log
asciilifeform l0lz that folks are using 'phuctor' as a key viewer
Adlai: don't worry, i'm just phucting with you
asciilifeform: i guess there's something pleasurable in seeing the moduli
asciilifeform: i know i like to.
Adlai: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=Adlai << /nick accidentally got squatted by ashley while i was in the army. never heard of waksman though.
assbot: Search results for 'adlai'
Adlai: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=Adlai << so, while the current contributors' reasons for not using git[hub] are understandable, i'll leave this up and perhaps update it at my leisure, in case it'll be useful to anybody inhabiting a separate region on the paranoia/lazyness continuum
assbot: Search results for 'adlai'
Adlai: pastefail: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919932 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 16:38:23; asciilifeform: Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/cfpbs-proposed-rules-governing-prepaid-cards-include-virtual-currency/
assbot: CFPB's Proposed Rules Governing Prepaid Cards Include "Virtual Currency" | Qntra.net
asciilifeform: Adlai: on the contrary, several people (even you?) are using 'git'
asciilifeform: it even, iirc, comes with a gpg signing gizmo
Adlai: people other than me have used it?
asciilifeform: but it is only a tool that some people prefer to use. a 'git' or other similar gizmo will not be the authoritative representation of bitcoind.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00042506 = 12.9643 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: for reasons described earlier.
Adlai: (specifically for this repo)
asciilifeform: aha i think ben_vulpes has one of his own
Adlai: i only set up the repo. doing so required going through all the manual steps (and i did verify gpg signatures with identities fetched from public keyservers)
asciilifeform: try to understand why a git repo cannot be the canonical representation.
Adlai: of course i understand, although i still think darcs could actually work for this
asciilifeform: (the canonical representation can be taken and stuffed into a git repo, or darcs, or cvs, whatever, for your personal pleasure)
Adlai: (after reading more about its workings)
asciilifeform: but when it's time to cough your changes back up and have them up for public study, they have to be physically minimal
Adlai: let's put it this way: the act of fetching signed patches with darcs conducts *exactly* the manual verification workflow which you currently do
asciilifeform: and per the current state of the art, that means unix diff outputs.
undata: Adlai: this was my argument.
Adlai: !s undata darcs
assbot: 0 results for 'undata darcs' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=undata+darcs
undata: git and others are a damned hash database
Adlai: ... no it wasn't
Adlai: yes, and they're not looking for a hash database
undata: Adlai: it turns out there are a few of those
asciilifeform: Adlai: in what way is 'darcs' output more useful than unix patch?
Adlai: they're looking for verified patch lists
asciilifeform: Adlai: does it, for example, avoid being fooled by line number counts?
Adlai: asciilifeform: you can add metadata such as patch dependency which is not evident just from the patch's raw contents
undata: Adlai: as you were then; git solves precisely this problem or would not work.
Adlai: git commits to a specific state of code. what if it becomes evident that a specific developer was working to introduce bugs, and you only want to excise his patches? that has unbounded painfulness in git, but bounded painfulness in darcs.
asciilifeform: incidentally, the problem of 'patcher than is never fooled by deletions and line count shifts' is not solvable in the general case.
Adlai: same bounds hold, or don't, for "his patches, and all those dependent upon them"
asciilifeform: (if you have a solution, geneticists would love to hear about it. 'sequence alignment' is ruinously expensive, in computational terms.)
Adlai: which is why darcs lets you add manual metadata for dependency constraints
Adlai: a "conflict" would require a separate patch, which should be signed by the resolver
asciilifeform: Adlai: we have the metadata. the integer in the patch fileames.
asciilifeform: *filename
asciilifeform: try to understand the nature of this 'nuke sub' and the pitfalls of tying one's fortune to 'darcs' or a similarly 'intelligent' instrument.
undata: asciilifeform: the process of producing a git commit is entirely dumb
Adlai: darcs isn't that intelligent. the input data it gets from a repository is a partially ordered list of patches, possibly signed. this is slightly more general than an ordered list of patches, but just as secure and interactive/manual
undata: and your nuke sub is going to get harder and harder to work on as the number of patches grows
asciilifeform: undata: i want it to get harder.
asciilifeform: undata, Adlai: are you familiar with 'risk homeostasis' ?
Adlai: !s risk homeostasis
assbot: 1 results for 'risk homeostasis' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=risk+homeostasis
Adlai: apparently logs aren't either!
Adlai: at least, not to a great degree... but i get the idea
asciilifeform: incidentally, esr had a piece on it.
asciilifeform: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6271
assbot: Program Provability and the Rule of Technical Greed
undata: asciilifeform: the process you've demanded be manual is not nearly a hard enough hurdle to filter undesirables
asciilifeform: this business, where things have to keep 'growing' for no apparent reason at all, needs to go.
undata: it's just a pain in the ass
asciilifeform: the point here is not to filter undesirable -people-
asciilifeform: but -things-.
asciilifeform: as in, cruft.
asciilifeform: look at extant software and you will see what happens to engineering when moving parts stop having weight and cost.
asciilifeform: it gets cancer.
asciilifeform: and since it never quite succumbs to the cancer, the tumours become planetary-sized.
asciilifeform: dwarfing the actual healthy tissue.
asciilifeform: how much of what is on your computer right now, actually -does- something ?
undata: I'll argue that git is doing precisely what you're doing by hand.
Adlai: i'm going to stop talking before i sound like a broken record, but this topic is likely to come up again once i've got something more substantial to say in defense of some tool for easing (ie, partially automating, up to the point of confirming signature verification) this process... no guarantee on how soon that could be, or which tool.
Adlai: darcs seems the likeliest candidate right now, though
undata: you're not removing complexity; you're just making the same process slower
asciilifeform: undata: well, to the extent that any version control system can be cudgelled into coughing up output compatible with 'patch' - then yes.
asciilifeform: but it is that output, and only that, which i am willing to sign.
undata: asciilifeform: there is not one single canonical timeline in any project
asciilifeform: others can disagree, and sign the empire state building.
asciilifeform: let's put it another way. i will not sign anything that i cannot read.
asciilifeform: it's bad enough that we are dealing with a turd that is quite impossible to fully understand in the original.
asciilifeform: but i will only sign deltas which consist of information which i can fully view.
undata: to me you're saying damn the microscope or we'll never understand this cell
asciilifeform: undata: you are perfectly welcome to use a vcs of whatever flavour appeals to you
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, the one fellow who is really still working on this gizmo, is
undata: I'd like to slash out the db bits and try something else, but I'm not going to bother with trying to manually merge other people's patches as they come along in process
undata: that is precisely the scenario git helps
mod6: im not using one
asciilifeform isn't either
asciilifeform: undata: if you want to understand the whole point of the fork, try to understand what you lose when you choose a vcs as a canonical representation.
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, create own fork, with own point...
asciilifeform: but don't be surprised if it is treated in the same way as the phoundation's original - at the very best, a place to steal bug fixes from.
asciilifeform: undata: do you know how soviet nukes and spacecraft were assembled?
Adlai: wouldn't a better forking point be before any significant "crowd" involvement? cf https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/graphs/contributors?from=2010-07-11&to=2011-04-27&type=c
assbot: Contributors to bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
asciilifeform: there was a three-man system
asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
asciilifeform: all three - answer with their lives.
asciilifeform: this is how safety-critical systems work.
asciilifeform: and whiners who complain that this is arduous, unreasonable, etc. - are shown where the door is.
Adlai is not sufficiently familiar with each line of code itself to tell which of those contributions, or ones in the ensuing spikes, are trivially trustable, and which aren't
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49173 @ 0.00042192 = 20.7471 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: it is absurd to think that software cannot help enforce that rigor
undata: or why did we make it at all?
undata: any software
asciilifeform: software is helping to the extent it is reasonable. for instance, i am trusting my text editor to display the actual source and not some diddled version.
undata: asciilifeform: it's more likely that your text editor diddled than git did
undata: your text editor isn't checking against known hashes
asciilifeform: idea is not 'which was diddled' but which one encourages reliance on greater and greater machine 'intelligence'
Adlai: undata: this is more along the lines of "confirm by human approval that an unforseen software/bureaucracy/insanity 'bug' isn't afoot"
asciilifeform: it is very easy to test if my text editor is lying.
asciilifeform: (less easy to test if it is -capable- of lying, but that's another matter)
asciilifeform: but the argument here is not about sabotaged ken-thompson-style tools. but about tools that foster intellectual atrophy.
asciilifeform: and a dependence on the machine to resolve questions which ought to be resolved by the mind, and thus kept 'light weight' enough to be easily resolved by the mind.
undata: being able to apply 700 patches by hand, having verified signatures on each one, is no measure of intelligence
asciilifeform: no.
undata: it confirms you're a ploddingly simple mechanical device
asciilifeform: it's a chore, yes
asciilifeform: can't really argue that it's a great joy.
asciilifeform: and whatever aspects of it can be automated - should be
Adlai: according to github, v0.5.3 has 36 committers with github accounts (for example, doesn't include satoshi). compare this with starting on Apr 1, 2011: 8
asciilifeform: but i will not be signing any patch that i can't apply with my mind, in my mental model of the code.
undata: Adlai: there is a mountain of bugfixing to re-apply
asciilifeform: and requires some complicated pattern-matcher to apply
undata: asciilifeform: at some point wont you have to delegate that?
undata: torvalds addresses this regarding the kernel and git
undata: he uses WoT to manage what makes it into the kernel
asciilifeform: lol re: linux kernel as an example to follow
Adlai: of course, but the "manual trust verification" approach taken further would suggest only applying critical bugfixes, as patches, signed by the developer who wrote them (preferably with a signature published at the time of the fix, alternatively obtaining a signature in the present day... or manually verifying the patch's trustworthyness, and signing yourself)
undata: Adlai: so I sign the hash of the commit with my gpg key
asciilifeform: Adlai: there are two separate questions here, and we are only dealing with one
asciilifeform: that being - attribution.
asciilifeform: the most important thing is that each and every change, however slight, is attributable.
asciilifeform: now, and 100 years from now.
asciilifeform: 'trustworthiness' can only be born from this.
asciilifeform: right now it is a null word.
Adlai: and how does what I just said miss that?
undata: asciilifeform: so are you going to trace that line of code by hand through 1500 patches?
asciilifeform: well, you referred to 'trustworthiness' which is a thing we have not yet invented.
undata: and is that more reliable than git blame?
undata: now I'm supposed to trust your infallible eye
asciilifeform: undata: picture the 0.5.3 turd as a piece of martian technology.
asciilifeform: let's pretend that it just happened to fall upon the earth.
Adlai: s/trust/origin/, s/manually verifying/claiming responsibility for/
undata: ha, yes.
asciilifeform: we have no idea, let's say, what parts are useful, and which ones are boobytraps designed to kill unwary earthling dissector.
asciilifeform: but we do know that among us are hostile martians, who would like us to come to harm.
asciilifeform: we want to know, even if it is fifty years too late, who they were.
asciilifeform: and the only way to learn it, is by their works.
undata: I might not try and use the thing at all.
asciilifeform: that's an option.
undata: I'd observe it then try a clean re-implementation
asciilifeform: i hear it's popular.
asciilifeform: aha but how to observe?
asciilifeform: and then how to convince others you are not a martian ?
asciilifeform: two separate problems.
asciilifeform: conformal corp.'s reimplementation exists, for instance.
asciilifeform: and 2 or 3 others.
asciilifeform: why aren't we using them?
Adlai: well, you can't convince another person you're not a martian. hell, i don't think i could convince myself that i'm not unwittingly carrying out martian bidding.
asciilifeform: (well - at least, i'm not)
ben_vulpes: inertia
ben_vulpes: fear
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no.
asciilifeform: i won't use, because i was not privvy to the process whereby it was born.
asciilifeform: nor have any reason to place trust in the creators
Adlai: but you can ease recovery from covert evil martian sabotage
asciilifeform: what recovery can there be, when your $maxint coins walk away?
asciilifeform: gotta understand why bitcoind < 0.6 is special.
ben_vulpes: why so much more confident in the satoshi turd than the conformal blackbox?
asciilifeform: because it is the only one which existed upon the earth before bitcoin was valuable!
asciilifeform: i thought this was elementarily obvious.
undata: but this can be taken to the absurd
ben_vulpes: best argument i've heard.
undata: satoshi = nsa
undata: it has always been broken
asciilifeform: undata: this comes up here at least once a month, and i regret to say that it is mostly my own fault.
Adlai: surely these purely hypothetical martians already had their eyes on it before "bitcoin was valuable"
undata: asciilifeform: I don't believe or disbelieve it
undata: one can always suppose a reason why tonight's the night they come to get him
asciilifeform: Adlai: there are at least six different hypotheses for why dr. evil has not yet pulled the trigger.
asciilifeform: one of them is that there was no dr. evil
asciilifeform: but there are at least five others.
asciilifeform: i think each of the regulars here has his favourite.
Adlai: at least one tla took an active interest back in 2011...
Adlai: and please elaborate on the hypotheses
Adlai: (or just point out log links/searches)
TheNewDeal: second that statement
TheNewDeal: the only one I can think of is, wait until it gets 10, or 100 times bigger
asciilifeform: !s nsa bitcoin
assbot: 27 results for 'nsa bitcoin' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nsa+bitcoin
undata: why would they create it? impending fiat disaster?
TheNewDeal: not interested about the nsa connection now, but the "why hasn't he pulled the plug?" question
undata: TheNewDeal: supposing "he" is usgov; why wouldn't they just sit back and let it take over, and hold their 1/21 or more of it?
undata: and continue to be the thing they've been
Adlai: TheNewDeal: e no antecedent, in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014922735
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
TheNewDeal: that's obvious to me why it doesnt matter if he is nsa
undata: I don't see a reason to pull any plugs
asciilifeform: undata: are you familiar with a figure called anatoly golitsyn?
joecool: !isitdup wiki.bitcoin-assets.com
undata: asciilifeform: I am not
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2013#421984 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-12-2013 00:57:19; asciilifeform: anyone knows the story of a man called Anatoliy Golitsyn?
Adlai: fixfail: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922735 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:43:25; TheNewDeal: second that statement
joecool: kakobrekla: wiki is down?
undata: here's a doubling down of it: NSA intends to take over the hashing power of the network and implement coin validation
undata: ushering in a dark age
undata: haha
joecool: yep, everything on bitcoin-assets.com down for me
undata: asciilifeform: yes that
Adlai: ;;isup search.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: search.bitcoin-assets.com is up
undata: bitcoin could easily be one of the most dystopian inventions ever
undata: depending on who has the hashing power and what they intend
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/LEKE04PY << for those who can't reach the log
assbot: 00:57:19asciilifeform:anyone knows the story of a man called Anatoliy Golitsyn? - Pastebin.com
undata: asciilifeform: this brings me back to my comments about the pile of weapons
Adlai likes how the pastebin gets dated by the newsfart mention
joecool: !isup log.bitcoin-assets.com
Adlai: joecool: try ;;
joecool: Adlai: search works here
joecool: ;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: log.bitcoin-assets.com is up
undata: the pentagon is the actual US govt
asciilifeform: !s meta-nsa
assbot: 30 results for 'meta-nsa' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=meta-nsa
undata: this civilian bureaucracy is a skirt
asciilifeform: ^ required reading for 'shadow government' aficionados
joecool: Adlai: used to ! on the otc channel, bad habit
asciilifeform: !s lizard-hitler
assbot: 5 results for 'lizard-hitler' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=lizard-hitler
Adlai: the lizard-hitler popular with my conspiracy friends has dabbled in history from a much earlier age
asciilifeform: e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2013#416393 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-12-2013 00:40:16; asciilifeform: i can't help but imagine some fellow at Meta-NSA, with a pill against ECDSA hidden under a flower pot in his office, laughing his arse off at these morons.
Adlai: he/they are responsible for crossing mammal and reptilian "genes" (phenotypes? genotypes? details, damnit! details!)
Adlai: Homo sapiens [sapiens] being essentially some form of automaton / robot slave / controlled experiment, conducted by these lizard-nazis
asciilifeform: for those who slept,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#922393 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 14-11-2014 22:24:42; asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.)
Adlai: "slept"? more like "don't speak http"
Adlai: which is quite an illiteracy, these days
assbot: Last 12 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3A8FTX8.txt )
Adlai: !b 12
Adlai: ignorance is bliss, eh assbot?
Adlai: assbot is immune to suicidal depression, because it doesn't even know it exists
nubbins`: ;;seen asciilifeform
gribble: asciilifeform was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 25 seconds ago: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#922393
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66300 @ 0.0004115 = 27.2825 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i'm right here.
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2014#610903 << does security-over-obscurity preclude discussing further your uses of obsd?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2014 09:10:25; mircea_popescu: tbh im kinda surprised teh tradepress isn't howling all about "in january, 'Bitcoin Baron Keeps a Secretive Open Source OS Alive' ; in april, nsa's crown jool is thrown in the dirt of the public space."
nubbins`: hi
asciilifeform: at least for a few min.
nubbins`: - if the project is deemed infeasible, 0.5 BTC (less tx fees) will be returned to a Bitcoin address specified by asciilifeform, no later than 2014-11-15.
asciilifeform: ah
nubbins`: loose ends and the tying up thereof!
asciilifeform: send it where it came from.
nubbins`: k
Adlai is curious what is considered a secure stack for financial sites, eg mpex
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36427 @ 0.00041773 = 15.2167 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i still want to print this if/when the time comes that the chicken is whittled down to edible meat and bone
asciilifeform: nubbins`: and i shall buy it.
Adlai: nubbins`: why aren't you printing it?
asciilifeform: Adlai: see jurov's chronicle: http://explo.yt/post/2014/10/29/some-dangerous-idea
assbot: A dangerous idea - serialized delusions
asciilifeform: (re: why not printed)
nubbins`: tl;dr you don't bronze turds
asciilifeform: except! in the case of the 1990s alt.tasteless 'golden turd award.'
asciilifeform: where - they did.
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: https://blockchain.info/tx/233caa80975f203b65927c705e5fa2876354ab6ddb8c4f684ca76ebeab44ab71
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 233caa80975f203b65927c705e5fa2876354ab6ddb8c4f684ca76ebeab44ab71
asciilifeform: Adlai: what is considered a secure stack for financial << this is like asking, 'what is considered a good wife'
Adlai: and indeed, isn't it acceptable, in some circles at least, to look at family photos?
asciilifeform: 'A Roman divorced from his wife, being highly blamed by his friends, who demanded, "Was she not chaste? Was she not fair? Was she not fruitful?" holding out his shoe, asked them whether it was not new and well made. "Yet," added he, "none of you can tell where it pinches me."'
asciilifeform: (plutarch, iirc)
joecool: hm reading about the assets project to roll back to 0.5.3, i see "rip out bdb" ? drop wallet support so it only functions as node?
asciilifeform: joecool: rolling back was just step 1 in recipe.
Adlai: this roman doesn't seem to care much for his friends' feet. perhaps the shoe's pinch points would bother them too, if they were to walk long enough in the same shoes?
nubbins`: notary http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5
nubbins`: what is it again
nubbins`: !s notary
assbot: 26 results for 'notary' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=notary
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5
notary: nubbins`: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
ben_vulpes: joecool: what's a wallet?
joecool: ben_vulpes: wallet.db support
ben_vulpes: is management of a single address not enough for you?
nubbins`: :D
asciilifeform: joecool: i don't believe that the current participants in turdatron really agree on what the ultimate end product should be (e.g., something like what conformal has, or a hardware implementation - what i want, etc.) but we do agree that a reference implementation is necessary before it even makes sense to ask the question.
asciilifeform: at the moment - we don't have a reference.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: thank you
nubbins`: np, may our day in the sun come
nubbins`: !up dooglus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7723 @ 0.00042926 = 3.3152 BTC [+]
nubbins`: incidentally, you'll get a chance to check out pictures of my large-format binding work later this month
joecool: asciilifeform: i see, what exactly has been happening? were people expecting gavin to crap out a reference eventually or just keep adding BIP's and pile on the crap?
nubbins`: i think "people" were expecting what people always have/will
nubbins`: everything, now, goddammit
joecool: nubbins`: someone else will get around to it
nubbins`: saying shit like "we"
nubbins`: "we need"
ben_vulpes: "the people" want everything they're told they want and to pay for nothing.
ben_vulpes: kinda why the open source ownership of satoshi's codebase failed so dramatically.
nubbins`: dat lack of bare-bones implementation, etc
ben_vulpes: the preference of "the community" for something that sorta-works across a broad spectrum of use cases
ben_vulpes: (albeit poorly at any of them individually)
joecool: so there's a todo, is there a repo you guys are using or a a mailing list for patches?
ben_vulpes: ml for patches
ben_vulpes: lol don't really know if it even works yet
undata: joecool: repo?! scoff!
thestringpuller: "There are no infinite loops in Ethereum because cycles cost currency and there is a finite amount of currency."
joecool: undata: cvs works for me
ben_vulpes: but if you're going to hack on it, start with the 0.5.3 dist at f9beb4d9.org, apply asciilifeform's "chicken" patch, and then yours on top of that.
joecool: ben_vulpes: thanks
thestringpuller: has anyone been able to load blockchain yet without exploding?
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: i'm still inching my blockchain to wedging
ben_vulpes: i'm working to crap out a "blockchain" that i can use to test this wedge
ben_vulpes: er
ben_vulpes: that i can use to track down potentially unwedging commits i should say.
joecool: ben_vulpes: will it reindex a pulled in blockchain or is it a necessity to pull in from start to finish?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.0004105 = 10.8372 BTC [-]
Adlai envisions a method of automatically sussing out the wedge point, but it requires the use of automation tools...
Adlai: specifically, http://man.cx/git-bisect
assbot: Manpage for git-bisect - man.cx manual pages
thestringpuller: joecool: after certain block it goes bananas
joecool: always same block?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12295 @ 0.0004105 = 5.0471 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: dunno haven't tried again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22828 @ 0.00041956 = 9.5777 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: Adlai: git bisect is actually the plan
ben_vulpes: my plan, more accurately.
ben_vulpes: joecool: "reindexing" is something that gavin's fork does to find all of the transactions relevant to addresses in your wallet in a given blockchain.
ben_vulpes: required for "importprivkey" etc
ben_vulpes: reverifying the blockchain is something else entirely.
joecool: so 0.5.3 and earlier did not do such things?
Adlai: the only plan right now is http://music.tatranmusic.com/
assbot: TATRAN
ben_vulpes: 0.5.3 and earlier have wallets, and all the concomittant braindamage like "reindex"
ben_vulpes: 0.5.3 is just a not unreasonable starting point for the project.
ben_vulpes: the story behind its selection is pretty amusing and may need to be revisited.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: how much of what is on your computer right now, actually -does- something ? << i guess about half.
mircea_popescu: and that is probably rare.
ben_vulpes: Adlai: additionally, i'm scripting the approach to the wedge point so that i can reproduce both the wedge and it not happening trivially with git bisect and other scripts
mircea_popescu: basically there'
mircea_popescu: s a conflict between enthusiasm and experience here.
mircea_popescu: enthusiasm is a sin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54873 @ 0.00042886 = 23.5328 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai: ben_vulpes: please share your bisection script
ben_vulpes: Adlai: just in skeleton form atm
ben_vulpes: i don't have a blockchain that wedges yet, nor have i reproduced the wedging point
Adlai is in no hurry
ben_vulpes: stuff i've written so far: http://pastebin.com/Zf4T9xF7
assbot: [Bash] #!/bin/bash TEST_DATA_DIR=aplace WEDGE_BLOCK=999999 clean_data_dir() { - Pastebin.com
ben_vulpes: this abomination is what's edging my copy of 0.5.3 up to the wedge point: http://pastebin.com/itWYUk9f
assbot: [Bash] #! /bin/bash # assumes that bitcoind is running blockmax=$1 should_continue - Pastebin.com
ben_vulpes: hardly groundbreaking. just tiptoeing around, because...enthusiasm kills the sapper.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes why the sleep ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67550 @ 0.0004334 = 29.2762 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: no desire to tax the poor leaky boat
mircea_popescu: should be interestinf to see if sleep actually resolves [part of] memory leakage
mircea_popescu: -> race condition.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: undata: this comes up here at least once a month, and i regret to say that it is mostly my own fault. <<< that it has a good response is mostly your fault. that it appears... it'd have appeared anyway.
mircea_popescu: now if i only had a link to where it was put to rest, to pass along to undata
ben_vulpes: currach is the word i was looking for
mircea_popescu: carrack ?
ben_vulpes: leather over wood prehistoric thinger?
ben_vulpes: coracle perhaps even
mircea_popescu: oh, no. this is the boat that mapped the world.
ben_vulpes: well its a crappy coracle dammit
ben_vulpes: bitcoin is the coin that changed the world but that doesn't mean the first try doesn't sink in heavy storms
mircea_popescu: http://www.stephenbiesty.co.uk/galleries_Atmospheric_Cutaways_Magellan'sCarrack.html
assbot: Stephen Biesty - Illustrator - Atmospheric Cutaways - Megallan's Carrack
asciilifeform: !s koraktor
assbot: 11 results for 'koraktor' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=koraktor
asciilifeform: or maybe not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2617 @ 0.0004249 = 1.112 BTC [-]
undata: mircea_popescu: regarding the NSA conspiracy, it's amusing, but doesn't seem likely that they'd undermine fiat intentionaly
undata: *lly
asciilifeform: does cia cocaine boat intend to undermine 'war on drugs' ?
asciilifeform: why does 'intend' even matter?
undata: asciilifeform: because unintentionally they're undermining their own existence by existing in the first place
nubbins`: anyone else find it mildly interesting that the last 5 chars in deed ID of jurov's signed treasurer's contract are "urovj"?
asciilifeform: me.
nubbins`: :D
nubbins`: i stared at it for like 10 minutes
asciilifeform: in other news, http://lenta.ru/news/2014/11/14/boeing
assbot: Lenta.ru: Силовые структуры: «Первый канал» показал спутниковые снимки атаки истребителем гражданского самолета
asciilifeform: i don't feel like translating.
asciilifeform: either 'google' or mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: tldr - ru satellite footage of death of mh-17
asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't watch, cannot swear to it
nubbins`: :0
asciilifeform: let out in response to australian 'je'accuse'
Adlai: all this horseradish for just a file conversion!? http://www.zamzar.com/tos.php
assbot: Zamzar - Free online file conversion
asciilifeform: lol, american/uk sat.
undata: asciilifeform: the strange thing to me: it doesn't matter at all what actually happened
Adlai: it's considerably shorter than the usual legalese, but just for starters, they could have separate terms for all the paid cruft, and leave the free service simple
undata: these events serve as fine propaganda tools no matter what for both sides
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00042727 = 14.7195 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: undata: except when usg can be caught with pants down.
asciilifeform: and anally tickled until bursts.
undata: asciilifeform: the usgov can tag its own pentagon with a missile in broad daylight
asciilifeform: and let's say you caught it on film.
asciilifeform: yes, 'can have problems,' film will be denied, etc.
asciilifeform: but still improvement.
undata: seems like the US and Russia are gradually building support for a very large war
mats_cd03: ha.
undata: meanwhile, related: they're starting to bang the Iraq war drum here, again
undata: only this time Syria must go as well
thestringpuller: https://github.com/cwinklevoss
asciilifeform: i can make one for hitler, what of it
thestringpuller: silly winklevii don't code
undata: if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, and whatever I wanted in eastern ukraine, at least
undata: and I'd most certainly try to help stir up whatever particular brand of shit the americans can't resist in the middle east
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5598 @ 0.00043346 = 2.4265 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> anyone else find it mildly interesting that the last 5 chars in deed ID of jurov's signed treasurer's contract are "urovj"? << it's in the logs.
mircea_popescu: <undata> if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, <<< obviously, you're not russia.
mircea_popescu: it needs more oil under a sheet of ice like kim kardashian needs more pubic hair.
PeterL: doesn't russia pretty much have as much oil as they want right now anyway? why do they need an excuse to grab more?
mircea_popescu: yup.
Adlai: any theories on reasons for the temporal hint of correlation between btcfiat and s.mpoe?
mircea_popescu: i was waiting for mike_c's words of wisdom
ben_vulpes: !t l s.mpoe
assbot: It says some pelt-wearin' trapper, some stinkin' bean-suckin' possum skinner, he's gonna collect that reward money.
ben_vulpes: !l s.mpoe
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
ben_vulpes: !l mpex s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00043346 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0004105 / 0.0004339 / 0.00046194 (2681850 shares, 1,163.66 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00053599 / 0.00065245 (7576604 shares, 4,061.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00067967 / 0.00081111 (23975563 shares, 16,295.66 BTC)
undata: mircea_popescu: still, controlling supply means having an influence on price
mike_c: i don't have any words of wisdom on mpoe.
mircea_popescu: undata you don't understand. siberia is a huge space, full of minerals they can't access because ice.
mike_c: feels cheap though.
ben_vulpes: wasn't the last major mpoe action a big rally during the big btc rally?
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 391.71, Best ask: 391.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 391.65, 24 hour volume: 20570.65837348, 24 hour low: 382.95, 24 hour high: 415.0, 24 hour vwap: 396.974151246
PeterL: and no way to transport out, no oil pipes
ben_vulpes: there is this sneaky theory that btc price is driven by mpoe holders
Adlai: well look who's been asleep now :P
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pretty much yea
Adlai: so, why would they need to dump mpoe to boost btc?
Adlai: doesn't mpoe operate "within" bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will bang on about that at will
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: many legs to the trade
ben_vulpes: could just be momentum and a long dry spell on mpex
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: except! in the case of the 1990s alt.tasteless 'golden turd award.' <<< anything good in there ?
ben_vulpes: i suspect mpoe acts as a stand in for an mpex market fund
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plenty
Adlai: note that i'm asking less "why did mpoe drop" and more "what evidence supports a correlation as the explanation for the temporal coincidence?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but we've no archive any more.
mircea_popescu: sux.
Adlai: for all i care, it could have risen. i hold none (yet)
ben_vulpes: Adlai: if anything, i'd have expected a surge as those who held mpoe bought more to balance their crypto holdings while accumulating more btc
ben_vulpes: mpoe is a goddamn mystery to me, Adlai.
mircea_popescu: Adlai afaik there was never in the entire history of bitcoin proposed some sort of credible / evidenced based interepretation of wtf it does.
ben_vulpes: for the first time ever my mpoe holdings are underwater
ben_vulpes: guess this means is hould sell, eh
mircea_popescu: Adlai: this roman doesn't seem to care much for his friends' feet. perhaps the shoe's pinch points would bother them too, if they were to walk long enough in the same shoes? <<< you know your crowd-* obsession is at some level based on the fundamentally evil notion that people are interchangeable.
mircea_popescu: people are not interchangeable.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: whole point of the anecdote.
mircea_popescu: there isn't some sort of "us" that could just as well be a standin for any of us.
Adlai: people aren't interchangeable, but shoes (and artifacts of their ilk) are increasingly produced and repaired in an interchangeable manner
mircea_popescu: no mythical man month, because no mythical man, not because no mythical month.
mircea_popescu: Adlai this, because industry is increasingly a piece of shit.
ben_vulpes: yet somehow programmers are supposed to be a dime a doze?
ben_vulpes: dozen?
Adlai: dime a doze sounds closer to reality
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the sort of "programmers" that "add features" should actually be charged to go to work.
mircea_popescu: like, gavin et all, should pay a daily fee to be allowed into the amusement park where they pretend like they matter
mircea_popescu: much like people pay to go to the theatre.
mircea_popescu: much like strippers and whores pay for their place of work, don't get paid by the landlord.
ben_vulpes: they are paying, the bill just isn't due yet.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
bagels7: being a whore is > working minimum wage your whole life
mircea_popescu: depends. spinoza managed just fine on minimum wage.
ben_vulpes: huh i think mine's wedged elsewhere
ben_vulpes: nope nm
mircea_popescu: chain reorg ?
mircea_popescu: "Despite being drowned in graceful donations and membership fees, they just keep piling new and new code without proper specification and proper testing, making mistakes or even forks inevitable and thus providing cover for abominable interests."
mircea_popescu: you know, jurov is actually a very talented historian.
mircea_popescu: i like his story best so far.
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923008 << a first step in some sort of appropriate direction could be http://organofcorti.blogspot.ru/2014/11/daily-and-weekly-bitcoin-transaction.html although that article doesn't go far enough for interesting results☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 02:49:52; mircea_popescu: Adlai afaik there was never in the entire history of bitcoin proposed some sort of credible / evidenced based interepretation of wtf it does.
assbot: Neighbourhood Pool Watch: Daily and weekly bitcoin transaction cycles
mircea_popescu: Adlai i meant, "wtf s.mpoe price does"
mircea_popescu: i thought that's what you were asking about.
Adlai: ah. well, both?
ben_vulpes: Adlai: bitcoin days destroyed is a good correlation to check too
Adlai: that, and block reward (fee amount, as opposed to fee count)
ben_vulpes: what's the thesis on block reward?
Adlai: not specifically relating to mpoe, more for possible next steps for analyzing bitcoin network activity metrics
Adlai: the article i linked looks just at confirmed transaction count, which is a narrow metric of all the stuff happening across the bitcoin network
Adlai looks at http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/ to place this activity in historical context
assbot: S.MPOE Analysis - Btc Alpha
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, qntra folks: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html
assbot: lenta
mircea_popescu: aha ?
asciilifeform: translation mine. very quick'n'dirty.
Adlai: while people might not treat people as interchangeable, dama fortuna does. "shit happens", especially in warzones... is the revelation in this article supposed to be surprising?
Adlai probably used the word "article" a little liberally there
asciilifeform: only to victims of usg cranial reformatting.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: qntra submission?
asciilifeform: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png
asciilifeform: ^ 'he ran into my knife! he ran into my knife - ten times.'
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: yes, nominated for consideration on qntra
asciilifeform: or however that goes.
asciilifeform has no idea
thestringpuller: cazalla ^^^
asciilifeform: and,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-11-2014#917653 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-11-2014 00:20:12; mircea_popescu: i don't see you churning out an article a week about how "evil nato" and "nice putin"
cazalla: thestringpuller, not up to date on logs so no idea what this conversation is about yet
asciilifeform: message to moscow - can i pleez get thirty coins of silver now.
asciilifeform: cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923049 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 03:06:23; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, qntra folks: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html
assbot: Last 18 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0FCDYXH.txt )
Adlai: !b 18
Adlai: that is some impressive lazyness, cazalla. i like it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16402 @ 0.00043481 = 7.1318 BTC [+]
cazalla: Adlai, i read the logs daily, just yet to finish today
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 1249 @ 0.0012 = 1.4988 BTC
thestringpuller: Adlai: cazalla has a media empire to run
Adlai is exponentially more likely to have read a log entry, according to the shortest path from the present moment back in time to the target entry, where b-a.com links are weighted roughly the same as simply reading backwards
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 0.5.3 and earlier have wallets, and all the concomittant braindamage... << the wallet code oughn't be snipped outright, but corralled. for later porting to msdos.
Adlai: now that's an interesting hypothesis to test: a bot lurks and tracks "shortest path" to each past message, then records when i link it as opposed to somebody else links it to me
asciilifeform: (well, not necessarily msdos. any sufficiently deterministic system.)
Adlai: for increasingly stoned values of "interesting"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2014#894581 << that thread.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-10-2014 03:56:49; asciilifeform: the correct solution is that (now unix-only) turdcoind will listen on a tty. serial tty.
decimation: asciilifeform: ideally in hardware, with physically separate ports
thestringpuller: can't ssh? no pts?
Adlai: https://imgur.com/cuVBhfh
decimation: thestringpuller: you want to ssh to your wallet?
thestringpuller: i ssh to my spending wallet
thestringpuller: but given buterin's waterfall I emptied it out
cazalla: asciilifeform, as much as i appreciate the translation (my primary school teacher died on mh17), it's a bit of a stretch for qntra to publish it as bitcoin news
Adlai: http://i.imgur.com/cuVBhfh << ie, "advertising costs, PR, and miscellaneous" outweighed "ipo fees" during these months
cazalla: i mean, i see the angle given governments but still
Adlai: *these last 15 months
cazalla: Adlai, i'm up to date on logs now btw
decimation: how do these 'northern route' theorists discount the satellite contacts from the engine control systems?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13737 @ 0.00042921 = 5.8961 BTC [-]
Adlai: or, in the king's english: MPOE needs to increase IPOs/¼
Adlai: or mpex
Adlai can never quite tell the two apart, sorta like body/blood and bread/wine
decimation: asciilifeform: re: our conversation about uav control systems: http://intercepts.defensenews.com/2014/10/why-air-force-drones-rely-on-horsehair-to-land/ << "That’s because the MQ-1/9 are controlled on Ku-Band, which has a two second delay back to the States ... Because of that, launch and recovery experts — trained specifically at Creech AFB for this part of the operation — are based much closer to the area of operations and
decimation: use C-band, which has no delay. "
cazalla: it is interesting they release the images just as the g20 starts here in australia
thestringpuller: adlai that image won't load
Adlai: https://i.imgur.com/cuVBhfh.png?0 "MPOE Net Expenses" snipped from http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/#cash_flow
thestringpuller: Adlai do you know about MPCD?
Adlai: (link works through torify curl, not sure why anything else should fail)
Adlai: !s mpcd
assbot: 2 results for 'mpcd' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mpcd
thestringpuller: yup
Adlai: mpcd = 1JPvucRfu3ZzEvfBUQTJwsxMrZjeTqD6zR ?
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 394.74, Best ask: 395.71, Bid-ask spread: 0.97000, Last trade: 394.71, 24 hour volume: 18807.38370404, 24 hour low: 382.95, 24 hour high: 415.0, 24 hour vwap: 396.951568236
thestringpuller: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/mpex-cdo-roll-call-for-bond-issuers.50044/#post-798717
thestringpuller: For the reason MPCD failed, is likely the reason MPIF is struggling to find profit centers.
thestringpuller: Which effects the entire MPOE economy.
thestringpuller: MPEx*
asciilifeform: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
asciilifeform: odd.
asciilifeform: entirely dead here.
assbot: its been down for 20min
joecool: dead here too
asciilifeform: cazalla: if blob is unfit for qntra - whatever.
Adlai: well, it looks like MPCD "failed" (the contract didn't fail, the shares "just" lost value) due to investing in what could be called "rockstar investors", who seem to make a habit of burning out spectacularly, taking half the fanbase with them
Adlai: more than any bug i've (inadvertently? subliminally coerced into?) introduced to scalpl, i regret the times that i've manually tweaked its trading parameters, and contaminated its performance data with human idiosyncrasies
decimation: qntra.net is dead here too
decimation: someone is messing with routing tables
decimation: trilema is dead too
asciilifeform: aha.
decimation: they are on neighboring subnets
Adlai: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
assbot: log1 as well, same box afaik
thestringpuller: same problem decimation
assbot: its probably our friend 'little numbers' as i call him. he visited bitbet earlier for a moment.
decimation: my router bounces from telia to an isp in pheomix called "cwie llc"
decimation: traceroute that is
decimation: s/phoemix/phoenix/
assbot: phoenix? would be correct.
decimation: is that you kako?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: can't ssh? no pts? << there is no reason why wallet should be routable to the net.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: idea was - optoisolated point to point serial link.
asciilifeform: wallet - 'speaks when spoken to.'
asciilifeform: and not otherwise.
asciilifeform: and only when spoken to through the rx/tx wire.
assbot: would you believe me either way?
decimation: sure, if you responded as kako
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that was my point.. just because something could be 'on the net' doesn't mean it should
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i understand
decimation: !up cascadian_lurker
cascadian_lurker: thanks d
cascadian_lurker: dunno how to tab complete on a pnohe
decimation: lol
cascadian_lurker: logs down?
decimation: log1 is down for me, log isn't
cascadian_lurker: I get no love at either endpoint
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26764 @ 0.00043157 = 11.5505 BTC [+]
assbot: log2 anyone?
assbot: log1 is back
cazalla: qntra is back
decimation: was the server down?
cazalla: not sure, i just f5 f5 f5 f5 like anyone else
BingoBoingo: assbot: SKip 2, loge
cazalla: when looking for news, i come across quite a few MLM schemes for bitcoin such as bitcoincycler.net, quite a few use pic/video of JuliaTourianski_ lol
cazalla: putin v aussie pm - http://i.imgur.com/orNOUF5.png
decimation: once when I emerged from the Tube in London I was handed one of those free tabloids by some bum. I was amazed at the extremely low quality writing, and pro-welfare ads
The20YearIRCloud: Sport, decimation ?
decimation: eh?
The20YearIRCloud: Weekend/sunday/weekday sport
decimation: yeah I guess that's why people don't immediately toss in the rubbish bid
The20YearIRCloud: https://twitter.com/thesundaysport
assbot: Sunday Sport (@thesundaysport) | Twitter
decimation: eh, it could have been. I felt dirty touching the thing, didn't examine it closely
The20YearIRCloud: I love their 'articles', locally we used to have weekly world news, and it went under. However in the UK for some reason tabloids are HUGE there. Along with soap operas
The20YearIRCloud: http://www.sundaysport.com/?p=17812
assbot: DRUNK BONKS DONER KEBAB | Sunday Sport
decimation: this stuff makes the daily mail look classy
The20YearIRCloud: https://twitter.com/thesundaysport/status/531177165212360704
assbot: Warning: Don't buff your ballbag on a shoe shine machine. Here's why - in tomorrow's /thesundaysport http://t.co/moIlQF7RUE
decimation: here's the american version http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/14/gruber-has-made-at-least-5-9-million-for-government-work/
assbot: Gruber Has Made At Least $5.9 Million For Government Work | The Daily Caller
The20YearIRCloud: That's a website though i think, the sport is an actual magazine in most places
decimation: why don't they have tabloids based in say columbus?
The20YearIRCloud: We have a few in the US, and they're all celeb rags. We *had* WWN but they went under
The20YearIRCloud: We'll never know what happened to batboy unfortunately
The20YearIRCloud: They still have a site, but no one visits it : http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/54540/chicago-to-be-renamed-obama-city/
assbot: CHICAGO TO BE RENAMED “OBAMA CITY” | Weekly World News
decimation: lol
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: do you do any business in franklin county?
The20YearIRCloud: Housewise? No, not a fan of their zoning & property inspection board. If we grow enough i'm sure i'll HAVE to go there, but for now i'd like to avoid it.
The20YearIRCloud: One of the counties we're in has virtually no permiting process for home repairs, if I did the stuff I'm doing there in Columbus I'd of had 5 figures worth of fines.
The20YearIRCloud: (Of course, I'd of got a permit in Franklin, but I hate the idea of it all).
decimation: do you think that's because they are in the union trade's pockets?
The20YearIRCloud: That wouldn't surprise me much, but they also have had coleman who is a ultra-liberal for years and years.
The20YearIRCloud: He's got a big claim to fame because he's good at 'renovating' poor districts, he does it by moving all the poor people from one neighborhood to another.
The20YearIRCloud: Downtown was a cesspool, then they kicked everyone out and made it so only rich could live there, alot of those moved to the short north. Then they did the same thing with the short north and all those people moved to Linden and Hilltop.
decimation: I've heard the short north is popular with the kids around osu
The20YearIRCloud: I had a house up there I was dealing with for someone, and I had roofers up there doing work. Zoning came by and complained that we hadn't bought the $100 permit, so they forced the guys off the roof even though it was going to rain soon and wouldn't let them put the tarp up there till there was a permit.
decimation: this as much as anyone 'owns' a house in the us
The20YearIRCloud: Well, you can drive 45 minutes outside of a columbus where you can buy land, build a smoke factory and the county asks for a $5 paperwork fee and literally nothing else
decimation: heh
The20YearIRCloud: So, if I can go into a neighborhood where they really don't want me there, and one where the city bends over backwards to try and help me out, i'll go with the second one
The20YearIRCloud: Especially if the yields in both are almost identical
decimation: well, that's a fair point.
decimation: I imagine property tax in columbus and the 'burbs is sky high too
The20YearIRCloud: it's higher, it isn't astronomical though
The20YearIRCloud: A cheap house where we're working will run $450-$800 , same house in Columbus would be $1000-$1200
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23499 @ 0.00042279 = 9.9351 BTC [-]
The20YearIRCloud: of course the scale of markets is quite different. In the 4 counties I expect to be able to find maybe 200 quality properties a year. In franklin I could find 200 a month easily.
decimation: for the quality of hovel you are buying and fixing, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a few empty plots and buy some trailers or 'tiny homes' or whatever
decimation: I guess you gotta pay for utilities, etc in that case
The20YearIRCloud: You seen the houses we own?
The20YearIRCloud: I haven't delt with trailers yet, I want to but it's a different deal since you have to develop them out (including sewage) which is an EPA deal you can't get around easily.
decimation: I recall you saying a few months ago that they are all really old
The20YearIRCloud: Yeah, they are, but all are in good shape
decimation: yeah I guess where you are there is no water or sewage
The20YearIRCloud: It depends on where you want to do the trailer
decimation: septic systems are not cheap
The20YearIRCloud: Our first one was 2000sf, 5+br , 2ba, attached garage, built in 1880 and it turned out great
The20YearIRCloud: $10k-$20k
decimation: back in that time that would have been a mansion
decimation: or a multi-family house
The20YearIRCloud: Here's a bunch of random photos I had on my cellphone - https://www.dropbox.com/sc/rpzhm6eb5c14upe/AADe8OLgg4k-LFt2Xs3No9CEa
The20YearIRCloud: It would have been a medium/high level person's house. It's near downtown and is only a few houses away from a speakeasy that was in operation during prohibition. It sold recently (the speakeasy) for around $200k.
decimation: that's pretty nice inside actually
decimation: better than a trailer anyway
The20YearIRCloud: Those are 3 or 4 different houses
decimation: that first kitchen is nice
decimation: was that the amish fellows who cleaned it up?
The20YearIRCloud: I know I joke about owning slum houses, but they're all actually very nice. I underprice our rentals by maybe 5%-10% under normal market prices, and keep em in slightly better shape.
The20YearIRCloud: That first kitchen was the first complete rehab we did on a kitchen, every single thing there is brand new.
The20YearIRCloud: Second kitchen photo is from a duplex we just bought for $30k ($15k a side)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that flgiuht path thing is not nearly as indicative as it may seem to the casual observer.
mircea_popescu: flight paths in europe are seasonal.
mircea_popescu: Adlai: now that's an interesting hypothesis to test: a bot lurks and tracks "shortest path" to each past message, then records when i link it as opposed to somebody else links it to me <<< actually a reconstruction of the ba logs where lines are nodes and they're given pr as per original google mechanism may be the first step towards stemming this whole bundle.
Adlai: right, but then you can look at properties of the graph's flow to draw wildly overzealous conclusions about the attentiveness and lazyness of real live humans
mircea_popescu: decimation:trilema is dead too << still ?
BingoBoingo: http://m.tn.com.ar/deportes/tremendo/indignante-el-presidente-de-textil-mandiyu-le-robo-a-sus-jugadores-con-la-ayuda-de-los-barras_544582
decimation: yeah it's still down for me
mircea_popescu: decimation: my router bounces from telia to an isp in pheomix called "cwie llc" <<< this sounds like a route hijack then. qntra is in amsterdam.
decimation: interestingly I'm getting pings through, very very slowly
mircea_popescu: what ip ?
assbot: qntra is on phoenix nap, amsterdam.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2014/11/cfpbs-proposed-rules-governing-prepaid-cards-include-virtual-currency/
decimation: is it hosted by 'secured servers'?
mircea_popescu: the heck can i see it then ?
assbot: ;;isup also everything even if it not a valid url
gribble: also everything even if it not a valid url is up
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is proving impossible to debug, people not seeing it pls to pastebin traceroutes at the time you don't see it.
mircea_popescu: uh so that's broken ?
mircea_popescu: ;;isup example.com
gribble: example.com is up
decimation: hehe yeah
mircea_popescu: gah
decimation: ;;isup isuck.com
gribble: isuck.com is up
assbot: "example.com" actually is up
mircea_popescu: internet needs a canoniucal down domain
mircea_popescu: ;;isup obamacare.com
gribble: obamacare.com is up
decimation: ;;isup canonicaldowndomain.com
gribble: canonicaldowndomain.com is down
decimation: lol
mircea_popescu: aha!
assbot: decimation yes its hosted there
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923264 << srsly
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:46; mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: so how the fuck then!
decimation: well they have a pheonix pop
decimation: who knows how shit gets routed
BingoBoingo: ;;isup test.down
gribble: test.down is down
assbot: that entry is wrong, its routed just fine to ams
mircea_popescu: assbot : pm lol
mircea_popescu: also, re earlier discussion : http://i.imgur.com/0C5fmGB.jpg
decimation: is that your picture of an ohio hovel?
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: http://23.235.236.98
decimation: yeah qntra is up
decimation: I donno, it smells to me like a server problem
joecool: responding to ping for me, nothing else
mircea_popescu: how the fuck. the server has been up all along, the load is like 0.1 or some shit for the hour.
joecool: mircea_popescu: nginx or whatever other server you use on it crashed?
decimation: interesting
mircea_popescu: joecool nope.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck would i see pages on a crashed server anyway.
cazalla: is that Bruno Kucinskas all there in the head? he reckons patrick murck raped like 30 kids
mircea_popescu: phin gage is a little strange. he does tons of research, some of which is useufl.
Adlai: ;;isup http://dead.link/
gribble: http://dead.link/ is down
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923258 << localhost:0☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:14; mircea_popescu: internet needs a canoniucal down domain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00043684 = 18.5657 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;isup localhost:0
gribble: localhost:0 is up
mircea_popescu: so muh for that idea.
Adlai: ;;isup http://localhost:0/
gribble: http://localhost:0/ is up
Adlai: hmph.
Adlai: curl: (7) Failed to connect to localhost port 0: Connection refused
Adlai wonders what's running on... some server
assbot: ;;isup adlais penis
gribble: adlais penis is up
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MAK2HC.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3
assbot: ha, im unbashable
BingoBoingo: lol
decimation: the server is up, it looks to me that there is at least one route that is being ddosed/constantly reset
Adlai was wondering about ;;isup's server, should've !b5ed for that context
mircea_popescu: decimation the best i can come up with is that yes, some weakly router that is nevertheless for insane unexplainable reason priority route from the us is constantly fucked up
mircea_popescu: and im not even sure that i can do anything about it other than write angry letters.
decimation: yeah probably not
decimation: someone might have figured out how to trip the 'anti-ddos rate-limit' trap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3784 @ 0.00042279 = 1.5998 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: At this rate we might need a router foundation!
mircea_popescu: why does it only catch you folk ?
decimation: I donno. if there is some theoretical anti-ddos filter, it might try to limit its action to certain subnets?
mircea_popescu: maybe ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm having this looked into, but i tell you i dun even know wtf.
BingoBoingo hasn't had trouble accessing qntra in quite a while a few hundred miles from geographic center of USia
decimation: yeah in theory the internet has all kinds of redundant routing, in practice there are many chokepoints it would seem
Adlai: lizard nazis probing the turmite colony's readership habits
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so can you load it right now ?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, loads all kinds of fast
mircea_popescu: dude srsly...
RagnarDanneskjol: i just tried it from multiple IPs in US and EU - no luck here
decimation: I can get to qntra, but not trilema
joecool: qntra works from romanian ip
decimation: ah, now trilema works for me
mircea_popescu: o.O
joecool: lets try some other countries
mircea_popescu: joecool of course, i'm in argentina...
mircea_popescu: decimation this sporadic working no working would seem to mean route.
joecool: works from UK
decimation: yeah it could be some kind of route poisoning
mircea_popescu: the future of ba is point to point cabling it'd seem.
decimation: no - shortwave
Adlai: works now.
Adlai: (from tel aviv)
joecool: works back in 'murica now
joecool: they're onto us
mircea_popescu: maybe it's bitchbased.
BingoBoingo: Ass end of my traceroute to qntra.net http://dpaste.com/1QTVGPF
BingoBoingo: 1up fivezerotwo
BingoBoingo: !up fivezerotwo
joecool: BingoBoingo: looks same as mine except i have a ??? between the last two
fivezerotwo: hello again. so assbot appears to be hosted on this server, interesting
fivezerotwo: have fun figuring out what this attack is ^_^
assbot: not rly.
fivezerotwo: assbot, well it was taking a while to respond here
Adlai: !s fivezerotwo
assbot: 154 results for 'fivezerotwo' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=fivezerotwo
assbot: im a slow typist.
fivezerotwo: lol
Adlai toils and link graph bubbles
mircea_popescu: In the beginning there was assembler. And programming was hard. The semantic gap between how humans think about problems and what we knew how to tell computers to do was vast; our ability to manage complexity was deficient. And in the gap software defects did flourish, multiplying in direct proportion to the size of the programs we wrote.
mircea_popescu: And the lives of programmers were hard, and the case of their end-users miserable; for, strive as the programmers might, perfection was achieved only in toy programs while in real-world systems the defect rate was nigh-intolerable. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
mircea_popescu: this is the stupidest thing i ever read.
mircea_popescu: i have NEVER and I do mean NEVER saw programs as good as bacxk in the days of asm.
mircea_popescu: i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made anymore, and hardly a proper suit of clothes.
mircea_popescu: certainly not a top hat.
mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe their lives were harder, but 1960s programmers certainly seem happier.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because asm hard is the proper sort of hard. whereas dependency hell and library cruft is the horribly bad sort of hard.
decimation: well, the systems were small enough to 'fit in the head' as ascii might say
mircea_popescu: climbing a mountain versus diving in a septic tank sort of hard.
Adlai: !s bacxk
assbot: 2 results for 'bacxk' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bacxk
Adlai: oh it's a typo
assbot: !b 3
mircea_popescu: lol you ocd soul you.
assbot: ;;echo !b 5
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3WFTZ0G.txt )
gribble: !b 5
assbot: nope, not satisfactory
mircea_popescu: ;;echo !echo ;;echo !b 18
gribble: !echo ;;echo !b 18
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00042279 = 5.6442 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;google horatiu capastru
gribble: Iunie 2009 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2009/06>; Gandesc, deci gandesc pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/gandesc-deci-gandesc/>
Adlai: ;;google recursion
gribble: Recursion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion>; Recursion (computer science) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion_(computer_science)>; Recursion -- from Wolfram MathWorld: <http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Recursion.html>
Adlai: hm, no link to the google results page?
thestringpuller: ;;isup qntra.net
Adlai is talking about "<span class="spell _uwb">Did you mean:</span> <a class="spell" href="/search?espv=2&amp;q=recursion&amp;spell=1"><b><i>recursion</i></b></a> "
gribble: qntra.net is up
thestringpuller: qntra still down for anyone in US?
mircea_popescu: is it for you ?
thestringpuller: yessir
decimation: qntra.net is down for me now, trilema too
fivezerotwo: mircea_popescu, it's down, I'm sure. http://check-host.net/check-http?host=qntra.net
mircea_popescu shrugs
TheNewDeal: bitbet is raging on
thestringpuller: http://dpaste.com/3H14489.txt << when asking coinbase about buterin's waterfall
mircea_popescu: lol why harassing indians.
Adlai: thestringpuller: why not link in http://qntra.net/2014/11/bip-65-revisiting-nlocktime/ to the polished code? https://github.com/adlai/bitcoin/blob/polish/src/main.h#L397
assbot: BIP-65: Revisiting nLockTime | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: wait was this supposed to work ?!
thestringpuller: Adlai: i can't see the article yet so I can't answer the question
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it's your article from yest
mircea_popescu: or w/e the 13th was
Adlai: or if you don't want to use the polish fork for some reason, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.h#L403
TheNewDeal: !sideways fivezerotwo
Adlai: thestringpuller: BIP65 article, link to CTransaction::nLockTime
thestringpuller: yes I see. does it really matter?
thestringpuller: just a uint32 variable I was trying to show
Adlai: nope
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made... << oh but it can.
mircea_popescu: maybe.
decimation: asciilifeform: on new hardware?
asciilifeform: decimation: on whatever hardware.
asciilifeform: decimation: another generation or three of 'this', and hardware will look like the same shitfest as os/sw stack is now. fortunately 'this' doesn't have even one generation left in it.
mircea_popescu: so we hope.
mircea_popescu: if they find fusion, it does.
decimation: 'this' being the current state of computing?
asciilifeform: if they find fusion, laser wars between flying machines.
asciilifeform: hopefully everything is destroyed.
thestringpuller: hmm. am I on qntra blacklist?
thestringpuller: @mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.0004271 = 26.2453 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: I want my pocket laser gun
asciilifeform: incidentally, for implications of working fusion, straight to:
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
assbot: 8 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb
asciilifeform: applies just as readily here as it did in 1945 re: fission.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it dun has a blacklist
decimation: imagine 'future war' where your squad as a 'laser machine gun'. In order to take the next hill, you need to lay down suppressing fire. the laser machine gunner opens up, and the enemy doesn't notice
asciilifeform: qntra dead here.
decimation: qntra is dead, but trilmea just popped up again
asciilifeform: lol, laser suppressing fire
thestringpuller: guess east coast thing
asciilifeform: what next, laser musketry volley?
decimation: maybe he can screw 'pew pew pew'
thestringpuller: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
decimation: s/screw/scream/
decimation: I suspect that fusion-powered robots will be doing most of the fighting anyway
Adlai: asciilifeform: if you want to find when bitcoin started to have value, just look at when people began hoarding it: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/2881 suggests the april 2010 as the start of hoarding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17350 @ 0.00042279 = 7.3354 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: decimation: meatbags will still do 100% of the dying.
decimation: sure
decimation: plus robot ninjas are expensive
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> what next, laser musketry volley? <<< srsly. what's this supression fire, like laser welding ?
mircea_popescu: Adlai what's this "start of hoarding" thing mean ?
decimation: I imagine there's going to have to be some kind of visible protocol, otherwise the enemy would simply be confused about what's going on
mircea_popescu: the first blocks mined are still unspent.
asciilifeform: the enemy can be reasonably certain of his own death.
asciilifeform: when it happens.
mircea_popescu: decimation if you could fire silent bullets you'd find loud ones because protocol ?
decimation: yeah, like full metal jackets
mircea_popescu: and wtf is "visible laser" anyway
Adlai: mircea_popescu: playing around with the magnitude of "valuable" in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922718 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:41:00; asciilifeform: because it is the only one which existed upon the earth before bitcoin was valuable!
mircea_popescu: not like military grade laser will be like in star trek
asciilifeform: visible laser << rayleigh scattering.
decimation: right, one that transmits somewhere in the visible spectrum (to humans)
asciilifeform: switch on a toy green laser in dark room.
Adlai: max paranoia = starting around april 2010, at least one tla began stockpiling coins
asciilifeform: switch on large far-ir laser - also visible (!) - heated air
decimation: I suspect the first 'military laser' will be infrared
mircea_popescu: decimation you're late. the first military laser IS co2, uv.
decimation: heh yeah good point
decimation: but that wasn't really a man-portable system
mircea_popescu: it woulkd be uv and uuv anyway. higher energy better focus less scatter.
asciilifeform: which 'military laser' ? there are 1000.
Adlai: well, short of satoshi acting in a tla-ish manner, perhaps due to belonging to a tla himself
mircea_popescu: ;;ud tla
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLA | TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms. by uncle tom ... It always have been and will be Lucas and Peyton, TLA (True Love Always). by lp_tla ...
decimation: Something you could give to a grunt to replace his rifle
mircea_popescu: i doubt you will have man operated lasers anyway
mircea_popescu: it'd be 100% drones
asciilifeform: what the hell would be the point?
mircea_popescu: right ?
decimation: exactly
asciilifeform: i suppose it's hard to blow yer own brains out with a drone.
asciilifeform: although still doable.
decimation: or frag your lt
mircea_popescu: why hard ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, if 'cheap and compact source of infinite energy', the 'plasma rifle' from 'doom', etc. can exist.
decimation: actually this brings up a good point, why aren't 'silent guns' more popular in military circles
Adlai: "TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms." << i'd go as far as/cronyms/gencies/
mircea_popescu: decimation because they can't be made.
asciilifeform: ionized atmosphere with laser, pump current through
asciilifeform: a la 'jacob's ladder.
decimation: are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round?
dub: lockheed are buildinf fusion batteries now
dub: wont be long
mircea_popescu: so they claim yeah.
asciilifeform: decimation: the actual 'silent pistol' does not use a gas silencer.
asciilifeform: nor is it entirely silent
mircea_popescu: i suppose the next logical bezzle step is a tesla-lockheed merger
asciilifeform: (mechanical noise from the action. the bullet still whistles. etc)
mircea_popescu: just think, the promise of the electric car married to the promise of the fusion battery
decimation: yeah I agree they aren't 100% silent, but the advantages of silence seem to be large
asciilifeform: decimation: http://topwar.ru/21240-besshumnyy-patron-hm76-ssha.html
asciilifeform: that one.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round? << Range and terminal energy at the target become huge problems this way
asciilifeform: gas stays in.
mircea_popescu: decimation swat / town warfare teams use supressed weapons
mircea_popescu: mostly so they don't bleed from the ears.
decimation: I suppose the idea that the 'standard grunt' is snaking up on someone is unlikely
decimation: s/snaking/sneaking/
decimation: but snaking works too
thestringpuller: solid snake
asciilifeform: incidentally, if the magic fusor can be nudged into chain reaction, it's game over.
decimation: asciilifeform: what do you mean, like a fusion bomb?
asciilifeform: doesn't even matter if 99 in a hundred men who open theirs, die
asciilifeform: decimation: yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not hard to make it limited.
asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end
asciilifeform: to large-scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a ‘peace that is no peace’.'
asciilifeform: make it limited << lol
asciilifeform: what has been limited by the hand of man, can be un-limited.
mircea_popescu: how ?
Adlai: thestringpuller: overall though i liked the bip65 article, it was worded neutrally enough that it could almost be tagged 'News'
asciilifeform: unless the case is one of 'intrinsic' safety a la fissile mechanics
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform has the hand of man enabled the disabled cores in an intel chip ?
decimation: right, the 'fissile' bomb runs out of fissile material
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: give man a few days with ion beam workstation.
mircea_popescu: how do you add deuterium inside the core ? with an enema pump ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you sit down and think about it for a bit, you can figure out six different methods.
mircea_popescu: yeah, and ?
asciilifeform: 'there is no safe that can be kept in the robber's living room.'
mircea_popescu: i'd rather think about kim's butt.
mircea_popescu: so would 99 men in a 100
asciilifeform: aha but we just need the 1.
dub: kim dotcom?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, working but slowly http://pastebin.com/4XCDXVSi
mircea_popescu: well, let's ut it this way : the reason the state does not collapse in a tsunami of violence is not now nor was it ever historically that such would be physically impossible.
mircea_popescu: it is always that nobody can be bothered.
cazalla: well, qntra is intermittent for me
mircea_popescu: otherwise, see the experiences of the various members of the tsar's fambly with artisanal bombs
asciilifeform: what if herr frein spent his life contemplating how to rewire his fusor
asciilifeform: instead of marksmanship
mircea_popescu: dub no, the fat female kim. champagne assgirl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this curren state will collapse regardless. not a technical, but a policital problem. it just sucks.
mircea_popescu: nothing can save it.
asciilifeform: right now it takes more than one man, however enthusiastic, working in his basement for twenty years, to level a city.
mircea_popescu: not so
mircea_popescu: recall the case of the kid who built his own nuke
mircea_popescu: out of smoke detectors ?
asciilifeform: except he didn't
decimation: he just built a waste site
mircea_popescu: well, he didn't work for the full 20 years either.
asciilifeform: lovely legend, but fails kindergarten physics.
decimation: although thorium is a fissile material
mircea_popescu: the sad truth of the matter is that with the current state of manufacturing, i could build my own nuke. wouldn't even take a decade.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the operative boojum wouldn't be the demolition of a particular plot of real estate.
mircea_popescu: i can centrifuge my own uranium, there's plenty of places where it's directly exploitable etc.
asciilifeform: but a demonstration of 'with fiddybucks any discontented sod can now do it where he wants'
mircea_popescu: the fact that the iranians don't manage just shows how fucktarded htey are. it's by now a one man job.
thestringpuller: Adlai: i don't think it was tagged as news
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: use laser separation.
mircea_popescu: im not intending to lay out an actualrecipe here
mircea_popescu: just making the general point.
asciilifeform: 1/10000th the cost of conventional gas centrifuge.
asciilifeform: above is more or less the recipe
decimation: sorting out u235 from the other neutron spewing isotopes isn't trivial
asciilifeform: (u-235 and u-238 have different absorption spectra)
mircea_popescu: decimation the original bombs were'nt that classy.
mircea_popescu: they won a war
mircea_popescu: the much classier later versions won no war.
mircea_popescu: see what i mean ?
asciilifeform: actually iran tried to build laser separator. the men involved - died. and not of industrial accidents.
TheNewDeal: thats to be determined
asciilifeform: died of 'problems'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda what i mean by "inept iran"
asciilifeform: then they went on to the 'old classic' recipe, and made sure to run moar winblows.
asciilifeform: (literally)
mircea_popescu: state that can't build a pot is one thing. state that can't keep a secret however, deserves to die.
Adlai: !s feeling of power
assbot: 12 results for 'feeling of power' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=feeling+of+power
Adlai: excellent
asciilifeform: state that can't keep a secret << incidentally, notice that no complete 'dump' for ru nuke of whatever variety ever hit the net.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: certainly not a top hat. <<< maybe akubra? nfi on top hats but they have a solid rep
Adlai: specifically http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2014#624410 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2014 18:26:21; gribble: THE FEELING OF POWER by Isaac Asimov Worlds of Science ...: <http://www.math.umn.edu/~rusin018/1271_Fall_2006/extra_1.pdf>; The Feeling of Power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power>; MathFiction: The Feeling of Power (Isaac Asimov) - Alex Kasman: <http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mfview.php?callnumber=mf4>
mircea_popescu: cazalla i know specifically what im talking about, because the last looms capable of making the required felt were destroyed a decade ago as part of a family feud.
mircea_popescu: the world has physically lost the capacity to produce top hats.
mircea_popescu: to me this is much worse news than the extinction of whatever stupid fish or crap
decimation: asciilifeform: of course stalin's agents were all over the us bomb as it was being made
asciilifeform: aha like the u.s. hbomb tamper foam.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, sounds familiar, this story on trilema?
asciilifeform: some of us here, imho, shall live to see the felt brought back.
mircea_popescu: cazalla not sure, mebbe not.
cazalla: something to do with looms is, that i know
asciilifeform: ;;google fogbank
gribble: FOGBANK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK>; Fog Bank: Capitola's Funnest Bar & Grille: <http://www.the-fogbank.com/>; Jeffrey Lewis • FOGBANK: <http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1814/fogbank>
asciilifeform: ^ relevant
decimation: what about the homburg hat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homburg_%28hat%29
BingoBoingo: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-comet-dr-matt-taylor-apology-sexist-shirt#comment-43664788
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41927 @ 0.00042729 = 17.915 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: oh for fucks sake
mircea_popescu: fucking idiot.
asciilifeform: exam - failed.
mircea_popescu: see, it's imbeciles like this that cause trouble. now the point will have to be carved out of some innocent women's skin that nobody gives a shit.
mircea_popescu: had he just pointed and laughed at the "offended" idiots we could have just moved on.
mircea_popescu: basically matt taylor is personally responsible for a few violent gangrrapes now.
mircea_popescu: we need to bully these autistic savants a whole of a lot more, can't be letting the libtards having all the fun.
decimation: yeah I don't get it, if your'e gonna wear a shirt with semi-naked women in front of an international audience, show some follow-through
asciilifeform: 'Knowledge can be lost. Sometimes this is perfectly reasonable: No one knows how to kill and skin a mastodon anymore, for obvious reasons. And cultures frequently lose knowledge as they evolve past it--you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could write a computer program on punch-cards today. But there is something worrisome about misplacing knowledge that is only a generation or two old. And this happens mor
asciilifeform: e often than you might think. ... ... Space enthusiasts say, 'If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we put a man on the moon?' "The answer, Simberg explains, is that we can't "because most of the people who did it are in their dotage or dead, and a lot of it was more art than science."'
asciilifeform: ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/479avvbv.asp?pg=2 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im pretty sure i can still write on punch cards.
asciilifeform: not hard.
asciilifeform: bad example, not because of greybeards, but because of demented archaeologists like yours truly
asciilifeform: and i can hardly imagine a modern big-game hunter having any serious troubles with a mastodon.
asciilifeform: but i can sorta see the point he was trying to make.
mircea_popescu: i sorta can't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00043661 = 19.7348 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: eh we just skinned a balloon, haven't we.
mircea_popescu: knowledge != technology.
decimation: asciilifeform: there's a good example of the 'art v. science' re: moon program here: http://eb-misfit.blogspot.com/2013/10/relighting-saturn-vs-f-1-rocket-engine.html?showComment=1381683061332#c1607749688683256926 "There were single welds on the engine that took all day to weld, by hand, and there were thousands of such welds. The engineers working on the new F1 copy say that theirs has less than 1/10th the parts of the original F1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6109 @ 0.00043769 = 2.6738 BTC [+]
decimation: and should be easily mass produced. "
mircea_popescu: i still know how to make a felt hat
mircea_popescu: doesn't mean the machines still exist.
decimation: each saturn rocket was basically a metal art peice
asciilifeform: decimation: this is not actually uncommon at the 'what is the factory made of' level in industry.
asciilifeform: ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants
mircea_popescu: used to. nowadays it's pretty rare.
asciilifeform: craftsmanship all the way down, after a certain point.
decimation: there's a point there
decimation: someone has to program the robots after all
asciilifeform: much of what makes civilization tick, is not available off the shelf, and the entire notion is nonsensical.
mircea_popescu: whosoever programs the robots doesn't have to do so with chewing gum however.
mircea_popescu: the fact that bitcoin .5.3 is full of spot welds is not a quality.
punkman: .notary status
punkman: notary status
notary: punkman: 1 pending deed | Last bundle 6 hours and 14 minutes ago | 1 unconfirmed bundle
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imagine if, e.g., the 'golden gate' bridge had been built by a retarded child. out of match sticks.
asciilifeform: and it were still in use.
punkman: speaking of shitty code, thing's stuck again
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/RUvwvFk.gif
decimation: it seems to come down to a question of economics, it's generally cheaper to pay a master craftsman to labor over one item, but if one is building thousands it is worth the start-up cost of the robots
asciilifeform: decimation: except that none of this conceptually even applies to a computer program.
decimation: unfortunately no
decimation: one can imagine the software craftsman being aided by tools (likely of his own making)
decimation: but the idea of 'mass production software' is nonsensical
thestringpuller: !up fivezerotwo
mircea_popescu: this "ctrl-c at console" business is so... hm. primitive.
mircea_popescu: in the positive sense of that term.
punkman: :)
asciilifeform: like a death certificate that reads 'stopped breathing'
mircea_popescu: nah, more like a hmm....
punkman: so electrum is blocking forever when I try to send a tx, then the tx sending thread gets stuck
mircea_popescu: nah, more like a retarded athlete who, after a majorly incredible game where his team won very closely or lost very closely is like
mircea_popescu: "well... we lost"
mircea_popescu: myeah dude.
thestringpuller: $conference
empyex: thestringpuller: Next conference starts in 5 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 3.31292039 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )
asciilifeform: re: top hats: i vaguely recall that the planet lost the capacity to make toothpicks for a few months at some point in '09 (?)
asciilifeform: chicom firm cornered the market, the story went, to the point of total monopoly - then went bust
RagnarDanneskjol: punkman i think eventually you're gonna ahve to ditch electrum and run a daemon - these issues are somewhat known and why deedbot 1.0 replaced it w/ api
asciilifeform: perhaps i dreamed all of this.
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: oh deedbot1.0 tried to use electrum?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Clam one of yours?
RagnarDanneskjol: yes
RagnarDanneskjol: went through several versions
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sorry ?
RagnarDanneskjol: the last one actually works perfectly fine - just was on unsecure server
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: From the gif where it did the salt licking
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: well it didn't actually verify deeds
asciilifeform: salt?!
RagnarDanneskjol: how's that?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ah no, bounty of teh internets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. salt.
asciilifeform wanders off to consider this.
fivezerotwo: thanks thestringpuller
mircea_popescu: "This muddle finally hurts those following in the researcher's path. Long after he has his Ph.D. or his tenure, inquiring students will be put off by the document he has left behind. He seems to have solved everything already, so the report says, yet there is no tangible evidence of it besides the report itself."
mircea_popescu: oh brother...
notary: Confirmed bundle 1NUkX9oL with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1NUkX9oLgWDpzWanrsxKdgUqs7JaRUKG4u
BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/polygraph-com-owner-accused-of-training-customers-to-beat-the-polygraph/
mircea_popescu: this is actually the fundamental problem with western academia. the self-licking icecreamcones problem is just a convenient frosting over this, but the point remains that even should that matter be solved, as it trivially would be solved - by say a stalin, which is always cheap
mircea_popescu: nevertheless academia would STILL be fundamentally broken to the point of complete dysfunction.
RagnarDanneskjol: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2660293
RagnarDanneskjol: [Founding Digital Currency on Secure Computation]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23272 @ 0.00042858 = 9.9739 BTC [-]
cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, meh not promoting something that thinks "When a user wants to create an address, the user provides her identity to an IVS. The IVS checks that the provided identity is the identity of a real person who can be located and be accountable if illegal activity is detected, similar to existing Bitcoin payment systems such as Coinbase." is a good idea
RagnarDanneskjol: they have some lame and some rather novel ideas in there
notary: Confirmed bundle 1MH7Ri8j with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1MH7Ri8jmVKWouMdUijZQoH4hsZQb2txq2
Adlai: you wouldn't say that militaries are still churning out pilot plants, but the automation/control balance of piloting itself has shifted?
Adlai: (that was re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923619 )☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 07:32:47; asciilifeform: ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants
RagnarDanneskjol: lols http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/embracing-https/?_r=2
RagnarDanneskjol: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36210 @ 0.00042725 = 15.4707 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00042362 = 9.7602 BTC [-]
RagnarDanneskjol: https://www.spark.io/
punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: similar thingie https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11395
Vexual: the sd one is cool, i dont undertand the other thing
Vexual: duodenum?
Vexual: oh yes, just different form factors
Vexual: such is life
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "It appears he's list 5 billion since June 30th" << lost ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Probably? Where to fix?
mircea_popescu: your article re buffet
mircea_popescu: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/10/24/buffet-problems/
assbot: Buffet Problems | Bingo Blog
BingoBoingo: Ty, fixed
mircea_popescu: and with that, it is time for ass!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00043676 = 21.3576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14691 @ 0.00043717 = 6.4225 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46809 @ 0.00043868 = 20.5342 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15928 @ 0.00044006 = 7.0093 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: <mircea_popescu> <undata> if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, <<< obviously, you're not russia. <<< dat unfamilairity with arctic sovereignty claims
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7212 @ 0.00043657 = 3.1485 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 14 @ 0.08636714 = 1.2091 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31992 @ 0.00043573 = 13.9399 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2maur6/an_open_letter_to_jason_king_of_seans_outpost/cm2l3ae
assbot: SeansOutpost comments on An open letter to Jason King of Sean's Outpost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.0004225 = 33.3775 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: :00000000
nubbins`: i never got the "feed the homeless in this guy's city instead of in your own city" thing
nubbins`: LOOK AT ME I'M DONATING TO SEAN'S OUTPOST
nubbins`: THERE ARE NO HUNGRY PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2QX2KNA.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 4
BingoBoingo: Seriously though you feed the homeless in someone else's city so they all go there. Pied Piper and shit.
nubbins`: "go"
nubbins`: i live on an island, buddy
nubbins`: nearest "city" is 20k people a 10 hour drive away
nubbins`: anyway, always suspected that guy
nubbins`: Easy Feel-Goods for sale, only $1.25
BingoBoingo: No, easy feel goods are $75 at the massage parlor down by the strip club
xanthyos: http://i.gyazo.com/970002ace57462fba98546820653d316.png << look at the progress bar on an electronic transaction initiated two full days ago. obsolescence.
xanthyos: so coinbase gets 4 full days to abort my purchase, which they will, if the prices goes up, and they won't if it levels or drops. with btc market volatility they have a sure thing
xanthyos: business days, so essentially a full week
xanthyos: using the customer's assumption that banking is a slow process (2 business days) and doubling that hoping they won't notice just to extend their opportunity to abort a sale that's not in their favor
mats_cd03: 08:56:40 <+BingoBoingo> Seriously though you feed the homeless in someone else's city so they all go there. Pied Piper and shit. << aka San Francisco
xanthyos: actually liberal "utopias" like sf have very little accomodations for the poor
xanthyos: as someone who's been homeless i've found it much easier to survive in backwoods towns in minnesota where people are poorer and not politicized
xanthyos: california is a scam state and hollywood has used its media to convince the world that it doesn't suck there, but it really does
mats_cd03: sure. there are still hills of homeless in SF, despite billions spent trying to fix it
xanthyos: SF spends its billions laying asphalt for zig-zaggy roads on their hills, not on the homeless
xanthyos: hills
mats_cd03: http://www.sfchronicle.com/archive/item/A-decade-of-homelessness-Thousands-in-S-F-30431.php << 3k 'supportive housing units'
mats_cd03: "The city spends $165 million a year on homeless services, about half of which funds supportive housing. That’s one of the highest levels of per-capita spending on homelessness of any city in the nation, said Philip Mangano, who served as the nation’s homeless czar under President Bush."
mats_cd03: "... the nation's homeless czar" << lol
xanthyos: so inefficient
xanthyos: someone should take a box cutter to nancy pelosi's plastic mask
The20YearIRCloud: and yet their homelessness problem is still one of the worst in the country
nubbins`: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:fa7a9bfb7a0cda9a3b7302dd46bf9392bd9f7b87f41cecfed6437ddb
nubbins`: i mean.
nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/stephen-harper-at-g20-tells-vladimir-putin-to-get-out-of-ukraine-1.2836382
assbot: Stephen Harper at G20 tells Vladimir Putin to 'get out of Ukraine' - World - CBC News
nubbins`: curious to see what a .ru article about this says :D
nubbins`: "According to MacDonald, Putin did not respond positively. He didn't provide further details."
jurov: ohmy, dat log
jurov: btw, what else can putin do? taking care of the nation is not capable of enacting western definition of lawful order
jurov: despite generations of geletical pool cleansing
jurov: *genetical
jurov: try to go and conquer
jurov: nothing alse make sense
jurov: *nothing else makes sense
jurov: http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/ << for cast iron jockeys
pete_dushenski: howdy!
pete_dushenski: so coinbase scored another $50 mn
pete_dushenski: also, scoopbot be borkt so...
xanthyos: heh
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/12/rape-slavery-and-other-considerations/
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/14/terrible-nasty-unfair-evil-no-good-money-and-its-relation-to-net-worth/
nubbins`: cast iron 4 life
pete_dushenski: and no assbot either eh
nubbins`: the guy who runs javaranch got me into cast iron
nubbins`: flaxseed oil!
pete_dushenski: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/us/series-of-secret-service-blunders-eased-way-for-white-house-intruder.html?_r=0 << makes that gasenwagen a lot less threatening of a theory
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
pete_dushenski: incompetence is just so adorable!
pete_dushenski: assbot is too cool for contravex ?
pete_dushenski: fucking bot
pete_dushenski: http://karakullake.blogspot.com/2014/11/assads-31-forms-of-torture.html << from the old school
assbot: Tamerlane's Thoughts: Assad's 31 forms of torture
nubbins`: jurov / urovj i wait for my oil to smoke before putting food in the pan :/
nubbins`: wtf am i supposed to do now!
jurov: repent!
nubbins`: i won't know when the pan is hot enough!
nubbins`: non-scientific take: http://www.richsoil.com/cast-iron.jsp
assbot: How To: Cast Iron Skillet Non-Stick and Lasts a Lifetime
jurov: when cooking with olive oil, i can say by smell it's right temp
pete_dushenski: "the crews that maintain the nation’s 450 intercontinental ballistic missiles had only a single wrench that could attach the nuclear warheads. “They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country"
pete_dushenski: that usg is less threatening by the day i tell you
nubbins`: i actually use viscosity as a guide leading up to the smoke point
nubbins`: this linseed thing is a neat idea tho. my 9" cast iron could use a fresh start
nubbins`: it's rough-bottomed, tho, not sure if it's worth such special treatment just ye
asciilifeform: jurov: mr p's response to australia >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html
assbot: lenta
jurov: so why the separatists were so eager to claim it?
asciilifeform: jurov: which ones and where?
asciilifeform: jurov: first i hear of such
jurov: http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-separatist-leader-boasts-downing-plane/25460930.html
assbot: Ukraine Separatist Social Media Site Claims Plane Downing
asciilifeform: jurov: afaik, nazi fake.
jurov: afaik, RT fake
asciilifeform: jurov: this is interestingly reminiscent of orwell's piece on the spanish war.
asciilifeform: jurov: do you remember it ?
jurov: no
jurov: when RT invites amir taaaki as bitcoin expert, it's clear what they are up to
jurov: but when they pull some "dutch expert" it's suddent sacrosanct truth
jurov: *suddenly
asciilifeform did not endorse rt as truth machine. but notes that, so far, usa has not denied authenticity of the smoking gun.
jurov: nor has russia denied strelkov's boasts
asciilifeform: jurov: the pronouncement that he lacked the necessary rocket is not a denial ?
jurov: BUK was the name of the rocket, russians have it and the border is non-existing
jurov: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696847/They-shouldnt-f-g-flying-There-war-going-Ukraine-intelligence-officials-release-phone-calls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html
assbot: BUK missile launcher shown in Russian separatist stronghold before MH17 crash | Daily Mail Online
jurov: ^ photos of it allegedly operating at the site
jurov: dunno we ever solve this here, it's clear as mud
asciilifeform: the one piece of 'lack of gun' was that a launch is visible and audible for 40km or so around
asciilifeform: and no one, afaik, has fessed up to noticing one.
jurov: how are they so certain it's urk fighter?
jurov: i can easily see russians doing it and placing buk in there as diversion
asciilifeform: jurov: re: spanish: http://orwell.ru/library/essays/Spanish_War/english/esw_1
assbot: George Orwell: Looking back on the Spanish War
BingoBoingo: Fuck it. The Greys did MH-17
asciilifeform: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, n
asciilifeform: ot even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellec
asciilifeform: tuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’.'
BingoBoingo: It's those Alien provacateurs
pete_dushenski: can anyone remember the title of that trilema article where mircea_popescu discloses how much he sold that 5% chunk of mpex for?
pete_dushenski: then number $7mn is stuck in my mind but i can't dig up the article to confirm
pete_dushenski has been reading lots of old trilema articles about the early mpex days
pete_dushenski: it's nothing short of incredible to see just how tame mp reads then as opposed to now
pete_dushenski: "I am by no means convinced it is even correct, but merely the suggestion of it has the sort of breathtaking effect sudden abstraction gives. The reason I’m publishing all this is, of course, that I’m interested to hear what others think. Fill me in below."
pete_dushenski: modesty the likes of which would shock a johnny come lately reader
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/533660967549157376
assbot: Hey VCs, where's the $1.5mn funding for nanotube's WoT ? http://t.co/gdmiYpx1FA
jurov: nonotube doesn't want to join bezzlatron?
pete_dushenski: mebbe he does
ben_vulpes: note to self: next time compress the blockchain *before* copying.
pete_dushenski: hard to imagine anyone legimitately asking him
pete_dushenski: https://imgur.com/6HC0yeM << trilema credits: 4 and still no worky!
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
ben_vulpes: what would he need the money for, pete_dushenski? embedding contracts in the blockchain?
ben_vulpes: give up, web technology will kill your children.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes a house with a pool ?
pete_dushenski: i'd personally be quite interested to see what nanotube would do if given a free $1.5mn
ben_vulpes: kinda dodges the question of why would vcs put capital into it.
ben_vulpes: here's my pipedream shartup
ben_vulpes: pretend there's something smart
ben_vulpes: wrap gpg
ben_vulpes: end passwords
ben_vulpes: FIN
ben_vulpes: it doesn't even have a profit model!
ben_vulpes: what could go wrong!?
nubbins`: CIS installed in epson printer. print a file. epson says "it is almost time to replace ink cartridges"
nubbins`: NICE TRY
ben_vulpes: baww
ben_vulpes: piped tar into curl
ben_vulpes: exhausted all memory
nubbins`: heh
ben_vulpes: noob
nubbins`: (CIS = http://imgur.com/5uggnbK )
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's an 'end password' ?
ben_vulpes: end is a verb in this context.
nubbins`: google end
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you have in mind?
ben_vulpes: token decryption.
asciilifeform: gribble-login for everything?
ben_vulpes: mhm.
ben_vulpes: 's the only way.
asciilifeform: why does this need money ?
ben_vulpes: because i need a shartup!
asciilifeform: ahaha lol
ben_vulpes: gotta hire sales people
ben_vulpes: rent an office
ben_vulpes: flip the ponzi a few times
asciilifeform thought ben_vulpes already did something of the kind at day job
ben_vulpes: what, run a ponzi?
asciilifeform: not necessarily
asciilifeform: but, some sort of firm
nubbins`: hah
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/374TEEE.txt )
nubbins`: !b 6
ben_vulpes: yes i have a thing
nubbins`: !gettrust assbot Anduck
nubbins`: i mean.
nubbins`: ;;gettrust assbot Anduck
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Anduck!~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
ben_vulpes: but it's kind of an estes scale thing, and i want a giant tower of hydrocarbons atop which to ride out of this gravity well.
nubbins`: !up Anduck
nubbins`: Anduck, you have L2 trust w/ assbot so you can take advantage of deed system
punkman: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328849.msg9457267#msg9457267
assbot: Trust system - users with most trust list trust
ben_vulpes: http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << not actually a thing?
assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts
ben_vulpes: hm nm.
punkman: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780707
assbot: Forum finances
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes i want a giant tower of hydrocarbons << for some reason i didn't even think you had a car
pete_dushenski: "Taxes and bitcoin, what is this sorcery"
pete_dushenski: heya punkman how goes the punkbot ?
punkman: notary status
notary: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle 9 hours and 16 minutes ago
pete_dushenski: ah yes!
punkman: punkbot balance
notary: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.06251 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 568 more bundles.
punkman: well in case someone forgets, both work
pete_dushenski: cool
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: oh i own one. rarely use it though.
ben_vulpes: preferring to walk and bike.
pete_dushenski: ;;rate punkman 1 maker of notary bot for #b-a deeds
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user punkman has been recorded.
ben_vulpes: but the things that one can do with a car don't really hold a candle to those that can be done with large rockets.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes a but of course
ben_vulpes: cars don't fly.
pete_dushenski: anymore than bricks
ben_vulpes: planes don't escape the gravity well.
ben_vulpes: ('cept maybe the skylon)
ben_vulpes: adios pete_dushenski, see you another day.
pete_dushenski: meh gravity well is 75% in your own noodle
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes cheers mate
assbot: http://news.rice.edu/2014/11/05/next-for-darpa-autocomplete-for-programmers/
assbot: Next for DARPA: ‘Autocomplete’ for programmers
asciilifeform: autocomplete << lol!
asciilifeform: http://auto-complete.org
assbot: Auto-Complete - An Intelligent auto-completion extension for Emacs
asciilifeform: or even microshit's
asciilifeform: am i missing something?
asciilifeform: or was that article stolen from 'the onion' ?
asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/04/lets-cut-to-the-chase-is-la-serenissima-a-cult/#comment-4569 << interesting re: pankkake
assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
asciilifeform: i somehow missed this.
asciilifeform: what was his project (mentioned in the comment) ?
asciilifeform: incidentally - are there other 'retired' #b-a folks?
asciilifeform: is there, somewhere, a smoky bar where they down hard drinks and tell anyone who'll listen how 'it was all a sham11!1!' ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform haven't seen thickasthieves in a while either...
pete_dushenski: brb
asciilifeform: ;;seen thickasthieves
gribble: thickasthieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <ThickAsThieves> but you da boss
nubbins`: he hasn't been around as much since he stopped with xbond, neobee, etc
nubbins`: i guess there's no gems left to push 8)
TheNewDeal: is evorhees considered a retired #b-a member?
asciilifeform: not being the shrink for either of these folks, i can't say with certainty, but do have a hypothesis:
asciilifeform: some people don't react well to a (perceived) collapse of fantasy of escape from gravity well.
asciilifeform: this may also explain the disappearance of moiety and a few other folks.
nubbins`: iow, "gentlemen, we shall not be the future elite"?
asciilifeform: not precisely
asciilifeform: they, i suspect, reach a point of thinking 'i can't eat hope'
nubbins`: but they can sure as shit eat crow :D
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
asciilifeform: ^ naggum on the subject
asciilifeform: 'The whole idea that anything can be so "shared" as to have no value in itself is not a problem if the rest of the world ensures that nobody _is_ starving or needing money. For young people who have parents who pay for them or student grants or loans and basically have yet to figure out that it costs a hell of a lot of money to live in a highly advanced society, this is not such a bad idea. Grow up, graduate,
asciilifeform: marry, start a family, buy a house, have an accident, get seriously ill for a while, or a number of other very expensive things people actually do all the time, and the value of your work starts to get very real and concrete to you, at which point giving away things to be "nice" to some "community" which turns out not to be "nice" _enough_ in return that you will actually stay alive, is no longer an option. Al
asciilifeform: l of this "code sharing" is an economic surplus phenomenon. It works only when none of the people involved in it are in any form of need. As soon as the need arises, a lot of people discover that it has cost them real money to work for the community and they reap very little benefit from it, because they are sharing value-less services and getting value out of something that people take for granted is hard to
asciilifeform: impossible.'
asciilifeform: the funny part is that nobody quit, e.g., a model airplane club, because they realize that it will not make them rich.
asciilifeform: it is precisely the existence of 'success stories' in #b-a that creates the problem (if you will) of nonzero expectations.
nubbins`: there are success stories in here? o.O
TheNewDeal: if Mp wee #1, voorhees was #2, who would you say is number 3 in the success story lineup?
asciilifeform: kako?
nubbins`: lel, i kid.
TheNewDeal: just curious - I'm capable of formatting my own opinions, just want to see how they measure up to others
nubbins`: probably tat, he got rich as fuck
TheNewDeal: but he was mostly riding the coattails, no?
nubbins`: his coins aren't colored as such
TheNewDeal: didn't he run a passthrough that was basically just an additional surcharge passthrough?
nubbins`: several of them
nubbins`: doesn't the corner store just buy flats of pepsi from costco?
TheNewDeal: I don't really consider the owner rich
TheNewDeal: you know?
nubbins`: he had what, two AM passthrus, the SMG passthru, maybe three neobee passthrus?
nubbins`: TheNewDeal sure, but if the owner didn't have to buy a store and now drives around in an escalade...
TheNewDeal: you could call bitcoin harware resellers successful
TheNewDeal: and I'm sure there are some that have made a pretty penny
nubbins`: sure, but in here?
TheNewDeal: but the idea is that it's sustainable
nubbins`: what's success mean in this context anyway? got in early?
nubbins`: in that sense, mp is successful, but so is goat
asciilifeform: 'successful' i'd propose, would be in this context, folks who once had to prostitute themselves for fiat who no longer must, on account of something they worked on in collaboration with the people here.
nubbins`: that's workable
nubbins`: successful as a measure of percent exit from fiat
asciilifeform: well, exit from wage labour
TheNewDeal: ding ding ding
nubbins`: implying wage labour remunerated in btc doesn't fit?
nubbins`: say, a blockchain.info employee
TheNewDeal: correct
TheNewDeal: if they're making peas
nubbins`: makes sense
TheNewDeal: I can just as easily be a fry cook at mcdonalds and change my $100 monthly profits to btc
asciilifeform: i'd imagine i'm not the only one who considers 'success' as implying a total exit from 'don't work a day - don't eat a day'
nubbins`: surely not
nubbins`: worth noting that this definition relies on flow in as well as out
asciilifeform: wage labour is wage labour, whether for usd, btc, or gold dubloons
asciilifeform: example,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2014#449496 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2014 19:47:07; asciilifeform: getting back to the crapware: most instances you're dealing with a case of 'work 12 hrs. a day to make minim. wage while you sleep.'
nubbins`: "great high pay job" 2 hour highway drive each direction, daily
nubbins`: anyway, i guess under these criteria i'd be considered a success, although i'm admittedly raising an eyebrow myself over this
TheNewDeal: Was working up in Canada a few weeks ago. Business owner claimed that everyone in Canada that wanted to work had a job
nubbins`: tbf a significant portion of my income still (a) is received in fiat and (b) doesn't come from this sphere
asciilifeform: nubbins`: let's say you wanted to close your printery and spend the rest of your days as a taleb-like scholarly man of leisure.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal ehhhhhhhh yes and no.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: could you?
TheNewDeal: did not feel the need to argue the point that no on in their right mind wants to stock shelves at the Canadian superstore at 2am
nubbins`: asciilifeform yeah, fair enough. not quite.
nubbins`: in the next half-decade or so, sure
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that was the 'success' i was theorizing about people being disappointed in not having.
nubbins`: looks pretty naked laid out like that, huh
asciilifeform: i can't claim to have a handle on what ails pankkake et. al.
asciilifeform: this is merely the picture seen through my own 'shit-coloured glasses.'
asciilifeform: i conjecture that it's all a problem of expectations.
nubbins`: i figured it was a combination of the rose tint coming off his glasses, and getting tired of the bellicose rhetoric
asciilifeform: i, for instance, expect to end up slowly dismembered in a cia dungeon.
asciilifeform: every day that this has not yet taken place, i am pleasantly surprised.
TheNewDeal: lel
TheNewDeal: I don't see pankakke's argument considering dumb and evil people in bitcoin
TheNewDeal: isn't the same thing in the bezzle economy?
nubbins`: sure, it's just concentrated more here
nubbins`: bitcoin is a rube funnel
asciilifeform: he may be rehashing an argument made, among other places, in my 'microscope hammer' article.
nubbins`: all these starry-eyeds wandering into a lion's den thinking it's the just the coolest thing
TheNewDeal: linky ascii?
nubbins`: and holy shit you can buy stocks i've always wanted to etc
nubbins`: omg doadj-coin etc
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939
assbot: Loper OS » Bitcoin, or How to Hammer in Nails with a Microscope.
TheNewDeal: gracias
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: did yo ever watch dexter's lab
asciilifeform: possibly once, on 'youtube'
asciilifeform: don't recall precisely what.
asciilifeform: it was mentioned here on at least one occasion
TheNewDeal: ahhh I've read that one before. On a similar note - does that empty block miner still persist? Haven't seen organofcorti mention it
TheNewDeal: assbots back, simply amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: hey there buttboy!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you know, assbot totally should respond to buttboy
mircea_popescu: in other news : http://pastebin.com/S4fwBbpQ
assbot: Return-path: <dd4bc@outlook.com> Envelope-to: * Delivery-date: Sat, 15 Nov 201 - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: and jurov thought HE had issues with whitespace via email. check out this kiddie, 100+ 0x20s
Anduck: .deed
punkbot: Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them.
Anduck: o
Anduck: .help deed
punkbot: Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them.
Anduck: fine, fine. dont help me damn ass bot
mircea_popescu: punkman no moar notary ?
mircea_popescu: Anduck one sec ill fish out an example for you.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: does it cost to use deed service?
mircea_popescu: not yet./
mircea_popescu: donation powered so far.
Anduck: alright
Anduck: sounds pretty good as in it doesn't shit the chain
Anduck: at least compared to the others...
mircea_popescu: Anduck 15-11-2014 01:09:45 <nubbins`> .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5 << like so.
Anduck: thx
mircea_popescu: yeah it's well designed.
Anduck: well, who holds the database?
Anduck: is it decentralized? it doesnt have to be but it'd be great if it was
mircea_popescu: you can dld your own copy. otherwise, punkman is maintaining the deedbot service.
Anduck: remember the link for copy?
mircea_popescu: shit.
Anduck: i checked deeds site, didnt even see an api
mircea_popescu: it doesn't have an api, but you can get json/rss iirc.
Anduck: mm
Anduck: true
mircea_popescu: punkman i forget, how does one download the bundles ?
punkman: there are links bottom of bundle page
punkman: and code is here https://github.com/extempore/deedbundler
assbot: extempore/deedbundler · GitHub
mircea_popescu: nubbins` THERE ARE NO HUNGRY PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE << lawl.
mircea_popescu: o there you are.
mircea_popescu: so wha' happened to notary ? and can the main address: 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny | contact: punkman@freenode get a count of deeds added in the middle ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: it disconnected and had to use alt name, guess I should set it up to revert to notary
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: so coinbase gets 4 full days to abort my purchase, which they will, if the prices goes up, and they won't if it levels or drops. with btc market volatility they have a sure thing <<< not really, because a) there's not so many people ike you, actually using them and b) the respective 0.2 bitcents or w/e add to about enough to buy me a steak.
Anduck: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CKWWskHB
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: california is a scam state and hollywood has used its media to convince the world that it doesn't suck there, but it really does <<< this is by design. cute but stupid 17 yo chick from minesota goes to cali to be rich and famous, has to confront the unexpected situation where being homeless there sucks so as to eagerly overcome her education and suck cock.
Anduck: hmm:(
Anduck: .deed add http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CKWWskHB
punkbot: Anduck: Error: 'add' is not a valid http url.
mircea_popescu: if she knew about the knife she perobably wouldn't run there.
mircea_popescu: Anduck no add in the examplke i gave you
Anduck: mircea_popescu: as you saw, i tried without first
mircea_popescu: ah yes.
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot anduck
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Anduck!~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck. Trust relationship from user assbot to user anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
mircea_popescu: o.O did you find a bug ?
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/X8aNSdsY
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, This is deeds.bitcoin-a - Pastebin.com
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: it verifies
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: and the fingerprint matches anduck's
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yup, and it verifies to his correct key.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: Anduck we thank you for your test, ye cursed by the gods :)
nubbins`: yeah, interesting.
punkman: yeah good signature indeed, hmm
mircea_popescu: and if anyone wonders wtf, i tried to see what happens if i add a newline at the end.
mircea_popescu: but no dice.
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=krnmUkra
punkbot: nubbins`: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: something to do with your key or your relationship to someone
nubbins`: punkbot checks trust to assbot?
mircea_popescu: by spec it should.
mircea_popescu: but it objects that the MESSAGE is invalid.
nubbins`: ehh that's just what the error says
Anduck: well
Anduck: my educated guess: newlines problem
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: i won't know when the pan is hot enough! << look at the oil.
mircea_popescu: eventually you will be able to tell, just by looking
mircea_popescu: (your eye does see ir. you just don't mentally see it, but you do see it.
nubbins`: yeah i wait for first wisps of smoke now, but viscosity is a good judge
mircea_popescu: that entire "can't distinguish hot glass from plain glass is bunk. you can, just need to look at it)
nubbins`: as well
nubbins`: Anduck i'm not so sure
nubbins`: i copy/pasted your deed text to my machine, signed it, and it worked
mircea_popescu: wow that's interesting huh
nubbins`: now tbf copypasta has its own newline quirks i'm sure
nubbins`: but i think punkman covered all bases w.r.t. newlines
nubbins`: Anduck try signing a single line of text
punkman: only explanation is the bot doesn't have your key
nubbins`: how does the bot get keys
punkman: fetches from sks
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: no. the signature block fucks up something
mircea_popescu: maybe something as idiotic as "one line starts with slash" or w/e.
nubbins`: oh, i just took his original text, not the block
nubbins`: huh
nubbins`: ineresting
nubbins`: +t
nubbins`: Anduck i guess try signing any other message and submitting it
punkman: mircea_popescu: I think problem with that is that it stops at nested END PGP SIGNATURE, instead of the outer one
nubbins`: hmm
punkman: but I remember testing that case
nubbins`: sounds like a regex fix
punkman: guess I didn't
nubbins`: END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n$ or smth
nubbins` always has to look that stuff up
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no lol, cuz no \n in spec :D
mircea_popescu: punkman it stops at the commented out one ?
mircea_popescu: ye - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ?
punkman: yeah, I know how to fix that
mircea_popescu: kk
punkman: but why the hell is Anduck's key missing
punkman: should have been there when I bootstrapped pubring
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/29Ed1j5b
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: jurov: when cooking with olive oil, i can say by smell it's right temp << also butter yeah.
nubbins`: oops
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=29Ed1j5b
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: ok yep nesting breaks
nubbins`: still doesnt explain anduck's weirdness
Anduck: ._.
joecool: prob threw finncrypt at it
joecool: breaks everything
nubbins`: Anduck try another deed, would be nice to see if that was a problem with your key or your deed
Anduck: ok
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1i7QYM8g
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: HA!
Anduck: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sgyrnSKb
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
Anduck: deed ?!??
Anduck: do i need to have this same text somewhere else
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tuWJ5TrH
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: haha it's the forward slash at the start of a new line.
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: my intuition!111
Anduck: heh
Anduck: confirm it.
mircea_popescu: now we throw eggs at punkman :D
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: Anduck you could probably just add a whitespace char to your original text, sign it, it'll work
mircea_popescu: nubbins` clearsign doesn't produce the same signature on the same text btw.
Anduck: let's see
nubbins`: o no?
nubbins`: well til
mircea_popescu: think about it.
mircea_popescu: if it did, your messages would be brittle.
nubbins`: i'm still only functionally literate wrt pgp
mircea_popescu: jurov: when RT invites amir taaaki as bitcoin expert, it's clear what they are up to, but when they pull some "dutch expert" it's suddent sacrosanct truth <<< lol he got you there asciilifeform
Anduck: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: bwhahaha
Anduck: i guess
Anduck: hmm..
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vGkqhFr0
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: o.O
Anduck: .deed anduck.net/ducktest.txt
punkbot: Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: looks like it's expecting a very limited charset for that first char
mircea_popescu: apparently.
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 13u9WbT7 with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/13u9WbT7N8WeBAH2kKrvkrPESenDMBpLMU
nubbins`: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sPzaFq8s
punkman: I think I may have borked permissions of gpg dir just now
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
nubbins`: WHAT.
nubbins`: |0|
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: can anyone remember the title of that trilema article where mircea_popescu discloses how much he sold that 5% chunk of mpex for? << http://trilema.com/2013/smpoe-takes-strategic-investor/ ?
assbot: S.MPOE takes strategic investor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: !up supay
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: modesty the likes of which would shock a johnny come lately reader << But within that basic framework there are many subtle variations, only discernable to an acute observer, that reflect the many moods, the many shades, the many sides of MP!
mircea_popescu: (this is morning mist)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski:"where's the $1.5mn funding for nanotube's WoT" << perhaps you don';t understand what "a protocol for decentralized and password-less authentication" means.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: (CIS = http://imgur.com/5uggnbK ) <<< lawl.
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
punkman: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU
assbot: Pastebin.com Unknown Paste ID
punkbot: punkman: Error fetching URL: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU (HTTP Error 404: Not Found)
punkman: .deed http://anduck.net/ducktest.txt
punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
mircea_popescu: | 34 | Gavin Andresen | 0 | << not in forum trust list ; | 33 | OgNasty | 1 | << in forum default trust list.
punkman: yeah your key was missing for some reason
mircea_popescu: so much lulz.
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY
punkbot: mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: dupe)
mircea_popescu: so... wait.
mircea_popescu: ah nm.
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1i7QYM8g
punkbot: mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
mircea_popescu: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: so basically only http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW is still weird.
punkman: will put that on todo list
mircea_popescu: - Expenses: 1505 (1257 Slickage, the rest mostly mods) << according to theymos, tardstalk has spent half a million dollars to one million this year.
punkman: on another message he says he's spent $350k on Slickage
punkman: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=451893.0;all
assbot: LEAKED - Latest status on forum software
mircea_popescu: what's slickage ?
punkman: some web developers
mircea_popescu: someone paid 350k to "web developers" ?
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: ;;rated theymos
gribble: You have not yet rated user theymos
punkman: ;;rate thermos -5
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate theymos -10 defrauded the tardstalk community by throwing ~half a million dollars worth of BTC at some obscure service provider for kickbacks. a lenghty history of fraudulent behaviour, http://trilema.com/2012/scammer-tag-nefario-theymos-others-known-and-unknown/
assbot: Scammer tag : Nefario, theymos, others known and unknown pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user theymos has been recorded.
punkman: well don't know if that quote is real
punkman: but either way
mircea_popescu: he does mention the name in his "report"
mircea_popescu: http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/slickage-studios << this thing. it never had 10k incoming in its lifetime.
assbot: Slickage Studios | CrunchBase
punkman: "let's make our own forum software, compete with SMF"
punkman: in node.js no less
mircea_popescu: unlike the SEC, MP actually is tough on fraud.
mircea_popescu waves @maryjo
jurov: in node? hahahahaha
mircea_popescu: jurov you don't understand how the nodes work!
punkman: https://github.com/slickage/epochtalk
assbot: slickage/epochtalk · GitHub
jurov: i'm laughing because i do understand a bit
punkman: seems no commits since June
mircea_popescu: 2 contributors << lol.
jurov looks forward to Math.random pwnage
mircea_popescu: so basically the 1-10 man dev studio is exactly one guy.
punkman: and more derpage https://github.com/slickage/adness https://github.com/slickage/baron
assbot: slickage/adness · GitHub
assbot: slickage/baron · GitHub
punkman: oh my bad they are still developing https://github.com/epochtalk/core
assbot: epochtalk/core · GitHub
mircea_popescu: adding core to something makes it better
mircea_popescu: like, punk was dead, but then punkcore!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: what was his project (mentioned in the comment) ? <<< you perhaps recall i said at conference i want two things made, an advertising service and a jobs board. we had some initial discussions about it, we ran into a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement, which turned out a much more complex task than originally imagined, last was "we
mircea_popescu: we'll have to think about this some more" and it's the last i heard from him on the topic. or in general, really. that was back in may.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the job board still needs to be made because this system where i drop something in chat and someone either happens to be here or happens to see it in logs is perhaps not optimal.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, it does provide proper incentive for noobs to read the thing, much to their benefit even if "they don't want to, because they know better", so whatevs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: is there, somewhere, a smoky bar where they down hard drinks and tell anyone who'll listen how 'it was all a sham11!1!' ? << not afaik, tho i'd like to have a hard drink myself. tho i imagine that'd ruin it huh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: this may also explain the disappearance of moiety and a few other folks. <<< it's not a bad theory in any sense. got any policy proposals based on it ?
punkman: a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement << interesting in hearing some of those
punkman: *interested
mircea_popescu: punkman you familiar with the problems surrounding bitbet bets resolution ?
mircea_popescu: they [used to] spill out into here with some regularity.
punkman: well some of them at least
mircea_popescu: right. what do words "mean" ? and especially, what do contracts OBVIOUSLY mean.
mircea_popescu: this is not a trivial problem in any sense : http://trilema.com/2013/our-emperor-deliver-us/
assbot: Our Emperor, deliver us. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: "In support of their argument that the Agreement preserves liability only for malicious breaches, defendants argue that the word “willful” would be unnecessary unless it meant “malicious.” There is no reason to limit liability to breaches that are intentional, they claim, because any breach of this Agreement would be intentional—”heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not breach merger agreements out
mircea_popescu: of inadvertence, negligence, or mistake.” As a factual matter, this claim is questionable. It could just as well be said that heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not sign merger agreements containing glaringly ambiguous terms that lead to avoidable litigation—but here we are."
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: does anyone with experience with either gentoo or funtoo care to share their impression(s) of the projects? I'm interested in which group of devs is more intelligent, sane, etc.
Anduck: punkman: what was the error?
mircea_popescu: gentoo is well established, and currently my recommendation for noobs looking at linux.
punkman: Anduck: didn't have your key for some reason
mircea_popescu: Anduck therewas also an unrelated issue discovered, regarding first character on a line, so tyvm.
punkman: no slash character theory was silly
punkman: but problem with nested sigs
mircea_popescu: punkman no, because it failed on the test bundle above.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#924229
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 20:12:52; punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
mircea_popescu: meh wait, wrong one.
mircea_popescu: ah yes right you are, nm.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: The whole idea that anything can be so "shared" as to have no value in itself is not a problem if the rest of the world ensures that nobody _is_ starving or needing money. <<< this is nonsense anyway. money is always needed, this is a scaling problem. average rat living in a hole in the middle east linking his pretenses to humanity to his possesion of an old cellphone someone lost may think ben_vulpes' l
mircea_popescu: ife is the end of want, having a wife and a house in the amerca!!!
mircea_popescu: however, ben himself wants a tower of hydrocarbons.
mircea_popescu: and if he gets it, he'll want something else.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "not needing money" except for coma patients.
mircea_popescu: wanting is the sign of intellectual health, just like erections are the sign of reproductive health. if you're lying down with teh nekkid gals and get no pang to trash them around it doesn't mean you reached nirvana, it just means you're not long for this world.
punkman: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/list-keys.txt plenty of 1024 keys
jurov: didn't we solve a yesterday's conundrum about nature of life?
jurov: ie.e life can be defined as anything that needs money
jurov: or maybe intelligent life...
mircea_popescu: kik
mircea_popescu: punkman put 1024 keys together with the irc nicks so i can send them a later tell ?
Anduck: are 1024s yet bad?
mircea_popescu: best move on, yeah.
Anduck: well yup
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1EWUaXVR with 3 deeds | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1EWUaXVRx4Mm94Q9m6J3BRN3TEjRcnmmuw
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: wage labour is wage labour, whether for usd, btc, or gold dubloons <<< this is an iffy proposition.
mircea_popescu: "wage labour" on fain, on a voluntary basis (internet work, add links, vote on links, comments -> collect points -> take out btc) had average monthly payments well over 1 btc. AVERAGE.
mircea_popescu: plenty of people took out 100 btc in one month. back then this was you know, a few hundred bucks, "wage".
mircea_popescu: they probably sold it, of course, but if they did not, they have a lot more liquid btc than say goat.
mircea_popescu: or any of the other talented folk that got in early, got out early.
mircea_popescu: so wage for btc is not unlike wage for stock warrants, ie, typical start-up work.
mircea_popescu: in any case : i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. let them put a decade in, build themselve financially to the position where they can participate in a start-up, and intellectually to the position where they actually aren't quite AS fucktarded as the average 20something.
mircea_popescu: because no, i don't credit for a minute this theory whereby the 20yo male is the be-all end-all hope-and-pride of humanity.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin isn't college sports.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: did not feel the need to argue the point that no on in their right mind wants to stock shelves at the Canadian superstore at 2am <<< why should they get a choice ?
mircea_popescu: obviously if that's the only job they can get they AREN'T in their right mind. so why should their unright mind get an option as to what it wants to do ?
mircea_popescu: not everyone's brain works, even if everyone's brain THINKS it does.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: getting tired of the bellicose rhetoric << "why can't we all just get along" ?
mircea_popescu: fuck me, i dun wanna get along with idiots.
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of why or wherefore. i just do not wish to.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the one true source of trolling is exactly that. ironically enough, pankake was orignally selling himself as a troll for hire iirc.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << seems empty ?
assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: remember, the people who you call 'idiots' may be living a happier life than you
Anduck: so, are they idiots after all in that sense
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: im sure most of the cattle that i'm going to eat in my lifetime has also lived a pretty happy life,
mircea_popescu: according ot its own standards.
mircea_popescu: the notion that cattle gets to enact standards of happiness is beyond ridoinculous.
Anduck: sure but its funny that many really are happy
Anduck: they also know it
mircea_popescu: so good for em.
mircea_popescu: krugman prolly "really is an economist", at least if you ask him.
Anduck: xD
Anduck: oh, what do ya think of him
Anduck: well, his bitcoin speech
mircea_popescu: Anduck you mean http://trilema.com/2014/this-is-how-much-i-rule-today/ ?
assbot: This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Anduck: i guess i cant read that one
Anduck: paywall i see =(
mircea_popescu: funny lol. guy from the public went up to bernadotte, after wagram, "o, what did you think of the archduke's order of battle!"
mircea_popescu: i think it sucked, lol.
Anduck: hmm
Anduck: mircea_popescu: you know the new monero/bitcoin rpg stuff by rpietila?
mircea_popescu: vaguely.
Anduck: thoughts? will you attend
mircea_popescu: i will not attend.
Anduck: ok. as it's question hour: thoughts about bitcoin short term (1-2 years) valuation?
Anduck: it's good to see how long bitcoiners see these last years of development
mircea_popescu shrugs.
mircea_popescu: you really need to go read the logs.
Anduck: there's too much of logs.
Anduck: seriously, even you wouldn't
mircea_popescu: i actually do. i imagine you have nfi idea what wagram is, either, but this gives you no pause, because you're happy without, right ?
Anduck: not relevant but yes i've zero idea of what a wagram is
mircea_popescu: right. well, carry on but if possible quietly.
Anduck: hehe
Anduck: so you would value my speech here if i knew what a wagram is?
Anduck: good. as expected
Anduck: just remember: this is not how the world was built
mircea_popescu: the world was not built by ignorant twerps. your ideas about "the world" are about as well formed as your ideas about "wagram". both are meaningless symbols to you. about one, you arbitrarily delude yourself you have something to say.
Anduck: fine
Anduck: i don't agree but im fine with it
mircea_popescu: now stfu and go read the logs.
Anduck: i guess i already stated i won't read the logs because there's too much and i've got better ways to find out what i want to find out =)
Anduck: doesn't make me ignorant twerp, or does it?
mircea_popescu: yeah, it does.
RagnarDanneskjol: yes it does
Anduck: please, give me a third "yes it does"
mircea_popescu: kids, you know ? tries to engage its mother on its own terms (cries). mother doesn't go for it. kid... INSISTS!!! because totally, if you ignore everything and just repeat your thing... well.. that's happiness innit.
undata wonders whether gribble or freenode itself is lagging today
mircea_popescu: freenode's been having some issues.
undata: ah
Anduck: hopefully people here think clearly :)
mircea_popescu: !up sdffsd
mircea_popescu: punkbot status
punkbot: mircea_popescu: No pending deeds | Last bundle 1 hour and 9 minutes ago
mircea_popescu: so anyone know this Khalahan Henkh fellow ?
assbot: http://arrakis.cs.washington.edu
sdffsd: Mircea, I can't access mpex.co, what's going on?
assbot: Arrakis | The Operating System is the Control Plane
mircea_popescu: $proxies
empyex: mircea_popescu: Proxies: mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com mpex.ws Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
mircea_popescu: sdffsd nothing ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you have trouble with websites use the irc bots.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-many-ways-available-for-talking-to-mpex/
assbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
empyex: mircea_popescu: MPEx-Status: mpex.biz (116 milliseconds), mpex.bz (131 milliseconds), mpex.ws (350 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (1681 milliseconds), mpex.co (error)
empyex: mircea_popescu: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
mircea_popescu: awww
mircea_popescu: lol fucking idiot,
mircea_popescu: ::later tell sdffsd nobody ever told you tor is not actually safe ? lol.
kakobrekla: accidentally found another bitcoin web hosting http://bitcoinwebhosting.net
assbot: Bitcoin Dedicated Servers, DDoS Protection, Anonymous VPS
mircea_popescu: who;s running it ?
kakobrekla: 1712 Pioneer Avenue Ste 1774
kakobrekla: Cheyenne, Wyoming 82001
kakobrekla: ;;gettrust 1712 Pioneer Avenue Ste 1774
gribble: (gettrust [<sourcenick>] <destnick>) -- Get trust paths for <destnick>, starting from <sourcenick>. If <sourcenick> is not supplied, your own nick is used as the source. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Notes_about_gettrust
kakobrekla: as i suspected
mircea_popescu: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/thoughts-and-concerns-about-operation-onymous
assbot: Thoughts and Concerns about Operation Onymous | The Tor Blog
mircea_popescu: "Recently it was announced that a coalition of government agencies took control of many Tor hidden services. We were as surprised as most of you."
mircea_popescu: what the next line should be ? "we suck, and we're stepping down. sorry we couldn't do what we wanted to."
mircea_popescu: what the next line actually is ? " Unfortunately, we have very little information about how this was accomplished, but we do have some thoughts which we want to share."
mircea_popescu: something fundamentally broken with these people's heads.
mircea_popescu: what do they instead claim ? "Bitcoin deanonymization"
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's right. USG pseudo-secrecy agency used to fuck up idiots stupid enough to trust it now claims "it was bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: im sure it was, heh.
punkman: hah https://github.com/mapmeld/profanity65#profanity65
assbot: mapmeld/profanity65 · GitHub
mircea_popescu: "Your comment has been queued for moderation by site administrators and will be published after approval."
mircea_popescu: im sure it will be.
undata: punkman: that's incredible
undata: of note, "nsa-hugging"
undata: yes
mircea_popescu: sooo, buenos aires had this gay pride parade today.
mircea_popescu: they closed off a major street downtown (rivadavia) and put a scene up and everything in front of the cogress building
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the parade consisted of like... i dunno, five people ? six ?
mircea_popescu: i doubt total participation was 100 heads.
jurov: interesting, last year they report over 100 thousand ppl
mircea_popescu: i saw it with own eyes, about one guy every three minutes or something
mircea_popescu: maybe it's early.
jurov: aparently it was almost banned
mircea_popescu: i dunno how banned it'd be if the city closed down a major street for it.
jurov: looks like not really banned only asked a fee for the security
jurov: and there is something about public indecent conduct
jurov: En ese fallo se responsabilizo por delitos comunes exclusivamente a la Comunidad Homosexual Argentina (CHA) y se la condenó a pagar $450.000.- por un delito ocurrido en la vereda de la plaza donde se realizaba un acto.
mircea_popescu: CHA lol. teh buttfuck foundation! it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they have very right-wing ideas about dispensing justice here.
mircea_popescu: http://ctrlq.org/files/screenshots/6a630eefd44705f3ead4d3e81658fa9b.png <<< apparently they managed to lose some data
assbot: Digital Inspiration