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mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-10#1879396 << lmao ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-10 23:13 trinque: guess what, I'm an idjit and used sha vdiff, it appears! hashes are where mine differs from diana_coman
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-10#1879409 << honestly looks like usual net barfola, random broken broadcasts nad whatnot. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-10 23:36 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-10#1879331 -> I just looked and apparently I misspoke re number - that was counting all the UDP tests I made too, so no, overall not *that* many; at any rate, after the UDP test finished, the tcpdump kept on listening and I got this: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oonKc/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "Since there is no recording of the talk" << this is kinda unfortunate. just leave a laptop with the mic going behind, you know ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, from all my previous experience, that's more like an exercise in frustration afterwards
diana_coman: as the sound is horrible at best
mircea_popescu: hm
diana_coman: I also move quite a lot actually, I don't tend to sit by the laptop or anything of the sort
mircea_popescu: i usually get kinda ok ones. or got, before moving on to live dactilographist before moving on to not doing these anymore.
mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean, even half decent mic can capture a room.
diana_coman: but how clear; well, at any rate I can always try it again, won't hurt; I *did* consider it but remembered last time I cursed at such a "recording" and ...
diana_coman: basically the only time it worked fine it was with a mic attached and that was it
mircea_popescu: a lavaliere thing ?
diana_coman: yes
mircea_popescu: can get those too, ten bux or so, with a wireless connection.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how into this you are, but if you like it might as well gear up.
mircea_popescu: could also get yourself a hat put one of those car cameras on it.
mircea_popescu: GOPRO!!!
diana_coman: ahahaha
diana_coman: yeah, I did not even consider getting the gear myself - if they weren't so inept re org I'd have just ask the uni to provide, wtf
asciilifeform: speaking of optics, asciilifeform replaced the sad webcam thing bolted to the torture room iron pole with a modern-day 25megapixel thing. should make for some decent shots once i get that bolix...
diana_coman: but yeah, it can't be that much; anyways, it's done, not as if I'm running after making presentations, ugh;
mircea_popescu: england is ever more impressing in its somali quality.
mircea_popescu: the good fellows of 1600'd have been ever so appaled.
diana_coman: they probably...were already
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw 'lapel mic' was standard issue even at asciilifeform's uni in early 2000s. so i have nfi re the brits
mircea_popescu: 2000s went away, to be replaced by 2010s and soon enough 2020s.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman how many kids attended abouts ?
diana_coman: ~15-20
asciilifeform: in 500 seat hall, no way in hell is prof gonna be heard without mic ( the days of profs having 'operatic' voice as job qualification are long gone )
diana_coman: they were "supposed to be 40" I've been told afterwards
diana_coman: neah, it was a smallish room, certainly not a 500 seat hall
asciilifeform: aaah that'd explain why no mic
diana_coman: basically I could have a chat with them all and I know their faces already without any trouble
asciilifeform: i did not have many lectures like that
diana_coman: I'd call it more of a seminar at best
asciilifeform: possibly 'operating systems', was ~7 people
asciilifeform: ( started as coupla dozen , lol )
diana_coman: ahahah, that was "compilers" for us
asciilifeform: 'compilers' was 10 or so iirc
mircea_popescu: i can be heard just fine in 500 hall. and hallway. ha-HA!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman anyway, sounds like it worked pretty well, good for you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had a fella like that. used no mic. and would detonate a balloon with h2+o2 at the start of each session, to get folx awake
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that might be it re mic - while I can certainly screech if try, I usually don't; never had problems with audience not hearing me but the recording ugh
mircea_popescu: lol hardcore.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman honestly, the summary very acceptable, detailed and so on. just, you're missing out on a possible fanbase!
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I was expecting them to be even harder to get to so overall I'm quite pleased with it; now if at least one of them actually *does* something too as a result, that'd be already bonus
diana_coman: thanks!
diana_coman: oh, fanbase,pfuai ☟︎
mircea_popescu: nuca nu se stie niciodata.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, /me has settled on 221 as the perfect number to build "what is asym crypto" around. experimentally, NOBODY knows it's 13 * 17 nor manages to find out.
mircea_popescu: i dunno wtf is with it.
diana_coman: but uhm, 13 is the 6th number max one would try; with a calc at hand, it can't take more than 2 minutes
mircea_popescu: ah, im talking no calcs, at most napkin.
diana_coman: well, they obv had their laptops and whatnot, so yeah, I counted on "with calcs" hence larger
mircea_popescu: what did you end up using,
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 101 *103
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 10403
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 101 * 211
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 21311
mircea_popescu: that seems pretty good.
diana_coman: neah, something quite large, 2179*3167
mircea_popescu: a
diana_coman tends to err on the side of "no way are they going to kill my talk on THIS"
mircea_popescu: kek.
diana_coman: come to think of it re 221 I don't get it; even without a calc, still: 2 no because odd, 3 no because 2+2+1=5, 5 no because 1 at end, 7 no because 21, then 11, 11 no because 22, 1, 13 takes a bit perhaps but...
diana_coman: I kind of suspect it's either pressure on the spot or people not really used to mental maths
mircea_popescu: 13 is for some reason hard, and 221 encodes "eleven-ness" which meshes with "intelligent" people's dyslexia.
mircea_popescu: so they spend most of the time trying to fit 11 into it, then they lose it.
diana_coman: uhm, eleven-ness was 232 sort of thing i.e. ..ah, I see vs 223
mircea_popescu: it's just disproportionately hard. psychological benefit, what can you do.
diana_coman: that yes
diana_coman: it certainly is the first "jump"
mircea_popescu: (yes, i'm kinda fishing for someone to go "it's 13 x 17 and you know, you're cheating by picking these, illustrating human stupidity not objective hardness".)
diana_coman: heh
mircea_popescu: that person, could be sent to qatar, as it were.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman hey, if you don't ask one million morons "how about you..." ...
diana_coman: eulora-style, "get lucky"
BingoBoingo: And so the Peruana has returned from from Argentina with stories of "Todo es mas linda ahí, hay subte..."
BingoBoingo: Entonces "Las computadoras pesan mucha y no hay buen lugares por las computadoras en Argentina"
BingoBoingo: And today I learned there is a "Highland" in Indiana too
mircea_popescu: keks.
mircea_popescu: mas lindo eh
asciilifeform actually agrees there, buenosaires arch is palpably moar 'white man' than in BingoBoingostan imho. 'while supplies last'.
asciilifeform: ( iirc mircea_popescu had a photo of argentine orc clothesline slowly pulling the nose off a gargoyle or sumthing to that effect )
BingoBoingo: Anyways, now I have to explain she was seeing Argentina's version of my barrio trying to compensate for its lack of beach, while Argentina in general is more like her barrio.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Barrio Carrasco where the expo was is considerably in the White Suburban style. Drive-thrus and parking lots everywhere
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the architecture here has its own charm.
BingoBoingo: Kinda like Fallout happened IRL and here's this city on the edge of the world the missed out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'white man arch' is pointedly not 'suburban drivethrough', but is e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/wma.jpg
BingoBoingo: There's entire streets in barrio sur and Palermo built like that
asciilifeform: i saw a coupla also
BingoBoingo: Except the A/A on the balconito would be Panavox
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform's traditional heuristic is 'what % of city loox like that'
asciilifeform: ( in usa, typically 0 )
BingoBoingo: During your trip we didn't have much occasion to venture into the AfroUruguayo barro or the old city
asciilifeform: they surrendered their decent arch to 'afro' ?!
asciilifeform: for shame.
BingoBoingo: Nah, they built that arch in designated afro barrio from the start
BingoBoingo: It lacks beach and thusly gets to stay afro barrio
BingoBoingo: Then in the center of most barrios there's a historical core surviving from when the barrios were wee little towns
asciilifeform: 'panavox' >> lol!! durasell!
asciilifeform: parasonic!
BingoBoingo: But most everything outside of this photo's coverage is post 1920's construction, and post 1950's especially http://bingology.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/DAG/1.jpg
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yea i saw 0 from that tower that passed isCivilized()
asciilifeform: maybe half a church, somewhere
asciilifeform: it beats the shit out of cr, seems like, tho, ~errything mircea_popescu posted outside of own house looked iirc like ~africa
BingoBoingo: The churches are how you evaluate whether a barrio was once a town or if it is a new espansion favela
asciilifeform: far as asciilifeform goes, if it dun have a carriage gate built to 18th c spec, it's favela
BingoBoingo: There's quite of few of those within a couple blocks of the habitation unit
asciilifeform: laugh if ya like, but i can even distinguish 'correct' bldgs by... smell
asciilifeform: they have a smell ( typically gotta walk in the front gate, but sometimes can even test right outside )
BingoBoingo: What are you smelling for or against?
asciilifeform: for
asciilifeform: but can't put finger on precisely what.
asciilifeform: when i was in timis i walked around and, among other things... smelled the houses. it passed litmus. ( even tho last time i smelled the magic smell was 25y ago ! )
asciilifeform: i dun know precisely what is in it, prolly aging plaster, wood, flats fulla old b00kz..
asciilifeform: i dun think there's anywhere in e.g. usa where you could smell it, even if it were there you couldn't pick it up past the exhaust gas and garbage
BingoBoingo: Well, the big stylstic difference between new and old country is the lack of pitch on these roofs
asciilifeform: i bet pitch also in that cocktail.
BingoBoingo: I mean as in angle, no way the local homes could take much snow
asciilifeform: oh hm
asciilifeform: afaik it dun snow in BingoBoingostan tho
BingoBoingo: It doesn't snow here often
BingoBoingo: There's a couple places near the Brasilero border that do see the occasional pulgada of the white stuff
asciilifeform bbl,meat
mircea_popescu: mold lol.
BingoBoingo: But civilized mold!
asciilifeform spent yrs in mold-infested flats in usa, these smelled nuffing at all like civilization at any point
mircea_popescu: ah, but there's such a thing as a noble mold.
asciilifeform: roquefort penicillum , if you will, for buildings ? i can picture.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: many of such exist. hence caciocavallo caves and so on.
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=102 << Bimbo.Club -- TMSR Log Summary - 11/19/2018
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/after-a-weekend-in-hiding-macron-emerges-from-his-hole-to-piss-people-off-again/ << Qntra -- After A Weekend In Hiding Macron Emerges From His Hole To Piss People Off Again
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/congo-ebola-outbreak-continues-spreading/ << Qntra -- Congo Ebola Outbreak Continues Spreading
trinque: where is the environmentalist outcry for nuking the congo, I ask. ☟︎
asciilifeform: a+++ q
asciilifeform: ( and finally a 'killer app' for that airburst neutron-optimized warhead.. )
asciilifeform: possibly tricky from technical pov, tho, you dun wanna disperse
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the daily luls, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Xmj4x/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: if it's not evident by now, there's pretty strong statistical correlation between loud, outspoken, militant idiocy and skin tone.
mircea_popescu: mulatto chicks as a fenotype provide the members of the remarkable stupid chick group almost exclusively.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from personal observation -- seems that they're the pantsuit vanguard
mircea_popescu: do you recall the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759568 discussion ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
asciilifeform: aha?
mircea_popescu: i am by now well persuaded that this is a place where it ~didn't~ happen.
asciilifeform: plox to expand?
mircea_popescu: specifically, the ~notion~, bereft of any meat, as a skeletal abstraction only, that "mixing improves overal outcomes" ran into the reality that the only available alternative to white man's culture is nation-of-africa powered militant idiocy.
mircea_popescu: ie, industrialization worked because it's a good idea ~and also~ because there was coal AND iron available superficially. and where the latter not satisfied, such as aztec empire, not worked.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile multiculturalism failed not on the merits of the idea, but because there is no iron whatsoever to be had. it's either white man culture or stupidity highway.
mircea_popescu: and in this sense, the opponents of multiculturalism are deeply fucktarded (as the proponents see them) in attempting to argue the merits.
asciilifeform: where wouldja put the confucian rice kingdoms in this scheme ?
mircea_popescu: the merits don't matter, the problem is that literally, there.is.nothing.else.possible.
mircea_popescu: in the failures.
mircea_popescu: china exists briefly today for copying white man culture.
mircea_popescu: at no other point did it exist to any degree.
mircea_popescu: a large, bureaucratic state existed before -- incas had it too. it is not a success just because it gets a lot of cows to be docile.
asciilifeform: from my perch seems like the rice people are pretty good at copying the irons while discarding the derrida.
mircea_popescu: it becomes a success when "the iron! my god, the iron!" say the locals upon beholding the franks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in exactly the sense snow you piss on "is pretty good at copying the color while discarding the wetness".
mircea_popescu: coincidence of coincidentals.
asciilifeform: betcha that's exactly what montezuma said 'you got cannon, yea whatever, coincidence of coincidentals'
mircea_popescu: yes. but montezuma has no idea what he's talking about.
mircea_popescu: if you'd be right, we'd have discovered a #trilema not twice the size (as yellow man pop vs white man pop) but >20 times the size (because hey, efficiency, yes ?). and by size i do not mean headcount.
mircea_popescu: where's it ?
asciilifeform: 'where are the rembrandts' eh
mircea_popescu: seems to me they're mining our coin. just like before.
asciilifeform: entirely possible, given available data
mircea_popescu could certainly be wrong ; but it certainly couldn't be the case that i'd be wrong in such a way "as nobody could ever know".
asciilifeform: ( but also possible that asian trilema is in fact 50x bigger and reading and laughing at the lot of us as we speak )
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta like it did in 1500s
mircea_popescu: and what's the eggcartons made out of, that they stapled to their walls, so we don't hear the trills ?
asciilifeform: hieroglyphosphere is pretty opaque to the unarmed euro eye.
mircea_popescu: yet there WAS a guy translating trilema for his chinese friends
mircea_popescu: and by "a guy" i mean a whole community on a forum somewhere.
asciilifeform: all i can add , is that i get a coupla MB of phuctor traffic from cn on a typical day.
mircea_popescu: none of these 50x population feel pete_d-like enough to come here and daze us with their stolen fare ?
asciilifeform: none of'em.
asciilifeform: yet they're reading.
mircea_popescu: isn't this by now a sort of "evolution never happened" ?
asciilifeform: nah it's moar of a 'planet x' affair.
mircea_popescu: "it's not nuclear force, it's phlogiston i'm telling you" ?
mircea_popescu: seems to be an alternative theory pretty badly handicapped by available data/experience.
asciilifeform: !#s silence of sirens
a111: 2 results for "silence of sirens", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=silence%20of%20sirens
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855089 < ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 20:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855078 << trickier item. recall 'the song of the sirens, some have escaped, but their silence -- no one' . how to deal with 'but ~was~ it in the l0gz'.
mircea_popescu: but these'd not be sirens. see, this is the problem, we're not talking "lone mystical creature". if ants had nuclear weapons, ants or no ants we'd have found out by now.
mircea_popescu: even if not necessarily found out by interrogating ant.
asciilifeform: ants prolly not, but for all i know, ~bees~ do. ( 'mysterious' fungus wiping out colonies could very well be 'bee nuke', spread 'deliberately', supposing they could... )
mircea_popescu: i am not talking "Bee nuke". i am talking nuke, the actual physical item as reality permits.
asciilifeform: the no
asciilifeform: *then
mircea_popescu: i'm sure there's 500000 teenaged boys all over nation of africa having "alt mp". heck, nicoleci found one.
asciilifeform: tho i'll point out that cn nuke is half century old.
mircea_popescu: and a ru copy.
mircea_popescu: russians almost count as white :D
asciilifeform: by same token as ru nuke is ameri-copy
asciilifeform: devil is always in the implementation details.
mircea_popescu: i am unconvinced.
asciilifeform: witness, for instance, FG schems published for 2 yrs (!) as of , what, last week, still no known copies
mircea_popescu: see, here's how it is : two white man tribes, consisting of "the germans that stayed home" and "the germans that went over ocean" finally got together and built nuke, at the time highest mankind achievement.
mircea_popescu: then ~group~ of wanna-be german rus' tribe copied the item. AS A GROUP.
mircea_popescu: then ~lone man~ of wanna-be rus' yellow man copied item. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: very different copying.
mircea_popescu: russkis understood what it is they;'re copying and why. chinese -- neve rdid. in this sense, chinese copied nuke like russians copied ics. ☟︎
asciilifeform: btw funnily enuff , the 'germans who sailed' ended up having to copy the (droppable) fusion n00k, rather than vice versa.
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: ( usa's item , recall, used liquid H2 and was building-sized loltron )
mircea_popescu: hence my comment.
mircea_popescu: whereas recall your cries of "chinese own ... windows fab stack" ? well ?
mircea_popescu: the difference is markedly there.
asciilifeform: that there's actually the best evidence for mircea_popescu's version
asciilifeform: i'm unequipped to say whether cn 'understood nuke', but the apparent total absence of indigenous cpu arch does tell tales
mircea_popescu: and more generally, this "if birds were clouds, there'd be winds of shit" type of argument in insescapable.
mircea_popescu: "what if" is not statically typed.
asciilifeform: jp (1890-1945) was arguably better example. went from 'wooden civ' to, e.g., world's biggest+fastest battleship, h2o2-powered submarine, all sortsa goodies that quite solidly demonstrated 'yes first copied, then grasped, white man's tech' , until nailed by confederacy of anglodunces
asciilifeform: ( and then ~replay~, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1876942 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:38 asciilifeform: jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
mircea_popescu: japan is certainly reserved case of non-white white men. toyota 1970s takeover of auto industry imo even better example than their (certainly present, and certainly respectable 1880-1920 marine innovations)
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu even had a piece on subj, re 'honour culture'
mircea_popescu: possibly applies, yes.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough though, to the same sort of casual examination that passes semites (eg, jews) for "white", japanese also pass.
asciilifeform not entirely unbiased observer, somewhat of jp aficionado for many yrs, tho grasp of lang is still on ~1st-grader level
asciilifeform: hieroglyphs are a bitch.
mircea_popescu: imagine if they didn't end up with broken alphabet, like morons.
asciilifeform: worse
mircea_popescu: hm ?
asciilifeform: they have not 1 but ~2~ working alphabets. and repeatedly tried to phase out hieros, most recently under mcarthur
mircea_popescu: any alphabet > octetsize is broken by that very fact.
asciilifeform: but so far only managed to cut down the stroke #
mircea_popescu: they shoulda had ascii, ended up with unicode
mircea_popescu: 80iq penalty.
mircea_popescu: they ~deserved~ the wiping out by confederacy of proper alphabet dunces. to make the point forever fucking plain -- IF YOU UNICODE, you will die for it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hiragana has 46 symbols.
mircea_popescu: "nothing else you do right can ever fix that one thing you did wrong. nothing."
asciilifeform has the kbd even.
asciilifeform: they 'fixed' in the 9th century . problem as usual is the entrenched mass of 'i had to hieroglyph, so let the son also'
mircea_popescu: afaik that's not free stganding
asciilifeform: freestanding. one can write the whole lang in it.
asciilifeform: but 'wouldn't do, not for troo scholar' (tm)
mircea_popescu: i dunno, afaik it's how they write particles and things, but as an aid to the idiotic uselesness of "proper" writing, not by itself.
mircea_popescu not subj expert.
asciilifeform: mcarthur tried to ban hieroglyphs, it went nowhere, sorta how peter I was able to cut the 30 redundant greek chars from ru alphabet, but still left 6 or so turds
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in 'standard' jp, they use hiragana as adjunct to the sadglyphs, yes
asciilifeform: but for text entry they have hiragana kbd, given as 100% of lang can be coded in it, the hieroglyph desk-sized lolkeyboard of 1900s fame vanished with introduction of microcomp
mircea_popescu: well, what are we talking about ? "that they could have" ? of fucking course could have.
asciilifeform: for e.g. children's books, they already encode in 100% 46.
asciilifeform: so it's rather different situation than cn, which actually escaped inventing alphabet for 5000yrs
mircea_popescu: i suppose.
asciilifeform: jp could cancel hieroglyphs tonight, if (dunno) emperor is put back on throne and wants to peter-the-great.
asciilifeform: i've spoken with jp folk, they see the notion as roughly similar to how anglos see orlol's phonetic alphabet thing
asciilifeform: 'how will we test for idiocy then'
BingoBoingo: !!pay-invoice mats 1
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TOxHd/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: !!v 9D006D7D56A17C1EAF29DB5AC920AD6D6EAB7D0369C8A5BB0119B709503E1B7B
deedbot: BingoBoingo paid mats invoice 1
mircea_popescu: yeah, right, "how will females test for fitness", i gotta wear italian pagliacci pointed shoes and generally http://trilema.com/2016/the-%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81-bdsm-party/#footnote_0_68337
mircea_popescu: because totally, that's what i'm going to spend my resources on. passing tests the females came up with.
mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck ?!
asciilifeform: 'qwerty problem'
mircea_popescu: o look, it's raining these now. check this one out : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dY5we/?raw=true
asciilifeform: lol complete with mystery uniturds
mircea_popescu: chicks as white as the http://trilema.com/2016/tangerine/#selection-77.0-77.504 wonder.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not reading all that, but i also don't believe i need to.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879580 << i don't get it, why would you nuke it ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 17:06 trinque: where is the environmentalist outcry for nuking the congo, I ask.
asciilifeform: speaking of virology, did mircea_popescu ever do piece on polio ?
asciilifeform: ( likbez : man is the only known reservoir. and spread in shit. prior to mid 20th c, vanishingly rare, cuz damn near errybody inoculated through exposure to ~some~ liquishit in water. then suddenly ~0 shit-eating, among the industrial city folx, and thing appears on epidemiological map )
mircea_popescu: never did, no. tho during wartime romania it was THE luxury.
mircea_popescu: "get kids polio vaccination"
trinque: I'll admit it was a knee-jerk reaction to the zombie bioreactor. Possibly there are much better ways to shut it down.
asciilifeform currently in a bout of rage re the retardation of html, where formatting a kindergarten-level equation takes hrs and still dun satisfy
asciilifeform: i refuse to use bitmaps for the matholade in ffa, cuz retarded ( not searchable + looks like shit on 3 out of 4 people's displays no matter what you do )
asciilifeform: so tryin' to stick as close as can be to plain ascii, as seen in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2753#selection-1213.75-1299.2
asciilifeform: but items like floor/ceiling, fractions, etc still look like rubbish
asciilifeform: e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/uglymaths.html ☟︎
asciilifeform: if anybody knows how to make these prettier without resorting to bitmapisms or javascript, or ~anything~ platformistic, plox to write in
asciilifeform: ( before suggest 'mathml' -- asciilifeform dun have a browser which displays it, and suspects that nobody here does either )
asciilifeform: ^ mircea_popescu , ben_vulpes , trinque , bvt , any serious wwwists in audience, plox to chime in ^
trinque: eh, not like I'm *recommending* it, but do you have something that'll grunt out an SVG?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. a sec.
asciilifeform: considered svg. but text-based browsers afaik dun eat it.
asciilifeform: ( whereas http://www.loper-os.org/pub/uglymaths.html actually displays in, e.g., lynx, just fine )
trinque: right
asciilifeform: or, hrm, still loses the floor()
mircea_popescu: ima fix it for you, but it will take longert than a moment because ima take the opportunity to write trilema article explain how to use html for maffs.
asciilifeform: aite, a++++
asciilifeform: i'm not in terrible hurry
asciilifeform: i considered to use ansi drawing chars for the floor, that'd prolly do it
asciilifeform: came up entirely empty when looked for how to make the parens appropriate height tho.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-html-math/#selection-49.0-233.1 << satisfactory ?
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BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Also up for renewal are Mocky and nicoleci's shared hosting instances which you paid through December ☟︎
mircea_popescu: get the bimbo anotehr year plox. i dun recall what the deal was with mocky right off, ima have to dig it up
BingoBoingo: Also there's the S.MG testing server currently billed monthly, how long term are you thinking with http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-november-2018-statement/#footnote_0_81604
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it turns to rubbish in 'lynx'
asciilifeform: try it
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nfi. diana_coman what are we doing here ?
asciilifeform: as for the parens, floor, etc, ugh, i dun want'em wide, i want'em ~tall~
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how would this work in terminal ? it's supposed to be a html thing, graphical browser.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879722 variant actually displays in terminal ( sans the 'floor' ), try it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 18:43 asciilifeform: e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/uglymaths.html
mircea_popescu: keks ok.
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise what you want was "some kind of notation that works in terminal and gui equally".
asciilifeform: i was going for 'keeps being readable in lynx like the prev chapters'
asciilifeform: otherwise prolly would've thrown in the towel and gone to bitmapped latex outputs
asciilifeform: which are imho sadder
mircea_popescu: im not aware there's a way to make terminal-html-math. not even tex does that.
asciilifeform: i'd like to show that moderately maffs-heavy bl0gps0t is possible without bitmapism, possibly bridge too far
mircea_popescu: though there was a lulzy "extended" keyset back in the 80s to "do it". failed also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a 'mathsml' thing, but seems to require js, browsers briefly had and then dropped support
asciilifeform: 'but hey we have smiling turd glyphs nao!'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the speciffic items discussed are not possible to render alphabetically, and for the reasons stated : fraction lines are not a character etc.
asciilifeform: ~those~ , oddly enuff, i had 0prob with
asciilifeform: ( used 'longstroke' uniturd, which incidentally lynx Does Right Thing with and turns into multiple short - )
mircea_popescu: keks
mircea_popescu: you're in the swamp of perdition over there,\
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're happy with fixwidth font and "works in terminal" i also don't see your problem, wrap in <pre> tags and so something like http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4NHpp/?raw=true ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i actually started with that. and tempted to return to it.
mircea_popescu: it'll render fine in lynx and on html browser too, you lose out on pixel alligns and sizes and things, but what can you do.
mircea_popescu: well, one or the other. there's no way to magic away the difference between gfx browser and fixwidth term.
asciilifeform: the annoying bit is that in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2238 i was able to make html do a very close approx to the customary formatting.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-html-math/ << Trilema -- How to html math ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: was thinking it might be possible to somehow get this with ch14.
mircea_popescu: where, specifically ? http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2238#selection-997.5-1009.4 ? the sup/sub only work if you have simple exponents.
asciilifeform: ( if there existed a 'height' attribute for font, it would entirely solve. but i have not turned up any such thing existing. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fortunately i dun have any complex subexpressions in exponents anywhere in ffa notebook.
asciilifeform: only items like a - b etc
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "not turned up" lol. it's in the article i just linked you.
asciilifeform: that ain't height-only!
asciilifeform: i dun want'em ~wide~
asciilifeform: the parens, floor, should simply be ~tall~.
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, i don't think they implemented arbitrary shearing of fonts.
mircea_popescu: though in fairness, while the thickness displayed is exaggerated, what you do by hand is not SIMPLY shear it. you also thicken it some.
asciilifeform: some yes
mircea_popescu: yes well. none of this works with a fixwidth display. not that i'm against having font scaling separate by heigh and width, but currently, it dun exist.
mircea_popescu: now, if you want "html maths", they're in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879782 ; if you want fixwidth terminal math, it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879777 ; if you want "just like by hand", it'll be either latex or yeah, a photograph of your having done it by hand / a bitmap of some mechanized version thereof. dunno that there's a way out of this. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 20:19 feedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-html-math/ << Trilema -- How to html math ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 20:18 mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're happy with fixwidth font and "works in terminal" i also don't see your problem, wrap in <pre> tags and so something like http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4NHpp/?raw=true
asciilifeform: there's various ways, of varying degree of ugly, currently shitting out a hybrid variant
asciilifeform: will post for the laughter and derision of audience shortly
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/uglymaths2.html
asciilifeform: ( still sad parens, but imho less outlandishly eye-bleeding than the mega-font variant ; lynx-friendly 'floor' )
mircea_popescu: hye, if you're happy...
mircea_popescu: certainly readable.
asciilifeform: that's what it'll be then.
asciilifeform: unless 1 of the experts chimes in today with unexpected pill.
mircea_popescu: might as well use wall of ( 3 tall if you're doing wall of |
asciilifeform: yea idea
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: i think it prolly makes it more readable, and also has the merit of making the ad-hockery less ad-hockish/more rulebased.
asciilifeform: it does
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so let's smg another month an' see how cuntoo goes.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sounds like a plan
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/uglymaths3.html for thread-completeness.
asciilifeform bbl,teatime
mircea_popescu: very much not html in any sense, but what can you do.
phf: asciilifeform: you can also use console maxima to fixed width layout formulas for you
asciilifeform: phf: i fucking hate ------------'s
phf: oh, i don't know what you guys achieved in html mode, because i'm looking at the result in lynx
asciilifeform: and also hate 'flying' exponents that make simple expression stand 40fuckingrows tall
asciilifeform bbl forrealz
mircea_popescu: keks
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mircea_popescu: diana_coman on meditation, the innovation/subversion distinction is quite well founded.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, thanks!
mircea_popescu: also leaves very little usable difference between subversion and "inclusion".
diana_coman: well yes, I don't see how can "inclusion" happen without subversion, no
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: nor what other incentive is there, for either, besides the "moron still wants to live and spawn".
diana_coman: I think it's simply a matter of effort-avoidance, what; i.e. change aka innovation is always "hard" so by consensus subversion will be attempted until ~all possible attempts are exhausted, sort of thing
mircea_popescu: these also not sifferent.
diana_coman: right
mircea_popescu: amusingly, spanish (which is terrible re cognates btw, it fails to distinguish between expecting [esperar] and hoping [esperancia] and so on) uses the same word for both "it's expensive" (cuesta mucho) and "i find it difficult" ("me cuesta").
mircea_popescu: oh, while on it : if any english speaker ever wondered where "arena" comes from,
mircea_popescu: why... it's sand, in spanish.
mircea_popescu: but back to the point : the only sort whom "los cuesta" to be thinking is the sort that really has no business here.
diana_coman: do they also use "cuesta mucho" for "it's not fair"? it'd be quite on point at least from what I can tell
diana_coman: since asciilifeform was asking re what does "it's not fair" mean - from what I can tell, precisely that: if one finds it hard, then it's not fair
mircea_popescu: not afaik. tho honestly the idiocy of "equity" as practiced in common law / intuited by the runts in every litter + their enablers is such monumental nonsense as i don't expect can be readily unpacked. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> do they also use "cuesta mucho" for "it's not fair"? it'd be quite on point at least from what I can tell << Around here they usually bitch about their derechos
diana_coman: I can see it easily; it's a human right to have it easy in whatever definition of easy one might have floating by
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, so that Arenal area in CR is meant as...sands/sandy or what?
BingoBoingo: Then there's the Falta de Respecto y las otras faltas
mircea_popescu: sandy volcano yes. ☟︎
diana_coman: it always sounded rather...menacingly/cold to me, lol; ash != sand I'd say
mircea_popescu: anyway, works ad interim as a fine heuristic. whosoever is preoccupied with fairness can be readily discarded as intellectually useless. it's either fairness or correctness, and all the rest of http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/ flows necessarily.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman sand, microcrystalline obsydian.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta nitpick : quartz ( plain old sio2 ) != obsidian. in the latter, the volcanic ash dun simply colour it black, but gives crystal lattice a shear plane ( so you get that delish cutting edge the stone age folx like )
mircea_popescu: right. lotta very sharp little bits of glass.
asciilifeform: pretty hard to get a good cutting edge from plain sio2 ( try it some time ). with glass ( i.e. with na as well as si & o ) you get the requisite shear. so cuts.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879840 << i suspect that it prolly unpacks ok if seen through lens of 'wooden civ' peasant, where 'errybody is roughly same, working same shit soil, so oughta have ~same harvest' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 21:44 mircea_popescu: not afaik. tho honestly the idiocy of "equity" as practiced in common law / intuited by the runts in every litter + their enablers is such monumental nonsense as i don't expect can be readily unpacked.
asciilifeform: ( and not simply peasants, but serfs, i.e. land gets mortmain'd by master, so no accum )
mircea_popescu: dude. "microcrystalline obsydian". it's like silica glass, except volcano-made. it has planes and everything. what are you talking about ?
asciilifeform: 1000+yrs of уравниловка (btw how do we say that in ro? i'd like to know) dun wear off so quickly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: obsidian exactly glass
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig thread was re beach sand, nitpick strictly there
mircea_popescu: what the fuck beach, arenal is a volcano.
mircea_popescu: hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879845 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 21:48 mircea_popescu: sandy volcano yes.
asciilifeform: and does the sand there look exactly like the ordinary ?
asciilifeform: ( does mircea_popescu have pic ? i've never seen volcanic sand close up )
mircea_popescu: it looks exactly like microcrystalline obsydian roflmao omg.
mircea_popescu: well so come here some time, can go for a walk in it.
mircea_popescu: crunches under feet with distinct sound, too.
asciilifeform: i bet it's same sound as the particulate from the omnipresent powdered car windshields over here lol
mircea_popescu: more like "walking on sandpaper"
asciilifeform: but yes will be interesting to walk in.
asciilifeform pictures an alt-planet where http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759568 scenario but with ~semiconducting~ doped volcanic sands... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
asciilifeform: could've had transistor in 1700s-level, conceivably
asciilifeform: ( a la wootz -- i.e. 'we have nfi how this worx but here it is' )
mircea_popescu: i dunno that civ which can't make si ball can use pre-provided microscopic multers or w/e. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for good chunk of later 1800s folx were using 'accidental' semiconductor ( ever built 'crystal radio' ? ) , but it sucked
asciilifeform: picture if didn't suck.
mircea_popescu: point in case, programmable ants available since forever, we've yet to see ant-automation natives.
mircea_popescu: what, like growth of galena crystals guarded over by roc bird like in arab tales ?
mircea_popescu: "These factors together worked to bring the actual NATO oil need under its allocation for the first time in the forty years since that allocation exists, and otherwise for the first time since the Industrial Revolution some centuries ago. It's really an incredible, history bending first, this" << http://trilema.com/2015/oil-theory/#selection-61.102-61.394
mircea_popescu: speaking of "when world ended", this 2014-2015 winter might actually be the best not-after-this date
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik beekeeping is closest thing we've got to 'ant automation'
asciilifeform: re: petrowank : asciilifeform also not expert, but last i recall arabs were 'peaked' while ru ramping for 50+y and onwards; hence the pantsuit's perennial interest in picking up last reich's torch and 'spreading demoocracy' there
asciilifeform: ( which is why icbm complex is just as essential 'petro tech' as the drill ! )
asciilifeform: ( per old thread formulation , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-24#933189 + http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-24#933192 ) ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:59 asciilifeform: without sovereignty, 'your' tractor - isn't yours. it belongs (along with your starfish) to the big boys.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879874 << multers no , rectifiers -- yes ( diode was ~the~ mega-discovery, rather than transistor as commonly thought -- the latter is small variation on the former ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 22:29 mircea_popescu: i dunno that civ which can't make si ball can use pre-provided microscopic multers or w/e.
asciilifeform: consider early age of radio, with 'coherer' -- tube of iron filings , nobody had any idea how worked until 1980s (!) when somebody bothered to look and found that yes feo2 semiconducts
asciilifeform: ( semiconducts and then shorts and welds solid at the juncture! hence the early radiotelegraph's little hammer that whacked the tube each time it went conductive )
asciilifeform was obsessed with the item as a boy, and went and... built. but unsurprisingly was unable to come up with the kilowatt spark gap horror that'd actually make circuit close even 1ce
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/UopiX >> 'GNU inetutils <= 1.9.4 telnet.c multiple overflows'
asciilifeform: in older lulz, 1d 18h left on the https://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-MacIvory-model-3-8-MW-in-an-Apple-Quadra-650-80-MB-9-GB-Genera-8-3/113428507092 auction; i'ma bid, and if can get for under 5 , will have the thing xray tomographied ( sadly i have a quite finite budget presently for the proj ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf et al ^
mircea_popescu: btw, in case anyone's pissed off at mozilla "download firefox" inanity, the list is here : https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which inanity ?
asciilifeform presently using 1 built from sores aeons ago..
mircea_popescu: there's this pantsuit trend of making websites from playdo. 0 levers, 0 anything, thick bright colors.
mircea_popescu: annoying as all fuck, like special ed.
asciilifeform: aah y'mean the 'we know your os, and of course it's winblowz, here have a .exe' thing ?
mircea_popescu: just look at it. fucking offensive bs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly the proggy ~itself~ is likethat nao. 'special ed'. nfi why you'd want recent ver.
mircea_popescu: https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/59.0b9/linux-x86_64/en-US/firefox-59.0b9.tar.bz2.asc << in other lulz, they even have sigs.
asciilifeform: yea lol even linus, rms et al, etc. have ceremonial sigs.
asciilifeform: ( they aint got vtronics, so nfi what if anyffing their sig ~means~ )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just making a copy of their historical offerings.
asciilifeform: a
asciilifeform: i dun recall whether trinque froze the sores of that thing
asciilifeform: i would say 'let's' but not equipped to say what was 'last good sores', near as i can tell the thing has sucked for as long as existed
asciilifeform: btw afaik binariola ff won't run on musltronic linuxen, it (unsurprise) demands dyn libcism
trinque: asciilifeform: I've built ff on musl with various rando's patches, have one running currently
asciilifeform: oh neato
asciilifeform: prolly will end up the de-facto graphic browser
asciilifeform: afaik none else is known to be buildable from sores at all
asciilifeform tried over yrs and repeatedly failed with 'chrome'
asciilifeform: it dun build even on ordinary gentoo, last i knew
asciilifeform: ( not even talking of hygiene, but of simple 'can build?' )
mircea_popescu: eh, certainly google's thing isn't on the list.
asciilifeform: it dun make even the most elementary cut.
mircea_popescu: anyway, afaik ff past 40 or so can't even run w/o gtk3. which iirc also not on list.
asciilifeform: right, is where mine stopped
asciilifeform: ( gtk3 is on asciilifeform's published gentoo-banhammer roster )
mircea_popescu: that said, a svg-centric (as per prev log discussion) x-only (no gnome/kde/whatever bs) browser will prolly have to be written anyway.
asciilifeform: tbf i have utterly nfi why thing even needs gtk at all
asciilifeform: ( for 'back' button ?!! )
mircea_popescu: not a matter of needs. it's fair it should use it!
asciilifeform: i dunget why it can't simply live in framebuffer (fughet even x)
mircea_popescu: eh, i'm not rewritting x.
asciilifeform: if there were a pair of free hands -- would be great proj, remove gtkism from ye olde ff
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunned to 'rewrite x', e.g. phf has perfectly working framebuffer-only box nao
mircea_popescu: honestly, the engine needs a rewrite anyway. and the rewrite needs our svg/html spec. and so following.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would like to see the hairball dissolve, with other hairballs, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, in the new trilema header photo, is that geiger counter in left hand ?
asciilifeform: prospecting ?