), I found that some NICs can do part of the framing for the OS (but I would expect that to be for large messages and not for small ones)
ave1: So if this part of framing happens at the hardware level then the connection to what is reported to the OS and actually on the line is weak
mircea_popescu: "raw packet", "raw frame", rawdog, etcetera. tcpdump/libpcap-likes tend to dump the packets not the frames.
mircea_popescu: listen on a raw socket. otherwise you're prolly getting what comes out of pf_packet, which is a packet.
ave1: netsniff-ng seems to show raw frames (eth mac is reported) but yes I'll look into the socket raw code
diana_coman: ave1, the .ads in your .vpatch still has the original comments saying that it's a lookup-based implementation, lol
ave1: diana_coman, Ach yes, I did copy-paste everything I did not touch
diana_coman: ave1, please update so I can sign the patch
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 00:54 asciilifeform: this line of thought was prompted by my 'trb observatory', which has uncovered a number of 'mpb'-style nodes, i.e. trb-like but not presenting 'modern' vers and therefore invisible from heathen www indices
ave1: diana_coman, updated!
ave1: note I kept the S.MG 2018 lines untouched
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 01:13 phf: so it looks like bvt is correct, there's no way to make ada's Create throw an exception if the file already exists
diana_coman: ave1, thanks, confirmed fine, I'll sign and mirror it on my shelf in a minute; (re s.mg lines - not a worry either way really)
diana_coman: hm, opening file for append however raises an exception if file does not exist
diana_coman: I used that at the udp tester to create file only if it does not exist
diana_coman: onth I'm not sure I want Create to throw exceptions - I want it to create the file and that's it, I don't care if it exists or not
mircea_popescu: specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: not clear to me if caching shenanigans or what. but anyways.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 asciilifeform: ty phf, will remind.
mircea_popescu: could work like !Q later tell == !Q 0 tell ; otherwise !Q 144 tell
ave1: btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
☟︎ deedbot: slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
slycordinator: Is anyone on here in contact with someone who runs loper-os.org? I got directed here from clicking the "contact" link there. On the site, people can't make comments on articles as the captcha software used is out of date
slycordinator: The message on the captcha display says "reCAPTCHA V1 IS SHUTDOWN. Direct site owners to g.co/repaptcha/upgrade"
ave1: slycordinator, you're looking for asciilifeform, he may be available in a couple of hours.
slycordinator: I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 21:09 bvt: Hello, I am BT from the recent diana_coman's comments section
slycordinator: So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
☟︎ ave1: slycordinator, that's very interesting, most people here are in the American Continents and some of us are in Europe (I'm in the Netherlands).
ave1: If you like to have a more permanent identity here, please register with deedbot
ave1: If you do, I'll rate you and you can self voice.
ave1: you like -> you would like
slycordinator: Sounds good. I'll come by on occasion; think my wife is annoyed with how much time I spend on the computer already though lol
deedbot: slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
ave1: You have a limited window in which to register yourself, deedbot gives you half an hour.
diana_coman: slycordinator, for how long have you been in Korea? (south?) ; you can also join #asciilifeform to talk to asciilifeform
diana_coman: and do register a key as otherwise your introduction will not have any person to be linked to
slycordinator: Yes, South Korea. I've been here since February although I lived here a few years ago. My wife is from here and missed her country
deedbot: 34D174A2C91396A0975B8301054605BDAB923812 registered as slycordinator.
ave1: !!rate slycordinator 1 new blood, in South Korea
ave1: !!v 5265653AA3B3CED1529AC5071FFC4CD4D8EBDDE1A3687C87A0AFD5D3832A41F0
deedbot: ave1 rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, in South Korea
slycordinator: And thank you for the info on the alternative for contacting asciilifeform; I'm looking into making a gentoo box for a NAS out of an ARM board he wrote up about
diana_coman: !!v E84934B83B58BF4EE3FC021E48E8306960681A188CF9C88AA326E6E8B5DF6F8A
deedbot: diana_coman rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, living in South Korea
slycordinator: currently, I've been using an old laptop for the purpose as-needed but I need to replace it with something
diana_coman: slycordinator, you prolly need to look at cuntoo as well then
slycordinator: Thanks for the pointer; first I've heard of it. I've used gentoo off-and-on for years. Although with my English teaching, I've mostly had to use windows since most materials shared around have been for MS Office (and the linux alternatives didn't work with the stuff usually)
ave1: slycordinator, you can voice yourself with !!up
deedbot: slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
slycordinator: So, I haven't purchased one of the devices but I'm considering it as a local NAS for plex.
slycordinator: and i was wanting to use a usb3 enclosure to salvage my laptop drive that's got the movies on it, using that for the / partition
slycordinator: but i wasn't sure if the install stuff you had on your site would work for that instead of using a usb stick because of drivers and such
slycordinator: shouldn't be difficult then to make the switch once i get everything
slycordinator: no; i've used gentoo off and on for a while. it would be my first raspberry pi-like box, though
slycordinator: thanks for the information again. i have to go to bed. it's late here in Korea and I have to be up in the morning to teach
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 09:33 ave1: asciilifeform,
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862451, I've been reading through the logs and could find no reference of how you did this. Could this be monitored with an FPGA? (there seem to be MAC level FPGA based routers).
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 10:15 mircea_popescu: specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 20:07 phf: asciilifeform: so the posix solution is to call open with O_CREAT | O_EXCL, which will attempt to create but will signal EEXIST if the file already exists. curiously default behavior O_CREAT will simply clobber
billymg: trinque: just a heads up, i'll be away from my machine for the next few days but should be able to have stuff put together by friday or early saturday, and will share
mircea_popescu: eulora is so much fucking nicer when you wake up to a working foxybot!
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 03:55 mircea_popescu: the leaves downstream from EACH n1 needn't be identical, nor needn't be different. in effect, the tree now has TWO groups of maintainers : those who maintain type 2 tree, for embeds, will not === those who maintain type 1 tree, for general use.
mircea_popescu: so -- looking back to the crc32 situation, suppose that for whatever reason the consensus wasn't "yeah, should definitely have both" but "division is stupid, only tables are needed". at that juncture, ave1 could have made an alternate patch to the crc32-lookup consisting of merely a changed manifest, saying "Hey, for so and so reasons I think this should be a crc32-division, I intend to do it later."
mircea_popescu: then later, when he had the time for it, or when others saw the wisdom of the point after his death, or whenever, that stub could've been replaced with the proper item.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 10:26 ave1: btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 11:30 slycordinator: I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 11:37 slycordinator: So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
mircea_popescu: anyway, whole point being that we have elaborate research-driving/agreement-building & history-preservation tools.
mircea_popescu: not that anyone has to use them for any purpose. but -- they do indeed exist.
mircea_popescu: i suppose they do create some obligation, as per ye olde "if you can -- you must", in the sense that much like girl can't imagien why she'd mate with dood who doesn't use soap, i can't imagine why i'd talk to dood who "has ideas" or w/e they call being filthy outside the walls.
mircea_popescu: soon thereafter returned, very puzzled -- why doesn't $x ever wash ?!"
mircea_popescu: and this started after eg mpoepr's ~exhausting the live ponds.
mircea_popescu: because yes, there very much is such a thing as a bar for civilisation, or at the very least for conversation. ~could~ talk to anyone, much like ~could~ very much shit outdoors ; but one strangely enough discovers in a short time that... doesn't really want to.
mircea_popescu: the puzzler of all time for the average fetlife-grazed chickie, too. "wait... you mean to tell me ~you~ don't really care to talk ~to me~ ?!@?!?! but pantsuited hilarity gave us our rights!!!" sorta "this development goes neatly against everything i've been told to believe."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to go back to that thread : i suppose the "portability" discussion is deeply broken in empire (and no, linus, rms and friends aren't "a republic of their own", they're leningrad school and naught else). consider how
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862894 drives the dilemma : "if the trouble of maintaining a tree is not justified, why do you think the iron discussed is worth having ? if you think the iron disc
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 16:44 asciilifeform: supposing anybody actually needed this.
mircea_popescu: ussed is worth having, why do you think maintaining the respective branch is too much work ?"
mircea_popescu: ie, before us, "portability" was an abstract nothing, single-datapoint debalanced nonsense, like "the pursuit of happiness" or "safety first" or "no means no" or whatever other fucktarded pantsuit nonsense.
mircea_popescu: after us, it is a stable, sustainable and sane item, two data points : "to get x you burn y, make a call"
mircea_popescu: how the fuck they managed to live before, uncomputable-cost-portability herp derp is anyone's guess.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 00:25 phf: but you would never know, because in sbcl it generally does the right thing
mircea_popescu: (and the experienced historians among the "anyone" guessing will point to -- HIDDEN EXTERNALITY!!! as fucking always! they hijacked their conversation channels to repeat over and over AND OVER again "if you want it -- write it", ie, "the cost of portability, as the backflow of using stupid hardware, is hidden under the rug tee heee")
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:22 mircea_popescu: MEANWHILE, however, they have 100% unaccounted for the time externality. so basically it's a contest consisting of a guy without legs going about finding fault with people's fingers. because he's decided "legs don't count", and so as he has much better hands than the rest of those losers he should be captain of the football team.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought trinque was doing that exact thing for the linux machine.
mircea_popescu: it's kinda funny how the predictable result of an hour's logs is that... "hey guise... there's even MOAR space at the trough than we thought! you have engineermanyears to put to some use ? ohohoh here, here, uses, pick, choose!"
BingoBoingo: In other punchlines, titless canadian man wins a women's cycling championship
mircea_popescu: "ruderalis plants reservoir " << you're missing a verb.
mircea_popescu: bwahaha. good thing hilary clinton gave them their rights!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There have been a number of times in Uruguay where I walked through what could have been "opium den" scenes, except without anyone being in danger of acute respiratory cessation
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
☟︎ BingoBoingo has not taken to close measurements of vital signs
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> lmao the drug on wars. ok, i was entertain't. << Intentional
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is there some subtext of "hey, anyone wanna finance my becoming a grower" in there ?
mircea_popescu: "As they succeeded, the cool is gone" << so fucking true!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not at present. I am too stretched for time at the moment. It is more of a dump information of of my head to consult it later without keeping it in an active workspace portion of the head piece.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 17:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
mircea_popescu: btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862927 ; and similarly ANYTHING ELSE. the bar strictly is "more than three people get together who aren't mentally subnormal". that's it!)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No one smokes leaf, of flower
BingoBoingo: And not concentrated post modern tributes to hashish. It is of hashish
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the interplay of random hybridation ( BingoBoingo does a good job of describing what open source weed did) and personal genetics. this is what happens.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. but i mentioned because a) wouldn't have believed the story and b) witnessed with own eyes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Because they are chasing the euphoric effects their body's tendancy to homeostasis has robbed them of
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I am going off one fellow's account of why he went full bore on some "Bubba Kush" his hookup had duly warned him about
mircea_popescu: truth be told, "weak enzyme -- to what ?" people who smoked in college pre 2000ish and then kinda stopped aren'\t ready for what has become of the pot scene.
mircea_popescu: back then, pot used to be like porn. nowadays -- also is like porn. compare and contrast.
mircea_popescu: in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is very much not so, if you've ever seen any of the pill kiddies pill.
BingoBoingo: Story time: A kid came to Uruguay from a non-gringo white anglophone country. Regular smoker, he only intended a couple weeks in Uruguay before moving on to explore the rest of the continent. He asked me where to find weed and I told his this is Uruguay, weed will find him when he stops looking for it. 4 days into Uruguay he found pot. Five months later, after having spent nearly 3 months at the same hostel, one and a half with some
BingoBoingo: girl in Argentina, and a couple more weeks back at the hostel...
BingoBoingo: Kid goes home because he had a moment of clarity
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most kids go by color as the only indication. the more advanced also look for lettering.
BingoBoingo: Nah, he's going to get his driver's license and maybe even a job
BingoBoingo: Whereas the pot kiddies very much imagine they are wine snobs
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know. << The classic 'pot' pot is still readily available in Uruguay. Pressed, consistent, shelf stable Product of Paraguay is available from most fellows in vests helping people parallel park
BingoBoingo: And it's production appears to largely be a subsistence farming thing rather than mega-cartel deal
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine how it'd be consistent then, but anyways.
mircea_popescu: "In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "Consumption of marijuana promotes the development and belief in false memories. The social engineering potential for this is tremendous, which is likely why Pantsuit pushes normalizing marijuana consumption. The effect on activism in the previous point is likely why Pantsuit is cautious in actually legalizing cannabis." << check it out, #metoo was really of and by and for and about potheads ?!
BingoBoingo: Hey, down here I am watching the Fat Forehead party realize it doesn't have a activist base anymore in real time.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-11 12:11 mircea_popescu: hilary should really be a very informative example for all teenaged girls today : NOTHING slavery inflicts upon you is quite as bad as what "being a successful" mainstream derp does to you.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 17:21 mircea_popescu: as i say -- the young hussies already are looking for slavery and abjection, in contrast to their stupid mulas and stramulas. from rotherham to anytown, usa, the 15 yo is saying "please, beat, rape and light me on fire -- anything whatsoever but having to talk with my kinmorons."
BingoBoingo:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862995 << And to be clear on this point I am not talking about a lack of artistically inspired one time smoke instruments. I mean they produce joints that are poorly packed, with loose paper, that need substantial babying because they fail to burn consistently (Even when they cheat by bulking up the payload with tobacco to ease rolling)..
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 17:54 mircea_popescu: "In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
BingoBoingo: Well, for the most part pot is a marginal thing mostly used by marginal people
BingoBoingo: Can't pin all of the swells in the world on it
BingoBoingo: But yes, if Trump legalizes weed at the federal level which he appears to be moving towards... it will be for very good reason.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gulag inmates have to be cool in some way, however trivial to end up in gulag. Legal pot smokers face no such barrier to entry.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform uber is rather "we'll produce an alt-frontend dating site for orclands, where the morons will pay usg to use it". very much mercantilism desperation on usg.blue part.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's not just USG. All fiat wanna be sovereigns are inclined to capturing tax from undocumented traditional activities.
mircea_popescu: nah, whole fuckling point is that cab services work well in orclands, and the orcs pay tax already.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 23:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
mircea_popescu: also -- SOMEHOW -- uber doesn't have bingoboingo's problem. for THEM it is a-ok to terrorist money all over the world.
mircea_popescu: ie, usg undergoing exact same process argentina was, back when old whore still thought she can be president whether i say ok or not.
mircea_popescu: yuou hand the man at the wheel some bills and move on. how else ?
mircea_popescu: here, they just take 20% of their revenue and send it to washington so washington can pretend like it's a place.
mircea_popescu: they don't use the stickers here, people beat them up.
mircea_popescu: this idea that pantsuitism is well regarded abroad is a very narrowly in-group wank.
mircea_popescu: so no, nobody in right mind would ~advertise~ they're faggots.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as far as i know, item exists 100% as orcistan theft, because the local morons will pay the usg corp a chunk of their local income.
mircea_popescu: i don't know it has any other revenue than these orc donations.
mircea_popescu: i dunno it ever had any utility or any userbase in us. 100% "high5" item, "big in pakistan!" sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: and in the orclands, its utility is 100% as a dating site, "hey girly [working for "corporation" aka call center, nursing batshit insane delusions as to how you're a sorta hilary and anyone gives a shit about what yo ufished out of your belly button] : would you rather walk, or would you rather save and occasionally ask for a hot young boy who owns his own car take a half hour look at you ?
mircea_popescu: so they get stuck in traffic, and she tries on her best 12yo moves, with the eyelids and shit, and figures out how to tell him later she's got a 2yo in tow, notwithstanding she's barely 20something.
mircea_popescu: this rarely works, but the fact that it works at all...
mircea_popescu: kinda how xtianity was built, too. mary magdalene bigger deal than the other mary whore.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform item entirely exists to get idiots to undertake private loans to finance corp. which orc morons ALOS do.
mircea_popescu: so uber can pretend it has a power and influence other people are paying for.
mircea_popescu: it'll be the lulz of all time, once THIS groupon goes the way of the other, and all these tards are left paying the loans. will paraguay invade us to extract reparatios for its scaqmmed citizenry ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> re structure -- they're rolling out ipnoje-style cars, that brick if they dun get keepalive from server << These have been a thing in the US for a while with the pay by week specialist dealer/lenders
BingoBoingo: In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Found out it is a thing just now through an invitation to be fed breakfast at an event discussing the thing.
lobbesbot: bvt: Sent 17 hours and 27 minutes ago: <phf> ^^
bvt: should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 01:42 phf: bvt: your patch has "Binary files..." at the very end of it. i assume it wasn't made with vdiff
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 01:53 phf: oh i guess i see why that would be tricky, because of the specialization. i don't know enough ada yet to know how to fix that... perhaps just renaming it to Temporary_File is sufficient
bvt: re naming: i agree that it clashes with Ada naming convention. will rename to Temporary_File.
BingoBoingo: bvt: I think when he made that comment he confused you with the other promising newcomer
bvt: that's what I think as well
bvt: btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 03:01 mircea_popescu: bvt "Ada exposes no functions that have 'exclusive open' semantics, so I imported C
bvt: ave1, can you expand on getting rid of string allocations? I see a way to get rid of it for Mode, but not for the Path argument. i can move its c-string from heap to stack, but that would be it. anyhow, i will revise this aspect.
☟︎ bvt: the System/GNAT.OS_Lib find is interesting, i have missed it.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 18:44 BingoBoingo: In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Looking superficially at the law for it, it seems like a way to attract crowdfund stuff
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 19:10 bvt: should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
bvt: yes, these lockfiles are just a big mess.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 19:11 bvt: btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
mircea_popescu: bvt you asking for a primer on the longstanding hatred of c strings here, or found on own ?
bvt: i have my own painful experience with them
bvt: so no primer is necessary
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863091 << at present i believe the ~entire file model~ in unix might have been subtly broken since the very beginning, and that breakage has in turn informed the way people think about the fs/os interface so as to not notice it. because it's as you see, a widening breach, what started with atomic creation moved on to permissions, and in general... in a word, it's not directly evident unix ha
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 19:15 asciilifeform: bvt: i find it mind-boggling that there is not a standard , portable , machine-wide locking mechanism. but apparently this is so.
mircea_popescu: s a file system AT ALL, and the "all things are files" is just a thin wraper on a turd sausage made out of "we have no data model beyond ram and our disk doesn't actually work".
☟︎ bvt: it seems that 'c strings' in ada are still controlled by ada mechanisms, i.e. they are ada strings (with bounds checking), just with null byte in the end
mircea_popescu: most terrifying part being that i can readily review history to the point where this would very much have been exactly the implicit assumption, because fuck tape.
mircea_popescu: so the situation may actually be that no computer system currently deployed actually has a file system.
mircea_popescu: or rather, the item all the locals point to when asked about bar/club/disco/where the fuck do you take the whores ?!?!?
mircea_popescu: just because they all point to the coconut shop dun mean coconut shop is either a club or a place you'd take the whores.
a111: Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform previous run into this was with the "what's a file's name" ambiguity i axed into "fully specified paths inclued". but that wasn't the problem, that was a random symptom of the fact nobody ever thought about files in unix.
mircea_popescu: right. but this wasn't because "nobody thought of file names like, ever". it was fucking because "nobody CAN think of file names, because there's a deeper issue"
mircea_popescu: and the deeper issue might be that there is in fact no os, just a maldesigned, half-impelemented, thoroughly buggy process emulator shoehorned into describing a disk.
mircea_popescu: ie, not "all things are files", but "the only way you can access the disk is through this mangled malloc"
mircea_popescu: this all leaves us stranged with such questions as "what is a file" and "what should a filesystem evben be".
BingoBoingo: To update the binder hole count, Uruguay is a two hole binder country
Mocky: uber in Qatar is cash, much to my surprise. I popped a sim into my second phone, made an uber acct, verifed with a text message, no CC, no identity verification. i was surprised
Mocky: they also have uber-knockoffs, one named careem
Mocky: place is crawling with uber drives, never more than 3 minutes away no matter where you go, almost all driving a Kia
BingoBoingo: This Uber thing kind of sounds like "VoyEnTaxi"