log
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mircea_popescu: Framedragger done
mircea_popescu: aaand in other trumpreich, looks like the "consumer financial protection bureau" is going away entirely.
mircea_popescu: (invented in 2010 among the boatload of dc-insider-centric pork dodd-frank introduced)
mircea_popescu: liz warren's idea.
mircea_popescu: pretty fine example of exactly why warren was so vocal (item was strictly a barony created so elizabeth warren could be barron OF SOMETHING). this cfpb item spent 55mn on "renovations" of its hq, ie more than the gsa spent that year on everything the usg owns ; spent immensely on travel (which is not something they do). the chairman is supposed to not be removable by the president except "for cause" (meanwhile that got strick
mircea_popescu: en) and, lulzily, they came up with a system to "guess" based on reasons (such as zip codes and last names) who is a black applicant for loans, and then fined various usg agencies masquerading as banks by the 100s of millions for these alleged abuses. and they got it too, because settlement culture. and they didn't, of course, pay as much as a dime to the "estimated" victims, they being you know, "estimated" aka hallucinated,
mircea_popescu: in plain language.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the SOPS have been adamant in rejecting lawsuits against them.
mircea_popescu: how exactly elizabeth warren isn't in jail atm is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: (the people pushing for the dissolution of the thing are just as unprincipled, ftr. mostly a coalition of "payday lenders" ie 2nd generation loan sharks.)
asciilifeform reviewing vintage 'fixes', e.g., https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=102395 >> mircea_popescu tell me, how the fuck does caching ~invalid~ blox make any sense at all ?
asciilifeform: how was this 'fix', any kind of fix.
asciilifeform: 'Once the victim receives this invalid block, they will cache it on disk, attempt to process it, and reject it as invalid. Re-requesting the block will not be even attempted since Bitcoin believes that it already has the block, since it has one with the same hash.'
asciilifeform: srsly wat.
asciilifeform: !#s tv raft
a111: 6 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo awake ?
asciilifeform: i got a nooseitem comin'
mircea_popescu: afaik ancient shitty code.
mircea_popescu: guy pretty much explains it all, merkle tree is a poor hashing scheme by itself.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz caer i mean eu is actually splitting up huh.
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/2FaQr/?raw=true
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except it's a fine hashing structure! the bug is not a bug : a block with one or more duped tx is ispo facto invalid (double spend.) and bitcoin has NO business keeping around 'hashes of' or any other part of an INVALID block.
asciilifeform: with which to later reject a valid one having same hash.
mircea_popescu: does a buncha padding which meh.
asciilifeform: and what's that do
asciilifeform: *ipso
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
mod6: Update from yesterday: The necessary change has been made to the forthcoming version of V (99994); if when pressing, the given output directory already exists, it will be removed, then will proceed to press new vtree.
mod6: There has been an automated test added for this as well.
mircea_popescu: cool deal.
mod6: yup, still on target for this weekend.
mircea_popescu: a nice
BingoBoingo: ty asciilifeform
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/amazon-rolls-out-an-index-librorum-prohibitorum/ << Qntra - Amazon Rolls Out An Index Librorum Prohibitorum
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: some prime rib coming via mail to qntra these days
mircea_popescu: the significant point, of course, being that the female state DOESNT EVEN DARE ADMIT IT. just like working class mom not buying kid shoes because $reasons, rather than because "i was too dumb when i was 20 to not be poor now that i'm 35 and look like 49, honey."
BingoBoingo: For serious. Loving this submissions from other people business.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: maybe try this piece in the heathen pits ( 'thedonald' etc )
BingoBoingo contrary to popular belief not an all seeing eye.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am not welcome in that heathen pit
asciilifeform: btw BingoBoingo this is a '0day scoop', afaik discussed nowhere.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet noticed it , directly, when browsing shitazon just few hrs ago.
mircea_popescu: in that case...
BingoBoingo still planting it in heathen pits
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently we were not first on the heathenwebz, but first outlet of note.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: who then
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Some shittty censorship subreddit
asciilifeform: lul
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1246.54, vol: 5263.87284892 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1231.999, vol: 5886.66739 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1245.9, vol: 17236.09760773 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1163.594754, vol: 1985.67870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1246.828, vol: 1890.30479738 | Volume-weighted last average: 1238.45673452
BingoBoingo: Dat Stabilibutt
BingoBoingo: On that note Imma sleep. Good night my fellow butt trusted servants of the Republic
davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
davout: how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers?
davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful?
jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything
jurov: and i doubt very much openssh has any extra code to avoid this situation
davout: surprise butseks https://twitter.com/blockchain
davout: http://archive.is/QI0vI
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627305 << netstat☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:47 davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627307 << jurov look how ssh does port forwarding. it doesn't USE the normal shell part for anything. the whole POINT of fuckoff.c is to clog, and work as a 'stopper' for shell access☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 07:51 jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything
asciilifeform: it's exactly like the 'nologin' util ~except~ that it doesn't hang up.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
asciilifeform: ssd is the only complete pill against this, thus far
asciilifeform: ( tx index rather )
mircea_popescu: davout somehow the retard's excuse always is "i'm not the only retard btw". which is a shockingly safe bet not to mention kinda begging the question... OF FUCKING COURSE pointless & witless demographically dominate. but somehow this seems novel and refreshing to them.
mircea_popescu: but lulzy twitter account anyway. http://archive.is/QI0vI/76e3921ab5bdd66b6f2aeec94015e880d514d6dc.jpg <-> http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ etc.
mircea_popescu: pushing dat female alt-reality hard to dat twit audience.
mircea_popescu: jurov no see the point is for it to clog
mircea_popescu: a nm.
asciilifeform: kenya?!!
mircea_popescu: you know ?
asciilifeform: brain-melting.
mircea_popescu: and they never fucking remember the previous set of перерасход план!!111 headlines
mircea_popescu: that was teh problem of the pcus, see, they kept trying to social media at the elite. they should have social media'd at the shrimps.
asciilifeform: !!up b41e209ccc264812
deedbot: b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes.
b41e209ccc264812: !#s book
a111: 2824 results for "book", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=book
asciilifeform: what book are you looking for, b41e209ccc264812 ?
b41e209ccc264812: hi
b41e209ccc264812: information on books you might be interested in or commented on
asciilifeform: who might you be, b41e209ccc264812 ?
b41e209ccc264812: right now still nobody
mircea_popescu: that's an interesting approach.
mircea_popescu: any particular field ?
pete_dushenski: b41e209ccc264812: this is pretty up to date, if angled from my particular lens http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/28/petes-mega-recommended-reading-list/
b41e209ccc264812: thanks Pete. I am still doing trilema.com for now.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the monkey circus, https://archive.is/ekC3l >> 'responsible disobedience' didjaknow.
b41e209ccc264812: I have been reading your site/blog too, but will for the time being concentrate on trilema. and worke my way from there
pete_dushenski: np
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whassat ? "being what we'd have called nazi and a threat to our democracy had trump lost" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'resistance through culture' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: ah ah.
mircea_popescu: well, just as long as they don't have to do what they don't wanna do, i guess.
b41e209ccc264812: no particular field. I am interested in general as what might be on your reading lists. Some of the concepts and topics you discuss are very interesting. But sometimes I find myself lacking background information and decided to start from somewhere
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember me translating the "feminine exceptionalism" article recently ? i can't fucking find it but im pretty sure i did
mircea_popescu: b41e209ccc264812 may take a while.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://thewhet.net/2017/feminine-exceptionalism << hanbot ?
b41e209ccc264812: not may it will ;)
mircea_popescu: o she did! excellet! ty.
mircea_popescu: i'm like "i know i fucking read this in english! WTF WHERE IS IT!!!1"
mircea_popescu: anyway, working on "how to be a pimp" guide, secrets revealed.
pete_dushenski: this was in ro, yes ? (i seem to recall poorly translating it at one point)
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/jJIES << related 'guide' from heathendom
mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: you get bonus comparison then. not to mention the end product is half notes (i think this is one of the "absolutely hardest to translate that can still be translated" category)
pete_dushenski: i seem to be a sucker for those :/
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/20/how-to-be-a-pimp-a-simple-yet-understandable-and-still-exhaustive-guide-translated/ <<
pete_dushenski: !!up b41e209ccc264812
deedbot: b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/how-to-be-a-pimp-the-simple-comprehensible-and-exhaustive-guide/ << Trilema - How to be a pimp - the simple, comprehensible and exhaustive guide
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski http://trilema.com/2010/bai-mi-e-lene/ << tried that one ?
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627313 <<< cool, i'll send you a ssh key☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 12:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627318 <<< what are those?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 12:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes
asciilifeform: davout: ideally this would take some other form than everybody hanging off my particular node
asciilifeform: davout: see logs. it's when the thing grinds to a halt while verifying block, while waiting for 1,000,001 random disk writes to complete
davout: you don't mean reads? when verifying individual txes?
asciilifeform: davout: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000255.html and http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000256.html and past 2 wks of logs.
asciilifeform: when ~saving a block~
davout: yeah i followed all that, didn't realize it was the ~writes~ clogging up everything
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that the problem vanishes on ssd
asciilifeform: if it weren't for the screaming insanity of bdb, you could theoretically 'elevator algorithm' the disk accesses
asciilifeform: and get ~same result
davout: seems quite curious, it'd intuitively seem like the block would be written in one single pass, and then the db might spend time on reads to connect transactions to their parents, but writes... wtf
asciilifeform: davout: the tx index is the issue
asciilifeform: not the block writing
davout: aha
davout: that makes sense
davout: we'll see how that goes i guess, i was kinda wondering whether i should get a ssd-equipped server anyway
mircea_popescu: for bitcoin, yes. and mind that it's >128gb already.
davout: the whole chain?
mircea_popescu: yeah
davout: du -sh ~/.trb reports 131gb
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: also there'll be the debug log
davout: can live on /dev/null for all i care, unless i'm specifically looking into something
mircea_popescu: yes but if you are then it can't unlive on dev/null
davout: so far it blocks for a while on the 'getinfo' call, but seems to still be up to date
davout: is it 457370
davout: *it is
asciilifeform: davout: if you have a box with a ssd ~and~ traditional disks, put the debug log on the traditional
asciilifeform: (it dun need fast random access)
davout: yeah obviously :)
asciilifeform: also if you have a consistent empty 4GB of memory, you can apply my cache patch (not yet an official vpatch, but it is a 1liner, ups bdb's cache to max)
asciilifeform: for roughly 2x speedup
asciilifeform: (i recommend a box with at least 16GB installed, to use this)
davout: aha, thanks for the tip, i do have 16gb on the hdd-only box
asciilifeform: the 'odometer' patch will show the change in timing
asciilifeform: davout, mircea_popescu : probably the bdb cache thing oughta become a command line knob.
asciilifeform: ( i'd much rather that bdb simply went away. but this may take a while. )
mircea_popescu: honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes
mircea_popescu: max the cache and that's that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zoolag, the more reliable of my 2 nodez, has 4GB total !
asciilifeform: believe or not.
asciilifeform: nearly 0 blackhole, and 0 OOM events.
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: thing is the size of a grown man's fist, also.
asciilifeform: ssd box.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess that's a serious reason then
asciilifeform: that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ.
asciilifeform: while we're on subj:
asciilifeform: in other noose, 'nqb' now eats, parses, blocks and tx, correctly, and HEAPLESSly
Framedragger: ^ that's pretty kewl.
mircea_popescu: nice
asciilifeform: after it also demonstrates the indexing algo from last week, i'ma vgenesisate it and post.
asciilifeform: anybody other than asciilifeform have a working gnat toolchain yet ?
asciilifeform: ( it slowly dawned on me, that a proper block eater is perhaps half of an entire btctron... )
asciilifeform: ^ the other half, the hard half, is largely the actual script execution / cryptolade.
asciilifeform: which i don't have, and have no intention of attempting in near future, hands are quite full.
Framedragger: yeah i wanted to ask how you managed to implement script stuff in this amount of time but i guess no need to parse scripts to have definitive view of all tx
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i specifically did not, the scripts are left alone, the blocks are verified only in the very limited sense of mechanical format (lengths do not fandango out of buffer limits, etc)
Framedragger: ahh, okok.
asciilifeform: idea is simply to demonstrate sane storage and indexing.
asciilifeform: and that a btctron can run in a constant, defined memory footprint
Framedragger: yeah! i imagine it's gonna be tremendous and yuge :) (but seriously, compared to userspace fs....)
Framedragger: did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious
mircea_popescu: it's not a minor point given that no bitcoin implementation is currently known that DOES in fact run within a defined memory footprint.
Framedragger: yeah this is a big wtf.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: nope. ben_vulpes is actually running the churn, on his (working) btctron, i deliberately left it to him
mircea_popescu: tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another
asciilifeform: hence the 'wait for locks to expire!' idiocies
asciilifeform: and inability to remove anything procedurally from mempool, say
mircea_popescu: yep
asciilifeform: i will note that in domains where The Thing Must Work, Motherfuckers, e.g., spacecraft, (traditionally) heaps are forbidden.
mircea_popescu: a recurring observation.
asciilifeform: it is tremendously painful, at first glance, e.g, 'wanna parse blocks?' 'fine, determine now the maximal space that will EVER be occupied by the process, and put it Right Here Forever'
asciilifeform: then you sit for three days and finally realize that never do you need more than 2MB for it.
asciilifeform: (i.e. ~any~ proper, 1MB, bitcoin block can be made to sit down in no more than a 2MB-sized bottle such that indexing of its components becomes an O(1) operation.)
asciilifeform: i will leave the algo an exercise for readers, who can then see if they came up with same one, after i post mine.
Framedragger: (also recursion forbidden, too, e.g. (in jpl c handbook) - all about predictable execution..)
asciilifeform: so to round off the thread: blocks can be stored in 'fast' form, and reconstituted as-needed for transmission to peers; or alternatively, with 2x the disk cost, can be stored in both forms (i prefer the latter, with a background thread that randomly spot-checks the correspondence, which oughta be an iron 1:1 , everywhere )
asciilifeform: if it isn't obvious : 'fast form' is simply a SANE tabularization, removing the idiot varints
asciilifeform: (shitoshi's varints require you to parse WHOLE FUCKING TX just to find, e.g., 1 particular output)
asciilifeform: and to parse WHOLE FUCKING BLOCK to find one particular tx, etc.
asciilifeform: so instead of varints, we 'pascalize' the data structure, and have set of indices at the start to each of the components and its length.
asciilifeform: and then likewise same thing is done to blocks.
asciilifeform: finding a given input or output of a given tx, becomes O(1), theoretically.
Framedragger: nice. so you have local pointers within given data structure (e.g. block) referring to starts of whatever-relevant-stuff? (i didn't even know that satoshi's code used variable length ints)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: not pointers in the c sense, but in effect yes.
Framedragger: local offsets i guess.
asciilifeform: and yes the tard used variably-sized numerals ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h?v=makefiles#0193 ) for ~everything !
asciilifeform: and not even bignum representation, where'd it begin to make a vague sort of sense,
asciilifeform: but for integers from 8 to 64 bit !
asciilifeform: as a result, parsing ANY of the traditional bitcoin serializations, is O(N) operation !
Framedragger: wow
Framedragger: at first i thought "well for small ints it's just an additional nSize check which is retarted but whatever", but he writes the bytes himself regardless of int size and i'm sure compiler etc. won't be able to optimise much there
Framedragger: wait he uses boost right, doesn't boost have its own 'multiprecision' thingie a la bignum?
Framedragger: wtf :D
asciilifeform: not related.
Framedragger: ah okok.
Framedragger: (hm, 'cpp_int' (part of boost's multiprecision module) is allegedly an arbitrary precision int lib, but whatever / maybe not applicable)
asciilifeform: we're talking about small integers (max is 64bit) strictly.
asciilifeform: as in, ~counts~ of inputs/outputs in a tx; counts of tx in blocks
Framedragger: oh hah ok.. and he felt compelled to use his custom thing for those, too. ok lol
asciilifeform: they save ~no space, but effectively prevent you from operating in anything other than O(N)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: bignums are stored in openssl's liquishit format, unrelated.
Framedragger: myeah you can't randomly access things in the middle, etc. lol.
Framedragger: aha ok.
mircea_popescu: it's basically a hobble. from which we discern satoshi, whether married or not, certainly saw no fundamental problem with marriage as a mental construction / social narrative.
asciilifeform: lolwut
mircea_popescu: individualized integers!
asciilifeform: not even very individual, there are exactly 4 sizes
asciilifeform: but it's enough so as to never know where n+2nd element of a sequence is, without eating the n+1st !
mircea_popescu: yep. just like marriage.
mircea_popescu: poor man's adventure.
asciilifeform: great simulator of cassette tape, on modern comp.
asciilifeform: want to load anything ? gotta wind through whole thing up to that place.
danielpbarron: how is that like marriage?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i was speaking of the varint thing
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu seems to use 'marriage' to refer to just about any poorly thought-through, short-sighted plan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform danielpbarron the arrangement a) between one man and one woman which b) presumes to be wilfully entered by both and c) claims to resolve all the possible problems they may encounter is, necessarily, a casette tape.
danielpbarron: so the heathen interpretation, not the Biblical.
mircea_popescu: well the biblical interpretation is neither clear nor practically relevant, seeing how heathens exist but biblical marriages are necessarily livresque.
danielpbarron: i know of a few
mircea_popescu: but anyway, my point was that there's actual effectual activity, and then there's the specific sort of pointless makework which self-referentially tends to capture people.
mircea_popescu: ie, man enjoys a woman specifically ; satoshi wishes to make bitcoin. that's all well and good. then man proceeds to marry her and satoshi proceeds to design a scheme whereby everyhing's suddenly and for no reason o(n).
mircea_popescu: the resemblance is striking, to me. but then again mebbe im weird.
asciilifeform: bad engineering ALWAYS eventually takes the form of a glue trap, where 'entry costs a buck; exit -- two!'
mircea_popescu: and bad living, also.
asciilifeform: sorta like a kid falling behind in school
asciilifeform: as per old mircea_popescu essay
mircea_popescu: aha.
danielpbarron: if a man enjoys a woman he absolutely should marry her
trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing
trinque: danielpbarron: towards purpose?
danielpbarron: marry just means: won't cast away
mircea_popescu: if she knows she can't be cast away that fucks up her incentive structure.
mircea_popescu: no, that stays on the table. let her behave herself.
danielpbarron: it is not casting away if you give an order and she refuses to follow. can still beat her/ restrain etc
mircea_popescu: teh cast away device is immensely valuable : to the loving woman it is truly the bottom, worst possible penalty ; to the unloving a welcome release.
danielpbarron: idk why fucking other men has to be on the table
mircea_popescu: what, you're gonna beat her to death ? meh.
trinque: man, if I think back on all the women I cast away, and they were all in this room
trinque: jesus christ, indeed
mircea_popescu: what'd happen ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron well cast away dun mean you also take her back does it.
danielpbarron: it would be better she die than lie with another for sure
mircea_popescu: why. maybe they fit better.
danielpbarron: too late
mircea_popescu: for whom ?
danielpbarron: everyone
mircea_popescu: suppose you're born and a perfect and ideal bride is destined to you. suppose 15 years later a black immigrant from the arab nation of africa gets her drunk at a party and fucks her. is it now too late for you ?
danielpbarron: !~bible mat 19:6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 19:6 :: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you've not even met her yet.
danielpbarron: there is no soul mate
mircea_popescu: so mating is not pre-ordained ?
danielpbarron: all that matters is women not be passed around like harlots
mircea_popescu: hm.
danielpbarron: her getting drunk fucking nigger was pre-ordained
mircea_popescu: suppose you meet this girl that loves you and get married and then have sex on wedding night and she's allergic to your sperm (this happens, yes), goes into anaphylactic shock an' dies. was this pre-ordained ?
danielpbarron: yes
mircea_popescu: therefore her marrying you was preordained ?
danielpbarron: and lucky her she's not going to hell because i wouldn't have married a heathen
danielpbarron: God causes all things, even evil
danielpbarron: !~bible isa 45:7
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 45:7 :: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
mircea_popescu: it'd seem to me that in the continuum between "whenever a man is born a woman is allocated him, soulmate" and "let them be passed around and let the dogs fuck them too, what, it's a muscle. not like they're made of soap" the specific "there's no soulmate but there shouldn't be gynorgies either" spot you select is hard to support in any fundamental way.
danielpbarron: wha? i'm not saying a man can't have multiple wives. if the first sucks get another, just don't ditch the first
danielpbarron: and this is a better incetive structure for preventing the bad relationship in the first place
mircea_popescu: i wonder.
danielpbarron: ie: careful who you humble, you'll be stuck with her
trinque: sounds more like it causes timidity in the male, than building judgment
trinque: most basic drive there is, ever present, DO NOT FUCK IT UP EVER NOT ONCE
danielpbarron: timid males go to hell
trinque: while they haven't yet, they're a nuisance to the living
mircea_popescu: i dunno, why would the woman be a drag in the first place ? old loves dun bother mp any. heck, they're a substantial part of his imperial majesty.
danielpbarron: can be a drag if one believes Bible and other doesn't
mircea_popescu: only if one believes and is wrong while the other doesn't and is right. otherwise... what's the problem, truth prevails eventually.
danielpbarron: sure, if he was saved after the marriage. otherwise it's dubious to say he believes if he was willing to lay with a heathen
trinque: what if he only does it standing up?
danielpbarron: let the truth prevail first, then lay
danielpbarron: i'm not convinced it's possible to convert girls with cock
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's one of the weirdest things. they mostly did it standing (like, for the record, it's normal!) and yet the expressions all reference the decaying mores of the empire.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/genetics-proposes-the-environment-disposes/ << Trilema - Genetics proposes, the environment disposes.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627505 << relevant lulzy article: https://qntm.org/gay☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 17:46 trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing
trinque: "eye-poppingly sexist" << wtf I am not reading this
danielpbarron: lool "y2gay"
Framedragger: like any other place, this one's got their trigger words, too. careful not to read too much literature in case you segfault, trinque
Framedragger: like, that *the* thing you picked out. great, success
Framedragger: that's*
Framedragger: spoiler, it gets into nice examples of graph theory. but yeah, not the $badword!!1
Framedragger proposes #trilema-safespace ; no badwords!
trinque: what, we jettisoned a quip guy and now you're it?
danielpbarron: he's on the right track with the eye-poppingly sexist scheme. it should, however, be the woman who stores the husband id, that way many women can be paired to one man
asciilifeform: 'There are a lot of people in the world who actually think like this. This is their for-real, no-joking conception of "marriage". They do not grasp that men and women are interchangeable, as a result of which homosexual marriages create repulsive integrity problems in their heads. "But if they're both guys, which one is the wife? Does not compute!" How sad.'
trinque: the article signs off with a turd about open minds and flexible worldviews and so on
asciilifeform: dunno, genuine libertard, or parody
asciilifeform: but snoar.
Framedragger: danielpbarron: iirc there's a scheme down there which allows for this, etc.
trinque: rejecting something on the basis of politics is entirely reasonable
Framedragger: you do understand that you can use words descriptively and not normatively, right?
Framedragger: anyway, it's true, not the most interesting piece; was relevant and lulzy enough for me; guess i'm timid
trinque: I'm not engaging in the sidestepping game with you.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'repulsive' and 'are interchangeable' seem pretty normative.
asciilifeform: declarations, of as-if-fact.
Framedragger: myeah, that'd do it.
danielpbarron: Framedragger, i liked it. made me chuckle
Framedragger secretly likes the guy's scifi. but, yah, point taken
trinque: anyhow the 2% in there about "you will have to edit your schema" sure
mircea_popescu: lel.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why the muricans imagine "everything" is up for their review.
mircea_popescu: nothing is up for their review.
mircea_popescu: not the meaning of words, not all, not any ; not the substance of human relations nor the organising of human activity nor anything else.
Framedragger: (british, but the point stands...)
mircea_popescu: no such thing as british.
Framedragger: ah.
mircea_popescu: that died at a time orwell was a young man. this dude's murican from the island.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what do you do when women start declaring your id ? note that this isn't an idle consideration, but quite the fundamental problem of harem societies. clemens has some notes about it re life in the mormon lands, for instance. it's everywhere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cog wants to be cog, cockroach thinks "o, man doesn't feel interchangeable, how sad!!1". pretty lulzy.
danielpbarron: heh if we're gonna get technical, perhaps she declares instead a signed thing produced by me
mircea_popescu: so then we just store your list of signeds.
mircea_popescu: but as a general principle of db design : the property is stored with its creator, not with its object.
mircea_popescu: thus, if you decide which women are your wives, "wife" is a field of you-entry in db.
danielpbarron: what would that be? a concatonated string of woman ids?
mircea_popescu: i guess ? no good way to apply the eyepoppingly socialist db model to the fundamentally republican reality of domestic disturbances.
danielpbarron: hey i agree. i don't think it needs to be a database or state issue. can be between husband and father of girl. if there's a dispute later, let them testify accordingly
mircea_popescu: to whom ?
danielpbarron: judges
mircea_popescu: who the fuck are gonna be the judges.
danielpbarron: if it's up to me, old men who believe the Bible
mircea_popescu: suppose #dbp ends up with a million souls hanging off it. are you going to now hear all this crap ? 100/day ? really ?
danielpbarron: that would be a nice problem to have
trinque: old men are bad enough without turning them into grandmothers-to-all
mircea_popescu: perhaps because you've never had it. but from experience, being the judge of a troop of idiots is the worst fucking horror of a turd to fall on your head. and this holds even if you have life and death powers and the ability to construct the law andf its application however you wish through simple declaration.
danielpbarron: i doubt grandmothers would rule that adulterers should be stoned to death
trinque: man old women love nothing more than gossiping about so and so's young whore daughter
trinque: theirs stopped working!
mircea_popescu: it may even be the original driver of language, the old women's need to do something aboutthe young sluts.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the overarching concern isn't so much what to do about x as what to do so all the fanciule don't start pressuring them out of society.
danielpbarron: pressuring who? the judges?
mircea_popescu: them, the old women.
danielpbarron: according to the Bible, we get just as you describe. this world is no good and everyone seeks evil continuously
mircea_popescu: in other utter lulz : Books by Proust, Marcel (sorted by popularity) Swann's Way Marcel Proust 1002 downloads ; Du côté de chez Swann (French) Marcel Proust 400 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 97 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 71 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Troisième partie (French) Marcel Pro
mircea_popescu: ust 62 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 59 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 52 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 48 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 44 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Troisième partie (French) Marcel Proust 35 downl
mircea_popescu: oads
danielpbarron: so what happens? we get exactly what can be seen all around today
mircea_popescu: this, from gutenberg. poor guy can't match trilema's day with his opera omnia.
danielpbarron: on this topic i side with the muslims. not the so-called christians
mircea_popescu: about what, judges ? closeted homosexuals ? old books ?
danielpbarron: marriage
danielpbarron: one man, multiple women ; execute adulterers and homosexuals
mircea_popescu: why do you care enough about what other people do to want to kill them anyway. you mean like, adulterers you find in your own closet ?
danielpbarron: they defile the land and the country
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: how about unqualified github contributors ?
danielpbarron: i don't want to go looking for them but they certainly shouldn't be permitted to flaunt it in public
trinque: "shouldn't be permitted" is what everybody asking somebody else for a mega-state says
danielpbarron: as is the case in the US and europe
trinque: whether the mega-state religion is communism or this
mircea_popescu: wait, so they actually befouling land and country you want to punish only if they do it in your sight ; but the fuckers you want to punish in principle ?
mircea_popescu: maybe they do it in their own closed and ain't botherin' you none.
trinque: thought jesus was supposed to have hung out with whores and so on, wasn't apparently befouled by the act
trinque: this sounds more like fundamentalist judiasm
danielpbarron: the Bible says it defiles. i doubt they could do it in private for long without it somehow manifesting in public
mircea_popescu: who, magdalene ?
ben_vulpes mutters something about join table for wives and husbands
trinque: many to many eh? gettin wild
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes laugh if you will but the issue is not entirely uninteresting... working on marriage for eulora. though there - one will only be able top marry npcs. even if they start as pcs - fine method for a player to suicide an avatar, this.
danielpbarron: Jesus died for the sins of everyone. that doesn't mean sin isn't sin anymore
mircea_popescu: trinque predictably, that objection runs into the son of god doctrine. dood also went to hell, and crashed the gates.
ben_vulpes: trinque: could enforce uniqueness in the second column
trinque: something something "he who is blameless cast the first stone"
trinque: anyhow the whole thing's inconsistent so anybody can pluck anything
mircea_popescu: but inconsistent where ?
trinque: doesn't the guy or one of his progeny also say "wages of sin is death"
mircea_popescu: possibly.
trinque: so I can see where danielpbarron would say kill 'em
trinque: or I can decide I'm a softy and "turn the other cheek"
mircea_popescu: well is it a sin or an offense ?
danielpbarron: it may be the case that nobody is qualified to do the execution, but execution is still the right thing. Jesus told that whore to "sin no more"
mircea_popescu: who, magdalene ?
danielpbarron: i don't know if this one was named. the thing to which trinque is referring "cast first stone"
mircea_popescu: ah yes. but i'd rather discuss the whore he wilfully or accidentally omitted to address as such.
mircea_popescu: you know, exactly in the manner of tolerating whorishness generally.
danielpbarron: if she repents then she is no longer a whore
trinque: ah I just didn't remember her name
mircea_popescu: no record she did.
danielpbarron: who, mary?
mircea_popescu: mary magdalene, yes.
danielpbarron: she did i believe
mircea_popescu: ah, but she did in general terms. that counts ?
mircea_popescu: "sorry for being bad master" ?
danielpbarron: she anointed Christ before his execution
mircea_popescu: yes, but would you propose "she sucked the judges off, all of them" as a fine defense in your above case for whoredom ?
danielpbarron: what??
mircea_popescu: well... "she anointed". what if she did.
danielpbarron: eh it may be the case she didn't believe. i don't suppose it matters. the fact remains a whore generally may repent and no longer be a whore, although it would still be appropriate to execute her
mircea_popescu: but apparently a whore may also ambiguously pass for random follower and it wouldn't matter.
mircea_popescu: which yes, matches my own experience.
danielpbarron: judas was a follower
mircea_popescu: he was, at that.
mircea_popescu: pretty great problem in chrisology.
mircea_popescu: or how do you say this in english, hristology ?
danielpbarron: !~bible mat 7:21
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 7:21 :: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
mircea_popescu: ah, mind that the eventual fate of all these is of no interest in this discussion. we were just going on about the "should be" and "shouldn't be". if mary doesn't have to publicly admit she was a whore, and if nobody has to point out to her, and if she may vaguely repent without mentioning, or maybe not, and it makes no difference, then why not random hussy aged 17 in 2017.
mircea_popescu: i will excuse carol of "cool it, carol" fame with the exact same rod.
mircea_popescu: (note that she also does repent, in the same approximate manner.)
danielpbarron: what matters is that if she repents she will stop doing the bad thing! this can be plainly observed
mircea_popescu: well i how can it be plainly observed when you didn't observe the other deeds any ; nor did the observation get recorded.
danielpbarron: ask her! everyone i talk to here in connecticut freely admits they are a whore/adulterer
mircea_popescu: suppose she has more sense than that.
danielpbarron: how could she unless she knew the penalty was death? they freely admit this because there is no consequence.
mircea_popescu: might also be because they're utterly unsophisticated.
danielpbarron: that too
mircea_popescu: this is generally how the urban poor end up in jail.
mircea_popescu: incidentally dorky black men get sent up for "drugs" now. it could readily be dorky white girls for "whoredom".
mircea_popescu: poor people are very unpeople-like.
danielpbarron: how woukd my conversation go with the rich whore?
mircea_popescu: try it ?
mircea_popescu: but not so far off from how the conversation goes with me ; after all i taught most of them har har.
danielpbarron: i don't know any apparently. or rather i haven't met a whore i couldn't get to admit it
mircea_popescu: how much is the business hotel only call girl in connecticut ? 1k a night by now ? 2 ?
danielpbarron: no clue
danielpbarron: i don't even tinder
mircea_popescu: so identify one, run into her "accidentally" in town, ask her out and then ask her what she does for a living.
mircea_popescu: (and if she says "i'm a high end whore" fucking marry her, because srsly.)
danielpbarron: i don't follow. because she was honest? perhaps i should clarify, i use whore to mean a woman who has sex with multiple men. harlot is a better word (friend of the world) but both are bad things: whether she is paid is irrelevant
mircea_popescu: pretty much. she was honest ~with you~. dun expect she does this generally, was the subtext.
mircea_popescu: ie, the portion of the observation germane to the topic.
danielpbarron: if she repented of being a whore and really came to be saved then yeah i could see marrying her, maybe. but the onus would be on her to do that. I'm better off single, it's her best interest to marry
mircea_popescu: this is certainly a matter of perspective.
mircea_popescu: after all, she pulls 1k/night.
danielpbarron: not anymore (she repented!)
danielpbarron: 1k/night at expense of eternal soul, so..
danielpbarron: in eulora terms this would be something like "oh hey this is really profitable to do but then my whole account gets nuked"
mircea_popescu: well, she can repent if you want her to, but she still has a town house, eighty lbs of jewelry and about half a million in cash in strongboxes all over mexico.
danielpbarron: !~bible mark 10:25
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Mark 10:25 :: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the discussion was who's better off how / interests etc.
danielpbarron: ah i see what you mean, suppose despite all that comfort she still repents, and now she also has all this stuff. so she dosen't need me in the financial sense. but maybe she wants kids
mircea_popescu: $20 at the sperm bank.
danielpbarron: and a father to raise them
mircea_popescu: well, maybe she can't find any proper men, so she just picks up an orphan kid and raises that.
danielpbarron: hey if she's saved i don't care what else she does. adopts a bunch of orphans, wonderful!
mircea_popescu: kinda what angelina jolie tried, anyway.
danielpbarron: well she's not saved. she can't do anything good.
mircea_popescu: but the point remains, notwithstanding how poorly it worked for that particular idiot, that there's a lot worse fates than being a 30something successful repented whore.
danielpbarron: a repented whore would be ahead of 99.9999% of the world that's for sure
danielpbarron: !~bible isa 64:6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 64:6 :: But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
danielpbarron: "filthy rags" better translated as "rags of menstruation"
mircea_popescu: so then it's not even a bad strategy for the 16yo brighter-than-average highschool girl, http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/
danielpbarron: ie: good deeds done by people who don't believe is seen as disgusting to God
mircea_popescu: as per aquinas, "let me repent and let it be tomorrow", she'll do jus' fine.
trinque: !~bible mark 7:15
jhvh1: trinque: [KJV] Mark 7:15 :: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
trinque: I guess that checks out lol
danielpbarron: could die at any moment. i'd say it's not worth the risk, but most people go to hell so it's anybody's guess
mircea_popescu: whoa. faggotry is ok per mark ?!
trinque: aha
danielpbarron: context is re: food, ie: kosher law
mircea_popescu: so he can eat the cocks ?
danielpbarron: or no, washing hands rather
trinque: says nothing
trinque: not no food
mircea_popescu: ah so just handjobs
mircea_popescu: i wonder if "things which come out of him" includes spit.
mircea_popescu: what if one pops his own zits and eats the proceeds ?
danielpbarron: it means the things he says because they come from the heart
danielpbarron: words
mircea_popescu: hm
danielpbarron: the things you eat get destroyed in the stomach, but the things you say, they come from you, and if they are bad things that you say, it means there is something bad in you
mircea_popescu: better hope people use proper languages rather than whatever barbar.jpg to speak.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron that theory suffers from not having ever eaten corn kernels neh ?
danielpbarron: heh
mircea_popescu: incidentally, am i the only one wondering why the everloving fuck the ustards keep pretending sex is something dubious and hard to distinguish etc, when every single fucking cell of the organism carries, very strictly, the code on it ? it's either xx or xy, stop bitching and whining, there's NO ambiguity. none.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, what about mongoloids". yeah, really.
diana_coman: everything is hard to distinguish when one has only vague approximations instead of definitions (because clear definitions are too harsh; and not inclusive enough! etc)
mircea_popescu: a right there is that.
trinque: !!up BU_lulz
deedbot: BU_lulz voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: what lulz do you bring, BU_lulz ?
BU_lulz: just getting lots of lulz from the BU community lately
trinque: well, do share.
BU_lulz: just the fact that their was a bug in their protocol that brought down 90% of their nodes
BU_lulz: i know it's petty, but I do love seeing shillz get rekt
BU_lulz: not to say there aren't segwit shillz
trinque: http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-altcoin-unlimited-experiences-drop-in-node-count-due-to-remote-crash-vulnerability/ << aha, davout qntra'd that one already
BU_lulz: but it is def a different calliber of insanity
BU_lulz: yeah not new news :)
BU_lulz: really just wanted to listen to what the trilema folks were talking about
BU_lulz: easier to connect and eavesdrop then click through the logs
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin Unlimited is a full Bitcoin client and is an alternative to the original Bitcoin Core client. It offers high levels of security, privacy, and stability." quoth the roger ver mfa.
BU_lulz: i really want roger ver to go away like gavin
asciilifeform: was this the one that downloaded blacklist from mike hearn's tor onion ? or was that a previous idiocy
BU_lulz: each statement he makes outcringes the last
mircea_popescu: i think that was "bitcoin classic"
BU_lulz: u guys think the usg is pumping alt coins lately?
BU_lulz: like I have no faith in ethereum, dash, etc but I can't help but feel printed money is being thrown at them
BU_lulz: i've been tempted to try to make a penny off the pumps, but the principled side of me has kept me from stooping to that level of derp
trinque: the printed money can dribble from whichever tentacle, eh?
mircea_popescu: what isn't paper money being thrown at ?
BU_lulz: good point, that's probably mostly what is giving BTC it's current market cap
trinque: anyhow, who are you, BU_lulz ?
BU_lulz: meh, just some dude who knows one of the regulars here through a friend
BU_lulz: not trying to get deep into the WOT or anything
BU_lulz: just felt like dropping in
ben_vulpes: !!down BU_lulz
ben_vulpes: get in the wot or get right the fuck out
trinque: haw
ben_vulpes: has the stones to "make a vpn" whatever that means to the average bu tard, but not to make a key and get in the wot
ben_vulpes: subhuman trash
asciilifeform: cheapo, single-barreled ninjashotgun.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you mean robert viragh ?
asciilifeform: in the generic.
asciilifeform: it's a type of vermin.
mircea_popescu: dude (mullvad)'s been following since forever.
asciilifeform: !#s mullvad
a111: 2 results for "mullvad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mullvad
mircea_popescu: Jan 25 02:21:50 * novusordo (~wut@dns.mullvad.net) has joined #bitcoin-otc << that's feb 2012.
asciilifeform: ain't that a vpn co ?
mircea_popescu: ah is it ?
asciilifeform: https://www.mullvad.net >> 'World-class, online privacy ...'
asciilifeform: as in fact ben_vulpes noticed earlier.
mircea_popescu: i just thought it was one dude with an obscure web service. who knows.
asciilifeform: no indication that he is anything other than a subscriber
asciilifeform: to 'mullvad'
mircea_popescu: fair point.
mircea_popescu: the allotment of identity to the peons is a largely irrelevant if entirely complex business.
asciilifeform: it's not even like memory will leak if you forget to free() them.
asciilifeform: (or world will melt if you do it twice)
ben_vulpes: reject the wot, even humorously, at your own risk.
ben_vulpes: question will now float, "which 'regular' didn't beat elementary manners into his wannabe vassals?"
danielpbarron: hah i was thinking "hope it's not me he's referring to"
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't put too much stock.
asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, 'nqb' reads & parses a full 1MB block, with 2218 tx, and recreates it from fast-form, again to disk, in 0.123 sec. on a 3GHz opteron cum ssd.
mircea_popescu: ah that's not bad at all.
ben_vulpes: next time someone says "i know a feller", next question is "which feller?"
mircea_popescu: "oh nobody in particular"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well that's merely the mechanical process, no tx index queries, no scriptolade use.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: still.
ben_vulpes: i know in point of fact that i've demonstrated how candidates for voice are to introduce themselves before.
asciilifeform: fuzzed it, in various ways, ada bounds checking worx like a champ in all cases
asciilifeform: (every variable knows what its expected range is, and said bounds are checked on any assignment)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno bout you, but erry time i went after hours to nominally girls only student whore warehouse facilities i was there to "visit my cousin" and when crashing a party it'd be a case of "you've got my sister in there, now do i have to get a cop."
mircea_popescu: relations are cheap in anonworld.
ben_vulpes: these ebon pillars don't like that.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wtf is an ebon pillar
ben_vulpes: columns variously ionic and dorian, made of ebony
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's a reference ot that most best read trilema piece, teh la zuleika
ben_vulpes: ^
mircea_popescu: which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org
ben_vulpes: epic pile btw, i don't believe for a second 4chan has worked through it yet.
asciilifeform still cannot help but think that a zuleika oughta be an obsolete musical instrument, something like a cross between a zurna and a жалейка
mircea_popescu: i suppose if author of finnigan's wake inquires, i've never read it now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe a digeridoo
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes had you read the original ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 0.067 sec. btw is the avg, 0.123 was fluke.
danielpbarron is on the last leg of that story
mircea_popescu is taking a grim sort of pleasure in the observation that it takes about as long to read as it took to write.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta like the block!111
mircea_popescu: lol for srs.