tmsr - Log 2019-07-17

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in shitgnomery, '2013.11-rc3, Released November 26th, 2013 Fixes all over the tree. Architecture: Mark MIPS I, II, III and IV as deprecated.' ('buildroot' www)

asciilifeform: this wouldn't even be interesting ('hey use pre-castration snapshot') except that this snip pre-dates addition of musl to buildroot.

asciilifeform: near as i can guess, this was done in order to help kill loongson sinomips. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ... and mips in general. ( how do you suppose the ball-of-shit arm arch became dominant. to this day chinese pay tribute to britain for 'permission' to make arm. why ? at one time mips had patent, but expired in 2009 or so. and in march of '19 orig. mips verilog entirely opensoresd and made public... yet 0 fast mips on the market. guess why. ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922895 << recall that mp_en_viaje prescribed that the wallet oughta be sawed off into own proggy. imho this is entirely Right Thing. but no one has yet found the free hands with which to do, afaik ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:16 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922542 << There is a patch that is not part of the main TRB vtree that does this, but it'll have to be patched in manually. And it most likely would need to be "re-ground" to apply cleanly ontop of your current pressed tree. However, if we can find a time where we could work together on it, I might be able to help you get that part going.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << imho it is foolish to take down a trb noad (i.e. allow it to fall behind) simply to copy the db. the best backup for a trb noad is a 2nd, 3rd,... node. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:25 mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << i dunthink i've ever witnessed the corrupted db (tho i believe the folx who have.) possibly because i have never run node off anything other than always-on sinusoidal inverter ups, tho ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: for the smaller boxen (various arm, 'pcengine', similar) you can actually put a 12v lead-acid in line with the dc connector. and never suffer 'oops, mains flicker' db corrupt.

asciilifeform: mod6: re backups -- if one absolutely must make a hand-cranked copy of a node, the correct method is 'dumpblock' (on donor end) and 'eatblock' (on recipient) , dun require taking down either.

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> aaand gcc broke support around same time. << And the hard opensourpush was made to push a crippled subset of SPARC as MIPS alternative around that time as well iirc

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922882 << reminds me of zimmerman fucktard, wrote to me "oh, lost pw to my orig key" ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:38 asciilifeform: orig. author of 'cmips' btw was of 0 use, i wrote to him a while back and not long ago he answerd 'i lost hdd, lost errything'

mp_en_viaje: i'm like "fucker... why the fuck am i talking to you. are you even in show business ?!"

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:39 asciilifeform: also in the process made sad discovery : previously asciilifeform always pronounced 'gcc 4.9 is usable' but! turns out some time b/w 4.8.1 and 4.9 , someone silently sabotaged support for classical mips1

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 10:19 feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/17/the-mirror-land-notes-on-graphics-for-eulora-iii/ << Ossa Sepia -- The Mirror Land (Notes on Graphics for Eulora, III)

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922886 << this is such fucking recurrent bs... linker WILL emit same crap n omatter what sjlj thing you say to it ; and so on in this manner, "computing" in the sense of conway island wheel "cars", will spin regardless of how little kids turn and twist the "steering wheel" ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:41 asciilifeform: gcc 4.9.x apparently WILL emit mips-r2-istic instrs no matter what flags are given.

mp_en_viaje: in more uplifiting news, travel agent (this twentysomething "rocker" kid, kinda cute at that) used honest to got TERMINAL. none of those java clucker interfaces. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922889 << i thought we were mostly using 2.6 - 2.9 sorta thing ? is everyone really on 3 branch ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:52 asciilifeform: re that kernel -- someone gotta genesis a kernel. ( if no one has any constructive input re ~which~ one, then i will, and it will be somewhat arbitrary. ) atm that patch is a bad-old-style patch, rather than vpatch.

spyked is using different kernel versions (but mostly 3.x) depending on the hardware.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i don't have anything running a 2.x, and haven't for some years ( ye olde 'wrt54g' was i think the last piece of iron i had which ran one )

asciilifeform: never found any reason to keep alive 2.6.x, hand-cut later kernel can typically sit down in same footprint even in small irons

asciilifeform: it was ~2.4~ that some folx are keeping alive, cuz it would fit, with trimming, into <1M. but if yer using 2.4.x you will need a contemporary userland.

asciilifeform: the beauty of synthetic 'iron' is that you can actually use just about any kernel, because there is no driver gnarl, you're already baking the drivers with own hands

asciilifeform: problem comes if you want to run non-contemporary proggies on it ( musl, gnat 4.9.x, etc . ) linus permitted abi to change. ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922928 << ftr i had to disasm his demo kernel to find how the fuck he made it go with the simplistic mips timer. (why ? cuz linux porting docs -- lie !) ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 10:59 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922882 << reminds me of zimmerman fucktard, wrote to me "oh, lost pw to my orig key"

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922938 << ended up reading sections of sores from six diff gcc's... ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 11:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922886 << this is such fucking recurrent bs... linker WILL emit same crap n omatter what sjlj thing you say to it ; and so on in this manner, "computing" in the sense of conway island wheel "cars", will spin regardless of how little kids turn and twist the "steering wheel"

asciilifeform: re 'lunapark cars' -- the rationale for the mips experiment is only half 'make honest vps for piz', other half is 'make reproducible linuxable iron' ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-08 17:28 asciilifeform: meanwhile, asciilifeform while cooking war plan went and thought 'oughta clean up the june item for pre-pub'. and so, for the pleasure of the audience : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/tmsrmips-demo/tmsrmips.asm

asciilifeform: the incident where i glued together rk pilot plant, to only ~then~ find out that nobody knows when the fuck proper gnat will actually build arm binaries w/ working threading, was instructive. ☟︎

asciilifeform: when you have a ~defined~ iron, can lose 99% of the driverism crapolade.

asciilifeform: it dun even ~have~ to be mips, i picked it cuz it is the 'smallest' , moving-parts-wise, arch, for which there was existing gcc back-end.

asciilifeform: ( has a couple of other up-sides, e.g., 'endianism' only affects 3 instructions. so can be made selectable. )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922941 << afaik all the airlines still are using the ~physically same~ ibm mainframes as in 1990. ( simply, in 'civilized' world, the agents run 'terminal' proggy under microshit. whereas in orclands, ye olde ibm glass terminals. i saw one in e.g. argentina, in coupla places ) ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 11:35 mp_en_viaje: in more uplifiting news, travel agent (this twentysomething "rocker" kid, kinda cute at that) used honest to got TERMINAL. none of those java clucker interfaces.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922942 << cga, by the standards of that world, is 'newfangled'. the glass tty's typically emulate ibm's 3270 -- a 1971 product... (or vt100, dec circa 1978!) ☝︎

asciilifeform: single-phosphour crt, w/out shadow mask. hence razor-sharp ( and actually why bolix made the lispm console a b&w tube. was only way to get 1280x1024 in 1980s tube, with sharp text) . for this reason asciilifeform for many years had actual glass tty, when first started unixing, was 1 of the best junkyard finds ever imho

asciilifeform: and you can plug'em into virtually any box, from 'vax' to 'pogo', all you need is a serial port of whatever description.

asciilifeform: btw for thread-completeness -- the 'weird-endian' puzzle had simple answer : turns out the mips arch uses 'little' representation for the instructions per se, even on 'big' machine. the rationale for this, was that the instr. length is fixed, and jumps into unaligned addresses are forbidden (i.e. iron will not load an instruction from an addr that doesn't end with 2 (on 64bit -- 3) zero bi ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 16:43 asciilifeform: re: loose ends: fwiw asciilifeform did in fact add the final missing piece to mipstron. BUT! can't test with the dummkopf's orig linux image as he... guess wat, his system had little-endian word accesses but big-endian byte read/write ! so his image in fact will boot on NO existing mips, nor any afaik other emulator.

asciilifeform: ts ), and so dun matter how the instrs are represented, from user's pov

asciilifeform: ( fwiw the posted prototype has selectable endianism, albeit via an 'ifdefism' . thus far only tested with 'bigendian' kernel + userland tho. )

asciilifeform: if switch to 'little', you will get a roughly 0.01% speedup, all it'll do it get rid of the xor addr, 0x3 instr.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922914 << the schmucks are pretty shameless, it is true, but perhaps not many notches above trivial to reconstruct musl atop a proper (ie, without Peter Korsgaard &rest of retards) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 00:57 asciilifeform: near as i can guess, this was done in order to help kill loongson sinomips.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i expect it'll be somewhat easier than the piece already done.

asciilifeform: ( pretty gnarly, incidentally, had to debug crashed kernels using ~pc host~'s gdb, as there is no dedicated debuggism in the 12kB emu thing, it'd massively slow down execution just by existing)

asciilifeform: ( how ? e.g. 'b _end_cycle if $r9==0xdeadf00d' will stop when 'program counter' reg of mips is equal to 0xdeadf00d', then single-step to see what instr dispatched... then 'i r' and see regs. etc )

asciilifeform: ftr the last version of buildroot that does 100% Right Thing (i.e. built working kernel + userland) is 2013.08-rc1 .

asciilifeform: however it only provides 'uclibc' (and not musl, as prev. noted.) ☟︎

asciilifeform: and 4.8.1 appears to be the last gcc w/ properly-behaving mips1 backend.

a111: Logged on 2019-07-15 10:05 diana_coman: trinque: from what I see though the genesis.vpatch is a snapshot of /cuntoo/portage dir *only* which means that the actual tarballs with the code are not included anyway - so basically it will still fail to find them as soon as whatever URI in the ebuild doesn't host them anymore, what am I missing?

asciilifeform: kernels, however, no hard limit found yet, erry 3.x seems to work (with my patch)

deedbot: 2019/07/14 22:26:25 <trinque> I'm sure it does feel like a bit of gruntwork, and yet, later you will always have that curl, and it will always build.

asciilifeform: ( i expect one can use any whatsoever. my patch will only cleanly work with 2.6+, 2.4.x had very different api for deviceisms )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rk and dulap 4.x , but heavily hand-cut. ( and i suspect can be cut further still . ) i dun operate kernels other than hand-cut.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: unrelated, i found 1 of your belarus tomb folx, comment in mod queue.

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:01 asciilifeform: ... and mips in general. ( how do you suppose the ball-of-shit arm arch became dominant. to this day chinese pay tribute to britain for 'permission' to make arm. why ? at one time mips had patent, but expired in 2009 or so. and in march of '19 orig. mips verilog entirely opensoresd and made public... yet 0 fast mips on the market. guess why. )

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922917 << for what it's worth im well irritated by all this out-and-out saboteur work of subversion, "oh, there's been this improper patch for years now that we keep deliberately maintaining improper and keep mentioning" nonsense. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:18 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922895 << recall that mp_en_viaje prescribed that the wallet oughta be sawed off into own proggy. imho this is entirely Right Thing. but no one has yet found the free hands with which to do, afaik

mp_en_viaje: get the fucking shit aligned or stop talking about it altogether. it's either abandoned, in which case, it is not mentioned ; or it is not abandoned, in which case it is fixed. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: if it's not fixed and not abandoned you are raising flags of rebellipon, and i will cut heads.

mp_en_viaje: more to the point : why ~the fuck~ would you want to spend your time "hand-helping" someone on "how to install an improper patch" in preference of, spending the same time making it a proper fucking patch, which has the side benefit that now you don't have to hold their hand.

mp_en_viaje: besides the "i utterly hate the republic and wish to fuck it over", there's no incentive for the stance available.

asciilifeform did write some experimental patches, and they were marked with jolly roger, and certainly aint about to recommend'em to anyone who does not consciously know wtf he's doing, much less hand-hold to install..

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922922 << fortunately bdb will actually recover itself from ~most "omfg error" states it loudly reports upon unexpected shutdown. not 100%, but in general it can be hacked back into coherence without much trouble. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << i dunthink i've ever witnessed the corrupted db (tho i believe the folx who have.) possibly because i have never run node off anything other than always-on sinusoidal inverter ups, tho

mp_en_viaje: of course, this also requires familiarity with bdb, which is a lot like familiarity with baud modems.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: doesn't require hand-hexing, since trb actually stores all blox, simply needs re-walk trigger

mp_en_viaje: it'll be so fucking nice when we finally manage to ditch that dependency tho

asciilifeform actually has the with-what engine, and it's blocked on that gnat finalization bug ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 12:16 asciilifeform: problem comes if you want to run non-contemporary proggies on it ( musl, gnat 4.9.x, etc . ) linus permitted abi to change.

mp_en_viaje: then again, i can not name any program published after... uh i dunno, 2005 or so that i actually fucking use. a large part of the advantage in dealing with these idiots is still ye same old : nobody needs aything they "did" for anything. much like i have no use for "all the advances" in bitcoin (what, segwit ? bwahahaha) i also don't have any use for "all th

mp_en_viaje: e advances" in gaming and the web is STILL better seen through lynx than through firecrash/chromeburn. what, i lose out on loading github ? linkedin ? lordy. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 21:23 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914135 << bahahahahaha! and for extra lulz, phuctor was 'replaced' in <2hrs -- whereas this took, wat was it, 6mo ?

mp_en_viaje: "but mp, if you don't get latest chromed piss you can't connect to appsites like fetlife". like hell i can't! i wouldn't fucking use their idiotic interface to interact with their own backend/userbase/wife-and-daugther if they fucking paid me anyways.

mp_en_viaje: basically, a flat rejection of the userland past 10 years or so is the ~exact equivalent of not talking to indians in call centers on the phone. "i'll just talk to the manager, get lost paki."

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: imho after working mipstron, whoever actually needs heathenware for whatever experiment, can house it in a mipsjail and be done with it. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-06-04 00:51 asciilifeform: incidentally, i generate these by machine, and it takes about 3sec per. would have put it as a net-connected hopper thing aeons ago, BUT it of course uses a heathen render (there are no 'demonstrably electrically correct' pdf eaters, and i dun expect one to exist) and suffers from the obvious problem

asciilifeform: the current kernel is <2MB. and prolly trimmable further. boot to shell in 3sec or so. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: 1. most of the "need" and "use" you perceive is entirely imaginary, resulting from the intersection of your WSOD and their marketing efforts and 2. most of the actual utility comes from older stuff in the first place, and will be delivered better by resurected older stuff than by the newer stuff.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i suspect this hypothesis extends just the same to iron.

asciilifeform: properly-trimmed linux userland , i suspect , would run entirely usably in 'tmsr mips'-on-ice40.

mp_en_viaje: this is not merely true, but fractally fucking true. consider the actual, lived experience of yours truly, who ended up buying that motorcycle of a 5lb vid card and that mega screen etc to... in the end ... play heroes3 on it ?

asciilifeform: i may have mentioned, built exactly similar 'motorcycle' 2y ago, and to same result.

mp_en_viaje: then alf is like "but mp... you don't need accelerator card for those" and mp is like... ikr.

mp_en_viaje: i didn't even start with it ; the actual history as it unfurled is fucking emblematic. 1 "oh, steamos ?" 2. nowait, no os, idiots ; 3. ahahaha, THEY HAVE NO GAMES, how can they survive 4. omfg bbq NOBODY DOES HAVE ANY

mp_en_viaje: the entire collection of "video games" output 2009-2019 can command HALF the play hours off your time that ANY ONE TITLE of 2000-2009 can command

mp_en_viaje: however, if you sit down to play gothic, or kb or any fucking one thing it'll be time spent playing, full screen, immersed ☟︎

asciilifeform: i can't even think of ~one~ post-'09 title i liked, other than 'portal'

mp_en_viaje: and if you sit down to play post-apocalypse crapola it'll be time spent shifting through the zombie bin, omg this sucks omg wtf is this shit etc

mp_en_viaje: i personally enjoy much more buying a pair of shoes / acquiring a new whore / eating a meal than touching five thousand slimy, ugly and unpleasant "shoes" "whores" "meals" that fucking aren't.

mp_en_viaje: i think it must be just me, because i see the hordes of touchers everywhere.

mp_en_viaje: but back to the issue : i suspect all things any one actually wants will be easier and readylier had by taking an older version and cutting it down to sit on tmsr computing environment than by trying to run it on the campbell-soupcan flavour of windows, be it "foss"/"gnu"/"linux"/adobe/oracle/apple/whatever, they;re all windowses

mp_en_viaje: because the sort of idiot involved is born with a spongiform brain of microshit.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it still blows my mind how i keep coming to agree with this man notwithstanding i never seem to like him very much

asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, this is actually gold standard for correctness. and if i find myself ~liking~ + agreeing, then suspicious, 'is argument really solid'

mp_en_viaje: it's like being back in school, and teacher saying stupid dumb shit and you sitting down to figure it out and annoyingly discover it's merely counterintuitive, but absolutely not dumb shit.

mp_en_viaje: then again i suppose that's what college even fucking is in the first place.

mp_en_viaje: well, yeah, back when sex was sex and rape was rape and food food and etcetera, college also was college.

asciilifeform raged, frothed, when 1st read naggum. sorta like when later 1st read mp_en_viaje , and so on

asciilifeform: still not eaten all of mp_en_viaje's tho, i'm slow in ro. maybe will live long enuff, eat.

asciilifeform: mine fwiw is 100x+ smaller. but iirc the only fella who admitted to eating all of it, was gabriel_laddel, and he went mad.

mp_en_viaje: i'm waiting for you to die, in any case. then will loper-os.org. adnotated. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922965 << this wasn't the original hardware ; merely emulated on contemporary hardware. dood had a terminal open on his modern pc ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 12:31 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922941 << afaik all the airlines still are using the ~physically same~ ibm mainframes as in 1990. ( simply, in 'civilized' world, the agents run 'terminal' proggy under microshit. whereas in orclands, ye olde ibm glass terminals. i saw one in e.g. argentina, in coupla places )

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923008 << My apologies here. It was ill conceived to mention it at all. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 13:52 mp_en_viaje: get the fucking shit aligned or stop talking about it altogether. it's either abandoned, in which case, it is not mentioned ; or it is not abandoned, in which case it is fixed.

mp_en_viaje: maybe just make it a patch ? or whatever, i get that you mean well, but sometimes you manage to always get your fingers caught under this sort of furniture.

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 13:53 asciilifeform: mod6 when you wake up -- wtf was this ?

mod6: mp_en_viaje: Yeah, have good intent, wanting to be helpful. However, I need to think through some of these things a bit better. Exercise more restraint and caution on such things.

mod6: Recently, on workbench, I've been trying to build up TRB on cuntoo; and most recently (last month) dipping my toe into creating ebuilds.

mod6: I created one for ave1s musltronic tools (which won't fit the bill yet, because of circular dep. of GNAT), one for diana_coman's Vtools (which may not fit the bill 100% either, yet), and one for TRB. ☟︎

mod6: But overall the focus has been to put forth directed effort into getting us over to cuntoo so we can stop using all of the buildroot things, and supporting debian, et. al.

mod6: The idea being, once we're moved over to cuntoo, using keccak vtools & a keccak trb vtree, then the Foundation can go back to discussion of various patches that have been waiting in the lobby for some time.

mod6: (Also, should mention, I did see that diana_coman is working on her own ebuild, which is awesome, will most def. supersede what I was tinkering with last month.)

diana_coman: mod6: mine so far would be "curl" alone so perfectly fine alongside yours since you say you are doing much heavier lifting there

mod6: Hi diana_coman! Let me post what I did (simply as a discussion point - example), for those whom are following along: http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo/test/ebuilds/starter_v-99993.ebuild

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923053 - funnily enough not even *just* the playing; kid pleaded and asked so in the end got him through ~20 lines of Ada doing a little "guess the number" text-game and he's more hooked to mess around with it than with heroes because obv "can look inside" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:16 mp_en_viaje: however, if you sit down to play gothic, or kb or any fucking one thing it'll be time spent playing, full screen, immersed

diana_coman: ah, yours is a proper ebuild mod6 but shouldn't it notify of dependency on gnat i.e. it should basically install that one too first?

diana_coman: at any rate, the current discussion is re including the source in the vpatch and being done with it since otherwise the ebuild by itself is no guarantee that "it'll always be there"

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: his is just the ebuild aka no sources; the ebuild downloads the source from my site so in this sense yes, it'll always be there

mod6: Yes, it ~should~ depend on the musltronic_tools ebuild, it does need more testing though to ensure I have the proper useage of RDEPEND. Yeah, I did see the earlier discussion of including the source; I agree with that,

mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the "include source in vpatch" is not merely re dependency, it's also "how do i meaningfully patch against absent code ?" and even "how the fuck am i supposed to display this ??"

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: had same thought re that kernel patch -- wtf to do with it, it aint a vpatch, nao need genesis of kernel, so then which, etc

mp_en_viaje: and, as imo republican experience has well shown any and all, way the fuck better a firm answer, even if turns out mistaken and has to be chanced, than no answer.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: currently thinking, oughta genesis'em together. ( and at same time snip out errything from kernel that aint relevant to the sim-arch. ) and ~then~ if someone thinks he absolutely must sit down said kernel on some other irons , ~he~ can then put back the necessary routines.

a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 21:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i described this in the orig ifdefism thread. the solution is to stop pretending that coad worx on boxen where no one in living memory had ever tested it and signed.

asciilifeform: the other variant is to do a la trb, genesis e.g. 3.70.16 (arbitrary, happens to be what i had around during 1st test) and ~then~ cut, a la trb. but it is gargantuan , would make trb genesis look microscopic in comparison, viewing the genesis patch in e.g. phf's viewer will prolly crash most www browser..

asciilifeform: will add, all of this doesn't even close the circle unless also genesis gcc.

asciilifeform: granted wwwtron really oughta be able to display a physical-ram-sized ball o'yard w/out crashing

asciilifeform: separate q is whether such a thing can be considered 'human-readable' tho. ☟︎

asciilifeform: in principle 'anything possible' ; recall german gun 'bertha', 'dora', etc. series. 3000 men, 400 camp whores, however many technicians, 4 railroad tracks, battalion of railroad engineers to lay track in front of it so can move... but in what sense is 'field' artillery. ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:30 mp_en_viaje: i'm waiting for you to die, in any case. then will loper-os.org. adnotated.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923078 << fwiw good % of the 'working moving parts' of usa work on these. e.g. certain insurance co's, other items personally witnessed. 'where is the proggy' 'right here, runs vt100 emu, connects to ibm360 downstairs' ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:36 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922965 << this wasn't the original hardware ; merely emulated on contemporary hardware. dood had a terminal open on his modern pc

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923088 << the circular situation of gnat , where 'need gnat to build gnat', is the third reason for the mips approach -- arch with 100 fixed-length instructions, simplify the eventual rewriting of backend so can ditch gcc dep. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:56 mod6: I created one for ave1s musltronic tools (which won't fit the bill yet, because of circular dep. of GNAT), one for diana_coman's Vtools (which may not fit the bill 100% either, yet), and one for TRB.

asciilifeform: incidentally, seems like asciilifeform is not the 1st or the 100th to think of this : turned up that in ru, from early 2000s, and entirely unrelated to the hyped 'elbrus' & co, they've been making rad-hard realtime box 'baget' on mips1.

asciilifeform: interesting architectural approach, also, 2 cpu, 1 runs a unixlike, the other -- a handwritten asm thing that actually talks to the iron, and presents self as 'iron' to the unixturd

diana_coman imagines asciilifeform-ghost coming back purely to read the adnotated loper-os.org

asciilifeform: e.g. old man naggum -- evidently moar 'alive' nao than when alive.. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923130 << thing is, until we put the cowhide on the table, we don't really know wtf is even wanted or needed ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:03 asciilifeform: separate q is whether such a thing can be considered 'human-readable' tho.

mp_en_viaje: shoe-sized table works for well understood processes, and even there kinda...

a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:06 asciilifeform: in principle 'anything possible' ; recall german gun 'bertha', 'dora', etc. series. 3000 men, 400 camp whores, however many technicians, 4 railroad tracks, battalion of railroad engineers to lay track in front of it so can move... but in what sense is 'field' artillery.

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923132 << 400 whores seems like a bit much for only 3000 men ☝︎

bvt: hello. I will try to finish the ffa work from the workplan over next two days. i had some meatspace interference that stole a few work hours.

bvt: re korzhen, his son's www has english version of the story http://www.korzhan.art/biography.html

asciilifeform: bvt: found it earlier, comment is currently in mp_en_viaje's modqueue

BingoBoingo: I think I've found peak self important Argentine derpery: https://archive.is/wRbNu 1. Expecting Uruguay to act agaisnt a fishing vessel Argentina doesn't like because Argentina's charges against the boat are "public knowledge" though entirely domestic to Argentina. 2. Sticking to the Malvinas and trying to insist Uruguay derp with them over some British sheep islands not named New Zealand.

BingoBoingo: "Que las relaciones entre el gobierno de ocupación de las Islas Malvinas y Uruguay son fluidas y con un importante intercambio comercial en materia pesquera es conocido por todos. Incluso empresarios y funcionarios británicos se han referido a los uruguayos como sus socios estratégicos. Pero hasta ahora, nunca un funcionario del gobierno uruguayo se había referido a las islas como territorio inglés."

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in envirowhinerism noose : asciilifeform uncrated a 'window' type air conditioner to help in torture room; and found 1) cost ~2x than last time bought one 2) plastered with 'explosion hazard' warnings. apparently europistan banned ~all~ freons, new-type, old type, and as result EVERYONE gets cooling compressors fulla... butane. 3) internal insulation is... styrofoam. the white, ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-02 16:51 asciilifeform: it isn't any moar outrageous than the butane-filled refrigerator BingoBoingo found himself with

BingoBoingo: Well, isobutane is a good refrigerant.

BingoBoingo: The styrofoam bit sucks though

BingoBoingo: depends on the circumstances of the lighting

asciilifeform: oh and lol , apparently not butane, but a flammable fluorocarbon (!), decomposes into hf when burn

BingoBoingo: LOL, ended up with worse than my isobutane

asciilifeform: interestingly, the use of flammable refrigerants was specifically banned in building codes. errywhere. holdover from early 1900s. today -- amended, and... mandatory

asciilifeform: 'envirowhinerism trifecta : expensive, shoddy, deadly'(tm)(r)(uncle al)

BingoBoingo: Well, primus stoves burn how many women in pakistan every year

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'blinded by primus' was a not-infrequent thing in era-1 sovok ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-06-27 13:48 asciilifeform: on top of this, add the fact that sovok was really 4 separate items, as diff. as e.g. roman 'kings' period vs republic vs empire : 1) lenin epoch 2) stalin 3) hrusch 4) 'stagnation' and wrap-up.

BingoBoingo: I'm rather surprised the primus thing isn't a more common artifact down here. They are around, but I guess most of the kerosene goes to the airport.

BingoBoingo: They are here for sure

BingoBoingo: Just the LPG thing really took off here

BingoBoingo: Anyways, Petrobras just ended their dispute with the local trabajadores by dumping the piped gas network on the government