a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 14:32 asciilifeform: ( i dunno if al schwartz drank, but may as well )
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 16:36 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eh folx are still waiting for the vid from the pentagon parking lot cams on '9/11'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 23:20 mircea_popescu: so no "tranzitie" bullshit whatsoever : we're gonna have to cut all the spurious "industry" in name only, and cut all the fucktards who depend of it. and IT WAS DONE. and it was done as hard and fast as it ~could~ be done, witness the whole "miners invading capital" lulz during radu vasile.
mircea_popescu: what is now alro was one of the largest bauxite processing plants in europe. it cost ~over 8k ~~~1980~~~ usd to make a ton of aluminum there, and this at romania's EXTREMELY CHEAP hydro power rates.
mircea_popescu: you're thinking of the survivors. romania had ~9x more industry than you can summon to mind.
mircea_popescu: romania made train engines nobody would buy, and train cars that it could not use.
mircea_popescu: and the list goes on. romania made more phospo-nitrogen fertilizer than the us currently uses -- and it cost to make about twice what anyone'd pay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you want me to say ? "if atomic winter came then 1980s ro industry would be good" ? these if dun work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cost to make in "just sell the natgas at bekescsaba, rather than send to azomures"
mircea_popescu: ie, cubic meter of raw gas worth 10, cubic meter of gas processed by azomures, worth 6.
mircea_popescu: as the workers weren't willing (nor even able) to PAY to play, their very expensive playground got cancelled.
mircea_popescu: yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: apparently it's worth something for no more than ~decade.
mircea_popescu: gotta start doing ~something~ besides saying "fuckyou" to parents, is the fundamental lesson of all adolescence.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10. << One of the bigger cleaning product consortiums recently pulled production out of Uruguay. Easier to ship packaged retail ready from Mexico than water down and bottle in the labor environment here.
mircea_popescu: and the low skill, low productivity, worthless workforce ain't no fucking joke, either. you can say "ceausescu made wrong call, bet on oil, prices changed, he lost". the THING however is, ceausescu made bet in 66, plans called for plants to be done by 69, they were done by 74.
mircea_popescu: can just as well say "far seeing leader sabotaged by inept idiocy of workers"
mircea_popescu: had they actually been done on fucking time, they might've paid for themselves as the plans planned.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the world that is is the world that is. one must close all cycles in it, one can't simply go "oh, we'll keep going the insolvent '''right way'''."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we're not discussing that. this was peacetime economy, and the ~only product of its working was more per-capita laziness.
mircea_popescu: ye, the ONLY measurably increasing output of running the 1980s state economy was an increase of per-capita laziness, uselessness, and personal sense of entitlement of the "worker"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the point stands -- either close your cycles or die.
mircea_popescu: in fact, ro 1980s and us 2010s are so fucking similar it blows one's mind.
mircea_popescu: "what is the end product of Qx ?" "well... more of the workforce came late more often, missed more days, and feels should have larger salary and less work to do"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't. but it is also very easy to measure unclosed cycles : as they leak, the black market widens.
mircea_popescu: by the time they cut the pig, official rate was <20:1, black market was >100:1
mircea_popescu: yet you can't buy the dollar for 0.00005 btc anywhere. it's the same 0.00025 everywhere.
mircea_popescu: i don;'t mean the black market in goods. i mean the financial black market.
mircea_popescu: this is the true measure of unclosed cycles, you understand ? if your local currency is dropping, it is always dropping under the pressure of unclosed cycles
mircea_popescu: specifically meaning, resources you misallocated into making less-useful-than-possible end products.
mircea_popescu: that's precisely what it is, the measuring of the pressure of a miami nearby.
mircea_popescu: IF your autarky workls, THEREFORE there's no possibility of miami.
mircea_popescu: eg, our autarky works, nobody here sits wistfully dreaming of reading i dunno, #linux logs.
mircea_popescu: (and this is why closed borders is a very fucktarded policy -- you obviously WANT to let the idiots out. the only problem commies encountered was that if they opened the borders, the idiots'd have ~stayed~. which is already indicative of the breakage.)
mircea_popescu: so no, while in theory appealing, this theoretical autarky is not at all how things worked in the practice we're discussing. they had unclosed cycles galore, and there had to be a solution, AND they were in no measure to produce the solution.
mircea_popescu: there's a ~reason~ miami "pressures" latin ameritards, but period "london" did not in the slightest impress 1880s chinese.
mircea_popescu: china was net silver importer by the megatonne, for this exact reason, "what fucking miami, keks"
mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in retrospect, they weren't even lying, you should see them, 100% in the shit.
mircea_popescu: lest their cunts fly off or who knows what's going on in the noggin.
mircea_popescu: they weren't lying, they wanted the shit. what for, who knows, but there it is.
mircea_popescu: only thing i see was literally, they were afraid their cunts will fly off.
mircea_popescu: there's this "stealing nose" kiddy interaction trope from the period, adults pretending to steal kids' noses.
mircea_popescu: well yes, if i did any shaft mining, i'd buy some pairs of jeans.
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's some kind of psychological comfort somewhere. the same kind of femherd cowsies keep pestering my slaves about how "they gotta get jeans" as pester them about "omg your purse is open"
mircea_popescu: i literally believe they feel their cuntal purse is open or somesuch
mircea_popescu: (indistinctly, same applies to teh bois. in fact, they have it worse, lotta difficulty involved in securing a cunt you know is there but can't even see)
mircea_popescu: but no, i dun own any jeans. actually, hit up the local specialist in gentleman items (run by this very nice old lady, whom, when she dies, that is IT for dressing in costa rica). two suits, four extra pairs of pants, four shirts, a tie, a dozen socks and a pair of pijamas. all natural fiber, look fetching on me too. took like a fucking hour, and a brick of cash, but honestly i can't think of a way i could have spent the hour
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do this weird thing where they poke (literally, with finger) girl walking by me to get her attention then "omg your purse is open!!!". fucking weird as all hell.
mircea_popescu: somehow, however, this isn't "acoso callejero". dudes poking them to "hey, my dick's here", that never happens. confusion reigns.
mircea_popescu: nah, old networks survive here. egyptian cotton still exists, peruvian cotton still exists, there's a lot going on in the real world, ie, outside us concentration camp.
mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i hope she gets to die with it ; honestly other than me the only other customers are pretentious middle aged women buying 20 bux worth of presents with credit cards and the occasional ranchero getting a funeral suit or w/e.
mircea_popescu: that's not even it. whole bunch of tards, "oh, this bottle of champagne is great, $5000". as a factual matter no bottle of fizzy is genuinely worth that much. not anything you'd drink, anyway. what';s worse, if i pour that and random bottom shelf stuff they couldn't tell them apart. half the time can't tell bicarb fizz apart.
mircea_popescu: ie, there's a whole lotta aspirational buying and scant else besides.
mircea_popescu: he dun want a bottle to enjoy with his private, personal, wholly owned whores. he want a bottle to drink by himself and feel JUST LIKE nigger in x movie.
mircea_popescu: so, they end up buying plastic pret a porter sacks for whatever they wanna spend, and me an' my remnant friend can discuss sartreria.
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is a great advantage to me (while the fuel lasts, i guess). i'm always the only one in the shop, everyone's always got all the time in the world, "we love to serve", the taylor doesn't even need to measure me because ~he remembers~.
mircea_popescu: because how wouldn't he even, not like he's beseiged by alternative measures.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno i wanna wear a tophat. imo i'm not quite pearshaped enough for it as of yet.
mircea_popescu: i never saw anyone else there, besides as i said, 40yo middle class wife buying a present or else a ranchero dood (looking just like maduro, most of the time in canadian workshirt and jeans) buying "occasion"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they are, they're well hidden. let alone i never ran into one -- wouldn't you expect they'd proposition one of my cunts at some point ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, not in a week, ok, not in a month, ok, YEARS ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i never heard of this. if it worked, i'd run it too. what, fuck my sister ?
mircea_popescu: human reproduction is precisely the ONE non closed-cycle. even "self-sufficient" rome invited the occasional sabine over for drinks
mircea_popescu: but judging from the sorry state of bars / strip clubs / nightlife in general, i do not believe so.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i still said hi to evident top ticket items in the street.
mircea_popescu: i don't dispute there's the occasional tico with some dough. but i'm pretty sure they're saving it up and hitting the disneyworlkd mcdonalds.
BingoBoingo: Well, how long did it take mircea_popescu to go from "Imma get citizenship here someday" to "Only coming back with spears" re: Argentina
BingoBoingo: So, how is orc supposed to investigate Miama when they have at most two weeks?
mircea_popescu: (and speaking of "luxury", romania's ex-minister woman that the hubbub was about recently, "Rumanas vivían entre lujos" lived in a pretty shitty apt in rohrmoser, which is a sort of... auburndale, i guess ?
BingoBoingo: I don't think you've seen the crap Latinos eat when left to own devices
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, the places where they have choices
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're trained from childhood to atrophy own sense.
mircea_popescu: "believe what you hear, not what you see", right ? gotta fit in.
mircea_popescu: bout same. there's no substantial difference, catholics.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 asciilifeform: asciilifeform had entirely same 'eyes melt' experience when went to ameri-foodstore for 1st coupla times. today i spend good money at shop that loox exactly like what well-stocked one in sovok did in 1985. and not in 'dazzling variety' where cornsyrupinerrything.
mircea_popescu: you know, over here they stuff themselves with "chicharron".
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> somehow, have working taste buds, or seem to << The Peruana is much better at composing flavors into food than I am, but... her sense of smell just might be weaker than mine
BingoBoingo: Here it's torta frita. I'd go for some pork rinds. Like in old country
mircea_popescu: in any case, the one thing contemporary tard is trained for, is to NOT make decisions and NOT decide investments.
mircea_popescu: recall that scammy fuckwit graham's piece about how "talking is too much trouble" ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 23:42 mircea_popescu: ault. this is what the mass-romanian is and does, nobody is needed to "do it to him", much like nobody's needed to drag shit into lelea saveta's cunt. she does it, by herself, every time she wipes.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in today's installment of "how to fuck over internet scholars" : take the chunk popper attributes to kant ("I do not wish to hide the fact that I can only look with repugnance . . upon the puffed-up pretentiousness of all these volumes filled with wisdom, such as are fashionable nowadays. For I am fully satisfied that . . the accepted methods must endlessly increase these follies and blunders, and that even the com
mircea_popescu: plete annihilation of all these fanciful achievements could not possibly be as harmful as this fictitious science with its accursed fertility.") and have them source teh original german.
mircea_popescu: whole internet fulla references to a purely imaginary object, that ironically enough discusses... ITSELF.
mircea_popescu: then they wonder why sokal had ~0 measurable impact. duh.
mircea_popescu: was it the prolegomene ? no such wonder there. was it then the kritik, ~only book anyone can even name anyway ? mnope. WHAT COULD IT BE!!!
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902641 -> "noi ne facem ca muncim, ei se fac ca ne platesc" (we pretend we work, they pretend they pay us); so I'd say it was more the case that there were a few actually working and all the rest being clever; just like now in a different socialism.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:00 mircea_popescu: yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:31 mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
diana_coman: ftr in my experience it's not only a lack of practical experience but literally, they have no real idea re what they are supposedly selling, it's all the same to them, what.
mircea_popescu: this "i could do work ~if i wanted to~" is the unconvincing bullshit spewing quite naturally out of any inept narcissist since before the invention of the word.
diana_coman: ah, it wasn't that they could do work, no; it was that they knew they did not it
mircea_popescu: in ACTUAL FACT, romanian worker of the 80s got ~120% the value of his labour, by an over-welfarist government, wrote himself hallucinated options to consider this "insufficient" to an entirely ridiculous standard, and proceeded from there with a web of lies.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, instead of saying "the party is ~exactly truthful~ in what we ~falsely~ call propaganda, and we are making here WAY the fuck more than we could anywhere else, and without it we'd be exactly like zaire", they came up with bs.
mircea_popescu: so no, it's not "ei se X, noi ne Y". it's very much the other way around : noi ne Z (=ne cacam pe noi), ei fac ce pot sa se prefaca ca de fapt nu.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, note that I worded it precisely in *that* order, starting with "noi ne" . I don't know what/who you are arguing there, lol.
mircea_popescu: well, not you, lol. just tryina put the implicit explicitly for the innocent reader.
mircea_popescu: the important part, to my eyes, is to underscore that the "being clever" was NOT, as the "clever" in question silently ie implicitly misrepresent, a case of "choice", ie, "seeing how little i get paid i react thusly". the "clever" in question was very much what such "clever" ever is : "seeing what a fucktard i am, this is what i could pretend is '''really''' going on to not have to confront it".
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 09:56 spyked: diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything"; which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told)
mircea_popescu: fuck, the exact process is visible both among a subset of trilema commenters during the romanian years and superset of other-romanian-bloggers, then as now.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I'm quite sure it's clearly visible in today's western socialism too.
diana_coman: not as if it's specific romanian this, sadly.
mircea_popescu: re the "cowboy stuff" : all the us "wild west" stuff is a cheap and quick daghuerotype after spanish traditions of the time. this is visible if one studies say the horse working (this is a term of art) as practiced in spanish-speaking lands comparatively to english-speaking lands. everything is visibly a model to scale, and to this day the cultural overwhelm of spanish lands in all fields related is overwhelming.
mircea_popescu: in ~this sense~ us cowboy started wearing ~a little~ denim as the west states textile industry developped. originally it was miner garb. then it was extended to make tent sheet for army. THEN it was taken by cowboy to replace the much more expensive LEATHER the spanish were wearing.
mircea_popescu: this said, the french (and somewhat italian, hence all their lolwesterns) 50s/60s "wild west" fixation did in fact produce an abstract (and not much related to any reality) euro-cowboy, sure.
mircea_popescu: aha. and french period mags for kids are fulla "indian-sympathy" pieces (the french had a very unique take to the gibbering nations among colonial powers, they wanted to make america a sorta africa, "continue traditions undisturbed")
mircea_popescu: who's to say it wouldn't have been better, tbh. note how the "equal to capitol" german colony they ended up ~is very much reverting~. they got the matriarchy back, they got the stupid-lazy-itsok back, hard to distinguish today's "american" from yesterday's cherokee.
mircea_popescu: the west states << obv i mean east states, penn, ny, mass & co
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
mircea_popescu: right, 256 bytes aka 1024 octets on 32 bit machines and 2048 octets in 64 bit machines.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:52 asciilifeform: !A :[Ho];
mircea_popescu: well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy: animal: "Obama"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: Please familiarize yourself with the site rules on acceptable content. Restoring a mod-deleted custom field may result in your nation's deletion."
mircea_popescu: imagine these fucktards! i can't call my imaginary nation's imaginary animal the same as that other imaginary nation's equally imaginary animal!
mircea_popescu: speakinbg of which, anyone remember the set of "anti-bitcoin" tards grouped around usg.pantsuit office over at "something awful" going about talking of "bit-coin" as fucking if that did something ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps time to start talking of copy-right and demo-cracy etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo my interest didn't survive the hour. turns out it's yet another by-morons for-morons thingee.
BingoBoingo: It gets my attention for about half an hour every few months.
BingoBoingo: The fallout from the decisions has degraded in sensibility over time.
BingoBoingo: In the limited time I do remember it exists, I simply try to drive up crime and weapon ownership per capita
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, since hydro was mentioned yest : one of the largest hydro development in europe is the "iron gates" complex, partnership between romania and serbia, taking advantage of danube.
mircea_popescu: the romanian side produces ~5.2 TWh per year. the serbian side, ~5.7 TWh.
mircea_popescu: whence the difference ? they're halves, aren't they ? here's the lulz : romania bought newer, nominally more efficient generating equipment.
mircea_popescu: it is down so much, overal productivity is nevertheless 10% lower.
mircea_popescu: (at the time this was completed, early 70s, it was pretty much the largest hydro plant in the world). hoover dam, for instance, had <2MW installed capacity, vs the >2MW here.
mircea_popescu: and this before we even discuss capacity factors (high drop like there necessarily has low capacity factors, low drop like here the opposite)
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 13:20 diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902744 -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* ; esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 15:28 mircea_popescu: well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy: animal: "Obama"
BingoBoingo: Well someone who wants a reich is easy to put on a USG.lolcow watchlist. Someone who identifies Obama as an animal risks getting sympathy from the folks employed reading USG watchlists.
BingoBoingo: Policeman White see fellow on Nazi watchlist "I've killed those fuckers in xBawks game", Policeman Brown sees fellow on Obama is an animal watchlist "I ought to buy the man a beer and compare notes"
mircea_popescu always answers comments (so will refrain from pointing this out on case by case basis) as well as sees new comments via feedbot rss (so there';s nothing gained by pointing one out to him)
mircea_popescu: in other obscura : meanwhile i located the clou of the issue. in april 1960, at cluj, gh gh dej stated the party recognizes the right of writers to express themselves "în limbajul epocii noastre" ("in the language of our times"). WHOLE fucking dispute is EXACTLY over whether the ro pantsuits get to the-dreamers or don't get to the-dreamers ; and protestations of unawareness and "vhs america" are suddewnly extrehehehehemely w
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking thing was whether they get to follow the other sheep down the precipice or have to sit in the rancho.
mircea_popescu: keks, empire still hard at work secreting imaginary effigies of the republic to "defeat" ?
a111: Logged on 2014-08-31 06:24 asciilifeform: i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 17:47 mircea_popescu: diana_coman ^ let me know if it satisfies.
mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.
☟︎ trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm curious whether you're aware of Julian Jaynes. I'm not in a position to assign credit for who first said self-aware consciousness might not come naturally to humans, absent learning it from a parent at a critical age.
trinque: whoever said it first, the hypothesis rings true, that consciousness is an arrangement of language in the skull which is by no means human birthright.
BingoBoingo: I remember being 3 or 4 in the grocery store produce section and being struck with the awareness that my awareness is stuck in my head alone. That I couldn't bounce my awareness from head to head. There were some very Bush I era fat people and I very much wanted to will them stop eating for a few months.