log
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asciilifeform: all machines of same type (varying only in ram/disk config)
asciilifeform: relatedly, asciilifeform has a backburner affair where disasm of the particular 3ware bios , looking for lulz (to date found none, aside from it having a quite bulky cpp runtime lib)
asciilifeform: so far the old proverb 'на ловца и зверь бежит' dun seem to play out for asciilifeform , somehow hitler dun feel like putting the delish booby catalogue items where asciilifeform's dirty orc hands can get to'em..
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: so far all i know is that the thing rebooted without sanction, no fewer than 3x. << It breathes ever so slightly better than it did before the opening and fan check
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: y'know , these things ~do~ like a ~yearly breath of high pressure freon
mircea_popescu: i dunno, man. if i ran a moron empire with delusions of "pen devices" etc, it'd do precisely the sort of inept rebooting.
asciilifeform: ( in torture room, asciilifeform has an antistatic vacuum thing and other nice things )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun see wai not to bug upstream, but then again i dun work at reichskanzlei
mircea_popescu: "it's not a truck" or similar reasoning.
asciilifeform: i've mostly sworn off trying to picture the 'reasoning'
asciilifeform: there's ~0 reason to it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we live to bake the fpga router thing, will be interesting to give it a ring buffer that'll hold coupla 100MB of frames, and dump'em to flash upon any unsanctioned reboot of attached irons.
asciilifeform: oughta trivially capture 'magic packet' (under the old hypothesis that these result in fandango)
asciilifeform: i'ma take the chance to highlight the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886752 thing -- on sane iron , there'd be no such thing as a 'oops rebooted but fuck if i tellya why' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 04:15 mircea_popescu: i'd like a computer where i didn't have this sort of problem.
asciilifeform: there's no physical or practical reason why the last million or two instructions executed prior to whatever fail, should not be available after
asciilifeform: ( on top of ram contents, etc )
asciilifeform: 1 of the 9000 sane things bolix tried, valiantly , to do, within the limitations of the period irons.
asciilifeform: ( had 'fep', a supervisor cpu thing, but not the 'remote booby' item presently extant in intel irons, but a thing available strictly from console, and 'crash' halted the main cpu and dropped you into it, where you could peek/poke, probe irons, etc )
asciilifeform: fep ran from rom and could not be crashed other than by hand (or when iron is finally smoking, smouldering)
asciilifeform: asciilifeform finds it fascinating that even satellites, moon buggies, etc. naodays dun have a 'snapshot state of iron if crash'
asciilifeform: evidently it cannot be bought with moneys anymoar
asciilifeform: apparently this is what you get if there aint a 'lavrentiy pavlovich' in the design loop.
asciilifeform: imho if satellite 'oops it crashed and i cant tellya why', designer oughta get a 1way ticket to its orbit to go and debug..
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in darkest lulzafrica, 'Today we’re happy to announce that Urbit’s address space, now called Azimuth, is live on the Ethereum blockchain... We want Urbit to be a reliable, durable, permanent computer that’s simple to use. Today Urbit is still a prototype, not a consumer product. But we’re making great progress' ☟︎
shinohai: "Buy our vaporware today!"
asciilifeform: 'that is not dead which can eternal lie..' or how did it go.
asciilifeform: ohai shinohai
shinohai: Heya asciilifeform
asciilifeform: shinohai: nifty eulora piece. yer ahead of asciilifeform in that battlefield, i've yet to attempt building eulora
shinohai: I still have nfi why the bullet barf, diana_coman says it has to do with proximity things. Hopefully I'll get some time in game to see if negative effects occur.
shinohai: (Also have companion trb piece, but was waiting for mod6 's keccak regrind)
asciilifeform: shinohai: neato. what didja do re trb ?
shinohai: Haven't completed build yet since mod6 published, but have tried the old method which unsurprisingly went fantastic.
shinohai: Cuntoo is simply a joy to use.
mircea_popescu: /mode #trilema +b *!*@173-26-3-1.client.mchsi.com
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886698 << those poor people, and what they had to do for a logarithm. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 00:36 feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/01/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714 - Part I.
hanbot: well, this is my 3rd iirc restart of znc in two days, slightly more interruption than the problem i started using znc on UY1 to fix posed. looks like no prognosis yet eh?
lobbesbot: hanbot: Sent 1 day, 10 hours, and 22 minutes ago: <billymg> mp-wp patches have been updated: http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ -- the only \ No newline at end of file strings you should find in .svg refs patch are from before part of the diff (i.e. file diffed had no newline at the end)
asciilifeform: hanbot: when was 'this' plox ?
asciilifeform: box is still up
BingoBoingo: hanbot: The investigation is ongoing. Other than the chassis interor being marginally cleaner than before asciilifeform instrumented the machine, answers remain elusive. Per http://pizarroisp.net/2019/01/14/pizarro-isp-update-january-14-2019/#selection-13.0-17.315 I am inclined to not charge any Pizarro shared hosting customers for the month of January though I am open to hearing other suggested remedies.
asciilifeform: been up continuously since i set up sensors earlier today, and still alive, with 0 anomalous readings
asciilifeform: hanbot: we dun know yet wtf reset the box ( and it happened no fewer than 3 times, in 2 day span )
asciilifeform: hanbot: today i set up realtime stream of system log + voltages + temperatures + fan rpm to the torture room, was expecting to find thermal problem, so far 0
asciilifeform: hanbot & other subscribers to uy1 : plox to inform asciilifeform asap if you notice ~any~ unusual behaviour on this box ( not only reset , reset will be obvious from here )
trinque: conspicuous bit is various folks having moved their comms aboard uy1
BingoBoingo: During palm touch tests before cleaning fans the warmest part of the chasis was near the RAID card, by a margin that though small registered on my skin. Do we have a way to instrument the RAID card.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's in the log
trinque: but you know, pattern-seeking primate amidst randomness
trinque: ftr I don't need a month's comp for a few hours of outage, though a few hours of outage does suck.
asciilifeform: outages suck, period
asciilifeform: !#s how many bugs tolerate
a111: 5 results for "how many bugs tolerate", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=how%20many%20bugs%20tolerate
asciilifeform: my fiber has 5-10 minutes of outage in a year, and ~that~ palpably suxx
mircea_popescu: the one concerning bit is whether indeed pizarro still owns that box or not.
BingoBoingo: trinque: My though on the month is that the money being paid for shared hosting is very real to our customers, and we lack a firm hour count on how many customer uptime hours have been lost.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this q can be asked re any box.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the one concerning bit is whether indeed pizarro still owns that box or not. << This very much concerns me
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no, original box had a chain of custody, and a history of predictable behaviour.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw crashism is more typical result of failed diddling than working.
trinque: BingoBoingo: signaling my willingness to pay, not my condoning of the outage.
mircea_popescu: this stance is consistent with, inter alia, republican practice -- we moved variously boxes off providers who kept rebooting them "mysteriously"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't disagree, and am inclined to move it to cold spare when we get another crate in.
mircea_popescu: and the coincidence is there, and glaringly. we know for a fapt inept http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/ efforts ~signature move~ is rebootage, much like olde smersh signature move was the clicking on phone line ; and as he points out, buncha people moved their zncs there.
asciilifeform: the sad part tho is that if asciilifeform threw out erry retardix box that ever kernel panicked, would have none left in service
mircea_popescu: is this a fact, eg the rockchips ?
asciilifeform: i haven't succeeded in crashing a rockchip yet ( outside from the rotting usb ssd's affair )
mircea_popescu: so then as a factual matter, if asciilifeform threw out erry box that rebooted "by itself" for no apparent reason, pizarro would be missing uy1
asciilifeform: but indeed i'd much like to move to a 'near-errybody on rockchips' , ~these~ can approximate the ideal of 'treat irons as toilet paper, discard on 1st sign of rot'
asciilifeform: this is a case where '1024 chickens' wins
mircea_popescu: i confess i have nfi what makes you think commodity hardware failed in this case.
asciilifeform: i dun currently have any notion of knowing what, precisely , failed
mircea_popescu: outside of hard drives, and capacitors on OVER FIFTEEN YEAR OLD motherbopards, i have not witnessed this wonder myself, of failing hardware.
asciilifeform: i have
mircea_popescu: kudos to you, but nevertheless.
asciilifeform: ram, typically
asciilifeform: ( why -- i do not know. but ram appears to age, possibly ion migration )
mircea_popescu: but the ram in that box is as new as a kitten.
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: hm ?
asciilifeform: the only new iron in the cage is the rk's.
BingoBoingo: The solid state drives in UY1 were new
mircea_popescu: i'm confused, you bought used ram ? i seem to recall a discussion...
asciilifeform: and disks yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 100% of the x86 iron in the cage is 2009-11 vintage.
BingoBoingo: From what I understand the ram came with the chassis
mircea_popescu: weren't you shipping a bunch of new rams to make it ?!
asciilifeform: ( can't speak for colo subscribers such as trinque , referring to pizarro irons )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: disks
mircea_popescu: i guess i must've mixed things.
asciilifeform: ssds are new, no one buys used ssd, it'd be like buying used toiletpaper
mircea_popescu: but i mean... so you have ten year old gb ram ?
asciilifeform: and 10yo caps etc
mircea_popescu: i never saw a mobo bust a cap and then boot by itself again tho. besides, he'd see a busted cap i imagine.
BingoBoingo: I saw no burst caps
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871 << typical example of when caps.
asciilifeform: they aint always visibly burst, but i'm inclined to think this wasn't the caps.
asciilifeform: ( or it wouldn't come back up. )
mircea_popescu: so to get this straight, your "most likely explanation" points to... ram failure resulting in kernel panic... twice ?
mircea_popescu: (i think the third reboot was actually you guise, or not ?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: jury's still out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 3 unsanctioned, 1 planned reset
mircea_popescu: always gotta have a mle, jury can't be out
asciilifeform: imho mle is still thermals.
mircea_popescu: ie, a fan stoppedf by itself, and then started working again, by itself ?
mircea_popescu: THRICE ?
asciilifeform: not necessarily stopped, but obstructed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: keep in mind this was a ben_vulpes-baked box, i never saw inside of it ( dulap-III, dulap-spare, s-mg, s-mg-spare -- i cleaned with own hands )
mircea_popescu: indulge me. so the theory goes that an event with a probability inferior to 1e-4 / day occured three times in two days ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this observation merely begs the question of "why".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: never had a clogged fan on your watch ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise, if you run it you own it.
asciilifeform: box runs till it doesn't, then behaves rather like this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did. let me tell you how it behaved : box went down. upon reboot it went down again, in the following manner : every time it was rebooted, within a finite time interval (bout an hour). no exceptions.
mircea_popescu: and then, when i went to clean it, i found it dirty ; as opposed to clean.
mircea_popescu: the case here seems to strike out on both of these.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didja happen to photo the internals when you opened ?
asciilifeform: what did it look like ?
mircea_popescu: photo or no photo. did you take your own weight in gunk out of the fans over there ?!
mircea_popescu: i ~also~ find it peculiar your dc wouldn't have alerted you in case of thermal trip. because in general they have sensors.
asciilifeform: waiwaat
asciilifeform: dc has nfi what temp is inside our box
mircea_popescu: the isle cooler tends to notice if rack x is spewing out 200C
asciilifeform: it wouldn't
asciilifeform: what's the temp 1m from a hot iron ? ~room.
asciilifeform: yer speaking of 'rack is on fire' case.
BingoBoingo: I took off a light layer of particulate. When I opened the chassis I found it matched the photos from when the FG were installed.
asciilifeform: an overheated cpu is only 50c away from a working one.
asciilifeform: ( and a cpu is a ~1g thermal mass. )
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is an academic discussion. in any case, i've had warnings re hot boxes from dcs before, it's not a wholly unheard of item. laser sensor costs ~nothing, and hvac management is 60% of what they do for a living.
asciilifeform: laser?!
mircea_popescu: w/e, the spot things.
asciilifeform: aimed at what ? the outside ? you'd need a bomb calorimeter and whole thing in transformer oil, to stand any chance of distinguishing a frying cpu from a working one through closed chassis
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if a dc were able to warn you re overheating cpu, they had root on yer box.
asciilifeform: ( and if this wasn't part of the deal you had with'em, oughta have a stern talk )
mircea_popescu: man. cpu doesn't overheat in a vacuum, gimme a break already.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i ~also~ find it peculiar your dc wouldn't have alerted you in case of thermal trip. because in general they have sensors. << There was a ground fault alarm tripped in the datacenterś fire supression system over the weekend, but the time doesn's line up with the beginning of this reset crisis.
asciilifeform: overheats when, for instance, 100cc/sec of air is being moved when wants 300.
mircea_popescu: you ever been in one of those parking lots where they have devices telling you how many free spots per isle/level, and red/green light above the individual spots ? without, magically, having a rod up your driver's ass.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do they log these somewhere ? how didja learn of it
mircea_popescu: same fucking thing is the case in ~every dc i eve rsaw, there's a line of sensors above the racks, and can tell whether box is working 30s, 40s or 70s
mircea_popescu: thermal trip is usually >70s or somesuch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'is 3 tonne auto here or not' is very diff problem from 'what temperature is the red hot nail inside this 30kg crate'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I asked. If you have some targeted questions I will be happy to ask them.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd be for ambient air. if yer ambient atmosphere is 70c, this is called 'room on fire'
asciilifeform: and the halon gets pumped.
mircea_popescu: there's a discrete flow of air from each rack that they measure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wouldja distinguish via 'flow of air from rack' 2 cpus at 50c ea. vs 1 at 0 and 1 at 100.
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: you'd just notice box went from spewing 50s to spewing 55s suddenly. or w/e.
asciilifeform: i thought we were discussing the outrageous howler that 'dc would warn if 1 box in a 42u has 1 chip 40c over temp'
mircea_popescu: not proposing this is foolproof or anything ; not strictly speaking ~impossible~ thermal trip went unnoticed.
asciilifeform: i'd like not to lose the orig thread, re whether box was interfered with.
asciilifeform: cuz that's a perfectly valid q.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what do you typically do with yours ? throw'em out after 1 peculiar reset ? 2 ?
mircea_popescu: depends what i use them for, yes.
asciilifeform: i recall there was a piece where mircea_popescu threw out a raid card
mircea_popescu: but yes, i run systems which had 0 unexpected reboots, and i've thrown out components / replaced / redesigned systems over unexpected reboots.
mircea_popescu: because what can you do,.
asciilifeform: there's the 'what used for' q also. i'm still at a loss, i'll admit, re what is to be gained even from root on a box hosting blogs.
asciilifeform: insert typos ?
mircea_popescu: but see, it only started once box ~hosts zncs~
BingoBoingo: And weechats. irissis
mircea_popescu: quite well snapped to the peculiar idiocy of a certain band of peculiar idiots.
asciilifeform: interesting
asciilifeform: i'd much rather folx did those on rk's..
mircea_popescu: i recall folks asking, and you saying ok, rather than "you know what... i don't even recall who made this kernel, maybe i remake it when i have time befgore oking this"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: box runs asciilifeform's kernel as of 9hr ago.
asciilifeform: ( going forward, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886856 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 16:48 asciilifeform: after we get to the bottom of UY1 issue, i'ma make sure that all iron owned by pizarro has asciilifeform-baked kernel in place.
mircea_popescu: do you suppose bios could benefit from a reflash ? if nothing else, to have thermal / crash logging as expected ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do. i actually bit my elbows after 1st expedition, that i did not include the necessary gear for this in the 1st crate.
asciilifeform: it is on the cargo manifest for 2nd.
mircea_popescu: "we dunno wtf happened, i guess to a certain mind events centered on jan 13th suspicious as fuck, we have a new kernel and we redid the bios just in case, dunno what more can be possibly done" is, or atleast i guess will have to be, acceptable.
asciilifeform: ( why needs gear ? because can flash even nao, but you want to get orig rom contents ~out~ 1st, for a good looking at. and then there is 'unbrick' event also. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: acceptable for nao , but i'm inclined to make 2nd expedition sooner rather than later.
asciilifeform: there's a list of itches that needs scratching and it got longer today.
asciilifeform: ( i suppose technically this is 4th expedition -- BingoBoingo orig pioneer, and then ben_vulpes . but asciilifeform's 2nd. )
asciilifeform: incidentally manifest actually includes 2 FG units ( pizarro-owned ) . i had to fly'em back in april , if anyone recalls, cuz of ben_vulpes's misadventure where they were pawed by orcs for whole night
asciilifeform: they show no signs of molestation, not only work to spec but rom untouched.
asciilifeform: i reflashed'em for good measure.
mircea_popescu: i don't expect they'd know what to do to those.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform nao has the necessary optics that for e.g. 'FG2' and fyootoor products, we can include signed board photos.
mircea_popescu: biosen, however... seems to be the favoured cunt.
BingoBoingo: I am inclined to get some sleep for the night. asciilifeform if you dream tonight of questions to pose to the datacenter re: their ground fault which mght be informative, please forward them.
mircea_popescu: nn.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma also sleep shortly, will letcha know if i wake up screaming with a wtf
asciilifeform: leaving the temp/voltage/etc item running ( and will run until further notice . )
asciilifeform bbl
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: When you book your ticket expect more Spanish/Spanglish because I haven't had a sustained spoken conversation in English since early December.
BingoBoingo: Before I tuck in I will say 3 is the lower bound for reset events. Based on mod6's original report I suspect more.
BingoBoingo: Aite, before I tuck in asciilifeform I'll gpggram you all the trivia observations from the weekend trips to the rack to digest with a rested brain.
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0XG9Q/?raw=true
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
lobbes: BingoBoingo: if it helps, I've noticed at least 4 resets (the top 4 results are my recent resets; times are in UTC) >> http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=Quits%3A+lobbes
BingoBoingo: lobbes: ty
hanbot: <asciilifeform> hanbot: when was 'this' plox ? << was my whim to start znc back up then after leaving it off for a ~day following http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886701 , no shenanigans implied. i suppose my wordchoice was unfortunate, sorry for alarms. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 01:17 mircea_popescu: doesn't that look suspicious.
mircea_popescu: check that out, they ~snap to the hour, too!
asciilifeform: meanwhile, box is up without any interesting observations
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: Sent 9 hours and 12 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0XG9Q/?raw=true
asciilifeform: guten morgen mircea_popescu hanbot et al
asciilifeform: lobbes: 4th was with my own hands, new kernel emplaced
mircea_popescu: heya
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i am thinking : let's consider giving all uy1 users an acct on the idle rk , until uy1 is replaced and moved to cold spare.
asciilifeform: they can put e.g. their znc there, at their option.
mircea_popescu: can a rk actually run all that ?!
asciilifeform: indeed can, it's a quite substantial box despite appearances.
asciilifeform: (4 cpu cores)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ~in addition~, rather than in place, of their current service, if it wasn't clear
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: this is not even a bad idea, turn iffy situation itno "help drive rk adoption".
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'd like to hit the idle Rockchip with another round of contact cleaning first, but this sounds like a plan.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to lemme know when ready, ty
asciilifeform: granted i haven't unearthed any direct evidence that uy1 is physically sad, of yet. but imho this is Right Thing.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will clean it this afternoon. Loving the marketing potential that yes, Rockchip will happily run many services so long as the RAM is minded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and disk.
asciilifeform: for lightweight processes (zncism etc) it's ideal.
asciilifeform: i'm still at a loss re why nobody makes rk, or for that matter any arm box, with upgradeable rams
asciilifeform: remains puzzler.
asciilifeform: ( really, ohnoez, socket costs fiddy cents too much ? )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : re uy1: if it continues humming along, as it presently appears to be, we gotta proclaim a maintenance window and properly stress test the thing, load cpu to max for coupla hrs
asciilifeform: i'd prefer to do this ~after~ the rk is made available to the affected folx.
BingoBoingo: This sounds like a plan.
asciilifeform: it is also time to speak of the next crate. and the customary four cargo slots. 1 is to contain a replacement for uy1 ( and ideally will run cuntoo . ) 1 will contain a 1u that holds rk's. this gives 2 1u slots remaining, they can be occupied by colo passengers, if these stand up and wish to ride , or pizarro irons, at BingoBoingo's option. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: why not get moar rks in there ?
mircea_popescu: they're not expensive, are they ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a rk + disk is about 100bux ea.
asciilifeform: they aint unspeakably expensive.
asciilifeform: a 1u can comfortably house 16, per my latest model.
asciilifeform: i'm averse to putting moar than that on 1 ps however.
asciilifeform: uy1 is bad enuff as 'central point of failure', would rather not create moar of'em.
asciilifeform: transport of crate aint exactly a mars mission, when we finally drum up demand and fill up the rk's, next crate can sail in short order.
mircea_popescu: a) there's nothing wrong with specialisation (and especially if you figure out how to expand the ram -- which a stock of these gives you incentive to do, ie, specialisation drives competence) ; ☟︎
mircea_popescu: b) the principal moneymaker for pizarro has been its booked stock of iron
mircea_popescu: c) unlike commodity gear, rk never gave you trouble.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is correct, without iron, no moneys
mircea_popescu: i meant, pizarro made more money as a financial vehicle, exploiting fx rates, than as an operator.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we did have some headache with the ssd, recall. the new models are in place ( iirc errrybody but mod6 has been swapped ) and seem to run cool to the touch, per BingoBoingo's observations
mircea_popescu: right.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: a rk + disk is about 100bux ea. << There's also a 4GB RAM model which would push the unit price up to ~150 each
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's include a certain number of these.
mircea_popescu: what are thery now, 1gb ?
asciilifeform: 2
BingoBoingo: 2GB
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the 2 seems the better deal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's why i bought'em
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: they gave unmatched 'bang per buck'
asciilifeform: afaik still unmatched anywhere.
asciilifeform: ( not even speaking of 'bang per watt' )
mircea_popescu: " this gives 2 1u slots remaining, they can be occupied by colo passengers, will carry rk plants otherwise"
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: that'll take your rk plant to 6 (extant) + 48 additional ?
asciilifeform: let's see if/what passengers appear in next week or two. after that, i'ma begin preparations for rk.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct
mircea_popescu: starting to sound like an isp.
mircea_popescu: needless to say, a "we're flyting over 50 rks, gotta fill these THAT WEEK, giving everyone 50% off for 3 months" media event / webhosting forum takeover / etc is de rigueur.
asciilifeform: iirc mod6 has expressed a desire to fly the next crate. if he still wants, can haz; otherwise asciilifeform will fly it. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: gotta prepare both ends of such things.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they gave unmatched 'bang per buck' << Especially when the MySQL storage engine is changed to the WP appropriate option
mircea_popescu: ~both ends~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: absolutely, the time to start beating the drums is nao.
mircea_popescu: have a nice sale page, clearly communicate what's going on, drive to it. what do you have, like 6 weeks ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc mod6 has expressed a desire to fly the next crate. if he still wants, can haz; otherwise asciilifeform will fly it. << Given the ben_vulpes courier run I would like mod6's first trip here to be lower stakes. Couriering is a skill.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think there will be such a thing as 'low stakes' trip, unless mod6 wants to take vacation on own coin
asciilifeform: a pizarro-sponsored flight must carry max weight.
BingoBoingo: Must carry max weight yes, but having more weight already racked does lower the stakes on subsequent trips.
asciilifeform: as for asciilifeform , can go in mid march at the earliest.
mircea_popescu: he has a point there.
mircea_popescu: so nine weeks ? ample time.
asciilifeform: and i'd really like, ideally, to not be the only one who knows how to do this.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo talk to the various webhosting forums etc (with whom you've build by now a relationship, yes ?) how much they want for a site takeover / w/e they do for the big deal advertising.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This time, don't saw your toothbrush. I can put together a reception basket with human sized toothbrush.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: don't sweat the small details, just nao
asciilifeform: the key end of the hose is the 1 mircea_popescu mentioned.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Will do.
mircea_popescu: and sell it like things are sold, atm it's "just a rumour", mentioned here and there, drums up on the usual human-experience-exponential and so on. "anti-usg hosting", come up with some catchy.
mircea_popescu: whole orchestra.
mircea_popescu: "hilary's worst nightmare", use the woman's picture all ugly or scared or w/e.
mircea_popescu: https://assets.rbl.ms/14235407/980x.jpg << no shortage o these.
BingoBoingo: Indeed
BingoBoingo: It's a relief to get the Pizarro conversation going again instead of having it stuck in just my head
mircea_popescu: all it takes is asking.
asciilifeform: oh hm where was that zombie fdr poster mircea_popescu dug up coupla yrs ago
asciilifeform: imho would also make for pretty great photolul for ad.
trinque: "fuck hillary" is way more relevant to your most likely customer.
asciilifeform: trinque has a point
asciilifeform: quite possibly the current gen of sadforum people, dun even know who was fdr.
trinque: the "alex jones" crowd is losing hosting left and right
asciilifeform: indeed
mircea_popescu: yeah, whining about how "red pillers" or w/e the fuck si the term de jour for inept morons/exterminators singing "i have seen the glory of the bloodletting at the zoo" while driving their beat up truck not reading is one thing. make pretty pictures is another thing.
asciilifeform: nao if they could also be persuaded to part with usg.dns... but i'd be satisfied to teach 'wash hands' , smallpox vaccination can happen after
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the first fucking move is to establish yourself as a domain expert.
asciilifeform: verily
mircea_popescu: PART of the reason for 2nd para of http://qntra.net/2019/01/el-chapo-allegedly-used-voip-had-sysadmin-flipped-by-criminal-fbi/ ie guzman hiring an inane moron with a reddit account, is that guzman didn't have how to hire pizarro.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm anticipating the whiners where 'you ~said~ you sell uncensored host, but they pulled my godaddy dns omfg!11' item
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is a Cristian Rodriguez anyway ?! might as well be schmuck mcsmith.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you explain it to them.\
mircea_popescu: let them whine here, i'll fucking explain it to them.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand , the guzman thing was even lulzier, d00d was hired to run the ~crypto~
asciilifeform: ( in the empty skullcase of the orc king, somehow made sense to have a hired hand run his pgptron.. )
mircea_popescu: where is he to learn better ?
mircea_popescu: "you should have gone with pizarro" "i did this in 2015, where was pizarro ?" "mkay."
mircea_popescu: amazon is fucked anyway, the time to break the usg.web is now.
mircea_popescu: "here, whole conclave of morons ~can do absolutely nothing~". even if you lose money, you lose money in a way they're worth losing.
BingoBoingo: "Starve Amazon/Google/SVCircus" copy tests well
asciilifeform brb,teatime
trinque: the "we slay incas" thing would do better with an explanation of wtf that means in-world
mircea_popescu: short explanation. and short words, in big thick font.
BingoBoingo: AHA
mircea_popescu: me shall bbl
BingoBoingo prepping for rack dive, excited by what follows
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in world of entomology, https://archive.is/bJyyo ( piece re 'douchebags', where '...their earnings are equally depressing. The top seven participants in the Facebook data set averaged 0.87 bugs per month, earning an average yearly salary of $34,255; slightly less than what a pest control worker makes in Mississippi.'
asciilifeform: and meanwhile, in sunken atlantises : j. von neumann, the afaik last fella to really invent anyffin in re kompyooting, actually devised an interesting application for fast unbiased rng ( which did not exist in his time ). can use it to multiply large numbers with near-total noise immunity, using only an 'and' gate and two comparators.
asciilifeform: you represent the inputs ( any # of'em ) via stochasticizers, i.e. each 1 gets a comparator that eats N bits of rng and outputs a 1 if they represent integer <= the currently latched binary number, 0 otherwise.
asciilifeform: then you feed'em all to a N-input AND gate.
asciilifeform: the output is n1 * n2 * ... n_n , cuz you represented'em as ~probabilities~ ☟︎
asciilifeform: then to get integers back out, you run the process in reverse, via another comparator. it converges to the desired answer in finite ( depending on rng quality ) clock ticks.
asciilifeform: why to do this, may seem a mystery, until realize that noise immunity means that you can use very fast logic elements , given as you aren't much concerned with 100% accuracy over small time period, only convergence.
asciilifeform: so in the end you can multiply e.g. 9000 8192bit ints, with a single gate.
asciilifeform: 1 of the reasons i put this in the l0gz is that when i went to dig, turned up that erry attempt to date to do sumthing nontrivial with 'stochastic multiplier' broke teeth against rng quality.
asciilifeform: ( if you have ~any correlation in the independent bitstreams , you won't converge . the academiderps tried to get around this by using constructed prng's, had the expected result -- buncha dead trees and 0 working devices )
asciilifeform: it's an interesting 'upside-down world', where, e.g., addition costs ~moar~ than multiplication ( i will leave as exercise, how it is done )
asciilifeform: ( in case it aint obvious , you gotta scale the #s, otherwise a even a 128bit multiplitron will take 'geological' time to output 1x1 )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in a quite hilarious conclusion to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887012 saga : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390&cpage=1#comment-19775 << yarvin throws in the towel. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 00:30 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in darkest lulzafrica, 'Today we’re happy to announce that Urbit’s address space, now called Azimuth, is live on the Ethereum blockchain... We want Urbit to be a reliable, durable, permanent computer that’s simple to use. Today Urbit is still a prototype, not a consumer product. But we’re making great progress'
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iXGlE/?raw=true << d00d's entire lulzpiece, snapshotted for the l0gz. ☟︎
asciilifeform: meanwhile, on uy1 , highest cpu temp recorded was 50c (10 hrs ago)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i am thinking we oughta install a simple mains voltage logger (i've witnessed in the past, brownouts which took out 1 box ( where current load at the moment happened to exceed what's in the ps caps ) while leaving dozen others untouched.. )
BingoBoingo: This could be informative
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma dig re price & where to get.
asciilifeform: fwiw i did notice, when peeked into other racks, that some folx had independent ups .
asciilifeform: ( unfortunately these are impractical to transport )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: on contemplation, this is yet another place where rk utterly wins -- it is possible to include a very compact source of backup power, survive fairly long brown/black-outs
BingoBoingo: Indeed
BingoBoingo: In other news I am satisfied the vacant rk is very clean. Our airflow sensor has also been blown out, tested and rehung on the front door.
asciilifeform: a++
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: we'll make accts on it by explicit request, from current subscribers of uy1
asciilifeform: ( invited to pgp ssh key + any particular reqs to BingoBoingo & asciilifeform ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: plox do ~not~ use same key as on uy1.
asciilifeform: rk is idea for low disk footprint items , e.g. znc.
asciilifeform: *ideal
asciilifeform: ^ this is addressed to all uy1 people, i will not list'em explicitly, they know who they are ^
BingoBoingo: Datacenter cat is also in good health putting fear into the flying rodents
asciilifeform: also a++
asciilifeform: upstack, gotta revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887223 >> there's no economic way to expand ram on an existing rk, it's similar to the proposition of adding cylinders to an existing bmw engine ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 15:37 mircea_popescu: a) there's nothing wrong with specialisation (and especially if you figure out how to expand the ram -- which a stock of these gives you incentive to do, ie, specialisation drives competence) ;
asciilifeform: thing brings out certain # of addr lines to the pcb, and nomoar
asciilifeform: ( and even if were spares -- whole thing is baked of bga ic, where even if you invest in reballing machine, you have good odds of thing never booting again if you move the bga )
asciilifeform: that being said, i'd quite like a rk-like box with expandable rams. but it aint happening on the current budget.
asciilifeform brb,teatime
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887308 << this is very elegant, earlier statement of the whole "optic crypto machine" thingee ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 17:36 asciilifeform: the output is n1 * n2 * ... n_n , cuz you represented'em as ~probabilities~
mircea_popescu: but tbh, the "stochastic convergence test" seems to me worth A LOT more than any bs "ent" ultimately meaningless "squares of pi" bs. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's a sort of m-r for rngs.
mircea_popescu: (ie, you can construct an infinity of rng strings which'll make a given sct "falsely" converge) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887318 << keks. good you got out while it was still worth money. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 18:21 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iXGlE/?raw=true << d00d's entire lulzpiece, snapshotted for the l0gz.
mircea_popescu re-read the comment section, from back in 2013, chuckled at random moron who perceived he can write himself the option to not engage mp saying things at him because (some variant of) "they do not display the right formalism" right smack drab in the middle of a discussion about some magical means for ~machines~ to recognize equivalent-formalisms through... magic.
mircea_popescu: stupid all the way down, what fucking turtles.
mircea_popescu: how ~the fuck~ is "nock" gonna identify-and-replace-with-jets when ginko417 is manifestly incapable of the very same task ? (or rather, for they psychologically inclined : WHY is it ginko417 imagines dealing with a jet is "nock"'s job ?) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: for exquisite bonus lulz, "jet" is what a romanian speaking slut would say to a romanian speaking drunk moron in a romanian speaking bar, meaning "get the fuck lost".
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887348 << better still , asciilifeform never ~paid~ any moneys for it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:13 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887318 << keks. good you got out while it was still worth money.
asciilifeform: ( 'paid' a weekend to solve that olympiad thing, was all )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887343 << it's hauntingly elegant, and since finding out about it asciilifeform whenever going to sleep thinks 'hmm, how wouldja mod-exp with stochastic..' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887308 << this is very elegant, earlier statement of the whole "optic crypto machine" thingee
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887347 << not only this, but to date no rng has actually sufficed (i.e. sufficiently independent bits) to make the thing go in reasonable time ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:10 mircea_popescu: (ie, you can construct an infinity of rng strings which'll make a given sct "falsely" converge)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887345 << this is how i dug it up, actually ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:09 mircea_popescu: but tbh, the "stochastic convergence test" seems to me worth A LOT more than any bs "ent" ultimately meaningless "squares of pi" bs.
asciilifeform: ( and no it aint in 'ent' or 'diehard' or in afaik any pc rng tester, it moar or less demands fpga )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887352 << thing was broken on moar or less erry possible level, not only in the arithmetical model ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:27 mircea_popescu: how ~the fuck~ is "nock" gonna identify-and-replace-with-jets when ginko417 is manifestly incapable of the very same task ? (or rather, for they psychologically inclined : WHY is it ginko417 imagines dealing with a jet is "nock"'s job ?)
asciilifeform: ( recall the 'i explicitly dun want it to resemble bitcoin!' item, which then seamlessly morphed into 'we have merged with ethertardium' with somehow straight face )
asciilifeform: 'A bunch went to contest winners who solved a trivial Nock problem in 2010.' << didjaknow, trivial
asciilifeform: btw didja know, mircea_popescu , that yarvin has an rsatron in there ? possibly will be remembered as the only rsatron gnarlier/buggier than kochs's, or even microshit's
asciilifeform: i take a kind of perverse entomological interest in sad rsatrons. ( e.g.: bolix, interestingly, had a -- nonconstant time, of course -- bignum stack, but at least it was reasonably compact.. )
asciilifeform: 'No one else ever built a purely functional operating system' incidentally also false, the haskell people tried ('house') , with the expected result ( i won't detail, literate reader can guess )
asciilifeform: 'What will I do personally? I'll spend more time with my kids. I'll finish reading my 1911 Britannica – I am only on the B's. I have no other long-term plans. ... I am leaving not just the project but the field – no less than Satoshi, or Everett, or Rimbaud ... Will Satoshi weigh in on the next Bitcoin Cash fork? Did Rimbaud fly back from Ethiopia ...' << evidently d00d at least 'took the money and ran'. seems to have worked appr
asciilifeform: ox as well as it did for esr tho, his www already for year or 2 contains a begtron
asciilifeform: 'Nock, Hoon and Arvo didn't really rely on anything from 20th-century CS' << lol, aside from coupla GB of unix/c liquishit, and half a GB of ~own~ c liquishit..
asciilifeform: i'ma leave the rest uncommented, there aint much to add i
asciilifeform: mho.
asciilifeform: err, i can't resist a few monumental laffs :
asciilifeform: 'Urbit does not use the lambda calculus, an environment or symbol table, or linking. Because it pushes name resolution out of the fundamental interpreter and up into the language, it can play many more namespace juggling tricks. And its build system has no trouble including multiple versions of the same library.' << didjaknow this were a feature?!
asciilifeform: that somebody would ~want~ ?!
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform didnt.. )
asciilifeform: or how about 'Long-term permanence means you can put your ship on a USB stick in a box for 50 years, or 100, or 500, and when you turn it on in a modern interpreter it will upgrade itself and work fine.' << upgrade itself!
asciilifeform: or take 'Permanence also includes security. Except for the on-chain PKI, in which case you're trusting Ethereum, you shouldn't yet trust Urbit's security at all. Sorry!'
asciilifeform: typical dog who shat on the floor, has moar remorse than this fella.
asciilifeform: pons & fleischmann imho are models of respectability compared with yarvin. ( and wasted 9000x less time of thinking folx.. )