assbot: Logged on 07-09-2014 20:39:31; decimation: no, but my point is that destroying the structure of power typically empowers some megalomaniac to step in and fix things
decimation: I was thinking about this for awhile today, and about what would have happened if hitler had stopped with poland and consolidated power
decimation: it's pretty likely we would have germany+us+ussr today, or at least they would have been a 'triumvirate' during the cold war
decimation: mod6: did you try removing that line from the makefile.unix that reference the empty dir?
mod6: there's a bunch of lines that reference it actually, and no, i was hoping to get rid of these barnacles without having to change other files.
decimation: I suspect you are gonna need a shell script, like ascii suggested.
mircea_popescu: decimation dubiuous one could have "consolidated". that's what the soviet union tried. it collapsed. that's what the eu tried. it's collapsing.
mod6: yeah. well, i think i'll just prune by hand if I do at all. like i was saying earlier, im a bit paranoid now that some script might later accidentially remove the dirs if they're rendered empty.
mircea_popescu: once the war machine stops, all the fringe cocksuckers congeal.
mircea_popescu: the only way poland was worth holding for germany is if they were going into the ukraine. and ukraine in turn, going to moscow. etc.
mod6: gonna have to test prune by hand, and then test and ensure that these empty dirs will persist indifiniately.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, on their own merits, nobody wants to hold the lands of orcs.
decimation: mircea_popescu: alright, perhaps the sudetenland (sorry jurov)
mod6: don't challenge me to a spelling contest, i'll lose.
mircea_popescu: so a slightly larger germany. still no different from the previous situation.
mircea_popescu: as hitler correctly figured out (and plainly said so) , the only future of germany as a nation lay in the destruiction of britain as an empire.
decimation: yeah, but the main point is that hitler was a populist dictator who actually delievered on his promises to a great degree
mircea_popescu: this turned out to be more expensive than originally thought, but it was done neverthjeless.
mircea_popescu: mno. the notion that hitler was populist is akin to the notion that obama is democratic.
mircea_popescu: sure, the turdmeisters in charge of the herd sell it thus.
mircea_popescu: they put butter in blue or red or yellow packaging according to what the focus group says. you think butter is "red" ? butter is butter.
mircea_popescu: nobody yet stopped to consider "the real color of butter" for packaging purposes afaik,
decimation: all that might be true, but the nazi platform appeared to mostly be "give to the people all the things" (minus jews, foreigners, etc)
mircea_popescu: you can quote chapter and verse for this notion or are merely relying on what us agitprop and clueless derps like that mcdowell woman in that eddie murphy movie told you ?
mircea_popescu: (great film btw, murphy is the heir to the throne of zamunda, pursues some ugly nigglet in queens. who doesn't like him because he's rich, and to their assheads at the time in the 80s this is a flaw)_
decimation: "7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich."
decimation: "9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties."
decimation: 13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
decimation: 14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
decimation: what about hitler is 'against populism'?
mircea_popescu: i don't recall any sort of voting being held on when to attack, soviet style.
mircea_popescu: not that the guy is pointedly "against populism", admitting for the sake of argument that tyhe concept even holds meaning outside of its proper reference (it is after all a notion of democracy). but then again the bar for "not being x" is not "being patently against x"
mircea_popescu: ("you don't love me anymore" "sure i do" "prove it" "fuck you.")
mircea_popescu: s/fuck you/you made the statement, you prove it/ for any unschooled gals in the audience.
decimation: it's a fair point, he probably didn't believe it in his heart of hearts
decimation: at any rate, my original point is that it would have been interesting to see german v. the world in an economic war rather than military
decimation: after all, britian capitulated rather quickly to us demands for it to 'decolonize'
mircea_popescu: specifically re 13 : if isis submits a bid to buy out raytheon, this proposal will not go to the shareholders. it will go to a so called "anti trust regulator" or w/e, which will reject it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, see orwell : london in 1930 was entering its second decade of pretending ww1 never happenbed anmd "britannia forever"
mircea_popescu: anyway, zee germans have gained a very petty habit of being miserable to the people they owe gratitude to. no hitler statues, put that kohl fellow in jail...
mircea_popescu: then they sprout cheeky teenagers with "nordic system" delusions. won't fill the void.
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:09:25; decimation: also, I don't know what the 'web 2.0' thing he posted a picture of is? is that some kind of dns control panel?
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:16:30; decimation: the amusing thing to me is that the 'ddos cannon' is using dns
decimation: yeah, and your 'gambit' confirmed that they do strictly this
mircea_popescu: nuked the parody site rightr off the net, but wh stands.
mircea_popescu: i think they spent a coupla million real dollars on that gateway
decimation: which one? the akamai host you linked?
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:25:34; jurov: and routers verifying sigs for 1e6 packets/sec , rly?
decimation: 92.18.45.23.in-addr.arpa. 300INPTRa23-45-18-92.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.
mircea_popescu: well that makes sense then. i was impressed originally.
decimation: which is why it didn't go down, they did spend $x mil, possibly $bil
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is (as you prolly expect it from shit i do) very much experimental. trying to actually make a site where users can safely use their ips.
decimation: they carefully craft routing tables with all their peers so that they can have multiple hosts with the same ip
mircea_popescu: "But fresh data show that top schools are turning out black and Hispanic graduates with tech degrees at rates significantly higher than they are being hired by leading tech firms.
mircea_popescu: Last year, black students took home 4.1 percent of the bachelor’s degrees in computer science"
mircea_popescu: they took 4% last year and are in the workforce at 2% ?
mircea_popescu: whole fucking country is by now the United Republic of Blackmail.
decimation: except, nobody seems to blackmail microsoft for pumping out shit
mircea_popescu: anwyay, the notion that google hires derps with degrees is news to me. i thought nobody got to finish his degree because hired in 3rd year.
☟︎ decimation: maybe in their young and dumb days, but now they are legendary for their pickiness
decimation: all of the testing amounts to 'unofficial iq tests', as far as I can tell
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:26:46; asciilifeform: SIGNATURE IN EVERY MOTHERFUCKING PACKET
mircea_popescu: "can't afford to not hire this guy now and have him hired by someone later".
mircea_popescu: sort-of like nobody hires 21 yo athletes as entry level.
decimation: heh now the 'movie industry' is going to 4k (3840 x 2160) 3D - in hopes they can hold off piracy, would be my guess
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:28:54; jurov: of course, but cisco just moves bits and does not do crypto
mircea_popescu: more like in hopes that social relevancy is tied to "technological advancement".
decimation: indeed. my experience is not enhanced by watching the individual whiskars on gandolf's beard
mircea_popescu: moving from asciiart tits to 500kb gifs was a great reason to ditch the diskette and put in a cdrom
mircea_popescu: moving from 2mb gifs to 600mb .avis was a great reason to ditch the cdrom get a dvd
decimation: in fact, there's a point where it hits an 'uncanny valley' and you realize it's all a set with fake shit everywhere
trinque: asciilifeform: got elephant working with postgresql, wasn't too bad
trinque: barfed on berkdb so I skipped it
decimation: which is why 24 fps in a dark room worked for 100 years
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:35:33; jurov: dear decimation these ddoses have tens or hundreds gigabits... and not with 1500 byt packets
decimation: very few providers in the world could even measure 100 gbs ddos
mircea_popescu: 1Mpps has been seen, so... yeah routing over wot will not be a trivial problem. but it does have a trivial solution :
mircea_popescu: this will make "most of the web" inaccessible to "most people", but only if we measure "most" linearily.
decimation: note that this kinda implies you are building your own network, not using some else's ip routing
mircea_popescu: otherwise, all the web that matters will be visible to all the people who matter.
mircea_popescu: decimation just auto-drop any packets coming from unknown host.
mircea_popescu: you know those hops in the traceroute ? well... the assumption is that they'll just take a packet.
mircea_popescu: exactly how it works here : we have a public slut (ie, gribble) who will convey a message to anyone, and who can trivially be silenced. otherwise, suppose unknown asks you to convey message to me. well ? why would you.
mircea_popescu: it could trivially work on existing infrastructure really. the ability to ddos only exists on some ports and in some circumstances as it is, because that's what the derps use.
decimation: that was kinda my point about the 'charging per route'
mircea_popescu: server that rejects requests on 80 etc is way harder all of a sudden
mircea_popescu: you don't even need to charge per se. just, PEER. as in, actually.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3439 @ 0.00055141 = 1.8963 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: yeah but that still implies physical connection
decimation: someone is gonna have to be in the middle, who may or may not route packets at their pleasure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39323 @ 0.00058395 = 22.9627 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yes but what if two wot members are peered through several untrusted hosts?
decimation: the 'untrusted' routers implictly veto packet routing
mircea_popescu: you drop all traffic except port 1337 and check sigs for that so as to only forward stuff to your own peers that they accept.
mircea_popescu: i dun see how they do anything. either they maintain compliance with tcp/ip spec as is, in which case they do nothing
mircea_popescu: or they break it, in which case they kill themselves but we still don't care (for the same reason original internet was robuts - rerouting)
decimation: or, they choose to null route only your stuff
mircea_popescu: what's next, power rangers will hurt the bitrcoin foundation by not releasing further crap ?
trinque: point would be to define your own network layer, then have multiple transports over which it may be routed
mircea_popescu: this notion that infrastructure has power is ludicrous.
trinque: as said the existing internet does very much the same thing
ben_vulpes: <decimation> boost compiles fine with macports << i'm a homebrew dood. perhaps this is wrong?
decimation: isn't that exactly what 'ddos protection' and 'spam protect' do?
decimation: ben_vulpes: homebrew seemed lame, but I haven't used it much
ben_vulpes: decimation: do you use macports regularly?
decimation: mircea_popescu: okay, suppose your favorite isp null routes your packets (kills your contract)
mircea_popescu: but the very basic "all plaintext email is spam, throw it out" rule would do that.
decimation: ben_vulpes: yeah I've used it for years now
decimation: if you are in a datacenter you might get this level of service
mircea_popescu: and if they refuse to sign a contract, im going to sue them for refusing to sign a contract, which thewy actually have to do being a de facto monopoluy
decimation: sure, in most non-orc places alternatives exist
trinque: I really don't think not having a b-a satellite network should preclude getting started on gossipd
trinque: just build it such that it'll work on that too
decimation: ben_vulpes: I tried to compile the 1.55.0 boost on macports and it didn't work
trinque: well hell, if you're buying :D
decimation: it does compile 1.58 with clang though
decimation: for some reason the final link didn't work with bitcoind, gonna do some more research
ben_vulpes: i suppose that i'm pretty dumb for just downloading the source and expecting that i'll be able to compile it, huh?
decimation: mircea_popescu: sats are getting cheaper, but doing a 'multipoint sat constellation' is still going to be $$$$$
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:43:32; phf: it's more fidonet with crypto handshakes
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
decimation: ^ and a small leo 'store-and-forward' would be cheap
mircea_popescu: decimation mp's law! when i was born, the first satellite had just cost a fortune. by the time i had my first threesome, they were doing consumer phone via satellite. as i made my self billion, fucing romania launched a satellite on a shoestring budget.
decimation: well, there's a whole movement of 'get space to the people'
ben_vulpes: i thought up an
http-auth thing recently:
http request headers containing a signed hash of one of the last 2 blocks
ben_vulpes: (signed by a customer or allowed user or someone the service provider likes)
ben_vulpes: mwell point is to gate access to an api without relying on tls
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:46:27; asciilifeform: again, it wasn't in mircea_popescu's spec
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:30:21; mircea_popescu: anwyay, the notion that google hires derps with degrees is news to me. i thought nobody got to finish his degree because hired in 3rd year.
trinque: I thought they only killed ones they purchased
ben_vulpes: oh get real asciilifeform google facebook and amazon were all chasing my dumb ass at one point and i never had good grades and definitely never finished kawledge
☟︎ mircea_popescu: they're still living off fucking google ads. which work about as good as an ant blowjob. since then, endless string of failures, briefcase, glass, g+ you name it
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: let us not forget "Inbox" or w/e
trinque: ben_vulpes: isn't that something they purchased?
mircea_popescu: actually briefcase was yahoo i guess, the "media company"
decimation: asciilifeform: tonight for dinner I had 'riga' sprat and rye bread (berliner broet)
ben_vulpes: no, apple purchased the only decent mail application for ios to preserve their mailnopoly
trinque: could've been descended from that.
ben_vulpes: because while they can mandate webkit as browser they cannot
decimation: ios mail won't 'push' from gmail servers
trinque: there were a few, apple might've too
ben_vulpes: my read at the time was "google is raping apple's mail experience"
decimation: it's a 'baptists and bootleggers' situation
mircea_popescu: i don't use gmail and don't have a spam problem. but hey.
ben_vulpes: the touchscreen however is an unredeemable text input device.
ben_vulpes: because text is not simply an 'input' problem.
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:49:30; mircea_popescu: before i die i'm going to be farting satellites.
ben_vulpes: but more precisely a 'transformation' thing.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i will build the garbage scows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda why space war is inevitable. i see no problem shooting everything else out of orbit to fart my own
ben_vulpes: there are a million ways to pull debris out of orbit.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: oh srsly, oprah can not be broacast anymore now ? bwahahaha mkayt.
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:52:11; ben_vulpes: oh get real asciilifeform google facebook and amazon were all chasing my dumb ass at one point and i never had good grades and definitely never finished kawledge
decimation: to me the solution to spam is "pay me to read your email in bitcoin"
trinque: just don't accept every soiled napkin as mail
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:56:25; ben_vulpes: there are a million ways to pull debris out of orbit.
decimation: the stuff below a few hundred km is okay, because it is 'swept' by atmosphere
ben_vulpes: ad hoc bug ridden implementation of half of smtp
decimation: but you need some method of keeping orbit to maintain
trinque: so. seriously. what's the story with artifexd ?
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 42 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
mircea_popescu: trinque guy seemed to be seriously working on it, was gonna say something in a coupla weeks a quarter ago.
trinque: maybe he is, would just like to hear
mircea_popescu: but yes, gossipd is the huge sort of project that looks like it'd benefit from a few failure reports from failed attempts before we seriously have a shot.
trinque: ben_vulpes: no kidding right?
mircea_popescu: not just because of stuff like the above asciilifeform comment, but also because well... huge.
ben_vulpes: trinque: i think he actually has employees
mircea_popescu: prolly has 588 of them, all the same height, wearing the same mask
decimation: asciilifeform: when buying from the german baker, I commented how my coworkers mock my sprat eating habits. her reply "always with the chicken this, chicken that"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that vacuum-packed babe was p lulzy
decimation: 'riga' is definitely smokey, I like it, but 'king oskar' is good too (unsmoked)
ben_vulpes: i think everyone can smell your perma-lsd-trip.
decimation: it is weird how most usians are biased against fish in a tin
decimation: they sell them as 'brisling sardines' but they are sprat - I am certain of this
mircea_popescu: the sprat IS a sardine. that's what they're called in english.
decimation: it turns out there's many kinds of 'sardine'
decimation: but they are sold as sardines in the us because they haven't heard of 'sprat'
decimation: it's actually almost impossible to tell exactly what kind of fish you are eating in the us
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, did we ever discuss what zacusca ended up in romanian ?
ben_vulpes: one of the nicer things about hawaii is the plentify ahi
decimation: yeah hawaii has the best sushi I've eaten
decimation: especially in honolulu where they cater to rich japanese
mircea_popescu: yes. in romanian is this very specific, traditionally canned vegetable paste
PeterL: So I've been thinking about the mempool: There should be a size limit set in the config for mempool, along with the minFee. Each txn gets scored based on age of coins, amount in txn, size of txn, and fee, etc, once the size limit is reached if a txn does not meet the lowest ranking it is ignored, if it does then the lowest ranked txn is ejected to make space, and every once in a while the oldest and highest ranking txns in the mempool are rebroa
PeterL: to make sure they get included eventually in a block
mircea_popescu: icre, of course, are hanbot's least favourite romanian food.
ben_vulpes: PeterL: you missed the thread where alf pointed out that 'mempool' is not a part of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you know your thinking is a nearly exact restatement of what i said last week ?
PeterL: oh, must have missed it
PeterL: but what is bitcoin without transactions?
ben_vulpes: sync and serve mechanisms are vastly more important.
trinque: or more generally stated... "markets work"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00056171 = 29.9953 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: dude stop confusing can and will be. alf can pick up prostitutes in buenos aires, too.
PeterL: yeah, but it makes sense to have -some- relay built into reference version
PeterL: with my scheme, just set the max-size to 0 and it turns the mempool off
mircea_popescu: did i ever recount the joke about practice and theory ?
mircea_popescu: after reading b-a log for the first time, little gavin schmuckssen went to his father
mircea_popescu: "daddy, daddy, i heard these mean kids use two unknown words. theory and practice. do you know what is the difference ?"
mircea_popescu: old man schmuckssen calls over his wife. "honey, there's an arab prince at the door, wants to fuck you silly for a million bucks. what should i say to him ?"
mircea_popescu: "well... uhh... i'd never... you know we're behind on the mortgage and that nsa check is late..."
mircea_popescu: "listen dear, the arab prince has a friend. would you..."
ben_vulpes: <trinque> asciilifeform: got elephant working with postgresql, wasn't too bad << share!
trinque: ben_vulpes: took some very minimal notes, may share when I feel like I know what I'm doing
trinque: this is an experiment to see whether I can transplant my standard patterns of db use to lisp
trinque: I'll admit I got a bit uncomfortable seeing a keyvalue table
trinque: author must've been shy on altering schema
trinque: runs directly contarary to your idea of knowing the cost of an operation
trinque: that "table" could be 100 views deep
BingoBoingo: <decimation> it's actually almost impossible to tell exactly what kind of fish you are eating in the us << Catching own fish is possible
PeterL: The river running through my town has a "don't eat the fish" rule because of some toxic spill upstream from 20 years ago
trinque: asciilifeform: reasoning with sets and their relationships is why I use the db heavily in work
trinque: I have an inkling of being able to do the same thing in lisp, but you know, grew up in the congo, working on it
ben_vulpes: trinque: have you started reading the statice manual?
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 01:01:54; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: attended another costco today
BingoBoingo: PeterL: Recently had some "sour crude" leak from a pipe upstream of our reservoir
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: attended with family who are cult members
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re statice, what parts wouldn't make sense? the thing is explained in painstaking detail.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: only need one - for the woman
ben_vulpes: trinque: go, read. a marvel of technical writing.
ben_vulpes: such as i have not seen in my career to date.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i may yet end up with a set because of this reason.
trinque: asciilifeform: hm I already see your point, maybe, re: data structures
trinque: I get a tree, in a database!
trinque: you know, without parent_id and "with recursive"
trinque: I've done horrible things working with trees in SQL
trinque: so now I'm going to grow to like this, and then I'm going to be stuck later wondering why something I've done is slow
gabriel_laddel: trinque: does elephant allow you to redefine classes without restarting?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: no idea yet; began just now
trinque: not that sql's great, but every "db" in that whole wave of shit can be forgotten
ben_vulpes: client blew their budget on ie8 css compatibility in a half-assed single page js app
decimation: from my own meatwot, the 'benefit' to mongo is that it can scale, because it 'runs twitter' or some shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2466 @ 0.00058422 = 1.4407 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: some engineer somewhere in some corp decides to play with it for a week, people who wrote dumbthing get email of concern from said engineer, decide to advertise as "running bigcorp"
trinque: "JS and JSON, therefore ..." << is the process of "design" that shat all this
ben_vulpes: you assholes are winding me up deliberately.
decimation: asciilifeform: my experience is that much of this kind of thing is only learned by 'tried, fucked me'
trinque: asciilifeform: obligatory reference to fake stroustrup interview
trinque: decimation: yes, I did once choose couchdb when I was 22
decimation: actually I did go through the slides on that stroustrup talk
trinque: gabriel_laddel: did you punch him in the dick?
decimation: the most amusing bit to me was his little diatribe against garbage collectors
gabriel_laddel: me: "lisp makes meta-programming trivial" him: "if it did they'd rule the world already, and therefore I don't have to consider your argument"
ben_vulpes: this is why i don't talk to programmers i don't know about programming.
decimation: stroustrop appears to 'hate' garbage collection because (correctly) hardware fucks him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27683 @ 0.00058511 = 16.1976 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: this apparently means 'no garbage collection' not 'no shit hardware'
trinque: he doesn't hate the world enough to say it should change
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67670 @ 0.00058535 = 39.6106 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: Symbol "MREMAP" not found in the OSICAT-POSIX package.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00057912 = 38.5115 BTC [-] {2}
gabriel_laddel: OSICAT is a unix bindings library, download/build that program, it'll CFFI some stuff and kosher.
gabriel_laddel: ftr, when using manardb you'll have to force it to init on reboot by creating a junk mmap'ed class.
gabriel_laddel: I'm just leaving this in the logs on the off chance someone decides to play around with it.
ben_vulpes: i feel like herr popescu with apache and his caching layer
ben_vulpes: okay well trinque gabriel_laddel i give up on this lisp persistence thing
ben_vulpes: i'm writing raw sql in my cl going forward
trinque: there are a hundred large pieces of software already out in the wild begging to be ripped open by something new
trinque: old crufty industries that are not interesting to those trying to advance the art of computer science.
trinque: go kill a few of those and fund your computer
gabriel_laddel: haha, I believe no such thing, but I have to deliver "working" (for some value of that word) software to clients irrespective of how hardware behaves.
decimation: for example, you can make a syscall and all possible outcomes are foreseen
decimation: if you cannot predict the outcome of a request of the hardware, how can you possibly 'fix it' in software?
phf: my favorite way to do lisp persistence is to just keep everything in memory and do ext:save-lisp from a that does minor amount of saved image management. i learned the trick from avi bryant back when he was writing interesting code
phf: yes, but without the instance dying part
ben_vulpes: slad doesn't really address the power toggle thing
ben_vulpes: or lisp instance crashign either, though right?
ben_vulpes: really? i'm supposed to eat this? that lisp isntances don't crash?
decimation: " I actually think C++ is ideal only for programmers without any ethics.
decimation: you must lie, you are encouraged to declare your private stuff and keep
decimation: the cards very closely to your breast, but if you need access, you just
phf: i've crashed cmucl a few times, but only when i would reach into heap to access vectors directly. acl and lispworks never crash on me
decimation: go ahead and change other people's class definitions. "
decimation: gabriel_laddel: sure, because hardware/drivers fuck you
ben_vulpes: what about sharing data structures across many instances?
phf: i think the idea here is that some data loss is way cheaper then programmer time. also memory is way cheaper then programmer time. if you have a really critical data stream, just do a write only log, that you can either replay or even just recover manually
ben_vulpes: you're telling me that i should what...just write code?
trinque: maybe means write ahead log?
phf: asciilifeform: essentially
phf: in my experience it's cheaper to literally go a log file and reconstruct data manually the one time your system crash, then introduce uknowable redundancies that tend to increase complexity and ultimately result in the crash, because doesn't fit in head
trinque: in elephant I can only "where" on one slot?
trinque: I have to say so far the querying capacity of this thing looks to be on par with couchdb
phf: asciilifeform: that's my answer to. the log is a contingency plan for when the lisp instance fails, which it rarely does. in which case your goal is to reconstruct the state from the time of last save-lisp (say an hour), till the point of crash
phf: the loc on that is in 10s, rather then 1000s + external servers for when your first reaction is to "reach for database"
trinque: I have noticed many times that when someone tries to pry the relational model from my hands, I lose behavior and am then told "you didn't actually need that behavior"
ben_vulpes: i am going to spend 2 years just reading CL tooling documentation before putting anything into production at this rate.
ben_vulpes: Adlai: once told me that the 'log reading' period for CL was well in excess of that for #b-a
ben_vulpes: what about deploying code to servers? just slime-connect to the remote host over an ssh tunnel and then compile the new codebase in?
trinque: asciilifeform: so am I meant to read every damn object into memory just to filter on >1 slot?
trinque: there are loads of repeating patterns in end-user data access
trinque: I am not sorry I used relational as a "gun to fire today"
ben_vulpes: there's a difference between chewing and a tool that abstracts a thing that needs doing
trinque: I'll take a gun to fire tomorrow too
gabriel_laddel: 3. Have a bit of fun provided I've done enough of 2, which is rarely, but that's another issue.
gabriel_laddel: When I say 'work', I mean I want to be able to start typing on the screen, and if I feel like putting in a drawing, I draw on the screen. Or I bring something from my scanner on to the screen, or I send something from my screen to someone else. Or I get my Mac to play the tune I've just written on the screen on a synthesiser. Or well, the list obviously is endless. And if I need any particular tool to enable me to d
gabriel_laddel: o anything complicated I simply ask for it. And I mean simply. I should never have to put away the thing I'm working on unless I've actually finished it (fat chance say my publishers) or want to do something else entirely."
trinque: ben_vulpes: it's fine; eats a sql string or sexp version thereof, farts list
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51564 @ 0.00056128 = 28.9418 BTC [-]
trinque: gabriel_laddel: I want to sit down and catalog everything around me according to kind and relationship
trinque: then do arbitrary data analysis over it, and fast, damn it!
trinque: most businesses out there (that make a profit even!) are entirely blind
trinque: or they happened upon a few tools that answered enough of the essential questions that they never bothered asking more
trinque: asciilifeform: that doesn't solve it for me either, really
trinque: many user interfaces are essentially an editor for the where clause, order by, and so on for some query
trinque: the conditionals involved are not necessarily known in advance
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87068 @ 0.00056836 = 49.486 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: I don't buy that you should know in advance every interesting question you might ask your data
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, phf, Adlai, gabriel_laddel: still curious about deploying CL code to running instances
☟︎ trinque: but perhaps that doesn't follow; I dunno yet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124100 @ 0.00058934 = 73.1371 BTC [+] {4}
ben_vulpes: wow i just remembered that gribble integration you wrote
trinque: where an index had to be written for every "query" in advance
phf: ben_vulpes: it was assbot. i started on gribble, but it doesn't work as well
trinque: gabriel_laddel: could be millions of rows or more; how many widgets does factory X fart out per year?
trinque: what are all the classifications and distinctions involved in doing so?
trinque: how many interesting relationships exist?
phf: gribble returns identical strings for everyone, so there's no way to know if verify request is directed to you or someone else
gabriel_laddel: Allegrocache is the only lisp solution that will work for this size dataset afaik, and I've spent a lot of time looking.
ben_vulpes: or perhaps we want to track quality ratings for *every widget produced*
ben_vulpes: coviariance analysis with shop humidity at the time
trinque: mhm, should be able to add classifications at will all day long
trinque: and I wanna goddamn *see* the relationships
trinque: or why did I build this cockpit for my business at all?
trinque: so I could memorize it all and go on my gut?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: notably data modeling and analysis is one of the Franz offerings
assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:34:13; mircea_popescu: but past that... who the fuck cares.
trinque imagines cazalla trying to cross his eyes to look at both
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51118 @ 0.00056031 = 28.6419 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36527 @ 0.00055158 = 20.1476 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: re: solder balls: unfortunately sop these days
decimation: everything is lightly glued with shit solder
decimation: sux. they must have ripped out all the debug for production cheapness
decimation: yeah, also there are probably hardware variants, according to your research
decimation: obviously somebody is pumping these out by the mega-boat load
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25757 @ 0.00059018 = 15.2013 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2743 @ 0.00059018 = 1.6189 BTC [+]
cazalla: gabriel_laddel, good but his tantrums have kicked up a notch and he climbs everything
cazalla: missus wants another but seems last months attempts didn't strike :P
cazalla: he's pretty clever, stacked a couple pillows in order to get up on the tv unit
cazalla: enjoys books too which is good but reading jack and the beanstalk for 20th time each day gets a bit much, he's really picked up with that past 1-2 months bring us books to read him
mod6: asciilifeform: nice pics. protocol? maybe i don't get what you're asking exactly, but it says "D8027G1"
cazalla: well, all parents like to think that of their kids but time will tell, i've read to him each day since he was born
trinque: that's a hell of a step in the right direction
gabriel_laddel: "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
cazalla: perhaps trilema when he is a bit older (side note - the story about the boy and the tree is a good one i'll read to him when a little older)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97300 @ 0.00059067 = 57.4722 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00059129 = 21.3456 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.15099999 = 1.359 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.15099999 = 1.51 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.15099999 = 1.057 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 11 @ 0.15090322 = 1.6599 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.15099999 = 1.661 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 12 @ 0.15090322 = 1.8108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.15099999 = 1.359 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 12 @ 0.15090322 = 1.8108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.15099999 = 1.812 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.15099999 = 1.963 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 14 @ 0.15090322 = 2.1126 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.15099999 = 1.963 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24687 @ 0.00056448 = 13.9353 BTC [-] {2}
decimation:
http://spacenews.com/china-eyes-purchase-of-sea-launch-assets/ < "Struggling commercial launch-service provider Sea Launch AG and its owner, Energia of Russia, are in talks with the Chinese government on selling the Sea Launch command ship and launch platform to Chinese interests that would station the system in international waters offshore China, industry officials said."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89998 @ 0.00059234 = 53.3094 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: Worlds first Bitcoin only MMORPG with possibility to earn actual Satoshi's, Eulora is gaining momentum. : Bitcoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1Mf1E9D )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00058117 = 11.7978 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27473 @ 0.00057034 = 15.669 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44576 @ 0.00057049 = 25.4302 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88468 @ 0.00058089 = 51.3902 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2832 @ 0.00059287 = 1.679 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113626 @ 0.00059344 = 67.4302 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56624 @ 0.00059945 = 33.9433 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71435 @ 0.00056466 = 40.3365 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151100 @ 0.00056086 = 84.7459 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73446 @ 0.00060033 = 44.0918 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74850 @ 0.00055337 = 41.4197 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15159 @ 0.00056862 = 8.6197 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17767 @ 0.00054599 = 9.7006 BTC [-]
punkman: would you also like a bridge with that?
punkman: banks reopen after 3 weeks
punkman: you can't get your money but they still call it a bank
rooder: meanwhile al buys unheard of island to open a cannery
rooder: busy working on bitcoin darkpools?
rooder: is germany that frightened of turkish bread?
punkman: "The loan will have a maximum maturity of three months and will be disbursed in up to two instalments. It will allow Greece to clear its arrears with the IMF and the Bank of Greece and to repay the ECB, until Greece would start receiving financing under a new programme from the European Stability Mechanism"
rooder: you reside in england now?
rooder: where you dont need crowbars to final loans
rooder: you proley live down the road
rooder: that said the economics here are equally retarded\
rooder: have decimation look at it
rooder: little bit like nz little bit like france ... voila
rooder: what does greece actually own?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39050 @ 0.00055957 = 21.8512 BTC [+] {2}
nanaki: trilema.com is down now, I think.
assbot: Revealed: why slim people dislike the overweight - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent ... (
http://bit.ly/1RIN52O )
nanaki: Must I wait 4-5 hours to meet mircea_popescu here?
Naphex: nanaki: you can just join when he's around
BingoBoingo: It's really hard to tell when he will return. Might be back in 5 minutes or 18 hours. Eulora made him even less predictable than before.
cazalla: the great thing about irc though is that you can leave a message now and just tab back in an hour, tmw or even next week
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00057582 = 23.7238 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61612 @ 0.00054585 = 33.6309 BTC [-] {2}
nanaki: My (nanaki's) message to mircea_popescu: I have placed a bet on bitbet.us and sent BTCs and successfully confirmed at block# 366130 but the website doesn't apply it. The bottom of the page says "Last block: 1 hour 4 minutes ago (366131)" so it must have applied my bet. ==> SOLVED: the site reflected my bet 1h 18m later since confirmed. Usually the reflection is quick so I slightly panicked! Thank you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80582 @ 0.00056746 = 45.7271 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71362 @ 0.0005842 = 41.6897 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49838 @ 0.00058898 = 29.3536 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00057986 = 9.9736 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85550 @ 0.00059922 = 51.2633 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86254 @ 0.00059922 = 51.6851 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00059922 = 6.0521 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60984 @ 0.00059922 = 36.5428 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89498 @ 0.00060014 = 53.7113 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00058952 = 42.0917 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00058334 = 8.1084 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: 311M 996G LOGDROPIN all -- !lo * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 lulz
mircea_popescu: incidentally kakobrekla could assbot be changed so instead of dropping a bitly links it drops an archive.today link ?
hazirafel: would you use a program that sends bitcoin to the cruch of satane very time you enter facebook?
mircea_popescu: and what's "enter" anyway, every time you load a webpage that pulls their fucktarded button ?
cazalla: hazirafel, why the CoS instead of some other charity?
mircea_popescu: pro tip : if your AN is in there you're a fucktard, i don't care if your name is "verizon"
cazalla: hazirafel, i would suggest the Human Fund
cazalla: lol why would that bother me
cazalla: speaking of Seinfeld.. "On Wednesday (April 29) the online streaming service Hulu struck a deal with the “show about nothing,” paying $700,000 per episode ($130 million) for the rights to add the series to its already stellar lineup."
mircea_popescu: btw cazalla qntra should be back now. not sure how long it'll hold, but - publish anything you may have backing up your publishpipes
cazalla: thankfully it's been quiet, BingoBoingo might have one or had one in mind though
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nanaki find a better hobby, what can i tell you.
cazalla: that's a pretty fail attempt tbh
cazalla: sok for another woman to lick an ass, just don't ask me to do it, sorta how fucking twins is fine as you're not the one committing incest
mircea_popescu: you think the married woman is committing adultery alone ?
kakobrekla: whats the difference between female tongue and male tongue ???
cazalla: kakobrekla, i don't know, it's not about that anyway, i just don't fancy sticking my tongue there but to each their own
mircea_popescu: cazalla well you realise if your bar for being bothered is "being pictures of ME doing things", i got god's own work cut out for me here...
cazalla: mircea_popescu, how is it an incestous act for me if i am not related to them?
cazalla: fuck, so be it then if it mean doing twins
mircea_popescu: problem with doing twins is that, like anything else in life, you get used to it.
cazalla: and nothing much bothers me, why should i be bothered someone else enjoys giving rimjobs
cazalla: i'll have to take your word for it as this is a problem i doubt i will ever have
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91988 @ 0.00057922 = 53.2813 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32678 @ 0.00057293 = 18.7222 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00059668 = 7.19 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31750 @ 0.00058489 = 18.5703 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25812 @ 0.00058489 = 15.0972 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46250 @ 0.0005728 = 26.492 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.00056223 = 24.7662 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22809 @ 0.00055666 = 12.6969 BTC [-]
decimation: my blk0009.dat diverges from mod6's too - one of my blk0008.dat matches his (sha256sums). Something weird happens in blk0009 (approx block height < 300k)
decimation: my blk0009.dat 6f230687f04b41d5cc3d5f3b9cdd497c1b9103394eeda96cef1d0998b3c5d185 : I'm syncing from ascii's node using 'stator'
shinohai should try a resync to ascii's node
mod6: as a reminder tho, those hashes of my .dat files were from "the wild" sync.
mod6: i'll be revisiting this not too long from now with some hashes from mp's orig chain
shinohai: @ mod6 does the MP node sync past the phork now?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2863 @ 0.00055666 = 1.5937 BTC [-]
mod6: haven't gotten there yet on nsl's node
mod6: my openbsd one is crawling along.
shinohai: I haven't synced stator yet. My release 0.5.3 is still up always though.
mod6: nice, what block are you on?
shinohai: 366172 it updated but on regular blockchain
mod6: did it sync the same way from block 0->current in the same manner, i.e. by finding nodes all over irc?
shinohai: mod6 yes it only connected to irc nodes i guess, since it is before the irc demolition.
shinohai: pogo is on hold until I get an ssd, still is a great chat server
mod6: thanks for reporting back on that
mod6: haha, pogo chat server?
shinohai: It's nice being the first guy to destroy a SATA installing arch on a pogo
mod6: it bricked the drive?
shinohai: yeah. made a screech and was gone. I have had that one forever though. I got 5 more old satas but I should just do things right with an ssd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00055316 = 1.7701 BTC [-]
mod6: yikes, threw a bering 'eh
mod6: well, thanks for putting in the effort to test this stuff, we appreciate it.
shinohai: I love this shit, takes me a bit of time to catch up with you warriors, but I'm getting there.
mod6: for sure. thanks, we need all the help we can get.
shinohai: Buying a pogo with btc that was on my 0.5.3. node was kinda cool too.
shinohai: I kinda figured that but what can you do.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i thought everybody knew, at this point, that one cannot expect to end up with same blkxxxx at all times, on account of forklets. << yeah i recall.
mod6: i guess more importantly than that, im gonna do a for(0->366XXX) dump of each block and hash it, compare it to the list that you ended up with ascii.
mod6: 69! yeah, we need more nodes.
mod6: is this the one where blkcut error made it fall over?
shinohai: asciilifeform: which is the nsa lab node at again?
shinohai: @ mod6 when I raise a few more btc and a few bugs worked out, I am going to put 2 more up, one at my gf's house and one at my friends.
mod6: heheh. well, just make sure if you /do/ put up a node, it is somewhat phasar resistant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00055316 = 4.5912 BTC [-]
mod6: I'm gonna put up a few too, but gotta wait about 6 wks.
shinohai: me too. First ssd, then expansion. >;3
shinohai: Also, if anyone needs proofreaing and ed work done this week I am free to work :D
mod6: if you're looking for something to keep you busy for an evening, you can test out the gentoo x86-64 nomultilib guide
mod6: we need a 3rd person to verify this thing so i can finally send it to the lst.
shinohai: link me. I have never installed gentoo in my life, but a good time to learn
mod6: ah, yeah, so ... this guide is for a physical box (takes you through using livecd) -- if you wanna set it up in a VM im sure you can do something similar with a livecd, just hvae to attach the iso file to the virtual dvd/cdrom drive.. and probably follow the same steps.
mod6: bah. ignore that second one. that's for uclibc.
shinohai: Thanks mod6 I'll get on it this evenin'
shinohai usually ignores notes on distros besides his own
mod6: shinohai: awesome! no rush either. when you get time is cool. let me know how it goes, i'll be around to answer q's.
shinohai: np an education is a terrible thing to waste.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65332 @ 0.00055429 = 36.2129 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: the first doc is just the commands you need, so it's kinda cut/pasteable. the second is the commands with their output so you can get a sense of what you should expect to see.
shinohai: I'm a masochist and type everything LOL
mod6: haha, no worries. that's fine too.
shinohai: Time is the most important asset for testing. I still want to prove that a small group can outproduce the "bitcoin foundation" sans their immense budget they blew.
shinohai: outproduce: Make a better product.
shinohai: Or a more high-performing one.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109083 @ 0.00056146 = 61.2457 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33917 @ 0.00056865 = 19.2869 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00055196 = 36.7881 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00055086 = 20.2716 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52808 @ 0.00056298 = 29.7298 BTC [+]
shinohai: whelp it seems pogos make excellent mining controllers, not that I mine anymore.
trinque: shinohai: guide's really easy
shinohai: Looks so trinque, and I hopped on craigslist and bought a shitty laptop for $100
trinque: they've got "Free Geek" here for scrap
trinque: I tend to make my way there once a week or so
shinohai: I wish we had something like that here. I blow so much on used equipment xD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00055086 = 29.4159 BTC [-]
trinque: shinohai: sometimes goodwill also has an electronics dept, depending on where you're at
shinohai: Yeah but they have incredibly shitty electronics at our Goodwill. I usually troll craigslist and sometimes get free parts.
shinohai: But today, pickings were slim and I needed a spare lappy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68350 @ 0.00054738 = 37.4134 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: Thank you for your continued dedication.
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 no time to mine because all this foundation stuff fell on his head.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36952 @ 0.00054514 = 20.144 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone amused at how the "mainstream media" took all of five seconds to decide random white dude was "racially motivated" blowing up a black church, wheras they're still "trying to look for motives" that paki dude shot up the marines ?
mircea_popescu: and i suspect all this is autism related and should prolly be a med insurance deductable, like kinetotherapy.
mircea_popescu: there is this particular thing in autists where being compressed widely helps
trinque: man that thing makes me uncomfortable
trinque: anybody ever wants my launch codes, there's the way
trinque: mircea_popescu: I could see it being nice for people with sensory overload issues
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17809 @ 0.0005607 = 9.9855 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98979 @ 0.00055194 = 54.6305 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00054514 = 3.6094 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00056298 = 2.7023 BTC [+]
trinque: mod6: BingoBoingo: what are your opinions on using random-id and reassemble tcp in incoming traffic through pf?
trinque: and more generally, any recommended practices?
trinque has found the openbsd manpages to be in a class of their own
mod6: trinque: what are you trying to achieve?
trinque: mod6: best practices for home router with several hosts behind it
mod6: im not positive (i don't have access to my pf.conf atm) that i've ever used random-id. i think that's for a very specific problem. but yeah you probably /do/ want scrub all reassemble tcp
mod6: looks like you can use random-id for some normalizatoin purposes... main thing is here, read the pf.conf man page 2x and then build up your firewall and use the heck outta tcpdump to ensure what your rule set is as you want it.
mod6: start simple, then build in more complexity as only necessary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54642 @ 0.00056848 = 31.0629 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29379 @ 0.0005685 = 16.702 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <trinque> mod6: BingoBoingo: what are your opinions on using random-id and reassemble tcp in incoming traffic through pf? << Haven't used either of those yet. Pretty much use block, pass, and queue
trinque: former seems like handling internal host derpage (winblowz for example)
trinque: latter seems to have to do with hiding facts about the inner network topology
trinque: maybe asciilifeform's perspective on mitigations applies to the latter
trinque: asciilifeform: re aslr and other things
trinque: seemed to be a point about superficial mitigations vs fixing the underlying issue
trinque: in this case it'd be as BingoBoingo said, don't have fucking dumb hosts that can't TCP
mod6: asciilifeform: ever get a chance to look at those bins?
mod6: np. it can wait for a bit.
mod6: the openssl configure script (perl lel) seems to indicate that no-shared is the default -- but i wanna be sure.
mod6: openssl-1.0.1g # grep "my \$no_shared" Configure \ my $no_shared=0; # but "no-shared" is default
trinque: whole sentence needs to be chopped and screwed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46899 @ 0.00057176 = 26.815 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00055508 = 11.7122 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu, who is opposed to scalability due to his vocal disdain for “the poor”
mircea_popescu: i am not opposed "to scalability". i am opposed to very specific idiocy for very clearly delineated technical reasons.
hanbot: srsly, why's "the poor" in quotes?!
mircea_popescu: i just don't happen to be clueless enough to confuse those for "Scalability". considering i am not actually a technical expert, this reflects very poorly opn the intellectual abilities and assorted scholarship of random derps opining on nasdaq.com
mircea_popescu: and in any case - it's not some "disain for the poor" that's at work. just because everyone is on a (mostly hypocritical) fixation on loving the poor does not make my position disdain
mircea_popescu: i merely do not give enough of a shit about the cause celebre du jour to neglect technical arguments for its sake.
mircea_popescu: if anyone still has a twitter account, maybe link the derp to the above. you never know when athlete face learns something from the internets.
mircea_popescu: "The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of The NASDAQ OMX Group, Inc." mmmmkay... then why are you publishing it ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, because fiat glbse is so desperate for <<organic traffic>> they're resorting to the politically correct version of spun content & keyword stuffing" ? kthx.
mircea_popescu: if my father weren't a total fuckwit, he'd have told me "my son, you'll make a billion dollars before you'll read a two page item about you that manages to eschew glaring errors".
mircea_popescu: that'd have been interesting to know twenty years ago.
mircea_popescu: trinque i think the manuals are the secret reason keeping any bsd userbase.
mircea_popescu: strangely enough, nobody seems to learn anything from this.
chetty: visa doesn't dicriminate against 'the poor', they just either don't give them credit or charge them bucket for it
trinque: mircea_popescu: makes sense, they're excellent.
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah. more important for a powerful foss than gcc.
mircea_popescu: the one thing closed source can never do is good docs.
mircea_popescu: somehow the bright strategic minds involved missed this point.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Oh those were the paid, pretentious herders of the unpaid. But since Denton clamped down on their lulz Apparently herding interns is too much nao.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the one thing closed source can never do is good docs. << But then how would they sell support as a seperate product?
mircea_popescu: the "sell support" model has been thoroughly debunked in the field. or at least that's the moral i draw from revierwing history.
mircea_popescu: the only endpoint for that is where rhel ended up : a cheaper USG Department of Windows.
mircea_popescu: if that's what you aim to do with your life, go to new york join the police force.
BingoBoingo: "sell support" worked for cisco and oracle when marketing to the helpless and overencumbered with bezzle
mircea_popescu: it took them to the same dark place, and recently cost them their entire business.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you paying for the server or just using one already deployed ?
mircea_popescu: aha. if you wish to pro-rate towards nsa budget i'll ok it.
BingoBoingo: Not even a year and thing's now something to stand up on boxes
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incredibru huh ? one alf plows like 1024 chickens.
mod6: Can only check teh weather if in assbots L2. Which is very temperate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00057411 = 23.4237 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ^ China now doing the biggest SQL join in history. #AshleyMadison #OPMhack
mircea_popescu: ". The essence of Gawker has always been what happens when we get out of those meetings and go back to writing and editing the stories you do that no one else can do. "
mircea_popescu: these schmucks actually thought they do something remarkable in any sense ?
mircea_popescu: fascinating what derps actually sell themselves into. gawker editorial actually thinks it's more than a branded chicken coop
mircea_popescu: they probably imagine they ever published anything worth reading, too.
mircea_popescu: next i'm gonna hear shit farmers in kenya think they're pulling the sun up each morning.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> next i'm gonna hear shit farmers in kenya think they're pulling the sun up each morning.// they aren't?
mircea_popescu: kinda funny to see the us reduced to the 50th state of the great nation of africa, but then again
assbot: Amazon.com: Baconlube- Bacon Flavored Massage Oil & Personal Lubricant by J&D's: Health & Personal Care ... (
http://bit.ly/1OifAhz )
mircea_popescu: anyway, the one notable thing re gawker is that the twerps smokling the crack pipe of radical-this-and-that do not have either the intellectual wherewithal to notice nor the mental acumen to actually create THEIR OWN FUCKING BLOGS.
mircea_popescu: seriously, you gotta write emails to the staff about stuff like this ?
mircea_popescu: "oh here's a backroom napkin scribbled with my protest over the culture of backroom dealing these people imported into our fine organisation of delusions of transparency. i am too stupid to understand how ridiculous i'm being. NEOTENY FOR THE VICTORY!!11"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00057285 = 21.7683 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: gawker does "radical transparency" don't you know. when you fuck with me you can read all about it on trilema, but it's gawker that's radically transparent. a bunch of twerps whose names nobody even happens to know. paragons in their own minds of things they don't understand, nor would understand even if they actually tried thinking about 'em.
mircea_popescu: coming up next, "top 5 best program names for amd compatibility"
kakobrekla: that parsing and saving is very slow on some sites and i dunno if we want to hit him with everything ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98300 @ 0.00056044 = 55.0913 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40999 @ 0.00055064 = 22.5757 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22901 @ 0.00054514 = 12.4843 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00054466 = 16.4487 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00055301 = 28.2588 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69817 @ 0.00054389 = 37.9728 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51228 @ 0.00055308 = 28.3332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00056223 = 25.469 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00056223 = 7.7026 BTC [+]
phf: <mircea_popescu> fascinating what derps actually sell themselves into. gawker editorial actually thinks it's more than a branded chicken coop << from a limited experience, that seems like a sop in certain kind of sillicon-valley inspired u.s. company. a combination of "you can do anything!" with worst sort of delusions of grandeur.
phf: ties nicely with that tlp article about "the real me"
trinque: phf: yeah, these companies practically force their employees to take part in it
gernika: That's the reason I can't work as a startup employee anymore: they want you to *believe*
trinque: can't just do your job; you have to be drunk on whatever half-assed propaganda they came up with
trinque tosses "passionate" on the american pyre
phf: i worked for one such company last year, joined out of curiousity, but stayed to finish projects i was responsible for. the amount of dysfunctional behavior was staggering.
phf: they had socially mandatory fist bumps, instead of hand shakes, by way of greeting.
phf: ceo would regularly send out "vote for us as the best place to work in the city", "vote for me as the best ceo"
gernika: phf Did you have to endure a hackathon?
phf: gernika: i didn't have to endure much, except shortage of competent underlings, but i witnessed cto organizing hackathon for other teams, and it was painful. blind leading the blind
phf: it took me a while to even realize that the majority of employees had less then 3 years of programming experience, majority of managers had no software project experiences, etc. i didn't really understand until experiencing it first hand, that a large software company can be so utterly dysfunctional. and yet "we're all winners!"
trinque: you get pizza and beer and invite shmoes off the street to come "hack"
trinque: and expect them to ... not sure what
mats: solve problems for free!
phf: we had a better thing than hackathon. a small group of junior developers were tasked with designing a curriculum and writing tutorials for training people with zero computer skills to become rails developers. to, i shit you not, "help disadvantaged peoples".
trinque: the concept was obviously shat by marketing people who believed in the myth of "the weekend app that made a million bezzlars"
trinque: obviously if it worked for "them" it'll solve all our corporate dysfunction
gernika: trinque that type of hackathon is innocuous compared to mandated hackathons at work.
trinque: phf: like this was gonna get some bum off the street, making rails sites?
trinque: gernika: yeah, the one where they fucked up project management so you're gonna ship this weekend by god!
gernika: At one such hackathon, employees were encouraged to spend the night in the office.
trinque: all of these people are useless
phf: trinque: i was at one "interview" with a guy with zero programmer experience, straight from "you can do anything!" video, we're talking "dropped out of art degree to become a waiter, but hours were brutal, so i want to become a programmer"
trinque: clearly the only thing preventing idiocracy is that it could never get that far
trinque: phf: seems to come from an american notion that you get ahead by pulling one over on everyone else
trinque: there's this one neat trick they don't want you to know after all
trinque: and it surely isn't competent people working hard, anything but that
trinque: the greatest thing you can be is a 20 year old billionaire that blasted off doing something pedestrian
gernika: There was one hackathon which, at the time I hated, but in retrospect had some redeeming value to it. People formed their own teams and worked on their own ideas and at the end, the CEO judged the results.
gernika: CEO told our team ours sucked.
phf: that's an old school notion, trickster as a hero and all that, but i don't think this is that. these people are not even hustlers, i don't think there's any awareness there.
gernika: Which, hey - would good if that happened more. Sadly the CEO's own idea turned out to suck and the startup went out of business.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78733 @ 0.00056226 = 44.2684 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91700 @ 0.00056619 = 51.9196 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105348 @ 0.0005712 = 60.1748 BTC [+] {5}
phf: asciilifeform: btw hackthons used to be face to face development sessions by free software teams, when they had opportunity to all congregate at some location. coined afair by theo, but went the same way as "open" and such