tmsr - Log 2019-09-09

mircea_popescu: lobbes, the reconnection code is buggy. should create new socket rather than try to reuse old one.

mircea_popescu: patch it so it releases the file descriptor and reconnects properly.

lobbes: roger that. I'll take a dive into the code and see if I can figure out the socket related bits

asciilifeform: wait mircea_popescu , why can't be done ? seems like simple fix ( tho in my simplistic 'run on lappy & yank nic cord' reconnect test, never saw the state that lobbes discovered, so never implemented 'make new socket' )

asciilifeform: seems like all you need is to move ' sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) ' into 'connect()' .

asciilifeform would try, but does not know how to reproduce lobbes's boojum

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935080 << seems like finally lobbes photographed that legendary ufo, the 'socket alive, but wedged tcp' state.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 20:39:51 lobbes: here's the snippit of the bot logs for these logs >> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=CAX0

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935079 << prolly would not be bad idea to introduce log constrictor of some form (or using trinque's old method)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 20:35:48 lobbes: holy shit. it filled up nsabot.log too (2.4GB!!)

asciilifeform thinks 'at last, somebody finally exposed the horrid fleanode edge cases'

asciilifeform: oh lobbes , prolly oughta have set SO_REUSEADDR also. loox like i did not

asciilifeform: ( then in principle dun gotta make new. but oughta test. nao q , how to reproduce wedged sockets, other than by playing fleanode lotto ? )

asciilifeform: lobbes et al : another item i neglected to add, but really oughta have, is to log the actual ip of where connects. so can actually get some ~useful data re individual fleanode endpoints.

lobbes: asciilifeform: yeah, I also have no idea how to properly test the thing.. except wait for the right fleanode weather to come by

auctionbot: Buy order # 1057: item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following. Heard: 100mn from lobbes. Ending: 2019-09-12 20:26:41.479316 UTC (101 hours 9 mins)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:16:52 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:01:18 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.

diana_coman: lobbes: kept meaning to ask - how do you pronounce your surname?

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935086 << because the descriptors are maintained by the kernel not the userspace.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:04:14 asciilifeform: wait mircea_popescu , why can't be done ? seems like simple fix ( tho in my simplistic 'run on lappy & yank nic cord' reconnect test, never saw the state that lobbes discovered, so never implemented 'make new socket' )

mircea_popescu: and sure, you didn't implement. but you're ~supposed~ to implement.

mircea_popescu: otherwise it's "in all my driving i never had to back up, so... never put a reverse setting for the gearbox in"

mircea_popescu: though i grant, sock = socket.socket(socket. is such promising lingo as to utterly recommend python for african studies.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 20:35:48 lobbes: holy shit. it filled up nsabot.log too (2.4GB!!)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:11:25 asciilifeform: ( then in principle dun gotta make new. but oughta test. nao q , how to reproduce wedged sockets, other than by playing fleanode lotto ? )

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935096 << yes. esp if were going to immediately turn around ask everyone to run one, this "my one and only tru sole solitary i mate for life" approach is unfit.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:13:22 asciilifeform: lobbes et al : another item i neglected to add, but really oughta have, is to log the actual ip of where connects. so can actually get some ~useful data re individual fleanode endpoints.

mircea_popescu: (and yes, depondopopotamosity is parasitosis on knightly dedication, this tendency to "pick ONE great ruler and follow HIM")

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 03:56:22 ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.

mircea_popescu is actually excited at how well things are progressing, once we got rid of the dead weight.

mircea_popescu: imagine, all this flurry of exciting new development could have been occuring in 2017, if i had the sense to kick phf out on his rear in 2017, rather than let him sit his dumb ass on us for two years.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:11:01 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935112 << looks like stray regexp

mircea_popescu: all sorta chuck moores, "famous" and apparently ever so good and useful, just WAITING for you to give them a chance to strangle you.

diana_coman: this chapter of transactions reads like great fun anyway, what with "procuring smallpox" and asia-ticks

nicoleci: glad you liked the article. the medical transcriptions are especially interesting/gross

diana_coman: and yeah, this one has some gems in it; I think my favourite is "Some more quicksighted, imagin'd these two children were, as useless shades sent to Charon by any means that could be made use of."

nicoleci: diana_coman, currently im having issues accessing the shell. this may be a BingoBoingo question. i'll provide a better answer as to which step im stuck on when i get inside.

diana_coman: nicoleci: ok, but he'll prolly need the concrete barf/how it fails to help you out anyway.

diana_coman: nicoleci: alternatively for the functions.php iirc you should be able to edit it from the blog's dashboard too, there's and Edit option in there too.

mircea_popescu: if you're !!up'd and then self-voice... deedbot will devoice you ?

diana_coman: mircea_popescu: iirc this has been noted before/it's been around for quite a while, yes (though I thought it was fixed at some point); but I don't think she self-voiced at all.

mircea_popescu: well there's a * deedbot gives voice to nicoleci you prolly msiread as "removes voice" ?

diana_coman: pfff, didn't mean to trigger the bug on her, lol; sorry, nicoleci

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935114 << the "bene" is exactly how you'd think. The "vides" is actually "veedees". I usually tell people it 'rhymes with "diabetes"'

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-09 07:14:41 diana_coman: lobbes: kept meaning to ask - how do you pronounce your surname?

lobbes: It is Portuguese, though (as Mocky can attest) if you look at me all you'll see is anglo

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-09 08:41:36 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935128 - yes and probably reader-side ie not bot itself.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:11:01 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935112 << looks like stray regexp

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935170 - heh, so my reading of it was actually right (latin-based since I couldn't think of any valid English-based reading of it).

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 11:01:15 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935114 << the "bene" is exactly how you'd think. The "vides" is actually "veedees". I usually tell people it 'rhymes with "diabetes"'

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-09 07:14:41 diana_coman: lobbes: kept meaning to ask - how do you pronounce your surname?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 04:09:21 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935086 << because the descriptors are maintained by the kernel not the userspace.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:10:50 asciilifeform: oh lobbes , prolly oughta have set SO_REUSEADDR also. loox like i did not

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935119 << this is a deeper africanism than mircea_popescu suspects , and sadly not even limited to pythonisms. it comes from when hands grow out of arses, and folx write libs where the namespaces cannot be mixed, so yer stuck lib_a.foo lib_b.foo , cuz can't import a + b . seen it in adaisms , cl, elsewhere.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 04:19:39 mircea_popescu: though i grant, sock = socket.socket(socket. is such promising lingo as to utterly recommend python for african studies.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935124 << dunno re the other folx , but mine is set to 'lotto' atm, it uses fleanode's rotator. which is arguably unseemly, but i dun have a 'list of working fleanodes' atm. would like to obtain one. hence 'let's log ip'

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 04:30:09 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935096 << yes. esp if were going to immediately turn around ask everyone to run one, this "my one and only tru sole solitary i mate for life" approach is unfit.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935131 << for what in '17 ? for writing a working logger ? next, wat, will kick out trinque , so can have 'flurry of exciting, new development' of deedbot ?!

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:21:49 mircea_popescu: imagine, all this flurry of exciting new development could have been occuring in 2017, if i had the sense to kick phf out on his rear in 2017, rather than let him sit his dumb ass on us for two years.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935132 << this logic is appealing on surface, but recall that stalin ended up retrieving half-dead korolev, tupolev, et al, from gulag, when failed to find the imagined 'we dun have any irreplaceables here'(tm)(r) replacements .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:22:02 mircea_popescu: tolerance ~never~ fucking pays.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935137 << i gotta ask, what did the old astronomer do to mircea_popescu , to become this example ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:25:00 mircea_popescu: all sorta chuck moores, "famous" and apparently ever so good and useful, just WAITING for you to give them a chance to strangle you.

mircea_popescu: what, you thought it's an idle thing ? it isn't. being old means shit'll happen, you'll fail to follow and end up the example.

diana_coman: what I can't quite get in all this is why is asciilifeform fighting mircea_popescu's leucocite-qualities so much and at every occasion?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if nuffing counterposes leukocyte -- get leucosys.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'ratchet must ratchet, so spring -- must spring'(tm)(r)(mp)

diana_coman: asciilifeform: does it seem to you there's danger of "nothing counterposes leukocyte"? because uhm, I can't quite see it.

mircea_popescu deeply regrets having spent the earlier 2010s in a "oh, stallman, famous"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, titanic ACTUALLY sunk. didn't "write home tall tale of sunk"

asciilifeform: fwiw i'm not even convinced that the 'human mushroom' lied in the customary sense -- but instead, fungus, i.e. passed off what his bob becks gave him, as fact.

mircea_popescu: utter anal child argumentation, this, "oh, ispent years doing nothing because ANY MINUTE now"

mircea_popescu: can stretch that "any minuite" cheese into two fucking years, and whenever you put a limti o nit, "oh, you fucked them up, they were just about to"

mircea_popescu: i hope to god they were just about to take a large bite out of a steel girder at high speed.

mircea_popescu: needless to say, i am deeply unimpressed with "promising", "famous" and the whole rest of the fucking cohort of fiatardation.

mircea_popescu: so -- yeah, hang all the promising adult-children by their guts wrapped around their ballsac, and see what you can do with the rest.

mircea_popescu: stalin reference's not even wrong, afaik this was the historica conclusion of lenin-trotsky.

mircea_popescu: it'll solve all the world's problems regardless : either through zeroing, or else through solving.

mircea_popescu: as i tell the slavegirls "when they most need my support", "do or fucking die ; and i don't particularly care which the fuck it is."

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'wildmen attempt to tmsr' strange : 'Tauthon is a backwards-compatible fork of the Python 2.7.16 interpreter with new syntax, builtins, and libraries backported from Python 3.x. Python code and C-extensions targeting Python 2.7 or below are expected to run unmodified on Tauthon and produce the same output.'

asciilifeform: ( for what are needed these 'new syntax, ...' -- aside from 'embrace & extinguish'(tm) -- remains a mystery to asciilifeform )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: just nao read it, and lost what little appetite had

diana_coman: eh, that's pretty much the ~only sort of pies actually available :p

BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell nicoleci let me know what troubles you are having with your attempts to enter the shell. Also make sure you specify the right port.

BingoBoingo: Here they make these nice little hand pies from the cow. Gotta reserve the pies baked in cow to feed the fields.

bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934465 - from the point of view of achieving perfection - it definitely should be included. From the practical point of view -- noone would notice.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:42:14 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934219 << ok, but that's still no reason not to include it, you know ?

bvt: asciilifeform: the links to diana's sigs in your logotron post are wrong: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=aYq7

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 13:53:35 asciilifeform: shrysr: i wrote it, and am willing to answer whatever q re how it worx

bvt: ty; i wanted to download them via wget on remote machine, discovered bunch of .sig.1 files

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935258 - thank you! not at all a bad thing to have happening while I'm away, lol.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 13:53:35 asciilifeform: shrysr: i wrote it, and am willing to answer whatever q re how it worx

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i generally dun like to 'bring own vows to other's monastery' but wanted to try giving the fella sumthing to chew on. possibly is good idea .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 15:15:46 shrysr: have to bbl >>> this is getting more interesting by min though.

diana_coman: eh, he needs to start chewing, not like there isn't *what*; but yes, I see what you mean.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i actually dun know when/how precisely the fella tuned in. but will hazard a guess that it was because he had spark of 'hmm, these folx have working gears'. so i suspect best result with him might be to pour some kerosene on that fire. 'motivation from interest' is 9000x bigger fire than 'motivation from needs-to'.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: admittedly asciilifeform is not any kind of star pedagogue. but from own schooling, i found much moar memorable the lessons where 'and this is btw is also the tamper equation in hbomb!' than 'you Need To ... for exam!'

diana_coman: asciilifeform: for one thing it depends *whose* exam; for the other, the focus wasn't on "exam", no (doubt anyone would even "tune in" for... exam,lol); but anyway: another dose doesn't hurt, no.

bvt: asciilifeform: re SO_REUSEADDR - i don't see how it is applicable: as i understand errno 106=EISCONN the kernel believes that the socket is still connected (perhaps socket.timeout case in send()?); so if you proceed to connect without closing it, you'd get double connect on the same socket; and SO_REUSEADDR does not protect against this: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Zd3l

asciilifeform: bvt: i still do not know whether socket 'was not closed, but wedged' somehow (in which case proggy oughta be made such as to find out, and close asap) or in fact closed but on acct of the idjit zombie-by-default thing, not reusable

asciilifeform: as i currently understand, if one were to 1) SO_REUSEADDR + 2) force it closed before attempting any connect -- oughta cure

asciilifeform: also wtf, 'double connect on same socket', why the everliving fuck is this even a thing.

asciilifeform: what was the 'logic' inside the 'heads' that thought this to be permissible ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the tcp stack per se is retarded in this way, i expect it is also in cobol , fortran, etc, how not.

bvt: asciilifeform: i think closing would necessary (not done right now, as i can see); re proggy - nothing complicated http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=4XUj (merged two for convenience, so fd num will be different)

asciilifeform: i still dun grasp why os's tcp stack doesn't liquidate a socket known to be stone dead. but this i suppose is a q for the original perpetrators , when they're connected to 220v

mircea_popescu: prolly because they don't know how to do that without creating a race condition with the time-outs involved in knowing it's stone dead.

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935178 << you are among the very few who pronounce it correctly then! Most assume it is Spanish and pronounce the end bit like the end of "Rodriguez" (actually, it was a good way to screen for telemarketers back when I answered unknown phone numbers)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 11:03:33 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935170 - heh, so my reading of it was actually right (latin-based since I couldn't think of any valid English-based reading of it).

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-09 07:14:41 diana_coman: lobbes: kept meaning to ask - how do you pronounce your surname?

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935183 << this gives me some piece of mind, at least. Gonna do some digging tonight after f00d intake. Odd mystery

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 11:29:03 asciilifeform: ( the 1 in lobbes's latest vpatch is proper )

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935281 << bvt, would you be able to produce the vpatch? I would, but a) my knowledge of tcp stack / kernels / etc. is pretty much nil and b) I'm gearing up to focus 100% on mircea_popescu's latest mp-wp bot ask if I end up winning this auction.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 17:05:07 bvt: asciilifeform: i think closing would necessary (not done right now, as i can see); re proggy - nothing complicated http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=4XUj (merged two for convenience, so fd num will be different)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 17:22:25 asciilifeform: i still dun grasp why os's tcp stack doesn't liquidate a socket known to be stone dead. but this i suppose is a q for the original perpetrators , when they're connected to 220v

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:43:49 trinque: heh, this place needs a cartoonist so bad