tmsr - Search: hypertext

asciilifeform: this is trivially verifiable experimentally : build for 32bit ( 'MachineBitness' in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch18/iron__ads.htm ) and get ~exactly 2x slower.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: pre-barrett ffa , when rsaing, spends most of wallclock time in fz_mod , is all. which dun multiply. in 14+ , i fully expect 2-3x boost from asmism (possibly higher, with massage w/ magnifying glass for pipelineism etc )

asciilifeform: ( as it is , it looks like this )

a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 15:58 asciilifeform: ( i.e. one would have to put in mircea_popescu's specced exponent bitness where 'Bitness' is in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_modex__adb.htm#85_14 , to get the speedup )

asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch18/ffa_calc__adb.htm << final ch18 ; still working on the accompanying text

asciilifeform sees it as having been ~stillborn to begin with : ersatz pseudo-hypertext, with broken links, inability to link to fragments in any reliable way, megatonne of hacks req'd to overcome these while introducing novel and intractable breakages, etc

asciilifeform: ( and in the FG reader -- again cuz the underlying i/o routines produce'em )

asciilifeform: ( ffacalc ~does~ have a handler, strictly for trapping invalid cmdline args, ln. 75. )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894644 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/os__ads.htm#44_24 ☝︎

asciilifeform: think, could actually ~use~ hypertext...

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/ffa_calc__adb.htm << ffa as of ch. 16.

asciilifeform: ( alert reader will notice, it is based on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch15/fz_measr__adb.htm#29_13 )

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch15/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14 << specifically here, currently we do 4 MUL instrs for where really needs only 1

asciilifeform: this means not only slightly slower gcd than the draft posted earlier (it'll need a mux) but it also means that e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_qshft__adb.htm#111_14 was in fact leaking, albeit undetectable on the tests given in ch14, and will need mandatory HaveBarrelShifter = 0 (i.e. 5% or so penalty)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: btw it is perfectly ok also to simply invoke the knobs exported in ffa.ads directly, but then you gotta take care of 1) endianism of the words being put in and gotten out , to match yours 2) testing for div0 , as done in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/ffa_calc__adb.htm

asciilifeform: ( i.e. one would have to put in mircea_popescu's specced exponent bitness where 'Bitness' is in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_modex__adb.htm#85_14 , to get the speedup ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: same thing as in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_mul__adb.htm#164_7 .

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/fz_io__adb.htm#29_14 << subj. presumes existence of 'nibbles'

asciilifeform: you can browse whole ch13 at http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/ffa_calc__adb.htm , if lazy

asciilifeform: at 1 time, was used in the constant entry ( nibble inserter ) routine, then the latter was replaced with rewritten http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/fz_io__adb.htm#29_14 , nao sole remaining use is in the knuth divider.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma also note, _O_I is used strictly in fz_mod : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/fz_divis__adb.htm#83_14 ; prolly oughta be inlined ~there~ and abolished as a global (even internally) function.

asciilifeform: idea being , exported routines ( current set is shown in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/ffa__ads.htm ) are to be 'safe on all electrically possible inputs' , with the exception of div0 (user is commanded to test for div0, as example in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/ffa_calc__adb.htm#172_17 )

asciilifeform: ( it is certainly indexed in the place where it lives -- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/fz_basic__adb.htm#72_13 -- but for some reason not in ffa_calc__adb... )

asciilifeform: still mighty useful. ( presently i'm continuing with the http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch13/ffa_calc__adb.htm thing, to fill that niche )

asciilifeform: nao i hear hypertext exists, lessee if can make less of bowel-loosening horror

a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:21 asciilifeform: when i started ffa, i did not plan to bake any asm speedups at all. but there's 2 reasons to do it, eventually : one is that on e.g. x86/x64, getting the upper half of a word-sized multiplication, without asm, takes ~four~ MULs plus a buncha additions : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14

asciilifeform: ( there is also the fact that such a simple thing as addition with carry takes not 1 ADD instruction, but an entire http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/word_ops__adb.htm#36_13 orchestra )

asciilifeform: the other is that on iron such as certain ARM ( i have not yet investigated ~which~ ) , and ppc, and certain others, there does not even exist a constant-time MUL, and one is stuck with some variant of http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#33_13 -- which really begs to be asmed, is riotously inefficient

asciilifeform: when i started ffa, i did not plan to bake any asm speedups at all. but there's 2 reasons to do it, eventually : one is that on e.g. x86/x64, getting the upper half of a word-sized multiplication, without asm, takes ~four~ MULs plus a buncha additions : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14 ☟︎

mircea_popescu: because you know, bidirectional linkage fundamental property of proper hypertext and all that...

asciilifeform: ( it's not ~completely~ fucktarded, all of ffa is still reachable via http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/ffa__ads.htm . but still frustrating )

asciilifeform: phf: the default view ( http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/ ) of gnathtml gives you a frames thing with ~worthless alphabetic index in the left pane. really it oughta show 'where currently clicked symbol used' imho

deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2702 << Loper OS - Hypertext Concordance for Finite Field Arithmetic.

mircea_popescu: ~hypertext preprocessor~. wtf are you going to do ? do you want hypertext or don't you ? do you want separable parts or don't you ? it's a triangle, right, a) well specified tasks ; b) separable parts ; c) no glue needed. pick two.

spyked: very similar discussion to e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758790 ; diff works on hunks, not files, similarly, hypertext works on trees, not files. but this is only a (not very well thought out so far) intuition. ☝︎

spyked: there's another thing, though I still have to get up to date on http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hypertext : teh Trilema JS is trying to solve what seems to be a limitation in the current URI scheme. the "resource" in URI refers to documents/pages (files!), whereas we want to (and it would be useful to be able to) link to subtrees in the document.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 15:50 trinque waits patiently for a gossipd atop which to redo hypertext

asciilifeform: well, ~wants~ to 'make new hypertext', really it's a sad emulation. but considerable improvement over nothingatall

mircea_popescu: this triad : links, pingbacks, selection reference make up a whole NEW hypertext. just as far from the old as that was from text.

trinque: it also leaves space for *multiple* hypertext document viewers, many as you like.

a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 01:58 asciilifeform: i'd like to encourage trinque to put some of his 'crackpot' algos 'to paper', as articles. the hypertext thing was interesting imho, for instance, and so was earlier trinque pill for 'mining is a bug', and possibly other occasions. dun be afraid to write down conjectures, trinque , gauss did

trinque: proper hypertext system (itself based upon v) provides the talmud commentary thing endlessly

asciilifeform: i'd like to encourage trinque to put some of his 'crackpot' algos 'to paper', as articles. the hypertext thing was interesting imho, for instance, and so was earlier trinque pill for 'mining is a bug', and possibly other occasions. dun be afraid to write down conjectures, trinque , gauss did ☟︎

asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque didja ever get a chance to write down that hypertext system algo of yours ?

asciilifeform: htm is to actual hypertext as koch is to rsa.

a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 20:05 trinque: are we really trying to preserve every idiotic misuse of hypertext here?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709109 << it's not directly clear that search is misuse of hypertext ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:50 trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.

trinque: why do you wish to express querying in terms of a hypertext interface at all?

trinque: hypertext's an inert datastructure, gives you a graph to crawl over while reading. why's it gotta be an interactive program aside that usecase?

trinque: are we really trying to preserve every idiotic misuse of hypertext here? ☟︎

trinque: and yes would kill the "dynamic web" thing which, what the fuck, it's hypertext not a program, even if a program generated the hypertext.

trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely. ☟︎

trinque: worse still, index.html on your favorite website, and hurr durr XML hypertext.

mircea_popescu: php is a hypertext preprocessor. that's what it does, websites. just like the rubber dome in your bathroom unclogs the toilet. does it disgust you ? it's a tool, you're not expected to keep it on the diner table.

asciilifeform: 'Christopher Alexander is Emeritus Professor of Architecture at the University of California, Berkeley, best known for his seminal works on architecture including A Pattern Language, Notes on the Synthesis of Form, and The Nature of Order, Volumes I-IV. He is the father of the Pattern Language movement in computer science, and A Pattern Language was perhaps the first complete book ever written in hypertext fashion.'

a111: Logged on 2016-07-04 10:24 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496683 << i'm not even sure that's true, ftr. php is actually a fine language FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE. hypertext preprocessor ffs! it's not even a language, as such! just a preprocessor, like an early scripting language.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-04#1496683 << i'm not even sure that's true, ftr. php is actually a fine language FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE. hypertext preprocessor ffs! it's not even a language, as such! just a preprocessor, like an early scripting language. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-06-26 04:19 mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea how the people who dreamed up the hypertext failed to realise the value and importance of referencing SPECIFIC PORTIONS specifically,

mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea how the people who dreamed up the hypertext failed to realise the value and importance of referencing SPECIFIC PORTIONS specifically, ☟︎

trinque looks forward to the day he can fiddle around with the concept of hypertext on a gossipd

trinque: had a thread with gabriel_laddel recently on whether hypertext was even valuable; I hold that it is

trinque: asciilifeform: better question might be whether there are existing hypertext system implementations from that era

BingoBoingo: mass of the inconsequential." << Critical application of actual hypertext

BingoBoingo: How can one even pretend to have a hypertext spec or its substitute without citing <em>Vannevar Bush</em>

BingoBoingo: For the record this is the original and only meaningful spec for hypertext, predates LISP by two decades https://archive.is/ezrwO

mircea_popescu: tbh this extended hypertext thing i got on trilema kicks all imaginable butt

BingoBoingo: <trinque> anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today. << Gopher is beautiful

trinque: anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today.

trinque: a safe hypertext system could easily be tossing sepxrs over the wire with *no* code, just piles of data

trinque: ^ guy is just more interested in his lisp system than a particular app on it. I contend the mega-app on any computer now and in the future will be a hypertext system.

BingoBoingo: <trinque> hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was. << Seriously there is a specific harmless language or subset of language necessary for playing the presentation role. Something that by it's Phoosis can be presented safely

trinque: I'm actually on-board that hypertext shouldn't specify executable code within

trinque: I am saying hypertext as the concept that there are relationships in written word that can be traversed is right

trinque: ascii_field believes that hypertext, at least as presently implemented 'in-band', ~is~ wrong << unless I misunderstand you, we agree

ascii_field believes that hypertext, at least as presently implemented 'in-band', ~is~ wrong