log
322 entries in 0.477s
asciilifeform: or for that matter, the bolix thread.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 23:03 asciilifeform: usg used a fleet of bolix boxen for gulf war I logistics, and fuck knows what else, so in some dusty beetleman's desk it is 'coloured' as 'strategic', and so it gets passed from mallery to mallery.
asciilifeform: there's a grain of truth at least in that the bolix docs are held much tighter than, e.g., nsa's malware srcs. quite likely a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881634 dynamic is in play, to this day. ☝︎
amberglint: it was apparently designed in the west coast part of bolix, which is the graphics division afaik
amberglint: asciilifeform: I've stumbled upon a video recording of the lecture on the Ivory given by a bolix engineer in 1987, apparently uploaded by a bolix 'graphics division' alumnus just two weeks ago, thought I should share it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e39LnDVBl4c
a111: Logged on 2019-04-30 15:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910262 << if mircea_popescu invented how to turn asciilifeform's bolix dig into a snsa-able product, i'm all ears
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910262 << if mircea_popescu invented how to turn asciilifeform's bolix dig into a snsa-able product, i'm all ears ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: serious $mil+ sem, even, not '80s museum piece. could just as easily photo e.g. cr50 as bolix.
asciilifeform: bvt: as for c, i described in the prev. mp thread re the subj, it can certainly ~exist~ as a zoological specimen on sane iron, as it did on bolix. sorta how you can put cobol on yer box nao if you feel like it.,
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
asciilifeform: ( iirc -- e.g. howard shrobe, 1 of the orig bolix people, went off into medicine. others -- elsewhere )
asciilifeform: that's how (as described upthread) bolix settled the matter, in '83.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 14:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't win you 'speed'.'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed ☝︎☝︎☟︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: alright, well, month's not bad -- by the time you're done with ffa you can start a mega-bolix series.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-01 14:08 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform nao has what appears to be full pinout, timing, bus sequence, register, init magic, interrupts, etc. spec for bolix 'ivory' (won't, presently, say from where, unless source wants to be cited, plox to write in. )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't win you 'speed'.' ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: while on subj, 1 of the lost atlantian technologies i intend to saw out of bolix, is the sane graphics stack
asciilifeform: granted i ~could~ have heathens bake coupla hundred dies, for the cost of e.g. that bolix
asciilifeform: 1st time i booted up that 'ivory' bolix, it actually listed a coupla 'and here ecc triggered, corrected x to y' when revving up
mp_en_viaje: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bolix+ivory << top hit, of course... the one, the only, the true etcetera. last year's vintage, too.
a111: 20 results for "bolix ivory", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bolix%20ivory
asciilifeform: !#s bolix ivory
asciilifeform: iirc that's how the bolix people did it ( 2 fonts on the machine , 1 - typewriter, 1 - horiz. variable )
asciilifeform: there must've been some wagner/cyanide in the bolix fuhrerbunker when folded, presently can't think of why else none of the tech had any later life
asciilifeform: ( there are afaik 2 bolix patents -- 1 , ancient, on the orig. 'l' arch, of 1980-82; other -- on some peculiarity of the video console )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-20 00:45 mircea_popescu: this is no proof. but it does inform what is, for all of us, a reasonable suspicion. you think you have reason to suspect bolix is more notable than atari.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-28 01:21 asciilifeform: for extra mindfuck : the primary xtal in the bolix ( valpey-fisher vf155 ) is a <1ppm txco.
asciilifeform: the bolix people actually did Right Thing -- ran multiphase clock and in fact 'put in 4? get 2x faster ram'
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform nao has what appears to be full pinout, timing, bus sequence, register, init magic, interrupts, etc. spec for bolix 'ivory' (won't, presently, say from where, unless source wants to be cited, plox to write in. ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: optical , btw, will handily do the bolix job, when comes time, with oil-immersion objective.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904623 << on paper same in all of reich academitardia; but mit is specifically famous for enforcing the 'you dun own yer face' thing. it's how the bolix story came to be, for instance. ☝︎
asciilifeform: for that matter, that same bolix, and the 1989 crapple it rides on, 100% orig parts ( save for http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2943 which i stuffed in preemptively )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i expect ~99.99... of ye olde golden age opterons have been melted down by nao, just like bolix etc
asciilifeform: tho since we're on subj, i'ma add that the bolix, for what its faults, was entirely repairable, the only 'magic' part that aint off-shelf is the cpu
asciilifeform: and it aint even necessary to saw open a bolix to see why this was. they didn't have to have a did_machine_do_what_i_said(...) after ~erry line.
asciilifeform: consider the not-uninteresting fact, that on 370,000-transistor bolix, ada was 50kloc ; while on 3bil+-transistor x86, ada (gnat cum gcc cum deps) is , what, 1mil+ ? and their kernel was iirc ~50kloc, while ours...
asciilifeform: ( ditto gnat. the troo adatron would be a ~50kloc bolix-style ada on sane iron support, rather than crusty old gnat )
asciilifeform: ( y'know, ~that~ hat, the 'bolix' hat, from old mircea_popescu piece , 'last loom broke' )
asciilifeform: ^ verily it's quite like asciilifeform's 'i'ma make a bolix', in ways
asciilifeform: re those rivets : earlier this yr i tried to find where else used; turns out , hp ( who fabbed the bolix ) in late '80s also used on certain of their 'pa-risc' items, e.g. http://www.cpushack.com/gallery-1/hp/hp1fe4-0010-pa7300lc-b/
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 05:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ? ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:04 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_ivory_pinside.jpg
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:26 asciilifeform: perma-mirrored at http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_2.jpg , ty
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg ( via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876538 ) for comparison. ☝︎
asciilifeform: in the bolix board, i'ma pull the ics before it goes into the oven, they're all socketed, so sorta academic.
mircea_popescu: yes it will take more time / cost reagents. nevertheless, "here's my micron-by-micron decap of bolix."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, rms's bolix
asciilifeform: ( 1 nitpick -- no bolix xrays yet, only target practice ; still waitin' for crate of largeformat film to show up )
asciilifeform: i find it hard to picture how a sane cpu, where optimizing compiler is 10k loc and 'fits in head', could have no market. but then again the bolix people proved that it ~is~ possible to go broke with one.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 23:49 asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary )
asciilifeform: or the deathbed bolix people, who did ~99% of the job but sank on the titanic of the dec alpha, the only arch they managed to massage into compliance before ran out of dough
asciilifeform: it remains a serious wtf to me : think, bolix had ecc.
asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: 2) bolix's
asciilifeform: ( this is where asciilifeform cannot resist to 'on bolix, you simply ask the box what all symbols are, and can get source for whichever you point at' etc )
mircea_popescu: coincidentally : is anyone from the adacore/gnat/gnarl/whatever days still breathing even ? or 100% bolix situation, "documents at warehouse, i am machinist in charge" ?
asciilifeform: and it's exactly what asciilifeform intends to do to e.g. the bolix.
mircea_popescu: right. moreover, bolix you know when you succeeded.
asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )
mircea_popescu: and so in this sense, dos "source" is a lot like "bolix source" -- would consist of 99.9999% cat scans by mass.
asciilifeform: much of the complexity in the bolix system is, in light of modern tech, unnecessary, it was muchly constrained by the limitations of the period tech
a111: 256 results for "bolix", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bolix
asciilifeform: !#s bolix
asciilifeform: trinque: possibly at some pt i'ma start to pillage the bolix adatron, for this .
asciilifeform: originally intended just for the bolix, but nao thinking it'd make for a decent added molestation search for certain items.
asciilifeform: for extra mindfuck : the primary xtal in the bolix ( valpey-fisher vf155 ) is a <1ppm txco. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: on other front entirely, you may find interesting, asciilifeform built an xray machine, some time in coming weeks when i get coupla otherwise free hrs, will take pics of the bolix..
asciilifeform: fwiw a standard commercial cesium clock sells 2ndhand for about 2/3 of what bolix did..
mircea_popescu: and the problem of "wut use then" is still open, in which context i perceive eg the bolix wank.
asciilifeform: bvt: possibly the bolix machines also ( they did it in vertical microcode, iirc, tho, and in nonconstant time unsurprisingly )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:31 mircea_popescu: phf i expect the accumulated value of the whole pile of "secrets" is about 0. and i further expect the entire value of the whole bolix stack neatly approximates the value of my stock of pogos.
asciilifeform: interestingly from the light of the 'tiger is a bolix' narrative, it was a quite close match despite the overengineer.
asciilifeform: i take a kind of perverse entomological interest in sad rsatrons. ( e.g.: bolix, interestingly, had a -- nonconstant time, of course -- bignum stack, but at least it was reasonably compact.. )
asciilifeform: 1 of the 9000 sane things bolix tried, valiantly , to do, within the limitations of the period irons.
asciilifeform: ( not even speaking of bolix or other 'holy war' fodders )
asciilifeform: research folx had research-grade irons , and ~separate ecosystem. ( pdp, then suns, hp, sgi, alpha, even bolix somewhere close to money printers, etc. but that 'atlantis' sank without a trace )
asciilifeform: but when, e.g. asciilifeform bought bolix, ~200 orcbux of its cost came back.
asciilifeform: hopefully he comes back soonish ( i'ma not even pester him re bolix, bolix is asciilifeform's personal war, learned not to expect help from anyone, and currently in refrigerator, i dun expect to spend much time on it while ffa undone )
asciilifeform: https://archive.vn/Ob6ti << ru army issues yet-others. whole subj shrouded in bolix-esque aura of seekrederpery, for decades.
asciilifeform: i ask because i have a 9GB disk image from that bolix 'macivory' ( recorded using the 'alpha' from earlier thrd ) but am reluctant to simply put on dulap, soaking up bw for errybody
a111: Logged on 2019-01-02 15:31 asciilifeform: mats: i haven't built anyffing useful from ice40 with own hands yet. but, interestingly, when bought a 'scsi2sd' device for replacing disk in bolix box, found that author in fact used ice40 for the job
asciilifeform trimmed iron stash down to 2 'alphas', 1 runs barbaric 'tru64' (for that bolix emulator), 1 nao set up for 'ffa on arch that aint x64 or arm' tests laters
asciilifeform: mats: i haven't built anyffing useful from ice40 with own hands yet. but, interestingly, when bought a 'scsi2sd' device for replacing disk in bolix box, found that author in fact used ice40 for the job ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( which reminds me, i still have a bolix post queued on conveyor )
asciilifeform: bolix is a sort of rommel's afrika front to this.
mircea_popescu: imo putting an end to "software development" much greater achievement for human race than "decrypting bolix"
a111: Logged on 2018-12-25 23:02 asciilifeform: i'ma share a pair of example inputs: http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_a_super.jpg http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_b_super.jpg (warning: 300MB! each!) .
asciilifeform: ( and , for completeness, a second, http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_top_a_super.jpg , http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_top_b_super.jpg , whynot . again ~300MB ea.! )
asciilifeform: i'ma share a pair of example inputs: http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_a_super.jpg http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/pic/ivory_bottom_b_super.jpg (warning: 300MB! each!) . ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_chinesium_macro_test_2.jpg << ditto.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_chinesium_macro_test.jpg << 2nd peek from bolix torture room; chinesium macrolens testfire
asciilifeform: in other oddities and 'where on the net is this discussed? nowhere?', http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix/bolix_lamp_peek.jpg << old-fashioned 2layer pcbs are interestingly transparent to visible light. (obv. whole thing, aint, but give surprising amt of info otherwise not accessible )
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way left to go, to these ~irrelevant~ old men with their imaginarily valuable bolix stack : they're cordially invited to withdraw into eternal slumber, like fucking moses. in three to five thousand years some virgin in rural bumfuck somewhere can quote to us "what the truth REALLY WAS 'according to the democratic party'".
asciilifeform: intel did 'even better', by rolling the field back to ~before time of babbage~, who, recall, managed to eat ~20% of brit empire budget simply on promise of baking ~log table~ without eggogs ( and , arguably in a kind of 19th c. bolix affair, succeeded but overran cost to death )
mircea_popescu: this is no proof. but it does inform what is, for all of us, a reasonable suspicion. you think you have reason to suspect bolix is more notable than atari. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun demand that the deaf understand, somehow, music. observe that mircea_popescu dun care for bolix, and i equally duncare for bondage&discipline, yet we still find what to constructively say to one another on occasion.
mircea_popescu: today, "i'm talking to this guy, who is not smart enough to make a key upon reading the logs, but is smart enough to have interesting things ". traditionally-bolix, "these six morons that weren't apt to survive nevertheless made important tech". generally throughout, "i dunno how to resolve the tension between stupid and horny", from http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881534 to http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-26#770352 and 9k ☝︎☝︎