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asciilifeform: on top of this, if you actually carry out a diff stream of instructions for 2047 and 2048, you leak the bitness of the integer under test.
asciilifeform: which is a nogo.
asciilifeform: gcd(x, primorial) gotta use same instructions when x = 0, 1, ... as when it equals 2^ffawidth - 1 .
mircea_popescu: dude, why is every little thing such a fucking uphill struggle with you. suppose you wish to see if x is coprime with the number 2. you run gcd (x, 2). suppose then you wish to also see if x is coprime with the number 3. you run gcd(x, 3). all this is EXACTLY EQUIVALENT to running gcd (x, 6) : if this returns 2, it was not coprime with 2, and if it returns 3, it was not coprime with 3.
mircea_popescu: since your best gcd algo seems to be one that expects x and 6 be same bitness, there's nothing wrong with making a buncha prefab such products-of-primes.
mircea_popescu: then test against them.
asciilifeform: this much is correct, and why i have gcd to begin with. right nao i have a modified stein that goes in constanttime.
asciilifeform: orig q was whether it is possible to improve the constant factor of stein.
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion was re daykin, specifically that for our particular usecase, it's not the end of the world that it wants "napkin numbers" : we enjopy the luxury whereby we can construct them to measure.
asciilifeform: it is used to take gcd(x, primorial(currentwidth)) , and if it dun equal 1 or x , then x is 'cheaply known composite' .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you gotta do multiple calls to gcd to take gcd(x, primorial) you lose the win from using gcd.
asciilifeform: whole point is that it tests for divisibility by million small primes in 1 pull of trigger.
mircea_popescu: possibly. that's not clear, nor was it ever discussed before now. it MAY BE that a dozen calls of gdc-daykin(x, daykin-primorial) are in fact cheaper than 1 call to gdc-stein(x, primorial(currentwidth)).
mircea_popescu: it all depends on the quadratic and parameters etc.
asciilifeform: and yes it is possible to daykin with a hardcoded list of primorials, 1 for each possib bitness. the issue aint even that you gotta keep around e.g. 8192 primorials; ( you do, they can't be sliced ) , but that it leaks the bitness of X .
mircea_popescu: the bitness of x is already leaked : 2048.
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: the factual bitness
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: which can be e.g. 1, or 17, etc
asciilifeform: ( index of highest 1 bit )
mircea_popescu: what ?
mircea_popescu: all our factors are 2048 bits per spec.
asciilifeform: bitness in the FZ_Measure sense of the word.
asciilifeform: of X !
asciilifeform: not of the primorial ( 'Y' if you will )
mircea_popescu: this wasn't a rsa genprime application ?
asciilifeform: of the unknown integer being tested.
asciilifeform: it is, and x is a random string from rng
mircea_popescu: the "unknown integer" being tested IS ALWAYS 2048 BITS.
asciilifeform: why, cuz you pegged the high bit ?
mircea_popescu: cuz im not going to have non-2048 factors in my 4086 bit rsa key, wtf.
asciilifeform: remember, gcd will be an exposed operator, 'G' . can be used for ~anything~ .
asciilifeform: simply so happens that it is also needed for rsa primegen.
asciilifeform: this is the montgomery thread replayed
asciilifeform: no canhaz montgomery, cuz modexp gotta work for ALL ints.
asciilifeform: same here.
mircea_popescu: i thought this entire discussion was a) specifiucally as to daykin (not to stein) and b) specifically as to primegen for rsa secret key baking, (not "in general math functions).
asciilifeform: tho i finally see what mircea_popescu was getting at earlier re daykin.
asciilifeform: yes , you can do this is if all you want gcd for is primegen.
asciilifeform: so happens that it is needed as a general-purpose knob tho.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, i guess daykin gcd can exist as a class, native or extended, w/e.
mircea_popescu: nobody is going to hate your ffa if it includes montgomery, with the proper warning. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: (whole thing already comes with a "nozero" rule anyways)
asciilifeform: anyway i suspect that i'm overmassaging this particular piece, most of cost of primegen will be in m-r regardless of how i bake gcd.
mircea_popescu: prolly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nonzero rule is elementarily cuz you cant div0.
asciilifeform: btw iirc apeloyee had a comment re 'why do you want to gcd(x, primorial), why dontcha generate a random x and multiply it by primorial + 1 '
asciilifeform: i can't recall why i barfed tho, nao i gotta dig out the notes...
asciilifeform: oh hm i recall nao. ( it was because operator 'P' wants to be a general-purpose primality test, valid for any input whatsoever that fits in the ffawidth, rather than simply 'generate prime' )
asciilifeform: ( why this is, is because for certain types of pubkeycrypto, you want to test adjacent nums for primality. rsa in particular. )
mircea_popescu: i don't get it how you expect to multiply some value by a (product of primes +1) and not get an even number.
asciilifeform: grr nao i gotta find the orig statement, which wasn't obv. broken
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu is elementarily correct here )
asciilifeform: aah it was x * (primorial) + 1 obv.
asciilifeform: not x * (primorial + 1 ) lol
mircea_popescu: and this is... an even number.
asciilifeform: as in euclid's proof-there-aint-a-last-prime.
mircea_popescu: behold,
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 7 * 11 +1
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 78
asciilifeform: 7 or 11 is a primorial ?!
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 3 * (5*7*11*13*17)+1
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 255256
asciilifeform: ok this dunwork, i'ma have to pull out the orig item
mircea_popescu: well this was entertaining, bbl.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722402 << oook here it was. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:48 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem
asciilifeform: not particularly relevant to the problem of general-purpose isPrime() tho, so i'ma put it back on shelf for nao.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1884935 << i actually considered to have 'if low bit is 0 - i.e. N is even -- then montgomery, otherwise barrett' but what this does is break constanttimeism of modexp -- nao you broadcast the parity of N for whole planet, cuz entirely diff execution profiles for the 2 algos. and montgomery is at the very most a 10% revvup over barrett. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 00:08 mircea_popescu: nobody is going to hate your ffa if it includes montgomery, with the proper warning.
asciilifeform: ( and if you montgomery, then you gotta either test whether gcd(N, modulus) == 1 , or ~assume~ , the latter is a mine that user will step on. unlike div0ism , it is not an inexpensive test . )
mircea_popescu: i dunno why you barfed ; but i barfed because it's fucking stupid, you lose a lot of variety in your primes for no gains worth the mention.
mircea_popescu: and i meant include barret ~as an optional~, like a callable function.
mircea_popescu: since you're doing this "general purpose", there's no crime if user can call montgomery.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: barrett is the 1 that actually works for all integers without restricted domain.
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: so , my spec was 'all operators do The Right Thing arithmetically, and program stops if you demand div0' , like yer cpu does.
asciilifeform: rather than 'watch out, be sure that you constructed right inputs, or you might get soup'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'lose variety of primes' was my objection to using wholly-constructed primes. rather than in prelude to m-r .
asciilifeform: ( apeloyee originally proposed it as substitute for primality testing per se; where it elementarily constricts the domain of possible primes, and is unacceptable per my lights )
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: anyway, nothing wrong with that ffa design choice, if you like it ; if you don't anymore, also not the end of world.
asciilifeform: upstack, i'ma polish off stein, and see if the lily in fact needs gilding ~after~
asciilifeform: rather than to hold up orchestra for its gilding.
asciilifeform: ( as for the other thing -- much of asciilifeform's oddball 'must work for all integers!' thrust, is on acct of his interest in cryptosystems other than classic rsa, e.g. c-s and variations on theme )
asciilifeform: c-s actually has 1 interesting win over good old rsa -- it dun need a hash padtron
asciilifeform: but this is a diff thread, possibly.
asciilifeform: ( and at any rate we gotta have trad rsa working 1st, before any such side dishes can be considered )
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: i'm carrying out mircea_popescu's orig spec, where 'i want a peh key with my rsa modulus that i carved on the mountain' or how it went.
mircea_popescu: just note that eucrypt having rsa does in no manner hurt your serpent-only-phonecrypto putative app ; just like it having serpent dun hurt a "this is my pgp implementation" usecase, and so on.
asciilifeform: right. whole affair is 'what's the most general arithmetron that is also a useful rsatron', from my pov.
mircea_popescu: libraries, definitionally, contain functionality some end users won't use.
asciilifeform: correct. ( i'ma include jacobi operator, after thing is flying in the field, even tho none of the currently popular schemes use it, for instance. )
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: ideally , one'll be able to implement any crypto scheme without having to rip into the ada; simply by writing pcode.
asciilifeform: at ~that~ juncture it'll be possible to ~hardwarize~ the thing, into the ultimate (per horse's mouth) usg nightmare.
asciilifeform: ( i.e usefully general-purpose cryptotron. )
asciilifeform: i.e. that 8192-bit cpu mircea_popescu gedankenexperimented.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: it'll be quite a riot, i expect, when the problem for enemy of determining what to do with ~an unknown pubkey~ is suddenly np-hard.
asciilifeform: ( suddenly, 'which of these bigints do we need to try and factor, and which are noise' becomes an open human-powered q ! for'em. )
asciilifeform: it took asciilifeform 2y ( 3, if you count the mpi dead ends ) to build ~that~ deathray. and it's just about ready to fire..
asciilifeform: i can picture, for instance, that some folx will have a pubkey where 'well, first you gotta decrypt via these 2 rsa keys, and depending on the low 4 bits of the plaintext, the rest is via 1 of these 4 c-s' or the like.
asciilifeform: the problem of even beginning to break, becomes , from empty space, exponential.
asciilifeform: ( of course it also becomes possible to blow out yer own brains by misconstructing a pubkey, but this is a problem that existed before me and will exist after )
asciilifeform: and this is before you even consider that the plaintext itself can be pcode...
mircea_popescu: finally some actual movement in teh damned horses.
asciilifeform: imho yes. actually using 'we have a comp' for sumthing tangible.
asciilifeform: ( in this case, to make enemy have to sweat to simply determine ~what cryptosystem~ particular key is for.. )
asciilifeform: let'em 'ai' or whatever. haruspicy. necromancy.
mircea_popescu: "them" keks.
mircea_popescu: what fucking them. the ~pretense~ is entirely based on cheapness. no cheapness, no pretense.
asciilifeform: for all values of 'thems', present, future.
mircea_popescu: same exact reason preteen boys don't discuss their "sexual conquests" within hearshot of adult woman.
asciilifeform: stupidity, as mircea_popescu pointed out in the old essay, 'has infinite health'
mircea_popescu: i don't recall any villein serfs going around derping about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884205 / http://trilema.com/2014/agency-and-other-notes/#selection-31.0-31.271 five centuries ago. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-03 19:24 stratum: Right now, for the billions, I think it is probably better than nothing, just like easily popped household locks.
asciilifeform: 5 no , 2 yes
asciilifeform: ( even 5 maybe -- hussites ? )
asciilifeform: or hm, who were the derps on mountain fort with 'equalite liberte'...
asciilifeform: cathars ?
asciilifeform: that sorta thing is always there, somewhere, like polio.
mircea_popescu: closer to southern france resistence to growing crown than anything in the derp vein, but why not./
asciilifeform: there's 'resistance' but then there's 'кто был ничем тот станет всем'(tm)(r), former dun necessarily roll in the latter
asciilifeform: i suppose if archaeologizing re the latter, oughta start at spartacus..
Mocky: I just hit double digit grand kids
Mocky: and number 11 is in the oven
asciilifeform: congrats Mocky
asciilifeform: coincidentally, i nailed garbage panda #11 today.
asciilifeform: ( http://bimbo.club/#footnote_6_114 << them )
asciilifeform: ( not nearly as sisyphian work as may seem, 1 good hunt removes infestation for 2-3 month )
Mocky: to bring it full circle, I saw one of my grandsons yesterday watching a cartoon about how helpful raccoons are for eating trash so less waste goes to the land fill, and how clean and friendly they are ☟︎
Mocky: was hoping to see a russian d00d shoot at them from a window, but no, instead the raccoons went down to the creek after dinner to wash their paws
BingoBoingo: If only there were a way to get the locals to put the reject trash back in the dumpster when they finish mining
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885027 << oblig >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-11#1015606 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 03:35 Mocky: to bring it full circle, I saw one of my grandsons yesterday watching a cartoon about how helpful raccoons are for eating trash so less waste goes to the land fill, and how clean and friendly they are
a111: Logged on 2015-02-11 06:58 BingoBoingo: A viewer complained that an episode of the animated children’s series Peppa Pig was inappropriate for an Australian audience because it said that spiders were not to be feared. >> http://about.abc.net.au/complaints/peppa-pig-received/
asciilifeform: 'tis said that in gringolandia there's a steady stream of rabies cases from some derp who hand-feeds 'cute furry' shitpanda
asciilifeform: ( fox is rare here, so the primary reservoir of the virus is instead this )
asciilifeform: nicoleci aint wrong, btw, they'll walk right up to you.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, as you have observe the local trash digging critters here in the Oriental Republic are more skittish than the panda vermin.
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/01/06/pizarro-update-january-6th-2019-november-and-december-2018-statements/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro Update January 6th, 2019 - November and December 2018 Statements
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884619, I worked on arm-ification of the UDP lib, this is done but write up is stuck. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:32 mircea_popescu: ave1 is, i suspect, silently working on gnating things -- which is fine and valuable except for the silently part. there's this tendency of lone wolf scientist to not properly report failures, out of an imaginary saving of time and resources this permits. it must be said that NOTHING could be further from the truth, nothing at all -- there's more to be gained from a properly reported failure to find than out of ten shiny succ
mircea_popescu: what happened to it ?
auctionbot: Sell order # 1033: 500 wired filthy fiats (WU) Heard: 140mn from BingoBoingo. Ending: 2019-01-07 08:15:26.113976 UTC (38 hours 46 mins)
ave1: well arm part works, but I wanted to do some more experimenting with how the call the asm, as register allocation cannot be specified in GNAT ☟︎
mircea_popescu: aha
ave1: adding register allocation to gcc turned out to be too gnarly for this round
ave1: so, yes, failure
ave1: needs a write-up
ave1: other thing is the ebuild script for gnat
ave1: for cuntoo in gnat
mircea_popescu: it is ~very~ useful to explain how things like this blew up, in writing. both for others today and for you tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: i know it seems like a waste of time on the spot, the first time.
mircea_popescu: it's a false impression.
ave1: I have installed previous cuntoo versions, but have no machine free at the moment and I concluded from early reports here in the log that it did not work yet, so I postponed this work.
mircea_popescu: Mocky a lot of the femstate's "solutions" to problems consist of this sorta acceptance bs. about as unsuprising as biology can ever get. ☟︎
ave1: About reporting failures, the reporting itself was also failing, but I will pick this up.
ave1: Time wise, my last job ended in december and I started new job this year. Both finish- and start-up demand(ed) more time than I had earlier foreseen.
mircea_popescu: how these things go.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884834 << i like the elk hunting theory, but i actually had a flu the past week ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 16:40 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884626 << i suspect phf is hunting elk in kamchatka, or similar , atm ( i.e. still waiting for http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=ffa refresh , so i dun think he's been at console much recently )
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, and 13 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf ch. 14b into http://btcbase.org/patches , ty !
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884626 << i wasn't meditating, i just don't have the mental energy to defend myself. i'm in russia primarily to take care of my grandmother who has dementia, and she was in a pretty critical state when i got here. i'm sure it'll stabilize, but as of right now i don't trust myself to have rational conversations around sensitive subjects online. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:38 mircea_popescu: so, phf : how about you start clearly communicating yourself, beginning with a complete, correct and true to life adnotation of said discussion in your own hand, because this "ima go meditate on things until everyone involved forgot what i was meditating on" isn't a workable approach to intellectual life.
phf: i have nothing to dispute in the thread or in the consecutive conversations that i wasn't part of. for one, i think i lost my shit (i'm sure week 2 of grandmother also didn't help), because the very first mp reaction was the whole deal, with my role and the outcomes being immediately obvious: i made amorphous promises outside of the republic, and then attempted to badly navigate around them, with the inevitable result. trinque's
phf: "talking past each other" comment was on point, i don't know about asciilifeform, but i was just shouting.
phf: i don't see sharing of parts, or the whole with asciilifeform under whatever terms, etc. irrespective of what will be done as resolving anything: i made original promises in good faith, and i'll be breaking them. my ideas of how to work around that were idiotic and in retrospect that was an obvious mistake, which ftr asciilifeform avoided by refusing any kind of dealings. on the other hand the point
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881941 was previously lost on me, so my committment outlay is a given, with the inevitable conclusion of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881910 i figured that out before the tmsr conversation, so the whole thing was just a public reveal of my idiocy, salt on the wound if you will ☝︎☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:37 mircea_popescu: the very substance of http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ is ~specifically~ DO NOT MAKE saeculum promises, it will bar you from republican life.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:24 mircea_popescu: i am however NOT dealing with people who have your sort of committment outlay.
phf: i agree that the secrecy approach doesn't work, i wasn't the driver behind it, i was skeptical about it, but i wanted to see it play out, and it failed spectacularly. i did the relevant manual labor and promised not to share what i got out of it. and yes if i thought about it, the blood oath puts me in the position of the very same whisperers, where whatever i have i can't make use of. my vague comments about old men and gold chests are ☟︎
phf: the result of reflecting on the idiocy of the whole secrecy approach: i basically got suckered by promises of future great reveals, did free work while also locking myself into the selfsame structure. ☟︎
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884837 << remote work, but you also have to remember that i moved away much later in life than you did, i have a very large meat wot here ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 16:44 asciilifeform: i admit that i'm at least a little curious how phf finally managed escape velocity from the bigzone, but if he doesn't feel like spilling re subj, also won't cry.
phf: asciilifeform: also snarfed ☟︎
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884636 << if i put that at the top of the free time work list i can get it out fairly fast, but i think keccak regrind that diana_coman is blocked by comes before that anyway ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 15:10 asciilifeform: err, bin ~delete~ knob
mircea_popescu: phf i'm not going to pass in silence over the obvious "check it out, there's no women in phf's fambly, he's taking care of the last one by own hand" comment ~because~ i like you.
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously your apparent "escape to russia" was just deeper capture ; yes obviously your attempt at corrupting teh fiat backfired. things will continue to work this way for you for as long as you continue acting like a woman, because biology works a certain way and everything else is driven by that and that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: nor am i going to congratulate mocky on his downstream spawncount ; and also because i like him. spawning is a biological function of women, as remarkable as taking a meal, and the day ima start congratulating people for drawing breath is the day i have no further need of myself.
mircea_popescu: the reason i wrote http://trilema.com/2018/patriarchy-vs-matriarchy-the-straight-dope/ wasn't that i was bored that day ; or that i don't like people. for as long as you continue thinking your value is established by some woman, you will continue having the same ~type~ of problems. they can be colored any way you like, and lives can readily be spent in that coloring exercise ; but as far as substance is concerned they will be
mircea_popescu: what they will be and precisely naught else.
mircea_popescu: the sad part, and a problem very much in the vein of the http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-111.0-121.824 duality, is that men ~ARBITRARILY~ deciding to live in a matriarchy doesn't merely fuck over them ; it fucks over everyone, now the females of your generation are stuck living in the same shit whether they want to or not ; because unlike your case, there's exactly jack shit ~they~ can do about
mircea_popescu: it. hence all the lashing out.
mircea_popescu: as a factual matter, there's nothing you can say to keloid. it's made out of cells and cells are deterministic mechanisms. societal scar tissue however is the result of ~deliberate choice~ that is then just as deliberately hidden from the self ; not of some sort of complicated protein signalling.
mircea_popescu: all that said, there's no bad blood here. i have infinite time (in the sense that the republic is eternal, not in the sense that i've been around for seven milennia or thereabouts) and every boy has to take his own fucking journey to his eventual himself. for as long as you can continue speaking the truth you're perfectly welcome here, as everyone ever is ; the magic of the workings of the log permit us a luxury no men knew b
mircea_popescu: efore -- that is, zero-cost shouting ; (the bounty of that experience also readily provides us with a luxury no woman knew before -- that is, zero-cost defloration, the experience of the "significant" cost of expression as perceived afore the fact dissolving into nothingness with the consummation, "what a big deal writing this blogpost was going to be that it didn't turn out to be after all") ; and so following.
mircea_popescu: eat, pray, love, or how did that go.
asciilifeform: ha, mircea_popescu woke up 1st!
asciilifeform: guten morgen mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps he'll at least inherit the flat...
mircea_popescu: that was the most odessa jew thing you ever yet said.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885072 << danke schon, phf. and i aint gonna kick you when yer down, we can always come back to the thread laters. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 09:47 phf: asciilifeform: also snarfed
asciilifeform: hey phf, does the left switch on your cst billiard ball seem muffled vs the right ? i can't decide if mine's defective or not, just noticed last night.. ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885069 << i'll take off hat ; realizing this mistake is perhaps 1st step from alchemist to chemist ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 09:42 phf: the result of reflecting on the idiocy of the whole secrecy approach: i basically got suckered by promises of future great reveals, did free work while also locking myself into the selfsame structure.
asciilifeform: ( and it's a correctable mistake, but again we can come back to this laters. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i woke up at night with the following wtf : you can actually make ~any~ gcdtron converge in same steps as stein's, cuz any time the buffer is even, you can shift it right (unshared factor of 2); and then when you add (or subtract) these odds, you get another even ( and can do it again ) etc.
asciilifeform: so theoretically can have a steinized daykin ( it remains to be sweated out whether this is moar economical than stein, i'ma get to it today ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885042 << this'll be handy when i get to asmized variant of inner muls in ffa. looking forward to reading ave1's piece. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 05:26 ave1: well arm part works, but I wanted to do some more experimenting with how the call the asm, as register allocation cannot be specified in GNAT
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885070 << neato. ( asciilifeform also remotes, but asciilifeform's meatwot is economically ~useless naodays, and so asciilifeform lives under eternal damocle's sword of ending up like mocky . ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 09:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884837 << remote work, but you also have to remember that i moved away much later in life than you did, i have a very large meat wot here
asciilifeform: ( e.g. in 2016, i spent >6mo rowing on a loathesomely usgistic slave galley, while in search of new remote )
asciilifeform: and was dead in the water, from tmsr pov, the whole time
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876254 , aka 'butugychag' ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 03:07 asciilifeform: zx2c4: you may find it interesting to learn that i once worked in a dour 'salt mine' where shat out 'correctness proof' all day. in 'sage.'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885053 << recall the infamous rat temples of india.. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 05:29 mircea_popescu: Mocky a lot of the femstate's "solutions" to problems consist of this sorta acceptance bs. about as unsuprising as biology can ever get.
asciilifeform: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~akerr/socrates/personal/rats.html << subj. ☟︎
asciilifeform bbl,tea
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885065 << if anyone is curious, in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863563 : there's a very strict and very obvious distinction between the ~types~ of promises ; typified by the "forever &ever" coda of imperial bullshit. my slaves serve ~at will~, which is to say until i get tired of one and not a moment longer. there's no security available, offered or contemplated. compare an ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 09:41 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881941 was previously lost on me, so my committment outlay is a given, with the inevitable conclusion of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881910 i figured that out before the tmsr conversation, so the whole thing was just a public reveal of my idiocy, salt on the wound if you will
a111: Logged on 2018-10-18 17:42 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863546 >> if this is true then "you're not smart enough be here" is as meaningful as "not telepathic enough"
mircea_popescu: d contrast this with "marriage vows" or whatever bullshit in this vein.
mircea_popescu: saeculum promises include the unpromiseable so regularily as to naturally create the suspicion it's deliberate.
mircea_popescu: so the idea of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881910 isn't as much "don't make promises to people outside the walls" ; it's rather "don't make the ~sort of promises~ they make outside the walls ; but if you're too young to know the difference don't make any at all". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:24 mircea_popescu: i am however NOT dealing with people who have your sort of committment outlay.
mircea_popescu: "being in legal trouble" is generally a decent first order approximation of that youth. (not that the empire isn't abusing imagignarly "legal process" to attempt to wage war and other such bs, but i guarantee you nobody targetted some schmuck selling fireworks in rural bumfuck because of his roger ver-ness.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193607 << this makes for a pretty lulzy re-read, in the context of the meanwhile better fleshed out notions of structure and trees and whatnot. isn't it obvious, asciilifeform , that the ~substantial difference~ is not at all the "head rng" but simply the extension and especially quality of the conceptual trees involved ? the "head v" so to speak ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-07-08 19:34 ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'
BingoBoingo: In other news... amazing how comment spam shifted from viagra to... http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LvP1y/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4YRQW/?raw=true << meanwhile this is what a myspace pageload looks like these days (they call it "facebook" but it's the same "valuable" nonsense by&for morons turner used to make a small fortune out of a large one)
asciilifeform: lol what is that, 50MB ?
mircea_popescu: just the sheer insanity of the js loading model. who the fuck can't put it all in one file ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what sense could https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3iY9E4/yK/l/en_GB/dDLzd487PGS.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3ikjf4/yA/l/en_GB/K0iGBg8ivhO.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3iMCU4/ys/l/en_GB/RmcHbNGMVjA.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3i61e4/yC/l/en_GB/QZPZBXTN_4g.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3iVop4/y5/l/en_GB/p37HdZ_jKzM.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3iRN04/y0/l/en_GB/u
mircea_popescu: GPoR8851vS.js https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yd/r/oy09kyys2-h.js POSSIBLY fucking make ?
asciilifeform: y'know, not only it never made much sense when written, but they put it through mungers also
asciilifeform: can't exactly put rowhammer.js where errybody'll ~see~ it, lol
mircea_popescu: "dDLzd487PGS.js" is 718514 bytes ; "uGPoR8851vS.js" is 730348 bytes. this is just a SECTION
mircea_popescu: there's never been, since the origin of the world, cause or use for a full 100kb of js. what fucking 730k, there's not that much to say in that scriptlang.
asciilifeform: for comparison, ada sores of ch14 ffa, incl. comments, weighs ~300kB
mircea_popescu: much like "all that needs to be, or can be expressed in redskin tongue takes <1 page, which is why they don't need writing, can remember a page"
BingoBoingo: lol, I actually had occasion to hear Incan language last week.
mircea_popescu: any good jokes ?
BingoBoingo: Hard to tell. ~half the conversation was in spanish. Girl's dad made a phone call because he went into the city as he does from time to time.
BingoBoingo: Apparently there's no phones up in Llama herding country
mircea_popescu: maybe they eat the towers.
asciilifeform: mountains 'eat' towers.
mircea_popescu: god knows goats eat shirts. maybe llamas eat sheet metal
asciilifeform: sorta why darkest africa has gsm , but not inca
BingoBoingo: Possible, Goats are know to eat sheet metal and Llamas are big goats in hairy armor
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885123 << it's deliberate. they fiddle'em regularly, and section'em so the unfiddled bits stay cached ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 16:55 mircea_popescu: just the sheer insanity of the js loading model. who the fuck can't put it all in one file ?
mircea_popescu: i would be utterly surprised if this worked at all.
mircea_popescu: i expect what really is going on is that they have half dozen copies of the "same" lib, diff versions, w/e, and they load them all i nthe hopes one works.
asciilifeform: i dunno how one'd even begin to answer the q of 'whether it works'. what even means 'works' when referring to the anthill.
mircea_popescu: cuz whenever they hire a new "engineer" he just dumps more code in the pub and that's it, "he fixed things"
asciilifeform: ( does it spawn new anthills ? apparently does. do the ants survive winter ? sadly also apparently yes )
asciilifeform: and yes they keep 9000 copies of 'same' lib.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cuz whenever they hire a new "engineer" he just dumps more code in the pub and that's it, "he fixed things" << AHA Heathen WP Pluginisms
asciilifeform: 'foolib #3133 worx with barlib #4331 last we knew' and so on
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in femventures: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/esta-escuela-de-rugby-y-merendero-fue-robada-34-veces-en-seis-meses-201915193311
BingoBoingo: Yes, in Angloland "escuela de Rugby" might imply something vagualy masculine, but here... It's old women trying to save little boys from futbol
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885068 << for my curiosity, was that labour anything like nicoleci 's ph trans[actions] trans[cribing] ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 09:42 phf: i agree that the secrecy approach doesn't work, i wasn't the driver behind it, i was skeptical about it, but i wanted to see it play out, and it failed spectacularly. i did the relevant manual labor and promised not to share what i got out of it. and yes if i thought about it, the blood oath puts me in the position of the very same whisperers, where whatever i have i can't make use of. my vague comments about old men and gold chests are
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc he described it: agreed to go to indiana jones warehouse and manually photograph manuscripts
mircea_popescu: a a right.
diana_coman: does anybody know whether/how can I use Ada task types from C/CPP code? afaik from GNAT docs there isn't a way to export task types as such
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what wouldja even ~do~ with ada task type from cpp ?
asciilifeform: you can't signal it, or do anyffin else useful to it, there
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phf is 9000x moar genius spy than asciilifeform , evidently -- i tried 9000 ways to sweet-talk dks into 'lemme into that warehouse', summed to 0
asciilifeform: for that matter, i never even was able to learn where it was ( to any moar precision than 'hbomb radius' )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the concrete mess is this: smg_comms is in Ada, has sender and receiver task types so one can create those as needed, perfect; onth eulora client is this ball of CPP mess and it's unclear to me if it can even be made to use smg comms as it is or what
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can , but i suspect you'll need glue
asciilifeform: ( i.e. ada knobs that are ordinary procedures and can be fired from the cpp )
asciilifeform: or, vice-versa, import and fire the necessary cpp knobs from the ada.
diana_coman: in the vein of "fork in cpp and from that thread call Ada proc that then spawns tasks"?
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman already is quite well-versed in the subj from baking eucrypt
asciilifeform: why wouldja need to fork in cpp if you have ada tasks ? make the cpp coad reentrant and call it from the tasks
diana_coman: mainly because the whole thing is anyway only one thread of the mess as it were; but yes, reentrant should work too
asciilifeform: diana_coman: admittedly i dun know enuff about your proggy to say whether it is possible to make ada piece 'prime mover'
diana_coman: ugh, I was rather hoping I was just thick and not getting it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you 'de-thread' the cpp item, you can call its knobs from ada task. is what i meant 'reentrant'.
asciilifeform: then you dun need to try an' pry open the internal structure of ada task to somehow fiddle it from inside cpp.
asciilifeform: it's what i'ma do to trb after i solve the mmap thing.
diana_coman: myeah, all sorts of practical restrictions to consider here; I just wanted to make sure I'm not overlooking some available option before weighing them
diana_coman: sadly it seems I'm not
asciilifeform: the 1st step to adaizing a cpp turd is to remove the cpp threadisms, they will not only not work with ada's sane tasking but actually destroy the guarantees of the latter ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1885097 << you can't simply shift the buffer just because IT is even ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-06 15:45 asciilifeform: so theoretically can have a steinized daykin ( it remains to be sweated out whether this is moar economical than stein, i'ma get to it today )
asciilifeform: hm i think i missed a thread..? diana_coman mircea_popescu ain't Mocky the client dev ? why is diana_coman stuck baking client also..?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mocky did some (very good btw) work on the foxybot ; then went to qatar ; now looking for job.
asciilifeform: hm i distinctly recalled a thread where he agreed to work as eulorist -- or was that a temporary thing
mircea_popescu: iirc was coupla months.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can shift; so long as you increment counter when you've shifted ~both~ a and b buffers , cuz that's an actual shared power of 2 factor. ( it's what happens in stein )
mircea_popescu: hm.
asciilifeform: if only 1 of a,b is shiftable (i.e. even) that's an unshared factor of 2, and preserves gcd if removed.
asciilifeform: sorta why stein works at all.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lzGMl/?raw=true << for thread-compleeetness, traditional form of stein's algo.
BingoBoingo: More local weird https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/se-hacia-llamar-rockefeller-y-estafaba-a-unicef-uruguay-201916102020
BingoBoingo: ;tldr Teen scams unicife out of 1000 USD, national news
feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2943 << Loper OS -- A Solid-State HDD for Symbolics MacIvory Lisp Machines.
asciilifeform: ^ phf, amberglint, possibly other 'junkyard wars' folx ^
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/usg-sanctions-drama-gets-embarassing-as-foreign-officials-barred-missile-offers-rejected-by-allies/ << Qntra -- USG Sanctions Drama Gets Embarassing As Foreign Officials Barred, Missile Offers Rejected By Allies
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has lead << led
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
BingoBoingo: Turkey just keeps delivering
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'nasa' is a bag of lulz, even by usg standards -- entirely a 'whitewash' project for ye olde 'black budget', historically ( when e.g. 'shuttle' worked at all, was used largely to enorbit $maxint-yet-disposable spy cameras )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, thing was born as pseudo-civilian cover for missile technology development
asciilifeform: orig. yes
asciilifeform: copied in turn from hruschev's lulzidea
asciilifeform: ( usg seems to have copied just about erry hruschevism, down to the corn thing )
asciilifeform: ( d00d was a mega-believer in the plant and 'let's use it for errything' )
BingoBoingo: Well as far as agriculturally sourced chemical inputs go... Corn offers big yields in exchange for big nitrogen...
BingoBoingo: It's a weedy annual grass
asciilifeform: not so big yield when you factor in the petrol (not only for tractor, but for pesticide, herbicide, etc.) mircea_popescu has a mega-piece re subj.
asciilifeform: it has 'level 9000' incaization potential tho. hence the interest in the 2 major inca camps.
BingoBoingo: Well, that's the story of all state projects. The "factor in" part.
BingoBoingo: It
asciilifeform: point, from lizard pov, is not so much to '+ev project', but to put new nails in the coffin of the independent farmer.
BingoBoingo: 's easy to hide the inputs behind big ears
asciilifeform: ( monsantoization was specifically a refinement of ~that~ )
asciilifeform: centralized seed distribution from inca palace, wet dream of 5000 yrs of inca.
BingoBoingo: Independent farmers get screwed on every crop. It's a matter of degrees.
asciilifeform: last 'independent farmer' in the reich lands, i suspect, died during reign of carter. if not earlier.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. ~actually~ independent, dun need city man for anyffin, not petrol, not toilet paper, nuffin ) ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Ah yes, even the Amish go to Walmart in the US
asciilifeform: aaand they take 'paypal' at the market. via ipnoje.
asciilifeform: i shit thee not.
BingoBoingo: Plenty of times in old country I'd see the Amish buggies going up IL-13 to the Murphysboro Walmart in order to commune with Inca
asciilifeform: for all i know , somewhere in the reich there's still an old amish d00d remaining, plowing field with horse, eschewing ipnoje, etc. or maybe usg already found him and put into психушка and took land for unpaid tribute.
BingoBoingo: Well, one thing the oppresive VAT here does is keep something of a cash economy alive
asciilifeform: well orcistans typically can't afford to do what usg does ( i.e. print green with which, among other things, to pay chumps to use cards, in the form of 'reward point' )
asciilifeform: likbez for outside-reich folx : in reich, when folx pay with e.g. 'visa', vendors lose ~5% (they pay for privilege of eating it) and konsoomer wins ~5% ('reward point', exact qty varies by flavour-of-the-day)
BingoBoingo: They try that here. Many of the big chain sucker traps here will offer incredible discounts for using the right card to the point it is anti advertising the pricing of their wares.
asciilifeform: chains yes
asciilifeform: i was speaking of general-purpose 'bank gives you 5% of the spent money back'
asciilifeform: it varies by vendor, and whether yer an idjit (idjits pay interest, cuz they actually use the card as a credit line)
BingoBoingo: They try that here too. Pay with card get X% back as VAT rebate.
asciilifeform: but when, e.g. asciilifeform bought bolix, ~200 orcbux of its cost came back.
BingoBoingo: Then again here they also have this privatized food stand deal where employers can issue a part of employee pay as "alimentation tickets"
asciilifeform: lol! 'i owe my soul to the company store'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: they do that here with train tickets.
BingoBoingo: Indeed. Which network the employer picks determines employee dietary decisions.
asciilifeform: at one point i noticed that at the food market , good chunk of the crowd wasn't paying with money, or even card, but with wooden monopoly money thing . mostly mex-looking chix, with children. turns out, it's what 'welfare' comes in naodays
asciilifeform: the tomato-sellers take it to usg booth and trade it for ordinary moneys, minus tax.
jurov: /znc clearallchannelbuffers
asciilifeform: lol
jurov: oops :)