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hanbot: ok, so i'm encountering the strangest problem with v. here it is:
hanbot: 1. if i try to press the current head of mp-wp (ie, including the patches, either as reconstructed from our blogs or as maintained on btcbase), it dies with a hash mismatch
hanbot: (specifically : File: */mp-wp/wp-admin/custom-header.php Expected: 3e4322c7d8f1757f883a9f11abec332b8c952d7b050c801e4ba60e72853509f0603e0ea63b093dacf4ca158fe309043984900efa5ea0348c2d1cd9d0eb46388f Actual: 05f567bca8d936ec36e315dd8b667a8654fbcb256758165986810db3f5402d3a9fdf1d3d4bc00de626d627d7e997da9ee08e5261127a216199ce8ff661a4c600 )
hanbot: 2. the file itself is found on my very hard drive, untouched since i made this thing last year. a ~new~ genesis, which i just made, on the basis of those exact original files, displays the same exact problem.
hanbot: 3. the actual hash of the file, as computed now, matches the actual reported. the signed vpatch, as it exists, contains the expected as listed.
hanbot: 4. all other files in that bundle pass just fine.
hanbot: 5. i specifically checked, sieving the file through tr -dc '\0-\177' produces the exact same object unchanged, so i don't think it's utf shenanigans.
hanbot: 6. what's incomparably worse : | tr '\n' '\r' will transform the file as it correctly stands into a file that matches the "expected" hash.
hanbot: basically it looks like the one file got mangled (possibly via bad upload/download). can anyone else confirm whether either a) they can actually press the god damned thing or b) they have/have not the mangled file ?
hanbot: this is pretty much what v exists to prevent, but it seems wp managed to stick one in! billymg did you manage to actually press the genesis? how did you do it? diana_coman, you said you pressed it too? not ran into the issue? anyone else?
danielpbarron: i pressed the genesis just the other day, and it worked from what i can tell
mircea_popescu: sounds like some implicit lf/nl conversions, the loveliest thing in nature.
mircea_popescu: hanbot, the file is correct. the expected hash (3e43*) matches the keccak hash of that file ; the actual hash (05f5*) matches the sha hash of that file. you are for some reason using a sha v for this ?
billymg: hanbot: yes, i am able to press from any of the three current patches
billymg: i just took a closer look at the files on btcbase.org though and noticed that phf grabbed the old copies from my blog
billymg: this was somewhat my fault as the most recent post on my blog discusses the updates to the two patches but then links to the old versions (yes, they were labeled as old but were also the most prominent links on the page)
billymg: the post has been updated to be clearer for readers scanning quickly to get the files they want
billymg: hanbot: let me know if trying to press again with the patches from http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ doesn't work and i can look into it
billymg: might also be the v you're using, as mircea_popescu suggests. the old patches should press fine too
mircea_popescu: speaking of federation and stuff : hey spyked phf ben_vulpes : how much trouble would it be to log every channel in every network over 50 users ? item shouldn't be publicly exposed, but as a fullsearch query (say limited from l1). something like !Xircs "naked sluts" nin?s returning all the lines matching, in a paste encrypted to caller. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: can use the http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/top100.php thing for network list, and then of course each network will list its channels for you.
mircea_popescu: can of course charge per query.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other items of possible interest, http://freedns.afraid.org/domain/registry/
asciilifeform: guten tag mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: hola!
BingoBoingo: Buenas tardes
mircea_popescu: who yo callin a tard ? huh ? HUH!!!
BingoBoingo: The folks outside
BingoBoingo: Far too slow, late rather than early
mircea_popescu: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: thanks
mircea_popescu: slavegirl reports interesting fellow, we see how it goes.
BingoBoingo: Ah
chonkin: So a few minutes ago I laid some statistics about population incarceration rates in a number of different nations.
chonkin: This took place on another network. I didn't draw conclusions, I was told "Welcome to permament ignore, shithead"
chonkin: A common statistical pattern is repeated.
mircea_popescu: since we're doing "what did the girls find sifting" BingoBoingo, didja know there's an #uruguay on dalnet ?
BingoBoingo: Welcome, feel free to draw conclusions here.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did not, now Imma have to find dalnet and hope that is where the Gauchos are hiding
chonkin: Indigenous populations make up a minority percent of the popuulation P < 20% and their incarceration rates fall somewhere between 80% < Ir < 90%
chonkin: The same pattern is seen in Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia
chonkin: With australia having the greatest disparity. Indigenous aboriginals make up P = 7.9% with a staggering incareration rate Ir = 89%
mircea_popescu: chonkin, not to mention historical waves of incarceration as seen in the "melting pot" aka ny. first, jails fulla irishmen, locals saying irish is the new black. then their sons moved on to being the cops, jails fulla ets. then their sons moved on to being cops, and so on.
chonkin: The united states could be included here, while even thouhg the African American minority there are recent immigrants, the pattern is that they are of "non-europe descent"
mircea_popescu: but the irish and the italian historical migratory waves were of european descent. at least sorta
mircea_popescu: (neither were considered european in europe during the timeframes in question)
chonkin: mircea_popescu You can justifiably place such statistics alongside the incarceration rates, crime rates, and prison conditions seen in nations that are extraordinarily homogenous
chonkin: Japan and Finland
mircea_popescu: ie, racist arguments do not generally fail at the core, they generally fail at the skirts. you can always get broad agreement on "oh, blacks are tards". that never was problematic, it's a fundamental portion of human behaviour. the problems begin when you'\re asked to establish the limits / produce a "yes/no" answerer to "is this person black" format questions.
chonkin: mircea_popescu The Maori and the Aborigine were never part of any slave trade economy
mircea_popescu: you can see this fundamental behaviour among children. nothing is easier than for a group of pubescent boys/girls to agree "girls/boys are retarded / not worth bothering with". then one with nice tits, or a fellatio inclination, or whatever, an impressive hairdo or a skateboard shows up, and suddenly there's an exception. before you know it, within the decade everyone's married and their pubescent kids agree on the agreeme
mircea_popescu: nts.
chonkin: Certain theories make predictions and this is a matter of whether those predictions match what is measured or do not match them.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, as a factual matter, it's unlikely any live human being had a majority of ancestors who were not slaves at some point in their life. now, most of this is undocumented, but slavery is about as fundamental as eating.
chonkin: If prison incarceration rates "scale" with levels of white colonizing oppression, then Aboriginal incarceration rates should be low and African American I-r should be skyrocket high. THe opposite is true in relaity
mircea_popescu: i'm pretty sure "white colonizing oppression" is rank nonsense, on the level of "buddha".
mircea_popescu: the usual term for the process of education is... education.
chonkin: mircea_popescu Well -- I didn't even draw any conclusions. And because I did not virtue signal and chatter and state the colonizing oppression theory, I was called "shithead" and put on permanent ignore.
BingoBoingo: Well, here you can draw conclusions and present them for some back and forth usually leaning to refinement. Occasionally enlightenment.
mircea_popescu: sounds like a run of the mill libertard venue.
chonkin: I did discover recently some interesting tidbits
mircea_popescu: speaking of virtue signalling : http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/
chonkin: 1. the branch of math called Statistics was really completely founded in the 20th century
chonkin: 2. The principle developers of statistics were often part of eugenics groups.
mircea_popescu: what's "compleltely founded" ? a workable notion of number for eg, is early 1900s. most math could be said to only have a fundamental existence in the past century.
chonkin: While they would appear "racist" on modern Cable television, not all of their statements about minority groups were based on some kind of mystical white supremecy, white nationalism, or outright bigoted hatred.
mircea_popescu: that much is true, eugenics was rather fashionable for most of the pre-ww2 modern period.
chonkin: They just kind of flatly admitted that the stats showed them that these groups were different, and in many cases said that social policy should "reflect" these differences rather than work to undermine and hide them
mircea_popescu: chonkin, i used "racist" above to denote any theory that proposes there can be a fenotype-based partition on human population.
mircea_popescu: which is kinda what race is, "behold, by the magical powers of my caliper i can meaningfully distinguish haploid groups".
chonkin: mircea_popescu The award winning molecular biologist that discovered the structure of DNA (Francis Crick?) made some statements in public about African populations that got him called a "senile old racist coot"
chonkin: But if you look at what he says in context -- the entire statement --- he is neither senile nor racist
mircea_popescu: iirc that was discussed here
mircea_popescu: maybe was on qntra ?
chonkin: Sure, there are people in the plain stats and the midwest (ana appalachia) who are poor, white, and uneducated. They "hate blacks" and their racism is simply bigotry and hatred. Yes. This exists.
chonkin: I won't deny.
chonkin: And since I'm not denying things -- nor will I deny what teh statistics plainly show
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2019/01/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-chancellor-emeritus-title-over-afropessimism/
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, a right
chonkin: Angela Merkel stood at a podium, with TV cameras pointed at her and said that "Multi-culturalism has failed." And she was not happy about this like a bigoted neo-nazi. She meant it as a portent. "We really wanted it to succeed , but after 40 years it is failling"
BingoBoingo: chonkin: I suspect it isn't as strong of a regional thing in the US as the media folks push with the red/blue state stuff. Lots of bipeds in the US are literate in exactly the same way 98% of Uruguayos are literate.
chonkin: The violent crime rates in ultra-homogeneous Japan and Finland should give pause here.
chonkin: BingoBoingo Violent crime is so low in Japan that only tiny island nations like Monaco are equal to it -- ya know like places full of rich retired people.
BingoBoingo: Mind that Uruguay was almost completely innocent of violent crime until Mujica. And this is in South America.
mircea_popescu: i don't think that failure is either contentious or needs much elaboration. it's obvious enough, the socialist dreams have failed wholesale.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, why is violent crime a big deal in the first place ? shakespeare's venice is all about young doods stabbing each other, so what of it.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's not crime. There's cultural norms and practices in Shakespeare's Venice.
BingoBoingo: Violent crime is what happens when there's no cultural space left for necessary violence.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but the cultural norms were for the old dood's house to not be ransacked for valuables (ie, cunt & gold).
BingoBoingo: Sure, but there's also the important question of who gets to stab.
mircea_popescu: "'Zounds, sir, you are one of those that will not serve God, if the devil bid you. Because we come to do you service and you think we are ruffians, you'll have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse; you'll have your nephews neigh to you; you'll have coursers for cousins and gennets for germans." an' all that.
chonkin: YOU guys are -- (I wil say) unusually reasonable people. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: lmao.
BingoBoingo: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: OUtside this chatroom, you can't even state the possibility that urban black youth commit more crime than their white counterparts.
mircea_popescu: the republic is famous as the last repository of human thought, yes.
BingoBoingo: chonkin: Well, that's why we're here and not those other places.
BingoBoingo: Do you have a blog?
mircea_popescu: yeah he has a point. chonkin get yourself a pgp key, a blog, the works. gotta do things right yes.
chonkin: BingoBoingo The "narrative" outside this chat room.. a mere mile outside it -- is that blacks do not commit more crime... rather they are "arrested more by racist cops"
chonkin: Seriously
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
chonkin: Well let me add some anecdotes
chonkin: There was a 12 year old black boy playing with a plastic gun in a park. There was a light dusting of snow on the ground
mircea_popescu: sovok police mostly arrested georgians, too. cuz not every wanna-be bank robber can end up stalin, what.
chonkin: The park was empty.. other than said kid
chonkin: The police rolled into there, targeted him and just murdered him flat out
mircea_popescu: weird.
chonkin: A man was standing in a wal-mart holding an air gun he had grabbed from the shelf. He was standing in the cat food isle with said airgun pointed at the floor, and talking on a cellphone.
chonkin: While police officers closed distance and murdered him
chonkin: woops
chonkin: White* police officers closed distance on the "scary black man with the gun" and murdered him
BingoBoingo: Well, idly and inattentively brandishing things that look like arms is dangerous just about anyware.
chonkin: IN neither video was any attempt made to converse or 'engange with' the person. They just closed distance like soldier and opened fire
mircea_popescu: yeah, the us went down the tubes, didn't it.
BingoBoingo: But yes. US is a dangerous police state
chonkin: I made some facebook memes about both incidences. They cops basically said "This is bravo 6 to HQ. We have identified the hostile target in our AOR." "Roger that, bravo 6. You are cleared to engage." "Roger." RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT . " He's down! Target is down! Cease fire!"
mircea_popescu: chonkin, why would you "user generated content" for shitbook anyway ?
chonkin: No "you are surrouned". No "hands up this is the police" None of that. Target was identified and *eliminated*. Dispatched.
BingoBoingo: Or they could have though "If I talk he's going to talk back and that's work. If I shoot I get two weeks of paid leave"
chonkin: The man in wal-mart was standing in a composed and lazy body position, pointing an airgun at the floor in the catfood isle. Talking on a callphone. And they jsut closed distance and murdered him cold.
BingoBoingo: Cold and ready for two paid weeks off.
chonkin: The 12 year old black boy with the plastic gun in teh park. Those cops vehicle had not come to afull stop, and they had flun open the doors and where opening fire before their bodies had even really gotten out of the door
chonkin: they were like aiming for the kid with their pistols as their arms are like coming out of the windows
chonkin: They could have just rolled in with atank and wasted the kid with a .50 cal
mircea_popescu: alf will be pleased to hear his http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-26#1072977 is almost complete ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture
BingoBoingo: <chonkin> They could have just rolled in with atank and wasted the kid with a .50 cal << Bad optics. Gotta act startled when you shoot or you become just another inmate instead of a guard with vacation time.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: AHA http://qntra.net/2015/03/local-police-arming-robots/
chonkin: [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
chonkin: So
chonkin: Have you heard about the key court cases where it was legally shown that cops are under no legal obligation to the protect anyone from harm?
mircea_popescu: yes.
chonkin: This topic was revived againg recently when a mall cop hid outside in his car during a school shooting.
BingoBoingo: I though he was a full fledged sheriff's deputy that couldn't even be a mall cop
chonkin: The first reaction was "What a coward! How could he!" et cetera. After the emotional fire subsided to embers it was "Didn't that cop have an obligation to go in there and engage in teh shooter?" then it was ---
mircea_popescu: well, a) mall cops aren't cops, they're security guards and b) the hotel security guard who pestered that guy in florida pretty much generated the shooting.
mircea_popescu: so yeah. hiding in car is actually the official policy ; and for good reason at that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Your b was the Las Vegas one
chonkin: mircea_popescu I was using 'mall cop' as a facetious slur here.
mircea_popescu: a sorry. las vegas.
chonkin: People wanted to the cowardly cop hiding in teh parking lot to be *charged with something* Derliction of duty. Something.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, point still remains, security guards aren't there to get involved in shootouts.
chonkin: Then the lawyers showed up. "Nope. No crime. He is not legally obligated to protect."
chonkin: who new?
chonkin: who kn?
chonkin: who knew
mircea_popescu: well, anyone with a clue, really.
BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk ☟︎
chonkin: so vis-a-vis : [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, why don't you use the proper format for logline referencing, like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904339 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 18:48 BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk
chonkin: mircea_popescu Let me be more literaly since facetiousness is not being communicated properly
chonkin: School shooting. When : Feb 14. 2018 Where : Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Florida. Who: Fully-badged sheriff deputies. Four in total. On duty.
chonkin: They hid safely in the parking lot.
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: lulzy.
chonkin: People cried foul in anger and betrayal. They wanted the cowardly sherrif deputies to be "Charged with somehting" "Derilecion of duty." "Suspend and de-badge!" et cetera
chonkin: Lawyers arrive.
asciilifeform: chonkin: 'warren vs district of columbia' (1981)
chonkin: Lawyers explain in their special language that the police ON DUTY POLICE OFFICERS WITH BADGES AND GUNS are under "no legal obligation to protect anyone from harm even when they are aware it is happening"
mircea_popescu: well, yes. the matter still stands, police aren't held to specifically do anything. there's a lengthy string of cases going way past the 70s.
chonkin: okay
asciilifeform: from horse's mouth, 'the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists'
mircea_popescu: kitty genovese resulted in some regulations ~for bystanders~
mircea_popescu: but never for police.
chonkin: asciilifeform Right.
nicoleci: in other lolz-- * Looking up chaostal.hackint.org * Connecting to chaostal.hackint.org ( port 6667... * *** Notice -- You need to use SSL/TLS to use this server
mircea_popescu: hahaha.
mircea_popescu: well yes, real "hackers" ssl :D
asciilifeform: chonkin: police have 0 to do with specific plebe and his problems with specific thief or axe maniac etc. they are there to uphold the regime. somehow this is clear to people in ru, zimbabwe, etc. but ameritards have various elaborate illusions on the subj.
BingoBoingo: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: Now take that conclusion and put it in a bowl and mix with a beater until a fine foam is formed ---> [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
mircea_popescu: im not sure what the problem is. the police is organised by the king, and yes, its function is the maintenance of the kingdom in order from the king's pov.
asciilifeform: problem exists strictly for folx who didn't get the memo, aha
chonkin: The counter argument to this cynical indictment of modern socity that police are there to "keep the proletariat in check" is to say, "No! Police are brave proud protectors of the public who put their lives on the line to blah blah blah and serve and protect and be Superman and Marvel Superheroes against the forces of evil and crime!"
chonkin: Nope.
BingoBoingo: chonkin: I recommend registering a GPG key (preferably RSA 4096) with deedbot before you disconnect. That way you can come back and keep your voice: http://deedbot.org/help.html
chonkin: NOt on paper they aren't.
asciilifeform: chonkin: both on paper and with naked eye, the 'what is police for' q is not any kind of puzzler. it is obv. other than to the willfully blind.
chonkin: They can sit in their cars playing sudoku while a kid turns a high school into swiss cheese with his AR-15
chonkin: Yes.
chonkin: Yes , they can.
chonkin: And you know what?
chonkin: They did.
asciilifeform: otoh if someone tips off police that you have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-10#1654285 in yer closet, there'll be two dozen squad cars in 10 minutes. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-10 19:28 asciilifeform: remember, this was the country where a man got 20 yrs for being found with a shoelace and a semiauto
mircea_popescu: the plebs are, always were, and forever will be, entirely incidental.
asciilifeform: by definition neh.
mircea_popescu: quite.
chonkin: ALright alright GPG key. got it.
chonkin: But yeh, there is a little flavoring of Marx in the idea that police exist to corall and control the underclass. Flavorings that sort of rise ot teh top of the bowl and stick to the outer edges
mircea_popescu: what's marxist about it ?
chonkin: Marxism suggests the police exist to protect property, not people
BingoBoingo: All Marx did was simplify Hegel and add derp.
mircea_popescu: but this is like saying the color red has "some coca cola in it", because "coca cola uses red as part of its xmas nonsense". so ?
mircea_popescu: the fact that the police exists to protect the powerful from the maraudingly idiotic is unrelated to marxism, and well predates it.
chonkin: mircea_popescu No I think it is more accurate to say that you are attempting to distance yourself from any kind of marxism at all for ______ (insert some unspoken reason)
mircea_popescu: well, the reason'd be that i think it's inconsequential nonsense. marx, ziggler, joseph smith, whatever ustarded self-help authors are broadly speaking irrelevant in any conversation.
mircea_popescu: you see some substantial difference between marx and any of the chautauqua retards, for instance ?
mircea_popescu: because i don't, to me it's all the same vaudeville.
chonkin: mircea_popescu The outcry from the public over the sherrif's hiding in their cars while a school was shot up indicates that there is, at the least, a wound to people's collective conscience.
mircea_popescu: i dispute there ever can be such a thing as a meaningful "collective" declared after the fact.
mircea_popescu: for the same money you're going to take ballots from "the collective stars" at night. what collective ?
chonkin: The law does not coincide with their deeply-held ethical reactions here.
chonkin: not reactions
mircea_popescu: there's no ethics involved.
chonkin: The law does not coincide with their deeply-held ethical framework here. (Cant think of a better word)
mircea_popescu: in a large enough collection of cows, be they bipedal or otherwise, there will occasionally be perceived synchronized mooing
mircea_popescu: this is not a topic of study, as per libermann. it is a topic of stupid.
chonkin: mircea_popescu Could you admit to some shared cultural ethos that elevates the Policeman Superhero to a person who reaches beyond themselves ina "call of duty" to "put their lives on the line" for the protection fo such-and-such
mircea_popescu: according to the "deeply held ethical notions" of south koreans currently living, sleeping with a fan on will lead to suffocation through the fan's "consuming of the oxygen".
mircea_popescu: this and that are the same thing : groups of cows go moo! moo!
chonkin: Not "thugs who protect propery of the bourgeoisie" but "Hero protectors"
mircea_popescu: chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not.
mircea_popescu: it carries no particular relation with reality, though.
chonkin: "I put my livecs on the line for" "I sacrafice for" etc
chonkin: mircea_popescu Okay then they are government thugs who protect property then.
chonkin: Okay.
chonkin: Is that "reality" ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not. << Powder post beetles are a thing
mircea_popescu: chonkin, that "the police" is the name for this historical institution consisting of the muscle lords pooled together is the plainest reality.
mircea_popescu: much like a restaurant's "waiters" are the remnant of what used to be the lords' servants following them around, only mutualized, so is the police.
BingoBoingo: US police pointedly do not protect "property" in the general sense. Ambitious College bound urban youth steals your bike. What follows is police steal the bike from the stealing kid, then sell your bike at auction.
chonkin: mircea_popescu This sounds almost like verbatim pages out of Karl Marx.
mircea_popescu: i must say though that this "heroic policemen" item smacks me of old soviet union narratives. you speak russian chonkin ?
mircea_popescu: yes, well, what next, "this shakespeare guy i never heard about sounds almost like verbatim pages from bowdler" ?
chonkin: "Serve and protect" is in some kind of police oath.
chonkin: But this is more like serve the muscled landlords and protect the muscled landlord's property.
mircea_popescu: well what the hell else can it meaningfully be.
mircea_popescu: you understand this, the peons ~can not be said to substantially eixst~! they aren't fucking here in any sense.
chonkin: mircea_popescu The idea was that democracy and republicanism replaced the monarchies and rigid class of the fuedal period.
mircea_popescu: i dunno whose idea this was, but it's not mine.
chonkin: Karl Marx goes -- hol 'up --- the feudal class hiearchy persists in capitalism with armed thugs protecting the landlord's cache of capital. e.g. "the police"
chonkin: And there are actual pages of his writing where he says this
chonkin: Im' GPG-keying with this bot right now.. and I will dig up the citations when I get around to it in a few minutes. So hold tight
mircea_popescu: "democracy" is, well, rank nonsense. here, have some items : http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ ; http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/
mircea_popescu: both antique and modern versions there covered.
mircea_popescu: and a republic never was, nor ever could or will be anything else than a lordship. such as this one, such as the earlier venetian attempt a millenium ago, such as all others.
mircea_popescu: the republic is the voice of the elite.
chonkin: mircea these assertions are like marxism 101. (but I'm getting this bot all set up and I will get back to you in a few)
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the dispute isn't whether "marx blathered in this vein". you know who bowdler was ?
chonkin: mircea_popescu YOU will have to deal with teh fact that Marx's ideas very much overlap yours. This is not *my* problem. It is yours. You deal with the obvious overlap in whatever emotional way you ened ot in order to sleep and night and get by.
chonkin: But the overlap *is* there.
mircea_popescu: i dunno i have to "deal" with it, beyond not giving a shit. again, some derp mouthing something or the other creates no point of interest.
chonkin: mircea_popescu Then why the invective and acrimony>
chonkin: The voice of a grown adult is "Yes. It's the same idea. Same same. Moving on"
mircea_popescu: yet again -- ever heard of thomas bowdler ?
chonkin: mircea_popescu Are you nudge-winking me that "every single sentence Marx put to paper was metphysically incorrect, so don't dare compare me to him in his wrong-ity"???
chonkin: You tell me
BingoBoingo: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: (I'm gonna deal with this bot GPG key crap, and you're gonna sit tight)
mircea_popescu: no, i'm saying that some random dork misspelling shakespeare isn't a "problem" or something shakespeare has to deal with.
BingoBoingo: <chonkin> mircea_popescu Are you nudge-winking me that "every single sentence Marx put to paper was metphysically incorrect, so don't dare compare me to him in his wrong-ity"??? << You have to look at what the man was saying. Marx is a rather late fellow, 19th century. The world worked long before Marx. Marx cribbed a guy http://bingology.net/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/ and tried to use the
BingoBoingo: guy's tools to tear down the functional world on the idea all bipeds are people while he failed to feed his children.
BingoBoingo: The world working a certain way and Marx mentioning those workings doesn't make talking about those workings Marxist
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a sense marx is the original, one-man "social media platform" slash spammer attack on the conversation. ie, "here's some bits of text i culled from the net, and here's some links, publish my comment".
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the ideological progenitors of Marxism are the Britshits in parliament setting the stage for Marx's spam attacks to work. Marx himself pretty much a non-entity beyond folks finding the spread of his spam reason to use his name as a label.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't work for "RodneyOnern" earlier today and it didn't work for "Karl Marx" earlier this century. the irrelevant circumstance that some blogs publish spam and some morons became michael jackson fans or roosh v or karl marx or dale carnegie fans/true believers/whatever is exactly as the word says : irrelevant.
BingoBoingo: Back when the US read, "Hegelian" groups sprouted up in US cities advocating a bunch of stuff that now gets labeled Marxist, because the Spam was targeted to their level
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, do you happen to recall which the hell trilema article is it where i say that the illusion of existence or identity randos cherish is merely the reflection of my interaction with the world, an interaction to which they're neither party nor necessary ?
BingoBoingo: not off hand, can dig
mircea_popescu: minor point i guess. anyways.
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2015/the-lulz-in-dating/ ?
mircea_popescu: nah, this year.
nicoleci: in continuing hystericals, https://bondageinternational.com/Hypnotism/coverthypnotism/ ☟︎
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-meant-by-ai/#selection-211.0-223.0
mircea_popescu: lol don't tell me, tehy're gonna magically get laid ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, nah. it was quite literal, i just don't recall the nouns so my search dun work
nicoleci: mircea_popescu, lol, i doubt the dorks have the nerve. probably just magic dry hump.
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2019/the-working-philosopher-and-the-what-if-philosopher/
mircea_popescu: nope ;/ still not the one i had in mind god damn it all to hell, im turning senile over here.
BingoBoingo: Found it http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.0-119.401
BingoBoingo: "I am one such, if any others do indeed exist, because ~that is what I am~. Your existence, such as you perceive it, is a minimal side effect of the foregoing, nothing more than that. In the strictest of senses : your perception of your own existence is merely the shimmering, distant reflection of a coupling between the world and me, that is in itself self-sufficient and has entirely no need of you."
BingoBoingo: Fuck that was a tighter match than I was expecting
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, fuck me you found it!
mircea_popescu: wd
BingoBoingo: ty
asciilifeform meanwhile finished massive rewrite of ch18 mechanisms, nao goes to rewrite the text..
BingoBoingo: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: alright
chonkin: deedbot says I cannot !!up myself
chonkin: So I have no idea what all the public key register stuff was for
chonkin: anyways
chonkin: Karl Marx was a German economist. Not a "blog spammer".
BingoBoingo: !!rate chonkin 1 Loan of voice
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SqPGY/?raw=true
chonkin: So if your ideas overlap with Karl Marx, you say "ON this particular point we agree about police and their use in modern society." Leave it at that.
chonkin: Anything less is just immaturity
danielpbarron: !!rate chonkin 1 chatted with him on dalnet about the Bible
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DK7NK/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: <chonkin> Karl Marx was a German economist. Not a "blog spammer". << Part of being sensible people per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904281 is we gotta filter nonsense somehow ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 18:32 chonkin: YOU guys are -- (I wil say) unusually reasonable people.
BingoBoingo: And that means filing Marx away to the "noise" namespace
chonkin: Or just roll around and have a tantrum while yelling "Do not compare me to Marx!" until your face turns blue.
chonkin: Your choice. As you were.
BingoBoingo: !!v B1E5B3A67AA014D87466D5A65F5F87FEC6A13D2C3CA0E81884D107B46796D4DF
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated chonkin 1 << Loan of voice
BingoBoingo: chonkin: What part of the world do you call home?
chonkin: usa
BingoBoingo: Why haven't you left yet?
chonkin: Well I have all the paperwork in order.
BingoBoingo: You seem to be very aware you live in an oppressive police state. What's keeping you in?
chonkin: I don't have a thick enough resume to immigrate
BingoBoingo: Most of the Venezolanas immigrating to down here this year don't have thick resumes
BingoBoingo: 2013-2015 they did, but now a lot of cajeras looking for a new home
BingoBoingo: What is your trade?
chonkin: My perspective is that we are concentraing on the role of police in society, which Marx had a very cynical take on identical to some postings here. I wasn't placing his bust on a pedestal or defending the body of his works
chonkin: somehow this invoked a tirade of hegelian historical anecdotes and something about how he "failed to feed his children" or something
BingoBoingo: I'm moving that to the table. Most folks here work on projects carving out fiefs in out brave new world. "What is your trade?" was intented to fish out what sort of things you do.
chonkin: I've made some money writing software
chonkin: I know C, C++, Scala, Java (and some little bit of python)
BingoBoingo: Ever play with ADA? http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/
chonkin: o_O
chonkin: ada for critical code.. interesting
BingoBoingo: We're hygienic folk here
chonkin: Is this real? https://www.adaic.org/advantages/ada-overview/
mircea_popescu: chonkin, most of that's your own read-in. i simply pointed out "marx" isn't somebody. you wanna carry a discussion with someone, you're stuck using mutual ground. you're more than welcome to think what you will, but to me marx is indistinguishable from any other blog spammer, for reasons explained. you're more than welcome to engage those or not, but that's about how far it goes.
chonkin: Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him. We still read articles about how "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies" and we watch CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as anyone currently knows, that is real. there's a lot of work undergoing to establish just how real it actually is tho.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, amusingly enough, "economists" also aren't somebody, so this doesn't do much.
BingoBoingo: Getting up to speed with what us reasonable people do generally takes several months of reading. What we do is carve out space for us hygeinic reasonable people to live without suffering the unwashed poptards. http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
chonkin: Alex Trebek: This German economist was the frist to utilize the unemployment rate. {Jeopardy music plays}
mircea_popescu shrugs.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, i expect deedbot will let you self-voice now, give it a try.
BingoBoingo: What you were missing earlier was a rating
BingoBoingo: Which you now have
hanbot: unwashed poptards << lol another in the bucket of BingoBoingo's Choicest Cut Neologisms
BingoBoingo: Anyways chonkin, cutting out poptard noise is one of the biggest drivers here http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/
mircea_popescu: poptarts!!!
BingoBoingo: ty hanbot. I don't recall finding that one in the wild. May actually be new coinage.
mircea_popescu: i suspect it is yea
BingoBoingo: Apparently it has been used before, but in a very different sense https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poptard
BingoBoingo: I meant in the sense of someone slowed and crippled by excess communion with popular things
mircea_popescu: "Wildly influential pop celebrity with absolutely no intelligence. This is usually from the perspective of the parents of kids who listen to / emulate the tard in question."
mircea_popescu: i suppose it works.
mircea_popescu: !!up chonkin
deedbot: chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
chonkin: Oh sorry. I happen to consider "Marxism" to be the writings of the german economist Karl Marx. I understand recent history has blurred this considerably.
chonkin: I just consider it idle economics hypothesizing like any other theory of macroeconomics
mircea_popescu: chonkin, pm deedbot !!up then !!v the challenge string.
mircea_popescu: and otherwise, what i'm saying that "the german economist karl marx" is not different from "the methodist minister john heyl vincent" or "the public woman simone farrow" or whatever. i guess if you're related you're interested in the epitaph, but otherwise the cemeteries are full of "names". these names do not bear any consequence, nor do they last all that long.
mircea_popescu: nor are they properly called names, really. the plebs don't get names per se, rather the ~names~ get plebs associated now and again.
mircea_popescu: whence you see things like https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/karl/marx "top 10 karl marx profiles"
chonkin: okay
chonkin: I wouldn't say things like Keynesian economics is a "dangerous ideology"
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't either. It's just a destructive fad.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with just calling it a fashion ?
chonkin: Stalin was trained in the dark arts of writings of Brother Karl Marx , in particular his principle opus, The Incantation of Lord Communis
mircea_popescu: i mean, at some point there was this widespread belief that an island of warrior women exists somewhere.
chonkin: From this he gained incredible power to take over Russia and throw the countryside into darkness and misery
mircea_popescu: fiction is fiction, what's the problem with that. especially if it's entertaining.
chonkin: I mean, before Lenin, the Russians were highly lliterate, they all owned their own land and drove their kids to soccer practice in minivans.
chonkin: Yep -- just like that.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the belief that "stalin learned dark arts from writing" is specifically why i mentioned roosh in the list earlier -- it's exactly like "ima learn how to get laid from writings", pure and simple http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904458 nonsense. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 19:46 nicoleci: in continuing hystericals, https://bondageinternational.com/Hypnotism/coverthypnotism/
mircea_popescu: or, if you prefer, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
mircea_popescu: the two aren't in any sense distinct anyway.
chonkin: mircea_popescu I mean *phew* Stalin really needed those dark magical powers to take down a thriving free market of russia, ya know with all its strong private land ownership, and thriving middle class :]
mircea_popescu: it's unclear to me there was much strenght in imperial russia. seems more like a collection of rural mini-socialism ("mirvniki", w/e) which stalin integrated. kinda how this works, dropplets of the same thing join up.
chonkin: (To be more serious about this) Stalin didn't do anything really original if you look at how monarchs and other petty princes operated since Rome
mircea_popescu: turned the item from state a, "a thin sliver of french-wankists atop a million village-sized ancestral communisms" into state b, "a thin sliver of rarara nation-of-soviet bureaucrats atop a unified communism 30mn strong"
mircea_popescu: chonkin, exactly right.
chonkin: You take over the judiciary and then weaponize it against your political enemies. Then you use it to protect your buddies in crime. I think jefferson called these 'mock trials' in the DOI
mircea_popescu: well, no, judiciary was entirely inconsequential. this is just you know, "liberal democracy" wank. the judiciary neither existed nor figured in either russian politicas or russian discourse. it was an army matter.
BingoBoingo: Pepe Mujica went to prison for being a theiving terrorist, not for being a leftist
mircea_popescu: moreover, "the judiciary" doesn't exist and doesn't figure as a matter of course ; with the exception of a particularly tenous attempt at empire building by the anglos, coupla centuries ago, "the judiciary" is ~same as "the bugaboo"
chonkin: Or you could do what most americans did in the 1950s -- which is to just run around saying Stalin picked up the Dark Side of the Force by reading Marx -- mystical books which "infused him with evil powers"
chonkin: Even to this day, when they place Stalin's coat near house plants they wilt and die in a week.
BingoBoingo: Most Americans in the 1950's live high on the hog because the rest of the Industrial world was bombed to shit in the 1940's
mircea_popescu: hence both http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903638 and http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ or http://trilema.com/2013/the-endless-story-of-korea/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-20 17:57 mircea_popescu: "conviction" of public person / functionary / official in orclands 100% "usg.blue interference" by now.
chonkin: Well, ya know Ronald Reagon rode to Berlin on a unicorn and knocked the Wall of Stalin down with a lightsaber,. (..or something like that)
mircea_popescu: where was that link of alf's!
mircea_popescu: the future view on ww2
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876445 << there we go. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:42 asciilifeform: was transparently http://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/
chonkin: Master Jedi Reagan drove his staff and parted the waters.
mircea_popescu: i suppose running into the republic is quite the source of mental dissonance huh.
trinque puzzles at chonkin's point here.
trinque: what is it that lives behind the symbol "marx" in your head that you'd like to bring forward?
chonkin: trinque I worry that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are being given free reign to define him.
trinque: these are people who have reign within which to define someone?
chonkin: So Peterson is running around saying Marxism is a form of egalitarianism. And then saying that this stuff about non-binary genders with strange pronounds is "marxist feminism"
BingoBoingo: Peterson also tells kids to clean their rooms and eat nothing but beef. Weirdos do weird shit
chonkin: BingoBoingo I was answering trinque's question. That is all
trinque: chonkin: what's the truetrue marxism then? the marxissismus?
BingoBoingo: Anyways, cultural marxism is a thing where some group tries to apply hegel's dialectic but uses the more popular Marx brand
chonkin: Yeah Ive heard this "cultural marxism is invading the universities". But _whatever that means_ to those spouting it, it is only happening on the humanities side of campus
chonkin: SO
BingoBoingo: That they use a weird label doesn't mean the stupidity ratchet isn't being turned where it can be turned http://trilema.com/2018/the-stupidity-ratchet/
chonkin: There was push-back and drama regarding this issue of "affirmative action" in the workplace. And the Fox-newsy crowed bemoaned a kind of reverse racial profiling against white males
chonkin: "quotas" they called them
chonkin: Universities don't operate by the rules of the outside world. They take affirmative action seriously and totally implement quotas
chonkin: they also have these things called "micro-aggressions" where you are not allowed to ask an obviously forign professor with a thick accent where he "Came from"
chonkin: These university 'cultural rules' are taken completely seriously and you can be fired , demoted, puniushed. expelled
trinque: what do you imagine is to be done about it?
BingoBoingo: There were also all sorts of places on the campuses I wasn't "allowed" to piss, where I did indeed piss after spirited drinking.
chonkin: http://trilema.com/republican-thesaurus/#selection-257.0-263.0
chonkin: "Cuck, current contraction of older cuckold, is a male that deems what women have to say intrinsically importantvi. The term for a male that wants the women he owns fucked by others is pimp, and yes it's a kinkvii, entirely unrelated to economic exchangeviii. "
chonkin: lmao
mircea_popescu: chonkin, i think that's very much wishful thinking, "only happening on humanities side". mit has been churning out strictly illiterate "graduates" for decades now.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it'd be my considered opinion that humanities, as sadly represented by say that wykeham moron nevertheless are doing way the fuyck better than sciences. a 17% vs 2% sorta comparison.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, i don't know anyone who seriously believes "universities" are either important, noteworthy, or influential. for ~same money could discuss "canasta clubs" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: so -- if you don't like the strange rules the old women at the canasta club came up with, one very obvious, wide and practical avenue would be to... find something more age, gender, circumstance and mental-nonimpaired appropriate to do with your evenings.
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/24/pizarro-isp-march-24th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP March 24th Update
chonkin: mircea_popescu Well the cultural marxism (Whatever that is) sneaked into MIT when that one physics professor was instantly fired for sending something to a female student over email
chonkin: An email whose contents were considered "inappropriate" (likely sexual)
chonkin: Walter Lewin
chonkin: he was beloved of every undergraduate on that campus ☟︎
chonkin: He taught introductory physics at MIT
chonkin: After being instantly fired for sending a naughty email, there was a debacle about whether he owned the rights to his own videos shot during his lectures
chonkin sighs
chonkin: "Sexual harrassment" was supposed to be a recognition of constant, perpetual ongoing sexual imposition into conversation that created a constant atmosphere of toxicity for female employees.
chonkin: constant
chonkin: repeated
chonkin: on-going
chonkin: Well -- the universities got a ahold of this idea. And now a single flub-up by a highly respected and beloved professor was sufficent grounds fo immediate termination
chonkin: In early December, 2014, MIT announced that it had determined that Lewin engaged in online sexual harassment of an online MITx learner in violation of MIT's policies.[1] Inside Higher Ed reported that this learner was one of many (at least 10) female students to whom Lewin had sent inappropriate messages.
chonkin: ahh
chonkin: that reminds me
chonkin: In the same 'venue' where I was called "shithead" and placed on "permanent ignore" I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease ☟︎
chonkin: The push back was over-the-top
mircea_popescu: !#s lewin
a111: 7 results for "lewin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=lewin
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the part that you're missing here is that "universities" are no longer doing anything. consequently, they no longer matters. this comes way before any "severed ties".
mircea_popescu: and no, oif course he doesn't "own rights". that's both why you're supposed to make y0our own blog, rather than rely on some usg.scammer platform (be it called "facebook" or "mit", it makes exactly no difference, all the products of socialism are the same product). ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904617 << you mean like http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/#selection-251.0-261.20 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 23:06 chonkin: In the same 'venue' where I was called "shithead" and placed on "permanent ignore" I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904513 -> what we is that chonkin ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 20:32 chonkin: Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him. We still read articles about how "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies" and we watch CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904605 << see also oblig. : >> http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 22:47 chonkin: he was beloved of every undergraduate on that campus