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asciilifeform: trinque: i once attended a gathering of 'writers'. one unusually introspective type uttered phrase 'do you all understand that we're competing for each other's beer money' ☟︎
asciilifeform: verily it sounds as nutty as it was, but they were hoping to, believe or not, 'live off writing books'. in usa, no less.
asciilifeform: ( i've met 'fresh off the boat' 'was physicist, now cabbie' emigres, who suffered from this delusion. but ~these~ were not emigres... )
asciilifeform: see also e.g. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-08 15:52 asciilifeform: paulgraham -- before turning into the infamous huckster -- had a piece where 'which biznis should you get into if you LUVV gardening?' '...recovering data from damaged hard disks!'
mod6: Evenin'. I've built trb on cuntoo with ave1's 20180924 tools, with rotor only. Quick test shows pulls connects, pulls blocks.
asciilifeform: mod6: plox to detail ( e.g. if on musltronic cuntoo, why needs 'rotor' system ? it existed only to build musltronic gcc 1st, and ~then~ trb, on heathen envirs , recall )
asciilifeform: ( ... or didja substitute ave1's for rotor's ..? )
mod6: I used diana_coman's vtron build with the same. Pressed the (yet unverified by lord keccak vpatch bundle that I created in January) keccak tree, made the changes in the makefiles, etc. Have a vpatch.
asciilifeform: mod6: this part makes sense. but i'm curious re the apparently redundant piece
asciilifeform: ( or do i misread ? )
asciilifeform: cuntoo, per my current understanding, obsoletes 'rotor' entirely (by doing same thing to ~entire system~ right off the bat)
mod6: I ran into some trouble with BDB along the way because of a relocation record. '.rodata.values.2406'
asciilifeform: interesting : this happens on ave1's gcc, but not orig rotor's ?!
mod6: So I ended up adding '--disable-shared' to the BDB Makefile portion.
mod6: That seemed to resolve the problem. Let me do a wotpaste of the vpatch so you can see what I've done.
asciilifeform: mod6: 1st pleez say, under which gcc you get this, and under which -- not
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/olwpU/?raw=true ♖︎
asciilifeform: mod6: i see what you did, but under which gcc got the eggog ??
mod6: asciilifeform: I changed all of the CC, CXX, LD to point at all of the binaries located in the tarball I extracted from the build of Ave1's GNAT, like this one: /opt/20180924/x86_64-linux-musl-native/bin/gcc
asciilifeform: i may be thick, but it is not evident from the patch
asciilifeform: aa
asciilifeform: interesting, apparently ave1's demands 'disable-shared' in some yet-unknown case, to actually build static cppism
mod6: it does seem that way, ya.
asciilifeform: ( previously thought that it ~always~ builds statics )
asciilifeform: at least seems to be the case for ada projs.
mod6: I've taken notes, I'll write up something on my blog as soon as I can. Just wanted to share the progress here. Obv. bunch more testing, etc.
asciilifeform: pretty substantial find, mod6 . ty for documenting.
mod6: I hope I'm not doing anything redundant really. The Makefiles itself take care of the compilation of Boost/BDB/OpenSSL. The one thing that I still need from the rotor.tar.gz is 'openssl-004-musl-termios.patch'
mod6: Otherwise, the 'rotor.sh' and 'rotor_bitcoin_only.sh' are not actually utilized. So we could cut those loose too, if desired.
asciilifeform: it makes sense now, you kept only skeleton from 'rotor'.
mod6: *nod*
mod6: Anyway, I'm gonna grab some food here. I'll work on a write up this weekend among other things. o7
trinque: I'd love to see a trb ebuild come of this mod6
asciilifeform: ^
mod6: trinque: We'll get there.
mod6: Thanks gentlemen. bbs.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, diplomats don't pay income taxes.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914454 << talking to you is often enough an exercise in "let's see what this intelligent but illiterate kid deliberately failed to notice in the source material / replaced with constructed story from head". house there linked built ~century ago, brick. specificaly because is not a matter of "what'd it take to buy rabbit-dwelling shoebox in which subjective rabbit lives". it's a matter of what i ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 22:24 asciilifeform: incidentally fwiw the shack asciilifeform lives in , would cost ~2y of his pay to buy. but i ~dun want~ to buy it, why would i want to buy a decaying cardboard-an'-siding thing.
mp_en_viaje: t'd take to buy a respective portion of the finite turkeys of the land.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: given example was specifically a ratio of 'cost' / 'budget' tho
asciilifeform: nuffin re '% of national land'
mp_en_viaje: yes.but cost ~of one of the actual houses~. NOT ~of such a hole as plebes might inhabit~
mp_en_viaje: precisely this sort of substitution, "oh, shoebox also house, hoofpaste also hamburger, etc" socialism is being rejected.
mp_en_viaje: to arrive at exposing the "oh, this also job, this also salary" fraud.
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/#selection-77.0-77.49 << this being the general statement.
asciilifeform: 'if rocket puts out less thrust than it weights, it dun go up' 'ok, this is true of my toy chopper also' 'idjit, i was speaking only of my moon lander, plebe'
mp_en_viaje: mno. a : "here is job". b : "this job does not pay enough to buy house" ; a. "but shoebox also house" b : "your scamhouse doesn't make your scamjob a job"
mp_en_viaje: and you did not say "this is true of my toy chopper also". you said ~exactly the opposite~ : "my toy chopper DOES put MUCH MORE thrust than it weighs, but what of it, i can't ride it".
mp_en_viaje: are you actually unaware of this ?
asciilifeform: i read orig thrd as 'yer gulag dun even cover cost of barrack, they make you pay for barrack' but difficult to argue with 'scam house, scam job, and breathe scam air also', all of it is entirely tru
mp_en_viaje: this sort of idiocy has been the stock in trade of your non-technical contribution for the past ... soon to be a decade, holy shit!
mp_en_viaje: look at it : " incidentally fwiw the shack asciilifeform lives in , would cost ~2y of his pay to buy. but i ~dun want~ to buy it" === "my toy chopper DOES put MUCH MORE thrust than it weighs, but what of it, i can't ride it"
mp_en_viaje: then everyone else : "so get a bunch of choppers, if one lifts a little a lot will lift a lot" alf : "oh noes, only can exist one, my toy chopper is magical"
mp_en_viaje: then everyone : "so take it apart, reproduce the pieces on larger scale" ; alf : "oh noex, my toy choper can't be opened, it's magical"
mp_en_viaje: this has been you, since you've been talking about money.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff iirc we had thread re literally whether one could ride 100 toy chopper
mp_en_viaje: now stop squirming about. there's no squirming about. you made a claim, which is false.
asciilifeform: plox to expand?
mp_en_viaje: stop sliding over this sort of thing, because it's rotting your brain.
mp_en_viaje: what expand ? the expansion's afuckingbove.
asciilifeform: false as in 'could ride, idjit' or false in re 'toy'
mp_en_viaje: we were discussing a thing. you came up with some cuntlogic.
mp_en_viaje: then got called on it, and instead of fixing the headgoange, went right into cuntmode.
asciilifeform: possibly i dun follow the analogy. not pretending, swear.
mp_en_viaje: again from the top :
mp_en_viaje: i was explaining to the inquiring mind how to price a supposed job : take an actual house, see what it costs, see how it figures against the supposed job. the process will illuminate whether it's a real job or a scam job.
mp_en_viaje: you intervened to point out that you live in a scamhouse.
asciilifeform: in fact do
mp_en_viaje: this is an invalid basis for an intervention ; not something thinking man does.
mp_en_viaje: i pointed out to you that this is not something thinking man does, you went to argue that 1+1=2.
mp_en_viaje: this, IN TURN, is not a valid response.
asciilifeform: there was 0 in orig thrd re genuine vs scam, read entirely as 'is yer 'job' in fact paying, or do you pay to go to it'
mp_en_viaje: i pointed out to you that this is not a valid response, you ~moved on to attacking me~. guess what, wehther i'm rich or poor, happy or unhappy, tall or short, it is STILL not valid to go into a discussion of 1+2 when i point out to you you did something stupid.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, this is the difference. job == where they pay you to go ; scamjob == where you pay to go there.
asciilifeform: so , to expand this binomial, 'if yer living in cardboard, thereby you pay to go' ?
mp_en_viaje: where you live makes no difference!!! for as long as "the job" is something which does not pay enough to buy ~house~, THEREFORE you pay to go. wherever you live, whatever your conditions.
mp_en_viaje: if you lived off photosynthesis, the scamjob still stays a scamjob. because whether job is scam or not ~is about the job~. NOT about you, in any capacity.
asciilifeform: aite, so ~was~ strictly re the sums in given units ?
mp_en_viaje: and yes, this happens to be the two-pronged approach of socialism : tryina make the job about you, and tryna making the payment about something else.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, the discussion was aboout trying to help him evaluate jobs.
mp_en_viaje: like a pair of shoes, which is WHAT THEY ARE. a job isn't who the fuck you are, a job is ~something you bought~. like a tv set or a couch.
asciilifeform: ok, take the succesful broker, 1m/y in. that same brick house, 900k. what is output of algo ? ( per my reading of orig - 'not scam' ? )
mp_en_viaje: but the fact that the man selling you a job is using some "unrelated" accolytes to collect the cost of job, and the fact man selling you job pretends he's collecting "rent" which is totally no cost of job makes no fucking difference. and the fact man selling you job tries to pretend you gotta buy it, to "have status", much like engagement ring salesmen try to pretend, also make no difference.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, "if you're not making bank on wallstreet, you have no excuse to be there ; and even then, it's an excuse."
mp_en_viaje: man who makes 1mn a year on wall street has THE EXCUSE.
asciilifeform: right. so per this extended model, even tho on paper broker 'breaks even', he is still chump, as e.g. lives in reich where usg can steal his brick castle on a whim
mp_en_viaje: well, broker more than breaks even. so he does have the caragea argument, "i'm trying to steal enough before they steal it back to take off"
mp_en_viaje: (ioan voda caragea famous 1818s ruler, escaped to transylvania with his loot)
asciilifeform: this is when i admit that i dun think i have with what to disagree with mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform: imho poorly specified didactic problem tho, in orig thrd.
mp_en_viaje: nevermind what to disagree. stop sliding around all the time, it's like you have a cuntprocess in your head, the moment money starts being discussed you're suddenly an octopus on ice.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'wtf, i solved apparent given equation, and this fella goes off re 'cuntlogics'..' != 'slide'
mp_en_viaje: because it takes a certain dose of insanity to think the equation you solved was the equation that was being presented. you recall that episone in married with children when christina applegate was saving cereal box K's to buy car ?
mp_en_viaje: she, also solved.
asciilifeform: will confess, not seen this film
asciilifeform: ought to ?
mp_en_viaje: tv show. not really : blondy public woman, very dim, decides she wants car, asks how much, is told 40G's, starts cutting out the letter g from cereal boxes
mp_en_viaje: then latter is quoted in k
mp_en_viaje: upset, starts over with diff letter.
asciilifeform: lol!!
asciilifeform: !#s дай дураку топор
a111: 1 result for "дай дураку топор", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B9%20%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%83%20%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80
mp_en_viaje: which is the substance of my objection : that on certain topics, which aren't randomly distributerd but structurally related to money (in the sense of social interaction) you tend to apply such wildly inadequate macroexpansions.
asciilifeform: ( orig. iirc persia, 'to idiot, i gave an axe, so he would cut some wood; but went instead to mosque, the door he smashed best as he could' )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: helps to remember that i've never seen actual troo money, except in microscopic quantities, and even this only since btc introduced
mp_en_viaje: this is fine and dandy, but you have to look at the thing, and evaluate it, and improve it through the usual rational process. rather than pretend it's not even there.
asciilifeform: how much shoemaker knows about neutrino ?
mp_en_viaje: minimaxing works fine in engineering and d&d. it is not a workable strategy in energy exchange, be it in the form of boat-on-sea or in the form of picking-up-chick or in the form of find-jerb etc.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know what minimax is, do you ?
asciilifeform: 'hill climb'
mp_en_viaje: right, decisionmaking optimised for minimizing loss in worst case.
mp_en_viaje: it works ~sometimes~.
asciilifeform: well not only, but with 0 'uphill'
asciilifeform: to be horridly pedantic.
asciilifeform: ( if you can ~sometimes~ move uphill, yer 'simulated anneal', not minimax )
mp_en_viaje: this is the strategy of blondy : the wildest possible edge of "40Gs" as a price would be if the G's were those found in Kellog's. to ~insure herself against the maximum loss where that's what the yactually were~, she proceeds to cut them out, and see.
asciilifeform: well ultimate minimax is... tree
mp_en_viaje: this strategy works sometimes, but it never works in the context of used cars, because ~many other agents played the game already~.
asciilifeform: as in the plant
mp_en_viaje: in markets, the minimax strategy is universally inept, specifically because you lose through average losses not through catastrophe.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc the trad term ( for what 'doesn't work in used cars biz' ) is not, is 'robust'
asciilifeform: i.e. working strat in game theor. context
mp_en_viaje: terminology aside.
asciilifeform: also i entirely believe mp_en_viaje that it dun work in markets. predictable, so loses.
mp_en_viaje: not even a matter of predictable (as in, will be defeated in future). it happens to attempt to go agains tthe specific gradient of what the whole system does. market ~altogether exists~ so as to close the 0-infinity gap
asciilifeform is to same degree 'market expert' as 'fighter pilot'. but does know this basic.
mp_en_viaje: infinity-inspired strategies are necessarily weak in context.
mp_en_viaje: in other words, market is what's left once the minimax approach was defeated. much like water doesn't burn -- because it has burned already -- minimaxing in context of money, language, human relationships does not work.
mp_en_viaje: works ~grandiously well~ dealing with first pass nature, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884426 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.
asciilifeform: aa in this context 'market' as an artificial object, of civilized life, like 'plumbing', vs. merely the set of all possible interactions (incl. 'dumping', burning down competitor, etc. ) ?
mp_en_viaje: market is that situation where you can price things. the exact opposite of heroics.
mp_en_viaje: you can not hire a hero ; but you can hire a service.
asciilifeform: ok then makes sense
asciilifeform: ( 'hero' incidentally wont go far if he cant hire services.. )
mp_en_viaje: now, there's nothing wrong with one who just happens to be a hero. EXCEPT if he has such poor grasp of money, inkeeps start laughing at him.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, quite exactly. a re-read of the ingenious nobleman sir don quixote de la mancha through this critical lens might be most informative. note how panza is ~not hired~.
asciilifeform: this thrd is imho incomplete without a quote from some 16th c italian comedy that asciilifeform never heard of but mp_en_viaje happens to have translated !1
mp_en_viaje: roflmao.
asciilifeform: lol inb4 ( tho did read ~that~ , who didn't )
asciilifeform: but also not italy!1
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, do you mean http://trilema.com/2011/curiosul-pedepsit-de-luca-ion-caragiale/ aka el curioso impertinente ?
asciilifeform: possibly! not read yet
asciilifeform to bed, has all of tomorrow calendared for ffaism, so really ought turn in nao
asciilifeform: goodnight mp_en_viaje
mp_en_viaje: nn
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914457 << rather, a holes a hole. no doubt makes a difference to prisoners themselves, as well as to professional prisoner herders, what everyone's in for. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 22:30 asciilifeform: i imagine all of the holes look quite similar from mp_en_viaje's olympus tho -- sorta like stones on the ground, mountains to ant, all look ~same from man's height
mp_en_viaje: but from the pov of sane man -- everyone's in for having been caught, which is a stupid thing to do .
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914462 << this is a problem. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 23:18 trinque: I could e.g. make deedbot wallet exorbitant for friends, and all this would gain me is beer money and fewer friends.
mp_en_viaje: what's more, it's a problem that only can possibly have two classes of solution : either, like successful merchants, widen the base ; or else, like successful politicians, revolution.
mp_en_viaje: to widen the base you must water down the product, which exposes you downstream to the reversion problem -- even what appeared a bona fide revolution in the 90s could in fact be undone by the cunt process ;
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile to revolution you must crack skulls (and even widely successful revolutions a la russia still end up reverted to mean by same cunt process).
mp_en_viaje: so strategically my notion here is to use a separated approach -- keep the theory clean and neat in one place, and encourage activity informed by it, but do not permit said activity to fuck up the theory. ☟︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: does this make any sense to you trinque ?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914464 <<-->> http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-127.158-131.25 ; the situation is therefore precisely described. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 00:23 asciilifeform: trinque: i once attended a gathering of 'writers'. one unusually introspective type uttered phrase 'do you all understand that we're competing for each other's beer money'
mp_en_viaje: yes on occasion schmuck can sell his body with some political (like the caleb crain idiot hoped to do) or commercial success (like say that j k rowling retard, who "made a billion dollars" (in the usual manner) by "writing fiction" aka herdin
mp_en_viaje: g morons.)
mp_en_viaje: perhaps the best example in latter this vein would be the case of the guy writing "game of thrones" -- he did two things : gathered a demo and provided an in. his in, craftily written in, was "everyone always dies".
mp_en_viaje: once netflix or whoever bought it, they bought a very valuable franchise : now they can "continue" the "famous work of fiction" but ~without~ killing anyone anymore. this is what they're mass-marketing : "come ye herds, and watch the a) famous work of fiction where everyone dies but b) without anyone dying while you watch".
mp_en_viaje: it's win-win, see : the herd can "plausibly-deniably" claim to be watching "something cool". as far as every moomoo in the herd is concerned, they're not a buncha lamers. heck, they're almost cool, they sure as fuck watch true drama, where heroes die (sometime)! ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 21:26 mp_en_viaje: i dunno, "being plausibly deniable & unobvious" i guess.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile the capitalists can claim to be marketing quality fiction, they've bridged the gap, see, they have both large herds of moomoos watching and also (plausibly-deniably) a good story being screened! and they even paid the author lotta money! ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: and the author, who traded his work in for this exact usage (and, i'm pretty convinced, made it exactly to this spec in the first place), is "successful writer" -- the part that's a writer not successful and the part that's successful, not a writer.
mp_en_viaje: there's no argument that this can be done. it's a chumpatron, definitionally : get a buncha chumps gathered around an economically exploitable weakness, you thereby have a negotiable instrument that can thus therefore be sold for money. the argument is that doing this ~is not useful~
mp_en_viaje: (and really, only possible in fundamentally broken societies, and so much so that the mere presence of the mechanism is dispositive, not merely indicative, on the topic of social death -- once NH2(CH2)5NH2 is there therefore life already left).
mp_en_viaje: in which context, the way http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 rather reads to me is the direct converse, "most idiots wallow in their filth". this is even true, but i happen to be a zealot in the following sense : i do not admit any sort of proof can ever be brought so as to show the bad preferable to the good. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 23:17 trinque: republic is scant of profit centers
mp_en_viaje: stated by me, it sounds like a "no brainer", but it is in fact zealotry like any other : obviously "as a matter of definition" the good is better than the bad hurr durr ; the hidden coda is that i also hold these to be ~knowable~. suddenly, it's not so directly obvious.
mp_en_viaje: in yet another possible (and idempotently equivalent) statement, the republic's a rare anabolic island in a wider body politic that went full catabolic. obviously our methods, our inputs and our outputs do not match the outside world. but a) we knew this going in and b) the premise is that catabolism does not last.
mp_en_viaje: certainly b is time-weak -- a body as humongous as the empire of the billion white men, built over millenia with great care, is quite capable of rotting for longer than a lifetime. fuck, it has in point of fact been rotting for longer than a lifetime, a few times over, even! both theoreticaly and from direct historical record it's clear enough : b is quite time-weak.
mp_en_viaje: i personally can't be arsed to extract money out of the decay of outside world. this is purely personal -- ive been doing it for a long time, marginal utility of more money for me personally is 0, intellectual curiosity left is nil, how shall this be best put ? fucked that
mp_en_viaje: ugly whore in every hole so many times so many ways i'm utterly done ?
mp_en_viaje: but this is a very personal thing -- i don't begrudge anyone left the interest his interest ; i'll even read the stories of faits d'armes, just because i'm too old to get it up anymore dun mean impotence is desirable now or some shit. fuck that world sideways, take all its money, by all means.
mp_en_viaje: moreover, it's an important rite of passage, it's something everyone should do, i have little faith in the born-impotent, people who never ran catabolic processes to a tidy profit, let alone know, relaxedly and from ample experience, that they always could.
mp_en_viaje: not to mention poverty is an absolute obligation -- can't sit around going "meh" about saprophytism while being hungry. read ye poor people the 1860s manual, go forth and rob "your masters" blind. absolutely. ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: yet none of this changes what things are.
mp_en_viaje: digestion never produced anything worth the mention. it's true that it can not be skipped, in the quest to "higher expression", but that's also as far as it goes. ☟︎
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- Schedule for Republican work, May-June 2019
mp_en_viaje: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-205.216-205.235 << yes but generous which way ?
spyked: mp_en_viaje, should take less than that, giving myself time to work through potential unexpected issues, e.g. it's been a while since last time I used hunchentoot, need to reload it in head.
mp_en_viaje: a a
mp_en_viaje: in other obscura : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Imper-Barbar.jpg ; attempt at a map of "romania" as defined by stubborn traditionalism ; eminently excluding most of present day state of romania ; suspicious because over-centered on the somewhat arbitrary cutoff in 7-800ad. in practical terms surface extends today WAY past traditiona; mures-nistru space ; in the ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 15:08 mircea_popescu: romanian peasant proud continuator of rome, through the byzantium method. "we've been holding eyes closed to world for 2k years, because head does not follow reality, reality follows head!"
mp_en_viaje: north well past vistula and in the east all the way to fucking lithuania.
mp_en_viaje: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/4f/59/3d4f5963bb3a3d01c7990d9f7a794392.jpg << fucking obviously enough
mp_en_viaje: "Domnilor, maestrul Verdi, daca mai esistă bunul gust pe lumea asta, nu e decît un mare șarlatan, și daca tinerii compozitori vor merge pe calea însemnată de dînsul, pe curînd vom fi nevoiți a zice adio muzicii, artiștilor și gustului celui bun. Verdi, domnilor, vă declar, și-mi susțin declarațiunea, este un scamator muzical și de se va urma tot așa, Italia, care pierde preeminența sculpturei, picturei, literat
mp_en_viaje: urei și a tutulor științelor, va pierde prea curînd și primatul muzical, singura glorie ce i-a mai rămas și care nu i s-a contestat pînă acum de nici o națiune." << pop music duscussed cca1840s.
mp_en_viaje: VERDI RUINED IT!!!
diana_coman: sau haterii cca 1840, lolz
mp_en_viaje: lol
mp_en_viaje: yet the ~prediction~ it makes is entirely correct.
mp_en_viaje: extremely difficult to dismiss a) text of b) clear ideological tendency which c) nevertheless makes statements as of the future d) at some time in the past which e) were borne by historical flow.
diana_coman: yes, certainly.
diana_coman: for all the good that accurate prediction (and the necessary clear and deep enough understanding of the matter) ever did as it were, esp re outcome.
mp_en_viaje: me shall bbs.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914628 << iirc that thing was popular only ~after~ book2film , and strictly ~because~ meat grinder (iirc ~errybody gets killed or at the very least mutilated) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 07:42 mp_en_viaje: it's win-win, see : the herd can "plausibly-deniably" claim to be watching "something cool". as far as every moomoo in the herd is concerned, they're not a buncha lamers. heck, they're almost cool, they sure as fuck watch true drama, where heroes die (sometime)!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914620 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902 ? ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 06:43 mp_en_viaje: so strategically my notion here is to use a separated approach -- keep the theory clean and neat in one place, and encourage activity informed by it, but do not permit said activity to fuck up the theory.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914645 << not strictly correct -- consider how cheese, beer, etc. produced. or , in similar vein, how reich got 'phree' 30+yrs of life out of the 'yeast' digesting sovok ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 08:10 mp_en_viaje: digestion never produced anything worth the mention. it's true that it can not be skipped, in the quest to "higher expression", but that's also as far as it goes.
asciilifeform: ( whether 'worth mention' can be a question, but from pov of the folx who cultured the yeast for half century, certainly looked like a win )
asciilifeform: to take simply 1 example, asciilifeform's mains socket even nao is connected to... sovok pu, sold at fire sale price in 1990s to usg
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914634 << in same vein, i think, as http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658461 thrd ☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 07:48 mp_en_viaje: in which context, the way http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 rather reads to me is the direct converse, "most idiots wallow in their filth". this is even true, but i happen to be a zealot in the following sense : i do not admit any sort of proof can ever be brought so as to show the bad preferable to the good.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:37 asciilifeform: and even if he believes that it ~cannot~ be further shrunk, it remains his job to die trying
asciilifeform: or for that matter, the bolix thread.
asciilifeform bbl:maffs room
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/violence-today-modern-democracy-bringing-misery-to-indonesia-arin-iran-and-bolton-watch/ << Qntra -- Violence Today: Modern Democracy Bringing Misery to Indonesia, ARIN, Iran, And Bolton Watch
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/former-california-governor-arnold-schwarzenegger-attacked-from-behind-at-south-african-event/ << Qntra -- Former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger Attacked From Behind At South African Event
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re indonesia, oughta add the lulzy detail re the 'jammers'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2019/05/violence-today-modern-democracy-bringing-misery-to-indonesia-arin-iran-and-bolton-watch/#comment-129538 Added
asciilifeform: trinque: deedbot down?