log
286 entries in 0.49s
asciilifeform: and it aint even necessary to saw open a bolix to see why this was. they didn't have to have a did_machine_do_what_i_said(...) after ~erry line.
asciilifeform: consider the not-uninteresting fact, that on 370,000-transistor bolix, ada was 50kloc ; while on 3bil+-transistor x86, ada (gnat cum gcc cum deps) is , what, 1mil+ ? and their kernel was iirc ~50kloc, while ours...
asciilifeform: ( ditto gnat. the troo adatron would be a ~50kloc bolix-style ada on sane iron support, rather than crusty old gnat )
asciilifeform: ( y'know, ~that~ hat, the 'bolix' hat, from old mircea_popescu piece , 'last loom broke' )
asciilifeform: ^ verily it's quite like asciilifeform's 'i'ma make a bolix', in ways
asciilifeform: re those rivets : earlier this yr i tried to find where else used; turns out , hp ( who fabbed the bolix ) in late '80s also used on certain of their 'pa-risc' items, e.g. http://www.cpushack.com/gallery-1/hp/hp1fe4-0010-pa7300lc-b/
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 05:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:04 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_ivory_pinside.jpg
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:26 asciilifeform: perma-mirrored at http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_2.jpg , ty
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg ( via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876538 ) for comparison. ☝︎
asciilifeform: in the bolix board, i'ma pull the ics before it goes into the oven, they're all socketed, so sorta academic.
mircea_popescu: yes it will take more time / cost reagents. nevertheless, "here's my micron-by-micron decap of bolix."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, rms's bolix
asciilifeform: ( 1 nitpick -- no bolix xrays yet, only target practice ; still waitin' for crate of largeformat film to show up )
asciilifeform: i find it hard to picture how a sane cpu, where optimizing compiler is 10k loc and 'fits in head', could have no market. but then again the bolix people proved that it ~is~ possible to go broke with one.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 23:49 asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary )
asciilifeform: or the deathbed bolix people, who did ~99% of the job but sank on the titanic of the dec alpha, the only arch they managed to massage into compliance before ran out of dough
asciilifeform: it remains a serious wtf to me : think, bolix had ecc.
asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary )
asciilifeform: 2) bolix's
asciilifeform: ( this is where asciilifeform cannot resist to 'on bolix, you simply ask the box what all symbols are, and can get source for whichever you point at' etc )
mircea_popescu: coincidentally : is anyone from the adacore/gnat/gnarl/whatever days still breathing even ? or 100% bolix situation, "documents at warehouse, i am machinist in charge" ?
asciilifeform: and it's exactly what asciilifeform intends to do to e.g. the bolix.
mircea_popescu: right. moreover, bolix you know when you succeeded.
asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )
mircea_popescu: and so in this sense, dos "source" is a lot like "bolix source" -- would consist of 99.9999% cat scans by mass.
asciilifeform: much of the complexity in the bolix system is, in light of modern tech, unnecessary, it was muchly constrained by the limitations of the period tech
a111: 256 results for "bolix", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bolix
asciilifeform: !#s bolix
asciilifeform: trinque: possibly at some pt i'ma start to pillage the bolix adatron, for this .
asciilifeform: originally intended just for the bolix, but nao thinking it'd make for a decent added molestation search for certain items.
asciilifeform: for extra mindfuck : the primary xtal in the bolix ( valpey-fisher vf155 ) is a <1ppm txco.
asciilifeform: phf: on other front entirely, you may find interesting, asciilifeform built an xray machine, some time in coming weeks when i get coupla otherwise free hrs, will take pics of the bolix..
asciilifeform: fwiw a standard commercial cesium clock sells 2ndhand for about 2/3 of what bolix did..
mircea_popescu: and the problem of "wut use then" is still open, in which context i perceive eg the bolix wank.
asciilifeform: bvt: possibly the bolix machines also ( they did it in vertical microcode, iirc, tho, and in nonconstant time unsurprisingly )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:31 mircea_popescu: phf i expect the accumulated value of the whole pile of "secrets" is about 0. and i further expect the entire value of the whole bolix stack neatly approximates the value of my stock of pogos.
asciilifeform: interestingly from the light of the 'tiger is a bolix' narrative, it was a quite close match despite the overengineer.
asciilifeform: i take a kind of perverse entomological interest in sad rsatrons. ( e.g.: bolix, interestingly, had a -- nonconstant time, of course -- bignum stack, but at least it was reasonably compact.. )
asciilifeform: 1 of the 9000 sane things bolix tried, valiantly , to do, within the limitations of the period irons.
asciilifeform: ( not even speaking of bolix or other 'holy war' fodders )
asciilifeform: research folx had research-grade irons , and ~separate ecosystem. ( pdp, then suns, hp, sgi, alpha, even bolix somewhere close to money printers, etc. but that 'atlantis' sank without a trace )
asciilifeform: but when, e.g. asciilifeform bought bolix, ~200 orcbux of its cost came back.
asciilifeform: hopefully he comes back soonish ( i'ma not even pester him re bolix, bolix is asciilifeform's personal war, learned not to expect help from anyone, and currently in refrigerator, i dun expect to spend much time on it while ffa undone )
asciilifeform: https://archive.vn/Ob6ti << ru army issues yet-others. whole subj shrouded in bolix-esque aura of seekrederpery, for decades.
asciilifeform: i ask because i have a 9GB disk image from that bolix 'macivory' ( recorded using the 'alpha' from earlier thrd ) but am reluctant to simply put on dulap, soaking up bw for errybody
a111: Logged on 2019-01-02 15:31 asciilifeform: mats: i haven't built anyffing useful from ice40 with own hands yet. but, interestingly, when bought a 'scsi2sd' device for replacing disk in bolix box, found that author in fact used ice40 for the job
asciilifeform trimmed iron stash down to 2 'alphas', 1 runs barbaric 'tru64' (for that bolix emulator), 1 nao set up for 'ffa on arch that aint x64 or arm' tests laters
asciilifeform: mats: i haven't built anyffing useful from ice40 with own hands yet. but, interestingly, when bought a 'scsi2sd' device for replacing disk in bolix box, found that author in fact used ice40 for the job
asciilifeform: ( which reminds me, i still have a bolix post queued on conveyor )
asciilifeform: bolix is a sort of rommel's afrika front to this.
mircea_popescu: imo putting an end to "software development" much greater achievement for human race than "decrypting bolix"
a111: Logged on 2018-12-25 23:02 asciilifeform: i'ma share a pair of example inputs: http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_a_super.jpg http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_b_super.jpg (warning: 300MB! each!) .
asciilifeform: ( and , for completeness, a second, http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_top_a_super.jpg , http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_top_b_super.jpg , whynot . again ~300MB ea.! )
asciilifeform: i'ma share a pair of example inputs: http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_a_super.jpg http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_b_super.jpg (warning: 300MB! each!) .
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_chinesium_macro_test_2.jpg << ditto.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_chinesium_macro_test.jpg << 2nd peek from bolix torture room; chinesium macrolens testfire
asciilifeform: in other oddities and 'where on the net is this discussed? nowhere?', http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_lamp_peek.jpg << old-fashioned 2layer pcbs are interestingly transparent to visible light. (obv. whole thing, aint, but give surprising amt of info otherwise not accessible )
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way left to go, to these ~irrelevant~ old men with their imaginarily valuable bolix stack : they're cordially invited to withdraw into eternal slumber, like fucking moses. in three to five thousand years some virgin in rural bumfuck somewhere can quote to us "what the truth REALLY WAS 'according to the democratic party'".
asciilifeform: intel did 'even better', by rolling the field back to ~before time of babbage~, who, recall, managed to eat ~20% of brit empire budget simply on promise of baking ~log table~ without eggogs ( and , arguably in a kind of 19th c. bolix affair, succeeded but overran cost to death )
mircea_popescu: this is no proof. but it does inform what is, for all of us, a reasonable suspicion. you think you have reason to suspect bolix is more notable than atari.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun demand that the deaf understand, somehow, music. observe that mircea_popescu dun care for bolix, and i equally duncare for bondage&discipline, yet we still find what to constructively say to one another on occasion.
mircea_popescu: today, "i'm talking to this guy, who is not smart enough to make a key upon reading the logs, but is smart enough to have interesting things ". traditionally-bolix, "these six morons that weren't apt to survive nevertheless made important tech". generally throughout, "i dunno how to resolve the tension between stupid and horny", from http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881534 to http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-26#770352 and 9k ☝︎☝︎
phf: ignoring for a moment the general conclusion in multiple threads that bolix archeology is essentially a pointless hobby
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 04:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is free to be as 'unpersuaded' as he wants. fact: his machine -- can overrun an array; bolix -- could not; his box -- crashes, cannot be examined or uncrashed (yes) -- bolix -- could; and various other aspects, well covered in teh logz.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 19:56 asciilifeform: apeloyee: but on the other hand any attempt to build a sane arch, without fully grasping the bolix stack, from ic to the compiler, is lunacy.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:10 asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, from the other side, "fiat bolix, pereat mundus, ruat caelum" ? "i am ~so dedicated~ to reconstructing this 80s atari, i am willing to spend however long living with and among fucktarded orc populations, at the risk of my brain rotting like boas'" ? did you actually think this through and that's how it came out ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 21:00 asciilifeform: and especially , deliberately unfriendly to whoever profits from the seekrederpery. in fact, i will know when my reversing has succeeded when a bolix collector somewhere at last eats his pistol because his $100k stash of irons is now worth == 8bit nintendo.
phf: actually i'm not sure i said it in the logs, so my bad. i want a fully operational bolix fpga, or in the future other type of replica, complete with genera sources and other such bells and whistles
phf: yes, my whole goal is to have a bunch of useless bolix junk, that i can mallory on top till i die.
phf: asciilifeform: there was already _one_ conversation, i made my _conclusions_. your adventage is that you can basically just rant in the open, make insulting fucking statements in "general direction" of those bolix whisperers. where's i lose by having this in public record. i told you as much _at the very beginning_. but you clearly shit on my efforts, i mean you have been saying as much in public for a year, so you don't lose anything
phf: look i told you about the stuff basically as soon as i came back _from a photoshoot_, gigs of photos, need to be sorted through. i communicated as much. the whisperer stuff started way before i had a chance to do anything about it. i mean what the fuck. it's like "i'm the greatest bolix liberator, and everyone else working towards it is an obscurantist and a cunt, unless they blog their shit right now". how am i not supposed to take
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 20:04 asciilifeform: nao, if phf thinks that asciilifeform cracking the case ~at all~ will 'unmask' phf's informant, this is a problem. chiefly for phf's informant, because i ~will~ rape bolix, whether anyone helps or not
asciilifeform: i dun expect to make any substantial movements on bolix front till march, at earliest .
asciilifeform: and especially , deliberately unfriendly to whoever profits from the seekrederpery. in fact, i will know when my reversing has succeeded when a bolix collector somewhere at last eats his pistol because his $100k stash of irons is now worth == 8bit nintendo.
asciilifeform suspects that if this weren't the case, i'd be posting from a 32GB bolix already
phf: there's no "docs", it's not some kind of mother lode of all things bolix. fwiw i went into as excited and with the same expectations you're imagining right now. there was a set of printed papers that primarily existed in pre-ivory days. they are mostly related to e.g. mechanical layout of the boards (the bulk of stuff was e.g. machining parameters of motherboards and cases, something i didn't even touch)
phf: asciilifeform: i actually remember that one, but you'll have to trust me that my assumption on reading this was that you had debugging scaffolding in order to observe its operation, because reading layers of bolix<-alpha<-x86 code is not particularly enlightening. you've since acquired the source and clearly opted for electron microscope route.
asciilifeform: phf: thus far i cannot comment on your methods, given that they do not apparently include publishing anyffing bolix-related openly.
phf: asciilifeform: there's this general position that what you're doing, you're doing to get yoursefl a running bolix clone, where's i'm just fucking around, which is bullshit. i'm doing the same thing, towards the same goals. it's not presently clear who's more successful. you basically want me to unilaterally fuck up my entire operation, because ~last week~ you bought a macivory.
asciilifeform: nao, if phf thinks that asciilifeform cracking the case ~at all~ will 'unmask' phf's informant, this is a problem. chiefly for phf's informant, because i ~will~ rape bolix, whether anyone helps or not
mircea_popescu: phf i expect the accumulated value of the whole pile of "secrets" is about 0. and i further expect the entire value of the whole bolix stack neatly approximates the value of my stock of pogos.
asciilifeform: re 'carnality of non-emulated', dark seekrit re http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51 -- asciilifeform , turned out, did not actually like the classic bolix kbd/mouse. in particular it was made before arrow keys invented...
mircea_popescu: i suspect "we can fix your pals" would be mega business. if, of course, bolix prices weren't utter bs, and if, of course, anyone wanted them ~for an actual purpose~. neither of which...
asciilifeform: in other archaeologies, https://archive.is/vOHNY#selection-305.153-305.267 suggests that stock bolix PALs are readable.
asciilifeform: while on subj of bolix : no reply so far to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881357 , it loox like they will have to be reversed the hard,long,painful way ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: puzzlers like those, make e.g. bolix look trivial ( consider, bolix physically exists and is sitting in asciilifeform's tortureroom , whereas beria et al's docs were afaik carefully burned )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 23:03 asciilifeform: usg used a fleet of bolix boxen for gulf war I logistics, and fuck knows what else, so in some dusty beetleman's desk it is 'coloured' as 'strategic', and so it gets passed from mallery to mallery.
asciilifeform: usg used a fleet of bolix boxen for gulf war I logistics, and fuck knows what else, so in some dusty beetleman's desk it is 'coloured' as 'strategic', and so it gets passed from mallery to mallery.
asciilifeform: my current model is that 'hitler' put him in charge of the bottled remains of bolix for the elementary http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-10#1158785 reason. ☝︎
asciilifeform: and before anyone asks, no i have nfi what bolix (or the ravages of time...) did to that solder mask to make the tracks look like dash
asciilifeform: phf: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_peek_back.jpg , goes with the earlier
asciilifeform: phf: i fear that it'll take an entire weekend to go through the pics ( plux i wanna redo whole thing with a tripod and macro lens, and the latter i gotta find ) , but to whet appetite, have a http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_peek.jpg
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881525 << dun think that asciilifeform's loaded; he had small bit of dough specifically set aside for 'if bolix appears!' ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( apparently it isn't merely plug an' fughet, gotta config it to pretend to be crapple disk, and then will need coupla bolix partitions also.. )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-16 04:44 asciilifeform: ( phunphakt to tie this into prev thread -- seems as if the bolix 3d engine, 1 of the 1st to be sold as such, still exists as commercial product, owned by some jp firm. naturally cppized and renamed. )
asciilifeform: ( phunphakt to tie this into prev thread -- seems as if the bolix 3d engine, 1 of the 1st to be sold as such, still exists as commercial product, owned by some jp firm. naturally cppized and renamed. )
asciilifeform: the 1st, lol, port of 'zork' to bolix...