jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 428610 | Current Difficulty: 2.2075590833037228E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 429407 | Next Difficulty In: 797 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 608.93, vol: 4038.84594708 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 608.253, vol: 4853.26157 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 615.2, vol: 3078.1683089 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 612.746414, vol: 146496.84330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 613.318, vol: 486.39297549 | Volume-weighted last average: 612.561510532
shinohai: Notice jhvh1 doesn't require a "more"
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
mircea_popescu: you know this "you are very welcome daddy" think keeps reminding me of this ... i don't recall, maybe a succession of sms captions ? where a clearly competent streetwalker (of the sort that lives on street most days, checks into motel now and again) was assuring some random dude that she doesn't mind his friend beating her up.
shinohai: trinque: thx I just always found it annoying griible required a ;;more when it all fits in 2 lines fine.
trinque: shinohai: yes but otherwise it wouldn't have had room for the ;;more
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well even with bots the patriarchy must be established
shinohai considers adding the Big Book to the scriptorium for BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: You don't need to add the whole thing. Just the steps and the traditions.
jhvh1: 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-16 21:39 asciilifeform: 'mr carter, you aren't cleared for this, and if you ask again there will be problems.'
mircea_popescu: a government can never be solvent ; a government can never operate legally.
☟︎ deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
alice_: hi! today i'm reading {The Timeless Way of Building}. i'm curious if you've read anything by Christopher Alexander
alice_: mm. it's a mix of theoretical and applied architecture. generalizes nicely to all of design.
shinohai wonders if this is the alice_ he is always reading about in gpg manuals.
alice_: if i had a dollar every time somebody made that joke
shinohai: Glad I could do my part to make it economically viable for you.
alice_: i read
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=401. it doesn't mention design patterns. i'm p sure i can guess correctly the bad thing it's complaining about, but i didn't get a model for how design patterns are a language bug
alice_: right, macro is an excellent way to use patterns in code (and is itself a pattern)
alice_: list[:-1] vs (drop-last list)
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
boolcrap: sieg heil stan joseph joseph goebbels
boolcrap: had to google, then pasted pad.
boolcrap: you getting alot of work done alf?
boolcrap: i finally got official access to the place i am a contractor for
alice_: afaict christopher alexander is using "pattern" to mean a basic component of language, not the thing which macros remove
boolcrap: but I have learned from you well so
boolcrap: i set the bar very low for myself
boolcrap: im going to stan the crap out of these guys in your honor!
boolcrap: they have me doing odd jobs, doing prep work for a RE course they teaching at UM
boolcrap: also ive been working not-bare-iron1.0
alice_: i feel ick about nonhomoiconic *and* never-infix
alice_: seems to be a lot more natural language for a lot of humans for a lot of things
alice_: maybe not you :) but me.
alice_: invertible compilers solve that problem tho pretty nicely
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
alice_: i haven't figured out how to scale them up to something as syntax-complicated as javascript but i've found 80/20s pretty useful for practical infixy needs
alice_: i seriously tried lisp, i spent hundreds of hours coding in a variety of lisps, including clojure (ugh) and arc (lovely but it was for a production web server and it was completely unsuited to the purpose)
alice_: i don't think as easy without shit like x/2 and list[:-1]
alice_: ┌───────────── [ ──────────────┐ ┌───────────── ⇧[ ─────────────┐
alice_: │ _ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹ ⁰ ⁻ ⁼ _ │ │ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ⁽ ⁾ _ ⁺ _ │
alice_: │ _ X ʷ ᵉ ʳ ᵗ ʸ ᵘ ⁱ ᵒ ᵖ _ _ _ │ │ _ X ᵂ ᴱ ᴿ ᵀ X ᵁ ᴵ ᴼ ᴾ _ _ _ │
☟︎ alice_: │ _ ᵃ ˢ ᵈ ᶠ ᵍ ʰ ʲ ᵏ ˡ _ _ _ │ │ _ ᴬ ᴮ ᴰ X ᴳ ᴴ ᴶ ᴷ ᴸ _ _ _ │
alice_: │ _ ᶻ ˣ ᶜ ᵛ ᵇ ⁿ ᵐ _ _ _ _ │ │ _ X X X ⱽ X ᴺ ᴹ _ _ _ _ │
alice_: └──────────────────────────────┘ └──────────────────────────────┘
alice_: a homoiconic format for binding keyboard keys
alice_: sort of, i think i misuse homoiconic
trinque: what do you think it means?
alice_: the program structure is similar to its syntax. in this case, the code for shift is ⇧ and can be typed by ⏻⇧
alice_: & the syntax is similar to a literal keyboard when possible
alice_: that's {power key}⇧ if you haven't installed any exotic fonts. it's macbook-specific.
trinque: so, what brought you here?
alice_: asciilifeform seems potentially entertaining
boolcrap: he is actually the most interesting man alive
trinque: mircea_popescu: somebody got out her crayons
boolcrap: at our old job we hired him just so he would come out to lunch with us
trinque: alice_: are you homeless by chance?
alice_: you give cute insults tho
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:06:18] <asciilifeform> 'Really, I think it’s too late for mainstream “Linux”. It’s gone. It’s done. Geeks of the world were easily fooled by a shiny new toy and a corporate propaganda campaign to match, without considering the engineering implications. You can still use a real (systemd-free) version of Linux, or move toward the BSDs, but if you stay with the
scriba: easy-to-use, polished distros, you’re no longer really using Linux. You’re just fooli
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:53:54] <alice_> afaict christopher alexander is using "pattern" to mean a basic component of language, not the thing which macros remove
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [01:56:09] <asciilifeform> i could live the rest of my life without infix, quite happily.
alice_: mm, not my fetish. as long as you get off on it :)
alice_: what do you mean, who am i?
alice_: i'm alice. i haven't interacted with this channel before. but i don't imagine that's the answer you're hoping for
☟︎ mircea_popescu is vaguely unsurprised that rando who spends his time vaguely considering "invertible compilers" for, obviously, javascript, has yet to actually produce a definition for itself.
alice_: i take it back, your insults are annoying
ben_vulpes: in other news, the much-maligned littoral combat ships can't keep water out of their engine lube systems and so the surface force commander has ordered the entire 'fleet' stand down
ben_vulpes: one apparently destroyed an engine ("engineering casualty") and another hosed it's combining gears?!
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, womenz also can't keep seawater out of their engine lube system, which is why surffucking is so strictly limited to teenagers.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i recall a month or so ago when this happened and they tried to blame it on the crew.
ben_vulpes: ofc blame it on the crew, what is lockheed to deliver serviceable machines with complete manuals all of a sudden?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 02:11 alice_: │ _ X ʷ ᵉ ʳ ᵗ ʸ ᵘ ⁱ ᵒ ᵖ _ _ _ │ │ _ X ᵂ ᴱ ᴿ ᵀ X ᵁ ᴵ ᴼ ᴾ _ _ _ │
ben_vulpes: subject of manuals, a onetime airforce honcho straigh up vetoed the delivery of f22 manuals in xml (!), as pilots couldn't take the un-sensitive stuff home without also taking the sensitive stuff home as it was delivered
ben_vulpes: and also, approximating his words "look with all the software problems they'd already delivered in the planes i wasn't about to impose more on the poor pilots during their studies. plus, opportunity to hose the suppliers."
alice_: asciilifeform: never used any of those. a fan of some of their patterns. i'm a fan of a lot of patterns i've seen in a lot of different existing programming environments.
alice_: e.g. ML is a sharp, crystalline beauty, mostly useless for my direct purpose but v inspiring, 'cuz it's got several neat patterns that i don't see in most popular environments
ben_vulpes: typeset properly and segregated vault-reading from home-reading as the story goes
ben_vulpes: same guy was running ops when they took the f22s over the international date line
ben_vulpes: "hooo boy lemme tell you about the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on *that* mission!"
ben_vulpes: "at which point we had ready teams hot on airfields on 2 continents!"
alice_: asciilifeform: prints a regex character class which matches all of the code points in utf8 stdin
trinque: more importantly, are you now, or have you ever been a brony
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nobody's claiming the dollars are ever well spent, or that fucking is done in some new way
alice_: asciilifeform: ? like, if i paste the last several lines into it, i get \n -#'-:<>?LMX[\]-\_a-pr-zʳʷʸζᴱᴵᴼᴾ-ᵂᵉᵒᵖ-ᵘⁱ│
ben_vulpes: (but hey that particular porno is worth a watch, and that particular report of wastage entertaining)
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
alice_: oh, are you asking what regex_set.ζ is written in? it's ζ, which is almost javascript
alice_: i can do Normal Startup Coding Style if i want to, i just hate it so i don't when i don't have to
alice_: trinque: i don't like your face
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
alice_: usually i run modems on vegetable oil
trinque: there's a whole genre of japanese porn of this
mircea_popescu: it's not mirror, it's just girl with black shoes has right leg behind white shoe's lef
alice_: yes. if the keys are pressed within a small number of milliseconds.
alice_: then you are a person whose right hand gets tired and you should not use this exact system
jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
alice_: semicolon L is one handed
alice_: all chords i use frequently are one handed
alice_: i don't use α frequently
alice_: i added sd as a chord for ι because i do use ι frequently
alice_: it's my Standard pronoun, my It
alice_: most programmers use x or value
alice_: if they're smart enough to use a standard pronoun :P
trinque: or describing the damned value
alice_: violates huffman coding
alice_: huffman coding is important
alice_: short variables for simple common things; longer names for less common things
mircea_popescu: god almighty, it's like a pregnant idiot delivered stupid all over the fucking logs already.
alice_: i don't mind pressing s and d at the same time, myself
mircea_popescu: mk, ima go to bed. if anyone wants to talk to me send tells, i'm not gonna be reading this log.
alice_: i haven't ever interacted with this channel before :(
trinque: asciilifeform: they made more than one y'know
trinque: who are the other posited personalities
alice_: tell me about the thing you're confusing me with, i am curious
trinque: well I already mentioned another
alice_: do you have questions about me or
trinque: afaik you identify as a pony or some shit
☟︎ alice_: that's cuz you're an asshole
alice_: asciilifeform: i am a young transhumanist-hopeful type. i've supported myself with programming before; currently i'm living off savings & spending time studying shit
BingoBoingo: <alice_> e.g. ML is a sharp, crystalline beauty, mostly useless for my direct purpose but v inspiring, 'cuz it's got several neat patterns that i don't see in most popular environments << "v inspiring" is a term of art here
alice_: i honestly can't tell if you're insulting me or complimenting me
alice_: outside view says insult
alice_: mostly shitty website frontend & backend stuff
alice_: outside vs inside view; from Kahneman
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
jhvh1: 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
BingoBoingo: work the fucking step in your everyday life, with exactly the desperation of the dying
alice_: i don't do christianity
BingoBoingo: Many tried to find an easier, softer way, but they could not.
BingoBoingo: alice_: Not Xtianity, bolt it onto the belief system of your choice
alice_: i'm looking for a harder, more powerful way
BingoBoingo: Whether God as you understand him is Satan, Our Noodly host, or deedbot
jhvh1: 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
☟︎ alice_: am making progress on that. say 70% done.
jhvh1: 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
alice_: god's an asshole, and it's complicated. i'm ready for anything i can understand as progress.
BingoBoingo: alice_: Well no you aren't because there's lots of logs to read that you haven't. Go back to step2.
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
jhvh1: 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
BingoBoingo: But I have an inner peace to match my outer peace. What do you have today?
alice_: i actually only got it last saturday
alice_: asciilifeform: i am very confused by the social environment here :P
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "tradition2" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell shinohai pls to add 12 traditions
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am sorry for playing with the food.
alice_: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.55 Comment:
https://keybase.io/crypto xsFNBFevnesBEAC90aLfcq+wrWVKGcQWUd+NmB/0kK7OONd0Tg2OUgfHE2RtZSzG mqgsiAmyPsz+R6B3VwkMd3pBiuAZ8IN/jf0px+iikmo0vvWemsnVTUM0mtyoFecy /qyj1+mwjLrzR7UMDP8789JBwxecY+1fS6k4BQio3gGvmqzGr76sAjTZlIbkPs80 Nr502+QhvfOSjnjFTfQkXrzjrssjJp+jEH0OdkC/UT7H0lCWy957UPklwXlEPnu/ KQbcDoV2HWSEG0hW3Ig7+4qC03Bp0W9Z9lRTYZVIbTnDLJ+z4/J1fMu1EnmZkEKQ aH0SCtgI
a111: Logged on 2016-09-04 21:02 Nivir: $register 4A770EFC84943B04C4001A1D7A788522C8FBE0DA
alice_: i don't know what a longfp is
jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
alice_: because i never learned how it works and also i've never used that key for anything?
alice_: also, that's not a private key
alice_: sure, i wouldn't use it for anything important
alice_: i've never used a key before
BingoBoingo: <alice_> because i never learned how it works and also i've never used that key for anything? << See how it works <alice_> because i never learned how it works and also i've never used that key for anything?
trinque: There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. << does seem that most psychological issues involve deep dishonesty.
BingoBoingo: Sure, then there's Gavin folk who can't be honest
BingoBoingo: !~later tell mircea_popescu alice_ log was solved with a spiritual, not a religious solution
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
trinque: asciilifeform: that might be quite relevant
ben_vulpes: niad is a mispelling of something in that scratchpad
ben_vulpes: my efforts to avoid more pastepocalypsen result in typos
ben_vulpes: yeah, being not logged into gh makes it work
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 05:30 ben_vulpes: what was that which trinque nailed?
a111: Logged on 2015-12-03 16:55 adlai: industrious must be got rid of, for he is too dangerous."
☟︎ Framedragger: phf: thanks for adding scriba btcbase log's list of bots btw
☟︎ Framedragger: (sorry about log spam - i'll fork the bot into a development branch (new features and bugfix tests) which will run on a separate test channel.)
Framedragger: incidentally, how would one go about doing development across branches in V? or is that fiat fancy to be banished from all that is good? :)
Framedragger: btw ftr i want to thank punkman for recommending sopel bot (previously willie, if anyone's heard of it) as the core irc bot to be used. it's properly maintained, has clean code and good docs.
https://sopel.chat/ Framedragger: i want to try trinque's bot, too, but setting up sbcl etc and making sure things are reliable will have to wait for laters
shinohai: I used a willie bot a long time ago, was rather good
scriba: You need to give me a link to a specific IRC line so it can be quoted. Use either "from:line_number" or an anchor ("#line_number").
scriba: I do not have this date in my logs, I'm afraid.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 12:40 mircea_popescu: what ever happened to punkman anyway
mircea_popescu: btw, i'm writing a mega-piece on clinical psychiatry. so save yourself an hour this evening.
mircea_popescu: "we hate X guy" is politics, not ideology. gotta have an idea for to ideology.
Framedragger: you know, i recall shitty philosophy students dissing entire philosophical works by just calling them "platonic". can't really do justice by generalizing like that, can you now
Framedragger: asciilifeform:pankkake: the 'can't admit being wrong' thing is quite true, and whether you can afford dealing with mptronics, is very personal matter. so i do not actually disagree, as such, with pankkake.
Framedragger: "i'm more curious re kakobrekla's motivation for withholding any of the info."
Framedragger: "the only possible explanation is that not all of it contributes to the narrative he wants to build."
Framedragger: punkman:flimflams: "oops flushed the orderbook again", "oops mispaid dividends again", "HELLO I AM THE CEO OF BITCOIN, HERE IS THE BITCOIN EXAM, oh what do you mean btc addresses don't keep a balance?" "it's not socialized losses, it's btc cartelisation research" "you were being an asshole so I banned your mpex account"
Framedragger: ftr i haven't made up my mind and a man is more complex than just a binary state machine
mircea_popescu: anyway, so what's the problem ? guy thinks he's on to something, this is the bread and butter of a life of the mind.
Framedragger: my frustration with kako is that he doesn't think it's worth the time to write up a coherent narrative from his point of view. i'm sure it'd be useful to have it. maybe it's because it's impossible to have one in that case; maybe not; i for one don't fucking know
mircea_popescu: yeah well, these things take a while. go have einstein write up "his something" the year prior his writing it you know ?
mircea_popescu: this is fucking absurd, not like guy never saw me ? wtf.
mircea_popescu: is the idea here that "whatever, we've already fucked ourselves with anyone with a clue, might as well say things that'd perhaps persuade a fraction of anyone else" ? or what, is "nigerian" more of a state of mind than a state of pigmentation ?
Framedragger: totally sure it was meant with "mind". it's kinda gotten out of hand and is imho not constructive; i mean, to keep to this narrative but not put it into (coherent stream of) words
mircea_popescu: to get back to it, "i am suspicious of this mp fellow" is not an ideology ; nor in itself much of a problem.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's trauma, dude. he did what he earnestly believed was right at the time ; turns out to have been entirely and unmitigatedly wrong. this is catastrophic, and especially so in poorly socialized, introverted, intelligent males. now gotta reevaluate everything, the evaluations often don't come out meaningful, the correct alternatives are frequently perceived as alf-impossible, it's a mess.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: don't disagree with your characterization. but i don't think the "entirely and unmitigatedly wrong" is objectively / necessarily the case. mining konspiracy, i don't know, mircea. but at this point i'm too out of the loop for the "i" to be mean anything here.
mircea_popescu: ftr : my "fuck you, you may not be poor and be here" is not (as i'm certain oft perceived, because why the fuck not, it's easier) simply mp-superby. it is a strict and absolute necessity for one's own mental health.
mircea_popescu: this is BECAUSE people who are poor often lack the specific sort of sophistication that will keep them from falling in that exact hole.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: this is prolly again one of those "mind" things
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as a model, i propose to you that there's no substantial difference between this and say your bizarro position re llvm yest.
mircea_popescu: i have slaves who also don't ; so has the welfare state. this doesn't makethem "richer than x". they are the 0 of poor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but your expression of that position came from five minutes of being a teenage boy alone.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [13:28:09] <asciilifeform> Framedragger: in case you didn't know - kako sits on a tall pile of earlyadoptronium (and also bbetronium)
mircea_popescu: it's not "x was wrong, bad alfie!" it's "well review how x worked and it'll offer a model for how y works"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the miner conspiracy is in no way related to any of this ; however. if you recall, that disagreement as such resulted in entirely no friction.
mircea_popescu: if someone shouts "down with the government" and then tries to grab a policeman's gun, he will be prosecuted ; and he will obviously claim "it's political". nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: Framedragger sure. businesses will on occasion run into unexpected costs. this is a fact of [business] life.
mircea_popescu: and this is, as you notice, entirely divorced from that.
Framedragger: wasn't the whole point of it that kako disagreed of you attempting to charge bbet money for spending money twice (ironically, zero fee tx will be more difficult with no block size increase - which i'm against, too). that this was not in the gpg contract. so he did not sign bbet statement. and then bbet proceeded to be liquidated. you also disabled his mpex account for an unsigned comment on qntra or wherever which did not breach any clau
Framedragger: se of the gpg contract, but that's separate, too, i guess
mircea_popescu: that it's a smoothly working machinery, where escalation was tried and failed and then tried and failed and then and failed AND THEN TRIED!!! and failed does not excuse one from pretending "the last step" is "because the first step".
mircea_popescu: there bowls of "fuck me, i'm stupid" to be eaten at every juncture. perhaps of increasing size, it is true, but there nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: the anal child's "you didn't buy me my toy so it's your fault i'm a junkie" only works in the mind of the anal child.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger not only separate, but entirely nobody's concern. i can ban anyone for any reason or for no reason and i offer no explanations. this is how, you know, your bank works, also.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: absolutely. and at the same time you can understand why a bunch of people do not intend to hold any money with you ("these people have money?!" - mp laughs), because even if the "ban" is legit, it doesn't exactly inspire things.
trinque: are we back to opining on a man's private business decisions like it's reddit or what
Framedragger: that's a ridiculous slippery slope; street thieves also run private business enterprises in that respect, i suppose
trinque: Framedragger: your mouth runs a bit, you know.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah...fuck. lol. RCE possible. good times
pete_dushenski: in other news, my best tenants of all time are leaving at the end of the month. a sadness is me. i give chances of equally quiet, punctual, respectful couple 2:1 against
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 03:46 jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger eh, right. they'll go to coinbase instead. like before, there's a reason for that "these people have money?!" - mp laughs ; and the reason is that people who have money either do better research than this or else soon enough don't have money.
mircea_popescu: which has been, of course, a point throughout these many many years.
mircea_popescu: ah nm, it's just an enumerator etc for "internet of things" nonsense.
pete_dushenski: "Firstly, you see ? Firstly, how you convince the girls you're a Casanova riding two stallions. Then, how you lose your virginity. In that order.
trinque: getting lispy over there mp?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: (fair enough, i understand your viewpoint here)
mircea_popescu: they're a buggy implementation of half of common lisp!
Framedragger: in other news, znc took more time to reconnect upon connection failure than i want it to take. gonna improve things.
trinque: Framedragger: I'll be writing up the whole deployment and hosting side of things sometime today.
trinque: and an example command service
trinque: choosing the stack I did was born of experience
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 13:57 pete_dushenski: that alice_ was a character. much log skipping.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 06:09 a111: Logged on 2015-12-03 16:55 adlai: industrious must be got rid of, for he is too dangerous."
mod6: <+asciilifeform> we burned it out of trb with hot irons, first thing, for a reason. << werd. thx.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 09:34 Framedragger: phf: thanks for adding scriba btcbase log's list of bots btw
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [13:28:09] <asciilifeform> Framedragger: in case you didn't know - kako sits on a tall pile of earlyadoptronium (and also bbetronium)
phf: mircea_popescu: well, i want the arrows to still work, so i explicitly ignore his for quoting
shinohai still prefers readability of phf's logs, no offense to Framedragger
mircea_popescu: well ok but you can't have each bot read each line in chat what is this.
phf: but there's a nifty way to bring down both bots, which i think i should fix asap
mircea_popescu: if people reference your thing, let your bot read it ; if people reference his let his bot read it.
mircea_popescu: you can count references any way you please, that's an unrelated matter
phf: mircea_popescu: that's not the problem above though
phf: a111 quoted the two btcbase urls. one of the urls contained mkj url, so scriba quoted that
phf: unless you post a mutually recursive url (one that contains both links at the same time and references another one that contains both)
mircea_popescu: the problem is that as discussion progresses, there will be genuine references that are very long./
mircea_popescu: i think best would be if phf Framedragger and everyone ever running a log bot limits the number of lines the bot will read without interruption from human to three.
mircea_popescu: for the needs of this, however, we'd have to keep a list of bots, which is mildly obnoxious.
shinohai: All jhvh1 wants is to be sure you have a working copy of trb when X-Day comes
phf: actually looking at code i'm already using my bot list to ignore bot messages when annotating, which is not the best behavior
phf: ftr ("assbot" "gribble" "lobbesbot" "deedbot" "a111" "a111``" "scriba" "jhvh1")
phf: the list is also used to grey out messages from bots on btcbase, so it should contain all the historic bots too
mircea_popescu: but yes, we cameto a crossroad, where ai denizens are actually a significant enough portion of the republic's cohorts.
mircea_popescu: "all ais are subject to registration. any ai found without proper registration will be destroyed."
shinohai chisels this into republic law stones
Framedragger: ah! lol. in relation to mutual recursion, scriba won't repeat same line forever, fwiw; it will switch to "..."; but mutual destruction hasn't been empirically tested, so heh.
Framedragger: i'm not sure regarding explicit list of bots for each bot for good citizenry / collaboration purposes, but as phf said his bot already does that, kinda.
Framedragger: (if same irc nick invokes same line multiple lines that line won't be repeated foreva; so there's that)
Framedragger: believe it or not bot writers (scriba just piggybacks on a general bot) think about these things, sometimes :p
Framedragger: of course a mutual recursive *chain* could maybe be constructed....
Framedragger: regarding readability, yah /me prefers phf's html too, i think :D i'll see about it after more important things are taken care of; but it's prolly good to have different designs, too.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [1/3] [15:21:52] <mircea_popescu> oh it recursed ?
scriba: [2/3] [15:22:03] <phf> a111 quoted the two btcbase urls. one of the urls contained mkj url, so scriba quoted that
scriba: [3/3] [15:22:14] <mircea_popescu> this is actually not bad.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-07: [1/3] [15:21:52] <mircea_popescu> oh it recursed ?
scriba: [2/3] [15:22:03] <phf> a111 quoted the two btcbase urls. one of the urls contained mkj url, so scriba quoted that
scriba: [3/3] [15:22:14] <mircea_popescu> this is actually not bad.
mircea_popescu: though honestly, i'm not sure why it's useful, other than you liking it. people routinely read around linked items.
Framedragger: i guess it has a socialist bent to it - i thought - noobs won't read actual logs so might as well quote what's actually needed; and, it is useful for when it's just a couple of lines. but it does add to the thickness of logz.
phf: Framedragger: also i did notice that utc+3 to utc shift midday ;)
Framedragger: phf: ...yeah. i wanted to switch to utc so changed environment settings for when it next restarted and then it restarted sooner than expected. SUCH ENGINEERING :/
Framedragger: i'll have to re-do the whole dates/times thing anyway once i move to postgres, which i want to do anyway
Framedragger: btw this is such $s il n'y a pas de hors-texte
Framedragger: there should be a bot which gives help about bots
jhvh1: Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu: jhvh1 i mean shinohai : is there a web for your bash ?
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Error: "i" is not a valid command.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-06 16:31 mircea_popescu: lol! review the history. the bar in 2016 is "make a bot" ; the bar in 2014 was "get a gpg key".
shinohai: There will be soon on bit-box, got to add one more thing to make it update properly.
trinque: Framedragger: ftr I don't subscribe to the "bot checks to make sure it doesn't resend lines" party
trinque: pretty soon you've got a onanismd
Framedragger: trinque: you mean, it's okay for bot to keep repeating same line requested by same person in quick succession? hm maybe
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 09:25 Framedragger: "butt sex, too"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 09:25 Framedragger: "butt sex, too"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 09:25 Framedragger: "butt sex, too"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 09:25 Framedragger: "butt sex, too"
trinque: what, you need me to negrate you to make the point? calm down
Framedragger: trinque: ok maybe. but the restriction is an easy way of trapping some non-halting scenarions
Framedragger off for now, sorry for pollution; good day for the logs
trinque echoed asciilifeform's nothing for showing up sentiment just above
phf: can also implement some kind of nerfing with iptables, using -m limit --limit n/s. there's also a stateful --seconds m --hitcount n
phf: !~bible matthew 22:21
jhvh1: phf: [KJV] Matthew 22:21 :: They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: [KJV] Matthew 10:34 :: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Error: "fortune" is not a valid command.
phf: also need shakespeare and imdb quotes database
jhvh1: phf: Error: "joke" is not a valid command.
phf: that was an efnet joke
shinohai: asciilifeform !~bible matthew 10:34 <<< this is why I said alf is a vengeful god, no better than Jehovah
phf: sort of how back in eggdrop days people would load tons of 3rd party plugins into their bot making it both unstable and exploitable. there was always some buffer overflow in !fart or somesuch
shinohai: eggdrop had a *telnet* server ffs
phf: err, my memory doesn't go further out, but i suspect eggdrop was first case of wordpress plugin ecosystem with similar implications
trinque: nah, windows was released earlier
trinque: they apparently jammed JS into eggdrop in 2002. ahead of its time.
trinque: anarchists protesting lenient govt sentencing, lul
hanbot: (from mircea_popescu's latest) "A: A tulpa can think independantly from its creator, can have different opinions, views, tastes, etc. from its creator, provide companionship, talk directly to anyone inside the same body (including its creator and other tulpas), control and manipulate the physical body like you, recall the memories that you have if you give them the permission and more, but basically a tulpa is a conscious mind like you and can do the
hanbot: same things like you can." desperately need moar accounts stupidity
trinque: being a killer is not absent in women, though they'll deny it with fuzzy bunnies all day long
trinque: also in mp's article there; teh culture is broken
shinohai: I never realized such level of retardation existed.
hanbot: heh, seems mircea_popescu and diana_coman co-own the term "pluriously", as per google
mircea_popescu very much welcomes criticism / improvement / further research of teh suto.
mircea_popescu: oh, i thought you meant ponygirls. iirc "brony" was for a while years ago a pedo rally cry.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 03:27 trinque: afaik you identify as a pony or some shit
mircea_popescu: no, you don't "identify as a pony". you pretend to be interested in a preteen cartoon show because a) trying to talk with preteens online and b) if you do it enough maybe it normalizes.
trinque: the cover theory makes a great deal of sense.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because totally skinning a product is innovation now.
mircea_popescu: remarkably enough, the don't mention the ~only bitcoin game worth the mention other than eulora, that being a tale in the desert.
thestringpuller: well tale of the desert isn't bitcoin based. that's a knights tale by the same guy
thestringpuller: but who am i to judge "boring" the countless hours watching tv to kill time while waitng to get in an FFXI party to play for like maybe 30 minutes of combat
mircea_popescu finds magic the gathering and clones boring, for that matter.
thestringpuller: anyhow. the srs MTG crowd actually think SoG is a joke, it may pull some player, but there's no point.
shinohai: Wasn't "Spells of Genesis" another Voorhees enterprise?
thestringpuller: i think that's why it pivoted to arcade game with "card battle system"
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what i meant above. really, they skinned someone else's thing ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: skinned someone else's thing << Just cause facebook lined up a billion idiots. And WoW poached MTG pkayers for "Hearthstone", kinda just biomass going from time waster to time waster
mircea_popescu: it is strictly possible that ~all the facebook/reddit/etc "profiles" belong to a single person.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i actually checked out hearthstone. it's fucking boring i dunno how they 15yo manages
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: imagine you're a millennial raised on an ipad and your attention span lasts maybe 1 page of a normal novel.
thestringpuller: this imo is why the state of gaming is where it is. Games have become "babysitters", rather than quality toys.
ben_vulpes: subject of ipad, apple is picking a fight with the 3.5mm audio jack
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: They trynna to patent it cause "Square" et. al?
mircea_popescu: for anyone who spent childhood around kids comparing the "waterproofness" of their watches, by meter depth - esp kids who never went into water
mircea_popescu: that the same will occur to "smart" phones was expected.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: from what it sounds like they can't make money on the 3.5mm jack, so they gonna make a USB lightning adapter?!?!?
thestringpuller: "If you have a favourite pair of older earphones or headphones, you can plug them into the Lightning or USB-C jack with a little adapter. Some will have splitters so that you can charge your phone and plug in headphones simultaneously." << what the actual fuck
ben_vulpes: "why ditch analog stereo headphone jacks? well, we're still smarting from losing the firewire/usb format war, so we're going to pick a fight with a defacto industry standard."
mircea_popescu: "older" being the keyword. what happened to you know, "better".
trinque: they're gonna beam microwaves through your skull moar now
thestringpuller: I don't understand it, cause bluetooth traditionally sucks for audio fidelity
thestringpuller: this is why as an audiophile, I have a vinyl player at work.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller here's a little understood bit of corporate insanity : if a dying company dies normally, it is assumed the ceo & co were idiots ; if it dies as a result of doing something large and monunemtally stupid, it is assumed the ceo & team were brave souls who caught a bad break.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you ever try watching a movie on early bluetooth headphones?
mircea_popescu: this stimulates a lot of outright insane behaviour in large companies.
mircea_popescu: stupidity on an epic scale not only didn't end carly fiorina's career among her own kind - but actually made her hillary's best friend
thestringpuller: from all my ventures into being an audiophile at some point the analog tech produces sounds your ears can't even hear
thestringpuller: Like the rip my friend did of one of my 70's Stevie Wonder albums was like ~2 gb
jurov: vinyl has its own artifacts, no?
mircea_popescu: this seems altogether a dubious proposition seeing how for all the wankery now surrounding them, vinyl records are industrial mass products ; from a time when 8kbps was a lot.
jurov: the studio mastering has to shoehorn the record into vinyl's deficiencies (so that the tracks don't touch etc)
mircea_popescu: yes they weren't originally digitized. if you think 1960s microphones and buzzy electronics make for a better quality...
trinque: aha, they rip them in say 24bit/96kHz so they can hear the crackles and pops in ultra high def
thestringpuller: personal prefernce. i tend to like vocals on non condenser mic's cause they sound more "warm"
mircea_popescu recently found out why ~all the casters in 1920/1930s sound the fucking same.
mircea_popescu: i thought they're just doing that weird voice deliberately
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well some of us have to do that as adults.
mircea_popescu: seems pertinent, if compressed into just a coupla years.
mircea_popescu: in other news, good god how can these idiots be so fucking tedious.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck bother looking for a work. redditards, lesswrongians, you name it.
mircea_popescu: apparently the yudkowsky fellow pod' his atrocious fanfic.
trinque: it barfed a "no address associated with name" trying to talk to wotpaste
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes, but will now change that.
trinque: ben_vulpes: pls to sign current wotpaste IP
trinque: also this just got an error message:
thestringpuller: omg 160 bucks for a pair of headphones that will accumulate in earwax
mircea_popescu: yeah well... if only the original authors of the us had a way to prevent the current fucktards from using it in a way they hadn't anticipated.
ben_vulpes: should probably have a block number in it, eh?
ben_vulpes: anyways, trinque will that suffice for now?
mircea_popescu: it's mildly shocking to see the whole pile of supposed lisp experts who are actually not known to have written, let alone run, any lisp.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's rather evident that there's a mutually-reinforcing ring of idiots. check out yegge's wikipedia article, for instance. curated with love.
deedbot: Lightsword voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: "i lost the passphrase for the gpg key i created yesterday and i can't decrypt the msg mircea_popescu sent me...is it ok if a create another key and register with this?"
mircea_popescu: this isn't no kids left behind club ; but on the contrary.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, "The GNU Hurd is under active development. Because of that, there is no stable version." << cca may 2016
mircea_popescu: "It's time [to] explain the meaning of "Hurd". "Hurd" stands for "Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons". And, then, "Hird" stands for "Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth". We have here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms." << arguably its most notable accomplishment to date.
mircea_popescu: this is a communist government ; the only cure is grave.
mircea_popescu: no, actually, actually architect wanted to just adapt a bsd
mircea_popescu: but stallman wanted to wait n years for some ivy league product.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the original linked lisp verbiage was funny to me mostly because it's all written from the perspective of "object oriented is god". which was very much groupthink cca 2006.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "At the risk of predicting future fashion trends, which is rarely a good idea, I'll venture that objects are going to continue to be trendy for at least a few more decades. So I think Lisp needs some form of "seamless" OOP." and all that.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 428752 | Current Difficulty: 2.2075590833037228E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 429407 | Next Difficulty In: 655 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 10 hours, 56 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
ben_vulpes: lisp has had seamless oop since what the seventies?
☟︎ deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: "So XEmacs has never been a particularly good tool for serious Emacs users because even though it's written in C, it crashes like a mature C++ application." mwahahaha
☟︎ BingoBoingo: re: tulpas, when I first saw the word in use I assumed based on phonetics that hamplanets were ascirbing personalities to their FUPAS
alice_: so does mircea_popescu fool around with tulpas or
BingoBoingo recently saw a transmay get winded moving from their scootypuff to a riding lawnmower to see if the small tractors would "fit"
BingoBoingo: panniculus spread their legs in a seated position too far to reach the pedals
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I finally acquired a pair of needlenose pliers that don't seem to suck
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Cutting screws with them at the moment
alice_: asciilifeform: tell me more about why you're asking. this channel is assholes, which is a communication style i'm not used to, so i'd like more details :)
alice_: i don't mind, just saying ;)
alice_: this _is_ related to why you are assholes
jhvh1: 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
alice_: does mircea_popescu fool around with tulpas
deedbot: alice_ voiced for 30 minutes.
jurov: she wanted to know more about assholes
shinohai: Best trilema article I have read all week too
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 23:10 mircea_popescu: "So XEmacs has never been a particularly good tool for serious Emacs users because even though it's written in C, it crashes like a mature C++ application." mwahahaha
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 22:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, the original linked lisp verbiage was funny to me mostly because it's all written from the perspective of "object oriented is god". which was very much groupthink cca 2006.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 22:45 ben_vulpes: lisp has had seamless oop since what the seventies?
alice_: asciilifeform: you make up bs insults because {you find it entertaining} and {boot camp narrative} ?
alice_: (not judging, i don't mind)
alice_: nice, sounds very respectable
alice_: i'm glad you're happy with your life :)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> this happens, just like at your university, in the manner the elders decide. and not the manner the novice prefers. << Unless your university is new Social Justice Mizzou that wants to tear down the original Thomas Jefferson grave marker,
deedbot: nacci voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: !~translate ru to en в чужой монастырь со своим уставом не ходят
jhvh1: shinohai: in a strange monastery with its regulations do not go
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: somewhere a pull-starter clacks
alice_: i'm p sure there aren't interesting folk around tho
BingoBoingo: Prolly all the ethanol varnished his carbuerator
alice_: i am still entertained by your antics