⏐︎ 20417
phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform ☟︎
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_modem
ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217135 << no makefile??! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern
trinque: if it was that, sounds pretty reasonable to me
trinque: I think he's just trying to limit the scope of what constitutes a foundation release
trinque: but I'll let the man speak for himself
trinque: I can see how the thing tends towards "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" otherwise
trinque: phf: why's that in your opinion?
trinque: I'm about ready to give linux the permaboot
trinque: though I suppose in terms of hardware support (pogo, so on) it does better.
trinque: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/06/one_million_new_lines_of_code_hit_linux_kernel/ << this shit makes me so damned uncomfortable
assbot: ONE MILLION new lines of code hit Linux Kernel • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuwCe2 )
BingoBoingo: linux per se doesn't seem to be the problem so much as linus, as traditionally implemented is
mod6: <+trinque> asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern << exactly this. Makefile stays ofc.
trinque: mod6: right-o
shinohai: If anyone gets rotor to successfully build on the pogo, please, by all means contact me.
trinque: shinohai: are you trying to compile for the pogo, or *on* the pogo?
trinque: because the latter results in oomkill iirc
trinque: I tried it for the hell of it a while back
trinque: on a debian pogo
shinohai: trinque: *for* the pogo. *on* the pogo is just dumb.
shinohai: Boost alone takes like 10 hours to build.
trinque: haha just checking
trinque: alright so I'm seeing something
trinque: mod6: maybe you guys need a build/test crew. ☟︎
trinque: so you can stop fucking worrying about it
trinque: that I could probably help with.
shinohai: Hell, I even got it to build on Ubuntu, the dumbest of Linux systems I know of.
trinque: my C++ is middling to poor, but I can bash it up all day
shinohai: Me too :/
shinohai: Except my C++ is poor, no question about it.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: good afternoon
ag3nt_zer0: hey trinque same to you... how's life?
trinque: s'alright, hacking and drinking beer at a local pub. yourself?
ag3nt_zer0: sounds great
ag3nt_zer0: s'ok man... i started a countdown that clicks away until I plan to embark on a two year backpack around the world
phf: trinque: linux seems to support everything and with some effort you could strip it down somewhat. i think linux also has a policy of never breaking abi, so if you're into static compilation, like ascii said sometime ago "if stator binary breaks on your other linux something's very very wrong"
ag3nt_zer0: which means it hasnt been that great haha but I am looking forward to getting the fuck out of here so there is a light on the horizon
ag3nt_zer0: 10 months, 18 days
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds like the ussa bureaucracy has been rough, yeah
trinque: I'd like to do the backpack thing at some point too
trinque: phf: yeah, I can see that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89446 @ 0.00052197 = 46.6881 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: exactly... not to mention the twatbrains that constitute the majority of my contemporaries
ag3nt_zer0: this room seems to be the only place wherein any type of free discussion takes place... not stultified by PC and other too-intense sentimentalisms
trinque: cheers to that.
ag3nt_zer0: what kind of beer you sipping?
trinque: garbage, rainier
ag3nt_zer0: hehe
ag3nt_zer0: aht part of the states you in trinque?
ag3nt_zer0: what
trinque: I hail from portland, or
ag3nt_zer0: oh, nice
trinque: formerly austin tx
trinque: yourself?
ag3nt_zer0: oh austin... both places are on my list as possibilities to reside if I make it back from my trip
ag3nt_zer0: currently in silly valley
trinque: austin's a great place imo
trinque: portland's ok if you can ignore or enjoy abusing the communists
ag3nt_zer0: yeah it seems very nice
trinque: (I am the latter)
trinque: excellent business culture in tx
trinque: they worship capitalism
ag3nt_zer0: I hear that people actually have the strnegth to acknowledge eachothers presence if, you know, colliding on the street
trinque: oh, I've lamented the lack of eye contact on the street in Portland in the hallowed logs
trinque: can't stand that shit
trinque: it's cowardly
ag3nt_zer0: yes it certainly fucking is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.0005256 = 45.1753 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: I noticed a huge spike in this shit post 911/patriot act fear + smartphone... seems these events combined to cinch the asshole up to inpenetrable proportion
ag3nt_zer0: maybe it was the drugs, but I remember the 90s being quite different
qntBot: http://qntra.net/2015/07/kentucky-man-defends-home-from-drone-faces-charges/ ☟︎
assbot: Kentucky Man Defends Home From Drone, Faces Charges | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Muzms1 )
trinque: when the fuck did america side with the pussies
trinque engages alcohol-induced candor
ag3nt_zer0: haha
trinque: maybe I'm naive, but I'm certain this was not always the case
trinque: and I know the answer to my own question but... damn.
trinque: we had a short run.
trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever. ☟︎
punkman: BingoBoingo: " to have been photographic "
ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland... ☟︎
BingoBoingo: fixed
BingoBoingo: ty trinque
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I have a half-baked theory that america was merely running on the fumes of the hierarchical beliefs of people that immigrated here
trinque: which dissolved, absent the political structures which conditioned them that way elsewhere
ag3nt_zer0: speaking of texas and guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CDFxeB7Y-s
assbot: I Can't Believe They Let You Do That! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuAtba )
trinque: I'll check it out when I leave
williamdunne: trinque: Already done
williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Whats scoop doin?
trinque: williamdunne: cool
williamdunne: Oh, scoop is disconnected from IRC but not the internet. I'll look into it
williamdunne: Ah I know what it will have been
williamdunne: Very unique issue
williamdunne: I'll fix it in a mo
trinque: every irc bot is such a turd
trinque: guy that wrote tenyks told me I hate trannies, fucking cunt
trinque: I'm gonna eventually write one that works in CL
punkman: lolwut
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: my old neighbor here in scam jose just bought a huge spread in merlin, OR... she showed me some pics it looks so nice...
trinque: punkman: I said to him that the guy who was run out of some ruby project for being catholic was wronged.
trinque: and he went total SJW on me
trinque: unimpressed, and he wrote the bot I based deedbot- on
trinque: I loathe these people.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: it's a truly beautiful state, but the people here are red-blooded communists
trinque: I'm thinking of heading a bit north to WA
ag3nt_zer0: yeah the whole left coast
trinque: at least WA has a bit more get-up-and-go
ag3nt_zer0: yeah beenlookinf there too.. and montana, and alaska
trinque: hell we should probably all go swing our highly competent dicks in Buenos Aires at some point.
ag3nt_zer0: sounds like great fun
trinque: sounds like they barely know what they want politically
trinque departs the bar
trinque: bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00051324 = 13.4982 BTC [-]
ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217253 << Not to mention the livelihood/employment problems or the international travel restrictions and all the other non-legal consequences doled out to this man by this vastly increasing type of abuse of power ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:53:20; qntBot: http://qntra.net/2015/07/kentucky-man-defends-home-from-drone-faces-charges/
ag3nt_zer0: re: felonies
trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it? ☟︎
trinque: got it.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217106 << which one is this yelp again ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:35:04; pete_dushenski: yelp market cap now 1.87 bn and is down 70% this year. wd sv !
punkman: mircea_popescu: yellow pages thingie
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: myeah, prime target for revolutionizing, they used to be big data in the 70s
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217134 << o.O ?! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:57:10; mod6: The Foundation isn't going to ship these builds scripts any more. We're just going to ship source code for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: doesn't sound like too bright an idea.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, sourceforge did go away.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:05:49; mod6: Trying to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone to use to build this thing is not going to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else? That's a game that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us to go that direction.
mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able to pursue pure goals now, but the cost is any conceivable relevancy. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: in any case in the triangle "monthly releases" "mod6 does all teh work" "bitcoind is usable" i'm not going to pick the first two for fucks sake.
mircea_popescu: what sort of priorities be these.
mircea_popescu: "In just five years, Uber has accumulated enough rideshare industry milestones to make your head spin. The total distance traveled by all Uber drivers would take you to Planet Saturn — and back. "
BingoBoingo taking time to nuke ophanages from 0.7.2 ish Bastard block annihilator pretty much works as ascii offered it.
mircea_popescu: blergh, fucktarded sales copy, i guess i'm the dumbass for not noticing it's washitpo again
mircea_popescu: ahahaha ads in windows 10 ? win.
mircea_popescu: "cortana" the resurgent paperclip ? bwahaha
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217178 << lolk. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:58:57; hanbot: trinque my sha512sum was of old, stale item. refreshed, matches, tyvm.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217180 << what reason would that be ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:02:16; phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217206 << from what i'm seeing this is actually slowly emerging. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:37:59; trinque: mod6: maybe you guys need a build/test crew.
mircea_popescu: "early experiments show that statically linked binaries are usually smaller than their dynamically linked glibc counterparts!!!"
mircea_popescu: god help foss srsly.
mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: some fucktard who "recknons" and so on.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217261< word ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:56:55; trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.00051311 = 29.5551 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36106 @ 0.00052234 = 18.8596 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217263 << that's actually remarkably apt, mcsoccermomland. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:57:24; ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem. too much convenience, and allowing women the illusion that anyone asked them for any input in the big question of whether their offspring survives or not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5644 @ 0.00052234 = 2.9481 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:24:23; trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it?
mircea_popescu: or somethinglikethat.
trinque: no kidding. the resistance to intelligence is palpable.
decimation: usg claims *all* airspace on its lands, starting at 0 feet
decimation: just like usg claims all your ideas: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
decimation: ^ how could the constition give you your ideas if usg didn't own them first?
hanbot: doesn't seem to claim any ownership
decimation: it's an implict claim
trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned. ☟︎
hanbot: and also beer.
trinque: yeah beer too
trinque: because they don't own the concept if that's what they claim they're doing
trinque: it implies massive domination of *action*
hanbot: i suppose this works ok up until one morning you wake up to find we've all changed nicks to trinque and there's just no way to make any sort of further sense of b-a
trinque: I dun geddit, yet lol
hanbot: at the very least classes must own their names.
trinque: I will revise to: no one can prevent me from making use of a concept; they live in the mind
trinque: I'm responding to decimation re: IP
hanbot: for as long as they stay there i doubt anyone cares.
trinque: to the extent that someone thinks they own a concept, I may lie and let him think so
trinque: yet I will use the concept any way that benefits me
hanbot: well the way it usually works is that if you try to make the movie / tshirt / book of the concept you end up losing whatever profits.
trinque: sure, and those are actions, and someone may or may not use their power to foil you
trinque: but you can't own a fucking concept
trinque: those are arrangements of language
hanbot: you're fighting a strawman, really. might as well claim "nobody could truly own a cow". they just take the milk is all.
hanbot: "beneficial ownership"
BingoBoingo: So transaction orphanage not as clean to cut out of 0.7.2 but done. Bitcoin running. Now to see if it catches up.
trinque: I'm speaking about the cultural vulgarity of "I own that idea"
trinque: if you disagree, so be it
trinque: controlling an idea requires an immensely more repressed society than I would prefer to live in
trinque: I only live that my thoughts may be less encumbered by morons by the day
hanbot: obviously the whole ip thing needs you not to own your bank account to work. places where that's not available develop a knockoff culture and get pretty loud. see south east asia.
hanbot: the choices you get are the choices you get. the choices you wish to make are something else.
mod6: mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be just fine if we don't ship a "stator.sh" or an "auto.sh" in the source and simply just maintain a cookbook and preferred steps like I was saying here: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217135 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
mod6: ?
decimation: the US used to have a knockoff culture for its first hundred years or so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66700 @ 0.00051302 = 34.2184 BTC [-]
decimation: british machines were brought to the us to undercut english goods
mircea_popescu: mod6 actually... the ideal is something like http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora
assbot: Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYPP8N )
mod6: exactly what I'm referring to.
mircea_popescu: not merely just an auto.sh, but step by step instructions to a level of detail never seen in open source.
mod6: you brought that up the otherday, agree 100%
mircea_popescu: more's the point here, i get the impression you're chaffing under too much workload.
mircea_popescu: !up mitzip
mod6: we need something that people can utilize to make it work. i totally agree with that. and scripts and other widgets to make it work could even be a separate bundle.
mod6: well, i've been pushin pretty hard as far as work load -- what scares me is taking on buildroot and trying to bundle/test the entire thing.
mircea_popescu: ok but listen, deep breath time.
mod6: and besides, we haven't exactly had great luck with our own build scripts to date.
mircea_popescu: useful work is useful work. taking responsibility for the whole world is a different story.
mircea_popescu: why mix the two.
trinque: mod6: I've already been testing some of your stuff; if nobody else wants to manage the build script, I'm fine with it
mircea_popescu: sure, not to date. but we're not going by the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for the next decade we'll be here trying it in 2026. ☟︎
trinque: offer's open
trinque: I've got a 4u collecting dust, etc etc
trinque: ben_vulpes has also put some work into his own script, so maybe he wants to handle it
mod6: trinque: he and i discussed this breifly. and I won't speak for him here. but i wouldn't have said what I said earlier without at least a discussion about that.
mod6: i think he's as tired of our build script problems as I am.
mod6: which is why he said he wrote that in the first place.
mod6: but mircea_popescu makes sense.
trinque: yeah, I mean the thing needs a derpinstaller
trinque: there aren't enough smart people in the world
trinque: even among the smart people... :p
mircea_popescu: mod6 just don't go to this dark place where "omg it's the 29th and i must have a working final version of bitcoind to announce
mircea_popescu: "
mircea_popescu: you don't belong there, and moreover that's just not our company style.
mod6: oh no. i wasn't planning on that at all this month anyway.
mod6: not even for a few months -- even before rotor came out.
mod6: the idea was; put out this test bundle and see if we're on the right track and if anyone hits any problems with any of the patches.
mircea_popescu: that said, obviously the effort to make anything work on the stack of shit we inherited from our retarded ancestors is nothing short of immense. but, chipping away at it is going to deliver, and confronting it is definitely going to show us a few useful things.
mircea_popescu: mod6 so far 90%+ of the problems have been with installation, from what i've seen
mod6: yeah totally agree. and i can't help but wonder if it's simply because of things that each persons different host has not installed by default. but it's hard to account for all of that.
mod6: hard, not impossible.
mircea_popescu: yeah. still, it's valuable to try, because if you help people they'll help you.
mircea_popescu: later on.
mircea_popescu: otherwise struggling with installers etc is a horrid trudge, but it is also an investment in human capital.
mod6: so i guess there is still a bit of a fork in the road; even if we do all of the hard work of ensuring peoples host dependantcies are installed before any compiling is even attempted, do we even want that to be a thing, as stan said, this is now obsolete. And do we now maintain a lot of other things for buildroot?
mircea_popescu: we will have to at the very least maintain packages we want to use, in the basic sense of, archival for download.
mircea_popescu: this sounds patently insane, i agree, but i just recently discovered in unrelated proejct that it's unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: sourceforge goes down, there goes youre entire project, seriously ?
mircea_popescu: can't even afford this for eulora, let alone for bitcoin.
mod6: yeah I saw that about the eulora thing.
mircea_popescu: and do not buy into the illusion that it was an isolated incident.
mircea_popescu: it could happenb to sf, it can and definitely will happen to github etc.
mod6: so should we still create scripts for people to build without buildroot (i.e. stator.sh/auto.sh) and then host packages for the ability to construct a buildroot with a drop-in of the foundation source?
punkman: I'm willing to contribute Ansible scripts to deploy/build/debug instances of bitcoind via ssh to different machines. for automating some of the testing workload.
decimation: http://www.wsj.com/article_email/github-raises-250-million-at-2-billion-valuation-1438206722-lMyQjAxMTA1NjI1OTEyNzk0Wj
assbot: GitHub Raises $250 Million at $2 Billion Valuation - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYQ5Vh )
trinque: punkman: yeah, I was thinking my 4u could be a build/test box
trinque: after all, that's apparently what it did for the kernel devs, haha
mircea_popescu: mod6 i'm not entirely sure how the specifics should work out. bit of an open question atm
mircea_popescu: but i'm pretty sure can't simply abandon the entire userland question, it'd be a major strategic mistake.
mod6: i agree. i'm just being careful not to create more work for myself/others than necessary.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate that.
mircea_popescu: decimation that's what makes it suspicious. 20mn slashdot, 2bn github. because... reasons.
mod6: ok well.... thanks for setting me straight.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should prolly take a bit of time away from the hands on work you love and do some management stuff.
mircea_popescu: at the very least draw a schema of what and how needs done so people's offers to help can be plugged in
punkman: trinque, sure set it up with your choice of OS and I'll write one for you
trinque: punkman: bitchin'
decimation: well, it's all theoretical valuation
trinque: it already has a basic gentoo install
decimation: nobody has offered to buy the thing for $2b as far as I know
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok sure. can do.
mircea_popescu: decimation you kiddin' me, it could buy out all the russia!
mircea_popescu: o wait, wrong one huh. nm.
decimation: https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baac06fa7175677a4a1bf65860a84708d67 lul
assbot: https://imgur.com/QC51FZz · nixxquality/WebMConverter@c1ac0ba · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYQebn )
decimation: apparently github has turned into fark
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73335 @ 0.00051302 = 37.6223 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no but just for my curiosity, what's github to do with a quarter bil ?
mircea_popescu: buy each employee ten dumptrucks full of pens ?
decimation: buy sourceforge and scam?
decimation: I donno
decimation: it's kinda the same question as "what's apple gonna do with $60b"
decimation: one guess: hire a full-time staff of indians to vigilantly search committed code for perceived slights
trinque: god knows why, america is drunk on QE
decimation: maybe they can get into the space business too
decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales" ☟︎
decimation: I'm sure the homos at apple support utf8, but apparently it doesn't work with whatever buildroot wants
decimation: !up julmac
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17436 @ 0.00053317 = 9.2964 BTC [+]
decimation: lol the problem was that buildroot was grepping 'locale -a' for utf8, while apple uses 'utf-8'
trinque: http://xtnodes.com/ << even their bullshit graph is on the descent
assbot: XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1U879cH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.000535 = 12.519 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: trinque you don't understand how "consensus" works
trinque: they're building it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50916 @ 0.00052796 = 26.8816 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: the funny thing will be that this schmuck will still be going around pretending like he actually exists and so forth even after this idiocy goes the way of neobee and "bitcoin security experts group"
mircea_popescu: just like phantomcircuit still goes around, an aethero waiting to happen.
mircea_popescu: somewhat related, chain jiggling. http://33.media.tumblr.com/d4a5a524277a7efa25c66c7760493d89/tumblr_mumme8jB3v1szhqszo1_500.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1U87BaM )
mircea_popescu: decimation check it out, they need a metalocale. hopefully implemented as multibyte too!
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=3 (randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542#105DED03AF97CA6EDB6C41B47B7947A3B987A055C2756723E9C5671609CADB38>
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
mircea_popescu: p=3. hm.
decimation: heh yeah. apple makes up standards as they go
mircea_popescu: (ftr, intrigeri is something crazy with the bug reports, may be all-internet record holder)
mircea_popescu: yup, that's the only time so far 3 appears alone as a factor.
decimation: interesting
decimation: seems like someone trolling maybe?
decimation: sigh a few more moles whacked and now this (on osx): xattr-at.c:36:20: error: too few arguments to function 'setxattr'
decimation: seems as though linux and osx and bsd use different 'attr' functions
decimation: on the other hand, surely 'tar' builds on osx. perhaps another night
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217312 << very much, this ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:10; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217314 << bitcoin is - necessarily an operating system. sad but true. you lot ought to be thankful that it is not just as necessarily a ~device~. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:49; mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able to pursue pure goals now, but the cost is any conceivable relevancy.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217330 << we vivisected drepper here on several occasions. he is ~the~ most accomplished publicly-known gavin thus far. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:50:12; mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
asciilifeform: responsible, iirc, for ~all~ of the known bash exploits
asciilifeform: and the 'locales' bullshit
asciilifeform: and libnss, etc
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217395 << if i have to ship a bootable linux iso, buildrooted for the purpose of building a) self b) bitcoin - i will. in fact, yes, i have this up my sleeve, BUT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO USE IT instead of retarduntu etc ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 02:34:07; mircea_popescu: sure, not to date. but we're not going by the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for the next decade we'll be here trying it in 2026.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217462 << pretty sure i disabled locales... ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 03:02:01; decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales"
asciilifeform: and fuck crapple
asciilifeform: it can burn in hell.
asciilifeform: ferfuckssake, WHY do folks persist in trying to develop on retarded osen ?
asciilifeform: why, why ???
asciilifeform: it takes what, ten minutes to install 'centos 6.5' ?
asciilifeform: which is not sexy, not gentooitic, no, but behaves ~reasonably~
decimation: heh I hear you man
decimation: but I have old crapple laptops that I would like to use
decimation: without losing laptop features like sleep
asciilifeform: go, use.
decimation: well, use as bitcoind hosts
asciilifeform: i won't presume to tell other people to use, or not use.
decimation: macports does a pretty good job of porting standard gnu chain to apple
decimation: but they have thier own binary format, etc
asciilifeform: but ~i personally~ will from now on support ~only~ rotor. and soon after, only rotolinux (buildroot for arbitrary arch that includes therealbitcoin and its deps, and toolchain to reconstruct self and the latter.) ☟︎
decimation: it's a reasonable line
asciilifeform: i will not support vms on vax.
asciilifeform: i will not support soviet pdp-11.
asciilifeform: i will not support mactardation.
asciilifeform: who wants - can.
decimation: in theory it could build
decimation: in practice - hell
asciilifeform: ars longa, vita brevis (tm) (r)
decimation: although I wonder if it will work on any bsd
decimation: probably not
asciilifeform: somebody (mod6?) had it on openbsd
mod6: ya, mine's sync'ing now.
decimation: somehow this xattr stuff must be magicked away
decimation: mod6: you got rotor to build?
mod6: it's going slow, but -verifyall and to usbdrive
mod6: oh, no. stator.
decimation: yeah
mod6: + other patches
asciilifeform: i will repeat that rotor binary ~is expected to work on all linux from 2.6+~
decimation: I did that a long time ago
asciilifeform: because static.
asciilifeform: and uses nothing whatsoever but the kernel abi!
mod6: i'll have to take another crack at rotor after month end.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah but mac uses mach-o
decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach-O
assbot: Mach-O - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1H4BNdJ )
decimation: some bsd supports linux binaries I think
asciilifeform: who wants - please, do, port to mac, vax, silicongraphics, cray.
asciilifeform: but - i will not. i have other work!
decimation wishes I had an old mips sun box
asciilifeform: sun never, afaik, sold a mips
decimation: I thought sparc was derived from mips
mod6: on fbsd there is a linuxcompat kernmod -- but it has issues if you make too many i386 syscalls in your linux code. *shrug*
asciilifeform: genealogically common ancestor, iirc.
asciilifeform: but not derived
decimation: ah I see
mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw. ☟︎
asciilifeform: draft name
decimation: redhat 6 is actually a pretty reasonable os, once you kill the poetteringisms
asciilifeform: it doesn't even deserve a name
asciilifeform: decimation: not decent at all. but ~works~ for this example
asciilifeform: (decent starts
asciilifeform: , at minimum,
asciilifeform: with being able to rebuild 100% of self, from included src
asciilifeform: without downloading anything
decimation: it can do that
decimation: but only if you download
decimation: and there's no bootstrap scripts as far as I know
decimation: redhat still ships with source dvd, if you download and burn the isos
asciilifeform: fuck that
asciilifeform: everything in one iso.
decimation: heh it's like 9 gigs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00052581 = 19.8756 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src ☟︎
asciilifeform: period.
decimation: true. someone build centos though, so it must be possible
decimation: obvious unsupported by distro though
asciilifeform: i am also considering bellard's 'tcc' ( http://bellard.org/tcc )
asciilifeform: which can build kernel at boot time (!)
asciilifeform: and, perhaps, other things
asciilifeform: so, at the risk of repeating myself, i gotta agree with mircea_popescu here and respectfully disagree with mod6
asciilifeform: this thing will go nowhere if we declare the gnarliest problem (build) a non-problem
asciilifeform: must have a guaranteed, canonical build
asciilifeform: yes, even if this means we end up maintaining a kernel.
decimation: and the argument for linux?
asciilifeform: and a gcc fork.
decimation: has the widest hardware support?
asciilifeform: we don't need most of it
asciilifeform: (the hardware)
decimation: aye
asciilifeform: so long as we have a cpu, a nic, and a block device, we're golden on the given set
asciilifeform: there are not so many cpu, nic, or block devices in circulation today.
asciilifeform: i have considered, for instance, a move to 'minix'
asciilifeform: shortest kernel that bitcoin could sit down on is probably some variant of minix
decimation: heh I didn't realize it still existed
decimation: It would be interesting to see what weird stuff like 'green hills os' looks like
BingoBoingo: I'm looking forward to March of 2017 where at this rate Bitcoin successfully becomes a device.
asciilifeform: decimation: probably something like qnx
asciilifeform: but i will never know
decimation: there's a long way from minix to hardware
asciilifeform: because it is a commercial platinum toilet
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, I know
asciilifeform: decimation: as i said, not so much hardware to support
decimation: it would be interesting to see what golden toilet prices buys in terms of os
decimation: yeah it's not the hardware, it's the logic
decimation: I was meaning 'compile to vhdl'
asciilifeform: decimation: the classical bitcoind, unfortunately, ~does~ require threading - and thus, a slice scheduler
decimation: indeed.
asciilifeform: also needs support for large (modern) block devices
asciilifeform: of several common bus variants
BingoBoingo: <decimation> It would be interesting to see what weird stuff like 'green hills os' looks like << Probably just like 64-bit DOS
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mno
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is rather more like 'qnx' or 'vxworks'
asciilifeform: small and vaguely unixlike animal
BingoBoingo: ah
decimation: but supposedly is 'proven secure'
decimation: probably with a giant pile of asterisks describing assumptions
asciilifeform: decimation: it isn't an ada or otherwise proofy system
asciilifeform: but rather something more like 'iso cert'
decimation: redhat 6, for instance, achieves 'eal level 4'
decimation: but you need to have the most minimal, stripped down version possible to meet
asciilifeform: where there was a massive pile of usg paperwork, killing - literally - a forest
decimation: yep
asciilifeform: documenting ~parliamentary procedure~ of its making
decimation: "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
decimation: That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
decimation: And then is heard no more: it is a tale
decimation: Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
decimation: Signifying nothing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105531 @ 0.00053625 = 56.591 BTC [+] {6}
decimation: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/6.2_Release_Notes/security.html
assbot: Chapter 11. Security, Standards and Certification ... ( http://bit.ly/1H4DOGL )
asciilifeform: i can't bring myself to even try to read this.
decimation: don't bother
decimation: the summary is that you gotta go through about 50 pages of 'rotor build instructions' to even start to reach the 'eal4' state
asciilifeform: why would i give half a fuck about usg ceremonies
asciilifeform: let the archaeologists concern themselves with them
asciilifeform: in 2000 years.
decimation: the irony being that it only applies to rhel 6.2, full of well known holes
asciilifeform: thoroughly, stultifyingly unsurprising
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu didja ever get your magic bitcoind synced again /
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform wiped out, off to bed
decimation: the stator I built a month ago is almost to 335k
decimation: err, kicked off
BingoBoingo: !up mitzip
lobbes: ;;later tell asciilifeform Did some research and looks like I'm going to have to actually edit the plugin for supybot RSS in order to get lobbesbot to store history. I know SQL, but not python. In other words, I gotta teach myself how to make it insert into a table, and check it before spitting out RSS feeds. I'll keep you posted. But for now, I sleep.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: mod6: https://community.oracle.com/thread/2322618?tstart=0 << here's somebody bitching about the rotor db build error we saw... on solaris
assbot: Problem installing Berkeley DB 5.2.36 on Solari... | Oracle Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1IMtiv8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63346 @ 0.00053991 = 34.2011 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 266150 @ 0.0005263 = 140.0747 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164050 @ 0.00051818 = 85.0074 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 328850 @ 0.00054849 = 180.3709 BTC [+] {9}
trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb ☟︎
trinque: happily munching block atm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118473 @ 0.00051449 = 60.9532 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22145 @ 0.00050697 = 11.2269 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: boost also barfs about a number of targets, none of which seem to have mattered.
trinque: 128k
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32100 @ 0.00054962 = 17.6428 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74700 @ 0.00050643 = 37.8303 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54850 @ 0.00051137 = 28.0486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00052409 = 36.3194 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57947 @ 0.00052821 = 30.6082 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up lobbes
shinohai: gm BingoBoingo, you the only bloke awake at this hour?
BingoBoingo: Maybe?
BingoBoingo: Working on a qntra piece
shinohai: Great, I need something good to read. All I have read is utter shit this week.
BingoBoingo: Dunno if it will be a long one yet. Just been a kinda quiet week Bitcoin news wise
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22862 @ 0.00052531 = 12.0096 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 288.0, vol: 9735.82879160 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 283.8, vol: 4578.06517 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 287.99, vol: 12727.2270398 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 297.5, vol: 3.37005857 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 285.5657, vol: 13235.33640000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 289.235, vol: 36.13133979 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 289.60386, vol: 46.73892814 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 286.725993855
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119693 @ 0.00051164 = 61.2397 BTC [-] {2}
scoopbot_revived: Cecil the Lion is a Pretext for Expanding Extraterritoriality of US Law http://qntra.net/2015/07/cecil-the-lion-is-a-pretext-for-expanding-extraterritoriality-of-us-law/ ☟︎
BingoBoingo: from wikipedo https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cecil_%28lion%29&oldid=673684813
assbot: Cecil (lion) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VORuk9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105221 @ 0.00051803 = 54.5076 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: Nice spin on that BingoBoingo. Team America, world police strikes again.
BingoBoingo: Or, they want to
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 269800 @ 0.00052232 = 140.9219 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
jurov: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 i had to check it isn't 1st april ☟︎☟︎
assbot: draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCwhrY )
BingoBoingo: This looks like a promising userland http://tools.suckless.org/9base
assbot: 9base | suckless.org tools ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCwmvO )
BingoBoingo: jurov: lols all around
punkman: "If UDP must be used, encapsulate it in IPsec [RFC4303] to avoid matching IP protocol 17 filters." ☟︎
punkman: mhmm
kakobrekla: http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-can-disable-sniper-rifleor-change-target/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KABrTI )
BingoBoingo: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20150728/429665/
assbot: Sharp Plans to Launch DC-powered Air Conditioner in 2015 - Nikkei Technology Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1KABPSh )
shinohai: "In the continuing quest to increase block size and reduce bandwidth issues, Gavin plans to integrate blockchain sync by carrier pigeon in the next release of BitcoinXT"
punkman: BingoBoingo: why's that interesting?
BingoBoingo: punkman: because Edison gets his revenge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 5250 @ 0.00111 = 5.8275 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129875 @ 0.00053085 = 68.9441 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94813 @ 0.0005335 = 50.5827 BTC [+] {3}
scoopbot_revived: So, what of the future ? http://trilema.com/2015/so-what-of-the-future/
BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79800 @ 0.00052563 = 41.9453 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16697 @ 0.00052463 = 8.7597 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58869 @ 0.00053464 = 31.4737 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: If I were a derpy redditor, I would tip mp for that article. One of my favorite yet.
jurov: oh, mp just sooo likes to imagine how actual humans will be separated from dumb beasts
jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity ☟︎☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62981 @ 0.00053637 = 33.7811 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50200 @ 0.00054961 = 27.5904 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81900 @ 0.00055297 = 45.2882 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00055542 = 28.4375 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: !up The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: howdy punkman
punkman: sweating it out down here
The20YearIRCloud: Why/where?
punkman: cause it's hot
punkman: in south greece
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217651 << congrats trinque ! another winner. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 06:32:42; trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb
shinohai: Same here punkman, was like 40 yesterday evening. :/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217682 << in the land of the demented clowns, it is ~always~ april the first. except, the chainsaw is real, and blade is sharp, and the pretty gurl really ~does~ get cut in half !! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:48:40; jurov: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 i had to check it isn't 1st april
punkman: heh
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217687 << ahahahahaha pleeeez use nsasec ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 11:00:08; punkman: "If UDP must be used, encapsulate it in IPsec [RFC4303] to avoid matching IP protocol 17 filters."
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu check it out, usg read the gossipd logs, and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217682 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:48:40; jurov: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 i had to check it isn't 1st april
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: obligatory: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=208 << where we are headed. ☟︎
assbot: Loper OS » “The Internet of the Future” ... ( http://bit.ly/1fKTNnm )
asciilifeform: the buggers ~really~ do not like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2015#996554 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 01:52:06; asciilifeform: mats: and given that authentication happens on receipt of first packet - with antireplay nonce - unscannable for (you can't tell if a machine is a brick, a live box refusing to relay ping, or a gossip-udp node)
shinohai: asciilifeform: have any good recommended reading for learning how to use buildroot ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: only the official manual
asciilifeform: shinohai: but you don't really need the manual unless you are doing something more clever than anything i've done so far
shinohai: Well, I know what I gotta do thisweekend.
shinohai: I had no problem installing, etc. per instructions. Now it is just using it to do actually build something.
shinohai: strike *do*
asciilifeform: 'In the case of WebRTC [I-D.draft-ietf-rtcweb-transports], TURN [RFC5766] should be used to concentrate and manage a known-good UDP flows.' <<< ahahaha, 'pleeez herd all yer packetz through usg middleman box'
asciilifeform: this is just precious.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217706 << how's that ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity
asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque please consider submitting patch to the ml !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Andreas Heimann ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C62FFD2679BE0909B2C7D7FB2356995AF9650D3E280600D31534FDB9A7F170A3#A325D14C8F2FC51D65A4157508CD1E626380D8E9F340A33F11BD25BF1936DCCF>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=3 (Joe Schmuckley; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/976AAB6D6B7F325843FF0E3653C219B9D6738C5F016F72973E311181614ECAF5#928C2E1186A73348A919DFD04535B989BDD9497C80AE2DC96788955BFB99ECC9>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=641 (Thomas Hofmann ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AD29DC660DB7496B01D608486E6062A27E35F35C32CFD3E2F35FC1409374187#5C36ECF7F72E7DF2F75AB382EDB5C4F3F55890F8AAC2E9A7BF79BCCCF7E24B07>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Thomas Hofmann ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9AD29DC660DB7496B01D608486E6062A27E35F35C32CFD3E2F35FC1409374187#E5D971BED516F3DAD920A90EF1FC17998F15DC52F179A95E45EA559544E77A4D>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Julia Reda ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B412BD191BF10DAB6AAB6A8779A3F08D31AC5E3FB748DDBFB1DB18CDF05B6BEF#6269187B70BE0F1B4094A0DCA78923F50E78C97F8B3999BAB3DE5974003B393F>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Sven Arnold ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC9D7BC1ADFF9D074C29DA18CB7224920FDAABD2348152DE296A6293FF3C1914#1A76F4EB3DC6C31C58912BB58D3C9DCDC00B82C9614792BADBFB0CE75DE943B3>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=12884901891 (PGP Corporation Update Signing Key; PGP Corporation Update Signing Key ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB#F79436B629322C70C523BAA5BE0D3D4DDA011578F84122B8CA3ABD15C52A9567>
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=3 (randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542#105DED03AF97CA6EDB6C41B47B7947A3B987A055C2756723E9C5671609CADB38>
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=459561500779 (Marco Hien ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A627338D751C449EA54C0BA518ABCB2E215D939534F7D149C246EA9EA0D36279#3410BF059FEC317A7C927FDFD2A73249AED3B85E3AB4C4DE47EF4A23A091D5CA>
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=12884901891 (Marco Hien ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A627338D751C449EA54C0BA518ABCB2E215D939534F7D149C246EA9EA0D36279#2A71D1921B057ACB9C5258F5C984DF1048D6D0C9FE3FB03696525545C8A0BF98>
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes it is probably best to unplug that thing until you fix it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: lobbesbot needs a lobotomy xD
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mnope.
mircea_popescu: re http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00#page-3 < i think it's a fabulous idea. udp belongs the same place finger, telnet and email belong. the scrapheap of a different world, one where undergrads did not have internet access.
assbot: draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCSyG0 )
mircea_popescu: once aol was allowed online, it necessarily followed no udp. i'm sick of having to deal with it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: single-packet auth is the only gossipd worth using.
mircea_popescu: i wish it were made a law that no isp may provide udp connectivity for a price under the minimum wage.
mircea_popescu: you can have single packet auth outside of udp.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: you realise UDP is essential for a number of services and that they wouldn't function using TCP, right?
asciilifeform: whether it is done with udp as such or raw ip (i.e. udp with protocol field set to 666) is immaterial
mircea_popescu: Azelphur fuck them all.
mircea_popescu: and no ntp either.
mircea_popescu: i don't care what you need. fuck you and your needs. the infrastructure can't support udp in the current configuration. you don't get udp for this reason.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: so fuck most VOIP services, Games, and anything else that requires low latency without packet delivery confirmation? XD
mircea_popescu: you want upd, make it illegal for retards to connect.
mircea_popescu: YES.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42370 @ 0.00054411 = 23.0539 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: the infrastructure can't support ~anything~ in its current configuration.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not germane, even though valid.
Azelphur: Also, if anything UDP is lighter on the infrastructure than TCP
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: not so.
mircea_popescu: it is only lighter if used by responsible users.
mircea_popescu: until you get those, it's just a ddos haven.
asciilifeform: irresponsible users are to be unplugged.
mircea_popescu: do that, then i'll change my mind.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the thing about raw ip is that it typically requires os support
mircea_popescu: hey, im not saying there's a good alternative.
asciilifeform: and, more direly, well-behaved routing
mircea_popescu: im just saying you don't own the moon, is all.
mircea_popescu: whether its made of cheese or not.
asciilifeform: (it is much easier to filter, and will be filtered by usg infrastructure.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu prefers to be ddosed with tcp ?
mircea_popescu: yes. much easier to filter.
asciilifeform: i will say it again, the push against udp is usg disinfo. and everyone who buys into it should retreat to the library with a copy of richard stevens and think very carefully.
asciilifeform: it is physically impossible to get any easier to filter than udp-with-signature
asciilifeform: because: no state.
mircea_popescu: no dude, your solution is right. want "internet" ? sure, 50 dollars a month gets you gawker, washitpo and crapple dot com.
mircea_popescu: they do not belong outside of the walled gardens, keep em there.
Azelphur: Surely in that example most of your business would never have existed?
asciilifeform: and i suppose i will write letters to mircea_popescu and spirit them out in the rectums of pig carcasses loaded onto the great sailing ships ?
mircea_popescu: Azelphur the part of my business that consists of redditards opining would never have existed. to my benefit.
Azelphur: (No access to outside websites -> no access to Bitcoin -> Bitcoin never takes off)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the absence of a solution is not an argument in favour of shitpiles.
mircea_popescu: Azelphur http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/
assbot: Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCTVVg )
mircea_popescu: if you imagine bitcoin took off because the muppets, you're inhabiting a very special place.
asciilifeform: routing tcp no-questions-asked while filtering packets that could be signature-authed without storing state is braindamaged.
Azelphur: heh
asciilifeform: note that i'm all for rejecting unsigned udp
asciilifeform: (presently all of it)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then we don't even disagree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the link concerned ~infrastructure~. usg is trying so that when i get my signed udp, and try to send it to mircea_popescu, it won't leave my street even.
asciilifeform: this is different from 'i recommend that mircea_popescu filter all unsigned udp at his door'
mircea_popescu: you are aware the usg can't maintain infrastructure anyway, and if you persist in staying there you will one day connect to b-a via satellite phones provided by, likely, fucking spain.
mircea_popescu: right ?
asciilifeform: alcatel is usg to me
asciilifeform: and so is every oceanic fiber.
mircea_popescu: usg is arguing that "olympics are bad mkay, not because we can't afford anything, but because <<<gentrification>>>".
mircea_popescu: if you think the dispute as to how internet won't be available in the future in the us comes down to what anyone wants, usg or not usg...
asciilifeform: that is one usg, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see this picture where it is absent in us but somehow present in patagonia
mircea_popescu: as the bear was getting ready to stomp the anthill, the anthill in question was very animated by the following political debate : some ants wanted to tear down one wall, while some other ants thought this is stupid.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, because you bought into the ridoinculous "us=world" nonsense.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, it'll fall into the ocean and nobody'll even notice.
asciilifeform: as far as the machines are concerned, this is actually true
mircea_popescu: i guess you get to see the wonder to believe the wonder then.
asciilifeform: recall thread with chinese si fabs running winblowz ?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: recall the thread with the sluts living there wearing "D&G" purses ?
asciilifeform: i dare to suggest that there is not a single transoceanic line or satellite in orbit that usg could not arbitrarily diddle, or remove entirely, at their pleasure.
mircea_popescu: and also beat up superman.
mircea_popescu: tu-tu-tuuuut!
mircea_popescu: looky here : "there's no blade of grass in the forest that the doe could not shit on, at its pleasure". perhaps. fact : grass will grow through where the antlers were, and not know the difference.
asciilifeform: ultimately - certain
mircea_popescu: not that far off, either.
asciilifeform: everybody gets 'ozymandiased' in the end.
mircea_popescu: all the diddling it's gonna do, it mostly did already.
asciilifeform: recall the thread re: the 120 mains voltage ?
mircea_popescu: they're just broadly speaking acultural and unseflwarare enough, unlike the romans, so they don't spend three centuries waxing poetic over this understood situation
mircea_popescu: because too thick to understand it.
asciilifeform: some kinds of damage - stick around, long after the antlers have grown with grass.
mircea_popescu: to me 120 v is nothing but a quaint curio.
mircea_popescu: like reddit.
asciilifeform: check again once copper costs what silver does.
asciilifeform: this is not a win.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, this happens with some regularity in history
mircea_popescu: might be what, the 12th time maybe
asciilifeform: the times prior to mains current don't count.
mircea_popescu: because why ?
asciilifeform: because copper was negotiable.
asciilifeform: but efficiency and cost of cable aside,
asciilifeform: 120v is no mere curio to the folks in the u.s. or post-u.s. world whose cities burn on account of pinched-cable-and-too-many-amps
asciilifeform: a daily occurrence
asciilifeform: which is precisely twice as probably on 120v as 240
asciilifeform: *probable
mircea_popescu: i'm sure all sorts of things are not daily curious to various troglodytes.
mircea_popescu: raped-for-being-white is, i hear, a fact of life for the losers of the 3rd boer war
mircea_popescu: still, a quaint curio for me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had 240 run to his flat ?
mircea_popescu: 220
asciilifeform: spiffy
mircea_popescu: oh, you mean for my brief stay there ?
asciilifeform: wherever living now
mircea_popescu: all the world is on 220 you know.
asciilifeform was warned that he might encounter both american and civilized voltage in ar
asciilifeform not certain whether this is actual problem there or not
mircea_popescu: i guess you could get 120 if you absolutely want it, via generators
asciilifeform: jp, notably, is a 120 land
asciilifeform: for reasons of conquest
mircea_popescu: so is american samoa. what of it.
asciilifeform: what of it, is that this 'gift keeps on giving' even after washington is buried in the sand.
mircea_popescu: i don't see it.
asciilifeform: like unix
mircea_popescu: just because some colonies have mental issues it does not follow anything except that some colonists need to extract head from ass.
asciilifeform: when extracting head from ass means 'you get to rebuild the things no one knows how to build now'
mircea_popescu: lmao check it out, liberia as well. that poor country.
lobbes: @rss announce list
lobbesbot: lobbes: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
lobbes: @rss remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
lobbesbot: lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, that's what it always means.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergo, for so long as anyone has the choice of '120v or hunt rats by candlelight', there will be 120v around
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: so - for martian, nothing of interest. for us earthlings who live in a world not entirely of our own creation - everything.
mircea_popescu: i imagine as long as "9 volt batteries or hunt rats by candlelight" is the choice, there's going to be a lot of "9 volt" systems out there too.
mircea_popescu: why's anyone's poverty, intellectual or otherwise, a criterion ?
asciilifeform: for same reason x86 is a criterion.
mircea_popescu: hardly.
asciilifeform: same deal incidentally
mircea_popescu: not in the slightest.
mircea_popescu: x86 makes sense. 120 volt is trivially abstracted away by two step transformers.
mircea_popescu: there's no alternative to x86 on the table.
asciilifeform: but they stick around for same reason
lobbes: @rss remove phuctor
lobbesbot: lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.
asciilifeform: (not everything is a dc power supply with arbitrary input !)
mircea_popescu: nah. one sticks around because it works. the other because it's the best alternative. you don't like either of them, it's true, but that fact does not alter the reality.
mircea_popescu: one's a champ, the other's a hanger on.
asciilifeform: x86 'works' is perhaps the ultimate illusion.
asciilifeform: 'supports winblowz and unix' is not 'works'
asciilifeform: it sticks around because 'market' is a braindead slave to its own past, like pregnant cow
mircea_popescu: perhaps. whatd you have it run ?
asciilifeform: just pointing out the incongruity of 'x86 is winner'
asciilifeform: the situation of 'drivers', for instance, is quite analogous to situation where every block of flats has own voltage, frequency, and mains socket shape that the landlord felt like drawing on a napkin.
mircea_popescu: dja see the difference between "hmm, i intuit in my urine that x86 sucks" and "lolut, 120v?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see a difference of degree only
mircea_popescu: there's no alternative in a "moore's law" shithole, for very good reasons.
mircea_popescu: now that that curse's dead and buried, we can actually design this shit.
mircea_popescu: there wasn't much in the way of sane transportation routes in the fronteer, either.
trinque: asciilifeform: I did a binary diff between your binary posted to the ML and mine using bsdiff; the result was about 60kb
asciilifeform: trinque: you will notice that gcc embeds turds
trinque: might be interesting to inspect it and see what's different
asciilifeform: trinque: i did this experiment, and found quite a few variations (machine version strings - srsly, wtf gcc ? an automated annihilator for these is a necessity) ; optimizations
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider how rapidly bitcoin mining ditched the cpu, and then the gpu, to get a feel of just how unstable this domination you perceive is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was no legacy lockin in bitcoin !
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: any idea why qntra snarfed my comment ? i tried posting again but i'm being told it's a "duplicate". somehow stuck in moderation ?
mircea_popescu: except computing.
mircea_popescu: and microsoft fucking visual studio.
asciilifeform: in mining in particular.
mircea_popescu: there's no lockin in computing generally.
mircea_popescu: just as soon as the economics make sense, your x86 nemesis is gone. two years, tops.
mircea_popescu: TOPS.
mircea_popescu: now make the economics work.
asciilifeform: arm == x86 for my purposes.
asciilifeform: out with old hardwaremicroshit, in with new, same.
asciilifeform: where is the boundschecking cpu ?
asciilifeform: nowhere.
asciilifeform: though it existed in 1976.
mircea_popescu: same place the usable docs for bitcoin are.
mircea_popescu: waiting.
lobbes: @rss announce remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded.
lobbes: there, no more spammy
mircea_popescu: could it just do the announcements once ?
lobbes: williamdunne: if your bot can store teh history, feel free to take over. If not, then first one there wins, I guess ;/
decimation: lol being against udp is like being against IP
lobbes: well, I'm using the default 'supybot' RSS plugin
lobbes: which, I guess doesn't store history
mircea_popescu: lobbes and it has no storage ? aha
lobbes: aye, I'ma have to edit teh python
mircea_popescu: so any idea what causes the replay ?
punkman: it has but no persistence
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: me restarting phuctor
lobbes: ^
asciilifeform: causes the replay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if i restart trilema, it doesn't pop them out again
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't any notion as to ~why~
mircea_popescu: does your restart fuck up the rss feed, such as by altering the dates it displays ?
asciilifeform: not on my end !
asciilifeform: i suspect that lobbesbot has an elementary bug where it allows rss feed to ratchet backwards
asciilifeform: i.e. loads a momentarily-down phuctor and says 'null set'
asciilifeform: then diffs from this null set when it comes back.
lobbes: I do notice the dates change on phuctor RSS
lobbes: when restart happens
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the rss feed is exactly identical pre and post restart. how would the bot know something changed then
lobbes: but bot should still be able to handle
asciilifeform: lobbes: i warned many times that the dates on phuctor are meaningless
lobbes nods
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't get to respecify rss eh
mircea_popescu: people use prepackaged software
asciilifeform: i did warn.
asciilifeform: there is no field in the db presently for 'time when phuctored'
asciilifeform: there is ONLY time-submitted.
asciilifeform: i explained this in agonizing detail. it is in the log.
mircea_popescu: ok, so could it be that the lobbesbot sees new dates decides new articles ?
decimation: the only sane way to track diffs would be to keep the entire history then
lobbes: yeah, I think that is the problem, which it should be able to handle
asciilifeform: decimation: simply storing the last 20 or so would do it
mircea_popescu: yeah this scheme doesn't lend itself to much rss ing
lobbes: it should use the url as a PK
asciilifeform: but even simpler fix,
asciilifeform: DO NOT EVER RATCHET BACK!
asciilifeform: it is RETARDED
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's "back" when you don't keep time yo.
lobbes agrees
asciilifeform: 'back' is 'item is in memory cache but now isn't there when i load, it must have un-happened'
decimation: which is why you need the entire state
mircea_popescu: yeah, srsly.
asciilifeform: lobbesbot ~does~ keep a cache,
asciilifeform: i know this because it is not spewing same thing every five minutes
mircea_popescu: lobbes can you discern if he has a point, does the cache get 0'd out if it looks at a zero feed ?
asciilifeform: the only way it could possibly work as it presently does is by storing ~some~ history
lobbes: hmm, that is true
asciilifeform: considering that ~every single phuctored key so far~ is dated june, or may even
asciilifeform: iirc
mircea_popescu: and speaking of udp : fucking dns definitely must go away. stupidest kludge o nthe whole internet.
asciilifeform: it is also the foremost usg organ
asciilifeform: of the direct, unabashed kind
decimation: yes, ascii's wot-signed udp would be the first application for ip-to-namespace
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
asciilifeform: what i'd really like to see is what mircea_popescu proposes i use for single-packet auth that 1) isn't udp 2) existing net will reliably route 3) existing os will agree to emit without any new code running as root
asciilifeform: and 4) isn't readily and easily flagged and filtered as 't3rr0r1st net' by 90% of world's isp
decimation: ascii has a point here ^
decimation: udp can't be easily distinguished, and this is a gossipd-flavor
asciilifeform: ^
decimation: in fact, you need not put the true address of the recipient in the ip header as long as you can arrange to be somewhere to 'hear' it
asciilifeform: it is tcp which is the ultimate braindamage.
decimation: ^
decimation: pretending that you have a connection on a completely 'broadcast' media is fucktarded
asciilifeform: bringing back state and 'i just showed up and you have no idea who i am but can i pleeez have some bytes of storage'
asciilifeform: like the fucking orphan blox
decimation: and it's not exactly like it is hard to game the tcp state machine
asciilifeform: any protocol where someone gets something, anything more expensive than a bullet, for showing up at the gate,
asciilifeform: is ipso facto retarded.
decimation: you ban udp, and you are just gonna get syn floods
asciilifeform: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate place we're going to is where gossip packets can only be emitted, received, or routed by os that we personally issue; and will only travel on cables to and from mircea_popescu's house
asciilifeform: this is, i argue, an avoidable calamity
asciilifeform: and the way to avoid it is by resisting, unconditionally, any and all seemingly-reasonable suggestions by usg tools to constrict the permissible set of the net.
asciilifeform: for whatever reason.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35368 @ 0.00054084 = 19.1284 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ddos only exists because of usg. as in, deliberate decision to route maladdressed packets, infrastructurally.
asciilifeform: and it is part of a 'good cop & bad cop' act
asciilifeform: don't fall for the 'good cop'
asciilifeform: who tells that 'all will be well' if only you agree to limit net to tiny permissible set of stateful protocolz
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: realize that udp ddoes only ever existed because the net is willing to route packets 'from victim's' machine to the idiot tv boxes, who 'answer' them
asciilifeform: *ddos
asciilifeform: this is the one and only reason it was ever possible.
asciilifeform: usg never liked the lack of inspectorial insight that udp creates. so they have deliberately set up this situation, long ago
asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in. ☟︎
asciilifeform: as tcp forces.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly. the fact that jews favour marriage is no argument pro or against.
mircea_popescu: udp is braindamaged in that it requires a certain sort of world.
mircea_popescu: either provide it the sort of world it requires or visit its grave.
asciilifeform: except that it doesn't
mircea_popescu: what the usg does or doesn't do, wants or doesn't want, etc is irrelevant to everything, usg included.
decimation is confused how any criticism of udp doesn't apply directly to any 'higher' ip protocol
mircea_popescu: decimation upd is hard to filter.
asciilifeform: it is relevant to having created this bizarre situation where mircea_popescu thinks that tcp somehow solves ANY of the problems discussed earlier
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you said yourself it's easier to filter!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very easy to filter: reject anything that isn't a valid gossipd packet addressed to your key
mircea_popescu: mno.
mircea_popescu: i gotta check keys. takes memory allocation. ddos.
asciilifeform: no allocation!
decimation: preallocated
mircea_popescu: ahaha what.
asciilifeform: statically allocated buffer
asciilifeform: can verify packets at line speed.
asciilifeform: (not even speaking of fpga variant here)
decimation: no need for cpu either
decimation: but oculd have in first instance
mircea_popescu: dude get out srsly. i had dedicated machinery go down because random muppet + udp.
mircea_popescu: what are you even on about.
decimation: how many of the muppet's packets were signed?
mircea_popescu: me to isp "turn off fucking udp altogether, it's stupid" isp to me "you'll have toi buy the trunk"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your machinery goes down even when you instruct it to drop all udp on the floor ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the sort of machine that currently goes down is well i nthe six figure range.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta understand the protocol stack.
decimation: lol
mircea_popescu: getting EVERYONE to entirely drop udp as a matter of policy would be a huge gain for me.
decimation: I process 1 gigE udp at line rate on commodity server
mircea_popescu: decimation any time you wanna try processing 2-5mps let me know.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so then you get flooded with TCP SYNs. same difference.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, those i filter ok.
decimation: or acks
mircea_popescu: neither.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but not udp?
mircea_popescu: udp is the problem atm. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: yes.,
asciilifeform: throw out your filter then
asciilifeform: and get new one
decimation: ^
mircea_popescu shrugs.
asciilifeform: to filter tcp syn vs empty udp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stop being theoretical on me. sure same load, not same amplification available.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is going to create a syn flood for you.
asciilifeform: enemy.
asciilifeform: who else.
mircea_popescu: seriously, this discussion is asymmetrical.
mircea_popescu: i handle about two ddos attacks a week.
mircea_popescu: you maybe think about the theory of datagrams once a week.
asciilifeform: not as theoretical as mircea_popescu might think
mircea_popescu: in any case : if it were the rule that udp gets dropped universally, i wouldn't have to have above convo with provider.
asciilifeform: and never see gossipd
mircea_popescu: i'd count this as a plus.
mircea_popescu: ima see gossipd alright. atm, the infrastructure is not the problem.
mircea_popescu: it being written is the problem. as always.
asciilifeform: over what single-packet proto ?
mircea_popescu: excel to excel viruses!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr, i am noit proposing orphan-block TCP is any better. shouldreally be TCP/OB
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: no solutions available does not make shit palatable.
mircea_popescu: i still wish udp died, and with it all the "Services" it provides. starting with dns, ntp and come to think about it
mircea_popescu: it's a fucking wonder "locales" don't somehow udp.
decimation: ntp has a fucktarded exploit - that makes neither 'exchange of time' nor 'udp' retarded
mircea_popescu: ntp IS a fucktarded exploit. of itself.
mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what, jam tomorrow, maybe one day ima get gossipd over udp, perhaps, who knows ? meanwhile half the remaining usg online is BASED, and requires udp to survive at all ?
mircea_popescu: paint my nails and call me mary what the fuck is this.
mircea_popescu: no more udp => no more dns, no more ntp. win of all fucking time, i'd pay to see this happen tomorrow.
jurov: before udp, this originally happened to icmp, which then got filtered routinely... little did that help
mircea_popescu: also true.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00053864 = 30.9179 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: some providers can in fact drop all incoming udp traffic per ip.
decimation: I thought this was pretty standard for 'adult' cloud services
decimation: amazon aws certainly will not pass anything unless firewall is configured, for instance
kakobrekla: i wasnt talking about clold specifically.
decimation: it ought to be simply done in any standard router too
kakobrekla: i was in the place where mp is and they wouldnt do it.
kakobrekla: i moved.
mircea_popescu: decimation yes, unfortunately, yhet another advantage for shithole cloud. "hey, we drop udp at least". exactly the good cop bad cop alf was proposing. but i am not moving to fuckingf cloud, and im not using fucking cloudflare and so fucking om.
decimation: merely an example of an isp that can program routers
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i might. atm not really a big enough deal, whatever, some people can't read trilema for half a day or w/e. but we were discussing the general point.
mircea_popescu: and the general point is udp does not belong. ☟︎
decimation: so you are against single packet routing in general?
kakobrekla: he is coming back because he is getting that half hour.
mircea_popescu: no, i am against udp.
kakobrekla: as far as i can tell the attacker of qntra (trilema?) is the same as it was of bitbet last ddos.
kakobrekla: but my box did not go down.
kakobrekla: and i dont even have udp blocked.
mircea_popescu: do tell ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42487 @ 0.00054411 = 23.1176 BTC [+]
decimation fails to comprehend the difference between 'udp bad' and 'routing single ip packets good'
mircea_popescu: decimation udp is widely deployed in the hands of idiots.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm on a consumer fiber and, with modern hardware on my end (by no means six-figure), udp flood does not touch me.
mircea_popescu: everything that gives idiots voice is the avatar of evil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you ever have a decent one ?
kakobrekla: i am at online.net, recommended by davout (paymium). they have serveral levels of infrastructure to mitigate attacks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets (line saturation)
mircea_popescu: jhahahaha
mircea_popescu: you're new, seriously.
asciilifeform: i mean, they can't walk in any faster than the 100Mb ethernet into the bldg
mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets = 500x line saturation three hops upstream.
mircea_popescu: yes, they can. they can send you a trillion packets in fifteen minutes.
mircea_popescu: because, again, udp.
asciilifeform: ok, those get dropped somewhere else
mircea_popescu: o i see.
kakobrekla: iirc server saw about 800 megs of the 5 gigabit incoming garbage
mircea_popescu: good for you.
asciilifeform: because how are they to walk in?
decimation: no, because ntp machines and misconfigured routers allow sending arbitrary packets
asciilifeform: through the window ?
mircea_popescu: they just take off the thing upstream. which IS six figures.
mircea_popescu: decimation fuck this "misconfigured" bs. because udp.
mircea_popescu: it is on its head.
asciilifeform: my isp clearly did not get defrauded in the same way as mircea_popescu's - because their six-figure machine does not as a result go down
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're basically falling fore the "shared hosting" bit
mircea_popescu: your isp never had the problem, is all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not suggesting that everyone is to move to mordor and subscribe to this isp
mircea_popescu: feel safe all you want, and maybe you never get to matter enough to find out better.
asciilifeform: but will point out that the million-chump botnet can just as easily transmit syn flood as udp crud
decimation: ^ using misconfigured routers
asciilifeform: go, 'feel safe' because you went along with usg's transparent attempt to ban the only presently working single-packet transmission medium.
asciilifeform: ~they~ kick the dog
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu volunteers to shoot it, not realizing that the dog-kicker will kick every dog mircea_popescu ever bends to pet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not the "million chump botnet"
mircea_popescu: it's the dumbass services currently sitting on udp.
mircea_popescu: and you've never answered ot the main point here. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218091 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 14:57:20; mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea.
kakobrekla: you are all being theoretical. in practice you stop udp at least one step before the server in any way you particularity like and be done with it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the chump herd is eminently handle-able. the havok they can wreak by employing udp amps, not.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla myeah.
mircea_popescu: except if that trunk serves idiots who need or think might need udp
decimation: but that's not udp's fault
mircea_popescu: in which case you have to pay.
mircea_popescu: yes, IT IS.
jurov: how is banning of udp going to magick dns/ntp away?
decimation: it's the fault of the misconfigured routers and the idiot ntp code
mircea_popescu: let them run on tcp/ip, should be fun to watch.
mircea_popescu: decimation if you shoot my dog by accident ima bury you
mircea_popescu: it can be the fault of the shitty gun you bought. buy better guns or more funerals.
jurov: then you'll just enable the reflection attacks right to your tcp port 80.. indeed fun to watch
asciilifeform: no routing of forged dest ip >>>>> no amplification ddos.
asciilifeform: that simple.
mircea_popescu reserves the sovereign right to blame anyhone on the path to the "accident" he chooses. so no, it's not "the misconfigured routers", i'm not the pitbull you put in the doorway, slam the door and it then "blames the misconfigured door".
decimation: okay, let's imagine a new 'mpdp' that is the same as udp except carries an extra bit to indicate whether the bearer is an idiot
mircea_popescu: atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: enjoy the syn floodz
mircea_popescu: leaving the entire pile of usg services in the lurch.
asciilifeform: so 'easy to filter' because ~no one is doing them~
asciilifeform: because presently no need.
decimation: is this new udp-like protocol acceptable?
mircea_popescu: yes, im sure the idiots "writing software" and "deploying apps" will soon write more crud and deploy more crap
mircea_popescu: at which point we'll re-have this conversation.
mircea_popescu: decimation for as long as no one uses it.
asciilifeform: realize that there can be no useful gossipd except with something like what is described above (i.e. udp but with protocol != 17)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there can trivially be gossipd-over-blockchain.
mircea_popescu: it'd bette rbe transport protocol agnostic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's on the cable ?
mircea_popescu: dragons.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's tcp, you are serving jam to folks for showing up
asciilifeform: because connection is stateful
asciilifeform: ergo - lose.
decimation: at any rate, the problem isn't udp or tcp, it's the fact that ip packets route without any signature
asciilifeform: no matter how many kilometres long your cock is, and how many cable spools it takes to hold it
mircea_popescu: decimation except he didn't like the fact yu gotta say where you're sending stuff "because usg snoops it"
mircea_popescu: i never comprehended the "anonimity" securityt posture, but whatever.
asciilifeform: i don't like the fact that i gotta say it in cleartext !
asciilifeform: not 'at all'
mircea_popescu: and how's third party gonna reads your codetext.
asciilifeform: third party gets to cry in the corner
mircea_popescu: so how does router know if to route ?
asciilifeform: router knows that it is routing a packet
asciilifeform: but not that said packet is part of a stream
mircea_popescu: to where ?
asciilifeform: (or what stream)
mircea_popescu: routing it to where!
asciilifeform: to destination.
mircea_popescu: no, because it can't check.
asciilifeform: yes, you need dest ip
mircea_popescu: ...
decimation: ^ need not be actual dest ip
mircea_popescu: sigh
asciilifeform: the part i'm objecting to is the sequence # thing
decimation: in fact, node could not have an actual ip at all
asciilifeform: and the multi-step connection opening
mircea_popescu: i get it, you want a woman that's transparent and doesn't bleed.
asciilifeform: i ~have one~
mircea_popescu: "onmly way to have gossipd"
asciilifeform: her name is udp with rsa payload.
asciilifeform: with procol # != 17 because mircea_popescu hates 17
mircea_popescu: mkay. i wouldn't be too worried about her fate - it'd cost usg more than it'd cost me to ditch udp.
asciilifeform: (my isp won't like != 17 either. i will have to send these packets to mircea_popescu by camel.)
mircea_popescu: you can send them via dpaste for all the difference it makes.
mircea_popescu wonders if he's the only one that remembers the major spammer-ddos wars of a few years ago.
jurov: were they reolved by banning a protocol?
mircea_popescu: essentially, yes.
mircea_popescu: it's where all this "ban udp" talk actually started.
mircea_popescu: but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs. ☟︎
decimation: umm, 'access-list deny udp any any' on your subnet?
mircea_popescu: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/03/28/massive-ddos-attack-against-anti-spam-provider-impacts-millions-of-internet-users/
assbot: Massive DDoS attack against anti-spam provider impacts millions of internet users | Naked Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ib3UtB )
mircea_popescu: reference.
mircea_popescu: for they reading the logs not in the cabal.
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting, incidentally, for mircea_popescu to tell me how to set the pogo clock without ntp
asciilifeform: that would be a major scientific advance
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: i don't solve problems. i just throw away other people's solutions. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: much like i don't make kids, the women make kids. i just kill some of the kids they make.
asciilifeform: i get it, this is most fun sport in the world
asciilifeform: until you drown in unsolved.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: i'd love nothing more than for martians to fly over and shoot with disintegrator beam every single x86 box
asciilifeform: and every single arm cpu
mircea_popescu: let's start with something small.
asciilifeform: this is, if anything, even more batshit than what mircea_popescu asked for
mircea_popescu: like fucking udp.
asciilifeform: after which we get to write gossipd with tcp syn instead of udp
mircea_popescu: or dpaste.
asciilifeform: dpaste over pigeon ?
asciilifeform: srsly the pipe has to go through your wall
asciilifeform: same as mine
mircea_popescu: dpaste over alles!
asciilifeform bbl
mircea_popescu: OK, thanks Chester for the clear explanation.
mircea_popescu: Now, how can I verify my Windows 2008 domain server (with Sophos EndPoint Security) is configured correctly?
mircea_popescu: fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: ~WITH SOPHOS END POINT SECURITY~ dontcha know.
mircea_popescu: why are these things on the internet ? i do not wish anything to do with any of them.
mircea_popescu: brandheads.
jurov: they don't want anything to do either.
jurov: they want just buy and click
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the only way to solve this problem is of course ppp, ie pay per packet. and the only way to even run an internet at all is as a blockchain, which is to say mempool and all that.
mircea_popescu: but this may take a while.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00053864 = 15.6475 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 03:59:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217395 << if i have to ship a bootable linux iso, buildrooted for the purpose of building a) self b) bitcoin - i will. in fact, yes, i have this up my sleeve, BUT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO USE IT instead of retarduntu etc
trinque: the rotor problem mod6 and I ran into was simple as can be
trinque: just one of those "right knob" things
mircea_popescu: ^ top thing i hate about linux.
trinque: seems like db's config script had environment data leaking into it from the underlying host
trinque: mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217553 << word. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 04:13:58; mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217570 << fun fact : the ennumeration of all people ~alive today~ would far exceed 9gb. degree of magnitude +. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 04:16:03; asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, in the entire history of human thought there have not been produced 9, or for that matter 1 gb worth recording.
mircea_popescu: this includes all software.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wishes to compare crap and oranges...
mircea_popescu: there's way too many people for the salt they pay.
phf: using linux kernel as the base allows for rapid repurposing of cheap chinese computers, without having to write drive controllers or general kernel hackery. in case of suckless it was probably more to do with audiocards and inertia. at the time when the suckless project started, it wasn't yet obvious how compromised kernel will eventually become, the reaction was mostly to userspace retardation
mircea_popescu: phf how long have you spent reading the logs ?
phf: mircea_popescu: 2014-03-27
mircea_popescu: dude check it out, the year gets experimental verification.
mircea_popescu: ;;rated phf
gribble: You have not yet rated user phf
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 1 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/33b3a0ee64f2338d
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:039ae78c7128555ebad588f79c7dc7edd0087e763c49d7b6a7dd0165e1fbbc08
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
phf: moving on... down? :)
mircea_popescu: down ?
kakobrekla: you are mixing the two wots
kakobrekla: <gribble> You have not yet rated user phf < notice gribble
mircea_popescu: i'm so confused
mircea_popescu: ohhhh
kakobrekla: assbot> Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 < assbot
mircea_popescu: fuck. sorry.
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 2 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c3c7740eb1f5933
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.2:6cea324aa2207bd1d76e587be3036b547021756929f56d01002638c3c027b975
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 2 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217700 << o.O you hawk you! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 11:39:38; BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217706 << wait, what ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:19:55; shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about.
mod6: ;;later tell hanbot check msg
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00053864 = 6.8407 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up Michail
jurov: lol don't act surprised http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-07-26.log.html#t10:06:45
assbot: #Eulora log for Sunday, 2015-07-26 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IugffV )
jurov: mp: "kids must be culled properly" me: "i'd be culled easily" mp:"then these thought you were retarded should have been culled"
jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight... ☟︎
jurov: http://imgur.com/pR356Rc woooo
assbot: Is Windows 10 a botnet? Summary of things that spy on you in W10. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuhbRx )
trinque: if it's free, you're the product!!
trinque: jurov: as for the culling, wouldn't that be up to the parents that clearly decided to let you live? heh
trinque: and if they don't have the luxury of making that decision, *shrug*
trinque: absent a giant safety net, life itself will do the culling
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: !up elgrecoFL
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218261 << depends, what means 'work' ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 15:50:59; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218311 << on one hand, jurov has it. on other, answer to 'flood of meat' is better selection criteria, rather than 'every sperm is precious' (tm) (r) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 16:31:35; jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight...
ascii_field: on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so
danielpbarron too
jurov: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107152 @ 0.00054404 = 58.295 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00053864 = 10.6381 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.00053019 = 74.0675 BTC [-] {4}
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218023 <-- despite Shannon's complete description of communication in propagation, it seems the details of protocols, sources/sinks of information in various forms, are still totally open ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 14:36:04; asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00052081 = 54.8153 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog
trinque: ascii_field | on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so << plenty of intelligent people had all kinds of health problems; surely there are reasons other than "fit as a viking" to live
trinque: as for myself, I was more dead than alive when I plopped into this world, so this is all bonus time
funkenstein_: jurov, at some layer, they must be analog right?
jurov: ofc but it's not accessible to you
funkenstein_: i'm about to buy a SDR ham radio kit
funkenstein_: thinking to go with bladeRF
jurov: will it enable yo to make analog channel to arbitrary ip adddress? i'm all ears :D
funkenstein_: we need full stack IP over aether
jurov: you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon
funkenstein_: end to end encrypt by default
funkenstein_: lol
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
funkenstein_: i don't think DDOS is going away
ascii_field: trinque: i wasn't even speaking of health per se
ascii_field: just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu
ascii_field: funkenstein_ et al: the basic quandry is that communication channels are scarce and very crowded.
kakobrekla: because of the 80 vhs tapes?
funkenstein_: cocktail party
trinque: ascii_field: well shit, how many do?
ascii_field: the only solutions fall into the broad categories of 'moar channel' or 'less meat'
ascii_field: like any other famine.
funkenstein_: specific-to-source orthogonal waveforms
ascii_field: crack a textbook
funkenstein_: well lately it's been going along the lines of you name them and I order them
ascii_field: r. feynman., 'lectures on physics', vol. 1-3.
ascii_field: or if you're a l333337 d00d, landau & lifschitz vol. 1-5
ascii_field: through 8 rather.
funkenstein_: no we're talking, i would say best texts ever
funkenstein_: though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail
funkenstein_: anyway it appears we all share that kind of background
funkenstein_: but I am curious the specifics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26600 @ 0.0005381 = 14.3135 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: enjoyed recent thread: GSM et al.
funkenstein_: i should probably go read IEEE 802 specs
ascii_field: the subject of why every bag of meat on this sorry rock can't have own radio station, to any useful degree, 'will not fit in the margins of this page' unfortunately.
funkenstein_: plenty of aether to go around, i think we just don't know how to use it yet
funkenstein_: http://www.brainfacts.org/Sensing-Thinking-Behaving/Awareness-and-Attention/Articles/2013/The-Cocktail-Party-Problem
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218302 <<< I'll make an exception in your case danielpbarron, because not once have you told me "shinohai, you gonna FRY!" ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 16:08:35; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is
funkenstein_: the masses do not know what mass is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61300 @ 0.00051262 = 31.4236 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: shinohai: hail satan!
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzjshF0TFm8 << some music to corrupt your soul
assbot: AT THE GATES - Death And The Labyrinth (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DSXhdx )
kakobrekla: i can hardly understand what the guy is trying to sing to me.
trinque: something something killing people in a labyrinth, evil is basically a weird art project, something something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60482 @ 0.0005381 = 32.5454 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00053849 = 17.7971 BTC [+]
shinohai: trinque: I do regularly mumble prayers in public to Satan, when fundamentalists ruin my meal by trying to pray loudly over their food for 30 minutes. ☟︎
trinque: shinohai: raised religious?
trinque: I suspect that's why the satan schtick amuses me so
shinohai: Yes, a cult
trinque: that'll do it!
mircea_popescu: jurov just because you posit there's going to be retrospection needed doesn't mean it's either necessarily so or what i said, you know.
trinque: shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w37V5IOfQlI << another good one in that vein
assbot: Mors principium est-bringer of light - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT162q )
shinohai: Considering they believe the world is going to end and there is no need for any sort of secular education, it is a wonder I can read at all.
mircea_popescu: * danielpbarron too << maybe solution then is ask 7 yo kid if they should be killed and do the opposite. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what do the fuckwits know.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon << all stacks must wear burka!
shinohai: And I love Mors Principum Est, I'm OG and like Slayer tho
mircea_popescu: ascii_field just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu << you think anyone actually wants more of me around ?
mircea_popescu: "ajunge un bat la un car de oale."
mircea_popescu: shinohai what's og.
trinque: shinohai: old metal does me just fine too, gotta know the greats
shinohai: Original Gangsta
mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail << o.O so then what have you done ?
shinohai: But, yeah. I dunno how many copies of Led Zeppelin albums my parents burned when I was a kid.
jurov: https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11760247_10153571490573982_7194971534506656776_n.jpg?oh=53007a0adf39e0cd1a8d16035dc19388&oe=563C0E16 << pic related
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuGtij )
trinque: shinohai: heh! I got busted for tom petty once, of all things. told my mom "you could stand me up at the gates of hell, but I wont back down"
mircea_popescu: lol
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, good question. i spent a lot of time with the fluid mechanics volume back in the day.
mircea_popescu: poor woman.
shinohai: Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum ☟︎
shinohai: or The Name of The Rose
mircea_popescu: whahaha
mircea_popescu: poor kid.
shinohai: Tom Petty? Jesus F'in Christ
trinque: hilarity of it is I think the guy's a born again himself
mircea_popescu: so did you give them madonna's "sex" for their 15th aniversary ?
trinque: haha, I don't torture the poor folks anymore, keep my heathen ways to myself
trinque: they at least knew the whole world was filled with shit, just weren't sure what kind
mircea_popescu: this is a point.
shinohai: I moved away and never looked back. Haven't spoken to anyone in my family in almost 20 years.
trinque: I have a great relationship with them; they spend all day trying to not suck, and good for them
trinque: they just missed
mircea_popescu: interesting. i see both angles.
shinohai: I imagine mine are still sitting around waiting for the world to end, and trying to force-feed as much of that nonsense to others as possible.
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8fbe0005e45f6bc64efc4ca034b46249/tumblr_n0jownfewq1si2s09o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT2OAE )
shinohai: The scan checks out mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hm?
shinohai: The barcode above the woman's vag
mircea_popescu: oh. lol.
mircea_popescu: shinohai you gonna FRAY!
shinohai: Just call me crispy then.
mircea_popescu: (btw, the vagina is the internal part. that's a vulva)
shinohai: Well if the vag is internal, and the barcode is on top of that, technically it *is* above.
mircea_popescu: i guess so huh
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
shinohai: 102 F ... damn it's hot. Time to blend up some margaritas or something.
shinohai: May as well drink before Kim eliminates me: http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/30-07-2015/131527-kim-0/
mircea_popescu: Kim said the contest was intended to "bring about a radical turn in the drills to round off preparations for a war full of the will to settle with arms accounts with the U.S. imperialists, the chieftain of aggression, and the South Korean puppet group keen to escalate the confrontation with the fellow countrymen and that of social systems, seized with sycophancy toward the U.S.,"
mircea_popescu: such a bizarre phrase structure they use by now
ascii_field: pravda ought to fire their translator
mircea_popescu: "Gone forever is the era when the United States blackmailed us with nukes; now the United States is no longer a source of threat and fear for us and we are the very source of fear for it."
ascii_field: 'Напомним, Правда. Ру вчера сообщала о выступлении посла Северной Кореи в РФ Ким Хен Чжуна, который заявил, что его страна не намерена следовать примеру Ирана и идти на переговоры с Западом на предмет сокращения своей ядерной програм
ascii_field: мы. Вместо этого, Пхеньян активно готовится к ядерному противостоянию, так как страна подвергается давлению с целью переворота в стране, так как США участили свои учения с вооруженными силами Южной Кореи.'
mircea_popescu: is it a bad thing that i find him more amusing than the run of the mill usg "comedian" ?
mircea_popescu: what's general snipes say
mircea_popescu: (of nato)
shinohai: Between him and the Iranian female ninjas, I am starting to quake in my shoes.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field original reads a lot better.
mircea_popescu: anyway, obviously unlike iran they won't cut a deal.
ascii_field: roughly: 'let us remind, yesterday, pravda.ru yesterday described the speech of the ambassador of north kr, kim hen jeon, who pronounced that his country will not follow the example of iran and go into talks with the west re: nuclear disarmament. instead, pyongyang will actively prepare for a nuclear tension, given the fact that usa is increasing its involvement with training of the south kr army.'
mircea_popescu: unlike iran, nobody is offering them one.
ascii_field: why offer what will not be taken.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "standoff", neh ?
ascii_field: aha
mircea_popescu: oh, they'd take.
mircea_popescu: offer them what iran got, what cuba got, they'll take it.
ascii_field: anyway this is poppycock, north kr is controlled with rice, not nukes
ascii_field: (from the west)
trinque: strikes me as nothing more than internal politics
trinque: the language is always "prepared" to fight
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW2xyXl2tTI
assbot: Preparing... - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuK2VU )
ascii_field: trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr ☟︎
trinque: probably so
trinque: http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/its-official-china-south-korea-sign-free-trade-agreement/ << does not appear that china gives half a shit what nk wants
assbot: It’s Official: China, South Korea Sign Free Trade Agreement | The Diplomat ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuKjYM )
trinque: and that's probably the opinion that matters most
ascii_field: how many people know, for instance, that south started the kr war ?
mircea_popescu: erryone ?
mircea_popescu: btw, re notable italians : http://trilema.com/2011/italo-calvino/
assbot: Italo Calvino on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT6uCz )
ascii_field: or that north was an industrial giant, heavy on the machinery market, until blockaded by usa and its muppets ?
ascii_field: but yes, they are in 'hitler's bunker' mode
ascii_field: hence the stories being ~believable~
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and italy was an empire and spain was an empire and what else.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: except that italy and spain did not get history-edited
mircea_popescu: orly.
ascii_field: aha, even f-students know that they were once empires.
mircea_popescu: ask any muppet today, he thinks europe is christian and christian values fundamentally european.
mircea_popescu: hollow word.
mircea_popescu: they do not know what that meant.
mircea_popescu: might as well say "any kid today knows nkr is <<a country>>".
mircea_popescu: big whop
ascii_field: mircea_popescu ought to contact his supplier and have a stern talk re: getting a higher grade of muppet shipped in
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be a shittier muppet ?
ascii_field: not necessarily
shinohai: Same in America, blabbering about how this nation was specifically founded on Christian principles, without ever bothering to read the treaty of Tripoli.
mircea_popescu: shinohai ironically, the us was founded on sectarian neoprotestantism alright.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, so was england, at about the same time. diff flavour.
shinohai: I honestly have no issues with those that do choose to practice religion, just respect the fact that some don't.
trinque: I prefer most do have some form of mind control installed.
trinque: look what happens otherwise?
mircea_popescu: well... honestly, if one takes the stand that mcd is not really food, that same one'd be hard pressed to count neoprotestant lols as religion.
trinque: ;;later tell pete_dushenski let me go ahead and eat my words re: desert gods now
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: 'i prefer that the planet exert a gravitational pull. look what happens otherwise'
ascii_field: look where ?
shinohai gift wraps a copy of LeVay's Satanic Bible, sends it to trinque
trinque: heh I've read some of that stuff
trinque: it's like Ayn Rand with candles
shinohai: LOL
mircea_popescu: bwahaha
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=www:download:start << 300 M !!! i withdraw my recommendation of 'minix'
assbot: www:download:start [Wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9EpT )
ascii_field: it was coopted.
ascii_field: and authors find it necessary to lie, e.g.,
ascii_field: 'In monolithic operating systems, a driver can write to any word of memory and thus accidentally trash user programs. In MINIX 3, when a user expects data from, for example, the file system, it builds a descriptor telling who has access and at what addresses. It then passes an index to this descriptor to the file system, which may pass it to a driver. The file system or driver then asks the kernel to write via the
ascii_field: descriptor, making it impossible for them to write to addresses outside the buffer.'
ascii_field: ^ trivially disproved
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054279 = 18.0749 BTC [+]
ascii_field: i can ask, e.g., a nic, to read or write arbitrary word in ram
ascii_field: (if i can access the nic at all from the machine end)
shinohai: "We just launched and are all excited, but one caveat. Transactions don't work."
shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3f6f1r/reminder_the_block_gas_limit_is_currently_5000_so/
assbot: REMINDER: the block gas limit is currently 5000, so it is not possible to send transactions. We will release an update in a couple days to cause miners to "vote" the gas limit upwards at which point the full blockchain functionality will be de-facto enabled. : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9ZJ5 )
shinohai: Gas limit indeed. Whole project is hot gas.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, nobody yet bought the shorts
mircea_popescu: what was it, a year ? 16 months ?
ascii_field: nobody needed to
mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin
assbot: 5 results for 'from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+ethereum+bitcoin
ascii_field: buterin & co just got $2M from usg.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-07-2014#764480 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-07-2014 22:53:40; mircea_popescu: ;;sell 5000 "ethereum coins deliverable March 15th, 2014" for 1 BTC.
mircea_popescu: lolz.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70769 @ 0.00053752 = 38.0398 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: How did they manage to get $2 mil in funding ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56550 @ 0.00053753 = 30.3973 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2015#1214392 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2015 23:27:09; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^ https://archive.is/2ZiCQ
kakobrekla: katz did it too.
kakobrekla: oh this is about the same thing.
kakobrekla: it doesnt mention butterin
hanbot: re that hearn-gmaxwell reddit slapfight, "Not many quit their jobs and created companies to build products only for today's tiny user base." is the best part. sv somehow hoping http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/#selection-61.0-61.210 never happened.
assbot: The future of Bitcoin regulation on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuOLXs )
ascii_field: kakobrekla: see mircea_popescu's post re: elaine shi & co.
kakobrekla: yeah i better shutup as im always behind.
shinohai: I think I'll sign up for that. My innovative new currency is "mined" by wiping 1 square of tissue across my ballsack for 30 seconds.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: she and her fuckbuddy oversee a university lab where slave labour (grad students) work (or pretend to) on 'ethereum'
kakobrekla: nice
mircea_popescu: lawl. actually hanbot & shinohai the stuff's quite well related. sv knows how to do one thing, the whole "make a market out of a trillion shitheads and sell them sheep olives for quarter pennies". and usg lives in this delusional alt-reality where it is enough for it to say, and things happen.
mircea_popescu: both these got a little crashed, and yes i'm going to bleed the living life out of the entire set of derp shartups, and yes it can say until it falls over.
mircea_popescu: but hey. until that day, every wooden cutout's a soldier.
shinohai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army
assbot: Terracotta Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DTbWoT )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you will notice, if inclined to notice, the distress manifest in the reduction of funding.
ascii_field: reduction ?!
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: coinbase can live on no 2 million.
mircea_popescu: last year it was, "tens of millions". merely not jumping to hundred this year = fail
ascii_field: coinbase no, 2 uni profs - sure
mircea_popescu: but in fact it withered to a coupla, and doled out through the university program.
ascii_field: that 2m is ~just~ for that particular sc4ml4b
mircea_popescu: 2 uni profs aren't a threat to the fucking mice in their own lab.
mircea_popescu: it's scaling down, and painfully so.
mircea_popescu: the 2016 usg line re bitcoin will be that "never happened, not important, uninteresting"
ascii_field: wake me up when they can't afford to mine spamblox any moar.
mircea_popescu: much like the olympics they can't aford.
mircea_popescu: "it has problems, can't deliver on customer expectations, etc". you see the seeds in the amazon recent lol/
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin has problems that our system sucks"
ascii_field: yes, there is a ministry of usg that occupies itself with finding nails for the microscope to pound in, badly
ascii_field: but it is not the only ministry
mircea_popescu: the sv ministry got raped a little.
mircea_popescu: the agitprop ministry got raped a little.
mircea_popescu: there's really not that many.
mircea_popescu: anyway, be that as it may, i
mircea_popescu: 've never had this much fun in my life!
ascii_field: on a not entirely unrelated note, incitatus has been steadily ~100 blocks behind
ascii_field: for the last week or so, after (briefly) fully synced
ascii_field: the ministry of dropped packets is doing well.
trinque: which reminds me, my rotor instance chewed up its db when a drive's usb cable disconnected
trinque: and berkdb claims its a db?
ascii_field: trinque: this is not specific to rotor !!
trinque: course not
trinque: I know that
trinque: I'm going to restart it from the beginning
ascii_field: trinque: and go, unplug the disk of, e.g., a postgres
trinque: but it's a place for obvious improvement
ascii_field: you'll be surprised.
trinque: ascii_field: would not do this
trinque: write ahead log is for that
ascii_field: again, you'll be surprised.
trinque: as always, it depends
trinque: but I bet postgresql would win on balance
trinque: it's not an unsolvable problem to just hack off the frayed bit and begin again from there
ascii_field: trinque: you speak as if this thing didn't eat enough ram and weren't slow enough
ascii_field: now we also need a tcp crud pipe for every access to the blockchain ????!!
trinque: atomicity of writes would be nice.
trinque: how, a fine thing to think about
ascii_field: easy
ascii_field: keep all blocks in antifuse rom ☟︎
ascii_field: n+1 bits per block, with the last one signifying 'finalized'
ascii_field: blow the last bit when 0...n represent valid block.
trinque: there, that's an awesome idea.
ascii_field: now go buy a silicon fab so that antifuse rom gets produced again.
ascii_field: it is - afaik - EXTINCT today
trinque turns the death metal on again, fitting as it is
ascii_field: the 'otp' chips sold currently are a FRAUD - eeproms with black epoxy instead of window !!
ascii_field: *eproms
phf: well block*.dat are essentially append only, the idea can be emulated by having transaction bits. you write a t bit, you write rest of block, when done flip t bit. on restart you walk backwards until the first flipped bit and you file truncate anything from that point on
ascii_field: nothing on a pc is 'append only' ! ☟︎
ascii_field: with possible exception of 'cd-r'
trinque: what he describes is effectively a wal log, what's wrong with it?
trinque: bleh, *wal, I mean
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: !s protocol vs promise
assbot: 2 results for 'protocol vs promise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=protocol+vs+promise
ascii_field: there is an important difference between 'x will not happen because i promise not to stick it in that hole, really' and 'x cannot happen because physics'
ascii_field: and yes, people have occasionally been mistaken about physics
trinque: fair point, yet that means no atomicity til bitcoin has its very own hardware arch
trinque: maybe that's called for here
ascii_field: but in virtually every case known, it was really a case of 'i won't go in that hole, promise'
ascii_field: trinque: i was pointing out that you need a relatively minor (from r&d standpoint) device, that was ~once available~ and isn't today.
ascii_field: pertinent story:
ascii_field: i was once a sysadmin, for a spell
ascii_field: and we have a then-popular tape robot
ascii_field: the docs mentioned that one could buy 'write-once tapes', for usg regulatory compliance
ascii_field: this piqued my curiosity and i inquired to the vendor, how, precisely, does one make a write-once magnetic tape ?!!
ascii_field: was told that it is ordinary tape. but with a magic hole in the cartridge - like old floppy disk
ascii_field: that the drive would obey.
ascii_field: nearly fell down laughing
ascii_field: a fifty-cent magnet will 'rewrite' happily, these magical 'write once' tapes.
shinohai: "magic hole"?!
ascii_field: as will the tape deck and a piece of 'scotch'
ascii_field: shinohai: yes, like 3 inch 'floppy'
ascii_field: anyway, this is 'promise'
ascii_field: 'protocol' is when you can't rewrite because you can't unburn a hole.
ascii_field: (though still have to be careful because enemy can make holes in any place where you had not)
trinque: amazing how bitcoin drastically increases the requirements on rigor and correctness
trinque: ty assbot
ascii_field: trinque: in precisely the same way that abdominal surgery increases required standard of hygiene
phf: pray mr babbage
kakobrekla: <trinque> maybe that's called for here < actually its called for in many other places, you still dont get it.
ascii_field: ^^^
trinque: I get it just fine.
kakobrekla: where?
kakobrekla: get the hardware i meant.
trinque: chewing up a database on disk is a fine way to run afoul of the "I do not have the correct blockchain problem" the whole piece of software by its very purpose tries to avoid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00054108 = 28.542 BTC [+]
trinque: and while you're fabbing hardware, might want to keep the integrity of the thing in the meantime
trinque: kakobrekla: ah I got ya
trinque: but then to continue in that vein, I do see how trying endless mitigations is a death by a thousand cuts.
ascii_field: none of this is hard to make.
ascii_field: in the sense that 'cold fusion' or elixir of immortality is
trinque: sure, just needs a business case that works like anything
ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium
trinque: ascii_field: tactically speaking, supposing there just isn't time for antifuse rom?
ascii_field: ??
trinque: or <insert real solution here>
ascii_field: what means, 'isn't time'
trinque: or are we already in a position where things like the blocksize limit debate are moot
trinque: I took that to be one of the reasons to take over development of bitcoind
ascii_field: the reason to remove machine gun from the hands of a demented anal child is not necessarily that you need the thing for anything.
ascii_field: trinque: i'll repeat the question - what is the meaning of 'isn't time' here ?
trinque: #up peterl
trinque: !up peterl
peterl: thanks, trinque
trinque: yw
peterl: btw, I alrways read your name like it rhymes with drink, is this right?
trinque: that's how I say it, yep
trinque: ascii_field: supposing the network goes the way of the gavins
trinque: but in that case I suppose "let em fork" ?
ascii_field: there is no 'the network'
trinque: better to get bitcoind right?
ascii_field: there is the gavins, and there is the actual people.
ascii_field: it's that simple.
shinohai is glas he discovered therealbitcoin
shinohai: *glad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47586 @ 0.00054108 = 25.7478 BTC [+]
trinque: I've taken the size of the network as one of the things ensuring its continued existence.
ascii_field: trinque: how ?
peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*. ☟︎☟︎
trinque: ascii_field: the hashing power monopoly scenario; say it forks and there's nearly no hashing power on the side of therealbitcoind
ascii_field: trinque: then we switch workfunctions
ascii_field: trinque: say, the cellular automata apparatus i described last year
trinque goes to find the thread
ascii_field: understand, the thing can work while being used only by mircea_popescu and five other similar fellas to 'hawala' at each other.
pete_dushenski: ;;seen BingoBoingo
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 14 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it
peterl: does it matter how much hashing pwer they have if it is pointed at the other side of a fork?
pete_dushenski: peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ is no more ?
pete_dushenski: wtf qntra. stop snarfing my shit. why you no like my cecil comment ?
peterl: hmm, yeah, I havn't had time to keep up with that, did you use it? I suppose I could resurect it?
pete_dushenski: i used it now and again
pete_dushenski: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land ☟︎
assbot: Bittrex.com - ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPBx95 )
shinohai: heh buttrex
pete_dushenski: eth up a solid 20x over ipo price for those (like saifedean) who threw a couple bucks at it and are ready to cash the fuck out. ☟︎
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << anybody interesting ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*.
peterl: no, just some derpy schmoe. I thought about sending funny emails to all his friends, but didn't.
pete_dushenski: !s desert god
assbot: 1 results for 'desert god' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=desert+god
pete_dushenski: trinque refresh my memory perhaps ?
shinohai: !up ascii_field
trinque: pete_dushenski: it was in reference to the ISIS convo
shinohai: Be evil peterl and send emails to ISIS recruiters.
kakobrekla: a whole 8 buttcoin volume on that thin, is that all they got?
pete_dushenski: trinque silly me. of course.
trinque: above I spoke about being fond of my folks having the drive to "not suck"
peterl: I should have emailed the ISIS and cc'ed NSA?
trinque: regardless of it being derived from said desert god
shinohai: xD
trinque: \
trinque nearly drops his laptop...
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla that's buttrex trading engine at 9,000 rpm for ya.
pete_dushenski: makes bitstamp look like the chinese olympic games
trinque: until later gents
pete_dushenski: trinque they do seem to have their place and their purpose.
pete_dushenski: cheers.
pete_dushenski: peterl shoulda logged into your sr account
peterl: first I would have to make one
phf: ascii_field: is your argument then, on a higher level, if abstraction leaks it should not be introduced?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: phf: no. if it leaks, should find the author and boil him in oil.
ascii_field: it is very helpful, and should be introduced, so that we know whom to boil in oil.
ascii_field: it is entirely possible to make abstractions which do not, in any meaningful sense, leak.
ascii_field: e.g., hardly anyone knows - or needs to know - what chemical process precisely it was that produced his cpu.
ascii_field: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 << see also.
assbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPCY7G )
shinohai: Heh i need to find those dumb dogecoins i have somewhere and cash 'em out for btc, i could use it.
phf: ascii_field: oh i wan't talking in the abstract, i was thinking in terms of prescriptive specifically when it comes to working on bitcoind
ascii_field: phf: for so long as it runs on a consumer pc, it will exhibit the braindamage characteristic to the pc.
peterl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217674 << why does everybody mention it was a dentist that killed the lion? Did a tooth extraction go horribly wrong? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:25:45; scoopbot_revived: Cecil the Lion is a Pretext for Expanding Extraterritoriality of US Law http://qntra.net/2015/07/cecil-the-lion-is-a-pretext-for-expanding-extraterritoriality-of-us-law/
ascii_field: such as losing bits when the mains current flickers
ascii_field: peterl: it is hidden 'class' outrage
ascii_field: 'why is a dentist wealthy enough to go on safari ?!'
ascii_field: phinancier - a-ok
ascii_field: politico - a-ok
ascii_field: kill, eat the last panda, why not.
ascii_field: dentist?! atrocity.
shinohai: We should help preserve as many lions as possible, IMO. What else are we gonna feed all the Xstians to?
ascii_field: ocelots.
peterl: reminds me of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1430626/ where the antagonists are a bunch of rich snobs who strive to eat the most rare species
assbot: Les Pirates! Bons à rien, mauvais en tout (2012) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPDhPG )
peterl: why did assbot get the title in french?
pete_dushenski: because kako's a socialist
phf: ascii_field: there's a lot of leaky abstractions in the current codebase, starting with "string" and "bignum". presumably the solution for those will be to port bitcoind to an architecture with tagged memory?
ascii_field: phf: aha.
ascii_field: phf: and if you know of these leaking in some meaningful sense, please say.
phf: ascii_field: so what's the difference between existing leaky abstractions that don't leak in some meaningful sense and the ones that we decide to introduce?
ascii_field: phf: please give more specific example ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Comment rescued
phf: ascii_field: oh i'm still on the subject of wal logs
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo cheers mate. i guess i'm in the spammer books or something
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: You most likely used a spammy word combo. Or you lost your automatic approval browser cookie since your last comment.
ascii_field: phf: when you lose your keys, you may not know exactly where they are, but you can be very certain that they are not on the moon.
ascii_field: this is what it means for an abstraction not to leak.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo myeah. ah well. all better nao !
ben_vulpes is looking forward to digesting three days of megalog
ben_vulpes: !up SuchWow
ben_vulpes: how's the dogecoin?
SuchWow: lol
SuchWow: as always :)
SuchWow: kinda surprising how stable it's been
SuchWow: how's the bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: scam, as always
Adlai: kinda surprising how unstable it's been
SuchWow: any hot new bitcoin assets?
SuchWow: are there IPOs with bitcoin based stocks at all
Adlai: ;;ident suchwow
gribble: Nick 'suchwow', with hostmask 'SuchWow!~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow', is not identified.
SuchWow: I am just SuchWow, never cared for identing with anything other than nickserv
SuchWow: they do know me in #dogecoin tho, it's true. ;)
shinohai: If you aren't in WoT, you don't exist.
SuchWow: i like being invisible
asciilifeform: !down SuchWow
ascii_field: very invisible.
ascii_field: you're welcome, SuchWow
shinohai: ty ascii_field
phf: ascii_field: i'm having hard time understanding your point then. c++ on a von neumann machine leaks by protocol, so we either write against the guarantees of the underlying machine or not at all?
ascii_field: phf: c++ on x86 will be a turd, yes
ascii_field: and if phf read the logz, he knows that i am an opponent of maintaining the 0.5.3 thing into eternity.
phf: !up ascii_field
phf: huh, i actually forgot that. it was somewhere in the discussion about conformal implementation, "not written in wot"
ascii_field: phf: more of a 'written in proprietary turdlang'
ascii_field: but also, yes, non-wot
mircea_popescu: ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium << this sounds like it';d sell
ascii_field: sold great in usa!
ascii_field: 1800-1920 roughly
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << any good nudes ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218686 << obvious;ly thewir derpy web2.0 site doesn't load here. how much actual BTC could i get by shorting a billion eth atm, provided of course there were an actual market for the thing which behaved like a market and so i could do this ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:57:05; pete_dushenski: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land
ascii_field: let's together visit the planet with the market-that-behaves-like-market
pete_dushenski: let's see, at 8 btc a day...
ascii_field: mircea_popescu can short eth there
ascii_field: and i will sell real cpu.
mircea_popescu: go there, come back with functioning hardware ?
kakobrekla: peterl because the end point of assbot url parser is in france. assbot is on another server, for obvious reasons.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu you'd be an even older old man by the time you went through a billion eth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91040 @ 0.00054297 = 49.432 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: peterl and imdb wants to be 'smart'.
mircea_popescu: no, seriously, what's the thing quoted at ?
pete_dushenski: 0.01 btc/eth
mircea_popescu: ahahaah what!
pete_dushenski: pre-sale was 0.0005
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna buy some eth from me ?
ascii_field: http://www.dbit.com/index.html << in other nyooz, this exists.
assbot: D Bit Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGFsF )
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski lol ? they claimed iirc something more like 0.001 which is whyt i was offering 5k for 1btc last year
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they sold for 1/4 what i was offering ? "presale" , what's that, the web2.0 word for "fraud" ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu pre-sale was 1337 - 2000 eth/btc, depending on timing
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1/0.0005
gribble: 2000
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: it's starting to come back to me.
mircea_popescu: so anyone wanna pay me 100 btc for 10k etc ?
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/ << obligatory
assbot: A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum’s Genesis Sale Offers | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGPjz )
mircea_popescu: yeah. lulz of all time.
ascii_field: and that iso boots!
ascii_field: in 250 milliseconds (emulator), no less
ascii_field: damn.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: which ios this ?
shinohai: great article pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: thanks man
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34709 @ 0.00053363 = 18.5218 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: I think I read somewhere that failed "social currency" reddcoin 's lead developer quit, after squandering all their IPCO funds, and now they are going to attempt round two. ☟︎
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://www.dbit.com/demo.html << it
assbot: Ersatz-11 Demo version ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDwdE2 )
ascii_field: i bet that fella sleeps ad libitum
ascii_field: and has a spiffy long grey beard.
ascii_field: no 'css' on that www ! ☟︎
ascii_field: that thing talks to modern nics, etc.
ascii_field: (from emulated pdp11)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://www.dbit.com/putr/putr.asm << he develops in asm, aha
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDxhrx )
ascii_field: http://moneyandtech.com/mark-karpeles-agents-responsible-mt-gox-hack << lulz >> http://www.coindesk.com/report-tokyo-police-seeking-fraud-charges-against-mt-gox-ceo
assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdip )
assbot: Report: Police Seeking Criminal Charges Against Mt Gox CEO ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdiz )
ascii_field: https://archive.is/YmBC8
assbot: Mark Karpeles: US Agents Might Be Responsible for Mt. Gox Hack | Money & Tech ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVhPb )
trinque: has king karp skipped tokyo yet?
trinque: holy shit, at least he said it aloud ☟︎
decimation: <+jurov> funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog < shannon applies to intertubes, as his theory applies to all tranmission of information - you must expend energy to communicate and there is no infinitely reliable channel
ascii_field: trinque: disappointing further down, where he accuses the sr investigator derps
ascii_field: rather than his actual handlers
ascii_field: (karpeles doesn't want to eat the nailgun yet, apparently)
trinque: too bad; he almost did something half-honorable
trinque: sr --> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.
trinque: do they do anything else anymore, other than govt theater
trinque: this of course doesn't absolve gox of being grossly incompetent
trinque: but fascinating.
jurov: decimation: since you like to split hairs, does, say, does the noise distribution in your internet connection have a value you can use in shannon's theorem?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78156 @ 0.00052515 = 41.0436 BTC [-]
jurov: i'd say it does not, it's either almost noiseless or there's no connection at all
jurov: like arguing about newtonian physics in videogame
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58122 @ 0.00053686 = 31.2034 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Since scoop seems missing http://qntra.net/2015/07/karpeles-facing-charges-in-japan/
assbot: Karpeles Facing Charges in Japan? | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbH0lG )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell williamdunne bring back scoops !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: jurov: not so. plenty of packets would be lost if you attempted to spam me with udp, for instance
decimation: but at any rate, you can experiment yourself, dump large quantities of data from one machine to another. you will find a non-zero error rate eventually
decimation: it's quite low, but not infinitely so
decimation: I suppose I don't see a difference between analog and digital communication, even in principle
ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217340 << general wesley snipes lol ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:58:03; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka
BingoBoingo: https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6 << lulz
assbot: Block size according to technological growth. · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbIM6k )
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217349 << total agreement. that book I linked you to put it this way "If an idea is true, it belongs equally to all who are capable of understanding it." p.56 - did you ever get to that btw? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 02:15:56; trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128000 @ 0.00052398 = 67.0694 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm ☟︎
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi casi. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Not sources provided at http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/bitcoin-0.7.2/ are now out of sync with what I am actually running
assbot: Index of /bitcoin-0.7.2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQ4wEJ )
BingoBoingo: *Note
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218870 << why did you do this, again...? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 23:45:27; BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm
asciilifeform: why not backport whatever it was you liked so much in 0.7 ??
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So I can learn and derp on systems other people aren't counting on
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nobody's counting on 0.5.3 last i knew...
asciilifeform: (except possibly for me, i moved my personal flagship to my bleeding tree; but i'm not a serious user of bitcoin)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218871 << none of the cups i had there tasted of burned diesel the way 'starbucks' mandatorily does. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 23:49:03; ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi
asciilifeform: this alone is enough for me.
BingoBoingo: It is hard to say what anyone counts on. It is also hard to say how well I actually understand the cpp I attempt a performance of reading. And so Imma keep chopping at this for a while to get more familiar with the code. main.cpp is already ~1000 loc shorter than 0.7.2 release, perhaps more. I figure Derp on 0.7, read 0.5.x and patches and maybe at some point I will understand
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho, the problem is that the item you are becoming familiar with, has no future.