phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839743 << probably a multiroot situation. otherwise btcbase does sound alarm (e.g. the "deprecated" patchset has some examples). ftr btcbase is a visualizer of extant patches, it is to some extent more permissive by design than production vtron☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 22:57 asciilifeform: !!later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 hour and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
phf: also shiva situation is different. shiva pressed files, that are not otherwise referenced in subsequent patches, but which are required for the operation of final product. an out of band genesis
BingoBoingo: In other propaganda campaigns, OG Pantsuit Patrick Stewart has been signed to do a revival of his clasic series: Bipeds Sitting In Chairs And Stairing At Screens While Wearing Pajamas
asciilifeform: phf: i see it nao.
jurov: mod6: ben_vulpes: i'm not criticizing, only nudging you to write your accounting standards down
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-02#1838943 <-- yes sir! I'll look into it this week. I'll start testing it in-chan once I have something working.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-02 00:04 mircea_popescu: !Qlater tell spyked any interest adding ^ functionality to spykedbot ?
lobbesbot: spyked: Sent 4 days, 8 hours, and 44 minutes ago: <mircea_popescu> any interest adding ^ functionality to spykedbot ?
jurov: !!pay-invoice mod6 4
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jEO8P/?raw=true
jurov: !!v F1EFA757D912B86093632193C226A28FC8276DF750D94EB4DEC80FAD956147CC
deedbot: jurov paid mod6 invoice 4
mircea_popescu: jurov that'd be what criticizing IS, lol. not that there's anything wrong with criticizing.
mircea_popescu: the world would be a much better place should people actually do a whole lot more of it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839665 << me is pleased to see ben_vulpes has apparently done some meditation on the matter, understands the principles informing the thing.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 21:23 ben_vulpes: so accounting's job is to provide a reasonable, non-malicious estimate of that value, and let investors perform their own valuation based on whether they think that a high or low value for the tangible in question.
mircea_popescu: just because it's short doesn't mean it's not great ; the item in question happens to be, specifically because in its shortness it manages to not contradict any of the principles needed by functional accounting while including nothing not needed.
mircea_popescu: but anyway ; much as in the case of "no mechanical trust", there's no such thing as an "automated" valuation. the value of things requires thought, at all interfaces, which is to say wheresoever the thing potentially changes hands, even if just mentally. these are just minute re-applications of ye olde "no possibility of meaning outside of structure of authority". of fucking course all authority is predicated on thought, and
mircea_popescu: of fucking course it's the substance and the liant holding the human world together.
mircea_popescu: the job of the humans involved at any juncture is to make the job of the other humans that might become involved ~possible~, which is what http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-553.0 is all about. and so on.
mircea_popescu shall continue this log later, teh young sluts call.
ave1: asciilifeform, I just tried to press zfp_2_noc.vpatch with your python (v99, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000160.html) and it pressed and built fine (with fresh download of the patches from my site, just to be sure).
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 16 hours and 3 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/zfp_2_noc.vpatch is an invalid vpatch, it breaks fundamental rule of vtronics , by referencing files not given in the genesis !
asciilifeform: ave1: evidently i made mistake somewhere ? ( mod6 was also able to press, per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839758 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 23:43 mod6: seems to work ok for me: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qIW0e/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ave1: plz show me your command set
asciilifeform: ( now , 1 possibly odd thing that i did, was to get the patches and sigs from phf's btcbase, rather than from ave1's www . perhaps these are broken somehow ? i'd like to diff'em )
phf: let's have us a look see
ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WnHUB/?raw=true
asciilifeform: phf: it is entirely possible that i made mistake somewhere. but worth checking.
phf: according to `mkdir t; cd t; wget --quiet http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/{zfp_1_examples,zfp_2_noc,zfp_genesis}.vpatch; for i in *.vpatch; do cmp $i ../$i || echo fail; done ` everything's fine
asciilifeform: phf: how about the seals ?
phf: likewise
asciilifeform: then i must've broken it on my end, will have to go over it with magnifying glass and find where.
phf: btcbase shasum for reference http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ijInK/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ty phf
asciilifeform: hey phf why does your paste have winblowz line endings ?
asciilifeform: ... or is this the ancient evil with wget..?
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/079-hermannstadt.html << The Tar Pit - Hermannstadt
asciilifeform: ( i was diffing it and pulling hair and then realized the culprit )
asciilifeform: ( and yes the hashes match... )
phf: asciilifeform: oh no i'm not about to start debugging the paste/webserver/download loop again
asciilifeform: phf: i seem to recall that it's a wgetism.
phf: asciilifeform: i saw somewhere suggested that there used to be a unix shell written in ada with some kind of ada like semantics, you know anything about that?
phf: (in related lulz, https://github.com/AdaCore/gsh)
phf: (^ POSIX shell for windows written in Ada, presumably for adacore build toolchain)
asciilifeform: phf: can't say i've seen this before. but gnat does somehow run on winblowz, possibly this is how.
phf: asciilifeform: well there apparently used to be a unix shell in 1980s that was written in ada, i suspect it's not the gsh above, but something else entirely
asciilifeform: i think this is 1st time i hear about a shell in ada ( would be nifty to dig this up tho )
asciilifeform: hmm holyfuq is that gsh thing huge.
asciilifeform: i've been thinking about this: seems as if ~every~ proggy where author does not explicitly set objective of compactness, balloons like a midwest ameristani chix
Mocky: perhaps TASH: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=249100.249117
Mocky: in html: http://archive.adaic.com/docs/reports/westley/tash-tcl/tash_paper.html
Mocky: ^ circa '96 "The goal of this binding is to make scripting language features, such as associative arrays, regular expression matching, and execution of OS commands available to an Ada programmer and to allow a Tcl programmer to use Ada in place of C where needed"
ave1: And another one (used to be called bush), http://sparforte.com
trinque: http://sparforte.com/images/ken_headshot.jpg << "I'd fuck your kids, but I can't find my cock"
ave1: the authors' site: http://www.pegasoft.ca (even has a blog)
asciilifeform: lol!
ave1: indeed
asciilifeform: http://www.pegasoft.ca/pal.html >> 'The PAL is a library of Ada and VHDL software, information, and courseware that contains over 1 BILLION bytes of material (mainly in compressed form). All items in the PAL have been released to the public with unlimited distribution, and, in most cases (the exceptions are shareware), the items are freeware.' << BUT all 3 mirrors dead as dodo.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839704 << bwahahaha.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 21:43 candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: 0.8262125
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839739 << this seems quite reasonable, sure.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 22:41 jurov: mod6: won't it be sufficient to do depreciation once per year, if at all?
ben_vulpes: i'm not entirely clear as to the benefits of depreciation under the tmsr accounting regime; most of my experience has to do with optimizing tax treatment in fiatlandia which is irrelephant here
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reading the depreciations thread, i remembered that it is physically possible to compute an 'exact' depreciation value for ssd drives, as they have 'odometer'. do you think this is worth doing systematically ?
ave1: asciilifeform, I remember the PAL page, went looking for the sources, treasure trove of dead links. Maybe something on the iso images at the evil archive: https://archive.org/details/ADA_-_The_Public_Ada_Library_Walnut_Creek_November_1997
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes purely for meeting people's expectations ; depreciation is the principal faucet out of the tangibles bucket, so you don't end up with massive tangibles that are greatly overstated in accounting terms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think it is only worth doing systematically if it can be done in such a way as to not require phd assembly line.
asciilifeform: troo
asciilifeform: i was thinking from 'truck fleet' pov, where depreciation is computed as a practical approximation to q of 'when will i need to buy new ones'
ben_vulpes: ah, makes sense
mircea_popescu: a lot of what mod6 is stuck doing currently strikes me as exactly that, as the least constructive take (more constructively, it's training him in accounting and valuation fundamentals, which is not a waste at all).
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes in purely notional terms, the diff between a 10k btc tangibles line 0.01% valuable and a 10btc tangibles line 10% valuable is nil. but people have some optimal values so to speak.
mircea_popescu: man much better at estimating the diff between 1st and 2nd mile than between 1000th and 1001th
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839829 << a yr or 2 asciilifeform would've balked at this pov, and iirc did when mircea_popescu first wrote it, but today i strongly suspect that the value of 'vintage coad archive' is most likely ~0. quite likely that little to none of it is written to my current standard of hygiene. ( and the effort to answer this q, is closely similar to the effort to simply write new programs... )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 17:44 ave1: asciilifeform, I remember the PAL page, went looking for the sources, treasure trove of dead links. Maybe something on the iso images at the evil archive: https://archive.org/details/ADA_-_The_Public_Ada_Library_Walnut_Creek_November_1997
asciilifeform: *yr or 2 ago
asciilifeform: ave1: recall in 2016, when i went to look for ada arithmetic lib, and found several, all of them immediately threw away, liquishit with variably-wide, heap-allocated bigints, and half MB or even heavier src
asciilifeform: ( not even speaking of ~how~ implemented -- pointerolade errywhere, etc )
mircea_popescu: sadly.
asciilifeform: not that i wouldn't like to live on the planet where there's a 'library of alexandria' of high-quality, well-documented coad, for the taking.
asciilifeform: but we dun live there.
asciilifeform: we're on the one with the 'fly eyes'.
mircea_popescu: hey, at least there's social media and chick's rights, right ?
asciilifeform: lolyes
mircea_popescu: can't have everything, gotta take your picks.
asciilifeform: recently i had a replay of this experience, went to look for fast fourier transform routine , in ada, ~same thing.
asciilifeform: it's come to where i suspect that even bothering to look at the old coad, is a ~guaranteed waste of time, oughta go straight to knuth and blank page.
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575059 << oblig naggum )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
diana_coman: I am moving my blog over to pizarro so I do need to change the ip; new ip is
asciilifeform: oh hey
asciilifeform: congrats diana_coman
diana_coman: asciilifeform, thanks!
diana_coman: still rough around the edges but almost there
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/us-nra-on-the-ropes-amid-state-financial-deplatforming-attack/ << Qntra - US NRA On The Ropes Amid State Financial Deplatforming Attack
mircea_popescu: should be fun to destructure the pantsuit style "platforms" anyway.
mircea_popescu: who wants the visa monopoly ? and for what exactly ?
BingoBoingo: Right
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if the NRA can't herd millions of poor derps through the visa gates to fund their flannel pantsuitism, what hope do the actual pantsuits have herding their poorer herps
mircea_popescu: well, the old nixon hope, "ima claim i have"
asciilifeform: the mental gymnastics of usaschwitz inmates in pretending that they were not already effectively disarmed , are vaguely entertaining
mircea_popescu: consider, at the same time you're asked to believe "most of credit card payments are fraudulent" AND "someone ever donated to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623380☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 22:29 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : femen, the "ukrainian" organisation is selling shit priced in dollars via 2checkout.com, the columbus ohio us corp.
asciilifeform: ( usa finds d00d with uncrippled kalash ? 20 to life )
mircea_popescu: well... really ?!
mircea_popescu: how about 100% of "donations" to, say, pantsuited hilarity campaign were in fact imaginary ?
diana_coman: ugh, on mp-wp I have avatars fine but I don't have footnotes?
mircea_popescu: and in this same vein, nra can't, but "black women code" can.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you call them with space double parens " (("
mircea_popescu: close with double parens
diana_coman: I have that and it ain't working
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: is it in wp-admin/plugins.php ?
mircea_popescu: might require specific activation, i dun recall.
diana_coman: I'll dig and find out I guess
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and in this same vein, nra can't, but "black women code" can. << Well, the big NRA take is from ranges mandating an NRA membership to join and manufacterers throwing in X length of NRA memberhsip with purchase
mircea_popescu: yes, but your question was in the format "how can car manufacturer compete with print shop printig pictures of cars". well... the OTHER people DO NOT actually get anyone to donate anything.
diana_coman: it's not in plugins.php atm, that much is clear; maybe hanbot can help as she seems to have the footnotes working on her blog
mircea_popescu: nra is working the wrong end of the funnel, it's a whole lot easier to get visa to pretend like you got 10mn donated than to get 1mn derps to send you a tenner each
diana_coman: or esthlos lobbes? how did you get the footnotes working on mp-wp?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you understand this, right, ALL of the "mainstream" in pantsuit narrative is 100% fabricated astroturf. nobody ~actually buys~, actually subscrtibes, actually anything. vice has a readership of maybe 10 people in a good day.
asciilifeform: i suspect nra would have moar subscribers if they refrained from http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561733☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 23:35 asciilifeform: who was, for some years, subscribed to all kinds of nonsensical snailmail spamola as result of once being in 'nra'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more than very little is still useless here.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561736 ftr☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 23:36 asciilifeform: and yes, being on that list apparently nominates you for EVERY pyramid scheme, herbal viagra, !!!!!!URGENT!!!!! faux-irs envelope, etc. scam in usa.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm speaking from the 'oh noez my restaurant is going broke' 'have you tried not taking steaming shits in EVERY plate?' pov.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Astroturf and forced memes. CC fraud and Union dues.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the true problem here is that restaurant is attempting to compete with online simulation of restaurant.
mircea_popescu: kinda... hard, let's say, to do.
asciilifeform: entirely tru
mircea_popescu: by now they've faked the faking to the point there's truly and overwhelmingly absolutely nothing there.
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me that there was at any point anything there.
mircea_popescu: as in the http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-127.158-131.25 ; you understand this, the merit washing is done in "secret" meetings so small and inconsequential the irc spammer kids could force them.
asciilifeform: even the hyped 'rights lobbying' was 100% chemically pure scamola ( nra conceded 'compromise' erry single time whatever ban was going through in washington )
mircea_popescu: and they gotta be "secret", specificalkly because it's rarely half a dozen attendance.
mircea_popescu: it ain't 2000 anymore, when /b/ decided time's man of the year to be m00t.
mircea_popescu: it's 20 years after that, after tmsr ended clinton's presidential hopes and so on and so forth.
BingoBoingo has fond memories of getting cashiers checks from the grocery store to order camping supplies from the "Cheaper than dirt" print catalog back when it sold cool shit
BingoBoingo: Back in the days when it was full of looted eastern block cool
BingoBoingo: Now it's all new manufacture plasticrap
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 'easter block loot' has all a) ran out b) banned by obummer for import
mircea_popescu: right, because when the us can't sell its useless shit in russia it's "russia embargo", and when us can't afford to buy russian shit it's "obama banned".
BingoBoingo: That it did. Now it's all just new manufacter chicom nylon
mircea_popescu: so lucky, the ustards, that they have a patriarch there at the ready to set the sun every time the sun sets and raise it again every time it raises again.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: recall, when you could get ye olde mosin for ~100bux
asciilifeform: comp. with bayonet.
BingoBoingo: Not that long ago at all
BingoBoingo: Or any sks at all, so long as it's not a Chicom one (Clinton I regime weird)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: observe, even the humble bolt-action mosin, 1890s tech, usg dun like, happily goes through whatever kevlar vests, 2-3 at a time
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: And at range! Hay sufficiente Arshins
mircea_popescu eagerly awaits the time "most advanced army in world" comes back "not defeated" from whatever shithole, but instead complaining that "the barbarians don't understand how the world works", "aren't used correctly '''advanced''' weaponry" etc
mircea_popescu: "republic not using nato-based warheads means we can't turn them off! SECURITY THREAT!111"
asciilifeform: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/de/17/7f/de177fb5c8d3335765a672f096f0960b.jpg << subj : far left of photo. (middle : nato. right : 7.62 (pre-smallbulletism) kalash. )
BingoBoingo: Ah, the full .30 caliber spread
BingoBoingo: (missing of course all the other .30s
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839871 -> ha, found it in the logs! for ref it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833366☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 19:33 diana_coman: ugh, on mp-wp I have avatars fine but I don't have footnotes?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 04:45 hanbot: esthlos it doesn't. footnotes source & instructions are in http://thewhet.net/2017/10/a-compendium-of-possibly-helpful-stuffs-for-erecting-mircea-popescus-wordpress-with-nearly-free-speech-hosting/ , and i've never actually taken on the selection jazz. i can tuck em both into next patch tho.
diana_coman: hanbot, your link in ^ is broken
mircea_popescu goes to check out how teh log summaries are coming along, sees http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-08 has one entry on the 1st... yo esthlos ? how goes it ?
BingoBoingo: TBF he did get to the slave name discussion
mircea_popescu: in other shockers, apparently http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-17#1826273 didn't make it for notability cut on the 17th of june.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-17 23:30 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in complicated arrangements, https://78.media.tumblr.com/9549afd41e80687996cc1281cd906aaf/tumblr_os3s2jX4JC1u8futwo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: we've had a dead day! i had nfi!
diana_coman: I almost hoped to read "diana has trouble fucking the goats with eucrypt on musl cuntoo"
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: anyway esthlos i know it's hard but srsly, don't give it up, it's entertaining and perhaps marginally even useful. "Hence I'm changing my base organizational approach and will be prioritizing the log reading above Keccak and other projects, to move towards the desired number." pfff!!
mircea_popescu: re that "bloopers" item, "The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies." << it seems rather suspicious to me that this exact item tends ot lead ro internet collections also. da fuck
diana_coman: yeah, that there is a fun read but as asciilifeform said most probably a cultured pearl essentially
mircea_popescu: "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice they didn't ask for, a service for which he was eventually killed. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock." << not even bad (slightly corrected)
BingoBoingo: This doesn't seem like a blooper: "He also signed the Emasculation Proclamation, and the Fourteenth Amendment gave the ex-Negroes citizenship. "
mircea_popescu: "Martin Luther Cling was nailed to the church door at Wittenberg for selling papal indulgences. He died a horrible death, being excommunicated by a bull." yeah not altogether terrible.
BingoBoingo: Those things support the cultured pearl theory. A hive mind that reliably bloopered this way wouldn't be as bad a the true Reddit
mircea_popescu: these bloopers were retroblooped ?
BingoBoingo: Possibru
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839934 << afaik orig item is an early 1990s usenet copypasta, of unknown veracity☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 20:17 mircea_popescu: re that "bloopers" item, "The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies." << it seems rather suspicious to me that this exact item tends ot lead ro internet collections also. da fuck
asciilifeform: ( english )
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: same flatfile that had the toilet "operating system" lampoon and so on
mircea_popescu even had that line art on a wall at some point.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839921 << BingoBoingo i'm not aware of any other historically significant '.30's ( unless you count mauser/TT short .30 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 19:57 BingoBoingo: (missing of course all the other .30s
asciilifeform: ( TT, i.e. 7.62x25 , incidentally, also goes through kevlar noprob )
BingoBoingo: Well there's a few other missing anglophone .30's the .30-06, the Brit shit, etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the nato ( middle of photo ) is ~= to the -06, neh
asciilifeform: ( iirc they are interchangeable in the field )
asciilifeform: the brit -- i've nfi
BingoBoingo: Ah, I was under the impression it may have been the new .308 (7.62 Nato)
BingoBoingo: ~50's tech
asciilifeform: hm, possibly the 'compatibility' is 1way. i dun recall exactly.
BingoBoingo: The newer (~1950s) 7.62 nato is quite a bit shorter. .30-06 is classic full size/full power. 7.62/.308 Nato is compact size/full power, being the bullet US police shoot people with in standoffs
asciilifeform: i thought usg police favoured machinepistols, with slow, blunt , unjacketed bullets, like the last reich
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform is not expert re subj.
mircea_popescu: "polizei is wermacht that couldn't be taught aiming" or what.
BingoBoingo: They do, but those are for the scare.
BingoBoingo: US doctrine is a dozen people pointing firearms and one pulling the trigger at a person
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if the various leaked clips are anythign to go by, once 1 works up the courage, they all let loose
asciilifeform: which is how they get the d00d with 400 holes in'im for the news cameras
mircea_popescu: seems about right
BingoBoingo: Right, shephard/sheep situation. One guy gets a rifle and the report panics the rest of the piggies
asciilifeform: in re small arms, anybody recall the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504265 derp ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 17:57 asciilifeform: in other 'news', this schmuck is still in business, apparently : http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-cody-wilson-ghost-gunner-ar-15
BingoBoingo: Still in business. Won some case about spamming his 3d printed hazards everywhere
BingoBoingo: Of course his win was swiftly followed by an injuction because "Think of the hands!"
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is such a pleasant donjon over a vast field of "revolutionary!"
mircea_popescu: recall how the whole sintered magic was going to "change the world as you know it" ?
asciilifeform: if ^ types had the brains the gods gave a slug, they'd at least consider trying something new & truly usg-circumventing, e.g. hand cannon that takes pb bullets and h2/o2 ( distilled water + current ) for propellant, finally and for all time curing the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044317 nonsense☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 20:31 PeterL: Trying to find a good link for this, http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/02/16/atf-trying-to-ban-ar15-ammo-under-guise-of-law-enforcement-safety-n1957622
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile the Chinese are thumping their chests about a "practical laser rifle"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cn had pretty decent 'eye burner' as far back as 1990s
asciilifeform: ( usa Officially doesn't , because 'treaty', but surely does, given as any idjit with fiddybux can pick up a 5-10W laser diode with 0 questions asked )
BingoBoingo: Right, then the EU cucks panicked. And the Chinese moved past blinding
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'past blinding' needs a coupla kW and some way to deal with hot air refraction ( afaik still unsolved )
mircea_popescu: "laser rifle" never happening, thump oir no thump. photons are photons, they do what they di ; and let's include the "ion cannon" / http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-17#1556218 discussion☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-17 05:30 ben_vulpes: i am more interested in the "never get close enough"
asciilifeform: ( for folx who slept in kindergarten -- air is not perfectly transparent )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd be a costly and riotously bulky thing, even if the atmosphere didn't get in the way (and it does)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sometimes it's fun to consider what "revolutionary" items like this would make of the past. like say, submarine wars carried out with lengthy "swords", underwarer.
mircea_popescu: water*
mircea_popescu: there's a reason ships don't try to swing at each other underwater like men do, or did, on ground ; just like there's a reason air-to-air missiles aren't propeller-propelled (while torpedoes aren't jet engined)
BingoBoingo: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2153310/china-brings-star-wars-life-laser-ak-47-could-set-fire << No information on power source size
mircea_popescu: and so on
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, ru air corps still teaches ramming as a legit move
mircea_popescu: that's not swining, but sure,ok.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, ru air corps still teaches ramming as a legit move << Mass has always been the equalizer
mircea_popescu: "it's mass or miss"
BingoBoingo: Hey, 2200 watts https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-445834372-anafe-a-gas-butano-camp-bistro-campingaz-2200w-_JM
asciilifeform: !#s thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes
a111: 4 results for "thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thermodynamics%20proposes%20kinetics%20disposes
asciilifeform: butane does not replace gunpowder.
asciilifeform: ( tho the 'potato cannon' hobbyists still try )
asciilifeform: and laser is not particularly useful in the field aside from eye-gougin'.
asciilifeform: but h2/o2 'electrical' musket is prolly realistic partizan weapon, if anybody could be arsed.
Mocky: laser useful in the field for range finding
asciilifeform: Mocky: was speaking of flesh-cutting specifically
mircea_popescu: i dunno how capable of maintaining 02 safely partizans even are, considering a) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824489 and b) even molotov cocktails went out of business, as "too dangerous" (to the derps).☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:21 mircea_popescu: "oh it dun do anything, it's just oxigen" "sure. until the day it does something, then you'll really see a show"
mircea_popescu: Mocky yes, as far as information is concerned, photon unbeatable. as far as mass-interaction however, photon never ever gligible.
mircea_popescu: but always negligible.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hypothetically, known volume of distilled water goes in the dosator tube, and current flows until it stops, then spark.
asciilifeform: ( no carrying around unreacted h2/o2 mix, lol, that's worse than the korean leather cannon, far more lethal to owner than enemy )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like an electric-h2/o2 super-soaker sized gun could perhaps be demonstrated.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the potato people demonstrated, iirc, in early 2000s, just gotta be scaled down and made of steel.
mircea_popescu: but it's unclear to me it'd produce the sort of bang one expects out of a hunting rifle say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as big a bang as you have reactant, neh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's constraints. but anyway, it's not clear to me it wouldn't, so.
asciilifeform: what's the detonation v of h2/o2 anyway
asciilifeform: that's the main constraint re 'could or not'
mircea_popescu: this may be the very problem : very fast but weak wave.
mircea_popescu: may be just enough to fracture your chamber rather than propel your round. i never did teh maffs
asciilifeform: 'too fast' also possible. recall usg's 'project eldest son', where they salted vietnam jungle with ak rounds filled with tetryl
mircea_popescu: a major advantage of gunpowder is that it is strong ~but VERY SLOW~. in chemical reaction speed terms, the black powder item is an outlier of slowness.
asciilifeform: i have nfi whether h2/o2 would make for a rifle that anyone dares to fire; but conceivably a-ok for 'infernal machine'.
asciilifeform: ( interesting that afaik to date nobody ever used. )
mircea_popescu: anyway. prolly solid gold chamber better than solid steel. in any case this repeat-h/o explosion item is not either cheap or light
asciilifeform: why would you make chamber of soft metal ?!!
asciilifeform: ( and , for sake of argument, why au rather than pb )
mircea_popescu: it's not soft at the speed cntemplated. more importantly, i suspect it's not friable
asciilifeform: afaik exactly as frangible as pb
mircea_popescu: i dunno, just gave an example. understand, sea is made of concrete if you're falling into it from high enough. your perception of mechanical material properties is bound to low impulse, but things are different at higher speeds.
asciilifeform: well yes, pretty much whole story of nuke 'tamper' is about this.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: afaik there isn't actually a metal you can make 'tetryl cannon' from, the shockwave exceeds bond strength of anyffing in the earthling mendeleev table
asciilifeform: ( at least the bomb people were only concerned with 'how many nanoseconds until it frags', rather than 'reusable cannon', much easier problem )
mircea_popescu: possibly the case ; in which case that'd be why no one tried.
asciilifeform: anyway quick look in the lit suggests v of 500 to 1000 m/s for h2/o2, depending on pressure and whether there's atmospheric n2 in the mix.
BingoBoingo: A distict downside of transcontinental migration is that I can't open my copy of "Arms of Krupp" for insight atm
asciilifeform: but beyond this, aficionados gotta do their own homewowk.
mircea_popescu: yes, doping may be the other major factor here
mircea_popescu: the one item chem reaction speed / reaction front wave is most sensitive to, is dopings.
asciilifeform: !#s hochdruckpumpe
a111: 6 results for "hochdruckpumpe", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hochdruckpumpe
asciilifeform: ^ see also
mircea_popescu: sort of like, extended-catalyst
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/RRFN6 << photopr0n of subj -- wunderwaffe from prev reich
mircea_popescu: and finally, specific form factor of chamber may also be important enough to worth mention
mircea_popescu: but why are we designing future arms anyway ?!
mircea_popescu: what, we went to school with kalashnikov, exchange many stories of weapons designed ?
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: was given by asciilifeform as example of 'what the 'open sores arms' people might do if they weren't dropped on their heads as children'
asciilifeform: i can just as easily think of 8999 other example.
asciilifeform: if they wanted to demo 'futility of usg control', could start by showing that car battery + distilled h2o + coupla hrs will level a brick house just as well as dynamite, etc.
asciilifeform: but sure, wanking on '3d printer' is much easier...
mircea_popescu: strange that all the kids that "want to show futility of parents control" go to mall to buy emo geddup rather than burn down house.
mircea_popescu: i can't explain it!
asciilifeform: lolyes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800936 ; aka "futility, yes, but i still have to live here"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 14:59 ascii_lander: iirc 'make me chaste and continent but not yet'
asciilifeform: scratch a 'technical' problem -- find a psychiatric problem.
mircea_popescu: ta-da!
asciilifeform: ww2 partizans crafted perfectly usable grenades, mortars, etc out of junkyard fill. what can't be made from junkyard -- is courage.
mircea_popescu: or a clue.
mircea_popescu: ww2 partizans had a credible structure of auctoritas, linking them to the very tree of reason.
mircea_popescu: reddit kiddos, not really so much.
mircea_popescu: (yes, there's no real difference between authority and authorship, in the sense used in scholarship. because how.)
asciilifeform: 'clue' is slightly easier, tho still tricky, recall http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/#selection-149.0-157.415
asciilifeform: redditus, being closer to a talking parrot than human, indeed will find it quite impossible to do anything not already laid out in 'cookbook'.
mircea_popescu: ass of new girl has three layers of marks acquired in not even two days, and out of the balance of dozen+ she's earned. because, genuinely, this problem. and this is a smart & brave girl.
asciilifeform: tree of reason may as well be tree of eden, to them.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839988 << the gigantic muzzle optic suggests that they picked archimedes's solution to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839983☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 21:01 BingoBoingo: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2153310/china-brings-star-wars-life-laser-ak-47-could-set-fire << No information on power source size
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 20:58 asciilifeform: ( for folx who slept in kindergarten -- air is not perfectly transparent )
asciilifeform: still lulzy if considered as grunt weapon ( i can picture, for saboteur, but for grunt -- laugh )
BingoBoingo: Well, what asset do the chicoms have if it isn't that their meat comes wrapped in smaller more numerous packages
asciilifeform: unclear what this thing accomplishes that ordinary incendiary round wouldn't
BingoBoingo: Wank
asciilifeform: ( 'surgically' touch off the cig lighter in enemy general's left pocket while leaving the one in his right, alone ..?? )
BingoBoingo: It accomplishes untold DARPA wank in response
asciilifeform: aaha yes.
BingoBoingo: In nam USistan had zippo for this purpose
BingoBoingo: But nao!
asciilifeform: cn happy to 'help' darpa spend, like reagan was happy to help su.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ir laser has its place -- silently mutilate the expensive optics of usg gear, from coupla km away
BingoBoingo: But on it's own that is blinding. Gotta amp up the power for more damage
asciilifeform: iirc su had a quite-satisfactory version of this in 1980s.
BingoBoingo having a truly depressing experience searching out tomato seeds for the balcony
BingoBoingo: Typical Uruguayo seed vendor term of sale: * Por favor, tenga en cuenta que cualquier tipo de auriculares, audífonos y articulos de cuidado personal no estarán cubiertos bajo esta política de devolución debido a la cuestión de higiene.*
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840047 << i believe item in question started as "lulz what else can we print wit dis thing" kind of like at a house party at 4am one tries to figure out what else can be used as a vodka mixer, but the government ban turned it into "i do what i want mom!1"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 21:25 asciilifeform: was given by asciilifeform as example of 'what the 'open sores arms' people might do if they weren't dropped on their heads as children'
phf: there's no reason to search for further meaning
phf: in related i was recently rereading old issues of phrack, and the first couple of editions are more "anarchist cookbook" than the late 90s thing, e.g. in issue 2 has instructions for building a classic single shot "gun" out of wood and pipe. also much more practical piece of "open sores arms"
phf: (^ http://phrack.org/./issues/2/3.html#article)
BingoBoingo: And for activity oriented Pizarro travellers http://en.expocannabis.uy/ This year's expocannabis has been set for 7, 8, and 9 of December. Will be at LATU, corner of Bolonia street and Avenida Italia
BingoBoingo: ^ danielpbarron
asciilifeform: phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840085 << i've looked at their cad crapola, quite a bit of ( entirely dead-end, but besides the point )effort for '5min drunken theory' scenario☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 22:17 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840047 << i believe item in question started as "lulz what else can we print wit dis thing" kind of like at a house party at 4am one tries to figure out what else can be used as a vodka mixer, but the government ban turned it into "i do what i want mom!1"
asciilifeform: phf: my alt-hypothesis is that it's something slightly different -- it's a haskellism. ameri-sad folx are irresistibly drawn to ~elaborately ineffective~ tech , that absorbs infinite 'ricering' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-09#552410 ) while giving chance to 'show how clever'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-03-09 00:49 asciilifeform: it's a variant on 'ricing'
asciilifeform: this is 90% of the appeal, i suspect, of '3d printer' to begin with. the problems of making shapes with motorized glue gun are quite elaborate, and the aficionados never miss a chance to show off 'clever algos' etc. they normally eschew metal-cutting, despite the promise of actually making something functional -- because they would have to bow to grey-bearded machinists who've been doing cnc since 1950s, and can wipe the floor with t
asciilifeform: he milleni-derps without breaking a sweat
asciilifeform: so instead 'let's hot plastic'.
asciilifeform: it's exactly same thing as where the haskelltards carefully, studiously avoid making a lisp.
asciilifeform: or yarvin -- bitcoin.
asciilifeform: ( in his own nearly exact words, 'my system is carefully and delibrately designed not to be bitcoin' )
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#selection-995.0-1015.1 << see also mircea_popescu's picture of the pathology.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840089 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1836318☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 22:21 phf: (^ http://phrack.org/./issues/2/3.html#article)
a111: Logged on 2018-07-18 21:34 asciilifeform: periodically, uppity folx who need to bake something that shoots, in a hurry (e.g. filipino rebels ) rediscover the korean trick.
asciilifeform: it's practical in places where properly-made shells are easily found. thread was re the 'usg bans' world where, hypothetically, not.
asciilifeform: (i.e. reversion to musketry)
asciilifeform: the ~only thing the '3d printer' aficionados are succeeding in, is to help make this scenario.
asciilifeform: already if you want nitric acid in usa, you gotta either find where to steal , or make own, a la 1700s.
mod6: !!sent-invoices
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rDBIU/?raw=true
mod6: !!ledger
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ErKYU/?raw=true
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839771 << thanks jurov!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 11:47 jurov: !!pay-invoice mod6 4