log☇︎
67 entries in 0.58s
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 15:37:48 asciilifeform: meanwhile asciilifeform attempts to teach a short vtronics lecture in diana_coman's school while diana_coman slept .
asciilifeform: meanwhile asciilifeform attempts to teach a short vtronics lecture in diana_coman's school while diana_coman slept .
asciilifeform: i.e. specifically what vtronics was designed to abolish
asciilifeform: i aint about to disagree with this formula ( it's 100% of the thrust of vtronics, say )
asciilifeform: ( they aint got vtronics, so nfi what if anyffing their sig ~means~ )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-19#1873666 << much of what seems to n00bs as 'unnatural acrobatics' in vtronics is in fact the actual and inevitable cost of writing proggies ~honestly~ -- i.e. without pretending, as the heathens do, that 'i only changed this one little thing, whatddayamean it's a new program now' ☝︎
bvt: but i would agree that one's understanding of vtronics is determined by ones toposorter implementation.
deedbot: asciilifeform rated bvt 1 at 2018/10/10 21:20:12 << n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu barfed at my 'let's forbid semantically meaningful newlines in vtronics' item, earlier.
asciilifeform: that's where we differ, i think. my whole notion in inventing vtronics was to preserve all history that can be practically preserved.
deedbot: asciilifeform rated bvt 1 << n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
asciilifeform: !!rate bvt 1 n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
asciilifeform: maintaining hard-continuity of history is nearly whole point, as i see it , of vtronics.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: right, pretty much all of the early vtronics work happened on tbf ml
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform plowed through the phf-vtronics thread when came back from voyage, and then second time when diana_coman requested keccak regrind, and both times failed to converge to correct answ re 'is there complete keccak vtron' )
asciilifeform: entirely. this is one of the 9000 ways in which vtronics wins.
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 16 hours and 3 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/zfp_2_noc.vpatch is an invalid vpatch, it breaks fundamental rule of vtronics , by referencing files not given in the genesis !
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/zfp_2_noc.vpatch is an invalid vpatch, it breaks fundamental rule of vtronics , by referencing files not given in the genesis !
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836681 << was rereading this vintage thread; funnily enough , early pre-vtronics discussion ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835675 << what part of the 'rms problem' does vtronics per se not cure ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 13:35 asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics . ☟︎
asciilifeform: mod6: can you think of a fraudulent scenario that isn't handled by simple vtronics and actually requires seekrit coad ?
asciilifeform: Mocky: imho the best intro text re vtronics is still ben_vulpes's , http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
asciilifeform: Mocky: as you are prolly already beginning to understand from the l0gz, vtronics grew from trb work, which demanded 'measure not 7, but 7777 times, before cutting once', in the style of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#922644 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797814 << this'd be the one extra item vtronics might eventually get, if this ever comes to exist in a proper sense. ☝︎
mod6: no! not even using vtronics at all. just a good ole fashion by hand patch application.
asciilifeform: problem is that most meaningful transforms are ~not~ attainable automatically, and the otherwise spiffy vtronics create unwarranted expectation of automatism
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of trinque from 2 to 4 << texas lisper; author and operator of deedbot ; experimental vtronics work
asciilifeform: !!rate trinque 4 texas lisper; author and operator of deedbot ; experimental vtronics work
esthlos: hello all, vtronics question
asciilifeform: which is troo . and 'not bug, but feature' and in fact plays poorly with vtronics
asciilifeform: that was a case when 'put in a comment to align vtronics and semantics' would have been The Right Thing
a111: Logged on 2017-12-26 21:42 ben_vulpes: phf: this exposes another problem: in ideal vtronics it is an illegal operation to press to multiple leaves at the same tree level, which is the only way to have a codebase against which to create a makefiles-type patch that ties multiple patches together
ben_vulpes: phf: this exposes another problem: in ideal vtronics it is an illegal operation to press to multiple leaves at the same tree level, which is the only way to have a codebase against which to create a makefiles-type patch that ties multiple patches together ☟︎
asciilifeform: the tragicomic part is that i picked plain old diff for vtronics 'so that patches will be readable'
asciilifeform: ffa series is as much a course in vtronics, as in arithmetics.
asciilifeform: the other notion is that each shot oughta be a vpatch from previous . so also vtronics practice.
phf: well, that's fine by me, i think what happened is some other conversation got crossed over into what i was thinking. alf said you gotta publish, to which i responded with a very non committal "i'll think about it". but there were parts that i was thinking of publishing. specifically vpatch parser and presser both of which don't really on external tools, but accomplish the whole thing in memory. might be useful for further vtronics
asciilifeform: systems are to be fixed - i.e. brought into conformance with vtronics -- or discarded.
mod6: but having it set up as i just did in the above paste is unpressable in current vtronics.
phf: i actually need to fix btcbase to make sure file names state consistent with vtronics model..
asciilifeform: i assumed (apparently wrongly) that mircea_popescu remembered basic vtronics .
asciilifeform: trinque: trb already exists in multiple branches, such is the nature of vtronics.
davout: mostly as an exercise in vtronics
asciilifeform: trinque: mircea_popescu will probably barf if the 2 genesisen get displayed on same screen. it isn't an eggog in vtronics, but is in his head.
asciilifeform: if this weren't easily detectable, vtronics would be entirely impossible
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 02:19 mircea_popescu: mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: automated vtronics is like having cat "read" balzac for you.
mircea_popescu: there;s no intention involved in or supported by vtronics
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 21:35 mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn't have written the fucking thing int he first place.
mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn't have written the fucking thing int he first place. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and which is why traditionalist societies guilty pleasure is genealogy, as in heraldics or vtronics ; whereas modernist societies guilty pleasure is "self improvement" as in miracle diets and college degrees. (no, the two aren't different, the notion that you will BECOME at the college is entirely like the notion that you'll go to heaven through not cursing.)
asciilifeform: a signed rating is a correct use of the robot. in fact vtronics consists entirely of this type of thing
asciilifeform: likewise 'my inner circle knows what the true J' is' is not solving same problem as 'everyone who knew Kpublic can reliably learn true J' ' which in the case of serious 'for the ages' signatures, e.g., vtronics, you actually ~do~ want
asciilifeform: rule #1 of vtronics: no cyclez!1111111
asciilifeform: other ingredients include vtronics (every line has a sworn and cryptoauthenticated author),
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other. << i think so too. but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i keep getting the feeling that we only half-solved vtronics
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear> most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this << the problem here is that the only reason why is not obvious is because of issues in the reader's head, and a general treatise to address all possible personal issues can not really be made.
ascii_rear: most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it's their try at... vtronics
ascii_butugychag points out that he has been thinking about vtronics for a VERY long time.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:27:00; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree ☝︎☟︎