log
▁▁▁▁⏐▁
deedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/11/conveyor-outlook-now-to-feb-2019/ << lobbesblog - Conveyor Outlook: Now to Feb 2019
lobbes btw is finding esthlos' summaries to be very helpful in finding threads at times
mircea_popescu: that's pretty cool...
BingoBoingo: ty lobbes
deedbot: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/splitting-the-primary-and-the-sub-key-in-a-gnupg-keychain/ << BARKS IN THE WIND - Splitting the primary and the sub key in a gnupg keychain
mircea_popescu: phf "countrary" contrary
diana_coman: fwiw I actually patched v.pl to use phf's vtools and it works absolutely fine; I guess I'll write-it up and publish the whole thing later today if nobody else does it
mircea_popescu: good idea.
mircea_popescu: and in other news, got a shipment of sprats. old riga, including pronouncements as to how kosher they are, in hebrew on the side.
mircea_popescu: made me think of odessa.
mircea_popescu: phf impressive dance you got there.
diana_coman: hey, old riga sprats are great here too!
diana_coman: as the lithuanian-estonian-russian said "they've always been great, what!"
mircea_popescu: hehe. yeah.
deedbot: http://ave1.org/2018/udp-no-c/ << ave1 - UDP - No C
diana_coman: ave1, nice! I'll add it to my list to give it a spin
asciilifeform: ave1: this is neat
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871708 << funnily i loaded up on same just coupla days ago ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 09:00 mircea_popescu: made me think of odessa.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871703 << also neato, i expect this'll come in handy when we start extracting moduli / migrating off gpg ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 05:14 deedbot: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/splitting-the-primary-and-the-sub-key-in-a-gnupg-keychain/ << BARKS IN THE WIND - Splitting the primary and the sub key in a gnupg keychain
ave1: asciilifeform, diana_coman: I'm now looking into arm 64bit, but so far seems to be bit more involved. I've not found a way to directly couple an ada varable to a register.
asciilifeform: ave1: do you mean that inline asm is actually broken on arm64 gnat ? or simply not found how to make it go
asciilifeform: ( if broken, will have to be fixed, wtf )
ave1: no not broken
ave1: in x86, I can specify a constraint
ave1: this variable needs to be in the aex register etc
asciilifeform: right, how can even have inline asmism without this
ave1: arm has a lot more registers, but no constraints for these
ave1: instead gcc assumes you use "C",
ave1: in C you can specify the register for a variable at definition time
ave1: like so: register long x0 __asm__("x0")
asciilifeform: ave1: depending on just how sad gcc turns out to be, may have to put the asm in a separate linkable .o and invoke it as if it were c lib
ave1: I've not found equivalent in gnat docs or source
asciilifeform: ave1: what you describe sounds like catastrophic bug in gcc
ave1: This is in gnat (i.e. for gcc C it works fine)
asciilifeform: it'll have to be fixed.
ave1: first work around is to have a bunch of mov instructions before the syscall
asciilifeform: ave1: elaborate ?
ave1: In the inline assembly you specify that the variable can be in a global (constraint == "g")
ave1: then in the inline assembly code, you do something like: mov %0, %%x0
asciilifeform: ugh
ave1: to get the first argument into the x0 registers
ave1: yes ugh
asciilifeform: and how wouldja get a result ~out~ of register and return from function
ave1: I use it now for the recvfrom / sendto calls for x86_64
ave1: same recipe only mov arguments changed
ave1: syscalls only have one outgoing parameter, the errorcode (all other outs are through pointers)
asciilifeform: in the particular example of udp, a coupla extra MOV's won't make a diff speedwise (vs the latency of the nic) but this sorta thing will be ugly once we start writing kernel mods in ada / moving off unix entirely
asciilifeform: ave1: see if you can find what is the coad in gnat that exists on x64 but not arm64, re register pinning
ave1: I've looked into the "constraints" code support in GCC (for x64), but I'm still in the spaghetti phase
ave1: To be clear, the register pinning is in gcc
asciilifeform: i can't speak for other folx, but i dun expect to need this particularly soon, so there is time to unravel the puzzler
ave1: In C there are 2 ways: (a) in the asm instruction, (b) in the register variable definition
asciilifeform: ( but eventually i do want to write e.g., asmtronic MUL, for arm64 ffa )
ave1: in GNAT ther is one way: the asm instruction
ave1: unfortunately the asm instruction has a limited version of the pinning
asciilifeform: well there is also a 'put all asmism in a standalone .S and feed it to the linker' , for completeness
asciilifeform: i.e. same thing i did with the C routines
ave1: yes, but then you'll have to do stack gymnastics etc
asciilifeform: correct
asciilifeform: i suspect it'll result in tighter coad, tho, in principle
asciilifeform: the big q is whether it'll inline ( which for my application is absolutely vital )
ave1: I'll see if I can patch gcc and add an extra constraint to the asm statement
asciilifeform: when i started ffa, i did not plan to bake any asm speedups at all. but there's 2 reasons to do it, eventually : one is that on e.g. x86/x64, getting the upper half of a word-sized multiplication, without asm, takes ~four~ MULs plus a buncha additions : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14
asciilifeform: the other is that on iron such as certain ARM ( i have not yet investigated ~which~ ) , and ppc, and certain others, there does not even exist a constant-time MUL, and one is stuck with some variant of http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#33_13 -- which really begs to be asmed, is riotously inefficient
asciilifeform: ( there is also the fact that such a simple thing as addition with carry takes not 1 ADD instruction, but an entire http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/word_ops__adb.htm#36_13 orchestra )
ave1: Yes, I remember
asciilifeform: so a proper asmification potentially yields 5-10x speedup 'for phree' , all else being equal
ave1: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#33_13, this is the egyptian mul?
asciilifeform: ave1: correct, it is a special narrowed egyptian mul, word-sized
asciilifeform: ( see ch. 9 discussion re why, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2186 )
asciilifeform: ( scroll to the bloody leg illustration )
asciilifeform: nao, this being said, my objective is still to give acceptably-performing, re erryday ops, ffa ~without asm~. but asmism will make a serious diff re e.g. key generation, make minutes instead of day+.
asciilifeform: if one wants to generate keys on battery power, asm is not escapable.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871705 << this will come in very very handy, looking forward to seeing it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 08:10 diana_coman: fwiw I actually patched v.pl to use phf's vtools and it works absolutely fine; I guess I'll write-it up and publish the whole thing later today if nobody else does it
asciilifeform: mod6's vtron is my current all-time favourite
asciilifeform: it got enuff battlefield test that he ironed out afaik all the significant bugs
asciilifeform: fwiw i worked around last night's ugh in phf's variant, but i'd much rather use a properly polished item than my kludge
asciilifeform: i expect to post the reground ch1-11 today; folx who read whichever chapters, will be invited to send in seals
asciilifeform: ( i still gotta come up with a fix for the comment box on my www; until then , i'll take seals via p.bvulpes.com etc )
phf: asciilifeform: i've posted a v.pl patch http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867871 ( archived http://archive.is/ZJUMM ), unfortunately since v.pl doesn't have its own vtree, doing it properly requires a bunch of extra work ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-31 03:21 phf: mod6: just fyi i was able to press eucrypt using v.pl by patching it to use vtools's `ksum' for hashing instead of sha512sum and `vpatch' for pressing instead of gnu. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PZ4hX/?raw=true
asciilifeform: btw http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871763 is somewhat misleading, let's correct : this is the case on ALL known archs, gcc is retarded and does not supply a ready-baked inline word x word mul function ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:21 asciilifeform: when i started ffa, i did not plan to bake any asm speedups at all. but there's 2 reasons to do it, eventually : one is that on e.g. x86/x64, getting the upper half of a word-sized multiplication, without asm, takes ~four~ MULs plus a buncha additions : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14
asciilifeform: phf: right, my current understanding is that presently ~errybody has a kludged vtron, but no one yet posted a 'canonical' variant that's 1) properly genesis'd 2) worx errywhere
asciilifeform: for keccak, that is
asciilifeform: possible exception is esthlos, but i have not tested his item yet
asciilifeform: i'd like to be able to put a link in the 'ffa regrind' article, 'and you can press it with ~this~'
phf: right
phf: v.py unfortunately requires a bunch of work (unrelated to yesterday's issue), it was very much a poc, and i suspect you and i are the only people who actively use(d) it
asciilifeform: quite possibly
asciilifeform: it defo should not be considered 'the' vtron.
asciilifeform: ( has ~nonexistent error handling; and misbehaves on oddly shaped trees, this is plentifully described in the l0gz )
asciilifeform: once we have a One Troo scripting language ( possibly some variant of spyked's gc-less ada lisp.. ) i'd like to write a vtron in that ( supposing nobody else beats me to it )
asciilifeform: really would like to throw out python, perl, bash, etc eventually.
asciilifeform brb,tea
mircea_popescu: hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6RdYT/?raw=true
asciilifeform: btw i confirmed that phf's v98 ( when patched to remove the subkey handler thing ) successfully presses ch1-11, with bitwise-correct results ( compared with classic vtron )
asciilifeform: and that gpg1/2ism has 0 to do with the eggog ( i removed the custom gpg invocation line to 0 effect )
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/H7UHO/?raw=true << the variant in question, ftr.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hey hey!
asciilifeform: btw phf i am enjoying your new logtron feature, with the paste snapshot
asciilifeform: e.g. http://btcbase.org/archive/cc61590c3ccf59a9384c36e05791a34fc8e432570811f896f5d25e79d82d342462299d4fae8f1122f5b3b97e93cc69b505a54b7457d88e8b87994c13b097afd9
mircea_popescu: yeah, pretty cool!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulz farms, PrincessVH 25F Princess "Not kidding about what?" LordMPofTMSR "Not the sharpest tool in the shed, I take it."
mircea_popescu: PrincessVH "It's due to the fact that your title of the message has been cut in half and the only part that is readable is "How about you drop whatever it is you're d..."" LordMPofTMSR "Intelligence is specifically this (seemingly "magical") ability to find one's way out of a paper bag."
asciilifeform: lol another 1 of those !
mircea_popescu: there's a whole wide world out there, chitlins, and it has SO MUCH TO OFFER!!!
mircea_popescu: so much of the very same, but much of it nevertheless!
asciilifeform: gotta wonder what they're using for a terminal
mircea_popescu: "hey fellow africans, i wonder what those strange forms in the mists across the ocean might be" "that's just the way the horizon's painted, brother joshuah"
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu does errybody on that site only know engl ?
asciilifeform: ( maybe consider try in a human lang, get slightly less retarded folx ? )
mircea_popescu: more retarded. non-anglo women still need traditional "patriarchy" dissolved out of their stupid heads, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-06#1869904 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-06 18:12 mircea_popescu: the whole usgistan thing is a ~necessary~ solvent for the otherwise even-more-imbecile "nation of kings" bullshit.
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: the choice is literally "this ~half bn or so of english speakers, who have been so neglected as children as to practically emulate classical africans" or else "these ~3bn women, so fucken retarded they will die in http://trilema.com/2017/in-scams-today-disk-less-terminal-sa-dba-laesquinadelamazmorra/#footnote_3_72501 trap without batting an eyelash).
asciilifeform: does seem like 'nature abhors vacuum' tho, the usa folx got reformatted heads but immediately filled up with ???.
mircea_popescu: do you realise girls here are ~so fucking moronic~ they will hang out with their mothers IN THEIR TWENTIES ?
asciilifeform: i thought that was argentines
mircea_popescu: every civilised female has the same reaction, utter disbelief, "omfg i'd have been too ashamed to do this at 15"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it's latino "culture" so to speak, tho it has entirely nothing to do with culture, much like "they fuck mud with sticks all day" isn't "african industry", it's just african nothing.
asciilifeform: indeed, physiological thrashing, like beheaded chicken's
asciilifeform: ( relatedly, i vaguely recall from some old lit that the turks amused themselves by cauterizing beheadee's stump to see if he can be made to chicken, i.e. not bleed out right off, but dun recall source or whether it worked )
mircea_popescu: i make a lot of noise about dungeons and chains and whips and etc ; but it is a kind of a society game. i am not prepared, neither mentally nor for that matter materially, to ~actually~ apply all that. because yes, the convertor exists, kidnap among the moronic 3bn, but i mean literally, not play-pretendingly, self-delivered "kidnaps", and then torture them into being enslaved orcs rather than plain orcs.
mircea_popescu: fact of the matter is i need 1800s style southern us slaves like i need genital warts.
asciilifeform: i dun see how it could possibly be worth the effort, lacking cotton for'em to pick
mircea_popescu: and even then
asciilifeform: iirc even there they simply threw the less-compliant 80% into the sea
asciilifeform: to get something to work with
mircea_popescu: (a matter little discussed in the abundant "literature" was the implicit brain drain southern economy imposed on southern us. ie, intelligent boys in the newyork-london sphere migrated rather towards new york (hence all the jews, at the time monopolists of intelligence, hence the hatred but different line all that) ; whereas intelligent kids on the st louis-paris line migrated rather to paris. because nothing the fuck to do i
mircea_popescu: n the south if you're not stupid.)
asciilifeform: fundamental problem with agriculture. if you aint a herbivore, being involved in just about any direct capacity makes you wanna eat yer pistol
mircea_popescu: precisely. but it is not ~with agriculture~. it's with... the people involved in agriculture!
mircea_popescu: the reason "all good things flow to the city" is, and for 3k years has been, "i'd rather hang out with thieves than with farmers holy shit you lot are moronic. really, go to bed at 5pm ?"
mircea_popescu: it's not agriculture per se. it's not the land, it's that the land both fosters and nurtures a certain mindset among those troding upon it. too much "all is well" and way the fuck too much "nothing could ever change" and so on. hence, "my mom's just as good a master as could ever be had!" and hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-12#1871537 : in rural environs kids too dumb to find their own fucking holes on their own fucking ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-12 16:44 asciilifeform: even on asciilifeform's home planet, good chunk of marriages were 'soft-arranged' -- i.e. 'comrade colonel, you have a bachelor son, i have a ripe daughter' 'comrade lt colonel, let's box'em in a room, wainot'
mircea_popescu: power.
asciilifeform: as i understand , stupidity is occupational hazard of agro-anyffing, and percolates insidiously , like gamma ray
mircea_popescu: and hence "Pangloss was professor of metaphysico-theologico-cosmolo-nigology. He proved admirably that there is no effect without a cause, and that, in this best of all possible worlds, the Baron's castle was the most magnificent of castles, and his lady the best of all possible Baronesses."
asciilifeform: 'even had glass in windows!11'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. the romans were agricultural folk, just as much as the alwa or the indians making wootz steel.
asciilifeform: didn't they staff it mostly with zeks tho
asciilifeform: ( under overseers earning commission )
mircea_popescu: not originally. the might as well as the power of the republic was ~entirely~ agricultural. cincinnatus is not famous for "turning down the purple", but for ~turning down the purple to go back to ploughing."!
mircea_popescu: all latin classicity bemoans the loss of agricultural tradition, their hightly regarded source of intelligence and manliness.
asciilifeform: i'll admit that i credit 'cincinnatus plowing with own 2 hands' approx as much as i credit king arthur
asciilifeform: difficult to picture .
mircea_popescu: no, i believe the story is factual. man was out ploughing, with own two hands, senate legati came to talk to him, asked him to go put his toga on.
mircea_popescu: sounds exactly like 1700s pennsylvania. and the reason it does is because it is.
asciilifeform: there's a reason he's a quasi-mythical figure, tho, like diogen
mircea_popescu: i dunno what yo umean by quasi. am i quasi-mythical figure ?
asciilifeform: 100 y from nao ? prolly
mircea_popescu: nonsense.
asciilifeform: 'really , he whipped'em himself ? did he also refine own copper '
mircea_popescu: diogenes pushed his tub, cincinnatus ploughed his field, i... i dunno, took weird pictures of myself put them on trilema.
mircea_popescu: people do things, that's why there's a history in the first place.
asciilifeform: indeed consists of record of folx who could actually be arsed to do things..
mircea_popescu: history doesn't exist because grandchildren wanked it in the bed at night ; history exists because grandfathers fucked grandmothers.
mircea_popescu: your whole argument is essentially seinfeld's "oh, my parents having sex... i dunno... i haven't seen it... as far as i know they could maybe be just really, REALLY good friends!"
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: "it's possible" right ? except no, it fucking ain't.
asciilifeform: my point was that cincinnatus was 'typical farmer' like mircea_popescu is 'typical photographer'
asciilifeform: ( pro turtle-flipper!111 )
mircea_popescu: but it wasn't proposed he's "typical" or "normal" or in any way reduce his person to some kind of http://trilema.com/2016/the-herd-of-independent-minds-or-has-the-avantgarde-its-own-mass-culture/#selection-87.551-87.706 falsity. when i call my slave "a slave" i do not by any possible read propose that "she has some kind of slave nature" like nail polish or something.
asciilifeform: then sure
mircea_popescu: it was proposed he was a fucking farmer, in the proper and only sense, like fucking carlyle. farming is a thing BECAUSE cincinnatus farfmed, and bdsm is a thing because MP bdsm's.
mircea_popescu: that there's a bunch of moronic kids over at hot topic in the mall doing "the industry" of things men do... what the fuck of it ?
asciilifeform: i do suspect that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871847 was 'admiration from a distance' rather than factual tho. sorta like marie antoinette's milkmaid career. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:24 mircea_popescu: all latin classicity bemoans the loss of agricultural tradition, their hightly regarded source of intelligence and manliness.
mircea_popescu: circero's certainly was, man had the diseased of comfortable middle class men.
mircea_popescu: cato's... more dubiously.
mircea_popescu: he sounds boer if anything.
mircea_popescu: and that's yet another fine example, see ? french men go to louisiana, produce us south a century later. dutch men go to transvaal, produce south africa a century later.
mircea_popescu: farming. with black slaves. both times.
asciilifeform: there's definitely factual substance to the archetype of 'farmer ready to pick up weapon and defend his not-needing-the-city-for-anyffing', hence the festivities in '20s ru re tambov rebellion ( where the reds pretty much brought back ivan iv's methods, incl. mass impalement ) to put down
mircea_popescu: right ?
asciilifeform: right, point
asciilifeform: possibly this kinda thing even still exists today, in e.g. afgan
asciilifeform: ( where cultivate poppy with ~barehands and the only 'modern' tech held in any esteem is kalash )
mircea_popescu: well, if it exists somewhere we haven't found it yet ; but it certainly informs reasoning lines such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846537 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 15:28 mircea_popescu: like it or not, man has some responsibilities to rhodesia.
mircea_popescu: "why does he ?" "because maybe they're doing it right, and that's fucking binding, on the entire world."
asciilifeform: i suspect - if it exists - you'd need a quite long drill to get to it
mircea_popescu: so we're building drills.
mircea_popescu: hardware, amirite ? what's a bit, what's a byte.
asciilifeform: heh
asciilifeform: selective tech adoption is imho a fascinating thing. even the amerinds, for all their miswired heads, picked up horse and rifle and carried on 300+ yrs past their expiration date. ( picture if they had also had radio ! )
asciilifeform: i suspect that a good chunk of the 'organizational win' from cityism can be cut away from the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871872 , to interesting result ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:32 mircea_popescu: circero's certainly was, man had the diseased of comfortable middle class men.
asciilifeform: picture golden horde with cryptoradio.
mircea_popescu: anyway, but the important point can't be overstated enough. it's not a matter of terra-ad-limine, whereby the county is from this limit to that limit to that other limit, and as long as you're not past the limits therefore you're inside and thereby anjie is "in tech" (hey, you can't prove she's out, right ? therefore she;s in ?) and also thereby http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/#selection-145.61-145.72 stands as a party
mircea_popescu: (hey, you can't prove it isn't a party!!!) and other such http://trilema.com/2011/voi-ce-ati-facut-in-viata-asta-ba/#selection-119.375-119.430 nonsense.
mircea_popescu: it's a matter of columnae lucum, whereby ~THIS~, and this and only this and this only is the epitome, and everyone around is closer or further to that epitome, and at the outskirts it becomes unclear if there's even a relation at all or not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall ancient trilema piece , about some derp working in (iirc) google, where you had 'if industry were a rifle, he'd be the fouling on the barrel' ?
asciilifeform: 'city' seems to inescapably produce huge qty of such 'fouling'. i find interesting the q of what is 'carnot efficiency' of city, what if anyffing worx to keep down the waste product ( of the most toxic type -- bipedal )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole fucking point of http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/ (especially as coupled with http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/ ) is that the world has substantially changed, and there is ~no further win~ to be had from cityism, and a WHOLE lot of cost to be eaten. which is ~the fucking point~ of http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/ : given the
mircea_popescu: change, objective and unyielding, of the wheel coming cycle and the up being now down and the shoe on the other foot, "the elders" sat and thought for a half second and decided between boys and walls they'd rather have the walls.
mircea_popescu: consequently, boys gotta be boys lest they break down the walls. and that was that for anglo culture.
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry, i mean
mircea_popescu: consequently, boys gotta be bois lest they break down the walls. and that was that for anglo culture.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's q wasn't 'whether 4th reich is ripe for the visigoths', seems pretty clear that it is. but whether the entire cycle, where manchu horsemen , 'free and manly' , invade, then turn into fat and idjit empress cixi, is escapable or not
asciilifeform: i guess could rewrite the eqn into the q of whether people are actually smarter than prikoke the pig, or no
mircea_popescu: i and my slaves might laugh at stupid local girlies, "20 in her mom's tow" and at stupid 50yos who are trying to ~now~ be slutty, as if time somehow waited for them to take the 35 years they "needed" to achieve 35 months' worth of intellectual maturation. but as troglodyte as http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-423.0-423.517 readily marks all of latino morons in the eyes of any euro whore i ever kne
mircea_popescu: w, nevertheless, NEVERTHELESS!!!! they are way ahead of the anglotarded chicks who http://trilema.com/2018/an-examination-of-conflict/ ie try to enforce "the elders". oh, john, daddy said "sit down, sit down, sit down you're rocking the boat", we'd better sit down!!!
mircea_popescu: so in a very specific, and very purple and meaty sense, the moronic lartinos are way the fuck ahead of the moronic anglos.
asciilifeform: seems that mircea_popescu still prefers the anglo chix as raw material in refinery tho
mircea_popescu: (and this, for the record, is also why i think very little of eg pete_dushenski's private committments : http://trilema.com/2015/very-bad-things/#selection-37.0-37.32 female misbehaviour exists ~specifically~ and strictly and only because they're covering up for this fundamental "between boys and walls daddy chose walls, don't upset him".
asciilifeform: so evidently not too ahead
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. this is the fucking problem, if faced with the choice of the crashed bmw or the new toyota i'd still buy and fix the crashed bmw.
asciilifeform: makessense.
mircea_popescu: because i get it, toyota "new from factory", but it's a stupid fucking factory i want little do to with.
asciilifeform: do 'new toyota' come with win10 nao, or notyet
mircea_popescu: i'd rather have bayernische body hammered back into an approximation of its original, genotypic shape, than mexican body as its mom made it.
mircea_popescu: nfi, but i'm not even discussing that. i am discussing THE LINE
mircea_popescu: the problem of art is that the freehand line is the hardest thing i nthe world. put pen to paper, and draw it, and see.
asciilifeform: right. but iirc e.g. new porche is ~= newtoyota.
mircea_popescu: "but mp, why do you think these squigglies are worth millions, there's not even color on them"
mircea_popescu: "fuck you, i'll burn your fambly in da vinci's oven to heat him while he draws another"
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as an incorrect line -- proven by the fact that the overwhelmingly vast majority of them are.
mircea_popescu: some guys draw correct lines, that's all there is to it.
asciilifeform: seems that we're already in 'late rome' in re 'best tech lives at antique shop', just about across the board
mircea_popescu: either that or 1492 and cinquecento about to turn in
mircea_popescu: an obscure man named something or the other sorta-landed on the shore of crypto a few years ago.
asciilifeform: wheel -- turns.
mircea_popescu: funnily enough, a) he thought he had found "the west indies" and b) he landed on some skirting islands, never found mainland.
mircea_popescu: wheel -- turns -- ALWAYS THE SAME WAY. exept sameness visible only retrospectively.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform ~decade ago went to a traditional american festivity, gigantic flea market where small arms bought and sold in open air. found it interesting that the most valuable wares were not even antiques in the usual sense, of century+, but 1970s-80s : apparently the 'peak' of the tech, modern calibers and 0 zamac.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: ( to be fair, not only zamac in this story, but peculiarity of gringostani politics where 'pre-ban' xyz is a thing )
asciilifeform: all this in re 'crashed bmw better than new toyota' files.
asciilifeform: rusty 'tommy', apparently also better than brand-new ???.
asciilifeform: they come with pedigree papers, too, like picasso ( with the diff that typically if you buy mispedigreed picasso, you dun get jailed for 20y )
mircea_popescu: lots of that. but really it comes down to http://trilema.com/2015/what-was-the-lomax-any-why-was-it-there-and-who-could-have-lifted-it-to-take-it-somewhere/#selection-67.0-67.13 versus https://www.amore.ng/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Leonardo-Da-Vinci-Jesus-YouTube.jpg and guess what the fuck wins.
mircea_popescu: the fucking line. pen on a paper.
mircea_popescu: and, amusingly, everyone's now a "designer", that design's so fucking dead... do you ever look at classical soviet oh of courese you do, the buran discussion right ? that item had a line to it, and you can tell from a glance it was made by humans.
asciilifeform: damn thing certainly had 'line'. like mig9.
asciilifeform: felt just about like you could get on the thing and fly.
mircea_popescu: i visited this jewish doctor here, and he looked at my retinas, with this old set he had. i asked him how old it is, and he said "maybe thirty years". "yeah, thirty years counting from the 90s ?"
mircea_popescu: cuz you can fucking tell, a little lantern with mirrors in a case.
asciilifeform: prettu sure '90s was when you could last get one without winblowz on it, yes
asciilifeform: asciilifeform worked in places where 1980s e.g. mass spectrometer, and not because no budget for 1+$mil to replace it, but because nobody wants the 'upgrade' with win vista
asciilifeform: folx cling to the old, working gear for dear life
mircea_popescu: cuz it is dear life.
mircea_popescu: or at any rate the only available approximation thereof.
asciilifeform: i recall thread with BingoBoingo re old iron electric drill. i see'em at flea markets routinely, nobody buys, and then the idjits go to 'home despot' shop and load up on chinesium that breaks in half after 17 uses
asciilifeform: whereas 1940s vintage item still runs 100%
mircea_popescu: the reason "roman art treasure lie forgotten" was specifically that what the fuck is german peasant to do with it lmao.
asciilifeform: quite obvious re 'roman art', but less so re workaday obj like drill
asciilifeform: i'd naively think that the iron drill would be quite exciting find for current-day carpenter
mircea_popescu: roman art WAS workaday obj lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and aqueduct also exciting for medieval town ?
asciilifeform: slightly diff item, aqueduct requires maintenance to some degree
asciilifeform: but i see the point
mircea_popescu: everything requires maintenance. that's the difference of art : man made, requires maintenance.
asciilifeform: troo
mircea_popescu: (art here is used in the classical, and only proper sense. same cognate as "artificial", not "artistic". there is no such fucking thing as "artistic" not anymore than there's "tech industry" or "nation of africa" -- broken abstractions borne of "perceived need" of the ignorant)
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: ( in sane langs afaik this distinction is quite clear right off the page )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871739 << jesus fuck this is what people don't like about emulators. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:09 ave1: then in the inline assembly code, you do something like: mov %0, %%x0
asciilifeform: btw ave1 i'm pretty sure i recall that gnat knows how to eat godly asm syntax instead of %%%%%%%%%'gas'liquishit
asciilifeform: imho at&t asm syntax is a fucking plague
asciilifeform: and defo belongs on the list of what the gnu people will be held to answer for
asciilifeform: ( gcc, objdump, as, etc ALL default to it, ugly as sin as pointlessly verbose )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871767 << i can see it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:25 asciilifeform: so a proper asmification potentially yields 5-10x speedup 'for phree' , all else being equal
asciilifeform: and i'll add that the name 'intel format' for the SANE asm syntax, is misnomer -- i had an assembler for e.g. c64, that ate an' shat sane form, and no intel was involved in any shape
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc just comba (basecase mul) alone, if asmified, is 8x speedup , even if all else left alone
asciilifeform: ( cuz that's where most time spent when rsa )
asciilifeform: this of course in barrett reduction variant. ( otherwise most time spend in fz_div )
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/numerous-western-fiat-governments-pushing-for-new-wave-of-internet-totalitarianism/ << Qntra - Numerous Western Fiat "Governments" Pushing For New Wave of Internet Totalitarianism
asciilifeform: gold.
asciilifeform: 'Likewise, the moment Macron finished his speech, up popped a Microsoft blog post heralding the speech as a "an important step toward peace and security in the digital world."'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: 'Building upon successful hash sharing efforts to further assist in proactive removal of illicit content. ... Setting ambitious industry standards, and increasing assistance to smaller companies in developing and deploying illicit content counter-measures. Building and enhancing capabilities to counter foreign interference and disinformation. ... Artificial Intelligence-driven solutions.' << lol
asciilifeform: 'spread disinformation and discord to undermine our democratic institutions'
mircea_popescu: "our commitment to protect our citizens from child predators, terrorists, violent extremists and other illicit actors." << o look, it expanded.
mircea_popescu: i fucking hope there's a war already.
asciilifeform: lol war of whom vs whom -- reich vs miamistan ?
asciilifeform: what i can't wrap my head around is why nobody's mass-produced a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-11#1871212 and put an end to the whole 'digital evidence' 'rule of law' pretense circus ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-11 17:05 asciilifeform: incidentally, unmanned 'dc in flat' is imho a potential useful application for ciphered/zeroized-on-disturbance hdd item discussed some wks ago.
asciilifeform: even if only 1 in 10 btc supposedly 'selling at marshals auction' factually exists, that's still ridiculously many coinz that fell into enemy hands when absolutely oughta have gone to /dev/null
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform china (prolly + russia) vs us and its colonies.
asciilifeform: shortest ever war, all they gotta do is stop feeding
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how useless the anglos are. do you know that in ALL OF CHICAGO 100% of the "bitcoin market" consists of this one inept fed ?
asciilifeform: ( not mega-seekrit, nuffing in usgdom that sails, flies, or drives, moves so much as centimetre without steady supply of chinesium )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the advertised market ? not particularly surprised
asciilifeform: sorta how 'online dope market' is 100% usg.dea
mircea_popescu: chicago is a sort of indiana. there is no other market.
mircea_popescu: just a bunch of inept niggers. ran away from missouri century ago, recreated missouri in michigan.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu says -- i believe
asciilifeform: ( i think of chicago as a kind of massive open air бомжатник , from own experiences there )
mircea_popescu: and i don't mean, "stop feeding", i mean chinese troops marching in new york, tearing down statue of liberty to replace with huge penis, and forcing everyone to do by-hand electronics picking for the rest of their miserable woirtheless lives.
mircea_popescu: respectively, russians going over to paris, taking all the huysmans building and movingthem in voronetz reservation/park.
mircea_popescu: leaving the "french" ie algerians literally the bare ground.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if history's any guide, chinese dun like white devils enuff to actually leave'em alive and use for cotton-pick. i see straight glassing as moar likely
mircea_popescu: also works.
asciilifeform: ru in paris at least has precedent.
mircea_popescu: should have taken the fucking buildings.
asciilifeform: ( where fr got 'bistro' do you suppose. )
asciilifeform: in so far as i can tell with naked eye, 'the war' 1) already happened 2) china won 3) at ~0 cost, in the trad chinese style
asciilifeform: they do ~whatever they like, have ~99% of modern industry inside border, and look at 'west' like we look at chimp in zoo
asciilifeform: ( observe, nobody 'declared war' on chimp )
asciilifeform: they junkyardwars'd together a working ottoman-style org system ought of sumthing like '80s su -- sorta like we trb from prb etc
asciilifeform: it's already to the point where 'white devil' knows automagically where not to walk so as to not step on chinese foot, if he wants to keep both feet
asciilifeform: even absent gigantic cock statue in nyc.
mircea_popescu: sadly, this is quite so.
mircea_popescu: the item i present would be improvement, and the costs for the improvement are externalised (ie, not borne by they benefitting)
asciilifeform: i haven't the faintest idea re just how the yellow hieroglyph folx pulled it off. but apparently they did.
mircea_popescu: how. i'll tell you fucking how.
asciilifeform: i suppose it began with the untimely death of their apex predator, jp
asciilifeform if could pick dead empire to fight for, quite fond of hirohito's
asciilifeform sings, '同期の桜...'
mircea_popescu: well, apparently i can't find it anymore. is line in log somewhere, "if you understand, like ro girls understood in the 90s, that your cunt does not belong to you, the place will stay cool for slightly longer" or somesuch.
asciilifeform: it was in trilema
asciilifeform: re 'roaring '90s'
mircea_popescu: goes with that whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-27#1729826 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-27 17:57 mircea_popescu: "Итак, тебе не заплачу я: Но если ты простая блядь, То знай: за честь должна считать Знакомство юнкерского хуя!" is not some kind of fucking joke.
mircea_popescu: ah that's possible, yeah
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno whether the shoe fits tho, afaik china is very much a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871815 kind of affair ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:10 mircea_popescu: more retarded. non-anglo women still need traditional "patriarchy" dissolved out of their stupid heads, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-06#1869904
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> chicago is a sort of indiana. there is no other market. << It grew as a sorta suburb of Texas/Kansas/etcetera as they place they sent their standing cattle to get canned for sale and consumption out east.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> just a bunch of inept niggers. ran away from missouri century ago, recreated missouri in michigan. << Yeah, chattle followed cattle
mircea_popescu: !Qlater tell spyked to continue the thing that never ends : http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/#footnote_0_34776 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802173 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 20:08 spyked: LordMPofTMSR, I had no idea. and looking for mihaita dragomirescu, all I found was news items a la http://archive.is/ojKnE and other cancans. if ye know for a fact this is not made-up scandal, then I believe, but otherwise... eh.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, point being "if the baby fails to grow up the house it lived in will be taken over by rats". ie, K selection failure leads to r overwhelming it.
asciilifeform: this yes
asciilifeform: personally asciilifeform is fascinated by modern cn and wtf makes it tick
asciilifeform: it's evidently very diff animal than the zimbabwe that got its arse handed to it in '30s
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is the scientific name for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799837 and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-12#1161937 indistinctly ) ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:46 mircea_popescu: buildings, however, are a very opposite attempt : the dismal resistance of air (and see also un prophete discussion of winds here) and the minimal and well understood constraint of gravity allow enough free space for design to be a thing.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-12 14:54 mircea_popescu: Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safe
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> personally asciilifeform is fascinated by modern cn and wtf makes it tick << The Japs next door grew up faster than the Chinese language could protect them for a few decades. Eventually homeostatis returned because it turned out Japan was not a Prussia of Asia.
mircea_popescu: not much less, either.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: near as i can tell, they ~were~ the prussia
asciilifeform: ( and today is approx as sad as today's prussia )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Real Prussia can't be an island
asciilifeform: sorta why 1st order of biz was to get the fuck off the island and eat china
asciilifeform: and succeeded, too
mircea_popescu: is it worse to fail in your attempt to unify all germany around you rather than "die Kais’rin hat sich mit dem Franzosen alliiert" austrian schmucks ? or to succed only to fail a few short decades later, twice, and over the fucking failure of your admiral to BRAVERY ?
asciilifeform: ( until idjit 'west' came to fuck up the 'uppity yellow' )
BingoBoingo: Failure of potential actor to BRAVERY out of overweighing emperor's cautions seems like the Imperial failure mode
mircea_popescu: verily.
BingoBoingo: Can't win if "try not to lose too much material" turns into "Imma impress the Kaiser by prioritizing not losing ANY material attacking"
BingoBoingo: If only the Graf Spee had limped to port in Buenos Aires instead of limping to Montevideo
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871781 << one of you, diana_coman phf mod6 asciilifeform do me a favour and properly genesisize v.pl huh! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:43 phf: asciilifeform: i've posted a v.pl patch http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867871 ( archived http://archive.is/ZJUMM ), unfortunately since v.pl doesn't have its own vtree, doing it properly requires a bunch of extra work
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's part and parcel of the promised write-up http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871705 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 08:10 diana_coman: fwiw I actually patched v.pl to use phf's vtools and it works absolutely fine; I guess I'll write-it up and publish the whole thing later today if nobody else does it
mircea_popescu: splendid then
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871787 << afaik his lisptron works to spec, and ~only exists~ because everyone harped poetic about how great lisp "would be", only to predictably return to more brackish "we use python" once someone actually made something that'd need such a wonder as the inexistent lisp machine. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:44 asciilifeform: possible exception is esthlos, but i have not tested his item yet
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in whatever, https://image.ibb.co/i6kXN0/idiots.jpg
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=76 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/30/2018
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lisptron was spyked
asciilifeform: ( and imho was pretty good start )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872055 << the major issue with using sbcl as a scripting lang in unixland is the 3-5sec (depending on iron) revv-up time ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871787 << afaik his lisptron works to spec, and ~only exists~ because everyone harped poetic about how great lisp "would be", only to predictably return to more brackish "we use python" once someone actually made something that'd need such a wonder as the inexistent lisp machine.
asciilifeform: ( the down side of it being pure-compiler internally )
mircea_popescu: noo, didn't estlos make a lisp v ?
asciilifeform: vtron -- yes he did
asciilifeform: it's in my pipe to test.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: ( i did read it, was pretty interesting read imho )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:00 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's part and parcel of the promised write-up http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871705
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:41 asciilifeform: i expect to post the reground ch1-11 today; folx who read whichever chapters, will be invited to send in seals
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872057 << dafuq's that ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:23 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in whatever, https://image.ibb.co/i6kXN0/idiots.jpg
mircea_popescu: lumea s-a schimbat!!!
mircea_popescu: that is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-12#1871537 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-12 16:44 asciilifeform: even on asciilifeform's home planet, good chunk of marriages were 'soft-arranged' -- i.e. 'comrade colonel, you have a bachelor son, i have a ripe daughter' 'comrade lt colonel, let's box'em in a room, wainot'
asciilifeform: d00d holding his sister down for her first waltz or wat.
asciilifeform brb,teatime
asciilifeform: !Q later tell nicoleci s/chipher/cipher , s/Bansky/Banksy , plz
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'items stumbled into in oldl0gz-walking', http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744462 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 21:11 gabriel_laddel: rable' it is simply has no academic interests & probably spends most of their time seeking or finding sexual release (ie #tweaker nation tumblr females. Notice, very few post about meth and the read much closer to 'Ive no purpose, need to reproduce, NOW. What you like meth? OKAYSUREWHATEVERMETOOJUSTFUCKMEALREADY'). The catch however is that you've
asciilifeform: whatever happened to that d00d.
asciilifeform: ( i half-suspect he's dead, for some reason )
BingoBoingo: I took days of rumouring before the locals figured out Honored Uncle Terry's death was newsworth
BingoBoingo: y
asciilifeform: hey edgar poe barfed to death on park bench in bmore, i've been to what claimed to be this very same holy spot.
asciilifeform: ( closest thing north amer ever produced to a poet, imho )
BingoBoingo: Give it 15 years, teen girls will be getting Uncle Terry tattoos and TempleOS devices will be onsale at Spencer's gifts
asciilifeform: lol if only d00d had baked an actual os, instead of the run-in-vmware thingie
asciilifeform: do you recall BingoBoingo , he came upon my www one time ?
BingoBoingo: I thought it was several times
asciilifeform: said only 1 thing, sumthing like 'motherfucker, you stole my name'
BingoBoingo: LoseTheOS
asciilifeform: ( i guess he liked to play 'anagram' and lose letters.. )
asciilifeform: hm, apparently i linked to him , back in the old days, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=36
asciilifeform: prolly how he found.
BingoBoingo: Goes with what other behavioral aspects of his neurology suggest
asciilifeform: www.losethos.com << holy hell, link farm nao
asciilifeform: 'FACTORS THAT AFFECT THE APPEARANCE OF A DRESS AND MAKES IT LOOK SPECIAL' etc etc
asciilifeform: sad.
phf: asciilifeform: i've booted templeos on a real hardware
asciilifeform: oh hey
asciilifeform: phf: what iron was it ?
asciilifeform: i never achieved this feat
asciilifeform: ( and not from lack of try )
phf: i had a 300mhz amd that i brought from russia when i moved here in the 90s, but it finally gave out couple of years ago. i suspect booting templeos was one of the last things i did with it..
asciilifeform: notbad
asciilifeform: iirc thing needs a proper vesa 2.0 vga card, so this makes sense.
asciilifeform wonders if anybody bothered to mirror davis's last known release
phf: right, i think i maxed out the memory and the drive sometime in the mid 2000s, but otherwise it was "gorbushka" stock
phf: http://www.templeos.org/TempleOS.iso
asciilifeform: aah hm
asciilifeform: so i had old link.
asciilifeform: i could prolly get it to run on something or other, i think i still have old 'matrox' somewhere, if we ever come to where we want this.
phf: there's an entire archive.org of his stuff apparently. he's a hipster programmer celebrity though
asciilifeform: 'safely dead', so i guess makes sense, turned into harmless lolcat.
asciilifeform: '20 phunphakts didja know on reddit! there was a mad d00d, tried to write a working os, despite not working at microshit or even having codeofconduct..' i picture.
asciilifeform: https://archive.org/download/TerryADavis_TempleOS_Archive << indeed, nao housed in usg.loc archive..
asciilifeform: https://archive.org/download/TerryADavis_TempleOS_Archive/email/Templar%20mailinglist/ << various lulz
asciilifeform: e.g. , http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pno5n/?raw=true
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872069 -> http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/13/v-with-vtools-keccak-hashes-and-its-own-tree/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron
asciilifeform: yay!
asciilifeform reads
deedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/13/v-with-vtools-keccak-hashes-and-its-own-tree/ << Ossasepia - V with VTools, Keccak Hashes and Its Own Tree
diana_coman: I've tested it quickly on my Rockchip itself and I couldn't spot any trouble, but let me know if you find any problems with it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: vk.pl doesn't find the vpatch executable in the current dir ( this is not hard to fix tho, i'ma fix )
asciilifeform: aaah nm they gotta be in PATH
diana_coman: true, it expects it to be in PATH
asciilifeform: yea took me a min
diana_coman: or symlink I suppose, whatever rocks your boat
asciilifeform: diana_coman: confirmed, worx, a++++
diana_coman: yay!
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2743 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic Regrind into Keccak-V Format.
asciilifeform: ^ folx who sent in seals for the old patches, are invited to carry out press/diff/reseal and send in new, at their leisure ^
asciilifeform: ty for the help, diana_coman , phf , et al
asciilifeform: ^ updated with link to convenient tarball + signature ^
asciilifeform: behold, above is just above 64kB.