sina: good morning all
sina: public holiday here in AU!
sina: it's a beautiful day after raining all weekend, and from my education birds are having sex with bees
mircea_popescu: sina anal day in upside down land ?
sina: mircea_popescu: haha do I dare ask the meaning of "anal day"?
mircea_popescu: didn;'t you say it was a holiday down under ?
sina: I did
mircea_popescu: down under...
mircea_popescu: upside down...
mircea_popescu: GET IT ?
mircea_popescu: it's a poon!
sina: haha yeah, here "down under" is literally burned into the subconcious to mean "Australia" so we don't grok the phrase the same way
sina: it doesn't receive identicall connotations :P
mircea_popescu: identicanal conturbations
hanbot: lol gratuitous pooning
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, isn't it a wonder latrina isn't a racial slur ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, "i dunno what's with todd these days, he keeps fucking all these latrinas"...
mircea_popescu: certainly works.
sina: I dunno, I feel like it's a bit in the vein of "winblows"
sina: Stallmanesque insults
mircea_popescu: hm
sina: mircea_popescu: are you secretly Richard Stallman?
sina: that'd make so much sense!
hanbot: sina yer just a downer under ;D
mircea_popescu: no. for one thing my beard's way cooler.
sina: I have a fierce craving for burger today
mircea_popescu: that is good for burgercoin.
sina: hey I was going to ask about WoT
sina: so is deedbot the canonical WoT source?
mircea_popescu: go on ?
mircea_popescu: yeah
sina: and I noticed you can ask it for an S-expression of the entire WoT, that's cool
sina: so you can run your own "slave"
mircea_popescu: yup
sina: but, deedbot doesn't slave to anything itself?
sina: so (and maybe I am missing the point), you can't really "run your own node"
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
sina: um...as in, the logical topology of the WoT is a ...web... but to join the web you enter via a tree structure where the root is master, and all other nodes are slaves
sina: (deedbot being the root)
mircea_popescu: you're conflating things.
mircea_popescu: to enter the web, you have to have a rating.
sina: but one can only be rated via deedbot
sina: not saying that is good or bad, just asking in the general capability of the system
mircea_popescu: now, the formalism for recording that rating currently in overwhelming use is !!rate. there is no rule that thios must be so. it is currently so for convenience, and because deedbot is trustworthy. either of these can change, but this would affect little : the party who trusts you can enter that trust into the public record through whatever command
sina: the reason I ask is because last night I was thinking of a more coin style WoT, where everyone runs a node, there is an immutable shared log of ratings
mircea_popescu: why ?
sina: because I sometimes think things? :P
sina: it means you can rate from any node
mircea_popescu: yes, but for the things in your head to be called thinking, they must proceed form a basis. what is here the basis ?
sina: the basis I guess is, substituing the trustworthiness of a single bot with a cryptographic chain, being able to run your own "full node" of the WoT, which gives access to secondary/tertiary networks to participate via a gateway, etc
sina: not arguing this should be done, only relating the source of my thoughts which lead to the questions
sina: because I didn't know, maybe deedbot already does this kind of thing
mircea_popescu: did you read an' understand the "what the wot is" article ?
sina: is that the deedbot.org/help.html page?
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
sina: reading now, so you think the idea contravenes those principles?
mircea_popescu: i think the idea discusses an item not related to the actual item.
mircea_popescu: much like "wouldn't it be cool to make cars out of cardboard, they'd be easier to paint that way" misses the whole car thing
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the problem with cardboard is keeping it painted
sina: mircea_popescu: can you walk me through the hypothetical example case where you have woken up one morning and decided for some valid reason (e.g. deedbot WoT contents no longer match your local copy) that deedbot is no longer trustworthy but urgently want to enter a rating for me of -10 into the public record?
sina: do you just post a message here saying "deedbot sucks, I have rates sina -10 in my local copy, which should now be considered canonical via mpbot"?
mircea_popescu: for instance.
mircea_popescu: in practice it'd likely look a lot more like hey trinque wtf is this, followed by everyone perking up and an answer of some kind being produced and so on.
sina: lets say trinque modified it himself because he got syphilis
mircea_popescu: the fundamental flaw in your earlier mental process, which is periodically discussed in the logs, is that you try to take trust as an objective. trust isn't an objective, the reason i trust you is because I TRUST YOU, not because deedbot says i do. and the ONLY use of the knowledge that i trust you is that you can ask me about you. nothing else.
mircea_popescu: exactly opposite of the imperial certificate bullshit, which is 100% george costanza going "it's true i did nothing all week, but bear in mind i am in the smaller office". ie, "can you doctor ?" "no, not rly... but i do have a doctoring CERTIFICATE"
sina: CostanzaBot
mircea_popescu: but anyway -- if he modified them himself he gets to either convincingly fix it or else be replaced. just like anything else.
sina: I think I asked you this long ago, but you keep a local copy of the WoT and expect others to as well right?
mircea_popescu: not really expect anything. people are supposed to do their own thinking for themselves. but i expect i'd notice if my ratings weren't right.
mircea_popescu: then again, maybe i wouldn't.
mircea_popescu: review the gossipd discussions, they're instructive on the topic.
sina: yes I have been working my way through those
mircea_popescu: aha.
sina: although there seems to be a huge amount of contention
sina: between how you view those discussions and for example, asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: in fairness it's a large ball of yarn and while it flows splendidly from itself, nevertheless it does flow exactlty opposite to ~everyone's acculturation in the soviet empire.
sina: from my understanding of your view
sina: it's something like UUCP + crypto authentication
mircea_popescu: anyway, wasn't my impression there's substantial disagreement.
mircea_popescu: what's uucp ?
sina: unix-to-unix-copy
mircea_popescu: nah.
sina: an old protocol normally used for peering usenet
sina: mircea_popescu: there is 159 comments on http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document
mircea_popescu: aha
sina: with a fair bit of disagreement
mircea_popescu: there's a process to working out a mental image of a text. it involves inter alia building alternative models.
mircea_popescu: this dun constitute disagreement.
mircea_popescu: for perfect meta : re the matter of whether there is or there is not substantial disagreement, we aren't yet disagreeing. so far we're just trying to come to terms.
sina: fair
mircea_popescu: thyis is a fractally repeating point : the reason "social learning" as modelled by redditards doesn't work irl is the indirection layer. the reason gossipd is undefeatable in practice is... the indirection layer.
mircea_popescu: the reason textual methods do not work in practice is... the indirection layer. and so on.
mircea_popescu: "oh but he said nigger 85 times!!" "yes but he just uses that to denote tomatoes."
mircea_popescu: the expectation that if you listen in a conversation of people you don't know you'll nevertheless be able to discern what is being said is pretty much THE thing distinguishing the esl anglotard from actual thinking people with a functioning head and part of a culture etc.
mircea_popescu: (and yes "multiculturalism" is the cheapo excuse of lazy stupid people to not have an actual culture ; much like "the convenience" of fast food is the excuse inept housewives use to not work the kitchen.)
sina: that reminds me I need to eat food
mircea_popescu: enjoy
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668696 << while I maintain the thing with integrity, I enjoy the benefits of a world where it exists and functions properly.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 02:13 mircea_popescu: but anyway -- if he modified them himself he gets to either convincingly fix it or else be replaced. just like anything else.
trinque: this, to someone with a brain, is ample incentive
trinque: meanwhile sina, you get to discover whether there are such folks in the world as can maintain a db of numbers without diddling them... to think!
sina: no offense meant trinque, just a hypothetical
trinque: none taken
mircea_popescu: it's really not so different from yest when you and ben_vulpes were working on the mpfhf.
mircea_popescu: "Why dun it work ?" "Fix it!" etc.
mircea_popescu: or when candi lust was made, or when absolutely anything else tmsr-happened.
sina: trinque: you might not have the specific form of syphilis which induces number diddling, but can you protect against... COSMIC RAYS
trinque: thing has daily backups and logs of all interactions
trinque: so prolly
mircea_popescu: unlike the github cathedral-of-garbage-built-by-anonyous-rats-randomly-ambling about, there's actual people in charge which means the buck always stops somewhere. so it's not exactly "bug reports", it's more in the vein of "and here's your summons to parliament"
mircea_popescu: sina and if it becomes an issue, it can be logified. the logger was originally single item you know.
sina: sorry, that was just me trying to troll you
mircea_popescu: in fact, deedbot was intended to be federated from the get go... or in fact no. the item deedbot replaced because the operator got syphilis (ie, assbot) was created specifically because failure of previous item (operator travelled unexpectedly, thing went down -- tis all in the logs) and was intended to be federated from the get-go
sina: rigghthththtttt
sina: see this was the original source of my questioning
mircea_popescu: except nanotube never actually fixed gribble, for whatever reason (such as for instance - because it wasn't erroneously broken but deliberately broken)
sina: "maybe deedbot does something similar to what I was thinking"
mircea_popescu: it gets either fixed or replaced if not fixable.
mircea_popescu: this is how engineering, and human industry, go.
sina: so does it federate trinque?
mircea_popescu: not currently.
trinque: sina: it does in that nothing stops you from copying the wot sexp at an interval, doing whatever things your castle likes doing with the output
mircea_popescu: trinque yes but it won't accept a "this is x's rating for y's, honest" from an altbot.
trinque: certainly, and questionable whether it's a good idea
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: certainly premature to inquire in the matter.
ben_vulpes: in re candi_lustt, i'll point out that anyone in l2 could trivially reproduce her elsewhere, if phf's examples didn't drive the point home
sina: yeah so what happened with #b-a?
mircea_popescu: tis in teh logs!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yah but why make another slut, just reuse the extant one lel
ben_vulpes: replace, reproduce...
mircea_popescu: chronosones...
ben_vulpes: they're not errors in copying, they're built in tests of the copier!
ben_vulpes: sina: how do i build this thing
ben_vulpes: > ./mpfhf.go:52: syntax error: unexpected EOF, expecting expression
ben_vulpes: oh hm repo has something entirely different from trilema
ben_vulpes: nifty
sina: ben_vulpes: sorry I don't think it pasted right
mircea_popescu: o.O
sina: last I looked it was missing a bunch of the code
sina: ben_vulpes: if you have 0 experience building go binaries, prepare for increased blood pressure
sina: you need to set a GOPATH variable, e.g export GOPATH=~/Development/go and then clone the repo to $GOPATH/src/github.com/sinner-/mpfhf-golang
ben_vulpes: i can handle tooling, ty
sina: I just find it really annoying the way they do it
sina: that and dependency management are the two weakpoints of golang I feel
sina: for what it is
ben_vulpes: getting odd results when i do some baseline poking, a message of "a" prints a toBinArray value of [1 1 0 0 0 0 1]
sina: wtf
ben_vulpes: just running fmt.Print(M) downstream of the toBinArray call
ben_vulpes: naively, i'd expect that to be [0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1]
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: dropped a leading zero?
ben_vulpes: wacky, fmt.Print(len(M)) -> 7
sina: oh
sina: so when I was building it, I was trying to match the "MP kicks ass!" output, which starts with a 1 in the example (and IIRC when I did it in python)... the original string I had was printing a leading 0
sina: so I tweaked it
sina: The [M]essage chosen is MP kicks ass!, its bit-value is
sina: 1001101101000010000011010111101001110001111010111110011100000110000111100111110011100001
sina: http://trilema.com/mp_fabulous_hashonator.php
ben_vulpes: yes but why is the length of the array of bits seven and not eight
ben_vulpes: i mean i don't really know what you're getting at, but why is the length of the bit array resulting from eating a single char 7 and not 8
sina: because the format string used drops the leading 0
sina: (AFAIK)
ben_vulpes: no buddy
ben_vulpes: len(M)
ben_vulpes: is seven
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668782☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 03:23 ben_vulpes: wacky, fmt.Print(len(M)) -> 7
sina: ben_vulpes: can you change
sina: - binString = fmt.Sprintf("%s%b", binString, c)
sina: + binString = fmt.Sprintf("%s%.8b", binString, c)
ben_vulpes: oh that's not a builtin aha
ben_vulpes: much better
sina: mircea_popescu: please confirm spec, are we dropping leading 0 (if exists) or not
sina: if not, I need to update the python one too
mircea_popescu: dropping what leading 0 ?
ben_vulpes puzzled
ben_vulpes: fwiw with that change it *now* matches the output of my implementation.
ben_vulpes: at sixty four bits and hashing the character a.
sina: mircea_popescu: if you look at the line above for "MP kicks ass!" from your PHP impl
ben_vulpes: and several other values
sina: it starts with a 1
mircea_popescu: sina prolly because it's a piece of shit.
ben_vulpes: again sina php implementation is of an earlier outdated spec
sina: ok fair
mircea_popescu: yes but what's he to go on.
mircea_popescu: and besides, this sounds like php boog.
ben_vulpes: i did it from the spec, not the php.
ben_vulpes: did not even look at php because boogs!
sina: its cool, I had it correct to begin with, but I modified it to match the thing I was seeing, my bad
sina: ben_vulpes: have pushed updated ver to golang ver, let me figure out same for python
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: now gotta wrestle with anaconda of "google stack for performance or pystack for not-being-google"
ben_vulpes: pick one, you'll go nuts maintaining both
ben_vulpes: aye, can confirm matching hashes on your default string
sina: just because Rob Pike and co work at the goog doesn't mean golang is goog
sina: they mostly write their junk in C++ and java from what I hear
ben_vulpes: sure, and swift isn't apple lang lol
trinque: google stack comes with built-in curl | bash !
trinque: obviously best
ben_vulpes: yeah that "go build" shit pulling in rando code from rando github accounts super great cool stuff
sina: yeah :(
ben_vulpes: very easy to get started with tho
ben_vulpes: such developer adoption
sina: that (and the dependency hell it introduces) is why I try and stick to their impressively comprehensive stdlib
trinque: sounds like a guy who would end up appreciating common lisp.
sina: probably you don't care but I have been working on this for funsies https://github.com/sinner-/blogir
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo suggests honda goldwing 'valkyrie' for pete_dushenski's next mid life crisis << nah, too "soaking up the open road". goldwings are for retired vagabonds with a penchant for leather chaps and 60s rock. sort of a post-life-crisis-mobile really.
ben_vulpes: sina: eh just use wordpress
ben_vulpes: there's a fork of some fraction of what drives trilema floating around the wot
ben_vulpes: what, you're going to spend your precious energy furthering the browser hegemony?
trinque: googs on both ends
sina: how does building a webapp to learn golang further the browser hegenomy?!
ben_vulpes: oh i thought you were like a golang professional or some such
sina: lol
ben_vulpes: trinque: boogs!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: what, "european by alliance" cars nao ? << well, ghosn stepped down as nissan ceo so whatever bridge there was is burnt. now it's turbomowereich because nothing cheats nazi emissions standards quite like 'em.
ben_vulpes: sina: why, i must ask, "learn go"?
sina: ben_vulpes: professionally I'm not even a developer. Companies hire me because I can stuff at scale. but still don't understand how it furthers any hegemony
sina: because I think it's a pretty nice high level language
trinque not trying to pile on, but "I can stuff at scale" is entertaining as shit
ben_vulpes: solid sentence construction to boot
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: But still greater potential power to thrust ratio!
ben_vulpes: sina: it's a google product, you're "learning the lang" via writing a weblog that most likely generates html for...the browser. google lives by the browser.
sina: that is some fancy mental gymnastics, but ok
ben_vulpes: why not write numerical integrator? bignum stack?
ben_vulpes: implement stephenson's orbital swarm trajectory planner?
ben_vulpes: million billion toy projects that do not entail even touching webshit.
BingoBoingo: sina: Consider the experiment where you learned trading by "seeding the orderbook" The "at scale" business is similar.
sina: careful, browsers rely on numbers, don't want to further google hegemony
mircea_popescu: lmao
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mno. let's do the maff. valkyrie first :
ben_vulpes: sina: math does not require xml, drop the sophistry.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Of course not stock
BingoBoingo: But shirley you can aftermarket compression into it's flat siz
pete_dushenski: !~calc 752/102
BingoBoingo: *six
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: 752/102 = 7.372549019607843
pete_dushenski: vs. blackzilla
pete_dushenski: !~calc 3800/625
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: 3800/625 = 6.08
sina: BingoBoingo: how is it remotely similar?
BingoBoingo: And lets not forget bonus horsepower like feelings engendered by feeling the wind on one's testicles
sina: ben_vulpes: I didn't claim it did, the point is, taking your logic to its conclusion one can't do anything because google uses computers to do stuff
ben_vulpes: sina: lol not even wrong
trinque: "not everything is political" and "I just want to"
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: two wheeled endangerment does much for feelings engenderment, it's true, but not only way to skin testicles.
sina: ben_vulpes: still not following, but that's ok, you explained your train of thought
BingoBoingo: Anyways, what happened to your romantic feelings for flat six? Is flat six less sexy when it sends all of it's power to one wheel?
trinque: correct number is 8
ben_vulpes: ^
ben_vulpes: sina: surely you see how universal reliance on the browser drives unthinking acceptance of the imperial key signing model, right?
ben_vulpes: every time a child gets another hint that building things in html is a sensible way to spend a life, an angel of freedom loses her wings and plummets screaming towards the ground
ben_vulpes: think of the angels
ben_vulpes: think of the children
trinque: lawl
ben_vulpes: just say no to html
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: six is six, which isn't sex regardless of config. because not eight m8!
sina: ben_vulpes: I'll listen to this drivel when you take down your blog
trinque: and displacement matters; just ask her!
sina: ben_vulpes: and wotpaste, etc
ben_vulpes: army we have!
trinque: btcbase.org/log
trinque: aw crap
ben_vulpes: sina: gotta talk to folks, gotta share text
ben_vulpes: sina, why don't you ask what i do for a living?
ben_vulpes: html!
ben_vulpes: "intimacy breeds contempt"
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-28#1649534☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-28 21:28 asciilifeform: which means NO NEW NONFITTINGINHEAD items!!
sina: that explains this braindead discussion
ben_vulpes: sina: and before you start throwing around words like "drivel" and "braindead", i'm not the one who lost his keys.
trinque: sina: dunno what you thought the forum was for, but this
sina: ben_vulpes: I *didn't* lose them
sina: I thought I had because I couldn't decrypt some OTP, if you recall
ben_vulpes: oh right, something something knobs on gpg?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-02#1313929 << while we're on it☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-11-02 14:59 mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/05/thank_god_the_heart_attack_gri.html << pretty great explanation on how psychological defenses work.
trinque: the republic grinds 'em away, leaves a man, or nothing
ben_vulpes: sina: keep coming back, it works if you work it
sina: I follow everything you're saying, but it is plainly dumb to say writing a funsies webapp to learn a language has anything to do with anything
ben_vulpes: the notion does depend on several years of shared context, yeah
sina: I'm vaguely aware of the shared context, I get there is some stuff that is considered dumb around these neck of the woods, I just don't care
ben_vulpes: i mean you're a smart guy, right? what's funsies about generating html trees?
ben_vulpes: honest q
ben_vulpes: surely this is something you can do on demand without thinking already
sina: generating 24 lines of html template took about 3 seconds
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> sina: keep coming back, it works if you work it << lol, this stuff is contagious
BingoBoingo: !~step12
jhvh1: 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: pretty sure my sojurn through 12steplandia predates yours
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: it may.
sina: funsies was in figuring out how to make a request pipeline out of handlers, or goroutines, etc
BingoBoingo: But TMSR is it's own program for awakening the spirit
sina: funsies was being able to bang out a golang mpfhf because I had already kicked the tyres on the lang
sina: (and it really was fun)
ben_vulpes: ooh BingoBoingo the tomatoes have put forth flowers
ben_vulpes: buds i mean
BingoBoingo: Nice
ben_vulpes: these things are going to be monster bushes
BingoBoingo: Vines, absolutely monster vines covering everything in a 10 foot radius prolly
ben_vulpes: i may have to put stakes in the ground and hold the damn things up
ben_vulpes: standby 3
BingoBoingo: You prolly should start on that before the flowers turn to fruit and get heavy
ben_vulpes: aye boss
BingoBoingo: I mean nature has a way and all that, but... stakes make for cleaner fruit and a bett chance of you taking the first bit instead of vermin
ben_vulpes: i don't plan to suboptimally anything these beasts
BingoBoingo has one plot that stayed sunny and one that has been eclipsed by tree. Sunny plot doing great. One in tree eclipse is experiencing stunted vine size, but greater fruiting at present.
BingoBoingo: Hard to tell how the good lord Bingo's plots will turn out this experiment
sina: ok
sina: python version updated too
sina: mircea_popescu: you may want to update comments,
sina: i enjoy growing tomatoes too, but these days cherry tomatos mostly. hardy, prolific
mircea_popescu: aite.
sina: far fewer issues with insects
sina: mircea_popescu: M = list(map(int, ''.join(map(lambda p: '{0:08b}'.format(p, 'b'), map(ord, message))))) << for python
sina: and binString = fmt.Sprintf("%s%.8b", binString, c) << for golang
sina: ben_vulpes: appreciate confirmation
mircea_popescu: holy shit im not diffing tcoments by hand what is htis\
sina: either that or I can re-comment, you can delete the old ones and then fix whatever <pre> stuff you did last time
sina goes back to reading http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439691 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-23 23:35 mircea_popescu: 2 requires the man who just saw the product of his not-inconsequential efforts die over "not doing what mp says, with money" have to choose whether to do what mp says... but with people, this time. we did in fact start this channel together, just like bitbet, and he did do a lot of infrastructure work here, just as there. so... what do ?
sina: which somehow includes a religious discussion on the morality of returning mistakenly transferred bitcoins, including King Solomon bible ref
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/blooming-beasts << CH - blooming beasts!
ben_vulpes: sina: i hope you appreciate the bug-spottment as well lol
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: see blorg
sina: ben_vulpes: ah doo
ben_vulpes: sina: sensible thing to do is make a genesis of your shit, stand up an mp-wp and post it on your blog
ben_vulpes: or use your golang thing and migrate a few years later like i did
sina: clarify "a genesis of your shit"
ben_vulpes: have you caught up to "v"
sina: yes
ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
ben_vulpes: in other miserable urls
ben_vulpes: "genesis" is argot for root of a patch tree
ben_vulpes: per asciilifeform 's http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/64138473AEA635A2A46A4069689DB37D002E021C31FD1E2B209DAAC70483F2F3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1446...4159 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (46-181-251-180.goodline.info. RU KEM)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/64138473AEA635A2A46A4069689DB37D002E021C31FD1E2B209DAAC70483F2F3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1478...8163 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (46-181-251-180.goodline.info. RU KEM)
mircea_popescu has been thinking... this whole code in comments thing dun werk wortha crap
sina: mircea_popescu: correct
mircea_popescu: myeah. what's one to do ;/
sina: I'm fine with git. I have a cgit thing in my castle and also push to github for public use
sina: I know y'all hate it
mircea_popescu: your idea of fun turns out problematioc for the republic!
sina: you could deed it
mircea_popescu: i can see it though. heck, i actually indulge. whole candi thing was nothing else.
mircea_popescu: the problem is management really. code keeps wanting to be edited, comments on blog are a different thing.
sina: correct
mircea_popescu: deeds similarly -- these words for all time./
sina: blog in general is not conducive to code, IMO anyway
mircea_popescu: possibly.
ben_vulpes: phf has hosted vpatches so far without much fuss
mircea_popescu: CERTAINLY not conducive to the google notion of code.
ben_vulpes: not to nominate someone else for work
mircea_popescu: which may be the problem.
mircea_popescu: which is also why i say your notion of fun is problematic.
sina: mircea_popescu: feh. this is what you get http://cascadianhacker.com/an-implementation-of-mircea-popescus-fabulous-hash-function
sina: instead of a nice chain of diffs
mircea_popescu: but consider for a moment -- why should code be something else than "words for all time" ?
ben_vulpes: sina: nonsense, this is what you get: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot&search=
mircea_popescu: silly argument being anything but "because it'll take forever mp!"
sina: ben_vulpes: that's a bit nicer
sina: ben_vulpes: what does the update button do?
mircea_popescu: sina he does have a point -- this is a very fine op for you to learn v through practice. make a genesis for your thang.
ben_vulpes: sina: dunno, try pushing it
ben_vulpes: perhaps -- nothing!
ben_vulpes: possibly, something!
sina: I did
ben_vulpes: doubtful anything github-like
sina: mircea_popescu: I did look at V as you suggested, including reading through (I think it was) asciilifeform py impl
ben_vulpes: if you put text in the box and press the button the url params change
mircea_popescu: how'd it seem ?
ben_vulpes: i'm going to stop pulling levers for you here soon sina
sina: ben_vulpes: ??
sina: the text box is clearly for search
sina: text in the box click update, not different from just clicking update with no text
sina: mircea_popescu: it seemed interesting, the "thing to do" appeared to be write ones own impl, which could be funsies
mircea_popescu: also yes.
mircea_popescu: allows you a trb editing environment at any rate
sina: trb?
mircea_popescu: the real bitcoin
sina: I feel like I can have some fun writing it in a language that might troll ben_vulpes
sina: Visual Basic .NET or something
mircea_popescu: lua ?
sina: hah yeah
ben_vulpes: "it's homoiconic! everything's a string!"
mircea_popescu: homo-something, at any rate
sina: maybe I will write it in XSLT
trinque: haw
ben_vulpes: sina: consider if you want anyone in the wot to /read/ your work
sina: consider I kid
mircea_popescu: consider there's girls watching teh dick clubbing
ben_vulpes: am curious to see what he'll pick!
sina: hey mircea_popescu in the long list of things I have been meaning to ask, wasn't MPex listed on MPex?
sina: and now it seems not?
trinque: also in logs.
mircea_popescu: yah. there's a closing statement and evertything on trilema, also in lgos etc.
ben_vulpes: did not take xslt seriously, f# woulda been an actually funny joke
mircea_popescu: in other lulz,
mircea_popescu: !~google lesser racket-tailed drongo
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Lesser racket - tailed drongo - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_racket-tailed_drongo>; Greater racket - tailed drongo - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_racket-tailed_drongo>; Lesser Racquet - tailed Drongo (Dicrurus remifer) | HBW Alive: <http://www.hbw.com/species/lesser-racquet-tailed-drongo-dicrurus-remifer>
mircea_popescu: is xslt the excel language ?
sina: its an XML transformation language
mircea_popescu: oh i see
sina: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439585 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-23 22:19 nubbins`: mp is just a guy who plays MMORPGs and wanks on irc all day, to me
sina: my suspicions have been confirmed!
mircea_popescu: o noes!
sina: lolll http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439668 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-23 23:04 mrottenkolber: I know you are all gonna hate this, but for what its worth, I got some Git/V interop going: https://github.com/eugeneia/vgit
mircea_popescu: i dun think we even hated it that much
sina: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1439858 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-24 11:57 nubbins`: just wanted to take this opportunity, while i can still self-voice, to let you all know that most of you are weeaboo basement-dwelling troglodytes and i respect very few of you
mircea_popescu: it's like a whole other internet right there!
sina: so fuckin good
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B756FFCD46984A2976CA04D0939CA6D4C65CF681F2210679F0456D7D62E021E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1551...3123 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hordubal.apedia.com. CZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B756FFCD46984A2976CA04D0939CA6D4C65CF681F2210679F0456D7D62E021E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1769...5863 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hordubal.apedia.com. CZ)
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-09#1092975☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-04-09 03:09 nubbins`: mircea_popescu for someone who has to cut off a finger to achieve it... it probably is
trinque: fucking weird guy
mircea_popescu: the what now ?
trinque: didn't he saw off a finger or something?
mircea_popescu: who did ?
trinque: teh nubs
mircea_popescu: really ? i guess i musta forgot
mircea_popescu: amusingly, i suppose body unintegrity is solid defense against charge of weeaboism.
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-06#1611910☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-06 18:22 trinque: also there's a second space program that made contact with the grays, and the pedo democrats are part of a "breakaway society" that is going to neuter everyone of inferior class
sina: https://www.imperialviolet.org/2010/04/01/ctgrind.html
sina: (Checking that functions are constant time with Valgrind)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2940.11, vol: 8405.06242117 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2868.0, vol: 6703.4332 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2832.8, vol: 21889.16032757 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3029.9493, vol: 10614.75230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2899.998, vol: 5148.67505997 | Volume-weighted last average: 2900.58821671
shinohai: !~later tell sina Personal curiosity .... do you still stand by this statement/? http://archive.is/ozilM
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
sina: LOL
sina: shinohai: thegrugq makes a joke, that infosec people have no good advice but just always say "use signal, use tor" for all problems
shinohai: hue
sina: it's like, you say, someone hacked my box and stole my bitcoins and then my response is "use signal. use tor"
shinohai likes sins already
shinohai: *sina
sina: and then you say "someone phished my brother" and your response is "use signal. use tor"
sina: err s/your/my/
sina: you get the idea
sina: what are you stalkin me?
sina: :D
shinohai: Was checking out your github and saw link to twitter. I got a kick out of that tweet is all.
sina: it's probably my most popular tweet ever! :P
shinohai: I've taken a twitter break. It's kind of an unfriendly environment for purveyors of posterior such as myself.
sina: I don't really use it anymore
sina: except occasionally I read thegrugq twitter feed for some lulz
shinohai: Definitely a lulz farm, I have harvested many a Qntra from that pool.
shinohai pours another espresso and continues reading the mega-log from past 24 hrs ....
sina: TFW ur a neo-Nazi and then decide to convert to Islam http://www.democratizeus.com/2017/06/11/neo-nazi-explosives-released-bond-deemed-not-threat-judge/
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669005 << just a poor interface to switch branches for people without javascript. (the drop down thingy switches on select, but if you don't have js enabled. i perhaps should add a button hider if you do..)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 04:45 sina: text in the box click update, not different from just clicking update with no text
phf: the interface is not very thought through because there's not enough dog fooding happening. vpatches require higher overhead than git blobs by design following the principle of measure ten times, cut once. but that means that it takes longer to evolve a workflow around them since the trickle of new updates is much slower
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669038 << i had some interop going between v and https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/MqExtension. apparently before cvs but after "copy entire folder to make a version" there were various approaches to maintaining patch sets, that can be applied to v's folder full of patches approach☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 05:20 sina: lolll http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1439668
phf: e.g. http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/quilt
phf: highest overhead when working with v is making snapshotting cheaper (which also ties into keeping multiple incomplete work in progress vpatches in the same build, and being able to put the updates into respective vpatches). that's something that local versioning system might help with (though asciilifeform for example considers that sort of automation anathema)
asciilifeform: phf: not necessarily -- http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-23#890173☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-10-23 04:48 asciilifeform: use git for private dildonic pleasure. or for playing with friends. i do.
asciilifeform: strict cut between 'harem and forum' there.
phf: oh word. i even remember that thread, but it didn't stick
asciilifeform: i use git and similar extensively ~in house~
asciilifeform: but no longer publish using them
asciilifeform: while, notice, happy to publish using ephemeral pastes
asciilifeform: because they carry the right idea along ('this is unauthenticated rubbish, use entirely at own risk')
mod6: mornin'
asciilifeform: heya mod6
mod6: how goes?
asciilifeform: phf: the thing i repeatedly caution folx against, is to do anything that might result in the existence of vpatches which require tools ~other than v~ to fit-in-head/operate on.
asciilifeform: now this -- anathema.
asciilifeform: that road goes straight to shithub.
asciilifeform: mod6: just got home, no interesting noos
phf also just came back from the woods
mod6: asciilifeform: cool
mod6: phf: cool
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669058 >> this is a lulzgem, 'I also tested BN_mod_exp_mont_consttime from OpenSSL since that's a large function which calls functions from several other files. It turns out not to be constant time! There's a secret dependent memory access...'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 07:18 sina: https://www.imperialviolet.org/2010/04/01/ctgrind.html
phf: tis the season of naked girls in the woods festivals, i must therefore oblige
asciilifeform: 'This variant of BN_mod_exp_mont() uses fixed windows and the special precomputation memory layout to limit data-dependency to a minimum to protect secret exponents'
mod6: phf: haha. for sure.
asciilifeform: 'It only claims to "limit" the side-channel leaks. I don't know how serious this is...'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mod6: heh
shinohai: ffs juantelez fix thy connection
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf l0gz feature request -- turn the href in links to *.bitcoin-assets.com into btcbase ( printed text of link can remain same, in principle )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell Framedragger l0gz feature request -- turn the href in links to *.bitcoin-assets.com into btcbase ( printed text of link can remain same, in principle )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes l0gz feature request -- turn the href in links to *.bitcoin-assets.com into btcbase ( printed text of link can remain same, in principle )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: iirc that'd be all of'em..
phf: asciilifeform: give me an example from log, because the way i understand that request, it should already be working
asciilifeform: phf: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-23#890622☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-10-23 06:07 assbot: 24 results for 'stalin from:asciilifeform' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=stalin+from%3Aasciilifeform
phf: ah
asciilifeform: and http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-23#890626 etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-10-23 06:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-06-2014#719963
asciilifeform: million of these.
phf: asciilifeform: so right now, if you click in the little up arrow, it'll take you to the location in btcbase. i think i might've disabled link substitution at some point on account of it being a subtle log manipulation
asciilifeform: my thinking is -- at some point the old kakotronic logs will either go away or be subsumed by enemy for whatever purpose ( if only ip gluetrap ) -- and it is the Wrong Thing to countenance the use of'em.
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/06/12/o-brave-new-code/ << Ossasepia - O Brave New Code
phf: asciilifeform: added both, search and ref. let me know if you have other examples..
phf: fwiw, i'm not parsing search, so it'll only map in the simplest cases (though your specific example works)
asciilifeform: phf: neato, seems to work...
asciilifeform: worx great , in fact, ty phf !!
trinque sees that #b-a still discusses not much else than #t, closes
asciilifeform: trinque: kako now runs a public pissoire , voice-for-all, complete with gimmebots, ethertards, etc., many joys
trinque: retirement with dignity eh
asciilifeform: trinque: assbot is not really used for anything, nobody's rated anyone in eons, logs will likely run until he trips over the cable. hence thread re links.
trinque: aha
mod6: Speaking of l0gz requests... i have a bot request...
mod6: Let's setup a111 to also parse links from logs.bvulpes.com/.../ like links from btcbase.
trinque: asciilifeform: he thought this was for one man's fapping in the mirror, and now, has it.
mircea_popescu: mod6 why not scriba :D
mircea_popescu: he can just make the logger speak like anyone else neh ?
phf: scriba is not ben_vulpes's bot, so presumably the question is why don't ben_vulpes put up his own log speaker
mod6: sure. i suppose so. i presently feel bad when pasting in links from logs.bv since it doesn't get auto-parsed.
mod6: ah. ok. well that could work too. anyways, was just a suggestion.
phf: fwiw i need to add ben_vulpes's links to btcbase anyway, because it also breaks xref facility
shinohai: Afternoon mod6, fellow Republicans!
asciilifeform: bots attempting to process output from other bots makes for potentially hilarious (try GB log bloat...) bugs
asciilifeform: so imho it's a thing to avoid on general principle. let each one speak for self.
trinque: heh, wasn't there a time when deedbot chattered for pages all by itself? I vaguely recall
phf: that's not how btcbase works.
mircea_popescu: yes, the rule is that each logger reads his own.
asciilifeform: trinque: that was assbot
mircea_popescu: it's not ok for a111 to speak out unbidden, with the sole exception of its own log
phf: a111 can easily speak on behalf of any of the logger, because i need to parse other loggers to keep the xref facility consistent. for political reasons, a111 only speaks for own logs, but it ~knows~ at the time of utterance where the link is supposed to go to
mircea_popescu: pretty cool.
mircea_popescu thinks this is exactly as it should be.
mod6: diana_coman is a warrior; nice post
mod6: hai shinohai
shinohai: I invited her here to !~tits, so far no reply to my email >>> http://archive.is/ycQBG
phf: “Beginning with version 6.0, IPython stopped supporting compatibility with Python versions lower than 3.3 including all versions of Python 2.7.”
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: gcc5ification marches on.
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-03#1665170 etc )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:47 asciilifeform: in such a way as to judas goat the authors of said code to rewrite it such that it DEMANDS the new 'improved' compiler.
mircea_popescu: ourdemocracy gotta get everyone wearing the new pantsuit!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668882 << don't ever go to the third world, btw. every girl aspires to learn "criminology" at umd and every boy http://trilema.com/2013/i-dont-no-biari-i-know-a-littel-java/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 03:52 ben_vulpes: every time a child gets another hint that building things in html is a sensible way to spend a life, an angel of freedom loses her wings and plummets screaming towards the ground
phf: ben_vulpes: does your logger run on UTC?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668953 << dude's in fucking love, clearly. yo benjie : that's how plants look irl, not girl's fault you grew up in the boot of a 2 seater roadster!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 04:18 deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/blooming-beasts << CH - blooming beasts!
mircea_popescu: also, scamtitle, i read "breasts".
phf: +1
phf: op didn't deliver
mircea_popescu: also kinda biased by living in jungle nao. yesterday scraped off some gregarious antsy-wasp nest off one window, within hours flies were sucking the life out of the larvae fallen on the window sill ; later that window found different sort of wasp nest hidden in between sliding doors, with hunting wolf spider treating the cells like so many cans of preserve. and it rained for a month and everything needs a machete.
mircea_popescu: later that evening*
shinohai curses juantelez
mircea_popescu: ya enough of this bs huh.
shinohai thanks mircea_popescu kindly, tips hat
mircea_popescu: aww, just as i was sitting down to read the man's twitter, turns out it is "protected". scam!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669067 << which one is signal ? the current telegram being groomed for faux "record breaking acquisition" by winapplefacebook ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 10:29 sina: it's like, you say, someone hacked my box and stole my bitcoins and then my response is "use signal. use tor"
mircea_popescu: "how was that shit 20bn ?" "it was before they bought it hue"
asciilifeform: !#s marlinspike
a111: 25 results for "marlinspike", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=marlinspike
asciilifeform: ^ perpetrator of subj
asciilifeform: aka 'pgp is OBSOLETE!111 use keybase etc'
asciilifeform: infamous 'seekoority guru' muppet
asciilifeform: and peddler of multicoloured-phones.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669085 << yes and quite frankly this is becoming it's own sort of problem.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 14:27 phf: the interface is not very thought through because there's not enough dog fooding happening. vpatches require higher overhead than git blobs by design following the principle of measure ten times, cut once. but that means that it takes longer to evolve a workflow around them since the trickle of new updates is much slower
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to piss on the remnants of the cathedralbazaar, but it's another thing to not have a good answer to teh network effects.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the naming convention (moldbug, marlinspike, etcetera) suggests someone in an office farm in maryland./
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quasiliterate anglos tend to come up with very similar names, yes
mircea_popescu: that whole x-of-the-y brainmold.
mircea_popescu: no wonder pantsuit party has no substantial disagreement with china becoming dominating power. they watch that inept chinese writing method and get wet.
asciilifeform: it is an almost 'african' pattern, 'at one time my grandfather walked on a bridge, i heard... i'ma call meself Bob Bridgebuilder' etc
mircea_popescu: there's no such linguistic uniformity in africa.
asciilifeform: not re the language, but re the thought pattern
mircea_popescu: they're technologically uniform in their ineptitude, but linguistically there's plenty of sane exemplars in the ~1k or so live languages.
mircea_popescu: ah, that's harder to capture
shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCISZYcWAAIicQ9.jpg "Ethereum blockchain under heavy pressure"
shinohai digs deeper into these lulz
mircea_popescu: they should just segweb it or w/e it's called.
asciilifeform: TB eth blox when!
asciilifeform: PB! why think small.
asciilifeform: every bacterium Has The Right to Tx!11
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it is an almost 'african' pattern, 'at one time my grandfather walked on a bridge, i heard... i'ma call meself Bob Bridgebuilder' etc << AHA, marlinspike presented as "hippie recreational sailor"
mircea_popescu: "nobody reads" trilema, such as eg "not smart enough to sling dope" article. but EVERYONE EXECUTES it.
BingoBoingo: Moldbug presented as stale cubile rage vessel
mircea_popescu: hurr durr an thanks for all teh fishes, you self-determined, independent minded schmucks you.
mircea_popescu: what'd one have to be smoking to not realise ethereum's onl;y function is to siphon value from the web horde into the hands of bitcoin holders is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: i suppose old taco bell wrappers rolled up.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669195 << plox to elaborate?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 17:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669085 << yes and quite frankly this is becoming it's own sort of problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly as phf describes, there's a certain drag/lift factor in work being done. have you noticed how effort allocation tends to follow "what's happening" more than "i've though about this" ?
asciilifeform: dunno, everything on asciilifeform's plate has been there for literally years
mircea_popescu: from a purely alien perspective, in a town with decaying infrastructure you'll still see a bunch of men gathered around the guy souping up his car, rather than gathered around the places which desperately need maintenance work.
mircea_popescu: this base tendency is what the whole google/apple/etc (redhat, you name it, "open source") shitworlds try to cater to.
mircea_popescu: it's ok to point out how stupid it is, sure. it's dubious to not have some kind of an answer. which dun seem like we have.
mircea_popescu dislikes the notion of guilt tripping people as a resource allocation mechanism.
asciilifeform: their attempts are a laugh, though -- their picture of 'sexy project' is about as appealing as syphilis
mircea_popescu: sure. but what's this do.
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me that there is a problem described here, such that could admit an answer.
mircea_popescu: to me either. but it's clear that there might be something.
asciilifeform: ability to properly direct resources (of self , and sometimes others ) is afaik what even makes, meaningfully, 'lord'
mircea_popescu: and ability to drive is what makes, properly, a driver. it STILL HELPS to tell people "objects in rearview mirror are closer than they appear".
asciilifeform: tru.
mircea_popescu: because it's not all that intuitive.
asciilifeform: naggum had an interesting discussion re cl ( and iirc also mentioned ada, his other-language ) in re discouragement of 'easy to write small throwaway programs' as a factor in building durable infrastructure ( vs liquishit, which in his time consisted of microshit and of perlism )
asciilifeform: so to a certain extent tools can shape habit. and the bridges are maintained, instead of folx clustering around the souped car.
asciilifeform: but the responsibility to be a man rather than monkey -- cannot be delegated to tool.
mircea_popescu: no argument with either of these.
mircea_popescu: but presenting cogently and in a tight package the man-monkey difference can't possibly hurt the recent escapee off the "i can't believe it's not plato's" cave.
asciilifeform: i've found that teaching ada to c programmer is almost a miniature course in subj
mircea_popescu: moreover, replacing a coke habit with a workout habit is, in practice and experience, the cheapest, safest and surest way to rehab crackwhores.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i saw trims of that in the logs lol.
mod6: asciilifeform: heh, my bad.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668953 << /me didn't even get to do a garden this year :[☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 04:18 deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/blooming-beasts << CH - blooming beasts!
asciilifeform: mod6: i was actually thinking moar of own experience with it, than yours
mod6: ah. yeah, well, eitherway - i appreciate the guidence.
mircea_popescu: dude this diana_coman poem thing is pretty fucking epic.
mircea_popescu: chick's got aptitude.
mod6: for sure.
mircea_popescu: and the fundamental point is quite solid : the monkey hates thought, because hey, why won't you just sit and groom with the rest of 'em! PSYCHOPATH!!1
mod6: haha
trinque: is this a matter of backing out of using a big open source item?
trinque: I know that pain, difficult process
mircea_popescu: yep.
mircea_popescu: basically ended up being rewriting everything.
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, looks like it'll take one mentally competent woman about one year. the "open source" crapolade was built OVER A DECADE. and it's ~useless, within three zeros.
asciilifeform: an ada '3d engine' would be quite a thing, incidentally
mircea_popescu: 10x the time, easily 100x the "effort" (although it is no more meaningful to compare the work of republican with the braying of subhuman opensources than it is to compare cpus and breast implants) and so forth.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is server side.
asciilifeform: aah
asciilifeform: even moar so, then
asciilifeform: ( the language-level support for sane concurrency it more or less perfect for subj )
asciilifeform: it's what originally pulled me into looking at it.
phf: presumably to make it sane will have to write own blitter to surface, etc.
phf: concurrency will only get into picture once you have independent rendered, networking and game state logic all working
asciilifeform: btw the graphics , as seen by asciilifeform's naked eye, suggest that a cpu-only renderer ( 0 magic iron ) could, in theory, run eulora
asciilifeform: ( msdos port!111 )
mircea_popescu: absolutely never licensing any of this. people wish to contribute, they get to participate, not to "just like bitcoin with a little bit of censorship" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: imagine, eulora played for paypal ? fuck that shit with a hot iron poker, there's NO WAY shitworld claws back to relevancy.
phf: asciilifeform: sure, considering that graphics are intentionally seem to be kept might&magic like can easily render the whole thing in software
asciilifeform: phf: i know very little re eulora design process, but did assume that mircea_popescu et al deliberately put in a polygon count limit, and that the logic was approx like this.
asciilifeform: ( to one day be rid of closed turd gpu )
mircea_popescu: phf something like that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's part of what the publisher will accept as art assets, see ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: and no, never relinquishing political control, ever, no fucking way. colonial empire all the way, force the locals to either absorb themselves into whiteness or spawn chattel indefinitely.
phf: i think crystal space already supports limited software rendering, but figuring out how to properly enable it seems to be not for the faint of heart
mircea_popescu: 0 tolerance for multiculti bs.
mircea_popescu: phf the topic of making clients for teh eulora is very much open, my model is that there's a bunch of 3rd party clients, from text to whatever gpu-enabled thing.
mircea_popescu: heck, danielpbarron is moving towards an actuall dvd distro of the whole thing.
asciilifeform: phf: i'd doubt that the existing open sores turd would do the job ( esp how 'render without gpu' is a more or less entirely untested component, 'everyone has gpu!111' etc )
mircea_popescu: but, which is how this spitoon unravelled, in order to properly expose this for people to work on gotta have sane protocol, for which you need sane data model or else do conversion, and well...
phf: i kind of want to take a stab at doing a common lisp text only client, but i think i lost my password again, and i'm too embarrassed to ask for another recovery........
mircea_popescu: why ?
mircea_popescu: it dun cost me nuttin
mircea_popescu: phf http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cnpEH/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: just as long as you dun lose you know, your actual key.
mircea_popescu: (believe it or not, ~95% of pw recovery attempts fail because the player lost his password in the sense of, ALL SOFTWARE ON THE MACHINE, data included.)
phf: a fairly inexpensive way to learn some of the tmsr lessons
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: of course, same 95% of players disappears back into the agar.
mircea_popescu: ie, they hadn't learned the lessons before, either, and not by accident.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669175 << excuse you, it was a "suburban", aka "glorified and overpowered van filled with bench seats"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 17:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668953 << dude's in fucking love, clearly. yo benjie : that's how plants look irl, not girl's fault you grew up in the boot of a 2 seater roadster!
mircea_popescu: i imagine somewhere deep down they'll expect i'll come to believe this is my fault, or something. weirdo socialist shifthink.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i stand excused.
ben_vulpes: my blog is story of ignorant american bumpkin discovering slowly painfully each and every lie he's been told by the imperial press corps
ben_vulpes: "holy shit look at what happens to tomato plants when grown by humans" "yes, and?" "..."
mircea_popescu: i have a lot of sympathy. because my fucking artichokes grew like 2.5 m tall.
mircea_popescu: and it was traumatic.
mircea_popescu: "bitch is taller than me nao what."
mircea_popescu: then winter fucking came, and there they sat under the snow, green and preppy as everything. and i was googling for home version flamethrowers, for you know, insurance just in case like.
phf: ben_vulpes: could you possibly add timestamp (hh:mm:ss, say) to your div.line's. maybe as data-ts="..." or perhaps as a div.nick title?
mircea_popescu: "honey, if one night you see the artichoke bush sneaking into the bedroom, push this lever here and then hold the spigot that way and crank this."
ben_vulpes: phf: pretty sure mimi's on utc
ben_vulpes: phf: certainly, rush job?
phf: no, whenever
ben_vulpes: aye aye
mircea_popescu: diana_coman s/oh-so-funny comments/ever sadder epitaphs/ ?
phf: i think it would be handy if loggers supported web export in kako format over some alternative url. so you could for example say http://bvulpes/log?format=kako&date=2016-01-01 and that'll give you id;ts;nick;message plain text. think i'll write a proposal for it
mircea_popescu: seems a perfectly sane format.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that's actually very fitting indeed; will change, thank you!
mircea_popescu: my pleasure!
mircea_popescu: and i mean that, literally.
ben_vulpes: mod6: i'll add a quotulator, it's been on my backburner for a while
phf: right now i have a handful of hacky python scripts that simply proxy /mkj/yyyymmdd and /bvulpes/yyyymmdd. they return dates in kako format, but parse html using pyquery.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see ? usage breeds interest & improvement ?
diana_coman: <mod6> diana_coman is a warrior; nice post <- out of the saddest necessity really; thanks!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669131 << it's a thorny bush, but i'm with alf : as long as the TEXT reads historically accurate, where the text links can be up to your implementation. person doesn't like where you direct the links, the historicval original is one copy/paste op away.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 16:17 phf: asciilifeform: so right now, if you click in the little up arrow, it'll take you to the location in btcbase. i think i might've disabled link substitution at some point on account of it being a subtle log manipulation
mircea_popescu: this wouldn't be the same redirecting links in a html, where _anchor_ used to go to url1 but now it'd (silently, unless you kept actual html copies) goes to url2. but in irc format there's no way to link other than by textually dumping a link, so...
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/comey-sexually-intimidated-by-trump/ << Qntra - Comey Sexually Intimidated By Trump
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669139 << i thought the prediction was to be for the exact opposite occuring.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 16:53 asciilifeform: trinque: kako now runs a public pissoire , voice-for-all, complete with gimmebots, ethertards, etc., many joys
mircea_popescu: this is lulzily reminiscent of the weabo thing sina dug up yest. it's easy enough, from the tard perspective, to go "hey, i live in canada, mp lives in romania, basically the same thing yes ?" but then a few years go by, during which mp has lived in argentina and costa rica, and well... suddenly it's not nearly all that similar anymore.
mircea_popescu: the curse of the 3yo brain, to be unable to distinguish between car and cardboard cutout depicting car.
BingoBoingo: From Twodog land to NoDawg land
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo considering the man is what, 777 yo, that title is particularly lulzy
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No seriously. NYT and LAT had girlie pantsuit columnist write that Comey is exactly what they imagine being sexually harassed by the boss is like
BingoBoingo: *columnists
mircea_popescu: why they spend so much time trying to imagine that on the company dime is nobody's line of inquiry, i expect.
mircea_popescu: "fake news faux editorialists jailed today for sexual fetishism involving their bosses."
BingoBoingo: You mean fetishually harassing their bosses
mircea_popescu: somehow 50yo redneck taking girlie to his house in the woods and showing her a ropey good time for a coupla weeks is like a fucking emergency ; but 20something sexually useless wreck daydreaming about her boss doesn't even warrant a slap on the wrist ?
mircea_popescu: send them to pick garbage on highway side for a coupla weeks for their impure thoughts, i say
mircea_popescu: tis how the brits ran their empire, back when they had an empire to run.
mircea_popescu: and no, the two aren't fucking coincidental.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: i'll add a quotulator, it's been on my backburner for a while << ok cool! no hurry
BingoBoingo: https://imgoat.com/uploads/ff1de77400/23144.png
mircea_popescu: the achievement of standing up
shinohai: kek
mircea_popescu: absolutely depicting the obese as human, showing supposed "affection" etcetera should be a felony.
mircea_popescu: the brits aim to send people to jail for watching "cartoon porn", yet nobody has yet figured out pretendin the overfat are human is an insult to suines everywhere.
phf: ah, some retro BingoBoingo content
mod6: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-6-12#2a454b3a-a8e2-4dd5-ac40-06d93d11c092 << haha
mod6: "Fat is healthy." << gtfo
mircea_popescu: no, they can stand see
mircea_popescu: tjhat's th fucking criteria now
mod6: lol. it was one piggybacking on another!!1
mod6: :D
mod6: 717 lbs. "I'm healthy, lemme eat 15" pizza to destroy the patriarchy!"
mod6: Alas, our modern times.
mod6: like wat da faq
mircea_popescu: myea
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tjEvW/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mod6: i like how searching the logs for a word like 'stochastic' can lead me down 2012 memory lane
mircea_popescu: i get lost in that pot with some regularity too
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/AMUGo << in entirely unrelated, ultra-vintage lulz
asciilifeform: '...Everything that concerned him was international community, which he thought was in his pocket. Now it was in his pocket in the sense that he was in their pocket.'
asciilifeform: ^ 'altalena affair' resulted in the switcheroo where the upstanding folx ( irgun et al, who held the position 'rm -rf britain' , were replaced by the internationalkomyooniti obedient muppet circus who ended up 'recognized' by said komyooniti as 'israel'
asciilifeform: )
BingoBoingo: tyvm shinohai
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/ethereum-blocks-way-the-fuck-too-big-smart-contract-ddosing-own-initial-coin-offering-to-blame/ << Qntra - Ethereum Blocks Way The Fuck Too Big: "Smart" Contract DDoS'ing Own "Initial Coin Offering" To Blame
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ 'altalena affair' resulted in the switcheroo where the upstanding folx ( irgun et al, who held the position 'rm -rf britain' , were replaced by the internationalkomyooniti obedient muppet circus who ended up 'recognized' by said komyooniti as 'israel' << Aka. When da jooz jew'd the Jay-double-Oh-Oh-Zee
shinohai: np BingoBoingo ... some things are just too lulzy to keep me in hiatus.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: fuckin solid
shinohai: ty ben_vulpes o7
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2683.95, vol: 31370.11890057 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2643.0, vol: 13810.82291 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2599.0, vol: 47971.41729155 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2815.78353, vol: 22425.16260000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2640.986, vol: 10126.8639028 | Volume-weighted last average: 2667.08959118
mircea_popescu: how well would all this price shitting would work if only silbert & friends had the capacity to print bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: really now, lets give it to them, for the good OF THE COMMUNITY!!!