tmsr - Log 2019-07-20

trinque: and I don't fault mp_en_viaje his ideological rigor. not in the slightest.

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923622 << the whole rest of history then requires this multi-gb genesis long after the resultant item has been carved to however many mb ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 14:52 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923552 << exactly. it is marginally better than merely dropping portage on their head ; and it is ideologically defensible because guess what, if they don't like the genesis they don;t have to either patch on it or press it.

asciilifeform: trinque: indeed does. bitter pill. but sorta like bitcoin requires that 300GB (an' counting) of liquishit, 4evah

trinque: rather than having a perforation point which can be torn off, preserving the references for whichever historian that cared, but *not importing the shitwad into the future indefinitely* was the point

trinque: asciilifeform: the vtree for bitcoin is not and never will be 300gb

asciilifeform: it's the same thing, imho, the cost of being able to trace the history to birth of universe, is having to keep it around

asciilifeform: nao what i'd really like is to ditch the idjit unixdiff's reversible deletions

asciilifeform: where if you snip a MB, ~that patch~ now weighs 1MB+

asciilifeform: there's no fucking point to that, if we keep genesis of orig ☟︎

asciilifeform: trinque: how does 'regress infinitely' ? plox to elaborate

asciilifeform: imho this is the real open q in the thread -- how to represent relation b/w nominally separate proggies

asciilifeform: each of which by all logic wants to be sep. vtree, but are dependent functionally

asciilifeform: if can solve this cleanly, can then be rid of portage, even, in principle ☟︎

trinque: this I think correctly runs afoul of mp_en_viaje's "there is only one fucking tree, and it does not loop"

trinque: see, I'm this perverse fellow that knows the scripture even.

trinque: asciilifeform: the point being yes, we can be rid of portage, but where are the steps between there and here.

trinque: might as well say what I'm doing with my time lately, which is related. I'm horking down bitcoins by the $10k, what

asciilifeform: i suppose beats alternative where burning life in salt mine and ~not~ piling up coin

trinque: it's shitty, lol, but what am I going to hold when I'm 40.

trinque: upstack, trying to capture linux in this manner might've been a fool's errand. might be that a muntzed kernel and a busybox-like are a saner beachball to eat. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: is actually all i got atm in the mips thing -- busybox

asciilifeform: trinque: thinking about it, 1 possible answer to the puzzler is to make an entire orchestra as 1 vtree.

asciilifeform: iirc at one time mp suggested this, 'there oughta be ONE genesis' ☟︎

trinque: I'd be surprised if that stone doesn't haul in all the rest

asciilifeform: trinque: to expand -- currently gnat srcball aint a complete description of gnat. i.e. it demands existing gnat. iirc was described pedantically in old thrd.

asciilifeform: mipsism is a half-solution, of sorts, in that can build a mipsistic gnat and then will execute anywhere you can port the 12kB emu to

billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923822 << why is the #selection piece necessary for the server side version of this? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 21:25 mp_en_viaje: can has trilema.com/article-title/?start=5&end=7 OR trilema.com/article-title/#selection but not rly both.

billymg: the way i understand it, client makes a request to url?start=5&end=7, server pulls content from mysql and returns with <span class="highlight"></span> injected where start/end indicate

billymg: then js can additionally do the selection thing (now trivial, because wrapped in <span>), or the text is simply "highlighted" with css (though not actually selected)

billymg: but the part i don't understand is how you get around http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923759 even with server side url variables ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 20:07 mp_en_viaje: selection thing works by counting dom elements, and, guess the fuck what, different browsers build the thing differently, resulting in different counts.

billymg: i.e. to make a new shareable selection, user selects text, js constructs url with appropriate ?start=x&end=y for server to return content with highlight wrapped in <span> ...but if DOM varies then these values will be different depending on the browser making the request

billymg: ah, nm, gets around it with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923773 instead of trying to specify index of characters -- i see now ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 20:12 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, so your idea is, recursive search ? user selects "duck" in abcduckefg, the script tries "c" sees if unique, if yes uses, if not tries bc, if unique uses if not abc etc ?

mp_en_viaje: billymg, actually, slave galley meanwhile produced solution, will be publishing it shortly.

mp_en_viaje: halelujah. now i can get back to working on tlp archive.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923886 >> the warning being, "this shit is not seaworthy, take it to bed" ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 23:53 BingoBoingo: So, it appears Iran took two British ships and released one with a warning.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923892 << so it does ; because yes, patches are additive, even the "substracting" ones. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 00:18 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923622 << the whole rest of history then requires this multi-gb genesis long after the resultant item has been carved to however many mb

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923902 << this is true, but i rather like the - + explicit format. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 00:21 asciilifeform: there's no fucking point to that, if we keep genesis of orig

mp_en_viaje: one thing i NEVER liked about dead tree books was that you had to flip pages to find notes. fucking bs.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923909 << likely end up either re-using or re-implementing it ; hence http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923650 ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 00:24 asciilifeform: if can solve this cleanly, can then be rid of portage, even, in principle

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 15:26 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it's entirely possible we'll end up with a ~pile~ of genesises.

mp_en_viaje: it might be that we actually need some glue, in between "master tree" and "individual genesises" that happens to be ~like portage.

mp_en_viaje: ie, the problem here in correct abstraction would be that trinque worked on the "phantom' tree (how to go from ONE TRUE ROOT -> ALL THINGS) whereas everyone else started on real tree of ALL THINGS, and well, there's a disconnect there.

mp_en_viaje: something that takes the filter of "i want trb, eulora but not blogotron" our of the long list of all things available and creates a local-tree out of the world tree, just for you. which is STILL a complete tree, and presses and string of vpatches and all ; but it is merely an aspect of the omnitree.

ave1: I updated http://ave1.org/2019/gnat-sjlj-build-project/, next will be plan for gcc genisis project.

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923917 << i do not see that any of this was avoidable, or is useless. i think mostly you just got pissed off upon discovering there's a redoubt behind the redoubt, "motherfucker, there's not a full strength regiment behind these three surviving dudes" be ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 00:43 trinque: upstack, trying to capture linux in this manner might've been a fool's errand. might be that a muntzed kernel and a busybox-like are a saner beachball to eat.

mp_en_viaje: ave1, tjhe fact your blog doesn't have a datestamp under the title makes working with articles like this one harder than it needs to be.

ave1: Ah, I see (I always hate this missing dates on other blog and I had noticed).

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923917 << there was also a s.mg attempt where diana_coman tried to preserve all linux (in the manner of trb, naive speccing at the time). also fucking died, over explodig complexity (basically, there's no way to control for repetition, end up having to store GB-size^2) ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-06-02 03:59 mircea_popescu: the name for software that changes with the user's pubic hairdo fashions is USERLAND. why the fuck am i... o look at that, there's 1.9 GB to download! the OS!!!! is two gigs.

mp_en_viaje: because yes, the fucktards broke the eulora build chain like 3 times to date. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923925 << there absolutely ought to. in the general. it's not clear to me this is also mandatory ~on every system~. basically a "light node" debate is upon us. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 01:57 asciilifeform: iirc at one time mp suggested this, 'there oughta be ONE genesis'

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923930 << maybe worth going over "what would this solution look like" one more time. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 02:10 asciilifeform: but not 'troo' solution

mp_en_viaje: in other local news, ima go for coffee @ cafe de paris, karla marcsa 8 say about 18:00, if any phf s in town wanna join. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: is your new-type link engine switched off just nao ?

asciilifeform: looked in the raw htm barf, too, no sign of the new markup

mp_en_viaje: im answerin'.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/#comment-130031 << and try nao.

asciilifeform: 'Inca under the color of delivering your own interests, it one&e=y#select>separates youi even as it seems to feed you.' and uncoloured

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, that item is actually discussed as such in the comments (under "operator error"). but yes.

mp_en_viaje: try the link in the very article, following http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/?b=interests,&e=,%20it#select ; and the one it links to ( http://trilema.com/2016/a-complete-theory-of-politics/?b=The%20alpha&e=The%20female#select ) on the republican thesaurus page, as cannonical examples

asciilifeform: ( and by extension prolly won't work for asciilifeform's code snippets )

mp_en_viaje: can use div if you''d rather, that'll go.

mp_en_viaje: (this is span-based)

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not if you're careful to not start mid-sentence, i guess ?

mp_en_viaje: tim tarder's lee www, a succession of tradeoffs

mp_en_viaje: why would this not work for a section of a line tho ?

mp_en_viaje: i mean, why wouldn't this as it is, with span, work

asciilifeform: from my reading of item 3 , 'The disadvantage of span is that, being an inline element, it will not cross paragraphs (or <li> borders for that matter)'

mp_en_viaje: imho in a piece like that the correct approach would be the same as we do for logs : have the line numbers hyperlinked.

mp_en_viaje: that's what they're there for, to support indexing of text. so use them.

asciilifeform: prolly will require custom coad displayer, if need to e.g. colour multiple lines

mp_en_viaje: i daresay that when it comes to code, lines written in such a way that line count index is insufficient and one benefits from in-line linking as with the javascript is ~therefore~ broken

asciilifeform: well my current one (linked above, cribbed from gnat built-in htmlizer) dun even put anchors on the individual lines, atm can only link subroutines

mp_en_viaje: as to the multiline thing, i recall my trying to spec a multi-line selector with framedragger just prior his disappearance. iirc he got it working, maybe lift that ?

mp_en_viaje: yes hang on

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648458 < ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 15:05 mircea_popescu: i guess i reconstructed the http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170427/from:34/to:46#34 format on the basis of logs.

scriba: Logged on 2017-04-27: [02:14:22] * mircea_popescu went to business school here today, spent five minutes listening in on what evidently was the graduation project of some 4th year kid. do you know what he had ?

asciilifeform: indeed worx. will have to saw it open an' see just how.

mp_en_viaje: iirc it's discussed prior in chan.

mp_en_viaje: if it helps

mp_en_viaje: *thumbsup*

mp_en_viaje: it's a private joke!

mp_en_viaje: very private!

asciilifeform: aite. i actually wondered whether literally ! ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-19 19:57 mp_en_viaje: do you recall that arguably famous-er pic of the guy on the er table with hips turning cyanotic hugging a telephone pole up his ass ?

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform ftr, nicole's like "who asked about phf's asshole ?" and hanbot's like "stan" and nicole's like "naturally."

asciilifeform: well iirc he was headed to visit mp_en_viaje other day

mp_en_viaje: ah, we visited kalvaryja as well as cunt sawshchyna yest.

diana_coman: BingoBoingo: ack, so far so good, thank you! bill me for 1 year and I'll see to it

lobbesbot: diana_coman: Sent 13 hours and 55 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XRfoU/?raw=true

billymg: mp_en_viaje: left a comment with a solution to the selection inside of links issue. apologies for the multiple copies, it took a few tries for me to get the formatting right

asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform goes to snailmail box and in it, a spam, 'buy gold-plated plaque of yer patent!'. a:'wtf' , goes an' loox, sure enuff, there is one, d00d who ran (long-defunkt) salt mine where asciilifeform was conscripted to write one, apparently kept payin', and so got shat out.

asciilifeform: nao asciilifeform can burn in the higher temperature circle of hell, where ken thompson is!1

asciilifeform: lulzily, orig. text was maybe 3 para; what got shat out by the end is some 100kB, reads like usg penal code.

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1923968 << this was exactly my experience as well. "motherfucker, each time I pin another frog leg down, it grows three more" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 09:58 mp_en_viaje: because yes, the fucktards broke the eulora build chain like 3 times to date.

diana_coman: hm, does anyone around here know a good way to allow WP logins for non-admin users from any IP while still keeping the admin restricted sanely? ☟︎

BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The state of the art seems to be accepting GPG blocks sent over p.bulpes

BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'm describing the way Qntra does it. Submitter offers their piece over p.bvulpes and Editor logs into the wordpress to publish and attach the byline.

BingoBoingo: Allowing actual logins to wp from any ip is unsolved atm

diana_coman: I wanted a less hands-on approach, since I'm planning to run a class there, not holding their hand at such level

BingoBoingo: Well, another option, one that requires offering them a shell is ye olde SOCKS proxy.

diana_coman: hm, I suppose it should be possible to just make a different login page in the root dir but then they'd need at least another page to actually submit the text too and it all circles back to similar "offer the piece there"

diana_coman: though logically speaking the solution would be to automate *that* part, hm

BingoBoingo: Well, mp-wp also has all of the dashboard including living in /wp-admin as well including the page for making posts.

BingoBoingo: Now, mp-wp does have a user role facility that allows restricting what different user names get to do.

diana_coman: that's the thing: that after logging in, they need access t wp-admin which is iffy to give because again, same trouble; and yes, ofc wp has roles and I wanted to use them but that's not enough

mp_en_viaje: billymg, answered.

BingoBoingo: The thing is when you open up any-IP the cookie theft hazard comes in.

diana_coman: I guess I'm doomed to do it first manually and then cook up an automation of *that* process

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-20#1924044 << in so many words, nope. moreover, mp-wp cookie based admin login is not safe with open ip login, because cookie can get trivially stolen on any js enabled browser. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-07-20 19:26 diana_coman: hm, does anyone around here know a good way to allow WP logins for non-admin users from any IP while still keeping the admin restricted sanely?

mp_en_viaje: (this is universal problem of http "login", hence the "push to 2fa" and other such bs "security" theatre)

mp_en_viaje: there ~is~ a way to accept posting via email, however, if that floats your boat.

mp_en_viaje: gotta set up smtp server tho

mp_en_viaje: alternatively, you can just let it be, open ip, and do daily snapshots of db into safety or something. if it gets compromised, ah well.

mp_en_viaje: who said school should have good locks on doors anyway

mp_en_viaje: so far the problem is rather indolence than hyperactivity.

diana_coman: there is that; I'm fighting the fact that ....but it's MY school goddamnit

mp_en_viaje: imo contemporary highschool would greatly benefit from periodic barbarian invasion, complte with rape and pillage.

diana_coman: it's also the sort of thing that is on the checklist of douchebags-style aka trivial to break and "rara"

mp_en_viaje: so let them brag, what's it cost anyone.

diana_coman: BingoBoingo: would there be any problem from pizarro's point of view to have such a thing?

diana_coman: BingoBoingo: can I setup a db backup with crontab directly or do you need to do that or how does it go?

BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'm not familiar with crontab, but your db user has full privileges on the mp-wp blog's database

BingoBoingo: Feel free to use whatever tools you want to backup the database

mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/#comment-130042 << in other news, billymg had great refinement for whole thing, ditched troublemaking a tag!

diana_coman: with many thanks to BingoBoingo for his prompt and faultless service