log
▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
mircea_popescu: and in other random, isn't it funny that for all the millions of dorks going about finding "contradictions in the bible" there can't be had a single dork going about seeking "contradictions in wikipedia" ?
mircea_popescu: almost as if it were the case the whole "contradictions" bs is really a subcase of "unearthing hypocrisy", ie the traditional codeword of the inept adolescent "fighting" with authority.
mircea_popescu: because why should there be any!
ben_vulpes: a BUILDING full of feeble minded liberals
ben_vulpes: and it takes ME
ben_vulpes: LOSING MY PATIENCE with the NOISE WHEN I GO TO PISS
ben_vulpes: to fix the UNENDING STREAM of precious bull run DRINKING WATER FLOWING THROUGH THE TOILET
ben_vulpes: and i didn't even need to bring any tools! or wire to extend the chain!
ben_vulpes: JUST UN FUCKING KINK IT
ben_vulpes: and LO
ben_vulpes: the waste has now STOPPED
ben_vulpes: on a floor where very nearly every door features a black lives matter and "in our democracy love wins"
ben_vulpes: and yet nobody except for the guy who benefits barely an iota from the fixing of the externality shoveling appears to give the slightest shit about the wasting of the single greatest blessing after my dick this metropolis has ever enjoyed
ben_vulpes: i will be SURE to listen VERY CLOSELY the next time a portlander has something to say about environmental justice and global warming.
asciilifeform: where are you ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: aand why.
mircea_popescu: i dunno but sounds like they might've vaporised something in that wc.
asciilifeform: whereas i finally have a quadracode reader. courtesy of an ex-ratshack's cash register.
mircea_popescu: cool.
asciilifeform: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/090DE0A92A6663072D4E9A404B6399E98F59D4C4C4825A31B580100BF4CB72B9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2258784834417548090216554557864463 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Kristian Biss (Mfr Voll Name) <Kristian.Biss@piraten-mfr.de>; Trotzik (Bei Zeus die Dicken schon wieder) <trotzik@piraten-mfr.de>; '
mircea_popescu: !!key JonDough
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/4681799E4A3839FB6267BA99698534526C751CD3
mircea_popescu: trinque ^ 404 ?
phf: !#vulpes
a111: JUST UN FUCKING KINK IT
phf: !#vulpes
a111: a BUILDING full of feeble minded liberals
shinohai: lel
mircea_popescu: !#phf
mircea_popescu: oh I SEE HOW IT IS
phf: get yo own bot
mircea_popescu: our democracy is based on love!
shinohai: Censorship!
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long until they market the democrachip.
phf: i think the word chip is ruined for marketing purposes by clipper
phf: i moved into a new place closer to the lizards, had a funny exchange in the lobby. this lady "got lucky" and "bought a house at list price" because apparently "everyone's scared because of the upcoming impeachment".
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, there's a price higher than list ?
phf: i will probably get this wrong, but as far as i understand, here houses are sold any arbitrary number above list, and it's whatever seller can get away with
mircea_popescu: uh.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would anyone buy if they're not getting a discount from list.
mircea_popescu: i guess i've been doing it wrong all these years ?!
mircea_popescu: seems to go against the most basic logic -- if the asset is worth more than its list in your hands, why should i take over management ? clearly you know what you';re doing and should keep doing it.
mircea_popescu: or what, you're going to tell me these prices aren't based on discounted cash flows and other such actuarial judgements ? in the world's greatest economy the world's smartest people acting like a bunch of nation of africa retards ? unthinkabru!
phf: it's an investment in your future and the future of your family
mircea_popescu: yes, if you buy it at a discount.
mircea_popescu: otherwise it's an investment in the other guy and his fambly.
phf: it's an excellent place to raise the kids, have you consulted with your wife?
phf: in this market the price is only going to go up, so you can flip the house when you are ready for retirement
mircea_popescu: i dun has a wife ;/
mircea_popescu: but i do occasionally buy at list price, for small occasionals like say when going out to a restaurant. i could have the slavegirls replicate anything on the menu, and it would come out even better half the time, but unless i care it's not worth the hassle.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck buys large or repeating items at list and why the everfucking love would they.
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine these people are all trillionaires and so couldn't possibly care less about a million-ish item, chiefly because the us has no trillionaires.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-fixed-phpminiadmin-v-19170312/ << Trilema - How I fixed phpMiniAdmin (v 1.9.170312)
mircea_popescu: ^ take that, asciilifeform ! ha-HA!
asciilifeform reads
mircea_popescu: javascript idiots actually implemented base64 as "btoa" and "atob".
mircea_popescu: WORST. fucking function names. ever.
mircea_popescu: i spent five whole minutes belabouring under the misapprehension that it's metasyntactic reference, some sort of prototype and you gotta replace the a and b.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what does the proggy actually do ?
mircea_popescu: which makes no sense, except NEITHER DOES ANYTHING ELSE THEY DO
asciilifeform: i've not used it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform web interface, prepopulates selects and etc so you don't have to type them.
asciilifeform: aah
mircea_popescu: also loads various infos on screen so you don't keep having to go "explain x" to see what x.table is ACTUYALLY named
asciilifeform: high-tech
asciilifeform: all i got is a txt full of schema and various crib sheet...
mircea_popescu: it's a cannonical example of what gui is/needs to be, obviously command line works but fuck me, really, i will type select so and so by hand each time all the time ?
asciilifeform: !!up ave1
deedbot: ave1 voiced for 30 minutes.
ave1: Hello, I've been reading the ffa code
ave1: I've come up with this mod-exp function:
ave1: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rXBLV/?raw=true
asciilifeform: your square is needlessly slow
ave1: It's a basic adaptation of what you can find on the web
asciilifeform: aha
ave1: Yes I was thinking that too
ave1: (about the square)
asciilifeform: only reason i haven't posted one yet is the square, presently making a proper one
asciilifeform: otherwise looks quite like yours, ave1
asciilifeform: who, incidentally, might you be, ave1 ?
ave1: aha, I also tried division first
ave1: Just reader of the logs for past year or so
asciilifeform: maybe register with deedbot, delurk ?
ave1: yes I have registered...
mircea_popescu: !!key ave1
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/57EE94EA6F2049A47DAFA8568F4CE8F777BC59F9.asc
mircea_popescu: !!rate ave1 1 slow square!
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iHm49/?raw=true
asciilifeform: lol
ave1: my division was many times slower (as I did a shift N left on every iteration)
asciilifeform: latest posted ver has division btw.
mircea_popescu: how to ensure a rating ? make it fucking irresistible lol.
ave1: I noticed, very elegant
mircea_popescu: ave1 you can self-voice now, say !!up to deedbot whenever.
ave1: many thx mircea!
ave1: at least trying first, made understanding it a lot easier
asciilifeform: ave1, mod6 , phf , et al -- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MlSwC/?raw=true << most recent.
mircea_popescu: and appreciating it also.
ave1: yes
mircea_popescu suspects this may well be alf's favourite passtime. the endless field of register-clever, like a sort of chess.
asciilifeform: !!rate ave1 1 ada lurker
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tYWMC/?raw=true
asciilifeform: !!v 9098459089A87712E2E8DDDCD679D58F5C31000BF385454A18A68F812A5BE23F
deedbot: asciilifeform rated ave1 1 << ada lurker
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-fixed-phpminiadmin-v-19170312/#comment-122063 << holy shit almighty, would you look at that ?
mircea_popescu: i had to talk of javascript. who the fuck thinks like this, i wish to know, "oh, i'll htmlencode a string and then replace some of the escaped items".
mircea_popescu: inb4 "it's because unicode, mp!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the idiotlang where ~all you get is string transforms
asciilifeform was reading, for lulz, a js bignumatron , a few days ago, and marveling at the sheer wtf
mircea_popescu: imo the lang is fine, the unicode is bullshit, in this case.
asciilifeform: incidentally there can be no question of fixed-time ops in there
mircea_popescu: numbers, diff story.
mircea_popescu: heh, nevermind fixed time -- no question of fixed result ops.
asciilifeform: i'd rather write in befunge.
mircea_popescu: maybe your 5+4 = 9.0000001, maybe .99999997, depends on arch
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657733 << y'know php, i naively thought that market for, say, key escrow, was also ruined by clipper. but turns out no! goxes, keybases, etc. abound.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 12:28 phf: i think the word chip is ruined for marketing purposes by clipper
mircea_popescu: ahahaha he called him php
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: phf ^
asciilifeform: them fingers betray.
Framedragger: lang is fine??? i will remind peeps of http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html
Framedragger: Number.prototype.valueOf = function(){return 42;};
mircea_popescu: Framedragger "imo the lang is fine, the unicode is bullshit, ~in this case~. numbers, diff story."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657734 << apparently this is the new fecal consensus -- nyt et al running 24/7 ads 'impeach nao!111' etc☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 12:36 phf: i moved into a new place closer to the lizards, had a funny exchange in the lobby. this lady "got lucky" and "bought a house at list price" because apparently "everyone's scared because of the upcoming impeachment".
Framedragger: now every number equals 42! everywhere, on your whole site / 'app'!
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah yeah kk, terms
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657737 << as i understand it, house 'buying' (virtually nobody actually buys , in usa, they take out massive mortgage) by a human, is not a financial transaction in the usual sense, in the sense you buy petrol . it is instead a fat-harvesting transaction, where you pay 100% of what the lizards weigh you to be worth.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 12:40 phf: i will probably get this wrong, but as far as i understand, here houses are sold any arbitrary number above list, and it's whatever seller can get away with
asciilifeform: ( granted this is different for 'investors' who buy'em up by the 1000. speaking here of humans who want place to live. )
mircea_popescu: in qntra news today, https://мвд.рф/news/item/10246388/
asciilifeform: lol!!!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't comprehend this logic. how exactly is economy supposed to cease functioning once you enter your own door ? does water, strictly flowing downhill at the office, change its mind at home ? do you see it jump out of the sink, against gravity, and figure "oh, but of course, i'm not at work anymore duh!"
mircea_popescu: seems to me same old thermodynamics applies at "work" and at "home". maybe i've just not had the right wife yet ?
asciilifeform: it's the logic of big-G constant. planet -- can hold atmosphere; piece of orbital rubbish - not.
mircea_popescu: this'd seem to explain why the redditards are single, as opposed to harem'd. not why they're poor.
asciilifeform: why are auschwitz inmates poor ?
asciilifeform: same concept.
asciilifeform: there's a harvester, it harvests, wat.
mircea_popescu: i don't see it. piece of orbital rubbish 1/10^9 of planet doesn't go "you know what, your force isn't enough to move planet a meter, but i'll move 2*10^9 meters because hey, i'm just piece of rubbish not planet!
mircea_popescu: you want to lift a gram, you need a mN just like if you want to move a ton you need 1kN. there's no tiny discounts.
asciilifeform: real estate is quantized, asciilifeform can't go and buy a ~usable~ square metre of land for 1000 $
mircea_popescu: and from this it follows asciilifeform will go and donate $1k to "real estate quantizer" ?
mircea_popescu: if you can't buy, it just means IT CANT SELL.
asciilifeform: not directly. but it follows that he will sit on 1000 $ until it gets eaten by inflation ( or alternatively vodka, or whichever )
mircea_popescu: even leaving bitcoin aside, there's obviously bangladesh.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, north korea, i guess.
asciilifeform: 'hi, this is pyongyang? i'ma a schmuck in usa, i want to buy a square metre'
asciilifeform: 'whaddayamean you only take gold dubloons'
mircea_popescu: you'd go and see the square metre in wash swamp, if you were to buy it, yes ?
mircea_popescu: same principle.
mircea_popescu: and i have like a suspicion north korea would take dollars if available.
asciilifeform: physical dollars - possibly
mircea_popescu: so then.
asciilifeform: upstack -- point is that nobody's about to run city pipes to a square metre.
mircea_popescu: it's utterly unclear waht your chosen straw man has to do with the discussion, but anyway.
asciilifeform: ( recall marvin heemeyer aka 'killdozer' d00d and his encircled machine shop ? apparently rules re 'easements' are complicated. )
asciilifeform: i dun see how this is unclear, if i walk into bezzlebroker with 1% of what house costs, i can't walk out with 1% of a house.
mircea_popescu: the discussion was re buying at list / retail is for suckers / buying assets implicitly means they are discounted / stuff like that.
asciilifeform: can't disagree here
mircea_popescu: the core is the simple observation that if your trade value of whatever item is above book value, you should continue to manage it, not me.
asciilifeform: the only negotiating leverage available to the plebe, however, is not to buy. at all.
mircea_popescu: because obviously you're doing a good job of it.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657756 << naming scheme possibly lifted from c's `atoi`, heh☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 13:01 mircea_popescu: WORST. fucking function names. ever.
mircea_popescu: wtf is atoi
asciilifeform: which turns out is not actually a button that's connected. by paying mega-rent, asciilifeform is buying OTHER d00d a house.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: string to int
mod6: ascii to int
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: so what"s atoi("hurr") ?
asciilifeform: eggog
Framedragger: is itoa implemented in stdlib by default, then, as expected? NO! because fuck you
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what this is. so what does it do, changes the string 9 to the numeral 9 ?
Framedragger: literally eggog (undefined)
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya
Framedragger: it spits back an int if it can parse the ascii string into one
Framedragger: otherwise fucks your wife
mircea_popescu: and "9.5 10^8" too ? or other random formats ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is literally free to produce whatever rubbish it likes. because this is somehow useful to the folx who were dropped as children and wrote unix.
Framedragger: only base 10 digits iirc
mircea_popescu: apparently they DID lift it from there then.
mircea_popescu: heck, might've lifted whole language from this paradigm.
Framedragger: the best take from the best
mircea_popescu: apparently i lived a whole life without doing these strange conversions.
Framedragger: well yes, JS is a mixture of things, Self, C, etc, the best mixture of them all
mircea_popescu: is it actually stdlib ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379892 << see also oblig-naggum☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 17:28 asciilifeform: it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: one is stdlib, the other one (itoa iirc) is not!
mircea_popescu: i learned c at some point, but this left no trace somehow.
Framedragger: in which we realise mircea_popescu's source of sanity
mircea_popescu: forgetfulness ?
Framedragger: gc!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657831 << i dun wanna let this slip by . so : '12 May , the dept. of IT and information defense of the ru ministry of internal affairs detected a malware attack against PCs belonging to the ministry which were running Windows.',☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 13:31 mircea_popescu: in qntra news today, https://мвд.рф/news/item/10246388/
asciilifeform: 'On account of timely measures, about a thousand infected machines were blocked off , which constituted less than 1%'. (?)
Framedragger: (related, via punkman http://boingboing.net/2017/05/17/prophylactic-bricking.html )
mircea_popescu: o hey, check it out, elbrus running java.
mircea_popescu: 1/3 < 1/100
asciilifeform: 'Servers belonging to the ministry were not infected on account of the use of alternative operating system and natively produced servers using the ru elbrus cpu'
asciilifeform: 'currently the activity of the virus is localized. leakage of official information from ministry machines is wholly ruled out, quoth the official representative of same, ...'
asciilifeform: etc.
mircea_popescu: is this per hectare ?
asciilifeform: 'the real nexus of this photo is the government official with the "you've got to be kidding me" expression, who exists in a power-structure that requires solemn professions of belief in this powerful weirdo's dumb rituals (including, but not limited to, spraying electronic devices with water, and not because a computer that has been rendered inoperable due to electrical faults is incidentally and thoroughly immune to malware)' >>>>>
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=428
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nfi re the actual meaning of the linked text. simply translated.
mircea_popescu: back in the old days, all the successes used to be per hectare ;/
asciilifeform: it is an obvious product of people who have nfi what the subject matter even is, and simply pasted fragments in microshit word together.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: just fyi, the site (osalabs.com) loads - you don't have a root CA which signed their certificate (letsencrypt cert). of course the point is still valid
mircea_popescu: why should they know. they just want to wifechildrenhome amirite.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger awww.
mircea_popescu: he missed out on getting a trilema link because of the letsencrypt bs ?
mircea_popescu: well, i can only hope they're paying him enough to compensate.
asciilifeform: iirc it was (is?) this thing that gives away ssl certs for phree
mircea_popescu: "girl missed out on date because someone gave out garbage for free and she rubbed it all over. FREE!!111"
asciilifeform: in protest against the nonsense where people ( who insisted on using ssl, but originally this was made mandatory for users of visa ) had to pay rentseeking hucksters thousands for 'this cert will work and browsers won't complain'
mircea_popescu: so is visa paying oleg enough to compensate him for the loss of trilema link ?
asciilifeform: i have nfi why folx volunteer to use ssl.
mircea_popescu: apparently, for same reason they buy real estate above list price.
mircea_popescu: something something wife something something fambly, something something alt-universe at home where water flows uphill.
Framedragger: i've seen ~sane uses of ssl, with self-signed pinned cert (verified via side channel). it happens.
Framedragger: yesyes, the whole format is broken, yes EC, so basically almost as bad as bitcoin :)
mircea_popescu: what, ec with arbitrary curves ?
mircea_popescu: there's layers to this ec story.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: format is broken in ways that dun even have to do with crypto (e.g. toggles for silently turning off whatever elements)
Framedragger: i don't recall but i believe you can define ~all the params for DH key exchange in ssl, i think
asciilifeform: plus heartbleeds etc.
Framedragger: as an example
asciilifeform: it's a multi-meg atrocity, it is broken DEFINITIONALLY
Framedragger: there is that
Framedragger: anyway, why mircea_popescu prefers one shit-CA over the other, i'm not sure
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why the specifics need even be discussed. who cares WHAT was in the dumpster girly put on her head ? point remains, FREE!!11 is a garbage heuristic.
mircea_popescu: i do ?
mircea_popescu: dude, archive.is can't load his dumbass site. what do you want from me.
Framedragger: you have some CA roots, therefore you (implicitly or explicitly) prefer some, neh?
mircea_popescu: i don't even care, myself!
Framedragger: it can't? it loaded it for me! huh
mircea_popescu: really ?
mircea_popescu: link ?
Framedragger: https://archive.is/Yzbbj
mircea_popescu: isn't that from years ago ?
mircea_popescu: nevermind the 2015. gimme a 2017 version.
Framedragger: hah, it's loading but seems to be stuck. lol
mircea_popescu: and in general -- if curl -k can't get you, you really don't exist.
Framedragger: yesyes.
Framedragger: yup, archive.is failed on new site
Framedragger: ic.
Framedragger: i wonder if it's due to the cert. probably yes. yeah, sad!
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would some kid want his blog on https is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: "oh, it has advantages!11". i'm sure it does. you also miss out on trilema links. let me know when those advantages even it out.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, you wouldn't be linking to me anyway" "and this says what about you ?"
Framedragger: that i don't understand, either. all them web designers, too, gotta protect those PNGs in transit
Framedragger: (but i thought this protects me from gobmint spying!)
mircea_popescu: and in other random, apparently the proper way to say chocolate in cr is xocolata.
mircea_popescu: shit's fabulous though.
Framedragger: (virtue signalling i suppose)
mircea_popescu: it absolutely is that, just like the unthinking http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657708 bullshit.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 01:52 ben_vulpes: on a floor where very nearly every door features a black lives matter and "in our democracy love wins"
mircea_popescu used to have a very poor reaction / low tolerance to ineptitude in that vein "oh i shouldnt end up naked on the first date" from chicks who saw stupid americana on tv and imagined it's an example to follow back when he was 16. it deteriorated over time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657821 << for extra lulz, Framedragger , that thing turns to liquishit on all browsers, on all of my boxes☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 13:27 Framedragger: lang is fine??? i will remind peeps of http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html
asciilifeform: or at least all tried thus far. ( i suspect that it doesn't like vertical display )
asciilifeform: surprising number of gui proggies -- don't
asciilifeform: almost as if they have a if (xres < yres) barf()
mircea_popescu: wtf is it, pdf in html ?
Framedragger: :(. it's a pdf-to-js'totron. myeah.
Framedragger: pdf almost saner in this instance. fwiw i did try with lynx, it showed the text. but yeah.
asciilifeform: the funny bit is that i have 0 problem reading actual pdf, even have dedicated hardware for it
asciilifeform: but this nonsense -- no
mircea_popescu: dude check it out!
Framedragger: it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
mircea_popescu: m8{transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.237500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m4{transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.245000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m2{transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.247500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m0{transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.250000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m3{transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m7{transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.252500,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m1{transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: .m6{transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-ms-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);-webkit-transform:matrix(0.255000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000,0,0);}
mircea_popescu: why THE FUCK does this exist ?
Framedragger: preserve fonts and pdf formatting? yeahyeah.
mircea_popescu: are you kidding me ?
mircea_popescu: !!up moli_
deedbot: moli_ voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657897 << "due to heroic actions of Praporshchik Sidorenko, the aggressor has been neutralized, but unfortunately resulted in death of selfsame praporshchik, who will be awarded a medal posthumously, and his vdova will receive 500 rubbles in recognition of his heroism"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 13:51 asciilifeform: 'On account of timely measures, about a thousand infected machines were blocked off , which constituted less than 1%'. (?)
mircea_popescu: matrix transforms, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591144 and on it goes☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:44 mircea_popescu: holy shit "Quaternion.Euler" is a full blown core function. and wait, there's more : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/765683/when-to-use-quaternion-vs-euler-angles.html
mircea_popescu: basically webtards fucking love math or what is it ?
Framedragger: guess so.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still lem ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger a cursory look at the pile (complete, btw) makes it obvious matrices were not the correct approach for this problem, whatever it might have been.
mircea_popescu: there's also one thousand lines of spurious nonsense in the vein of .x3e{left:412.722800pt;}
mircea_popescu: really, six digit pt ?
mircea_popescu: and THEN the WHOLE thing is five lines of div id="pf1" class="pf w0 h0" data-page-no="1"><div class="pc pc1 w0 h0"><img class="bi x0 y0 w1 h1" alt="" src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAABC4AAAWfCAIAAADrrCCVAAAACXBIWXMAABYlAAAWJQFJUiTwAAAgAElEQVR42uzdW5Mjx5n/9zzVAUCju+dAUlpqJfmvXa/DYb8IvwiH354vfOkX5QuHI/6SOJzpA1BVmfk8vsBwOBoOyUaiqlDo/n5idyNE7Qy7C4XM/OXhSauq5pKlrhs+3J3yN/i2bW6uDQDgku3++9+P/SOrt2+s9zw6ADgXxyMAAFw6
mircea_popescu: FSn4U9bRCQIAUQQAgJOySNEKv7U8OQAgigAAUC7HeHT/FwLPDQCIIgAAnEaOXhWxRBEAIIoAAHCiglURX1U8NwAgigAAcBJN6fgOkIMiAHBmLE8DAC6eHB9FWBUBgH+hmvr+6CzRtkQRAMAL7j2LKvlSPgsAvmhLj72sz7ftiVGEDVoAgEvvP0sq+XKpCAB8ruDQnT15pysNMQDgxXWfVPIFgC8dX4rQnbzTlSgCAHhx3SeVfAHgCyXTOt4TRQAAdJ/H4cw6AHyhoBTh6TtdiSIAgBfXfVLJFwC+UFCK0LIqAgCg+zz2j7AqAgCfKyxFeDKiCADgovvPkvJZVPIFgBPbUl/XRBEAwMvuPYtm8qjkCwCfKzh0Z8ZoSGmLAQAXTFI+uuejfBYAfNmYHr8q0rAqAgB42VSPXhWhki8AfKHkf
mircea_popescu: kPLqggA4IV3n/1wdM8XPM8NAD5XUIpwlLaUKAIAuGTHnxU5vfokADy3pvQcl4oQRQAAly0PBasibNACgJ8VVvIdoxQhUQQAcLn9Z0klX0slXwA4rS0dpZIvUQQAcMm9Z1klXzZoAcBnCkoRmpFKohNFAAAvqPvkRhEA+EJBKcJRKvkSRQAAL6v7dCNtKgCAZ6OgFOEolXyJIgCAl9V9UskXAL50/GbXsdpSoggA4AV1nxwUAYAvFJQitJwVAQDQfR7d7VHJFwA+V1SK0IxUipAoAgB4Qd0nlXwB4F+a0pLdWaPN6RBFAAAvpfs0bNACgH9VUoqQKAIAIIoc3X1SyRcAvmhLCyr5VhVRBADwokk+eiaPSr4A8IWCUoTGjbbTldN7l5xiRX65VZq9B199RJLyp9Bvrfu8Ah1PbOkf4mfDTR
mircea_popescu: X5fPTpQvi075/P8SVGkRiP/SPWXeRBka+29uawyMPRl5+eT/7N9+FTy89DM6q/tqJIQ/pSG9NzrooQRS5jKHYYSR9ia+66J+XVEGwILnjrvQvBef8SGl/NOceY+0FTkpSO+FLVtXHOV5WrgvWeXRxn+ewOSUNiVFEZhrKDdDYEPscXMwA9+ti6G6/7nGhIrSKS0rHfgk8tmPX+0OzT1P/OE2tbF7wLlavCM24oDg/KiOYYjcgTK85Z51xdW2ddVb2c8cNLVlCKcMRXwmpZAa/FSF03fLg75W/wbdvcXC8uoKYkQ8x9X/J+/PoozdWVrxtfV8+pWVGRPAx53434rIwxYb0KbetCWMKz0pz3//zhxL9k9fbNogYohz5SYpQhlg0mnvg5Pr93Hge7//73Y/9I+/rV0tLIp1F1Wfz+jXDim8b
mircea_popescu: V1fMpXqyah5i67onzcUeMhJwL65VvmufwrFQlpTwMuetHbFddCL5tXKiW05YWdItLGO+V9ebr776decAwm+pqw6rIwhJIPLSz/Ygd0r/Em5TSbn/opcJ6fenjs9wP8eFholFs2u0/PavqarPwydSLecMnyNhP/BxdCNXVlW84KvCiLWf+W1LKfZ92+ylae2NMHobDt+wZjLMPPePhizzJ6FAkPjzGh8fDs6rW64vrGVVEYkq73URNq6QkD+nTgL5ar87eJ+bL3J850ff9X9PoJa0xWO+JIkuZxkh9H+8fZnhHv+ilDs3uha3mq8bdLj48zves3g2X20U
mircea_popescu: tell you what, if i wanted to put uncacheable pngs somewhere on the web, i'd have NOT needed 1k lines of six decimal place pt specifications nor inept matrices and their useless transforms.
phf: pretty much as close as it gets to pdf-izing html
mircea_popescu: next time just load the fucking images, as images, like trilema does it.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657972☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:10 Framedragger: it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
Framedragger: maybe i missed it.
phf: that transform:matrix is the "standard" way of doing object positioning and movement (they displacement is optimized in gpu, so if you're actually moving objects around it's faster then css x,y positioning)
mircea_popescu: and if you aren't actually moving objects around, it's just dead weight.
phf: i'm not sure why jump through these hoops for static content though. position:absolute; left: top: still work
mircea_popescu: similarily to how the millionth fraction of a pt is meaningful if you print a km sq picture of all the cunts of all the women currently alive and then intend to go check out the indvidual ingrown hairs with a magnifying glass.
moli_: hi thanks for voicing, i just want to let you guys know bamb0u has been smearing your name on bitcoin core slack
mircea_popescu: of course the cunts in question wouldn't actually be fonts, but anyway. wtf-8.
mircea_popescu: moli_ what's a bitcoin core slack ?
moli_: it's a stupid slack to house people like bamb0u
mircea_popescu: so then what's the problem.
moli_: nothing, how you doing, mircea_popescu ? you've been quiet on the media
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you are aware that item does nothing whatsoever, you could have published screenshots for the same effect.
Framedragger: in retrospect i *should* have published screenshots. at this rate original pdf is sorta-better.
Framedragger: :(
mircea_popescu: moli_ i think the media's just as petrified of saying my name today as years ago.
moli_: i really hope so
mircea_popescu: anyway, there was a sort-of working js to txt item alf was demonstrating at some point. i dun recall where it ended up.
mircea_popescu: !!up gargantus
deedbot: gargantus voiced for 30 minutes.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yes, to text yes, hence why i said plaintext is the easy part ^. but you're right, maybe text is the way to go in these shitcases...
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine why it wouldn't be.
Framedragger: for one, there are some lulzy screenshots showing the insanity of JS event loop, and exceptions, and css rendering, etc.
Framedragger: but myeah.
mircea_popescu: really. i don't want to watch some dork on video. i don't want to watch his stupid slides. i don't want to watch his facebook. really all this "rich content", diagrams-hyelogryphs-bs is only there because illiterate monkey has nothing to say.
Framedragger: i disagree that visuals cannot add more than text all of the time. best way to depict broken css rendering is to depict it.
Framedragger: of course, usually the medium is misused - sure.
mircea_popescu: depict in as what, adding some screenshots in the text ?
Framedragger: yes
Framedragger: i see yer point :)
mircea_popescu: the content is never the problem. it always and universally goes to shit when they attempt to control ~the consumption~ of content. hence drm and css, hence return mid paragraph "because i don't want YOU to scroll horizontally" etc.
mircea_popescu: all of it is the same thing, a deeply misguided attempt to control the reception of the message. focus on the fucking message.
mircea_popescu: i'll receive it as i'll receive it, that's my problem.
mircea_popescu: girls going "i don't know how to tell you this" are in for a beating on the strength of that alone, meanwhile whole generation of dorks having not much to say at all fretting ineptly about ~the way~ they're saying it / "presenting themselves" expect this to somehow work.
mircea_popescu: it dun work, it's just that nobody loves them enough to beat them for it.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, soap operas, action movies, talk shows etc haven't replaced literature strictly because there's no way to say "we're in the business of emission, make your own fucking receiver sets" when it comes to television. that and no more.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657992 << nah, standard formulation☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still lem ?
mircea_popescu: i thought that's what a lem is.
asciilifeform: lem was this polish d00d
mircea_popescu: and theo rem was german!
asciilifeform: !~google stanislaw lem
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Stanisław Lem - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%25C5%2582aw_Lem>; List of works by Stanisław Lem and their adaptations - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Stanis%25C5%2582aw_Lem_and_their_adaptations>; Stanislaw Lem : the official site: <https://lem.pl/>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm just fucking around!
asciilifeform: lolk
asciilifeform: i have no doubt mircea_popescu knew . but for l0gz/n00bs ^ subj.
mircea_popescu: i'm bitter because i misidentified some quote a while back
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1657972 << this is a mis-priored problem and will have atrocious 'solutions', guaranteed.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:10 Framedragger: it'd really be great if there were a ~decent pdf2html tool, with no JS. and i don't mean just "extract and dump plaintext", i can do that, too.
asciilifeform: it's a little bit like asking for a nonsense-to-sense converter.
mircea_popescu: babbage did it!
asciilifeform: lolaha.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, that's prolly the only acceptable definition of intelligence.
mircea_popescu: "only nonsense-to-sense converter known in nature"
mircea_popescu: suddenly puts the ai as digital-machine-intelligence problem in its proper perspective, and also supplies a very good explanation for the genysym issue. people going think() are ACTUALLY approaching the river at the other end.
mircea_popescu: the reason our brains work and computers don't is, to a significant portion, that our brains actually define what PASSES FOR sense.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658008 << idea was, you ~are~ 'moving' objects by asking them to be laid out on a display of unknown (to author) resolution. this began as a ~sane 'postscript' and bloviated into a usgologic monstrosity, pdf☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:19 mircea_popescu: and if you aren't actually moving objects around, it's just dead weight.
asciilifeform: but the PROBLEM was an intrinsically WRONG problem to have to begin with
mircea_popescu: and whyssat ?
asciilifeform: it isn't a thing which anyone, outside a printing house perhaps, has any business doing on a regular basis.
mircea_popescu: oh, because everyone watches the internet on standard issue tvs ?
asciilifeform: well no, because (originally) reflowtron.
mircea_popescu: hm ?
asciilifeform: it was actually mircea_popescu who convinced me of this. that reflowable text was a step in right direction.
mircea_popescu: but this wasn't a core item in the original was it ?
asciilifeform: which original ? postscript ? it was intended for printer
mircea_popescu: yes, ps.
asciilifeform: because printer ( of the print house variety, not asciilifeform's old rattler ) takes pages, not scroll
mircea_popescu: while i think it's broadly true that ps yielded tex and pdf in world and gutter respectively, it's not clear the ps folk understood reflow, or generally speaking the problem they were trying to approach.
mircea_popescu: more of a "i just wanna my printer to"
asciilifeform: tex predates
mircea_popescu: as usage i mean, not as the item.
asciilifeform: ps had 0 to do with reflow, it was specifically made for nonreflowing ( bounded layout ) devices
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's theory -- we got pdf (postscript on comp display, really) because of the barfalicious failures of the www folx ( html etc )
mircea_popescu: anyway ; afaik the whole reason tex exists is because sometime in early 80s/ late 70s knuth got some galley proofs from the new photo process and hated them
mircea_popescu: those galley proofs were made in a pre-ps.
asciilifeform: pre-tex, typesetting was ~manual process
mircea_popescu: nah.
asciilifeform: and folx with 5th grade education were typesetting equations etc
mircea_popescu: there WAS the molten metal tech, same as what they printed the 1929 nyt on. but cca 1970s it was replaced by photo
asciilifeform: 'manual' i did not mean 'same as gutenberg'
mircea_popescu: ftr knuth liked the first edition (metal), hated 2nd.
asciilifeform: but 'not direct loop from mathematician to photosetter'
asciilifeform: i.e. an unwanted set of human hands in between.
mircea_popescu: phototypesetting, it's a thing, uses lenses instead of lead.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: ( phunphakt : troff originally was a driver for one )
mircea_popescu: and they had you know, linotypes and stuff. dedicated computrons.
mircea_popescu: (including the only items with pit style monitors, other than in alfs home, that i ever knew of.)
mircea_popescu: anyway. afaik that's what ps came from.
asciilifeform: the ~physical~ process of typesetting had already matured then, aha
asciilifeform: (today it is approx. same as then)
asciilifeform: tex was concerned with the ~logical~ end.
asciilifeform: ditto postscript (dealt with other end of the funnel -- the low-level pixel-pushing, rather than 'what to do with equations')
mircea_popescu: point being, there was some software running the crap knuth didn't like, wrote replacement.
mircea_popescu: but, postscript is NOT the invention of some adobe dorks. postscript was a thing cca 1976, and stolen, ~wholly, from already existing print process, by eg warnock.
phf: how's that?
mircea_popescu: which is what i mean. ps (that eventually yielded pdf, and also what you apparently think is ps) yielded tex through knuth's reaction to it.
asciilifeform: by same logic could say it was stolen from chuck moore's forth
mircea_popescu: phf how's what ? dude at some company was trying to print geodata.
asciilifeform: it was not a wholly unprecedented item, no.
asciilifeform: very much a synthesis-invention
mircea_popescu: it was entirely not novel.
mircea_popescu: the adobe ps is the warnock wtf he called it, system something or the other. xerox parc also had something, of course, but it died out.
mircea_popescu: (ie, they hired warnock, he rewrote it for them)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658022 << iirc it was just a sh script to rasterize the pages to jpegs ! a la http://www.loper-os.org/pub/hl/hl.html .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, there was a sort-of working js to txt item alf was demonstrating at some point. i dun recall where it ended up.
asciilifeform: this a) sucks for text, can no longer search, cut/paste but b) for most of my pdf this is ALREADY so, because they were ancient scans
asciilifeform: funnily enough the problem of 'how to store scans without losing ANYTHING' was long ago solved : 'djvu' (ancient bell labs thing, i use it every day)
asciilifeform: wavelet compressor.
Framedragger: incidentally that ^ looks like an interesting piece on automata!
asciilifeform: Framedragger: we had entire thread, re subj
asciilifeform: and extensions thereof
Framedragger: nice.
asciilifeform: djvu has some annoying quirks ( lossy compressor, so sometimes, e.g., И turns into Н on entire page ) but otherwise mindblowingly great tech, a scan that'd be 400M in pdf, can be 4 , and actually uses the res of whatever display you have, incl. printer, to display ~= original
mircea_popescu: text shouldn't have backwards N in it anyway.
asciilifeform: but it is narrowly specific to scans. doesn't do vector-graphics a la postscript
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: :D
Framedragger: lol GoL in excel (via trinque) http://www.tushar-mehta.com/publish_train/xl_vba_cases/0906%20conways%20game%20of%20life.shtml
Framedragger: yeah djvu is great for what it does. never bothered to check how it actually worx, wavelet compressor, cool.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'hashlife' was interesting because there are not so many 'martian' breakthroughs -- multiple-orders-of-magnitude speedups -- in algo world.
asciilifeform: and it was one.
Framedragger: aha yeah vaguely recall. "can actually skip states!!" thing
asciilifeform: ( prototyped, incidentally, on a bolix lispm )
asciilifeform: Framedragger: time-space compressor.
trinque: Framedragger: did I link this abomination or what?
Framedragger: i believe so :) http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-24#892946☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-10-24 15:06 undata: http://www.tushar-mehta.com/publish_train/xl_vba_cases/0906%20conways%20game%20of%20life.shtml
trinque: lol!
phf: oddly enough djvu is hated in angloworld (something something patents), but most of the archives of soviet written material is in djvu
mircea_popescu: gutenberg et all offer it.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: checked, yeah pretty amazing, damn; obviously lots of memory overhead depending on noise/entropy, but point is that it was actually something new, as you say, not just any optimisation
asciilifeform: sane folx piss kerosene on patents and then light it
asciilifeform: ( and fwiw, iirc the wavelet patents expired long ago )
asciilifeform: Framedragger: aha, one of the most jaw-dropping optimizations in history of the field, afaik.
asciilifeform: makes the difference b/w, e.g., sieve of eratosthenes factoring, and modern factoring algos, look small.
mircea_popescu: would be interesting to see what happens if $noob starts feeding old lines from someone in wot.
asciilifeform: possibly the only example of something that comes close, that i know of , is bernstein's gcd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this wasn't a 'shannonizer', but a thing that takes small state machine automaton and computes expansion of N steps 'impossibly' quickly
mircea_popescu: no i know what hashlife is. was re above trinque surprise.
asciilifeform has tried, on and off over the years, to generalize it to something more interesting, but so far not succeeded
asciilifeform: lolk
mircea_popescu: if you recal, was principal in gol start-up, we looked at ways to cheat.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: i dun recall, didja ever end up using it
phf: i don't share the anti-postscript sentiment. i think it's a maxwell's equation of graphics programming. introduces idea of graphics state stack, with operations that happen inside state or in transition between state (e.g. "displace everything that i said so far by n pixels right") . pretty much all the graphics code (including for example opengl) is a variation on what postscript does. and most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make any sen
phf: se in a physical printing world. i don't know any prior art to postscript, but i don't think publishing is it. most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make sense in a physical publishing
asciilifeform: phf: henderson's method, was, ultimately, 'the maxwell's equations of graphics'
asciilifeform: postscript is merely one half-baked incarnation.
mircea_popescu: phf let me formalize the statement here.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm not familiar
mircea_popescu: 1. publishing, after having operated on hot (molten metal) process for almost a century, with gradual improvements, moved to a purely photographic alternative starting in 1960s and complete by 1975.
mircea_popescu: 2. the alternative was run on digital machines, which ran software.
mircea_popescu: 3. a fellow by the name warnock, while working on a forgotten company cca 1975, came up with ps, in the sense a fellow called nakamoto came up with bitcoin. he was at the time working on the problem of drawing maps.
mircea_popescu: 4. the fellow named warnock was hired by xerox parc, which was also trying to get a publishing software package. he used HIS ps, to rewrite theirs.
mircea_popescu: 5. the selfsame fellow named warnock, with some others, started out in early 80s, made a company named "adobe", wrote the third copy of the ~same ps item.
mircea_popescu: 6. the item at 5 is what most people deem ps, but this is somewhat like thinking facebook invented php because it stole the sources and renamed them.
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/Nbc3i << possible qntra
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: 7. continuity of design and in principle exists throughout 2-5 ; implementations vary.
phf: oh the functional geometry henderson
asciilifeform: phf: aha
phf: i think that might be a haskelism. a functional formalism 20 years after the original concept
mircea_popescu: and yes, it can be said it all stands in the same relation to henderson & functional geometry as all the "gurus" and "experts" of the us school of management stand with skinner.
asciilifeform: phf: 1982 !
phf: well, correct. and postscript is early 70s
mircea_popescu: mid 70s
asciilifeform: as was the work henderson's paper stood on. imho this is a case of 'bell's telephone'
asciilifeform: the tech was ~obvious.
mircea_popescu: maybe. problem is everything's obvious.
asciilifeform: not, evidently, everything.
phf: which goes back to mircea_popescu's point of "nakamoto discovering bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: you mean not, evidently, everywhere.
asciilifeform: most folx who encounter, say, hashlife, even today go 'wtf, martian'
mircea_popescu: the 2-3 transition may be argued as "oh, like i wouldn't have figured that twirl on my own anyway". nevertheless, the 2-5 continuity doth revolve around warnock fellow.
mircea_popescu: now, in fairness, knuth had nfi of this, was deeply displeased by the poor quality of the image generated at the edge of this design graph, mostly due to cost saving and poor machinery, not substantially due to the item itself.
mircea_popescu: but whatever.
asciilifeform: knuth however was aware that raster photosetter ( a la modern process -- essentially laser printer ) had become a thing, vs old-fashioned ( essentially optoelectronic version of drum printer, with template wheels )
phf: my point though is that i don't know an alternative to platonic postscript (which can be closely executed in adobe postscript, but also ghostscript, etc.) when it comes to doing graphics. in this case adobe postscript is a kind of c bitcoin
mircea_popescu: depends of your idea of graphics. math-text graphics or juicy-tits graphics ?
asciilifeform: vectorized graphics.
mircea_popescu: tiff :D
asciilifeform: lol
phf: both, not necessarily vectorized!
asciilifeform: briefly upstack : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658014 << i tracked down the heathen pit in question, for entomological purposes. the only possibly lulzy bit is that it turns out to be thestringpuller 's new home.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:21 moli_: it's a stupid slack to house people like bamb0u
phf: there are hacks in postscript that let you dump a raw pixel buffer (as is the case in most graphics libraries, there's "graphics language" and "dump these special bits in internal format")
asciilifeform: 'thestringpuller May 18, 2017 11:32 @davef Dunno. Some speculated MP was broke and couldn’t warrant the losses to keep BitBet going' << didjaknow !!
asciilifeform: apparently there are junkyards for people.
trinque: whole countries of them actually.
phf: but if you're actually trying to render tits with full knowledge of medium, you have to layout your pixels manually, with the full "what is dpi, what is point, etc." awareness
trinque: mircea_popescu: looking into wtf happened with this JonDough guy's reg
phf afk
mircea_popescu: coo
asciilifeform: from earlier, 'They reached out to “jrklein,” out of thousands of LBC users, and arranged a meet. All said and done, the IRS agents met with Klein five times. The IRS agents clarified—with or to Klein—that they wanted to exchange their cash for his Bitcoin. Although other possible transactions existed on LBC, cash for Bitcoin was not uncommon. He made charged a 10 percent commission rate, and although the internet often scoff
asciilifeform: s at such a commission, IRS agents arrested him without mention of the money.'
asciilifeform: 'Klein faces five years in federal prison for operating an illegal money exchange—a money exchange that traded USD for property, according to the IRS’s BTC tax document.'
mircea_popescu: wait, like selling a car ?
asciilifeform: car, brick, whichever.
asciilifeform: excluding the great inca from your transaction is the mega-crime.
mircea_popescu: such a best korea you folks got going there.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
asciilifeform: incidentally, last i heard - actual 'best korea' has considerably less incatronic, in practice, commercial life than usaschwitz
asciilifeform: folx freely go into/out of cn bazars etc
mircea_popescu: dude look at that, some speculated ? who the fuck speculated, thestringpuller ?
mircea_popescu: and where the fuck were they with the "speculating" back when buffett had no option but to pretend like i dun exist.
asciilifeform: https://bitcoincore.slackarchive.io/welcome/page-99 << subj ( nfi if this renders in human browser )
asciilifeform: ^ specially designated prb heathen pit, apparently.
asciilifeform: a kind of aol.
mircea_popescu: can the useless twerp even voice himself here ?
asciilifeform: iirc he ended up in pederasty
asciilifeform: by the latrine.
mircea_popescu: apparently.
asciilifeform: through sheer force of idleness
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he did ?
asciilifeform: !!gettrust thestringpuller
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 11 by 6 connections.
asciilifeform: hm
asciilifeform: then no??
mircea_popescu: i dunno, 've not been following, but anyway. i can't recall him doing something over the years.
asciilifeform: at one time he grudgingly tested some trb
asciilifeform: but afaik that was it
trinque: !!reputation thestringpuller
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WhIRo/?raw=true
trinque: lol, was that 10 from danielpbarron supposed to be positive?
trinque: oh sorry, "danieldaniel"
trinque: nvm.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: 3583332741. that's ... a long time ago.
asciilifeform: 'not ivan, but pyotr, and not won, but lost, and not the lottery, but at cards'
mircea_popescu: danieldaniel was this 16yo iirc, hung around -otc
mircea_popescu: trinque Sat Oct 7 06:37:43 CST 2084 << say, how do i get unixtime from deedbot time ?
asciilifeform: 'thestringpuller May 18, 2017 11:27 basically from a purely logical standpoint MP’s last bastion in generating bitcoin revenue is 1) through activities he can’t talk about on the clear net (he used to be a pimp and made money that way in the RO days), 2) through Eulora which is basically just A Tale in the Desert with Bitcoin' << didjaknow
mircea_popescu: i can't talk about being a pimp on the clear net ? holy shit i wrote the fucking textbook on it ?
asciilifeform: nfi!
mircea_popescu: aaanyways.
asciilifeform is falling over from sheer lul
asciilifeform: apparently rats in the sewer have conversations and things
mircea_popescu: but, talking of eulora, http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-05-17.log.html#t03:39:24
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-05-17 03:39:24: <mircea_popescu> eulora economy went up ~900% from 1st sept 2015 to 1st april 2017. 20 months.
asciilifeform: about how human affairs work, and ought to work
mircea_popescu: by now it's ~bitbet sized, in terms of "bitcoin mp holds for other people".
trinque: !!ratings thestringpuller
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a5KcK/?raw=true
trinque: oh wait.
mircea_popescu: somehow "some are speculating" failed to speculate about how you know, nsa now sells pcb+ic assemblies.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do the speculating somebodies pick their speculatin' substance ?
trinque: http://wot.deedbot.org/6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169.html << human timestamps here
mircea_popescu: but how are the others derived ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: standard unhappentronic algo -- 'if i strategically omit to mention it, it will unexist'
asciilifeform: or the slightly more advanced kakobreklan version, 'oh that wasn't mircea_popescu's thing, it was asciilifeform , mircea_popescu only drinks his blood'
mircea_popescu: fine, but i find it rather lulzy that apparently i have to worry about "Bitcoin revenue", as if i can't trade fiatola for bitcoin like anyone else ; and that somehow i should be worried while sitting on technology the usg couldn't replicate in spite of trying for a coupla years.
trinque: mircea_popescu: those are lispy "univeral time", integer seconds since 1900 jan 1 00:00:00
asciilifeform: various idiocies, i can't be arsed to catalogue'em all
mircea_popescu: trinque aaah i c.
mircea_popescu: sell phuctor to north korea, lulz & profit.
asciilifeform: $ date -d @3583332741
asciilifeform: Tue Jul 20 14:12:21 EDT 2083
asciilifeform: ^ lol
mircea_popescu: he's using the lisp not the unix thing
asciilifeform: aaaah
trinque: 1900 is the real 1970, way lispier
mircea_popescu: some have speculated i forgot about that.
asciilifeform: iirc crapple's original epoch was also 1900
asciilifeform: for some reason
Framedragger: trinque: while at it i'll just mention that mine still doesn't have teh old ratings, not that i need them any time soon, just adding to the list. god knows my own list is long :(
asciilifeform: ( pre-osx )
trinque: Framedragger: I dunno what you mean by teh old ratings
Framedragger: sec
Framedragger: curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7QOaG/?raw=true | grep Framedragger
trinque: ah no, I have it
Framedragger: vs curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RSfiU/?raw=true | grep Framedragger (this is from !!reputation and also web)
trinque: one sec.
Framedragger: no bother
Framedragger: (^ ah nick in lowercase, so grep needs to be, too)
mircea_popescu: wtf is bitcoin income even FOR, one wonders. not like bitcoin inflates. if you accumulate you just increase your share in total wealth.
mircea_popescu: fucking jobsworths and their demented perspective.
trinque: !!reputation Framedragger
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1LjKS/?raw=true
Framedragger: trinque: niice, lgtm, many thanks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey , these are the folx hell-bent on retrofitting inflation into bitcoin somehow. are firmly convinced that they will eventually do it ( alternative is to 'lie down and rot' , from their pov , world with perma-working bitcoin in it is not one they wish to even conceive of living in )
Framedragger: (i assume web caches older version for now, but web is only preview-mode of the actual thing anyway)
trinque: yeah web shall update shortly
Framedragger: ty!
mircea_popescu: some have speculated they might not have a choice.
asciilifeform: hey, mouse+glass jar
asciilifeform: they ain't about to simply give up.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a fine summary of modernity is "the time when middle class status went from owning $x in property to owning $x in property AND generating $y in income".
mircea_popescu: some property comes with some y baked in, like apparently washington dc real estate
mircea_popescu: most of it, does not. like say bar of iron, or bushel of wheat.
asciilifeform: koku of rice
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: the happenstance that the former are ~all economically useless, and the latter ~all economically useful AND collectively the whole gamut of economy interests no one
mircea_popescu: which is why the no one in question finds itself stuck trying to MAGA.
asciilifeform: in other noose, massive ddos of phuctor
mircea_popescu: o noes.
asciilifeform: ( continuous fetches of random key pages , from random and unique ip, with random refer hdr )
mircea_popescu: dump the log ?
asciilifeform: 1s
Framedragger: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/derp.txt << snippet
asciilifeform: this thing comes & goes, it is clearly in experimental stage.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658152 < Maxwell's equations are wrong / incomplete (http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_15.html)! Unit circle bfs.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 16:20 phf: i don't share the anti-postscript sentiment. i think it's a maxwell's equation of graphics programming. introduces idea of graphics state stack, with operations that happen inside state or in transition between state (e.g. "displace everything that i said so far by n pixels right") . pretty much all the graphics code (including for example opengl) is a variation on what postscript does. and most of the things postscript does simply doesn't make any sen
gabriel_laddel_p: *ffs
gabriel_laddel_p: Also I take it nobody watched the video of what the hasllife author is up to these days I posted to Ben's blog?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: if you intended to link to unified theory... you made mistake, you linked to schoolbook that everyone has
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: there is no standard presentation of the unified theory. All we have is an experiment showing the A-> field is required to fully describe EM.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: not even speaking of actual breakthroughs -- even discerning crackpots do not put their work in format of 'video' , but written word
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: Bill Gosper is what then.
asciilifeform: aging tesla, is what.
asciilifeform: buncha these folx -- alan kay, ted nelson, et al
asciilifeform: i bet if webcam existed when tesla was old an' feeding pigeons -- he would've rambled into a webcam.
asciilifeform: i have not watched the film, gabriel_laddel_p . but its existence ~in that form~ does not bode well for the content. but if gabriel_laddel_p wants to write about what he saw -- i'll read..
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: Absurdity. Carver Mead's G4V presentation comes across far better in his video than in his paper, and the video includes slides that don't exist elsewhere.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: if you believe this, plz consider , again, writing it down.
asciilifeform: socrates, we're told, also 'worked best in video', or how did it go ; plato -- wrote down.
asciilifeform: i've yet to meet a mega-breakthrough that only exists upon this earth as slides in 2-3 frames of some obscure lecture film. but who knows, always a first time.
asciilifeform: write. it. down.
asciilifeform: and post.
asciilifeform: ( why not blog yet, gabriel_laddel_p ? )
trinque: because not place to shit privately yet.
asciilifeform: i knew actual, certified bums with blog.
asciilifeform: so not obstacle.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: my laptop's internal charger broke, and I'm sitting here waiting on a charging deck to show up.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally i have not forgotten about your shortage of comps, i did get ye olde x61 out of storage, and dusted off, will be posting it this weekend when going to town.
asciilifeform: maybe this will help.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: It will. I've already sold it.
trinque: no, fate will do something completely unexpected to it.
asciilifeform: lol
gabriel_laddel_p: Incidentally, hacked the "black diamond" CLIM-web hack a few nights ago. IE, tying graphics to IRC messages via BEIRC.
gabriel_laddel_p: Which, whatever, ~10loc.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: what does this look like on receiving end ?
asciilifeform: say you were to paste in a jpeg, and on my end i dun have your renderer.
gabriel_laddel_p: But it presents a way to get off of "the web", and then swap the underlying networking implementation for gossipd, while retaining a usable UI throughout.
asciilifeform: do i get 100kB of base64 liquishit a la http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658000 ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 15:16 mircea_popescu: V1fMpXqyah5i67onzcUeMhJwL65VvmufwrFQlpTwMuetHbFddCL5tXKiW05YWdItLGO+V9ebr776decAwm+pqw6rIwhJIPLSz/Ygd0r/Em5TSbn/opcJ6fenjs9wP8eFholFs2u0/PavqarPwydSLecMnyNhP/BxdCNXVlW84KvCiLWf+W1LKfZ92+ylae2NMHobDt+wZjLMPPePhizzJ6FAkPjzGh8fDs6rW64vrGVVEYkq73URNq6QkD+nTgL5ar87eJ+bL3J850ff9X9PoJa0xWO+JIkuZxkh9H+8fZnhHv+ilDs3uha3mq8bdLj48zves3g2X20U
asciilifeform: see the problem ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they seem repeated. possibly browsers retrying ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/n4SRZ/?raw=true << new one
asciilifeform: fuck no, these ain't browsers
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: gotta have a web browser to browse the web, dontcha?
asciilifeform: 1000s of different keys, in span of minutes
asciilifeform: and from 1,001 ips, and asking for keys sequentially
asciilifeform: ( enumerated from old /phuctored dump )
mircea_popescu: !$ssh 104.192.170.198
scriba: ssh banner of 104.192.170.198 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.2
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: !$ssh 177.204.161.76
mircea_popescu: !$ssh 96.64.149.101
mircea_popescu: !$ssh 181.117.4.58
mircea_popescu: !$ssh 86.178.228.238
Framedragger: you may overestimating the number of non-NAT'ed boxes mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: 1 in 5 huh
mircea_popescu: Framedragger nah just curious
mircea_popescu: not sure what nat'd do here.
asciilifeform: my current hypothesis, re why sporadic, is that somebody made it a payload for a 'cheap' botnet, and nodes fire sporadically
asciilifeform: luser closes his lappy -- his, stops
Framedragger: i just mean that a box behind NAT won't show up in that !$ssh query
asciilifeform: bargain-bin ddos, like like ye olde b-a udpbot
Framedragger: asciilifeform: you may be right, seeing as that "betaBot" is a piece of some older malware, seemingly
mircea_popescu: Framedragger something would have an ip. that which has the ip -- has the ip/
Framedragger: mentioned e.g. here https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/02/27/attackers-using-cracked-builder-to-duplicate-and-spread-betabot/ ; but could be unrelated
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i have nfi why a bot would accurately self-identify. but whatevers.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah i used NAT in much too general a sense of the word. i meant "rando PCs behind routers etc."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno that 100 lines in 5 minute can count as a dos
asciilifeform: it does in specifically this case.
asciilifeform: perpetrator reads the logs.
asciilifeform: knew which leg is sprained, and hits specifically that leg.
asciilifeform: this ain't a wordpress.
mircea_popescu: or people read some article somewhere, tried to check out phuctor.
asciilifeform: mno.
asciilifeform: holy FUCK read the paste plox.
asciilifeform: it doesn't even pretend to 'look like people'
mircea_popescu: note that the items in your paste... are indexed as such.
mircea_popescu: ie, mentioned in the logs, google knows them.
asciilifeform: which browser is it that makes 1,001 requests, with random refer header , when loading a page ?
mircea_popescu: you did not show 1001 requests.
mircea_popescu: i dun see the random referer in the snippet.
mircea_popescu: anyway,
mircea_popescu: !~google "/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Welcome | Phuctor - No Such lAbs: <http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7>
mircea_popescu: seems they actually get clicked from archive.is
mircea_popescu: ie, someone saw an archived page, clicked link.
asciilifeform: well, they got PARSED out of an archive.is'd page.
mircea_popescu: that page being... a log archive.
asciilifeform: loading the page, in ordinary browsers, does not result in req-to-every-link
asciilifeform: try it
mircea_popescu: http://archive.li/7t3I2 specifically
mircea_popescu: yes, loading the page. but maybe someone clicked the links, is the idea.
asciilifeform: clicked all of them, and in same order, and exactly same # of msec apart ?
Framedragger: same number of ms? mk that's curious
mircea_popescu: i don't see msec there. i see seconds
mircea_popescu: and yes, i sometimes will click on a bunch of links. i imagine others too.
mircea_popescu: there are also shitty mobile browser that "prefetch", but whatever.
asciilifeform: ^ first idea that'd actually match the observation
asciilifeform: other than 'script'
asciilifeform: it dun look like 'people clicking', nor even attempts to.
mircea_popescu: your observation suffers in all its articulations : you see seconds and imagine microseconds, you see a hundred and imagine 1001, you see regular, and reasonable referrer and imagine random, it's just not good!
asciilifeform: i've been seeing this nonsense for months.
mircea_popescu: well certainly phuctor hasn't been under massive ddos for months!
asciilifeform: and no, i don't have a ready collection of it, because i have ONE motherfucking pair of hands
asciilifeform: not 1,001
mircea_popescu: anyway, the web / backend decoupling will hafta occur, it's too fragile as it is
asciilifeform: it'll have to be rewritten, aha, this isn't really workable.
asciilifeform: the 10,000,000 html turdlets approach doesn't work tho.
asciilifeform: ( for approx same reason that it doesn't work for bitcoin )
mircea_popescu: myeah
trinque: ah so g_l refueled on smart-guy virtue signaling, off now to dry clothes on line next to peter thiel's agar pool?
mircea_popescu rereads log, missed this line apparently because doing log checking in parallel with bothering ex romanian ex con ex prime minister.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: curious if he publishes mah comment.
mircea_popescu: what is g5v ?
mircea_popescu: "The G4V transforms the standard DJ MIDI device into a dynamic and formidable software performance controller. Within its fully metal enclosure are 2 ..."
mircea_popescu: srsly ?
asciilifeform: wai where
mircea_popescu: google.
asciilifeform: yes but why
mircea_popescu: nfi.
mircea_popescu: i'm just trying to follow the conversation, clap along.
asciilifeform: possibly was looking for g_l's crackpottery ? that was a 4, not a 5, and it can be found, e.g, here, https://arxiv.org/abs/1503.04866
mircea_popescu: "Gravitational coupling of the propagation four-vectors of matter wave functions is formulated in flat space-time."
mircea_popescu: aand it lost me.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, no magic videos )
mircea_popescu: oh oh oh, the "collective action electrons" guy.
asciilifeform: also vlsi
mircea_popescu: came up with a way to explain away laser interferometry not showing these "grav waves" by declaring photons kulaks / enemy of the solid state or such.
asciilifeform: ftr i tried to give him the uncle al treatment, and actually digest his theory
asciilifeform: it dun have enough meat on its bones, at least as presented in the b00k,
asciilifeform: to be properly digested.
mircea_popescu: i did not, because i did not like the reactive nature of it ^ above.
asciilifeform: so asciilifeform classified him as ' a tesla ' and filed away.
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you recall, largest grant by nsf, caltech and mit (of course) spent a decade starting with post-collapse (sept 2001) trying to see how gravity influences laser beams through measuring interference. never saw anything.
asciilifeform: and it is very easy to dismiss a physics heretic for 'talking to journalists, a la pons&fleischman', e.g. http://archive.is/FeaSm
mircea_popescu: so obviously the trauma produced some reactions. but to outright ban photons is a little much.
mircea_popescu: i always suspected the ligo nonsense was why alf had such a low opinion of eg cern cyclotron.
asciilifeform: dunno if it is accurate to describe the grantolade dispense as 'spent to .. see how gravity '
asciilifeform: it spent so that buncha lamers can have wifehousechildren.
mircea_popescu: well they built some massive laser fuckfloors.
asciilifeform: it's an f35.
asciilifeform: all of it.
mircea_popescu: well no, some are the sukhoi, some are the f
asciilifeform: where's the sukhoi ?
mircea_popescu: under switzerland :D
asciilifeform: iirc we had this thread..
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: i just didn't realise you meanwhile reverted :D
asciilifeform: lel
asciilifeform: and the reason why asciilifeform has low opinion of ligo et al is that physics has been growing like winblowz api, like prb, like tumour, and not like growing child ( or 1600-1950 physics, for that matter )
asciilifeform: can say 'it's mature field', whatnot, but then job of practitioner is to SHRINK the textbook
asciilifeform: by finding more parsimonious model.
asciilifeform: not to expand the book to fill available shelf space.
asciilifeform: and grantolade space.
asciilifeform: and even if he believes that it ~cannot~ be further shrunk, it remains his job to die trying
asciilifeform: because otherwise he gotta find another like of work.
asciilifeform: the ligo treatment -- even if taken at face value, rather than grantolade-eating cynical fraud -- is rather like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657309 philosophy.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:43 phf: i guess that's aligned with the "we moved from SICP to python, because programming is no longer about writing code, but discovering libraries" that's periodically discussed in logs
asciilifeform: the indian-coder, 'stack overflow' treatment of knowledge .
mircea_popescu: the fact is that the textbook is incomplete. fails to explain gravity credibly.
asciilifeform: sure.
mircea_popescu: also incomplete re magnetism, etc.
asciilifeform: but cataloguing, naming, imaginary ( and when unified, they will look like a quite laughable jorge borges zoo roster ) particules, is not a solution to any of it
mircea_popescu: in this sense and very generally, large scale investigations of the nature of "let's see what happens to laser interference" are not substantially different from historical items such as foucault's pendulum, or the torgue balance of 1700
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: minus any fundamental result !
asciilifeform: is the difference .
mircea_popescu: the difference between ligo and cern is that the later actually does something ; the former...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't know the result until AFTER. you gotta start building it BEFORE.
asciilifeform: 'does something' is not difficult standard. asciilifeform's 40w laser likewise 'does something'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, and in that something it's justified.
mircea_popescu: you don't derided its existence, do you.
asciilifeform: formerly asciilifeform barfed less from $ 4B paperweight laser than 4b welfare cheques or iraqs . but -- on no small part from educative efforts of mircea_popescu -- now barfs equally
asciilifeform: the people are ~exactly same, on the receiving end of those cheques.
asciilifeform: and the work has exactly same methodology, and same output.
mircea_popescu: lel
mircea_popescu: the latter part is hard to arghue with.
asciilifeform: whereas ACTUALLY promising, and wholly noncrackpotterious direction of particle physics -- induced beta decay -- is funded to the princely sum of..
asciilifeform: zero
asciilifeform: and can be pursued for perhaps a few 100k $ worth of gear
asciilifeform: ( less, if access to surplus goldentoilets )
asciilifeform: the mechanics were described, quite exactly, in 1950s . and it follows, theoretically, that you could power a city of, e.g., strontium-90 scraped off chernobyl.
asciilifeform: *off
asciilifeform: and exhaust pipe emits ~stable~ matter.
mircea_popescu: maybe one day, alfie.
asciilifeform: well it won't be at cern.
asciilifeform: or ligo, or uni. of maryland.
asciilifeform: because -- fundamentally - 'bad business'
asciilifeform: not 'job-creating'
asciilifeform: 0 dissertations, in it.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: because it was ~completely described in su in 1950s.
mircea_popescu: eh, didn't stop them before.
asciilifeform: more dangerously, it doesn't call for massive $bil instrumentation .
asciilifeform: nor create 'moar studies needed' ad-infinitum.
asciilifeform: the perfect academitron is the hot-fusion reactor -- eternal 'but if only we make it 10% bigger!' chumpatron
asciilifeform: and thousands of asian phd students get dissertation from proposing a new thermal/field/whatever sensor for it, etc
mircea_popescu: this whole theory is a little shaky.
asciilifeform: there is no money, in modern usg reich, in SOLVING a problem
asciilifeform: your solution will simply get confiscated and assigned to 'respectable people'
asciilifeform: bitcoin drives the lizards up a wall because it was the first immovable object that resisted the 'irresistible force'
mircea_popescu: i dunno about all that.
asciilifeform: lol, postscript, pdf.
asciilifeform: the process is not mega-mystery.
asciilifeform: ( of 'reassigned to respectable' that is )
asciilifeform: probably most famous case -- transistor
mircea_popescu: why not aspirin, while at it.
asciilifeform: iirc that was part of a larger rape, of germany as a whole
mircea_popescu: yes but also best model of this "assigned to respectable people" thing.
asciilifeform: pretty good model, if not necessarily 'best'
asciilifeform: and we very recently iirc had a marconi thread
mircea_popescu: so take something random, say the touchscreen. who invented, who got assigned ?
asciilifeform does not recall
mircea_popescu: ok. what else, the microwave ? velcro ? what shall we take ? gsm comms ?
mircea_popescu: fuel injectors, what.
asciilifeform: marconi was interesting case -- i read his patents, and in a few the circuit could not work as drawn, and in fact could not have been drawn by a d00d who understood half of what he was allegedly doing ( vs cribbing )
asciilifeform: was exactly indian-cut-and-paste artist.
asciilifeform: ...but with crown backing.
mircea_popescu: marconi ? i thought he was poor.
asciilifeform: lukejr poor.
asciilifeform: or idk who is best comparison today.
asciilifeform: was backed 'because italian, dammit'
mircea_popescu: but he worked on telegraph prior neh ?
asciilifeform: was one of many 'brute force' experimenters in 1890s.
mircea_popescu: made rthat lulzy square antenna etc.
asciilifeform: d00d did in fact carry out experiments. but proved also brilliant at taking credit for the work of others.
mircea_popescu: not sure any crown was involved, be that as it may.
asciilifeform: d00d was made senator ! and then again lifted up by mussolini.
mircea_popescu: so /
asciilifeform: iirc the butthurt was deep ( and described in the infamous u.s. supreme court trial on subj. ) marconi got the famous '7777' patent , and pr machine cemented his reputation as 'first practical radio!' (though it was largely based on earlier work, by, e.g., lodge, tesla, others)
asciilifeform: then marconi joined in the newly-developed 'edison' tradition of patent trollage, by laying claim to EVERY subsequent improvement to radio, by others who came later..
asciilifeform: brothers wright, incidentally, did ~same thing in ~their~ field, and more or less paralyzed it entirely for years
asciilifeform: edison's megabux had the same 'contagious disease' influence as the success of gates/microshit in 1980s did on software industry
asciilifeform: every 'idea man' wanted to 'become edison', 'rich off patents'
asciilifeform: (edison, bell, westinghouse, coupla others)
mircea_popescu: not entirely clear to me what you're saying here. so the idea is, that because random upstart / usurper of minor crown enobled anyone who could read/write and hadn't rean off a century ago, it therefore follows that a man who could power a whole city out of hot reactor waste today does not do so because mit graduates can't power a lightbulb with the battery in hand. something like that ?
asciilifeform: was it mircea_popescu who wrote 'best thing you can do for physics is to find a respectable elderly physicist on the road, and shoot a hole in his head' ?
mircea_popescu: i dun think so. link ?
asciilifeform: can't seem to find link. so maybe it wasn't .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho it is not a simple as 'there's a man who could, but he won't , because pissants tangled in his shoelaces.'
asciilifeform: idea was that this hypothetical man is the point of a spear, a spear that was broken.
mircea_popescu: if the 100k you're talking about is factual, ie, what a moderately competent engineer makes a year, it seems altogether strange they're not doing it.
mircea_popescu: there's many tons of waste in the us they don't klnow what to do with. and as recent qntra points out, it's starting to leak.
mircea_popescu: waste is more enduring than rock.
asciilifeform: well it's $100k + pyongyang ( work unmolested by usg )
mircea_popescu is having the antipasta of all time. grana padano, anchovies, winter salami, olives... ahhh.
asciilifeform: there's a million folx with 100k. but afaik 0 who a) give a shit b) work unmolested ( and this includes molestation that makes your table legs cost 100k each, as in entirety of 'civilized' world's 'legitimiate' laboratories )
asciilifeform: try to build just about ANYTHING in 'legit org', and 'jobsworths' show up immediately, like crows to a corpse, and before long :
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
asciilifeform: so i'll readily admit that i am working in a poorly defined unit. 100k of tmsr partizan money -- might buy subj. but how many 100k usg funbux buy a phuctor, or FG ?
asciilifeform: i have nfi how to convert between the 2.
asciilifeform: or whether it is meaningful to try.
asciilifeform: apparently entire ru 'infosec' budget bought, waht, a few 100 elbrus. if that.
asciilifeform: ( having not laid hands on ONE, i cannot say if any ! )
asciilifeform: seealso http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1531862 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-30 14:55 asciilifeform: 'motivation from fear is a firecracker, from interest - a nuke' as the americans used to say
mircea_popescu: i dunno, seems even at mit, physics lab should be able to produce the micrograms of I or w/e is contemplarted here.
mircea_popescu: certainly ro could, and does.
asciilifeform: ftr i would love to hear, from actual honest practitioner, why induced-beta is not pursued. ONE good reason.
asciilifeform: but unfortunately afaik they're all dead.
mircea_popescu: simple recipe for man interested -- go into grad school at relevant place, make measurements.
mircea_popescu: i know of a coupla who tried. the problem was the measurements not coming out, rather than conspiraci.
asciilifeform: the 1 problem i can immediately spot is 'if you can't make it with STOCK equipment, you need $maxint'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did these folx who tried, leave some written record ?
asciilifeform: post it for the l0gz ?
mircea_popescu: informal party talk. i've never followed it in much detail.
asciilifeform: 1 moar observation : you need a quite strong magnetic field. which became affordable in 1990s strictly.
asciilifeform: ( in that you can get it out of 'shelf' industrial equip, vs 'golden toilet' )
mircea_popescu: but the thing remains, so you do induced beta decay. this has some matter costs, in the radioactive material, and some energy cost, in the confinement, excitatron, etc. in exchange for these, you get beta particles. now, what do you do with them ? warm some water, turn turbine ? -ev. put against photovoltaics ? -ev. illuminate raw metal joints ? -ev. what ?
mircea_popescu: afaik that's the missing piece.
asciilifeform: not missing. betavoltaic cell.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is all early 2000s.
asciilifeform: it's an electron, what.
mircea_popescu: tunnel and field effects, it just dun come out.
mircea_popescu: beta radiation is not just an electron about in the sense a tsunami is not just water.
asciilifeform: how to get current out of beta is ~solved problem, used industrially (small radiogenerators in implants)
asciilifeform: but yes, was engineering problem, solved to about same satisfaction as solar cell (iirc peak conversion efficiency was similar)
mircea_popescu: yes but it's not -ev for this application.
asciilifeform: if you can set up the induction conditions for less than the cost - then + sign.
asciilifeform: it's a restatement of whole problem, yes.
mircea_popescu: well, apparently nobody could so far.
asciilifeform: i've found ~no record of anybody even trying, since 1980s.
asciilifeform: but possibly more problem on my end than other.
asciilifeform: anyone who knows any -- plox to post.
mircea_popescu: well, do you what, go to parties where solid state grads show up ? or how would you ?
asciilifeform: all i got is the open lit.
mircea_popescu: anyway, esp because of the incredible expense that is magnetic bottle, it's not even CLOSE, ev wise.
asciilifeform: you might not need bottle.
mircea_popescu: though most don't even want to use that as a confinement method
asciilifeform: ( why would you ? no fusion, no heat )
mircea_popescu: (beta sources are terrible, i will remind the public, because metal emits gamma on contact.)
asciilifeform: xray, but sure
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: 'soft', bremsstrahlung, but aha
asciilifeform: like old crt.
mircea_popescu: still. yeah.
trinque: !!key jondough
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7DAF46653B2A66D9D90AD79B4E0B0276E6275848.asc
asciilifeform: i suspect that the finesse, if it ever turns up, would be to somehow 'chain react' the induced beta emission.
trinque: ^ where deedbot asked for one fp, our excitable friend put two
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: ( possibly by growing the material in a crystal, say, such that the emitted particles trigger yet others etc a la ye olde neutron-powered fission reaction )
asciilifeform: incidentally, let's try gedankenexperiment ,
asciilifeform: 1 mEv ~= 1.6e-13 j.
mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as the conspiracies go : politically speaking, if the ev were even close, even vaguely the "art" grads in eg germany would be pushing for lifting the cost on hot reactors matter disposal so as to balance it outright.
mircea_popescu: but... it's not.
asciilifeform: k-40, most abundant (in nature, 1 of the very few) B emitters, decays with 1.33mEv emission, so ~2.13e-13 j..
asciilifeform: but suppose you could shorten its half-life.
asciilifeform: ( normally -- 1.23e9 yr )
asciilifeform: 1.25 rather
mircea_popescu: do the math :
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * 1.25*10**9
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2.13 * 10**-13 * 1.25*10**9 = 2.6625E-4
mircea_popescu: you get a quarter milijoul per mol. as an absolute maximum.
mircea_popescu: dja know what the mol of gasoline produces through oxidation ?
asciilifeform: this dun seem right
mircea_popescu: your numbers.
asciilifeform: yes, but abused.
mircea_popescu: abused how ?!
mircea_popescu: if the whole mol halflived NOW that'd be the total energetic output.
asciilifeform: well for starters, 1.25e9 is the HALF life
mircea_popescu: (well, twice, really. irl i should have divided by half)
asciilifeform: not 'all-life'
mircea_popescu: yes...
mircea_popescu: this dun help your case.
mircea_popescu: add a 2% conversion efficiency on top, and it suddenly looks terribru. diesel engines work in the high 40%.
asciilifeform: i dun yet have a case, incidentally, picked a naturally-found isotope at ~random, to see what'd happen if someone were to 'burn' a kg of it this way
asciilifeform: it's the 'softest'.
mircea_popescu: yeah. jus' saying, ev is the problem with this theoretically promising idea.
asciilifeform: anyway i'll take mircea_popescu's pessimistic figure for K40.
mircea_popescu: just like with radio in marconi's time.
asciilifeform: ( even if it discards ~half )
asciilifeform: probably oughta mention that -- iirc -- induced decay can be moar ( or less ) energetic than the expected one
asciilifeform: but this is where my recollection ends.
asciilifeform: it's an unknown-unknown. that afaik nobody's diggin.
mircea_popescu: and also, surprisingly energetic. imagine what fun it'll be once you discover that a kilogram is not like the microgram in that it summons fucking chtulhu.
asciilifeform: aha, exactly that
asciilifeform: q in gedankenexperiment was 'what if kitchen nuke after all exists'
mircea_popescu: gee, i wonder why nobody wants to dedicate life to building incidental nuke.
mircea_popescu: it went so fucking well for curie and that idiot with the beryl sphere.
mircea_popescu: i think they named a crater on moon after them.
asciilifeform: matter of taste, but there are folx who'd maybe rather die on beryllium sphere than from vodka
asciilifeform: ( or even on harley )
mircea_popescu: yes. they don't tend to have 100k spare change in couch cushions.
asciilifeform: tru!!
asciilifeform: asciilifeform for instance has to die on a rusty bucket
asciilifeform: can't afford even half a beryllium sphere!111
asciilifeform: oh btw mircea_popescu , a mol of k40 :
mircea_popescu was wondering how long until you ask for avogadro's number.
asciilifeform: !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) = 1.2826859999999998E11
asciilifeform: bang
mircea_popescu: ya ya.
mircea_popescu: now calculate the magnetic field that turns a million years into a second.
asciilifeform: first, gotta finish above,
asciilifeform: !~calc 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) / ( 4.184*10**6 )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 2.13 * 10**-13 * ( 6.022 * 10**23 ) / ( 4.184*10**6 ) = 30656.931166347993
asciilifeform: kg TNT.
asciilifeform: as to mircea_popescu's 2nd q, i have nfi !
asciilifeform: not like i'm sitting on this item !1
asciilifeform: ( exercise for student : how many kg of KCl from corner shop, contains ^ qty of k40 )
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/fakes-news-on-trumprussia-hallucination-continues-as-trump-bombs-convoy-of-actual-russian-ally-syria/ << Qntra - Fakes News On Trump/Russia Hallucination Continues As Trump Bombs Convoy Of Actual Russian Ally Syria
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658191 << It's been a while since he's lit up my inbox. Went over the years from promising to sell cookies he wouldn't bake to writing a couple good qntra's under cazalla regime. Then sort just degraded to repeatedly asking questions over plaintext about gardening for plants I don't grow. "tomatoes" but I suspect he was using it as a code word for a plant incompatible with quality sobriety. His late con☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 16:34 asciilifeform: briefly upstack : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658014 << i tracked down the heathen pit in question, for entomological purposes. the only possibly lulzy bit is that it turns out to be thestringpuller 's new home.
BingoBoingo: verstations felt very trap like with "sting op" sort of vibe. Impossible to tell if through malice or powerlessness over certain dry plant matter.
jurov: wtf http://mpex.co/history_of_bitcoin_stock_exchanges.html
asciilifeform: lol! it's the cardano people !
asciilifeform: i bet this is the 'seekrit startup' that made kakobrekla rich
jurov: BingoBoingo: it expired. prolly too low fee :D
asciilifeform: megabux from anon swiss 'donor', and he churns out this nonsense
BingoBoingo: jurov: seems to have went through eventually or something. Resolved A+++!!!11!!!
asciilifeform: 'Feel free to call us any time, we have a staff dedicated to answering your questions. +1-803-555-0109'
jurov: oh that. actually, the other dude kicked me :)
asciilifeform: hey give'em a call
BingoBoingo: jurov: How is vacation/sabbatical going anyways?
jurov: fine fine, having fun on crete atm.
BingoBoingo: Awesome. I picked up some conCrete today.
jurov: dropped it yet?
BingoBoingo: Not yet, waiting for anchoring hardware to arrive. Attaching a tin shed to the ground.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: can't be kako, site is too positive about mpex :D
Framedragger: this just looks like spam/scamotron. with ads!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/careerist-us-attorney-prosecutes-private-money-for-property-exchange/ << Qntra - Careerist US Attorney Prosecutes Private Money For Property Exchange
shinohai: Take care to avoid minotaurs jurov and have fun! ^.^
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658673 << who's the cardano people ?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 20:26 asciilifeform: lol! it's the cardano people !
mircea_popescu: ah, look at that, highschool virgin club collecting discarded, used condoms, making themselves bower to impress the highschool sluts. sounds like MAGA.
mircea_popescu: before alf cuts more notches in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658505 stick : i literally did not bother paying for the domain, for no other reason than because i literally give this much of a shit about domains, and the whole rest of the ustardian crap built atop it.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:57 asciilifeform: your solution will simply get confiscated and assigned to 'respectable people'
mircea_popescu: put that in your "internet domains are worth money" pipe and smoke it.
shinohai simply makes mpex.co point wherever he damn well pleases with his specially-crafted hosts file.
mircea_popescu: word.
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gn7tX/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658690 >>>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-31#1610071☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 21:11 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658673 << who's the cardano people ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-01-31 02:25 asciilifeform: http://cardano.io
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-31#1610073 <<☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-31 02:26 asciilifeform: 'A decentralized network system fully-utilizing Blockchain in every aspect, aims at solving current difficulties faced by key cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum, preventing from frauds and money-laundering, ID management and being a mediator with taxing/administrative system in various countries.
mircea_popescu: lol k.
mircea_popescu: i had no idea bitcoin faced difficulties.
asciilifeform: and yes i recall that mircea_popescu threw out the domain. dun matter much, even if you buy 1,001 domains ( enriching usg each time, each year ) there is always 1,001st.
asciilifeform: 1,002nd, et
asciilifeform: c
mircea_popescu: next they're going to invent a sheath fully utilizing steel that aims at solving the difficulties faced by swords embedded in idiots guts everywhere.
asciilifeform: it's shannonized.
asciilifeform: and could've been funnier.
asciilifeform: but hey, lowest-bidder shannonizer
Framedragger: someone needs to do a SaaS
Framedragger: scam as a service
asciilifeform: betcha it's kako's co.
Framedragger: would include that 3d transform on cardano.io as a free perk
asciilifeform: d00d's been doing the reptilia thing
asciilifeform: ( photos of throne, whores hanging off arms, etc )
mircea_popescu: oh ?
asciilifeform: e.g. https://smpake.com/tmp/1494143304871.jpg
Framedragger: doesn't imply scamatron
asciilifeform: secrecy does.
BingoBoingo: In other Desperations: https://archive.is/F2SIO "If the chain splits, then when / if / every time the BIP148 chain gets longer*, it will replace the legacy chain. Transactions that had confirmed on the legacy chain will become unconfirmed (unless they are also confirmed on the BIP148 chain). Bitcoins mined by legacy miners will cease to exist, as they lose their blocks. (This cannot occur in the inverse direction: no matter how long the
BingoBoingo: legacy chain gets, BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain.)"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently went to oleg savchuk school, archive.is dun see it.
Framedragger: mno, secrecy implies kindergarten perhaps, tho. anyway, impossible to argue due to the former
asciilifeform: secrecy + suddenwealth == sold-motherland to ~every intel service on planet
asciilifeform: ^ there oughta be a comma in there
asciilifeform: motherland, to
Framedragger: i thought the suddenwealth was from the earlyadoptronium
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: though he had some
mircea_popescu: anyway, what's in the pic ? nice tits ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude dun quite grok hwo this shit works, does he.
asciilifeform: gurls, who in his words, truuluvv him and 'never even saw money'
mircea_popescu: a, so what's the problem.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But "user activated fork!!!" "How does world work?"
asciilifeform: 0 problem. but naturally invites as candidate for mpexcardano.io
mircea_popescu: there's ~3.5 bn gurlz out there you're aware.
asciilifeform: and 1,000,001 folx who could be author of 'mpex'.co , sure.
asciilifeform: it ain't a hard-smokinggun.
Framedragger: i'll remember to be careful about any pics with gurls, lest asciilifeform deduce me to be scamzor by steel logic
asciilifeform: Framedragger: historic record is that 100% of the folx who bragged about 'fear my seekrit mega-profitable co !' turned out to be shits.
asciilifeform: and often thieves of identifiable loot.
mircea_popescu: i kinda miss the early ones. remember the punk, what's his name, who thought he was a "crypto innovator" ? or that tv schmuck. or or or
asciilifeform: they all merged into one, in asciilifeform's head. but that comes from reading about'em years later.
BingoBoingo: "Mathematical Society" http://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-the-way/
asciilifeform: BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain << this is newz. how does node 'never let' ? i'd like to know
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BIP148 nodes will never let it reorg out the BIP148 chain << this is newz. how does node 'never let' ? i'd like to know << YOu don't know how ghettos work!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: gold trololol btw
asciilifeform: gotta be a gag
BingoBoingo: "Mr fancypants doctor think you are going to fix up the neighborhood? How about broken bottles in your yard and PLS MOAR DRUGZ, kthnx"
asciilifeform: ( re ams link )
Framedragger: i poelaw'd on that link. " Sadly, there is a direct correlation between high IQ and “earning” a PhD in a STEM discipline, which is all too reflective of how white cishet men have designed disciplinary concepts to reinforce their own power structures." (some comment. troll? dunno)
asciilifeform: i dun even have enuff bits in my lulzregister to hold it
asciilifeform: it overfloweth
mircea_popescu: it's kinda funny to me that in the end the fem-gay revolution came to the same conclusion it started by denying : "we are inferiorz to straight men"
mircea_popescu: only took them what, 3-4 decades ? not so bad.
asciilifeform: but guess what 'inferior is the new superior' because some roman d00dz didn't feed nearly enough uppity shits to lions etc
mircea_popescu: eh, brunette is the new blonde has been a meme for a long time now.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1879.99, vol: 11856.94249724 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1811.084, vol: 7766.89513 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1940.4, vol: 11695.76908415 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1690.117545, vol: 10855.61990000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1893.872, vol: 6451.76267153 | Volume-weighted last average: 1842.96808843
mircea_popescu: WHY IS IT CRASHING!
BingoBoingo: Bees?
shinohai goes with bees
ben_vulpes: bees!
ben_vulpes: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658434 < Do you have a source for this? And banning photons? What? Where is this discussed? In any case, there are two threads here 1) collective electrodynamics, which wants to be a reformulation of EM using A->, as it takes into account, as you say, the "collective action" of electrons. & 2) G4V, which applies t☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:26 mircea_popescu: came up with a way to explain away laser interferometry not showing these "grav waves" by declaring photons kulaks / enemy of the solid state or such.
gabriel_laddel_p: he same mathematical machinery (vector potential) to gravity and has a slightly different prediction than GR regarding the gravity wave (supposedly) detected at LIGO.
gabriel_laddel_p: We know that A-> exists, and is better than heaviside's formulation of maxwell's equations because it can describe the AB experiment, and because it does not have a preferred frame of reference / is lorentz invariant.
gabriel_laddel_p: my understanding is that the original quaternion formulation from maxwell is also lorentz invariant, but have not checked.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658436 < Agreed. Which is why I pasted the video (which yes, I will strip of its contents and put in blog), because it occurred after CE, and has 1 new, useful calculation.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:27 asciilifeform: it dun have enough meat on its bones, at least as presented in the b00k,
gabriel_laddel_p: Irrespective of its other features, the pedagogical elimination of Bohr's definition of the classical correspondence limit is useful (from CE).
gabriel_laddel_p: Interestingly, Ilan Kroo reached for the same formulation (A->) & same example (spherically symmetrical mass distribution) as CAM, but ~20 years earlier, and prior to gravity probe B, which confirmed (for some value of that word) the geodetic effect (frame dragging).
gabriel_laddel_p: from: http://aero.stanford.edu/gtrpaper/gtr.html
gabriel_laddel_p: *spherically symmetrical mass distribution with a much smaller mass inside of it that A-> induces a velocity in when moved...
shinohai: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p i'm only vaguely familar with the matter, but my understanding was that photons are un-existed.
mircea_popescu: a la phlogiston.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: ask a grad student (preferably one who works on antenna theory) what the A-> field _is_ and why D->/B->/E-> etc are _not_ sometime. The sheer weight of handwaving will adequately communicate why this is interesting.
mircea_popescu: i can't even be arsed to take the anglo formalism seriously. A-> field, really ? pshaw.