log☇︎
1000+ entries in 0.222s
mircea_popescu: i realyl don't like this "and now we magic-variable the numbers". it's one step up from magic constant
asciilifeform: ( and probably could not be in the standard, such things as, e.g., width of the machine word, were not universal constants )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dropping it into a pyturd gives 0 useful result -- becomes nonconstanttime , potentially
mircea_popescu: shinohai also weird re constants. 14716. anyway ima kiwiirc if any of the locals developed a taste for watching these
mircea_popescu: anarplex.net 6667 or are the internet dweebs sworn to absolute wankery also weird about their constants ?
asciilifeform: Run Moar Nonconstanttime Bignum
mircea_popescu: this would be automatic-constant-time cpu, run any software you want.
asciilifeform: so for instance if you want to load in a constant somewhere, you gotta read it from the constanttron (which is some range of addrs)
sina: asciilifeform: nope, and I did look! the closest thing I found was this, which is both not public and not for constantime, although interesting nonetheless drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2012/3587/pdf/3.pdf
sina: if you impl as constant time you don't need ctgrind
sina: asciilifeform: not valgrind for valgrinding, but ctgrind patched valgrind for checking constant timeness of existing code
sina: asciilifeform: btw I was going to ask you about your feelings on this https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library ...obviously hasn't been impl for constant time/space but regardless. may be possible to ctgrind it using that valgrind patch I linked in the logs
mircea_popescu: basically the other side of the "constant time" coin is that... YOU GET CONSTANTTIME, BITCH.
mircea_popescu: for some reason they're obsessed with making the old man's life miserable by pestering him constantly.
asciilifeform: because - again - nonconstant time and space.
Framedragger: "in all directions" depends on medium. in radio, it's clear; in packet switched networks, could be a list of broadcast addresses to send auth strings to (constantly), etc
Framedragger: note the important aspect which lighthouse introduces: constant stream of auth strings, "in all directions"
Framedragger: afaict gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams << Typical cocaine use is gram after gram after gram after gram, I imagine mp or Tiger Woods level is sugar bowl or candy dish set out in advance
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams
asciilifeform: and so '1 brick' is bezzlated into equiv of 1*K bricks, where K is a pos. constant
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 00:57 asciilifeform: sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.
asciilifeform: and the way to provably do this, is method called 'constant time arithmetic'
asciilifeform: sina: making 'constant time rsa' by trying to bury the rsa in a fixed 'box' of time, only works if you can guarantee LOWER bound of how long the rsa ops (ALL of them, till the end of time) take, as well as UPPER
asciilifeform: and the only way to make it so that i can't -- and ~probably~ so -- is to do your arithmetic in constant time.
asciilifeform: the only way to make guaranteed time bound is... constant-time arithmetic
sina: ok fair point, I get the general need for constant time constant space algo regardless of gossipd stuff anyway
asciilifeform: sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing. ☟︎
sina: but per the next specification sentence, the client will be generating keys constantly and potentially assigning them to use when connecting to a peer
mod6: J : constant Positive := L - K; << J gets assigned to 3. 7 - 4 = 3.
mod6: K : constant Positive := (L + 1) / 2; << Now, K gets assigned to 4. (7 + 1) / 2 = 4
mod6: L : constant Positive := X.Z'Length; -- Words in each operand << let's say that L gets assigned to 7. (since we start at 0, we end on 7 as overall length)
mircea_popescu: 6/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/#selection-51.0-51.49 "certified scientist" etcetera is nil.
asciilifeform: STILL NOT IN CONSTANT TIME because apparently mother dropped him as a child
mircea_popescu: this then reduces to the case where constant, space, time etc
ben_vulpes: do forgive my ignorance, but why must rsa ops run in constant, worst-case time?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-11 04:51 mircea_popescu: it'll never end, this constant stream of improved improvements, until they're literally fucking buried, the muppets, will it.
asciilifeform: 0 way to guarantee constant-time-anything
mod6: this whole year has been nuts. i feel like im constantly behind. all that stuff with my mom just sucked up so much time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669058 >> this is a lulzgem, 'I also tested BN_mod_exp_mont_consttime from OpenSSL since that's a large function which calls functions from several other files. It turns out not to be constant time! There's a secret dependent memory access...' ☝︎
sina: (Checking that functions are constant time with Valgrind)
mircea_popescu: it'll never end, this constant stream of improved improvements, until they're literally fucking buried, the muppets, will it. ☟︎
asciilifeform: so instead we have this explicit constant.
asciilifeform: i probably oughta explain why we even have this MAP_FAILED : constant Address := System'To_Address(16#FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF#);
asciilifeform: aaaand even after you handcraft the gentoo, with bare hands and sewing needle, you still gotta 'police' the thing constantly, and keep out the poetteringisms that continuously want to build one another, and you have to swear off maybe half of all 'modern' proggies
mircea_popescu: and the need for the cure is constantly signalled, and the cure always is exactly that : round them all up and hang them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're taking a child's view of water. it's not the fucking proofing that's at issue, is structural problems induced by having a force vectror that's substantial, constant, and randomly changing direction. that's why metal excels, it can take random load like that. plastic can't. wood soprt-of can, maybe.
BingoBoingo: It's an enjoyable past time. Plants take manure up front, but composted so less smell. Livestock constantly produces fresh smelly manure on the other avenue.
asciilifeform: compared performance of 'kindergarten' multiplier ( halfword at a time, uses machine's MUL instr. which apparently IS constant-time on x86 (but NOT on arm! would need test routine at warmup to establish if can use MUL ) )
asciilifeform is haunted by the notion that constant-time karatsuba gotta exist SOMEWHERE
asciilifeform: that's what constant-time means.
asciilifeform: understand, the constant term doesn't matter.
asciilifeform: re nonconstant mul.
asciilifeform: witness, incidentally, the lack of a 'constant-MUL' instruction on any extant cpu.
asciilifeform: in fact, it is well-known not to be constant time on recent intels.
asciilifeform: that there is NO guarantee that MUL/IMUL (or equiv. on other cpu) is constant time !!
asciilifeform: nao we need a non-recursive (! , SPARK won't allow recursion nor is it constanttimesafe to have any), constant-time karatsuba...
asciilifeform: it's the logic of big-G constant. planet -- can hold atmosphere; piece of orbital rubbish - not.
BingoBoingo: Constantly readjusting chain tension happens with small bars, nbd. Dumping 90 weight straight through alleged "reservoir" and calling it automatic oiling is sin.
asciilifeform: basic principle of constant-time proggy
asciilifeform: only constant-time shift-and-subtract division
asciilifeform: 0 useful docs anywhere on division in constant time
phf`: oils and other particles are carried by constant steam, accumulate on surfaces, start catching dust and dirt particles, etc. it's straight up unhygienic.
pete_dushenski: i'd like to take this opportunity to introduce 'constantine' (37.59.43.190) as an infrastructure trb node. he will be replacing 'laocoon' (62.113.203.216), who will be henceforth relegated to testing duties. cheers!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/dogecointipbot-creator-admits-constant-embezzlement-while-shutting-down-service-sorry-for-your-loss/ << Qntra - Dogecointipbot Creator Admits Constant Embezzlement While Shutting Down Service: Sorry For Your Loss
asciilifeform: gotta have the constant-time exponentiator .
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform presuming for unknown reasons acceleration constant, there's a strict relation between it and 0-60 timings.
asciilifeform: https://thewildpeak.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/exile-rather-than-servitude-the-english-leave-for-constantinople << in unrelated olds. lulzy www , generally. reminds that not all liberasts are illiterate, even today.
BingoBoingo: This is because it is constantly trying to "self level", no standouts among idiots after all
asciilifeform: also irritating is the fact that, while we have constant-time routines, it is impossible to guarantee constant-current (yes)
asciilifeform: for my purposes i could entirely do with a constant-time-and-space mult algo that knows when to set the overflow flag.
Framedragger: i mean, 'compared to what'. certainly not compared to asciilifeform's actually-fucking-constant-time crypto architecture
asciilifeform: does anybody have a favourite constant-time modular-exp ??
asciilifeform: ^ with constant-time mul
asciilifeform: phf: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/z16GS/?raw=true << tentative constant-time >wordsize-increment shifters.
asciilifeform: also ideally it'd work in constant cycles. ( asciilifeform is still thinking, on paper, how to make shifts work in fixed cycles . )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "specifically made to" means a lot less than it appears to, for reasons such as euler's equality etc. pi is a fundamental constant, it's everywhere.
asciilifeform: thing is optimized for -- strictly -- constant (always-worst-case) time and space usage; and fits-in-head (in that order)
Framedragger: (shitty tl;dr: iss is a toy which is nasa's bureaucratic instrument to get constant, predictable budget assignations (consider that iss always has to be crewed). now-defunct space shittle + iss was a perfect self-sustaining devil's pair.)
davout: one task of the pilots is to constantly be able to instantly answer "shit happens, where go?"
ben_vulpes: in other constantly increasing costs of cross-referencing all of the inanity all of the time, "'ai' picks up biases from texts on which it's trained"
shinohai: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/851307750495801348 "I'd rather have a consensus failure every year than intense constant bickering."
BingoBoingo however has planted what should yield and incredible and constant variety of tomatoes until this fall's first frost.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 16:04 phf: i met fare at one of international lisp conference's and i thought he was kind of off, but the kind of work he did on asdf3 precisely corresponds to his personal and writing styles. sort of like a dirty kid that you have to constantly remind to like fucking go wash yourself dude, omg
jhvh1: asciilifeform: haskell :: 1 -- A general purpose, polymorphicly typed, lazy functional programming language largely based on lambda calculus. 2 -- A constant source of frustration for those who have been brainwashed by the OO paradigm. [ex:] You: How do I write a 'while' loop with Haskell?Me: You can't, freshman. [/ex] | A town in Northern New Jerse located between Ringwood and Pompton Lakes, smaller district of (5 more messages)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: for some reason i am reminded of a cartoon i saw when i was very small, incidentally iirc it was made in some baltic country, where an eagle decides that frog is his son and threatens constantly to 'teach him to fly' by throwing from a cliff
doppler: "constantly horrified" is my universal internet status
danielpbarron: i think it might be comparable to camwhores and ptsd. having their attention constantly split here and there trying to appease everyone
asciilifeform: which is not necessarily as fixable as 'fix the constant'
asciilifeform: the other constants, i looked up, but this one, naively memorized as 'megabyte'...
asciilifeform: (or at the very least, in ~predictably~ nonconstant time)
asciilifeform: e.g. that it is possible to operate on a thing of bitcoin's complexity, in constant space AND time
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack : yes, it is possible to implement ecdsa in constant space. after all, the sigs are of constant size, and the payload is maxed at 10,000Bt.
phf: i met fare at one of international lisp conference's and i thought he was kind of off, but the kind of work he did on asdf3 precisely corresponds to his personal and writing styles. sort of like a dirty kid that you have to constantly remind to like fucking go wash yourself dude, omg ☟︎
mircea_popescu: the way we do things has no appeal except to serve the way we think. yet, ape-ing is constant. stealing bits of trilema is like chuka raiding rtg in siberia, yet chukas do raid. on it goes.
Framedragger: (okay apparently if your cpu supports 'constant_tsc' (as seen in cpuinfo) then this timestamp counter actually counts time and not processor ticks which is a *good thing* given freq scaling etc.; this is available in all new intel processors; what a rabbit hole, man)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-10 23:41 asciilifeform: if it dun run at a constant rate: a) adjust your bios b) if fails, Throw it out!!
asciilifeform: and that a btctron can run in a constant, defined memory footprint
ben_vulpes: because that's a constant string in the universe
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 17:07 ben_vulpes: i figured the boats were under constant optical satellite tracking, perhaps these schmucks weren't paying for it? http://gcaptain.com/bunker-tanker-hijacked-off-somalia/