assbot: Logged on 27-11-2015 21:46:14; assbot: Breaking: Suspected Lone Gunman Wounds 3 (Update: 4) Colorado Police Officers, Still At Large | Qntra ... (
http://bit.ly/1NyYHDK )
assbot: Logged on 26-11-2015 20:20:07; thestringpuller: ;;later tell asciilifeform is it legit?
ascii_field: i am always astonished when folks ask question like this
assbot: Logged on 27-11-2015 21:57:56; phf: jurov: you know how it is here, there's one small problem, gets elevated to shitgnomes in all the things!!1 status
assbot: Logged on 27-11-2015 22:46:25; jurov: just found there are several static maps and sets tucked in misc functions, too...
mircea_popescu: the usage of statics in that pile is still not understood [in its implications]. stands as a major sore point to this very day, six years later.
mircea_popescu: yeah, one of these days we'll make a sore point list of things, as a necessary [early] step towards printable btc.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2015#1332526 << for the record/future and as best practice : mod6's style of doing these, with pastes etc is much better, because it allows later effort to build upon previous effort. deedbot- is also not a bad venue to store this sort of thing, seeing how it's just code atm. "when i do so and so this is the bt resultant".
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 27-11-2015 23:20:05; ascii_field: yes.
ascii_field: even far more modest goal like 'doesn't consume infinite ram' is far beyond reach.
jurov: igprof won't work with stator, i guess?
ascii_field: at one point i considered bolting on stroustrup's 'smart pointers' thing but gave up in disgust
mircea_popescu: anyway, point remains, if someone [such as jurov] decides to spend a day on this he should have to use as little as possible hunting the history as that leaves as much as possible to actually doing work.
☟︎ ascii_field: actually the only reason i logged on presently was to help jurov
jurov: the patch adds -l dl to LIBS
ascii_field: because there is actually not a good record of the last thing i did
ascii_field: jurov: i don't recall now if there was any actual reason it had to run with dynamic libc
ascii_field: the process used to be me elaborately chronicling my travails on the ml
CheckDavid: So Gyft has a 25% discount on giftcards? How can one take good advantage of the offer?
CheckDavid: ANy ideas from the great minds in here?
ascii_field: there is a dismal ru version of the 'sword in the stone' sorta legend
ascii_field: where there is a little iron ring in the earth
ascii_field: and a sign, telling strong men 'pull with all your might'
ascii_field: until he ended up buried entirely in the earth.
mod6: <+jurov> igprof won't work with stator, i guess? << i'm trying to recall the details... but i think it compiled ok iirc, but when I ran it (on a gentoo amd64 env) I couldn't get any thing to dump out for some reason.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate CheckDavid -1 Too young yet. May reconsider this in a year.
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: !rate CheckDavid -1 Too young yet. May reconsider this in a year.
assbot: CheckDavid is not registered in WoT.
mod6: anyway, i need to give the IgProf hooks another try in a different, nongentoo env and see.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00051363 = 3.6468 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: theoretically, 'sviato' == holy; 'gor' ~= 'of mountains'
phf: what i meant to say is that sometimes ascii talks precise, but sometimes with a certain amount of flair, which roughly translates into "the problem is nasty, with many unknowns, and requires excessive amount of investigation and work, if it's even solvable at all." this was the second case, i.e. not literally clear(), not necessarily boost, needs further independent investigation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00049712 = 3.629 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: phf: in this particular case, there is also another thing - whether the problem is solvable without committing 'power rangerism' and mutilating the patient beyond recognition into a monstrous chimera
assbot: Breaking: Suspected Lone Gunman Wounds 3 (Update: 5) Colorado Police Officers, Still At Large | Qntra ... (
http://bit.ly/1NyYHDK )
ascii_field: presently i do not even know how to cure the far more straightforward 300 bytes/block thing, without walking into this
ascii_field: (and it HAS to be cured before pogo can be a thing)
mircea_popescu: not all tumours are operable, is the sad fact of biology.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a valid and an invalid thing that i can readily see going under the same mantle. the valid side is an outgrowth of "no, we're not putting up with any shit, because shit reproduces itself, if you're going to make a sterile environment it gotta be sterile". the invalid part is well, paranoia, basically. "world is out to get itself!!!"
phf: one thing that i see happening here is a subtrate problem, i.e. oh boost is crap gotta use std c++, oh c++ is crap gotta use lisp, oh lisp is hosted on unix, gotta host on bare metal, oh bare metal is crap gotta vhdl our own cpu, oh can't do our own cpu because 3 factories. i'm not sure where that leaves us exactly
phf: in this case "broken because of boost" is more like a description of an OSI layer, i.e. uknowable things are happening somewhere in the datastructures level of things
felipelalli: BingoBoingo, I just sent you an email with my first Qntra article. Good luck to me :)
jurov: for the record: igprof won't work with stator, must change STATIC=all to STATIC=1 in stator.sh to get dynamic executable at final link time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3620 @ 0.00049815 = 1.8033 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12392 @ 0.00049816 = 6.1732 BTC [+]
felipelalli: BingoBoingo, I did not understand the item 4, how can I create a link?
felipelalli: Another question: strong, em etc. are HTML tags?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4327 @ 0.00049712 = 2.151 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4003 @ 0.00049711 = 1.9899 BTC [-]
mod6: i feel like I have to watch it now lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10290 @ 0.00049643 = 5.1083 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: watched Un Prophete the other day, pretty damn good
trinque: I just watched one of the dance scenes on youtube; Travolta is *awful*.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6309 @ 0.00049467 = 3.1209 BTC [-]
phf: parents were telling me how saturday night was like the coolest movie in soviet uniont. nobody have seen it, but everyone talked about it. having a leisure suite from checkoslovakia was the pinnacle, etc. mom finally watched it in early 2000s, reaction was "wtf is this shit"
mircea_popescu: i am sure it was the coolest movie in the soviet union.
mircea_popescu: for specifically this reason : it is the direct equivalent to the set of euler's axioms.
mircea_popescu: the flesh in the west was starting to build a new socialism, and the flesh in the east wanted what flesh always wants.
mircea_popescu: the irony implicit being that had she watched it in 1978, she'd have thought it unspeakably great.
trinque: watched Forrest Gump again last night with a similar morbid curiousity. in it, he's the "hero" for no other reason than he is maximally obedient. he's the perfect american.
trinque: who needs official propaganda when it spews from every orifice?
mircea_popescu: "who needs blood when it spews from every orifice". seems like that's when you need it the most
phf: same people who thought themselves inoculated from soviet propaganda, fell for western one hook line and sinker
mircea_popescu: i happen to think the same is true of propaganda, even though it's an ideal object. by the time it's ubiquitous, the thing's going to shit. propaganda storm is a reflection of developing propaganda resistance.
mircea_popescu: phf well, you know, onoculated from propaganda, what's that even. "i'm done with love" ?
phf: well, our rocket is made of cardboard, but their jeans are made of american dream
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2015 22:29:08; mircea_popescu: why are usians dumb ?
trinque: to which I've been giving a great deal of thought since.
trinque: perhaps propaganda hole's clogged
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20950 @ 0.00049467 = 10.3633 BTC [-] {2}
phf: hehe that's a catchy song
mircea_popescu: "io-atita ma mindresc, io-atita ma mindresc si va spun : decit englez or neamt, franzuz, american mai bine, mai bine moldovan"
mircea_popescu: ie, i'm so very proud and i tell ya : rather than english or german, french or american, you're better off moldavian.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00049555 = 4.1131 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00049555 = 4.0635 BTC [+]
phf: that seems to tie with a broader point that once something is named, it's already over. propaganda storm is kind of like grabbing onto something stationary while in a current, and realizing that there's a current to beging with, and that it's possibly strong.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:49:04; trinque: Citizenfive | What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. << I used to think this; lately I consider it an autoimmune disorder caused by lifetime immersion in symbolic shit
trinque: pretty hilarious sentence by Citizenfile there, too.
mircea_popescu: propaganda storm most closely resembles insulin fatigue i'd say.
mircea_popescu: trinque in point of fact, words mattering is just another luxury good
mircea_popescu: love or hate it, propaganda has a role in helping undifferentiated cells digest phenomena. pure, nude phenomena are indigestible by the human cell.
mircea_popescu: there's no reason for it to be "good" when kuhn describes it as a way for scientists to keep from being too stupid and also "bad" when ayers describes it as a way for red necks to still manage to fit in with their neighbours without shooting each other too much.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7402 @ 0.00049797 = 3.686 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <felipelalli> I wrote it on Emacs, I just re-sent. << I am at a loss now for how to extract this text
BingoBoingo never ceases to be surprised by the ways people bend GPG to produce bundles inside of bundles to the point it is impossible to discern where one might begin untangling the second bundles
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> like dioxin-free tomatoes. << or dioxin free roads/parks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00049556 = 5.1538 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's all the result of "easy to use" tools that run automagically.
BingoBoingo: fwiw this tends to happen msot often when messages are produced with GPG v2 and the first layer included mentions of MIME types
mircea_popescu: dumbest fucking idea. why THE FUCK would the transport layer be even aware of pgp as opposed to plaintext.
mircea_popescu: if i designed this, the -a flag would yield a "1024 most common english words" encoding.
BingoBoingo: If I designed this it would use 1024 most common nudes encoding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5798 @ 0.00049797 = 2.8872 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00049923 = 11.3076 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3838 @ 0.00050238 = 1.9281 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 00:10:35; mircea_popescu: anyway, point remains, if someone [such as jurov] decides to spend a day on this he should have to use as little as possible hunting the history as that leaves as much as possible to actually doing work.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7838 @ 0.0005073 = 3.9762 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: "This kid had an injury that I’d never seen before. Instead of articulating posteriorly to the patella, his femur went lateral while his tibfib went medial. Basically, his thigh was sliding to outside while his shin was sliding to the inside. I’d seen dislocations before, but his bones were cocked out at angles that were different from typical traumatic dislocations. To me, it simply looked like his knee gave in under the weig
mircea_popescu: "TLDR: Fat with knee problems. Fat mother. Fat people are a cancer. " << i wonder how come people will throw an absolute hissy fit should mother dare smoke, yet nobody seems to get too worried should mother be obese. yet smoking is not nearly as damaging as obesity.
mircea_popescu: seems a rehash of the entire "it's okay for fat woman to drown you in her lard in the subway. it's not ok for male to sit comfortably."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4974 @ 0.0005073 = 2.5233 BTC [+]
assbot: BitttBurger comments on Peter Todd: "Remember how we discussed adding Tor-by-default to Bitcoin Core? It'll be in v0.12!" ... (
http://bit.ly/1IfsfUw )
BingoBoingo: Brodinism just got a lot less appealing >> "Brothers I've been triggered! My lat has become so large with Brodin's blessings I find it difficult to reach around it and clean up after I've given yesterday's sustenance to the porcelain god. I fear if this continues I may have to use a rag on a stick!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11176 @ 0.00050794 = 5.6767 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: anwyay, commenters bring a good fucking point. when i was in my teens i went through about 25-30k calories a week, each week.
mircea_popescu: lmao they are going to dump all that tor bs on top of all that openssl bs on top of all that boost bs on top of all that qt bs into the client ?
BingoBoingo: Well, most american food is laced with the sugahs. Even the meats and breads. A lot of it is the sugahs that don't respond to insulin (fructose). Add vidya games. Add monsanto.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, Bitcoin "core" prolly needs some more fatshaming
BingoBoingo prolly going to write a still more explicit qntra style guide this weekend
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.81, Best ask: 356.86, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 356.96, 24 hour volume: 13739.54739798, 24 hour low: 349.47, 24 hour high: 364.8, 24 hour vwap: 358.009611894
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9861 @ 0.00050901 = 5.0193 BTC [+] {2}
gabrielradio: !rate jurov 3 everything went smooth on CoinBr.com
gabrielradio: !v assbot:gabrielradio.rate.jurov.3:64eb9735a730aa398969fbe1f0fe883595795057c54bcebd16fb0bb0122f0039
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for jurov with note: everything went smooth on CoinBr.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8481 @ 0.00050154 = 4.2536 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Dear Customer, lease see the below important updates on our services.
mircea_popescu: On the 19th of October 2015 we notified you of changes to our payment gateway service. We regret to announce that on Monday the 30th of November we will be rolling back these changes and the new "WorldPay" option will no longer be available. All of our previous payment options,with the exception of Payza will remain available. "
mircea_popescu: straight from horse's mouth (internet.bs). no idea if actually worth some research
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9870 @ 0.00050154 = 4.9502 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: heh, two things about sorana, the comedy : a) i think i wrote about a dozen words. the rest is simply taken from "leaked" romanian-nsa phone intercepts (strictly illegal to have those, and even illegal-er to leak them seeing how the trial was ongoing. but...)
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the intercepts were from "a dangerous ring of underage prostitute traffickers". who turned out to be indescribably dude-next-door sorta warm, cozy, familiar situation.
benkay: what needs doing - ircds on boxen and that's it?
benkay naive to downside implications of leaving freenode a smoking crater
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00049467 = 6.2328 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5852 @ 0.00049552 = 2.8998 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00050134 = 7.9212 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00050183 = 2.3837 BTC [+]
trinque: I haven't heard much discussion of music distribution here.
trinque: seems like a dying/dead business
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4157 @ 0.00049921 = 2.0752 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00049466 = 2.7419 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8528 @ 0.0005019 = 4.2802 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00049499 = 8.1426 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14050 @ 0.00049857 = 7.0049 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00049466 = 6.1585 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19950 @ 0.00050181 = 10.0111 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00049745 = 1.7659 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00049745 = 4.6263 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00049924 = 7.3638 BTC [+]
jurov: soo. i have managed to get MEM_LIVE to decrease by replacing mapNextTx.clear() by mapNextTx.erase(mapNextTx.begin(),mapNextTx.end())
☟︎ jurov: though, I'm now not sure clear() did it either, because i looked at MEM_TOTAL at first lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00049466 = 4.3035 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00049924 = 4.0438 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13937 @ 0.00049466 = 6.8941 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00049924 = 2.2715 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00049792 = 4.1327 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00049609 = 4.1672 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jurov does this mechanism do anything about fragmentation ? notrly huh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00049466 = 4.1304 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and unrelatedly, omfg busta rhymes is the best black people act since aretha franklin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00049466 = 7.964 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4519 @ 0.00049789 = 2.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00049792 = 3.2365 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5931 @ 0.00049995 = 2.9652 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.00049466 = 6.5048 BTC [-]
shinohai: reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3uigpd/peter_todd_remember_how_we_discussed_adding/ <<< Is Peter Todd insane ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.00049466 = 10.2147 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: he's been an outlier throughout. not more or less insane than the average for that place.
shinohai: After reading the comments, it appears to be collective insanity. I don't run core anymore anyway but bolting on tor kills it.
mircea_popescu: funny how "everyone" pretends tor is actually somehow a thing.
mircea_popescu: "That contrary to planted disinformation of which the Guardian article is a fine example, the NSA has complete and unlimited, instantaneous access to any and all information passed through the TOR network in its entirety, as a matter of course and by design."
mircea_popescu: what's it been, ONLY two full years ? still carrying on with it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19609 @ 0.00050171 = 9.838 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00050223 = 7.4079 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 11:37:16; jurov: soo. i have managed to get MEM_LIVE to decrease by replacing mapNextTx.clear() by mapNextTx.erase(mapNextTx.begin(),mapNextTx.end())
ascii_field: (this was the purpose of my - failed - experiment)
ascii_field: well there are a few gotchas, think about it - potentially a tx that is in the receive queue could turn bastard when pool is flushed
ascii_field: and, as mircea_popescu mentioned earlier, there is also the problem of fragging, which none of this even begins to deal with, nor is anything like a clean/simple solution to it known to me
mircea_popescu: and i am almost persuaded by now that the notion of chained tx must be done away with.
mircea_popescu: "no transaction may be included in mempool if it has ANY predecessors that have not been already mined"
mircea_popescu: i see why they wanted to pretend, but it is fundamentally contrary to design goals.
ascii_field: this would handily cure the ailment described last night.
mircea_popescu: i've been mulling it for months now, but there's no way out.
ascii_field wanted to suggest it originally but mircea_popescu was on a long 'this is your motherfucking grandfather's pistol and hands off' kick
mircea_popescu: notably, this would do nothing to break the protocol. how nodes handle their mempool is really their own problem.
ascii_field: didntcha always wonder why tx deletion had to be O(N) ?!
mircea_popescu: someone would have benefited immensely from a decent class in data structures.
mircea_popescu: of course, there's a 2nd layer of problems : had the code been neatly written by someone obviously clueful as to the fundamentals of computer programming, would we have believed.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: in what way is the rotten mess 'easier to believe' ?
mircea_popescu: seems easier to believe a lone wolf is dumb than clever.
mircea_popescu: "whenever you do a murder, you make 25 mistakes ; if you remember five of them afterwards you're lucky."
mircea_popescu: of course, back illo tempore any class on crypto necessarily begun with a "data structures" prior years earlier.
☟︎ ascii_field: this may be edging into rms&gcc territory, but the inscrutability of the turd did its part in keeping the original net from forking to death - by ensuring that all of the forks were retarded 'swap the genesis' rather than any serious improvement of the compatibility-breaking kind
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 16:30:41; mircea_popescu: of course, back illo tempore any class on crypto necessarily begun with a "data structures" prior years earlier.
ascii_field: one of the gnarliest of the req'd courses, even
mircea_popescu: anyway, my data seems to suggest that the enemy will be pushing a fork before the decade's out. whether we at that time have a counterfork ready or not is pretty much what decides the fate of the free world.
☟︎☟︎ ascii_field: mircea_popescu: enemy has pushed fork after fork, no ?
ascii_field: or we are speaking of some great wunderwaffen with actual planning & thought behind it
ascii_field: took'em a good while to glue all the envirowhiner sects into one juggernaut, aha
mircea_popescu: so far all the efforts went more in the line of the earlierly discussed tor : nobody uses it but we keep pretending yet the propaganda machine's in place,
ascii_field: and usg is, after all, mainly a plankton filter feeder
mircea_popescu: notrly, even to whale. gotta appreciate : if the niche exists, the plankton also exists.
ascii_field: and also i'm curious re: what is 'counterfork'
ascii_field: presumably, not classic grandfather's flintlock pistol btc ?
mircea_popescu: socialists, of which the usg is just an implementation, lose through there existing alternative. all that's needed really.
mircea_popescu: well i don't even know yet. vaguely defined, "a btc that won't give my computer hives"
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a btc with ringbuffer mempool, with the aforediscussed scoring mechanism for discounting txn, with encrypted connections and using any port is probablty good enough. hard to tell.
mircea_popescu: even "pogo-ready btc" might be good enough. definitely WOULD have been good enough, in 2015.
ascii_field: if anyone asked me, i would answer 'a btc de-usgized from the minerals up', which means not only silicon but a non-ecc cryptosig, and a number of other refinements
mircea_popescu: were you the derpy sort of player that never built a phalanx ?
mircea_popescu: then threw a fit when random barbarian landed and took your wonders ?
ascii_field: i had the motherfucking 'play with barbarians' patch
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'encrypted connection' item necessarily reduces to gossipd
ascii_field: (crypto without authentication and authentication without wot is of the heathens)
mircea_popescu: for some reason i read that as ram parity check something-or-the-other.
mircea_popescu: this will actually almost certainly be in there. gotta hurt the enemy not just in the matter at hand but across the field.
mircea_popescu: imagine, having to either a) ignore the matter or b) make a point that the evil people are not-using its beloved shitscheme!
mircea_popescu: but so far we don't even know if we actually want rsa (this for lack of gossipd) nor have we studied shoup etc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: l0l, think the thing is a hog now ? try with shoup
ascii_field: but for all i know, shoup is the only working scheme and the correct maximum of tx carrying capacity ~is~ 1% of what it is now
mircea_popescu: (leaving to reader's discretion which of the two this exemplifies)
ascii_field: i'd even go as far as to suggest the use of lamport signatures
ascii_field: but i will explain it when 'somebody asked'
mircea_popescu: "Although the potential development of quantum computers threatens the security of many common forms of cryptography such as RSA, "
mircea_popescu: let us indulge then. cramer-shoup is an asym key system, just like rsa or ecc.
ascii_field: could've sworn we worked out some of the basics here
mircea_popescu: it however was not only the first but to date the only afaik scheme that's secure against acca. provedly so.
mircea_popescu: (acca/cca2 = adaptive chosen cyphertext. it's an attack where you sort the cyphertexts in a tree, then send them to be decrypted
mircea_popescu: eventually managing to obtain the key through the interplay of your selection and weakness of the cryptosystem)
ascii_field: is it just me or is the very possibility of acca dependent on retardation in implementation ??
ascii_field: which is kinda why i never saw this particular attribute of an asymmetric cipher especially interesting
ascii_field: tards can ruin anything, regardless of how mathematically structured
mircea_popescu: a few years after its introduction to "forever fix" the nonsensical problem of "turning a stateless protocol into a stateful connection"
ascii_field: when folks start to attempt decryption of whatever piece of shit, just for the asking - then yes, acca
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ascii_field your gossipd node is stuck doing a version of this.
ascii_field: enemy has no way of learning anything from the attempted decrypt
ascii_field: which - yes - means that time quanta are fixed
mircea_popescu: suppose you build a node. your node "doesn't answer", but it DOES publish the relayed txn somewhere.
mircea_popescu: node m connects to A, sends garbage. if A manages to decrypt it, M will see it.
ascii_field: only if the relayed packet travels plaintext
ascii_field: otherwise he does not know if a particular packet got decrypted & relayed
ascii_field: because the channel is saturated at all times.
ascii_field: if time invariants are held to, this reduces to key bruteforcing
mircea_popescu: maybe. the matter has to be properly analyzed for all other schemes
ascii_field: normally, acca relies on sidechannels (e.g., karatsuba mult. timing)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31787 @ 0.00050414 = 16.0251 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: incidentally, i am not satisfied with any of the proposed replacements for pkcs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5281 @ 0.00050643 = 2.6745 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: also has the bonus advantage that there's exactly no risk of "clever" processor intructions being used.
ascii_field: ('slow' is a curable thing, generally; 'bloated' is not)
mircea_popescu: seems like the dream application for lisp, but what do i know.
ascii_field: well if mircea_popescu can locate another me but one that doesn't work a day job, he can ask for one
ascii_field: lulzily related, i was recently having a quiet laugh at usg's version of 'p'
mircea_popescu: anyway, none of this is even practical without mass cardanos, because iirc c-s consumes even more entropy than rsa.
ascii_field: it is made by galois inc., they call it 'cryptol'
ascii_field: not even a bad idea, it's this vaguely standardml-like contraption where you try to prove that your crypto alg works as specced
ascii_field: but written by industrial-scale kitten recyclers, aha.
mircea_popescu: "Cryptol is a domain-specific language for specifying cryptographic algorithms. A Cryptol implementation of an algorithm resembles its mathematical specification"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6287 @ 0.00050643 = 3.1839 BTC [+]
ascii_field: sorta lulzy, it was inevitable for them to end up with just this, because they hire academics
ascii_field: who love haskell etc. because it reliably generates pseudomathematicisms for 'publication'
mircea_popescu: "If the space of possible messages is larger than the size of , then Cramer–Shoup may be used in a hybrid cryptosystem to improve efficiency on long messages. Note that it is not possible to split the message into several pieces and encrypt each piece independently, because the chosen-ciphertext security property is not preserved in this way."
mircea_popescu: i mean haskell, i get it. pseudomathematicisms that are too gnarly to grasp and so pass muster.
mircea_popescu: "oh, she's only a slut i nthe hood, she washes up nice when going downtown"
ascii_field: i can absolutely believe that 'cryptol' is used in hitler's phone etc
ascii_field: usg has a number of own pediwikia-like creations, iirc
mircea_popescu: to quote the richest standup comedian of all time, "wouldn't it stand to reason that the air in your room comes from the very city that room is in ?"
ascii_field: i have not seen the internal one, save the supposedly 'leaked' pages, cannot say what it is like.
ascii_field: but presumable has correct maths, somewhere...
mircea_popescu: from my admittedly limited experience with socialist states... they all eat the same shit.
ascii_field: i suspect that usg's internal crypto works
ascii_field: because - elementarily - there is no place anywhere else for maths types
mircea_popescu: socialism is this great system to take hot chicks and smart boys and make them all play with pebbles until the day they die.
ascii_field: what if all you want is 'play with pebbles'
ascii_field: e.g., prove correctness (or otherwise) of cramer-shoup
jurov: ascii_field: so you say there's math-manhattan-project hidden somewhere?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00049861 = 7.3794 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you misunderstand the "play with pebbles". it's doing stuff like playing angry birds on iphone.
☟︎ jurov: re: ring buffer - does not solve the fragmentation the moment you want to reorder txs by fee. i see it as either using slab allocator or periodically dumping whole mempool to disk and reread it
mircea_popescu: jurov you don't reorder them physically. you just keep the ring's index up to date.
mircea_popescu: actually, i suppose i should go into detail as we have no good reason to suspect we actually agree on anything but the words. so :
jurov: and then a medium txfee transaction comes you, to throw one free tx out to make space.. but it won§t fit
jurov: throw out two, end up with wasted mem
mircea_popescu: n bytes are allocated to "ring buffer", from offset k to offset k+n. the convention of reading this is that structures started at k+n-m that are m+p bytes long continue from k+n to k and all the way to k+p
mircea_popescu: you separately keep an index of what structures you have in there (offset, length).
mircea_popescu: whenever you want to add something, you put it in the available hole. if you don't have a hole you kill something until you do.
mircea_popescu: how to do either of these is a problem of optimization outside the scope of this discussion.
mircea_popescu: but a firm guarantee can be offered that for as long as you allocate structs smaller than n, you wioll be able to fit them.
jurov: n is how much? 200kB
jurov: you want 500M transactions?
mircea_popescu: or w/e memory space one wants to allocatge to the "mempool"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu just described traditional malloc
ascii_field: or rather, fixed heap size variant thereof
ascii_field: which happens to be what i'm implementing right at this very moment
ascii_field: whole reason i'm at the console to begin with...
jurov: ascii_field: what do you think about slab allocator? i know it adds a layer of complication, but may be worth it
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the <jurov> lol part : there's a very obvious optimization where you go a) i want to fit this struct ; b) is there space ? if yes fit it if no c) kill the lowest per-byte value struct in there go back to a
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of work can be done to minimize wastage in this, but the fundamental problem is solved.
ascii_field: aha this was described in agonizing detail in the original mempool thread
jurov: also, unless whole thing is rewritten, itx consists of 2 vectors (inputs, outputs) with several objects and you want to remove all or none
ascii_field: the way the existing turd stores tx is untenable
ascii_field: (interdependent shitweb of links to 'inputs' and 'outputs')
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 17:21:16; mircea_popescu: ascii_field you misunderstand the "play with pebbles". it's doing stuff like playing angry birds on iphone.
ascii_field: so now i have a bit moar sympathy for the pebble folk
ascii_field: the 20x20x20 metre one from mircea_popescu's essay
ascii_field: the one with 'what makes you sorry lot think you get seats in heaven? there's a 20 metre cube fermentation tank...' or sumthinglikethat
mircea_popescu: ascii_field quote as to "opened my eyes", i know where the concrete hole is from
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13396 @ 0.00050105 = 6.7121 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: this thing, incidentally, is where we would immensely benefit from actually having silicon.
mircea_popescu: the whole txn memory mapping could be a soac thing, and you just plug memory sticks into it which each becomes a ring.
ascii_field worked this out in some detail, if anybody 'ever asks'
mircea_popescu: the motherboard has some memory on-board for the indexing and internal kitchening, and otherwise you maximize the strengths of ddr while escaping all drawbacks
ascii_field: (one rung of the ring ought to be the size of the r/w burst for the dram)
mircea_popescu: if only we had a cardano ready to ship so this discussion could double as marketing for the s.nsa next product.
mircea_popescu: as it is, it's free marketing for "21co"'s next potato.
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter. did anyone buy's 21co's PREVIOUS potato, when it was called neobee or w/e the shit it was called ?
mircea_popescu: the next one will be called something else, and so on.
mircea_popescu: don't tell me if we were in 1715 you'd have been the sort that actually distinguished the slaves.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field just think of this beautiful illustration of doing > thinking. just like you had your thoughts figured out by someone else, so will WE have these figured out by someone else. endlessly.
ascii_field: if my thoughts were never figured out by independent other folks, i would have to conclude that i have finally gone mad
mircea_popescu: but if your thoughts are figured out before you sell the thing, you will forever be looking for a job.
mircea_popescu: i suppose s.nsa should actually hire more engineers ? whadda ya think ?
ascii_field: well we currently have one engineer who works infamously slowly between death marches of day job. mircea_popescu thinks that two or more would work faster ?
mircea_popescu knows that he's supposed to be doing management for the thing and has no product whatsoever to show the investors THREE years later! this is the 3rd xmas.
ascii_field: undercapitalized cat is undercapitalized ? afaik s.nsa can't afford even 1/3rd of a whole engineer
mircea_popescu: anyway, in the even keeled view of the matter, a person can only be participating in one death march at a time. since you're working with some other company, and it doesn't seem to be wanting to list itself, we need an engineer actually working for s.nsa ?
ascii_field: well i won't be working with $othercompany for much longer...
mircea_popescu: unlike any other concern, s.nsa pays everyone ~100% of what theyr work is worth
assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00005 / 0.0000512 / 0.000055 (10000 shares, 0.51 BTC), 30D: 0.00005 / 0.0000512 / 0.000055 (10000 shares, 0.51 BTC)
mircea_popescu: company with 9980 satoshi/share in capital on the books nevertheless trading at 5500. now that's one hell of a performance.
ascii_field: this is not hard, just use engineer that works day job... but this has flip side, yes
mircea_popescu: apparently the "lose half your money" thing is still with the btc public huh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to reassure teh investors : s.nsa actually does have 456.01462284 in cash, should the company be wound down today it would distribute ~9626 satoshi per share to investors.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4196 @ 0.00049861 = 2.0922 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 354.02, Best ask: 355.01, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 353.99, 24 hour volume: 21705.98693894, 24 hour low: 351.0, 24 hour high: 363.29, 24 hour vwap: None
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what was 'the lose half your money thing' ?
mircea_popescu: not really, started by glbse, maintained by every single non-mpex "bitcoin business" to date.
mircea_popescu: no, that was before nefario, theymos, goat & the rest of the friends split.
ascii_field: pet: 'aintcha glad you didn't take preorders'
ascii_field: me: 'i'd be looking for a kaisyaku for the seppuku'
mircea_popescu: see, had you stolen and sold some soviet tanks for scrap in 2009 you could have moved to ba in 2013 and been looking for an engineer to join your workshop today.
ascii_field: l0l if i even knew how to steal a broken cent properly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2956 @ 0.00049872 = 1.4742 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3668 @ 0.00050643 = 1.8576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00050643 = 5.3175 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00050113 = 4.7607 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00050473 = 3.2303 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4118 @ 0.0005023 = 2.0685 BTC [-]
assbot: Yoga Class Is Suspended After Students Deem It Culturally Inappropriate – The Ticker - Blogs - The Chronicle of Higher Education ... (
http://bit.ly/1MLcrru )
phf: so gossip should be able to accept variable size packets, a naive version is to have our own header, {headerbit,body size} followed by body. in case of gpg backend we feed body to gpgme, let it figure things out. a better option is to have a (rudimentary?) parser for opengpg packets, and only accept a fixed subset of packet sequences, or specifically what you get when you encrypt a message with gpg. {pubkey enc packet}{encrypted data
☟︎ phf: packet}{compressed packet}{literal data packet}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.0005023 = 2.6622 BTC [-]
phf: i'm not sure what's to be done about DoS attacks though. body size caps? we have a handful of protections allowed by the carrier (only accepting messages from certain ips, etc), but ultimately can get a spoofed 4gb bundle and will not know that the data is spoofed until have the whole thing, and try and verify/decrypt it
ben_vulpes: i was under the impression that a first gossip packet was a signed nonce so that the implementation could drop all subsequent packets at its convenience.
phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9341 @ 0.00049861 = 4.6575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00049466 = 10.8825 BTC [-]
jurov: if the nonce is bad, it's ok to just ignore all packets from the address(with timeout)
jurov: until there's DoS that spoofs the address, i know.. but that bar is much higher
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00049466 = 6.7768 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: jurov: phf's point though is that then you're relying on state /outside/ of gossipd to run gossipd. if i understand correctly.
jurov: well, the fact that packets have source and destination address is not avoidable
jurov: my proposition is that if packets signed by key in WoT come from an address, it's unlikely DoS will come from there too.
☟︎☟︎ mod6: good scrollback today
ben_vulpes: won't you end up in a situation a la bitcoin where the ip is encoded into the message itself?
mod6: i need to quit shitshoveling and just dive down these manholes everyday instaed.
danielpbarron: from the yoga cancelled thing >> Ms. Scharf offered to rebrand the class as "mindful stretching," but student leaders did not think that was enough.
mod6: we've got a lot of work in front of us for '16.
☟︎ jurov: ben_vulpes: why? and bitcoin sends 0.0.0.0 or localhost as "own address" anyway
mod6: so I'd like to get v054 done by the end of the year.
mod6: then get these tasks written up and broken down if possible as a road map for '16.
mod6: maybe we can take these things, quarter at a time.
mod6: depends on what makes sense. i'll need all the help I can get. either we put in the work that needs doing and you have a republic, or you don't.
☟︎ jurov: well, if you want the fixed mempool in 054, gotta start now. it's not possible without rewrite.
mod6: I'm thinking that we cap further changes on v054.
mod6: Perhaps these additional major changes will go in one release at a time. And, we've been here before, but I'd like to keep the changes per release down to something manageable.
mod6: I'll try my best to steer us there.
mod6: Not a lot really remains left for v054. I'm in the process of getting all of the 3rd party deps, listed and then will sign and find a place for them on the website. Then I need to update my build script so it pulls and verifies all of that stuff from our own host. Beyond that, I just need to publish the v054-RELEASE patch I've been sitting on. Then Mr. Vulpes & I will need to sign all the vpatches and post 'em to the mailing list.
mod6: This is a clean break point to start working on the rest of these large pieces such as the mempool.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6832 @ 0.00049973 = 3.4142 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3399 @ 0.00050643 = 1.7214 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5241 @ 0.00050643 = 2.6542 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 20:29:36; phf: so gossip should be able to accept variable size packets, a naive version is to have our own header, {headerbit,body size} followed by body. in case of gpg backend we feed body to gpgme, let it figure things out. a better option is to have a (rudimentary?) parser for opengpg packets, and only accept a fixed subset of packet sequences, or specifically what you get when you encrypt a message with gpg. {pubkey enc
ascii_field: and imho it is absolutely impermissible to have any plaintext invariant fields
ascii_field: gotta know the pubkey of your recipient, from first packet up
ascii_field: and the conversation, from first packet onwards, must be indistinguishable from rng garbage to the enemy.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 20:42:43; phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent
ascii_field: and enemy can do useful traffic analysis on top of that.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:02:41; jurov: my proposition is that if packets signed by key in WoT come from an address, it's unlikely DoS will come from there too.
ascii_field: having any supposed source or destination.
ascii_field: at no point must a gossip packet's apparent source ip be treated as meaningful.
jurov: well, then just better keel up and die
ascii_field: we can readily communicate over a hostile net, using scheme described earlier
ascii_field: and, if it comes to this, over some other net.
jurov: if $enemy reacts to packets without recognizable structure by ddosing
ascii_field: jurov: then we stego on a 'recognizable' structure
ascii_field: it is quite simple to ignore the apparent originating ip because we always know where a valid packet came from - based on which pubkey on your end is able to validate the sig.
ascii_field: and you know the packet is 'for you' because you were able to decrypt it with your privkey.
ascii_field: so there is never any possible confusion about source or destination.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> jurov: then we stego on a 'recognizable' structure << 1024 nudes encoding!
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gotta stay under the mtu. but otherwise yes.
ascii_field: '1. Books ghost written for a Fox news Op-ed figure, 2. Jingoistic tomes on the defeat of the evil Nazi empire by “the greatest generation” of Americans, revealing as yet unfathomed Nazi evils and under-appreciated American heroics. [WWII is no longer, apparently recognized as having had a Russian or Japanese component, and the Third Reich is represented as an engine of global extermination that was
ascii_field: not going to rest until every non-German human had been wiped from the face of the Earth.] The leftist rewriting of this conflict seems as kooky as the bizarre neo-Nazi revisions I read in my youth, but is more troubling, because, where the right wing kooks who wanted to paint humanity’s largest killing with a bizarrely fantastical brush of Germanic innocence were rightly ignored, the lefties are finding thei
☟︎ ascii_field: r way onto the mainstream book list. 3. Neo-conservative books promoting the U.S. as the world’s SWAT team.' << aha
ascii_field: i have personally met folks who grew up on this 'history'
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 18:44:19; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-05-2015#1143203 << lettuce re-introduce this into the record. One Robert J. Hansen goes to california to help some derp make drm for the palm pilot ; gets scammed and ass raped. while this is exactly what he deserves, the story of his suffering is nevertheless instructive.
trinque: Some states initially refused to comply, fearing that the feds would make a national database of citizens. << lulzy
jurov: not for domestic travel afaik
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.00050695 = 2.6661 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes doesn't see the point on domestic travel
ben_vulpes: not until they install checkpoints anyways, and that'll cost far more than they really can spend.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: or they'll do it anyways and print to cover the loss.
BingoBoingo: jurov: Care to qntra a piece or are your shiva hands full too?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3795 @ 0.00049935 = 1.895 BTC [-]
jurov: about the passports?
BingoBoingo: Ah, yes about the passports. If your hands are full no worries.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00049935 = 3.5204 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13296 @ 0.00049935 = 6.6394 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14296 @ 0.00049519 = 7.0792 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00049466 = 2.869 BTC [-]