log
solrodar: yes, but not used it
mircea_popescu: !h
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
mircea_popescu: solrodar consider register a signature with the bot.
mircea_popescu: registering*
solrodar: ok
mircea_popescu: also consider leaving a comment with the link and a functional email address on the trilema post.
mircea_popescu: (trying to make sure you can actually claim your prize - as it is anyone can in principle use a freenode nick)
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: None | Current Difficulty: 4.940201493122746E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 364895 | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: !up solrodar
solrodar: !rate assbot 1 testing
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
solrodar: heh
ben_vulpes: !rate solrodar 1 doolb wen
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f2cf461b4bf2e335
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.solrodar.1:898d1835333b88e8a1aeafa9acb92bbad9b839fc1cf4135f8a2ea7ea45bf4c5f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: doolb wen
BingoBoingo: solrodar: Now !up yourself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00057586 = 6.3345 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1194040 << sorry, totally useless ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:59:32; solrodar: http://imgh.us/bitcoin-dot.svg
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-07-2015#1192228 << see thread ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:11:38; ascii_field: my patience for 'help the mouse find the cheese' ran out when i was four
solrodar: it's not great I know
solrodar: but if that's the actual structure of the code then what else can you do?
shinohai: I need a projector to see it
asciilifeform: solrodar: gonna tell me that the structure requires putting, e.g., CWalletDB::ReadBestBlock a mile away from AppInit2, even though the former connects to ~nothing else~ ???!!
asciilifeform: and see example of CreateNewBlock
asciilifeform: if you had ~only~ this chart,
asciilifeform: could you say what it calls ?
asciilifeform: i'd be lying if i said yes
asciilifeform: not trying to be a spoilsport, but pointing out fact
solrodar: yeah some things are oddly positioned
trinque: it's gonna take manual arrangement
trinque: no way around it
asciilifeform: trinque: i really don't understand why
asciilifeform: the most obvious problems have nothing to do with shortest paths
trinque: and/or some really nice force directed graph thing
trinque: of which I've found nothing but shit
asciilifeform: another problem is abominably small print
asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.
solrodar: I don't think any amount of manual arrangement would shrink the overall size that much
asciilifeform: solrodar: tell you what. i'm not the one who put up the bounty (that was mircea_popescu) but i was the one who asked for the chart. if you can produce a dependency graph in s-expression format, embodying the info in this graph, ~and~ show me how to get same using open source utils, i will say the job is done
solrodar: there are so many edges that you need to leave space between the nodes to keep them from overlapping too much
asciilifeform: (the job won't be done, but it will become possible for me to do it)
asciilifeform: you know, there is no reason why all the letters have to be parallel with the bottom of the page
asciilifeform: plenty of room if you remove that limit
solrodar: I don't follow you
solrodar: what's parallel with what?
asciilifeform: the captions
asciilifeform: are all horizontal
asciilifeform: they don't have to be
solrodar: I don't see how changing that would give you more space
BingoBoingo: !b 9
assbot: Last 9 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2SZRD5W.txt )
asciilifeform: ferfuxxake
asciilifeform: i could draw the picture and explain. but then i will have drawn the picture
BingoBoingo: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B3S7RR.txt )
solrodar: I mean it's the positioning of the boxes which is the problem
BingoBoingo: The problem is the thing being modeled, hence the bounty
asciilifeform: !up solrodar
solrodar: you can get dot to lay the graph out from top to bottom rather than left to right, but it won't be any better
asciilifeform: wasn't the idea
asciilifeform: idea is, to make the text sit down at whatever angle is needed
asciilifeform: 31 degrees if need be
asciilifeform: or 5
asciilifeform: to maximize space for the arrows.
asciilifeform: and other thing, if a node is a leaf of only one stem, it should be right next to it
asciilifeform: and not half the page away.
asciilifeform: there is room for this to be the case everywhere.
solrodar: yeah, I don't know why it doesn't always do that
solrodar: it's clearly doing it in some places
asciilifeform: because the tool is retarded
asciilifeform: i can use that tool too, you know.
asciilifeform: i don't need the garbage that comes out of codeviz or those other 3
asciilifeform: i need a usable graph
asciilifeform: this is probably more than 1 btc worth of work
asciilifeform: and so i'm not holding my breath waiting for it to get done by anybody.
solrodar: looks that way
solrodar: so if I provide the graph in s-expression format with instructions, do you have any specific plan for visualizing it?
solrodar: or you just want the data to experiment?
asciilifeform: data.
asciilifeform: but not only it, but a complete recipe whereby i can regenerate it.
solrodar: of course
asciilifeform: solrodar: might wanna ask mircea_popescu if he will award the prize for this item, which is not what he asked for, before putting in serious effort
solrodar: at this stage the only extra effort is to output it in sexpr format rather than dot format
solrodar: I'm already pulling the graph into a script to do some filtering
asciilifeform: neat.
BingoBoingo wonders how his 0.7.2 qt build ever worked on OpenBSD
asciilifeform: thank you for the effort, solrodar
solrodar: because if you include all the low-level functions and bignum classes and so forth in the graph then it'll be 10 times worse
asciilifeform: eheheheeh wat
asciilifeform: these are missing?!!!
asciilifeform: then entirely useless
asciilifeform: i want every token
asciilifeform: in *.cpp and *.h
asciilifeform: in that tree.
solrodar: you can have every token
asciilifeform: gotta have those.
solrodar: including std:: and boost::
asciilifeform: how did you even choose what to exclude ?
solrodar: just remove the filters
asciilifeform: where did the filter come from ?
solrodar: started with the standard library
solrodar: then cut out nodes with very high in-degree which appeared to be low-level functions
punkman: btw aren't all those stacked "using namespace std;" "using namespace boost;" statements a bad idea?
asciilifeform: would like a way of adjusting this
solrodar: yeah, it's just a list of regexes, you can change them as you like
asciilifeform: ok
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:17; mircea_popescu: owner of node may choose to depend on it
BingoBoingo: solrodar: If your recipe works a narrative of it could be welcome qntra material
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:23; mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.
solrodar: the one thing which is missing which you asked for is virtual function calls, which are only used in the keystore base class
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193951 << it's why they produce incompatible ones regularly. because no way to know if it happened or not yet, save for passage of time ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:19:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.
solrodar: they don't appear to be in the clang output
asciilifeform: solrodar: your tool doesn't see virtual functions ?
solrodar: it sees their implementations but it doesn't see calls to them via the virtual lookup mechanism
asciilifeform: solrodar: and how do you know that they are only used in keystore base class ?
solrodar: grep virtual *.h :)
asciilifeform: fair enough.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people' ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:32:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.
scoopbot_revived: S.MPOE: Trader's Delight. http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/08/s-mpoe-traders-delight/
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what << How often? A minute over a century and ignoring should be fine
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and if they decide that 'national s33k0000r1ty' requires a leap week ?
asciilifeform: to thwart 'financial terrorizm!!!1111'
asciilifeform: (aka bitcoin use)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The time nerds burn the... Well QuickTrip and CVS were done so I guess WalMart
solrodar: !rate ben_vulpes 1 welcomed me to #b-a
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c4aa8cc715c6d75
asciilifeform: !rate solrodar 1 flow graphs
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ebf2651b9eb17fd5
solrodar: !v assbot:solrodar.rate.ben_vulpes.1:be7ce5a08c6698de2492a0c464338aa0a12c9c6070b6d7a9a6feffbe27ef763a
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for ben_vulpes with note: welcomed me to #b-a
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.solrodar.1:0a8d0ab5914fc2d41371f84fe250e40f9eab92aab2afdf54f7774066895e50c5
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: flow graphs
BingoBoingo: Leapweek would purely put USG time in the realm of clearly fiat time
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it was always fiat time
asciilifeform: just as argentine peso was fiat when it was still worth real money
asciilifeform: we haven't invented non-fiat time yet
BingoBoingo: Yes, even with the Romans fiat time. But poerverted like now dollar fiat time. At present still enjoy 1934 dollar fiat time
asciilifeform: (yes, decimation will teach you to tell epoch time within +/1 1000 by using the stars and moon. that does not change the essence of the fact that global epoch synchronized by machines is a fiat - specifically usg - creature)
decimation: asciilifeform: how is 'mean solar day is split into two parts; divided into 24 peices' fiat time?
decimation: you were the one arguing to ditch leap seconds
asciilifeform: it is fiat if i can't see the sun and rely on the kind to tell me
asciilifeform: *king
decimation: okay.
BingoBoingo: As far as I can tell time does not exist other than as a projection perpetrated by the brain
asciilifeform: this is a subtle point, granted
asciilifeform: and i don't expect everyone to grasp it immediately
decimation: time is absolute, space squishes and streches to nail to its strictures
decimation: asciilifeform: what does 'time outside of humanity' even mean?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Astronomical time is probelematic in that we do not know if LizardHitler mothership can subtly tow sun a few miles or give the moon a push
decimation: sure, he could do that
asciilifeform: decimation: 'outside of humanity' is a tall order. and not what anybody was asking for
asciilifeform: just needs to be 'outside' to the same extent bitcoin is (or naively appears to be)
asciilifeform: that is, massively resistant to organized diddling
decimation: what's the use of 'bitcoin outside of humanity'
asciilifeform: !s martian bank
assbot: 6 results for 'martian bank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=martian+bank
decimation: even martians could live with a 24-hour earth day
decimation: 'dude just tell us how to set our clocks'
asciilifeform: because they can all see the sun
asciilifeform: and feel its warmth
asciilifeform: but say they lived underground, and could not.
asciilifeform: the sun is almost literally blinding decimation, making the problem look far easier than it actually is for us
asciilifeform: pogo cannot see the sun!
decimation: aye, that's a problem
decimation: but quite separate than 'we depend on time'
asciilifeform: it cannot see the moon, or the stars
decimation: I guess I just can't see 'we need to sun' to be a huge limitation on any human endeavour
asciilifeform: in so far as you, i, and every other fella on the net wants to know 'what second' it is 'right now', we are dealing in usgtronics
asciilifeform: because there is no other known way to do it
asciilifeform: within any kind of serious accuracy
decimation: yes, but that's conditional
decimation: and we don't need serious accuracy
decimation: +/- 5 min would be fine
decimation: or even more
asciilifeform: actually we do
asciilifeform: because drift
decimation: easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon
asciilifeform: long enough at +/- 5m and we get >2h off
asciilifeform: and it's game over.
decimation: yeah but these aren't launching into space
asciilifeform: they sorta are.
decimation: can emerge, get reset
asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates
decimation: well, if that were a hard spec I would agree, need txco or ocxo
decimation: and there's no way around it, if actual human cannot set
williamdunne: From the looks of things, S.MPOE used to have a thousand BTC or so volume per day
williamdunne: Pretty solid
decimation: or we cannot build a trusted network of time sources
asciilifeform: my argument was that this apparently-unsolvable problem can be solved
asciilifeform: if a certain constraint is loosenes
decimation: you mean modifying the bitcoind to accept wider windows of blocks?
BingoBoingo: <decimation> easily achieved with stopwatch and gnomon << This leads you to my world, where my mechinical autowinding watch is always perfectly accurate because I declare it so
asciilifeform: to have the concept of difficulty, nodes only need to know that time has passed, using a timebase that 1) is independent variable from aggregate hash 2) is prohibitively expensive to manipulate
decimation: BingoBoingo: can you use your winding to predict the sunrise
asciilifeform: i possibly have a scheme for this. but it won't help pogo, because this is no longer bitcoin
asciilifeform: right now i don't know how to help the pogo problem.
mats: recently S.MPOE has stood still
decimation: asciilifeform: you do, it involves hardware
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al were contemplating a surrender to ntp even.
mats: its a real bummer
decimation: unless you just want to give into ntp
BingoBoingo: decimation: Realtive to UTC, yes. I live about a minute in a half to UTC's future
asciilifeform: decimation: adding any hardware at all will raise the cost to where we no longer have anything over the phoundation.
asciilifeform: and their standard x86 turd boards.
decimation: well, if that's a hard spec, and 'launch into space' is a hard spec, the project is a failure
decimation: unless you are willing to accept the risk of a global ntp/router delay attack
BingoBoingo: to the extent ntp is depended upon by other implementations, it seems ntp servers may need to be polled. If they need to be polled the prolly ought to be polled at arc4random() intervals selecting arc4random() out of the pool each go
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my concern was blackholing
decimation: BingoBoingo: ascii's argument is that method is defeated if enemy controlls isp
BingoBoingo: Serious concern
asciilifeform: where every single ntp query gets picked up by your isp and replaced.
asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done
asciilifeform: it's a cheap bullet with our name on it
shinohai: T_T
decimation: I dispuse the 'nothing but pogo would fail'
decimation: plenty of shit is poorly engineered into depending on that kind of stuff
asciilifeform: say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past
BingoBoingo: Only way to truly defeat ISP is mock over the horizon radar which can force PCB to recieve all data as an involuntary antenna.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past << Burn a Walmart
asciilifeform: eventually pogo drifts off into neverneverland
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you won't know that you have segmented into a parallel universe
asciilifeform: not like pogo has a screen, where it tells you that it is (or is not) receiving valid blocks
asciilifeform: for that matter, 'you' may be one of mircea_popescu's pogopregnated chixxx
asciilifeform: and have no idea what a block is.
asciilifeform: or what that box he plugged into your wall is for
BingoBoingo: Perhaps L1 and L2 pogo impregnators should herd the impregnated pogos
asciilifeform: all ~100 of us ?
asciilifeform: lol
decimation: no just pogo but all ntp clients
decimation: and such an error, if it ends up driving the clock off by several minutes, would be detectable in a variety of ways
asciilifeform: how?
BingoBoingo: NBC
asciilifeform: detecting an off clock requires another
decimation: well, predicting sunrise for one
BingoBoingo: ABC, FOX, et al
asciilifeform: again with the sun and stars
decimation: some other isp client finds his computer is 'off'
asciilifeform: again with the human eyes and hands.
asciilifeform: i specified a problem. what is the point of saying 'no, let's solve this other trivial problem'
decimation: your scenario would imply that no human looks at the time served by said isp
asciilifeform: i already know how to do that.
decimation: I'm emphasizing the sun because that's the policy by which time is defined
decimation: usg didn't make this policy any more than england did
asciilifeform: sure
decimation: and usg fucking with the way computers distribute time would ultimately be noticed by some innocent bystander
asciilifeform: but we don't have a mechanism of syncing n-bit counters with second resolution across a planet that ~doesn't~ operate at hitler's pleasure.
decimation: don't need second resolution
asciilifeform: decimation: one very obvious way for it to fuck, and be noticed, is to simply fail
decimation: as in, terminate all ntp services?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: from lack of money to pay the electric bill, say.
decimation: I would also note that if the pogo clock varies in a systematic way (constant frequency error)
decimation: it could be corrected
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, it does not.
asciilifeform: and the reason is no mystery
asciilifeform: (interrupts vary quite unpredictably)
decimation: yeah, makes sens
decimation: so if the pogo syncs to a random node once per month and keeps time within a few minutes, it'll be fine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31452 @ 0.00057008 = 17.9302 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: is it vulnerable? yes. more vulnerable than proof-of-work? yes, if in the hands of an idiot
asciilifeform: random node ?
asciilifeform: which also gets to drift ?
decimation: ntp node
decimation: most ntp nodes are tracable to some source (yes often usg) to two layers
decimation: but that usg clock is depended on by and awful lot of shit
decimation: if usg starts messing with gps it would be quickly noticed and shouted at
asciilifeform: decimation: there is no reason why ~all~ ntp servers proper would have to be diddled
asciilifeform: just the queries from known bitcoin nodes
asciilifeform: incl pogo
asciilifeform: not like it's a secret who they are.
decimation: agreed, but to selectively fuck with known bitcoin nodes would imply the deployment of an awful lot of hardware and expertise globally
asciilifeform: tomorrow hitler says 'anybody talking on 8333 gets timewarped'
asciilifeform: won't affect anything else.
decimation: hitler spends $100 mil to do it?
asciilifeform: it's deployed!
asciilifeform: already!
asciilifeform: srsly
asciilifeform: what do you suppose 'narus' makes ?
decimation: you think you could call up your local comcastic office, pretend to be hitler, and demand that a particular protocol be selectively fucked with?
asciilifeform: you - no
asciilifeform: the folks with the key to room 641a - yes
decimation: that's one chokepoint
asciilifeform: they don't work for crapcast either
asciilifeform: they come and go when they want.
decimation: no reason your ntp query need cross it
asciilifeform: it is merely an example
asciilifeform: of how it is done
decimation: yes, and I"m sure it's not cheap
decimation: nor easily mass deployed
asciilifeform: there is a 'room 641a' at every single major infrastructural junction
asciilifeform: certainly in nato-reich
decimation: not every isp office
asciilifeform: and similar in ru, cn
asciilifeform: every backbone.
decimation: so, don't cross backbones
decimation: or, cross several
asciilifeform: and the argument that some backwards isp, somewhere, may not be 'up to date', does not sway me.
BingoBoingo: I guess Bitcoin builds an Argentina, Phillipines, somolia, ISIS backbone and moves geographically
decimation: but your 'fucked with at the isp level' argument falls apart in that case
asciilifeform: at what level the fucking will be done, is debatable
asciilifeform: but that it is doable, and trivial, and can be carried out in such a way as to affect only known bitcoin nodes, seems obvious to me
decimation: I would agree that if the pogo needs to be launched into space, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it knew where it was on the internet topology, especially relative to other bitcoin nodes
decimation: asciilifeform: it's possible but again it requires expertise and equipment
decimation: comcast can barely keeps the lights running
asciilifeform: comcast - sure
asciilifeform: upstream - no
asciilifeform: and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in
asciilifeform: no imagination needed
asciilifeform: just mutilate packets if regexp matches.
decimation: what usg agency would perform this work domestically?
asciilifeform: at&t.
decimation: they ain't gonna do it for free
decimation: and 'fucking with bitcoin' is probably pretty low on usg's hitlist (not that it should be so low)
asciilifeform: how the hell would i (or anyone else) know where it is on what list ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's intel dept. - possibly
asciilifeform: me? no
asciilifeform: but i don't get to say 'it's low on the list, let's all sleep'
BingoBoingo: I doubt that after today. After the Chicom stockmarket sell embargo and NYSE glitch
decimation: neither do I. but assuming the pogo isn't a complete bust, someone's gonna have to evaluate the risk
asciilifeform: my point is that this kind of attack is not only the kind of thing usg specializes in, but pretty much the only thing they know how to do at all
decimation: how would you know that, if you don't know the hitlist
asciilifeform: can't know. only conjecture.
asciilifeform: based on existing nonsense coming out of the we-don't-know-how-to-break-rsa-yet-agency
asciilifeform: no idea what the ~other~ nsa does
asciilifeform: that gun hasn't publicly fired yet.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00056898 = 6.2588 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193991 << was linked as 'entomological sample' ! specifically, example of folks 'spinning their wheels' ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:39:06; mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.
asciilifeform: i bet if some helpful fella gave them a few kg of plastique each, they would put it to good use...
asciilifeform: just as mr stack probably would have
asciilifeform: and what, precisely, ought one expect of folks raised in a zoo?
asciilifeform: how do lions in the zoo get things, other than being 'given' ?
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188651 < a map that demonstrates your point: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/07/mapping-the-us-by-property-value-instead-of-land-area/397841/ ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 21:44:22; mircea_popescu: that's really the tension here : usians currently use the us like inept argentines: they huddle around the coast and pull their cocks.
assbot: A Map of the U.S. by Property Value Instead of Land Area - CityLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1TmJRPW )
asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.
decimation: "The total value of all the residential property in Kentucky ($300 billion) falls just short of the value of all the housing property in Queens ($317 billion). The housing value of the Upper East Side all by itself is greater than that of six states."
asciilifeform: hence folks live there.
decimation: aye
asciilifeform: it hands it out there for historical reasons (it is where the majority of the chump candidates live, given as that is where the anthill mega-cities are found)
asciilifeform: on account of having been built there back when actual honest commerce was a thing
asciilifeform: but point of fact is, to ~me~ kentucky may as well be pluto
asciilifeform: and to everyone i know.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Too be fair Kentucky isn't "flat" enough for intentive Monsanto'ing
decimation: asciilifeform: it's actually a pretty nice place
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: pluto is nice too, i hear
asciilifeform: in its own way
decimation: nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country'
BingoBoingo: Kentucky is beautiful. Like Southern Illinois, but entirely politically divorced from Chicago aside from Obola
asciilifeform: because it is.
asciilifeform: because wtf can you live on there.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country' << I prefer this arrangement
asciilifeform: that's what 'foreign country' even ~means~, historically
asciilifeform: that one is not wanted there.
asciilifeform: kentucky, or argentina, etc, literally don't need me in particular for anything but 'weight in pork'
asciilifeform: if that.
asciilifeform: doesn't mean that i dislike those places, or their inhabitants
asciilifeform: ar, in particular, i liked very much.
asciilifeform: and the inhabitants.
decimation: yeah, I get it, the meatwot is important
decimation: also being within 'reasonable transport' distance of good food, places of learning, etc
decimation: I predict that if the 'hyperloop' actually works (dubious) it would rot the suburbs around megacities
decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes
decimation: if not farther
decimation: !up The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: It's alive!
williamdunne: What's alive?
The20YearIRCloud: Boy I had a crappy day, one of the renters called me and nothing would drain. Only to find out they've been parking a car on the main drain line. I offered to go out rather than my crew to take care of it, 3hrs later and $400 we've determined that it's all due to someone parking on the drain line and actually pushing it out of the fittings.
The20YearIRCloud: The chat!
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: these drains are made of rubber ?!
Vexual: u charged 400?
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: how is it even physically possible ?
asciilifeform: i, for instance, park on top of my house's drain pipe every single day.
decimation: yeah, like did they forget to use pvc cement?
The20YearIRCloud: loose soil, 3000lbs car sitting on it ~10hrs/day
asciilifeform: i know where it is, because the city excavated it last year.
asciilifeform: it is two metres under the asphalt.
asciilifeform: ah
The20YearIRCloud: there was a 8ft PVC section between two clay drain sections
The20YearIRCloud: This was 4ft under soil
decimation: clay drain? Like terra cotta?
The20YearIRCloud: yep
The20YearIRCloud: 110 year old drain
asciilifeform: where was this? africa ?
decimation: lul
The20YearIRCloud: still works somewhat well, but parking on it certainly hasn't helped things
The20YearIRCloud: Part of that $400 was to have a guy come out with a camera and inspect the line
Vexual: plus cakes for you while u lurk?
decimation: the 'loose soil' must be underneath the pipe
decimation: I would guess the drain is eroding the surrounding soil
The20YearIRCloud: Quite possibly, there's a concrete walkway that's actually sunk down about 6"
decimation: lul
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194417 << remember how the spiel went when the highways were built ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 02:22:22; decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes
Vexual: is it being dug up now?
decimation: asciilifeform: except the highways were ultimately not built
asciilifeform: the only thing new infrastructure is used for, in usa, is to pack in more chumps for same kind of life.
asciilifeform: there will simply be more folks who get to drive the obligatory 1-2 hr
decimation: md 200 should be a full freeway, connect with 95 on at least two other river crossings
asciilifeform: and if it were ?
asciilifeform: they'd just put 2x as many 500k houses in.
decimation: asciilifeform: yes but I'm convinced the reason that people live 2 hours away is because of zoning policy
decimation: could easily fit the entire metro area's population inside the beltway (affordably) if you could build 50 story highrises
decimation: but there's this weird need to have 'own country estate' in the us
asciilifeform: not weird at all
asciilifeform: ~i~ want to put as much distance as possible between own arse and these folks.
asciilifeform: it makes god's own sense to me
asciilifeform: that they would feel same way.
decimation: actually I agree with you, I feel the same way to some degree
decimation: my theory is that the space you had as a child 'imprints'
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: city kid can live in apartment for life
decimation: suburb kid needs a suburb
The20YearIRCloud: Not all people are like that, in Columbus they're building lots of 30-40 story apartments because people want em
asciilifeform: i grew up in a city
The20YearIRCloud: They're relatively cheap - $150k-$200k in really well-to-do areas, people want em because they're in the middle of everything and cheap
asciilifeform: but it had almost no traffic
Vexual: opposition leader is explaining to the royal commission here on tv, how to build roads that don't need fixing all the time
The20YearIRCloud: But personally, I'd never want to live there
asciilifeform: so traffic noises drive me batshit
asciilifeform: as do screaming morons
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: yeah but in columbus at least it is legal to build more than 5 stories
asciilifeform: we didn't have those, either
The20YearIRCloud: Correct, why it's cheap
trinque: I spent time on a large farm as a kid, cannot stand the population density of cities
trinque: so naturally I live in one
The20YearIRCloud: I can't wait to go back to a farm setting
trinque: just the background noise is irritating, like living in an engine room
The20YearIRCloud: Yeah
The20YearIRCloud: I don't like that, but i REALLY don't like not being able to stand on the back porch and not see anything
decimation: but this means that there are probably many people who are 'trapped' - desire more space between themselves and others - but cannot move away in order to keep a job
The20YearIRCloud: As it stands now ,if I do that here I see tall grass, a trailer, a half plywood house, then a large agricultural facility
trinque: The20YearIRCloud: ah man, best thing in the world is to not see another human in any direction
decimation: 70-80% of the population in cities ?
trinque: but to each his own
asciilifeform: what trinque said
The20YearIRCloud: Off the back porch on the farm, the closest house was 2mi
asciilifeform: except that i also want to not have to see them ever
decimation: asciilifeform: you should buy a farm in kentucky
asciilifeform: that sounds like actual work
asciilifeform: fuck that
The20YearIRCloud: We have areas here in ohio that have less population than many in kentucky
decimation: go 'full perelman'
asciilifeform: perelman, as i understand, lives off his mother's pension.
trinque: I'm thinking getting some land in Washington state might be ideal
decimation: trinque: not west of the mountains?
trinque: close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it
decimation: !up warptangent
decimation: !up Vexual
trinque: decimation: not sure, I've yet to spend time east of them
trinque: maybe there's something nice down 90 waiting for me
phf: i lived 8 hours north of anchorage for 6 months or so, working remote. when i get out of the house in the morning my ears would heart from the silence. best 6 months of my life
asciilifeform: ^
trinque: sounds lovely.
The20YearIRCloud: hurt or heart?
The20YearIRCloud: Silence? No wind or animals?
trinque: and the concentration that can be mustered (in my case at least) cannot be matched inside the engine room
phf: The20YearIRCloud: after a bit your start hearing the trees lightly creaking in the wind
The20YearIRCloud: I know on the farm it wasn't really ever quiet, there was always something
The20YearIRCloud: but going from that to the city is very, very hard
asciilifeform: another device that did not exist in the city where i grew up was: the subwoofer
trinque: sure, wind, bugs
trinque: but things your mind is quite used to
decimation: asciilifeform: especially mobile ones?
asciilifeform: any kind
phf: The20YearIRCloud: this was on denali highway which is a kind of a wind tunnel nearby from a glacier. most of it is freezing all the way till mid summer (though i don't know, i spent a winter there)
decimation has subwoofers, but attenuates by 30 dB at least
trinque: as opposed to the hiss of hydraulic brakes, blare of horns, rumble of combustion engines
decimation: I find it really annoying to have muddled bass
Vexual: alf had a crystal set
trinque: bugs I can tune out easily
asciilifeform: it isn't even that su didn't know how to make loudspeakers
asciilifeform: but that the idea of turning one on inside a block of flats...
phf: The20YearIRCloud: but when the wind dies down (mornings mostly) it's what i would call dignified solitude. mountains, quiet. lots of interesting people living within 100 mile range :>
The20YearIRCloud: hmm
Vexual: for a day of funk phreakers blowing holes in speakers, a discussion on silence is delicious
phf: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rw9Z6h3DDMo/TrTY5FJydDI/AAAAAAAAG4Y/m-uVqliksdA/s1600/denali%2Bhwy-6.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dNhE4G )
Vexual: you'd notice a bear from miles away
Vexual: and the inverse i guess
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193778 << the going rate in that market is a few hundred. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:42:45; bagels7: i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis
mircea_popescu: an' for that matter the "basis" doesn't work like you imagine it does.
Vexual: hey funk i saw clinton play, guy made ozone, ya could smell it
phf: Vexual: kodiak bears stay away mostly. sometimes you get teenage bears looking for trouble, but i've only heard second hand stories
Vexual: what happenis if theres a bear looking for trouble? do you run away?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193856 << yeah lol, that'll work better than befoar. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:13:37; ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball
phf: bear mace :)
Vexual: kinda short range ??
phf: that specific breed of bears is tame. mostly you spook them and they run away, or you stay and wait for them to sniff and leave. after a few encounters like that the idea of macing a bear from close range doesn't seem particularly disconcerting
funkenstein_: Vexual, awesome :) where was the show?
Vexual: bluesfest byron bay
funkenstein_: were you singing?
Vexual: no, i din't even yell out
funkenstein_: lol yeah right
funkenstein_: this year?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193867 >> pretty much. reddit being shut out of bitcoin is a sign of bitcoin working correctly. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
Vexual: few years back, i forget
mircea_popescu: reddit then creating a new dogecoin to serve its perceived needs is a sign of reddit staying reddit, which is top say fucktarded and unable to learn from its mistakes.
mircea_popescu: this is a necessity, given that reddit simply is "that collection of people at the age and level of stupidity of a redditard"
mircea_popescu: so, whatever, dogecon, keisercoin, auroracoin, gavincoin, blablacoin, let the kids have fun
funkenstein_: better than playing video games
funkenstein_: well, mostly ;)
mircea_popescu: the shitty videogames they have now, for sure.
mircea_popescu: also better than watching vr mj or whatever it is emi puts out
funkenstein_: reminds me, showed girl b-a channel yesterday. respones, wow cool.. people chat online who aren't just trying to get laid?
mircea_popescu: lol how did she meet you ?
funkenstein_: er, you got me there
mircea_popescu: who else has she met ? :D
funkenstein_: one never knows, could be more but not so few as indicating severe problems
mod6: height=363734 << wedged here for ~2 hours.
mod6: I don't see any attempt to reorg... but i'm gonna increase the db locks * 2 and see if that changes anything.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194085 << svg is svg yo. not had to fix that part ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 00:53:52; asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.
mircea_popescu: mod6 iirc asciilifeform saw the same wedge spot for a bit.
mod6: yeah, im fairly sure that he did.
mod6: asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194155 << unreliably. maybe they decide to stop. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:17:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what
mircea_popescu: this is a power not to be neglected in the slightest.
mircea_popescu: it already allows me to publicly mock all sorts of traditional power structures, reject nist, what have you.
decimation: wait, to be anti-leap second is to be pro-'usg controls time'
decimation: the policy becomes 'time is what my clock in my fortress says' not 'what the sun does'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194169 << i didn't misunderstand it. i simply do not credit it at all, just like i don't credit that an object could be arbitrarily pink but shapeless. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:22:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'
mircea_popescu: decimation there is no "sun does" immediately. sun doesn't. what there is, is, "here's what i say the sun does".
decimation: umm okay
mircea_popescu: the original leap second is http://trilema.com/2015/this-is-why-medicine-is-not-a-liberal-profession-but-a-servile-career/#selection-229.0-229.213
assbot: This is why medicine is not a liberal profession, but a servile career on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2i8dP )
BingoBoingo: <trinque> close enough to drive to seattle shortly, but far enough to not know it << I would not mind life in Duquoin Illinois if I could support myself there. Trains to Chicago and St Louis, bars walkable. Secondary State Fair. Just everything else... ick
decimation: the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun
funkenstein_: the concept of "fiat time" is interesting. If we are going to think about what is money ourselves instead of believing the guy in the funny hat, should we also do the same when asked what time it is?
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ turtles all the way down.
decimation: funkenstein_: sure, but note that humanity has a pretty solid informal standard going, has for a long time
mircea_popescu: decimation if this facetious "precision" were the point, it wouldn't be t here and t+1 hour a km away.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194574 << moved the clock. hence the clock thread. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:17:08; mod6: asciilifeform: what did you do to bypass this, i thought i read you reconnected with -addnode or did you just /wait/ for a long period?
mircea_popescu: it's not precision. it's political influence.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << the going rate in that market is a few hundred. << I read the original message as hope for a winning "ticket"
decimation: okay, if it's political influence, what's the policy?
mircea_popescu: there is no policy.
mircea_popescu: "do what we tell you - it's a useful habit for later"
funkenstein_: decimation, not really.. the adjustments are to sync the cycles together
mircea_popescu: it is. just, wrong source.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194577 << if mircea_popescu has figured out how to 'reject usg time', i'm all ears. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:18:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194158 << bitcoin actually has enough power structure to enforce a uniform rejection of usg leap second.
decimation: funkenstein_: you mean leap seconds?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if bitcoin nodes agree to any different time, it's rejected.
asciilifeform: how are they to agree ?
mircea_popescu: again, the possibility is here more important than the actuality.
funkenstein_: yeah. the mayans had a better system
mircea_popescu: never you mind.
asciilifeform: we haven't invented the mechanism !
asciilifeform: 'if enemy comes, we will shoot him with death ray'
decimation: funkenstein_: you are confusing calendar and clock
asciilifeform: 'what death ray'
mircea_popescu: you've just described "atomic balance"
mircea_popescu: or w/e it's called.
asciilifeform: i described the 'death ray balance' envisioned by tesla.
asciilifeform: who, as far as we know, did not actually have a working electron cannon
asciilifeform: but 'so close' in his own mind.
BingoBoingo notes that in most client software not handling leap seconds seems safe http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150628132834
assbot: Handling Leap Seconds the OpenBSD Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2iq4n )
mircea_popescu: no, the thing they spent a trillion to build missiles and subs
decimation: there are three important periodic behaviours. the orbit of the earth about the sun, (lesser - moon about the earth), the rotation of the earth about its axis, and the vibration of cesium atoms. leap seconds syncronise earth's rotation with cesium. calendar synchronizes earth's rotation with its orbit
BingoBoingo: <decimation> the only reason leap seconds are even a thing is because clocks have become more precise than the sun << No, it is because Sun and Cesium disagree
asciilifeform: decimation: vibrations of atom don't come with indices. nor do sunrises.
asciilifeform: is this such a difficult concept ?
decimation: nope, nor do years
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: it's not to me
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194235 << i really don't think that's the primary mission for it ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:34:14; asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates
funkenstein_: decimation, you miss the long cycle, but thanks for the distinction between leap second and leap year
decimation: yet, I can use cesium to predict sunrises and use sunrises to predict cesium
asciilifeform: i must confess that i'm not 100% clear on the primary mission. but did have the distinct impression that it involves making use of net jacks that don't have literate and attentive humans attached to them
mircea_popescu: the idea was to make use of net jacks in people's houses
mircea_popescu: ~people~s.
decimation: if we were to ditch leap seconds, I would need to know the 'current delta' to predict cesium from sunrises and vice versa
BingoBoingo watches "Gladiator(2000)" for the first time. Damn the Nordic system sucks.
mircea_popescu: "so you'd like to learn more about bitcoin ? here's a pogo and here's a webpage, make it work"
asciilifeform: and what of cuckoldry ?
asciilifeform: ethernet jack in broom closet ?
decimation: "Step one: configure an accurate ntp server. if you don't know how to check the time, ask your parents"
asciilifeform: that's where $20 pogo really shines
asciilifeform head-desks
decimation: or alternatively "Step one: after booting, ensure the pogo has acquired accurate time"
decimation: asciilifeform does have a good point, it seems like a 'sealed system' would have a wider application
asciilifeform: the ~only~ advantage pogo has over pc
asciilifeform: is that you can stuff it in broom closet, camouflage with old bum rags, get on motorcycle and never see the place again.
decimation: better yet, build one in the shape of a power strip (with wifi) and install in local starbucks
asciilifeform: sorta like what aaron swartz went around doing before he was hanged
asciilifeform: decimation: no upnp in starbucks
asciilifeform: gotta have that external 8333
decimation: yeah that's a major sticking point
decimation: upnp hardly works anywhere
decimation: other than as an orifice
asciilifeform: the most problematic aspect, possibly
asciilifeform: i suspect that perhaps 1 in 5 pogos will actually run
asciilifeform: solely on account of this
decimation: you might be able to hijack "STUN" servers meant for sip
decimation: but they might only tunnel udp
asciilifeform: lol, fat lot of good that does.
BingoBoingo: By argument via Hollywood /me has no idea how Romans beat Spartans to conquer Greece
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12812 @ 0.00056898 = 7.2898 BTC [-]
decimation: http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/interactive-connectivity-establishment
assbot: Interactive Connectivity Establishment | Internet Society ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cqdong )
decimation: https://code.google.com/p/rfc5766-turn-server/
assbot: rfc5766-turn-server - High-performance free open source TURN and STUN Server implementation. VoIP media traffic NAT traversal and gateway. TURN client library included. - Google Project Hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqdsDz )
decimation: ^ would create a choke point of course
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i said, this wasn't to my mind related to the p2p relay thing
asciilifeform: umm let's ~not~ tunnel through microshit ??
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha i know
mircea_popescu: we will never have enough of these to simply throw away either
mircea_popescu: you realise
asciilifeform: throw away, no
mircea_popescu: this is a $100 dollar gift, why make it to idiots.
asciilifeform: deploy in places where pc cannot work - yes
mircea_popescu: well, an item has the advantage that it can be used as it can be used, rather than as can be intended.
asciilifeform: also 'never say never'
mircea_popescu: but the idea throughout, at least in my head, was to have something to give new bloods
asciilifeform: at some point i ~will~ locate the pieces to make something like pogo en masse
asciilifeform: hell, 'hootoo' would be it right now if we could sit down in 32m.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194264 << eh get out. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:40:33; asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done
asciilifeform: i'll bite. what else will perma-wedge if usg clock moves 2h into the past for a day ?
asciilifeform: it can be passed off as 'botched daylight savings' in my locale
decimation: bank, local merchant shop cash register, games, winblowz, local govt, etc
asciilifeform: winblows - reboot as always
decimation: and that's the unimportant shit
asciilifeform: merchant shop - fails every other day
mircea_popescu: decimation: what usg agency would perform this work domestically? asciilifeform:at&t. << top kek
decimation: what do trains, planes rely on?
asciilifeform: all of it is reparable because it customarily breaks every morning six times before breakfast
asciilifeform: like all of fiatworld
asciilifeform: esp on winblowz
mircea_popescu: you're moving your goalposts asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: yes the shop fails every other day.
mircea_popescu: it still would fail.
asciilifeform: btw this is not uncommon where i live
asciilifeform: quite often 'creditcard machine ain't working today. but we dusted off this carbon paper and press...'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @ 0.00056898 = 5.0571 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194389 << argentine govt does exactly same stupid failure mode bs ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 02:13:37; asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.
asciilifeform: at any rate, down in the log, i point out that it would be absolutely trivial to serve diddled ntp solely to known btc nodess.
mircea_popescu: borrows in europe, distributes loot to people in capital
asciilifeform: where else? in pampas, to the pampas cats?
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do these schmucks need as much as a cigarette butt ?
mircea_popescu: give it to the people going deeply inside.
decimation: I think "absolutely trivial" is a bit of an overstatement
mircea_popescu: that way you won't lose wars with fucking peri
mircea_popescu: peru*
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. like the us did it back when it mattered.
mircea_popescu: 50 acres and a mule, if you swear to never go to town
asciilifeform: that was before monsanto and winblowz-traktor
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: they wanna be independent
mircea_popescu: and "patria doesn't give blowjobs" bs
decimation: those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today
mircea_popescu: one of the lulziest electroal slogans here (in the line of "podremos vivir mejor", of course) was... "hay mas futuro"
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: hipster country.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck even comes up with this shit. "there's future left"
decimation: sounds like an obamaism
asciilifeform: 'no there isn't'
decimation: "we are the ones we have been waiting for"
decimation: "things are getting better comrades"
mircea_popescu: "that's not the plumber in your mother's bedroom"
mircea_popescu: actually this could be a film.
asciilifeform: http://image1.thematicnews.com/uploads/topics/preview/00/01/24/91/a5825d35bb.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D2jLbs )
decimation: asciilifeform: what does it say?
asciilifeform: 'living's become better, living's become merrier'
asciilifeform: famously attributed to stalin circa '37
decimation: heh yeah
mircea_popescu: well... keynesian logic. if consumption drives production then clearly the economy's never been ion a better shape
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194583 << would like to see this expanded if mircea_popescu has time. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 03:21:46; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194169 << i didn't misunderstand it. i simply do not credit it at all, just like i don't credit that an object could be arbitrarily pink but shapeless.
asciilifeform bbl
Vexual: so if we have sealevel sattelites that don't move...
BingoBoingo: Fuck, in Gladiator (2000) there are plain tire tracks on the cravel roads
Vexual: !g filipino black eyed peas
Vexual: ;;g filipino
gribble: Error: "g" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> those 50 acres are either owned by monsanto or abandoned today << Please point me to 50 US acres that are truly abadon. No "owner" no renter, no Sheriff.
Vexual: you mean like a cinemagraphical error?
BingoBoingo: Especially the last point because sheriff usually enforces abadon remaining verboten
BingoBoingo: Vexual: More like lazy cinema
Vexual: the eyes have it
decimation: BingoBoingo: there's plenty of 'wasteland' out west
decimation: but certainly has sheriff
BingoBoingo: WHich is problem. Even if you shoot sheriff, there exists deputy
funkenstein_: sheriff shows up sometime after you put something valuable there
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Nah, they don't want hippies, chase away merely warm bodies
funkenstein_ recalls being woken "can't sleep here" on various travels
BingoBoingo: Anecdotally Urban US squats safer than rural US squats
funkenstein_: read my mind; i was just going to ask about when will squat culture arise
BingoBoingo: Squat conture arised in USia 60 years ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00057357 = 3.212 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: somehow it appears stronger in continental europe
funkenstein_: could also be who i was rolling with at the time
funkenstein_: 1950s eh?
BingoBoingo: Continental Europe had a head start
BingoBoingo: See Christiantown
decimation: I'm watching a youtube of some uk guy who decided to hop freight trains in canada
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FYjiGEtsU
assbot: Brave Dave's Canadian Catch Out - Freight Train Hopping In Canada - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MgHJF2 )
decimation: he decides to be a hobo for fun I guess
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.00057362 = 28.2795 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5589 @ 0.00057586 = 3.2185 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2623&pr=1
assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1eI4MO8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00057586 = 2.8793 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00057778 = 16.1282 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3136 @ 0.00057877 = 1.815 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00056751 = 12.2015 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22641 @ 0.00056664 = 12.8293 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00056072 = 3.0279 BTC [-] {2}
shinohai: https://np.reddit.com/user/Bitcoin_SS <<< rofl this is the funniest shit evah
assbot: overview for Bitcoin_SS ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqIyLv )
punkman: not bad
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:59:04; asciilifeform: and this kind of dull, mechanistic diddlage is precisely what usg specializes in
jurov: shiffing, yes.
jurov: *sniffing
jurov: but actively intercepting and replacing individual packets is much more complicated effort
jurov: so far only china managed that with any degree of success
BingoBoingo: shinohai: If you must link to reddit no np.reddit links, for they are a trap to preserve their platform
jurov: and it needs so much manpower that someone from "terrorist-packets-on-backbone-diddling-dept." would already spill the beans
shinohai: I fergotI forgot i was laughing so hard BingoBoingo
shinohai: It is EXACTLY like them
jurov: say, let's put time.windows.com or google's addy among there and make the occassional packet look like systemd or windows emit
jurov: what is usg to do? risk diddling time on throngs of linux/windows machines?
jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?
jurov: or make buth m$/google move the servers to different IPs? no way that wouldn't get noticed, actually would be useful signal for us
punkman: BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2623&pr=1 << is that part of a series or one-off?
assbot: JL: Being Joe’s Bitch ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqLsQ9 )
BingoBoingo: punkman: Both?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2013 @ 0.00056826 = 1.1439 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056826 = 8.5807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13143 @ 0.00056455 = 7.4199 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/08/silvio-berlusconi-sentenced-to-3-years-for-bribing-italian-senator
assbot: Silvio Berlusconi sentenced to 3 years for bribing Italian senator | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1CqY7mJ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11917 @ 0.00055623 = 6.6286 BTC [-]
punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40689 @ 0.00056581 = 23.0222 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4917 @ 0.00055282 = 2.7182 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.0005789 = 2.5761 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9949 @ 0.00055098 = 5.4817 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48629 @ 0.00054501 = 26.5033 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228440.700-dotdashdiss-the-gentleman-hackers-1903-lulz.html
assbot: Dot-dash-diss: The gentleman hacker's 1903 lulz - tech - 27 December 2011 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaI79R )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055023 = 8.1709 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00054715 = 3.2282 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055492 = 11.2649 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu On Qntra you said, "This is a resource war and you people are poor." Well some poor redditard was venting this morning and in his rage said, "I wish I had the money to...do xyz". Ironic how denial turns to anger, almost like stages of grief.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3cnobx/regarding_raising_the_1mb_block_size_limit_just/ << for those interested in some more "hard fork lulz"
punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."
shinohai: rofl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00056266 = 4.5013 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: yeah because people are gonna stay on your stupid fork of course
punkman: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/bitfury
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhPSrH )
shinohai: np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3cnw86/bitcoiners_throws_temper_tantrum_as_miners_fail/
kakobrekla: 1 hour 52 minutes ago974.7 kB ?
jurov: ;;bc,tslb
gribble: Error: "bc,tslb" is not a valid command.
jurov: ;;tslb
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83123 @ 0.00054175 = 45.0319 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12668 @ 0.00054166 = 6.8617 BTC [-]
punkman: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3co3x5/safello_now_buys_4611_sek_and_sells_at_2388_sek/
assbot: Safello now buys @ 4611 SEK and sells at 2388 SEK per Bitcoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1NR5VOT )
punkman: http://i.imgur.com/PHjb0ah.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NR66d4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4206 @ 0.00054166 = 2.2782 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << 'quantuminsert' and 'ferretcannon', just off the top of my head (from the snowden papers) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?
asciilifeform: iirc there were other 'postbox names' in there, amounting to the same idea
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194795 << feed diddled ntp to ~known public bitcoin nodes~. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:50:06; jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from pogo and which is from other machines?
asciilifeform: it won't happen every day, naturally. just when 'national s333k000r1ty' requires a stinkbomb dropped on the network - to keep a certain tx from getting relayed, say
jurov: how do you know ntp is from the bitcoin node and not from other machine on the same network?
asciilifeform: naturally, you don't
decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/us/south-carolina-representative-jenny-anderson-horne-flag-speech.html < http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-02-2015#1025531 ☝︎
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7gBU )
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 03:34:05; mircea_popescu: In addition, anti-fascism was never to have as cheap as today. Previously, he could cost you your life, today it costs no more than lip service among peers - and heard to this, the exclusive circle of the upright, decent, brave. The fighters against law form the peerage of enlightened society. Or even a shot polemical: Here is an indulgence trade takes place; the moral superiority can be acquired sim
asciilifeform: i can envision other scenarios
jurov: so, instruct chumps "scream if you notice weird time"
asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers
decimation: asciilifeform: read the description of room 641a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
assbot: Room 641A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq7okT )
asciilifeform: jurov: idea is that no one will 'notice weird time', nodes will just silently drift off the network
decimation: reportedly it was a passive beam splitter
decimation: how you gonna delay packets with that
asciilifeform: decimation: i can't comment on what's in the other '641a's.
asciilifeform: or for that matter, in the original
asciilifeform: (today, that is)
jurov: asciilifeform: and my idea is that pogos will be together with other computers behind the NAT
jurov: and these other computers can server as canary, users *do* notice time off by hour
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00054579 = 13.0171 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: jurov: gotta understand, my allergy to ntp is more of a 'reason from causes, not from purposes'-theorem application
asciilifeform: than dread of a specific boojum
jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?
asciilifeform: i believe that it is wrong for a large network of bitcoin nodes to depend on a usg institution.
asciilifeform: i am only dreaming up specifics because asked to
asciilifeform: since everybody seems to insist on doing mental gymnastics to come to peace with using ntp
jurov: and i keep telling you they already do cuz internet *is* usg institution
asciilifeform: once 'gossip' is running, the only thing enemy will be able to do is pull plugs
jurov: jam tomorrow
asciilifeform: so in that sense it is 'usg institution' in exactly the way my house, and my earthly carcass, are
asciilifeform: jurov: the particular example, 'gossip', ~is~ jam tomorrow, yes. but it is possible to run encrypted tunnels of various sorts even today.
asciilifeform: enemy is stuck pulling plugs.
asciilifeform: ntp, on other hand, is a pants-down unauthenticated plaintext (for reasons explained previously, this cannot really be helped)
jurov: we're stuck with ntp since you rejected everything other short of bitcoin reimplementation
jurov: if we agree to ship with pogos also 100 of authed ntp servers, I'm all for it
asciilifeform: jurov: probably
jurov: (provide, i mean)
asciilifeform: gotta think of a way to sanity-check it
jurov: just that in your scenario of hostile isp and everything, they will be yet more easy to block than time.windows.com
asciilifeform: hence sanity-check rather than reliance
jurov: aha
asciilifeform: i've also thought about personally retrofitting the pogos with the crystals
asciilifeform: (it also needs a capacitor or li battery on the power input to the rtc)
asciilifeform: could probably do several hundred in a weekend, if they were sent to me disassembled
asciilifeform: i also learned last night that chinese rtc modules, complete with battery, are about fifty cents in quantity
asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo
asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-New-RTC-DS1302-Real-Time-Clock-Module-For-AVR-ARM-PIC-SMD-Arduino-Y5RP-/311396590299 << example
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gq98dW )
asciilifeform: these clocks would still have to be ~set~, but it can be done en masse, once.
decimation: it could be altuh
decimation: ~.
asciilifeform: ?
decimation: sorry tmux died
asciilifeform: incidentally, if anybody feels up to falling on this grenade with me, please speak up
decimation: asciilifeform: are there specs for the rtc modules? specifically thermal stability?
asciilifeform: decimation: not afaik. probably best to assume the worst.
asciilifeform: but overall i'm much less allergic to the idea of letting ntp adjust a running clock by a percent now and then
asciilifeform: than straight intravenous injection from ntp into a machine with no clock to speak of
decimation: aye
lobbes: heh, we need a b-a factory.
asciilifeform: lobbes: we don't even have a b-a restaurant yet.
kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.
kakobrekla: or the need for one. can service others in yurop i guess.
williamdunne: Cheap Romanian labour for #b-a factory?
punkman: http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/woman-staged-rape-scene-with-knife-vodka-called--/article_9295bdbe-167c-11e5-b6eb-07d1288cc937.html
assbot: Woman staged 'rape' scene with knife, vodka, called 9-1-1, police say - LancasterOnline: Local News ... ( http://bit.ly/1fqZ83K )
punkman: "However, a Fitbit device Risley was wearing told a different story, the affidavit shows. The device, which monitors a person’s activity and sleep, showed Risley was awake and walking around at the time she claimed she was sleeping."
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yeawell...
punkman: http://openssl.org/news/secadv_20150709.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MhYXSF )
asciilifeform: punkman: lulziez!
asciilifeform: why is anyone using that thing again...?
mircea_popescu: because bitcoin uses it
asciilifeform: not the cert crud
mircea_popescu: people don't know. "openssl" right ?
mircea_popescu: "During certificate verification, OpenSSL (starting from version 1.0.1n and 1.0.2b) will attempt to find an alternative certificate chain if the first attempt to build such a chain fails. An error in the implementation of this logic can mean that an attacker could cause certain checks on untrusted certificates to be bypassed, such as the CA flag, enabling them to use a valid leaf certificate to act as a CA and "issue"
mircea_popescu: an invalid certificate."
asciilifeform: (though it's been a while since i looked at the turdation's tree - perhaps they do ?)
mircea_popescu: and yet, "we do not feel compelled to denounce the person who added this hole in our codebase, and call for a boycott from everyone on it against their sorry ass. because, fundamentally... it's us."
asciilifeform: who else.
asciilifeform: not martians, no.
mircea_popescu: "As per our previous announcements and our Release Strategy (https://www.openssl.org/about/releasestrat.html), support for OpenSSL versions 1.0.0 and 0.9.8 will cease on 31st December 2015. No security updates for these releases will be provided after that date. Users of these releases are advised to upgrade."
mircea_popescu: non sequitur prize of the year.
mircea_popescu: "we will stop deliberately adding holes to these versions aftyer this date, and you are please asked to upgrade because we won't be sending patches a quarter afterwards, either"
mircea_popescu: herp.
mircea_popescu: DO NOT EVER FUCKING UPGRADE ANYTHING.
mircea_popescu: that way, you won't need "security patches" in the first place.
asciilifeform: incidentally, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191327 << this thread fell through the cracks, i think ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 17:37:15; trinque: https://security.gentoo.org/glsa/201507-04
asciilifeform: relates.
mircea_popescu: you may be the only one here seriously following gentoo.
asciilifeform: it isn't a gentoo-specific thing
asciilifeform: unfortunately
asciilifeform: it is in ~EVERYTHING THAT USES UNICODE~
asciilifeform: more or less.
mircea_popescu: guess that wasn't apparent.
asciilifeform: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pedrib/PoC/master/generic/i-c-u-fail.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr1Kie )
asciilifeform: ^ proof of concept
asciilifeform: or wait, no
asciilifeform: just the raw animal
mircea_popescu: Workaround There is no known workaround at this time.
mircea_popescu: yes there ios a known workaround. has been known since 1985. FUCK UNICODE.
shinohai: whelp I hve a pogo now. A blank canvas, if you will.
mircea_popescu: shinohai wd. follow danielpbarron's instructions
shinohai graciously thanks mats again ...
mircea_popescu: !rated mats
assbot: You rated user mats on 08-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/.
mircea_popescu: !rate mats 2 http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1be7db6ba38c2aa6
assbot: So who's running the Courts circus ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr25Bn )
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mats.2:69e8f3590c3e3179d8606f89cade86164889b7457861391f4944b9ffca387e6d
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 2 with note: http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.
mircea_popescu: !rated lobbes
assbot: You rated user lobbes on 06-Feb-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Well... he did teach himself how to view a directory....
mircea_popescu: !rate lobbes 2 #eulora logs bot
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8d485e72deea6e0b
shinohai: I am sorry to report that I have not yet received an email from trilema with a deposit addy
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.lobbes.2:81f948807d830af41e59c4726108dd6ddae1f995b52730f156735b2897c1a68b
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for lobbes from 1 to 2 with note: #eulora logs bot
mircea_popescu: shinohai spam filters ?
mircea_popescu: !rated danielpbarron
assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 29-Jul-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Logician in charge of logistics..
shinohai: I dunno. I get the dev mailing list.
shinohai: but not trilema, and nothing in spam folder so i dunno :/
shinohai: I could send to deedbot or something?
mircea_popescu: lemme send you an email now and we see. addy ?
mircea_popescu: (pm if you want)
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJe3A19W8AA9DgO.png:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mi1Enb )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00055059 = 1.2113 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: whassat punkman ?
mircea_popescu: the dram thing ?
punkman: javascript corrupting memory
mircea_popescu: http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com.ar/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html
assbot: Project Zero: Exploiting the DRAM rowhammer bug to gain kernel privileges ... ( http://bit.ly/1fr43lp )
mircea_popescu: for background
asciilifeform remembers very well
shinohai: Not seeing my drive :/
asciilifeform: shinohai: what are you running ?
shinohai: Busybox on pogo mount: mounting /dev/sda1 on /tmp/usb failed: Invalid argument
asciilifeform: what's on the drive ?
shinohai: nothing
asciilifeform: of course it won't mount
asciilifeform: gotta partition it
punkman: the "spam" is now up to 0.00034513 fee
shinohai checks
shinohai: Fer crissakes I forgot to partition fr.
shinohai: But it must wait until sfter lunch.
shinohai: *after
mircea_popescu: shinohai got email ?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00034513 * 270
gribble: 0.0931851
mircea_popescu: 10 cents, not bad.
shinohai: got email
asciilifeform: 'brother can you spare a dime'
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
decimation: asciilifeform: www.ebay.com/itm/INBOARD-RTC-DS3232-Real-Time-Clock-and-Temperature-Sensor-I2C-BUS-PIC-AVR-ARM-/120841157983 < hi-spec part
decimation: unlike alot of the other rtcs, the crystal is on-chip and temp compensated
mircea_popescu: that's a spiffy clock.
decimation: my reading of the spec sheet is that combined aging and temperature stability (assuming 0-40C) would be about 8.5 ppm
decimation: which means about 4.5 minutes per year
decimation: for 10 years
mircea_popescu: yeah it's good for a decade, since we have ~2 hours to spare
decimation: likely, the cr1203 battery wouldn't last that log
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised. those damned things... i've had one for a decade.
asciilifeform: i have a 15 yr-old one that's still going
asciilifeform: and i've had ones die after <5
decimation: but as you can see it isn't cheap, the chip is about $9 in single quantity and about $4 in units of 1000
asciilifeform: 'your mileage may vary'
mircea_popescu: yeah. like hdds : either dead in six months or good forever.
mircea_popescu: like humans, actually. either die as a youthful ape, or else get cancer, or else... age 150
asciilifeform: decimation: the thing you linked to costs more than pogo...
decimation: I know :(
asciilifeform: may as well suggest atomic
shinohai: I got a really old SATA with debian wheezy on it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's still a very good clock by the looks of it.
asciilifeform: it is
decimation: unfortunately the really cheap ($1) rtcs available do not come with specs, it would be interesting to know what they are
asciilifeform: probably better than most pc mobos
decimation: yes, it certainly is
mircea_popescu: definitely.
decimation: also I'm not sure if pogo has i2c bus
mircea_popescu: iirc - no.
asciilifeform: l0l i think ~it~ is on my mobo
asciilifeform: the very same
mircea_popescu: maybe on the better ones
asciilifeform: highest end amd mobo of ~8 yrs ago
decimation: asciilifeform: you can configure ntp to ignore the network and use RTC
mircea_popescu: i don't expect technologee changed these much since the 90s
asciilifeform: decimation: what good does that do ?
decimation: you set rtc, usg doesn't set your clock?
asciilifeform: then why ntp
mircea_popescu: he doesn't want to set anything
decimation: to discipline the kernel timebase
mircea_popescu: he just wants things to do shit!
decimation: likely the rtc has a more stable clock than the 2ghz clock that runs your cpu
asciilifeform: decimation: and can't do this without a proggy that opens sockets ?
asciilifeform: why the fuck not ?
mircea_popescu: moar unpnp ? :D
decimation: well, the advantage that ntp brings is the long-term PLL that gently corrects
decimation: but you could periodically bang the clock
asciilifeform: decimation: i'd have bitcoind snarf time straight from the rtc chip
asciilifeform: why the ceremonies.
decimation: in the case of bitcoind that would work
decimation: for other applications moving the clock around might make them sad
asciilifeform: there are no other proggies on pogo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ready for the will/intelligence discussion ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fire away
decimation back to mines
scoopbot_revived: Eulora News Bulletin of today. http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-news-bulletin-of-today/
mircea_popescu: me ? you're the one to fire. you proposed pink shapeless.
mircea_popescu: o incidentally. that article ^ prolly interests you
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, the impression i get is that you think 'will' is a scalar
asciilifeform: will is not a scalar. perelman has will, mircea_popescu has will, i have will, and napoleon had will, and comparing magnitudes alone is rank nonsense
mircea_popescu: but that's not where the problem lies. the problem lies at the spot where you propose there exists an "intelligence" that nevertheless does not have control of the processor.
mircea_popescu: if one is purportedly intelligent, how is it then that his brain does not work intelligently ?
asciilifeform: intelligence is 'car,' will is 'driver'
mircea_popescu: then intelligence is no sort of intelligence at all.
mircea_popescu: i dub it "derp" and rename your will intelligence.
asciilifeform: driver sans car sits and makes 'vroom, vroom' noises; car without driver - sits, rusts.
mircea_popescu: for this is the definition of intellectual faculty : the driver.
mircea_popescu: everything else, muscle power.
mircea_popescu: and yes, redditards are not necessarily unintelligent in the sense of derp.
mircea_popescu: they're actually very derpy.
mircea_popescu: problem is they're dumb as rocks, is all.
asciilifeform: other thing is that the meat brain is not a von neumann machine, and has specific circuits for certain problems. it is possible to walk around with those damaged and others - functional
mircea_popescu: so is a guy paralised on half his body half an athlete ?
asciilifeform: if he's an arm wrestling champ !
asciilifeform: and has his working arm.
mircea_popescu: kinda why arm wrestling is not athletics :)
mircea_popescu: in any case, weren't you bravely accusing ME of viewing things as scalars ?
mircea_popescu: how come they're now divisible with 2.
funkenstein_: there is a special space in the hilbert space of stupidity for those who think intelligence can be well described with a scalar
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my contention was that you describe will as a spectrum, perhaps between 'spineless clerk' and 'napoleon'
mircea_popescu: i dun think i do.
mircea_popescu: there is an ennumerable list of people by their intelligence. this usually reduces to sorting them by score
asciilifeform: whereas i contend that it is possible to be 'napoleon' with theorems and 'spineless piece of shit' with girlz
mircea_popescu: and that score is how much money they have.
asciilifeform: or vice-versa
mircea_popescu: only if one WANTS TO
funkenstein_: i have found fiat wealth correlates linearly with a broad integral of stupidity
asciilifeform: well that'd be a kind of perverse but technically correct definition of 'will'
mircea_popescu: "oh it can be the case i can lift rocks but not railroad metal"
mircea_popescu: rly.
asciilifeform: how strong is your 'want muscle'
asciilifeform: it's more of a 'i can lift rocks but not porcupines'
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as they both exist, they both exist. inasmuch as the one you're good at doesn't exist, you're basically wanking.
asciilifeform confused
mircea_popescu: the curse of existence is that it is approachable. just like a tool has its uses, irrespective of a maker's intention.
mircea_popescu: everything that is, is. which has some effects.
asciilifeform: which is the item mircea_popescu is describing as not existing? and which - not ?
mircea_popescu: i am doing no such thing.
mircea_popescu: i am merely pointing out that if both things you discuss exist, then both necessarily, by definition of existence, are approachable.
mircea_popescu: this is traditonally pointed out to the shy young male as "you know, even the lady of your heart farts"
mircea_popescu: or whatever, your hero also bleeds, there's a lengthy cultural history of this idealisation problem.
asciilifeform: proof of twin-primes conjecture is also 'approachable' by this token
asciilifeform: in that it is sitting 'there' to be dug up
mircea_popescu: only if it exists :)
mircea_popescu: which atm we do not know.
asciilifeform: it is possible that it does not exist
mircea_popescu: but if it does exist, then yes, it will necessarily be found eventually.
asciilifeform: better example - pluto
asciilifeform: we know where it sits
asciilifeform: come, get.
mircea_popescu: get what ?
asciilifeform: a piece of pluto.
mircea_popescu: so you are saying mining pluto is an impossibility.
mircea_popescu: and why not ceres ? she's just as big!
mircea_popescu: nobody ever thinks of ceres.
asciilifeform: not impossible, but not strictly a matter of 'wanting to' either
mircea_popescu: orly ?
mircea_popescu: and if it were the case the commercial value of piece of pluto ten times exceeded the commercial cost of sending miner ?
mircea_popescu: it'd be mined next week.
mircea_popescu: so no, we currently do not wish to, is all.
asciilifeform: this is logical, but for some reason this scenario did not play out re: bitcoin asics
asciilifeform: why?
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
asciilifeform: (afaik, there are still no true asics!)
mircea_popescu: too low margins
mircea_popescu: do the math, sometime. a miner earns 0.2% or some shit.
asciilifeform: partly this is on account of using 'hardcopy fpga'
mircea_popescu: currently foundries are working on .9%
asciilifeform: which is 100% of what is presently sold as 'btcasic'
mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: of course, sold != deployed, but the error isn't great.
asciilifeform: partly this is on account of the derpitude of keeping them all in a warehouse, rather than having chumps pay for power
asciilifeform: (as discussed in 2013 here)
mircea_popescu: they are kept in warehouse for same reasdon you want untouched pogo
asciilifeform: but that 0.2% is made of a long list of bad decisions
mircea_popescu: people have this fixed idea that getting others involved is the worst play.
mircea_popescu: it isn't the worst play, but hard to get the notion through.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. chief among them, a poor handling of cooperation.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: think of what just one backroom cocksucking deal with a major microcontroller maker to include hidden miner would have been worth.
mircea_popescu: ~nothing much
asciilifeform: what's the logic here?
mircea_popescu: hard to explain, but i will give the anecdotic.
mircea_popescu: i am not unaware of this possibility, yet i apparently discounted it, preferring a divergent approach. maybe i'm just that dumb.
asciilifeform: (that the hidden boojum would not stay hidden, is a no-brainer. idea would be to exploit the first-mover advantage, naturally)
mircea_popescu: shitty thing to build a life of.
mircea_popescu: you want last-mover advantage. if you can get it.
asciilifeform: life of miner is a life of a soldier, disposable, as mircea_popescu reminded us last night
mircea_popescu: what else has first mover advantage ? making a bitcoin foundation ?
mircea_popescu: they lost.
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: there is a whole array of strange things that miner builders do, which puzzle me greatly
mircea_popescu: o, wait, that schmucky chick. what was it, chamber of buttsex ?
asciilifeform: i'll name just one (because i am not in the business of handing out free advice to derpatronicists) -
asciilifeform: why the fuck does 'as much has as possible' have to be packed in one die ?
asciilifeform: creates the heat nightmare
mircea_popescu: !up cosmo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're just going through the motions. they don't really know what they're doing, nobodyu sat dowqn and thought things through.
asciilifeform: and it isn't like ten dies would take up unpalatable floor space
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it
mircea_popescu: the packing thing is a result of the consumer electronics market
mircea_popescu: they don't understand that if you sell for yourself, and not to put in a desktop, you have diff engineering constraints
asciilifeform: so what i'm saying is, pluto is sitting there, made of priceless unobtainium, and schmucks are schmucking around
mircea_popescu: actually more floor space = better for a short interval at the place they're now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and at some point, america teemed with fucktarded savages and nobody came to kill the males and rape the females.
mircea_popescu: sure, nobody did.
mircea_popescu: for... a little bit.
mircea_popescu: and ... nobody will ever again.
mircea_popescu: for... hm. for EVER AND EVER THIS TIME!!11
asciilifeform: 8k years was 'a little bit' ?
asciilifeform: i suppose - geologically...
mircea_popescu: iirc the vikings did a little recuntissance
asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)
asciilifeform: back to the miners, i say that if money were the handy iq test mircea_popescu suggests it is, this kind of situation would be quite impossible.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ << that's basically the ideology of butthurt.
mircea_popescu: it is drastically unwise to imagine a certificate of intelligence as a sort of consolation prize.
funkenstein_: the point at which Americas so teemed began in 1600 or so
mircea_popescu: that's what late empire matrons tell their effette offspring that just lost at the races to the hearty barbarians : "don
mircea_popescu: 't woprry honey, they're stupid"
mircea_popescu: they're not so stupid, and the measure of their superior intelligence is to be found in the joyous cries of the noble roman's girlfriend.
funkenstein_: it's not a question of "don't worry" .. actually, we should be worried
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. improbable, which all reality ever is.
mircea_popescu: not impossible, nor long of this world.
asciilifeform: there very much ~is~ such a thing as 'stupid and effective'
asciilifeform: such as the bacteria that eventually eat everybody's girlfriend
mircea_popescu: like how would that be ?
asciilifeform: (along with anyone else)
mircea_popescu: is gcd stupid but effective ?
funkenstein_: the reason wealth is often correlated with dumb is probably similar to why gps ownership is correlated with poor navigation skills
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ such as in sattelites and missiles ?
mircea_popescu: glwt.
mircea_popescu: i propose that gcd is one of the few smart things we know.
mircea_popescu: it is smart enough to be the END of a class.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja know that paul erdos had a story about these ?
asciilifeform: this class.
mircea_popescu: nope
asciilifeform: he liked to say that god had a book, containing the best possible proof of each theorem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00054405 = 5.0053 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: highest compliment paul e. could give a colleague was to say 'this is from The Book'
mircea_popescu: ahaha not bad.
asciilifeform: hence 'end of a class'
mircea_popescu: makes sense, dunnit ? even without being jewish.
asciilifeform: it is actually a very rare thing
asciilifeform: (being able to prove that you can't do better runtime than particular algo, say)
asciilifeform: however, there are still interesting boojums:
funkenstein_: see e.g. the god algorithm for cube solving
asciilifeform: romans could very well have 'proved' that their arithmetic is 'optimal'
asciilifeform: while being entirely wrong by our lights
mircea_popescu: even gods bite it eventually.
asciilifeform: because 'notation is worth 80 iq'
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: kinda why i do not actually regret golden antiquity.
mircea_popescu: had a good run, but it did run its course.
mircea_popescu: and so it came to pass zeus eventually ran out of book.
asciilifeform: everybody eventually runs out of book.
mircea_popescu: for my curiosity, how'd such a roman proof look like ?
mircea_popescu: i don't readily see it.
mircea_popescu: (but this is perhaps the most obscure field of all scholarship - constructive cultural antrhopology, which is to say : construct FUTURE development of science on the basis and with the methods available in X context.
mircea_popescu: a superlative form of hermeneutics if you wish. certainly decent training exercise for the more advanced students.
asciilifeform: this is normally where 'alt history' storytellers fail, yes
mircea_popescu: ayup
asciilifeform: 'show me nazi internet' (mr mold)
mircea_popescu: even the most cursory effort to consider the matter sunks people like orlov.
mircea_popescu: it should be standard class in disinfo ministry, but hey. they're also saving these days.
asciilifeform: sometimes the 'construct future with past' thing gets taken up and run ragged, though. as in the case of 'square the circle with ruler and compass' problem that drove folks batshit until 19th c even.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: and there are still legions of crackpots trying to prove ftl with what they studied in school.
mircea_popescu: where is that discussion with cads
asciilifeform: a maths prof informed me that until recently, it was customary to answer their letters. but not any more.
mircea_popescu: !s riemann
assbot: 1 results for 'riemann' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=riemann
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/squares-do-morals-a-porno/#footnote_9_49613
assbot: Squares do Morals. A Porno. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Toj2L7 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, all kinds of folks spent whole lives 'lala i can't hear you' to cantor's diagonal.
asciilifeform: probably even now
asciilifeform: something about it pisses off certain types
mircea_popescu: aham.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re nazi internet : minitel
asciilifeform: probably not too far off!
mircea_popescu: mhm
asciilifeform: (twist: rewrite orwell's '1984' where 'minilove' is actually a dour and heavily bureaucratized network of official brothels.)
mircea_popescu: not bad idea.
mircea_popescu: like they have in indonesia / poor asia generally and it fascinated tarantino
asciilifeform: them.
mircea_popescu: ever seen the sexploitations in question ? women on cots, 500 to a hall, separated by hanging sheets ?
asciilifeform: didn't see alive, no. but who hasn't seen photos.
asciilifeform: sorta like an old military hospital
mircea_popescu visited one such thing, in costa rica. it is the closest i ever got to a medieval hospital.
mircea_popescu: ha!
asciilifeform: obvious mental association
mircea_popescu: sexploitation = a movie
asciilifeform: haven't seen, no
asciilifeform adds to list
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/women-in-cages/
assbot: Women In Cages on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmuYQ9 )
asciilifeform: 'Anyway, it is my considered opinion (along with, I wager, most everyone else's) that positively the ONLY way that's getting show to be inconsistent is by some intoxicated kids during having sex or somesuch. Everything else was tried to death.' (from mircea_popescu's www) <<<< 'ftl drive will be discovered by an ee student on the verge of flunking, designing stero amps.' (al schwartz)
asciilifeform: incidentally, for anyone who missed, gabriel_laddel found that schwartz is not only alive but cranking out nonstop commentary re: everything, largely on some godforsaken redditron
asciilifeform: might be time to attempt persuading him to visit, again.
asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-IIC-Module-Real-Time-Clock-Memory-Module-For-Arduino-DS3231-AT24C32-/400932997447 << also temp-compensated ?
assbot: High Quality IIC Module Real Time Clock Memory Module for Arduino DS3231 AT24C32 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1RmwFwO )
asciilifeform: ~88 cent
asciilifeform: (plus battery)
asciilifeform: what i wonder is where these are typically used.
asciilifeform: they are produced, and apparently sold, in vast quantities.
asciilifeform: clearly ~somebody~ isn't eager to use ntp for everything.
asciilifeform: where do these little modules go? toasters? time bombs in afghan ?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah DS3231 is the older version of the same chip that doesn't have any onboard sram
decimation: would work fine
decimation: I think the 3231 is end of life, probably trying to ditch stock
decimation: asciilifeform: I think at least one use is utility meters
decimation: any case where you have a cheap sensor that you 'launch'
asciilifeform: sram could be useful, to keep 'last seeds' in or whatnot. but entirely luxury.
decimation: aye
decimation: oh they also use them in gps receivers
decimation: for 'cold start'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9920 @ 0.00054166 = 5.3733 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: yeah the ds3231 has the same spec for time performance
asciilifeform: and costs 18x less, l0l
asciilifeform: (than earlier link)
decimation: someone must be ditching stock
asciilifeform: like pogo..
decimation: 'cause a 3231 costs like $4.50 from digikey in qty 1000
asciilifeform: ^ not including pcb, battery holder, etc
asciilifeform: xtal
decimation: no xtal is in chip
asciilifeform: ah hm.
asciilifeform: even so.
decimation: but yeah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
mircea_popescu: yeah somebody with still a reddit acct plox ask scwhartz to come over.
asciilifeform: it wasn't reddit
asciilifeform digs in log
danielpbarron: discus
mircea_popescu: meh.
mircea_popescu: fucking discus. what the fuck is wrong with that guy.
asciilifeform: it
mircea_popescu: i mean of all the places... no wonder it took forever to find him.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's a compulsive ant-stomper. went where the enviro-whiners congregate
asciilifeform: to apply his futile flamethrower
asciilifeform: every 15 min. or so, all day...
asciilifeform: i guess his isp finally stopped carrying usenet..
mircea_popescu: he should be here, i'm sick of being the most lines.
asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines
asciilifeform: somebody oughta send him a link with b-a search string of his name, or whatnot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00054405 = 4.842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: or the discussion of the apparatus
asciilifeform: definitely it.
asciilifeform: or gabriel_laddel going over his dozen favourite al essays
asciilifeform: or this thread!
asciilifeform: ferfuxxsake.
asciilifeform: come visit us, uncle al! we'll dine on adelberger's roasted ballsack and wash it down with lagavulin !
ag3nt_zer0: anyone seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD5oMxbMcHM
assbot: The Act of Killing - Official Trailer (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboL4C )
asciilifeform: and while you're here, bring penny and anybody else still alive from mensa.talk.misc
funkenstein_: i think i saw him on sci.physics.relativity a decade ago
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 youtube stopped working for me with some update or other.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: he was all over sci.* a decade+ ago
asciilifeform: 1990-2004 or so
asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal << www still up!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboXRn )
asciilifeform: no new essays for some years though
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/0ff0aff9dffec8a9a978794148cd219e/tumblr_mjw7i4bmlm1qfaf1fo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SboYEI )
asciilifeform recalls the ordeal of convincing mircea_popescu that al schwartz isn't a 'timecube'
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I watched that last week.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=34&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQtwIwAzge&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2F58004844&ei=pLyeVcuAEcm2ogSx-5rgBg&usg=AFQjCNH_j-TsYTnEvRDHiEZH3WbYMAwywg&sig2=JNwKq1S17c8cSu5k9ZR6sA&bvm=bv.96952980,d.cGU
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbp5jL )
ag3nt_zer0: wtf sorry
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not even convinced yet. just, not particularly convinced of the contrapositive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00054499 = 3.1882 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 vimeo never worked. for some reason html5 standards are too hard for these schmucks
mircea_popescu: (that reason being, obviously, that they can't get to play their inept advertising with it)
asciilifeform convinced, but it took many years of actually working through the maths
asciilifeform does not expect anyone here to do this.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: well, it's called The Act Of Killing and you should look at it
mircea_popescu: maybe after teh war.
asciilifeform: after.
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 can it be a text ?
mircea_popescu: i had no idea just how iconoclastic i actually am, before b-a
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: a text? don't understand
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195308 << https://disqus.com/home/discussion/neuroskeptic/could_travelling_waves_upset_cognitive_neuroscience/#comment-2127007121 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:20:13; asciilifeform: or this thread!
assbot: Disqus - Could Travelling Waves Upset Cognitive Neuroscience? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpgvv )
mircea_popescu: that film or whatever it is, does it have a script or some such textual equivalent ?
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: what'd you think? fucking bizarre?
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: no script... it's like nothing else I have seen - http://www.theactofkilling.com/
assbot: The Act of Killing ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sbpkey )
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: eh them recalling the days of murdering people... it seemed rather natural
trinque: having them reenact the events was a little strange, but what I was struck with was the matter-of-fact attitude they had towards the events, mostly
funkenstein_: wait violence and killing in movies? what a novel idea
trinque: I figure I live a pretty padded life not knowing what that's like
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah, natural in a way... but the vibrant colors, the recreations, them watching the takes and commenting... the translations... fucking crazy
mircea_popescu: "The government chose not to enact coercive measures, however, stating that the regulation of the online activities of children was up to parents, not the government. " << most important thing about minitel.
trinque: funkenstein_: docu has folks from kissinger's indonesian bloodletting reenacting and recounting their stories
mircea_popescu: i'd have much rather had french internet than ustardian internet.
mircea_popescu: !up mike_c_alt
ag3nt_zer0: I wasn't in the mood the first few times I started it, so I stopped... finally last night had the receptivity and it hit pretty good...
mircea_popescu: and generally, the world will be broadly a better place once the colonies get their voice turned down to the 1.6-2.2 they deserve.
mircea_popescu: there is no conceivable reason the combined cultural pull of us should exceed that of greece. they're about the same toilet.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: there's another along these lines, was pretty good
trinque: I'm trying to recall the name
mike_c: Sorry for part spam.. different client/computer than usual.
trinque: had 'nam vets and such talking about how they couldn't come back from war mentally because they liked war so much
trinque: wasn't the majority of them, but some felt that way
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: added mine, for what it's worth
trinque: the idea of a "warrior" seems foreign these days, I guess
mircea_popescu: mike_c how you doin' these days
mike_c: Who knows. I try not to think about it.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mike_c: way too busy!
trinque: heh, I know that feeling
mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla
mike_c: got a couple of good blog posts coming up though that are half way done.
mircea_popescu: but experimentally, it seems to be a transient phase
asciilifeform: mike_c: good busy or bad busy
mike_c: bad busy. Time is sucked away on things that aren't worth it.
mircea_popescu: sucks.
asciilifeform is ^ much of the time
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yeah I suppose... unless you have to sit through a multiculturalism focused education program in humboldt county run by marxism-hypnotized dykes... then noticing fruits of their labor in Silly Valley public ed... then start thinking warrior again
ag3nt_zer0: haha it isnt even just under the surface
mircea_popescu: so argue them into the dirt.
ag3nt_zer0: yeah working on it
mircea_popescu: fwif i'm a multiculturalism fan.
ag3nt_zer0: why?
mircea_popescu: cuz i'm from central europe ?
ag3nt_zer0: haha
asciilifeform: usa does nulliculturalism
asciilifeform: not multi
mircea_popescu: just because they sell shit under imported names in the us doesn't mean the originals are bad
mircea_popescu: it just means the us destroys everything it touches
trinque: asciilifeform: hey, they change the holiday aisle at walmart for cinco de mayo!
ag3nt_zer0: I am a fan of apple because I live in silly valley
mircea_popescu: nah, doesn't reduce to that. central europe used to be run by a multicultural empire.
mircea_popescu: we did the funny naming conventions they used here before
mircea_popescu: !s cezaro-craiesc
assbot: 0 results for 'cezaro-craiesc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cezaro-craiesc
mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!
asciilifeform: !s царь-государь
assbot: 0 results for 'царь-государь' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C-%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: multi-racial? or just multicult?
asciilifeform: ferfuxsake
asciilifeform: search is broken.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i blame you and your antistemming policies.
asciilifeform: CAN HAZ GREP PLZ
asciilifeform: as in, exact same behaviour
asciilifeform: ?
asciilifeform: why does b-a search have to not be grep ?
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 let's put it this way : you couldn't as a middle class woman marry some douche who didn't speak multiple languages. because your parents wouldn't let you.
mircea_popescu: because that meant he is stupid.
asciilifeform: sorta like illiteracy today
mircea_popescu: quite like.
asciilifeform: or iprogrammacy tomorrow
mircea_popescu: doubt that.
asciilifeform also doubts
mircea_popescu: but hopes ? lol
asciilifeform: but there once was this notion.
trinque: along those lines, I only just found naggum's hyperspec.el
trinque: let it be known that I resent having had to search the landfill for this shit
ag3nt_zer0: I mean maybe we aren't speaking of the same thing... here, in US, multiculti is synonymous with "tolerance" and "diversity" and cultural relativism.... which translates to, in many cases, classrooms full of unruly mexican children claiming racism if you say that 2+2=4
asciilifeform: trinque: i've spent years trying to pull naggum, uncle al schwartz, et al out of the landfill
asciilifeform: trinque: it is one of those things that has to be done.
asciilifeform: like the excavation of aristotle in the old days
mircea_popescu: and i bet you they told you all you needed to hear about gravity wells and whatnot.
ag3nt_zer0: meanwhile, any good student, mexican, white, asian, whatever, is completely fucked and her education is retarded even more than it would be normally, just by virtue of the PE system... but this shit makes it so much worse
asciilifeform: gravity wells ?
mircea_popescu: what's pe ?
asciilifeform: public ed?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, can't leave disqus because that's where his discwot is.
mircea_popescu: aok
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubt it. he's switched 'discuses' a couplea times in the past few yrs, it looks like
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35257 @ 0.00054529 = 19.2253 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: doesn't seem to have much positive to say re: the folks therein
mircea_popescu: yeah. and if us falls over how many folk will go to canada.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: that reduces to "you should, as the teacher, be in charge of the fucking room."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he plays a role similar to what hanbot once did on tardstalk
asciilifeform: but without any good reason to
mircea_popescu: he can not. for who is the employer
mircea_popescu: aha
ag3nt_zer0: https://www.archive.org/stream/bugbearofliterac035352mbp/bugbearofliterac035352mbp_djvu.txt
assbot: Full text of "The_Bugbear_Of_Literacy" ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbqU04 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << zing. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:41:10; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194359 so there should be plenty examples of usg diddling a traffic on the backbone, could you please post one?
asciilifeform answered that one...
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194806 << typically italian. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 09:58:31; punkman: "Berlusconi, 78, will not have to serve the sentence as the statute of limitations expires later this year, well before a final ruling will have been reached on appeal."
asciilifeform: mr b is probably closest thing southern europe has to a 'lizard'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194820 << the reason he doesn't have the ~2 trillion required is EXACTLY that he would do this with it. and it's a stupid idea and it shouldt be done. in the general case, money works to limit the power of influencing the course of events people have, and gathers itself in the hands of those who ~SHOULD~ have most to say. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 12:58:26; punkman: "I wish I had the money to setup enough miners myself to get 95% hashing power and just freaking fork already."
mircea_popescu: that's whgat it is.
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yes but these ridiculously reductionist tolerance ideas put into the heads of idiots just amounts to, as MP says something about in a blurb about professionalism on trilema, amateurs playing the racist card or what not... any number of limp-dicked excuses and diversions from what should be the teacher's right to maintain a fucking orderly environment
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds kinda like men's rights
trinque: what I'm saying is if you were in power in the situation it wouldn't matter
trinque: the idea that a bunch of kids can overrule you is insane, aside from a fantasy
asciilifeform: re: market, see also, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193867 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
asciilifeform: imagine if 'reddit' folk actually had anything
asciilifeform: we still haven't recovered from their species having net connections
mircea_popescu: BitFury pool (~ 16% of hashrate) drops their max block size to 135 kB amidst large mempool backlog << check out all the gavin miner support.
mircea_popescu: they should have a vote!
trinque: haw!
mircea_popescu: make the block version be 81!
mircea_popescu: noi wait 42. 42 is the right version to have.
kakobrekla: BitFury pool < back to 974
asciilifeform: maxint.
kakobrekla: kb
mircea_popescu: "You can't solve a problem of lack of bandwidth by higher fees for access. A system that is too bandwidth limited to serve it's users isn't fixed by making the service more expensive."
mircea_popescu: herp.
mircea_popescu: i gotta love idiots, srsly. if not me, then who.
asciilifeform: i wonder if any of them ever encountered phrase 'load shedding'
asciilifeform: i bet they ~will~, but only when the words appear on their - final - electric bill.
asciilifeform: some time this decade.
mircea_popescu: mmmyeah.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: to reword what I was saying, thinking in terms of rights means somebody else is in charge, doesn't it?
mircea_popescu: "bandwidth just comes from whining to dad, money has nothing to do with it. why should i get a summere job ??!?!?!"
trinque: whereas the problem you describe is one of *you* not being in charge
asciilifeform: in related newz, i sometimes go to a 'dry cleaner' shop. their price, unchanged for a decade+, has gone up 50%. it was actually part of the chain's name, and they have to put garbage bags over the neon signs...
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: to be fair, I was subbing last year, and so these were not "my" classrooms, but still, it is just so fucking degenerate man... but check this: even of it IS your classroom it can still be quite dufficult with these fucking democratically programmed idiots in charge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform two words from a pile of paper you yourself regard as disinfo ?
asciilifeform: 'inflation doesn't exist. if exists, doesn't matter. and fuckyou for asking'
mircea_popescu: very shitty answer, afl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which pile
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: oh I know; I think it's too fucked to salvage
mircea_popescu: ferretsomething
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'hangout' != fiction
asciilifeform: best hangout is to expose a genuine secret. just one that still 'works' fine after exposed.
mircea_popescu: that rope's gettin' tight.
asciilifeform: that cannon's still shootin'.
mircea_popescu: point out just one ? for love ?
ag3nt_zer0: for instance, I just got a job teaching music at a school 2 days a week... so it's my own classroom. however, I have already been told that "we don't ever raise our voices here"... "we all go by our first names"... etc all this hippy slop
ag3nt_zer0: and also "we use a program called "positive discipline"....
trinque: lol!
ag3nt_zer0: so i resisted for a while, then finally looked it up thinkning "ok, I'll have a good go at it and backburner my cynicism"
asciilifeform bbl
ag3nt_zer0: well gwt this fucking shit!
trinque: and when the child screams for another cupcake, you shall deliver it to him in no less than 15 seconds
ag3nt_zer0: I looked it up
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194852 << this would be a massive win situation ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:50:35; asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the "here's gavin's head on a plate, fuckwits. now what ?"
ag3nt_zer0: and it turns out the entire thing was created by a guy who commited suicide in a hotel room after he was accused of molesting kids
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 so you told them that "maybe YOU do, miss derp, but I do not. anything else ?"
mircea_popescu: did you or didn't you ?
trinque: really do have to be willing to fight people to keep any sanity in the states
ag3nt_zer0: and trinque, this is a PARENT PARTICIPATION school... and none of these motherfuckers seem to know that their entire discipline system was created by this jack ass
trinque: so piss in all their cheerios or leave, mang
trinque: and/or
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194866 << zing. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 14:54:36; jurov: if it is not specific, how it can be a cause?
mircea_popescu: i like jurov's logic machine.
ag3nt_zer0: but I won't say anything till I make my money to travel the world next year... then when I quit I will mention that they should look into their shit a little more
shinohai: pogo is up mats \o/
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: hell I've written php for rent
mircea_popescu: wd shinohai
trinque: the whole thing's coming down anyway
trinque: it's not like you're going to save that public school from itself and then that'll somehow mean the empire doesn't fall over anyway
trinque: sling php with abandon, I say, and study common lisp all evening and night
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: the principal said that I have a choice... but it was just a sidelined statement really
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194889 << i also like his pincered skullcap :D ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:07:02; asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 looky here. nobody asked him anything.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes
mircea_popescu: you went to school, learned a trade, now youy're gonna aplly it.
mircea_popescu: they don't like it, they can call the union
mircea_popescu: you, of all the only people here, are in the best position. stop making up random excuses.
mircea_popescu: "i don't care how you do it. this is how i do it. get out of my classroom."
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: yes, I still have to learn the ropes in these ways... don't fret, my inner psychopath is learning
mircea_popescu: nay! it stands for, "nobody asked you".
trinque: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/19NRB2V.txt )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194905 << this can prolly be arranged, if we actually decide to humour this patent insanity ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 15:24:06; kakobrekla: i have a soldering station, but no pogos.
mircea_popescu: instead of just eating ntp shitsandwich
mircea_popescu: the life and times and the choices before us, good lord.
ag3nt_zer0: my problem is that I get so fucking mad at these poseurs who have the nerve to claim that they carry the flame of knowledge to pass on to these kids... when all they are doing is trying to make themselves appear nice in their own mirrors
mircea_popescu: so tell them that.
mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel; any better, this is a traditional problem of teaching as practiced since that bismarck's invention of the "school"
ag3nt_zer0: yeah... it's coming... just need to do it wisely
mircea_popescu: one kid unhappy with the other poseurs in the "cancelarie" of romanian schools cca 1980. maybe two. in each school.
mircea_popescu: 60s, same.
mircea_popescu: ;;google tovarasul profesor isoscel
gribble: Tamara Buciuceanu - Wikipedia: <https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamara_Buciuceanu>; extemporal la dirigentie: profa de mate - scena 1 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7isr9wzmWw>; Tamara Buciuceanu - Actor - CineMagia.ro: <http://www.cinemagia.ro/actori/tamara-buciuceanu-2416/>
ag3nt_zer0: thanks for the words of encouragement
mats: good to hear shinohai
shinohai: I have everything except a working static build of bitcoind
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmZsstddULc&list=PL7M0G2a-TISfqmuk24assKLdQQz87lPzZ << great metal album
assbot: El Altar Del Dios Desconocido - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWBQOD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24875 @ 0.00053783 = 13.3785 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://www.businessinsider.com/heartbleed-fix-faw-openssl-hacking
assbot: Fresh 'high severity' security flaw found in OpenSSL - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQxeuj )
asciilifeform: l0l re: 'team discovered'
asciilifeform: ~created~.
decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski There is no
decimation: USB support yet, which means that there is no local storage
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: (no onboard CompactFlash).
decimation: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/5.7/octeon/INSTALL.octeon < they claim that openbsd doesn't support usb storage
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQxmKi )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other 'news,' my node has 44 connections
asciilifeform: afaik that's a new record.
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/07/caspar-bowden-cpunks-1996-98.txt << unrelated, historical lulz
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWEqEm )
Naphex: https://xotika.tv/static/munin/main/main/mbitcoin_transactions.html for the interested
assbot: Munin :: main :: main :: mbitcoin transactions ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWEqUO )
shinohai: 44 O.o
danielpbarron: !up opus8
shinohai: udev
trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?
trinque: I'm archiving things for the derpocalypse
danielpbarron: you mean like archive.is ?
trinque: nah a command line thinger I can toss a url or regexes at and have it duplicate the site locally
punkman: trinque: there is no hope
trinque: lol, at least it will give me something to read til the power goes out
punkman: wget can recurse a bit
shinohai: snapshill bot
trinque: shinohai: link?
trinque: https://github.com/justcool393/SnapshillBot << this?
assbot: justcool393/SnapshillBot · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWHW1j )
trinque: has a bunch of shit regarding those archive sites in it
shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBot.rss
assbot: SSBot: this subreddit is private ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWI1lE )
shinohai: whelp thats dead
trinque: I'm just gonna bash script it up
trinque: regex match URLs, if it's from the same domain and not on disk, wget the shit
trinque: sounds easy
punkman: you'll be pulling your hair out soon enough
trinque: WHAT COULD GO WRONG
trinque: also keeping a running archive of my /usr/portage/distfiles
punkman: trinque: http://www.httrack.com/ might be of interest
assbot: HTTrack Website Copier - Free Software Offline Browser (GNU GPL) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWJM2i )
trinque: punkman: sweet, it's in portage. ty
trinque: punkman: that thing works great.
trinque: did exactly what I wanted; sane defaults; a++++
decimation: asciilifeform: amusing thread re: Guido et.al. discussing how how exactly they should fuck somebody trying to just 'import pkg' https://mail.python.org/pipermail/import-sig/2012-March/000430.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWNgBZ )
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174822 << that was me and juliatourianski_ at the "bitcoin free-roll" poker tourny at porcfest. We made it to the final table; she busted out on the bubble and I busted out right after that. Sold my 0.3 prize on the spot for 75 dollars (since USD is not so ironically the most liquid asset, even at a libertarian festival) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:19:40; mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?
mircea_popescu: ic
danielpbarron: related: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIhnfgZUcAEeEXG.jpg << b-a WoT group photo
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWQVzR )
mircea_popescu: o hey, pretty cool
asciilifeform: http://bgr.com/2015/07/08/hacking-tools-pita-encryption-keys-radio-waves << why is this ~2 yrs. plus-old project constantly in the nyooz
assbot: Hacking Tools: PITA uses radio waves to steal encryption keys | BGR ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWR4mK )
asciilifeform: while interesting things - nowhere to be found
danielpbarron: that's julia, me, birdman, and rassah (in the group photo)
asciilifeform: rhetorical q.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195567 << what's wrong with 'wget -m' ??! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 20:13:24; trinque: anybody recommend a decent web crawler/archiver?
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195171 << Viking recuntissance in North America happened at a pre-Apocalyptic time. By the Anglo Arrival diseases brought by the Spanish had left North America post-apocolyptic ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 17:12:48; asciilifeform: recuntissance by fire (tm)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 140 @ 0.07996427 = 11.195 BTC [+] {6}
BingoBoingo: Squanto was actual IRL implementation of a helpful NPC from Fallout
decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/ "However, some U.S. officials caution against taking actions against foreign states when the cyber theft is conducted for traditional spying motives. The United States has not officially named China or the motive, but privately officials say it appears China was conducting a form of trad
assbot: Hack of security clearance system affected 21.5 million people, federal authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWRQ3f )
decimation: wait wait let's not be too hasty here...
asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz!
decimation: heh
decimation: I would like to see the moral reasoning that leads one to believe it is 'ok' to 'conduct traditional espionage' but not the kind that 'can benefit industry'
decimation: I guess it's roughly the same logic that leads one to conqueror Iraq (or Afghanistan) and then pretend that extracting tribute is immoral
mircea_popescu: the only scandal here is that 21.5 mn people worked for the government.
asciilifeform: decimation: there is an official usg fiction that dirt lifted from 'airbus' isn't passed straight to 'boeing', etc
mircea_popescu: really, this should be in the constitution : not more than one person per million.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try 300 mn
mircea_popescu: !up Xemist
mircea_popescu: Xemist you wouldn't be al would you ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the funny part is that there are various limits, in fact, because actual civil servant gets pension, health cover, holidays, statutorily
mircea_popescu: decimation i like that the only thing said there is "we like china cock - so delishious!!1"
asciilifeform: so when i worked in an army lab, it was 1 actual usg 'green badge' for 25-30 'purples'
asciilifeform: (the latter - us, coolies - contractors)
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195302 << http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ Between asciilifeform and ascii_field actually most lines past 7 and 30 days ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:17:05; *: asciilifeform sick of being 2nd-most-lines
assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqTuPn )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: damn, that's even worse
mircea_popescu: get a lyf alf!
decimation: mircea_popescu: it was more like "what china is doing is okay because we do it too!"
asciilifeform: 'Not every spy’s data is in the system. The CIA conducts its own security clearance investigations and keeps that data to itself. Even so, some U.S. officials have said that a foreign spy service might be able to identify U.S. intelligence operatives by comparing stolen OPM records with rosters of U.S. personnel at embassies overseas.'
asciilifeform: ^ trivial. if fella works at embassy and ~isn't~ in the list, he's cia
mircea_popescu: decimation not at all.
mircea_popescu: it was, literally, "we like this kind of rape - the guy is strong enough."
asciilifeform: hey, the mega-cunt left vacant by su had to be filled
asciilifeform: cn fills it, if you also add a few pillows
mircea_popescu: i dun follow.
mircea_popescu: all i see here is, the usg is no longer a virgin. today, china raped them and they thanked it for the service.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow, i rape them, and they give me a congressional medal of honor for it.
mircea_popescu: either before that tomorrow or after that tomorrow, some arab kids too.
asciilifeform: the 'thanking' is not wholly stockholm syndrome, but is used to justify giving every other printed usd to the .mil contractors
asciilifeform: (the favourite sons)
decimation: ^
asciilifeform: which recently pioneered mega-innovations like switching to wholly-imaginary, rather than merely underpowered, airplanes
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter WHY she claims to have liked it.
asciilifeform: 'cybers33k0000rity' systems which actually spread crapware
asciilifeform: etc
decimation: mircea_popescu: sure it does, if she has a strap-on and another 300 men lined up
mircea_popescu: obviously it was for the children
mircea_popescu: whateverfor else
decimation: actually I predict this event will mark a turning point for usg
asciilifeform: how?
decimation: because now even the little kids growing up today will know what they are signing up for if they work for usg
asciilifeform: decimation: and in vietnam war they didn't ?
decimation: that didn't affect folks who just pushed paper
asciilifeform: so far i don't see any 'affect'
decimation: now even the janitors have to worry
asciilifeform looks out window for chinese gasenwagen rounding up folks on list
asciilifeform doesn't see one
decimation: well, if they are smart they will be a bit more subtle than that, but it's a fair point
asciilifeform: this is precisely what the pencilpushers mean by 'standard traditional intelligence gathering'
asciilifeform: it means 'business as usual', no gassings
asciilifeform: 'they have list' - 'we have list'
asciilifeform: 'parity'
asciilifeform: 'nothing happens, your bills are still due'
mircea_popescu: isn't asciilifeform cute :D
decimation: asciilifeform: the irony is that cn govt and us govt know what is going on, but the average usian voter is kept in the dark
mircea_popescu: what parity ?
asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/07/08/map-how-much-100-is-really-worth-in-every-state-2 << now check out new low of loathsome garbage
assbot: Map: How much $100 is really worth in every state - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqUrqP )
mircea_popescu: who exactly has the chinese lists ?
mircea_popescu: what on EARTH are you talking about ?
mircea_popescu: the us doesn't even have a fgucking missile spec sheet.
asciilifeform: (^ it is very plain that they disregarded real estate)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Official Truth is that all cn rockets are still run on asymmetric hydrazine
asciilifeform: and take ~20h to fill up
mircea_popescu: sigh.
asciilifeform: as designed by korolev.
asciilifeform: in '59
decimation: "The RPPs are calculated using price quotes for a wide array of items from the CPI, which are aggregated into broader expenditure categories (such as food, transportation, or education)1. Data on rents are obtained separately from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey (ACS). The expenditure weights for each category are constructed using CPI expenditure weights, BEA's Personal Consumption Expenditures, and ACS rents expenditur
asciilifeform: fact is, there are 20k usd houses and same building elsewhere for 2mil.
decimation: yeah, well virginia is especially lulzy
asciilifeform: and you would not ever guess this fact, from the linked chart.
decimation: as if the vast collection of trailer parks 'downstate' makes up for the $mil condos in arlington
asciilifeform: because its entire purpose is to throw smoke on it.
decimation: you would end up with that chart I posted yesterday, which shows that 10 counties 'own' the majority of us real estate wealth
asciilifeform: own?!
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: get fleeced, rather
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75521 @ 0.0005334 = 40.2829 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: by bank first, by tax collectors - perpetually
decimation: yeah, good point. the vast majority of the 'real estate wealth' I just mentioned is actually notional value on some bank's loan sheet
trinque: asciilifeform: this thing punkman linked lets me feed it regexes of interesting stuff to look for
asciilifeform: trinque: neat
asciilifeform: could use wget+perl
trinque: yeah that would work
decimation: anyway, the net effect of this 'govt secrecy' racket seems to be to keep secrets from usians, not from foreign spies
asciilifeform: in other newz, uncle al was smart. emailed me at my consulting co. to see if comment was from an actual human
asciilifeform: let's see if he remembers how to pgp
mircea_popescu: win.
pete_dushenski: decimation i continue to confuse the bsd's... for the edgerouter, i used freebsd as well !
decimation: ah that explains it then
asciilifeform: from thread on www: '"8^>) I'll stop by as soon as I push back some alligators.'
pete_dushenski: ayup. i can't seem to keep them straight.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^
asciilifeform: see thread
pete_dushenski: decimation mebbe if i knew wtf the difference was, i'd be of more use to others
danielpbarron: neato, and in "other news" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJgOvqFUwAAzEKy.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVlUl )
punkman: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-09/market-complexity-broke-the-nyse-before-saving-it
assbot: Market Complexity Broke the NYSE Before Saving It - Bloomberg View ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVkjc )
scoopbot_revived: Female Trouble http://trilema.com/2015/female-trouble/
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lmao you are there are you ?
danielpbarron: i wish, i suppose
decimation: https://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/msg138968.html < ah well then I am pleased to annouce that apparently openbsd will be supporting oceton usb in the very near future
assbot: Re: NetBSD has now support for USB on EdgeRouter Lite ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVxD1 )
decimation: at least, that's what I got out of that email
asciilifeform: if i were setting that thing up ~today~, i'd probably roll a 'buildroot' linux for it
asciilifeform: because to hell with having items that aren't in constant required use, in there.
decimation: asciilifeform: would you include binary driver turd?
asciilifeform: at all.
asciilifeform: decimation: why'd i do that
decimation: hehe
decimation: performance?
asciilifeform: it performs now.
asciilifeform: sans turds
pete_dushenski: o hey bloombergview figured out footnotes. they're catching on to the style, those nooz types, next is qntra-level content.
asciilifeform: 100% uptime since plugged in, early february
decimation: so is there an open source replacement for that driver then?
asciilifeform: never once coughed, sputtered
asciilifeform: decimation: there is not.
asciilifeform: it is running without the weird acceleration crap
decimation: well, there must be some level of 'basic functionality' the eth device supplies without it
asciilifeform: aha, like other chipsets
asciilifeform: it moves packets fast enough to keep up with my rotating disks
asciilifeform: i fail to see why i would need them to move any faster.
trinque: heh so far ate moldbug and uncle al's sites
trinque: trilema and loper I expect to be able to get via hamsterwheel shortwave gossipd someday
danielpbarron: trinque, is this a good candidate for archival? -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3;sa=showPosts;start=0
assbot: Latest posts of: satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToGJmx )
asciilifeform: trinque: if you need my site for anything, it's there
asciilifeform: no paywall
mircea_popescu: nice uptime.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's plugged into a massive ups
trinque: danielpbarron: the whole forum?
asciilifeform: (along with everything else that is worth anything)
danielpbarron: i lost my nearly 4 month uptime on my pogos when a tree took the power out yesterday afternoon :/
mircea_popescu: aha
danielpbarron: trinque, just satoshi's posts
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there is a dead-tree book containing 'satoshi's posts'
asciilifeform: i have it. has some extraneous garbage, but appears to actually contain... satoshi's complete posts
danielpbarron: is published somewhere?
danielpbarron will go, buy.
asciilifeform: http://www.bookofsatoshi.com
assbot: The Book of Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqVV4n )
asciilifeform: download for phree
trinque: call me paranoid, but yeah, I'm stockpiling information from now on.
asciilifeform: buy if you like dead tree
pete_dushenski: "Overall, the fact that the rise of top incomes has been much greater in certain sectors, such as finance, and among senior executives is more consistent with a pattern of rent (excess earnings relative to market-determined earnings) creation and extraction specific to those sectors than with a competitive market for skills." << because "market" is now synonymous with "fair". donchaknow.
asciilifeform: someone here might have told me that the fella who put that book together later turned sc4mz0r somehow
trinque: pete_dushenski: god.. the "fair market" is ripe for use as a propaganda term on their end
pete_dushenski: and because "competition" means worse people getting more shit free !
pete_dushenski: trinque seems to be moving that way
pete_dushenski: another word for socialists to reappropriate
pete_dushenski: because "the market doesn't work unless we make it work"
mircea_popescu: you generally know who the retards wish to be by looking whose words they try to misuse.
pete_dushenski: fascinating hubris, these guys.
mircea_popescu: currently, all signs point to... us.
pete_dushenski: 'all roads lead to rome'
pete_dushenski: or venice, as the case may be.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, aha the forward of the book is by berwick, the galt's gulch guy who got a write up in trilema
asciilifeform: what part of the linked text is false ?
asciilifeform: gonna tell me that the folks who service the money printers are paid 'for unique skills' rather than 'because who will stop them from taking every other bucket home' ?
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/be78def1cabf80ec440a73edf5dbbd7b/tumblr_n9svk1RoIs1s6dk4zo1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWfjD )
asciilifeform: is that even female.
mircea_popescu: sexist.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195371 <<< what can i say other than the longer i am sober the more inclined i am to head outside than sit here on pc ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 18:37:52; mircea_popescu: sounds like you reached the age of cazalla
trinque is slurping naggum posts from here http://xach.com/naggum/articles/
assbot: Erik Naggum comp.lang.lisp archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWpaQ )
asciilifeform: trinque: have you tried emailing xach for a copy of the archive and very spiffy browsing scripts ?
asciilifeform: that'd be the real deal
asciilifeform: incidentally, he's - as fas as i can tell - an actual person and probably would belong here.
trinque: I have not; could do that, yeah
trinque: would be great to grab all these http://www.xach.com/naggum/books/
assbot: The Erik Naggum Bookshelf ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqWICs )
asciilifeform: trinque: your stockpile probably isn't complete without a stack of 'mitsui' gold-reflector cd burns
asciilifeform: trinque: i bid on some of those
asciilifeform: the coveted ansi standard, in particular
trinque: baby-archivist steps so far, but I was looking at tape archive systems earlier :p
asciilifeform: it was gone seemingly minutes after he died
asciilifeform: never had a chance
asciilifeform: (the pdf you get if you're an idiot and pay ansi $20, or on warez - same, is an almost unreadable scan)
asciilifeform: i have wanted that thing for years. but i;m not paying usg 500 for a book
asciilifeform: esp. since i have it on good authority that they've been laser-printing that pdf
asciilifeform: for anyone dumb enough to pay
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: waitasec
asciilifeform: those aren't naggum's books!
asciilifeform: scam!
asciilifeform: fucktonnes of garbage
trinque: orly
asciilifeform: and i ~remember~ the list from his estate sale
trinque: yeah "adobe flex for dummies" lol?!
trinque: I dunno, maybe this included the basement books
trinque: heh osu has throttled me for pulling too many distfiles from them
asciilifeform: original was at http://www.flownet.com/ron/Cat_Naggum.06.10.pdf
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqX9wI )
asciilifeform: but long gone
asciilifeform: it did not have garbage.
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/books/catalog.pdf << here we go
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gqXdfI )
asciilifeform: notice, none of the american pablum
asciilifeform: and none of the microshit
asciilifeform: how those got in the other list, i do not know
trinque: cool, ty
asciilifeform: about to post a de-pdf'd version
asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJHYb )
trinque: nice
trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJOTN )
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
trinque: derp
trinque: not signed
asciilifeform: 1sec
asciilifeform: try now
trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToJTXE )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: dafuq
trinque: bwah?
asciilifeform: i motherfucking signed it
trinque: yeh, I'll figure it out
asciilifeform: wtf did that ~other~ list come from
danielpbarron: idk if anyone else had tried this already, but I sent some bitcoin to an address created by 0.5.3.1-beta on my pogo, and I think I have successfully sent it all back out but bc.i doesn't want to admit my transaction exists yet
asciilifeform: it made me want to throw up
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when carrying out this experiment, please remember that pogo HAS NO RNG
kakobrekla: yet
danielpbarron: i sent in 0.001 and sent out 0.0005 with a 0.0005 fee
kakobrekla: we will be bolting it on shorty.
kakobrekla: lulz
trinque: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/c/cd/Locutus_complexion_drain.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130214005126&path-prefix=en
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToKgkW )
danielpbarron: also, BingoBoingo's proposed change to 0.001 of the minrelayfee is very handy for keeping pogo synced
asciilifeform: ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^
trinque: this python-gnupg is a motherfucking piece of shit
danielpbarron: was formerly a dozen or so blocks behind, after restart with new setting, almost fully synced in half an hour
asciilifeform: sure is!
danielpbarron: no patch necessary; it's a config option
trinque: like... I'm just going to shell out to the gpg binary
trinque: ENOUGH.
asciilifeform: trinque: know that gpg was built just like this.
asciilifeform: like gcc was
asciilifeform: doesn't 'libraryize' at all - by design.
asciilifeform: i imagine this was done for similar reasons as for gcc.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^^ i dare to suggest that the patch be considered by therealbitcoin ^^ << This is a bitcoin.conf option
decimation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datum-Symmetricom-BC635PCI-U-PCI-Time-and-Frequency-Card-BC635PCI-QTY-Avail-/161733020476 < for folks wishing to create their own usg-free ntp server
assbot: Datum Symmetricom BC635PCI U PCI Time and Frequency Card BC635PCI Qty Avail | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToLWe6 )
decimation: appears to have onboard ocxo, which the datasheet claims 5e-8 stability - about +/- 1.5 seconds per year
jurov: ..at 25 +/- 0.1 C , no?
hanbot: !rated jurov
assbot: You rated user jurov on 24-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: A dili-, intelli-, gent..
jurov: lol my name's day here
hanbot: !rate jurov 3 A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/4b856e57905757bc
hanbot: !v assbot:hanbot.rate.jurov.3:7d94608b06d5546bfb17e08573890583b92baec4a8e2116ff570e0ffe5a8f477
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 1 to 3 with note: A dili-, intelli-, gent. Eulora copper merchant extraordinaire.
jurov: meh. not exactly cutting my own throat
ben_vulpes: GOOD AFTERNOON
BingoBoingo: Oh United Nuclear has graduated to selling metallic Uranium in quantity https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_8&products_id=1078&zenid=b7a1b3d5deedd67923024b5154d3d3ea
assbot: Uranium Metal, large samples : United Nuclear , Scientific Equipment & Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1CsMVpi )
asciilifeform: decimation: what's that thing do
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't see anything oven-like
asciilifeform: or large enough to be a ru oscillato
asciilifeform: r
BingoBoingo: ^
asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Cesium-Beam-Frequency-Standard-5061A/151274829277 << cheap!
assbot: HP Cesium Beam Frequency Standard 5061A | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToP1Ln )
asciilifeform: less than my computer, even
asciilifeform: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/primary-frequency-standards.cfm << illustration for n00bs, of usg's cesium fountain
assbot: primary frequency standards ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToPahF )
asciilifeform: iirc the tube's good for about a decade
asciilifeform: so probably not such a deal after all.
asciilifeform: http://www.ieee-uffc.org/main/history-atomichron.asp << historical
assbot: IEEE UFFC | History | Atomichron: The Atomic Clock from Concept to Commercial Product ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToQzVJ )
trinque: asciilifeform: the text of that message silently crashes or hangs python when **printed!!**
asciilifeform: 'Though the instrument spoke well for itself, National continued its promotional efforts. These were misplaced, for there was in those early years no commercial market. Ninety percent of those first fifty Atomichrons were purchased by military agencies for their own installations and for loan to other government facilities, university-operated military laboratories, and university laboratories. The other 10 percent were purcha
asciilifeform: sed by other U.S. and foreign government agencies. Apart from their evident utility as frequency standards in laboratories engaged in research in that field, or responsible for the maintenance and transmission of standard frequency and time signals, there was at first no well-established application for these instruments. '
asciilifeform: trinque: wai wat
asciilifeform: which messag
trinque: also cannot copy/paste and reupload to dpaste. dpaste gives me a blank screen after POST
trinque: asciilifeform: naggum's lib on your server
asciilifeform: dpaste gave me a 'too long'
trinque: I just grabbed it with requests *and* verified it with the gnupg turd by hand
asciilifeform: trinque: can you get me any output from the crash ?
trinque: it doesn't say shit, but trying, yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00053037 = 3.7391 BTC [-]
asciilifeform realizes with horror that he owns perhaps 90% of the titles in naggum's library list
asciilifeform: if not more
mats: u r naggum
asciilifeform: not dead of colitis yet...
asciilifeform: i suppose when i end up with ~all~ the bookz - then.
trinque: deedbot- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/naggums_library.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ToRWnk )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: trinque: so what was that about
trinque: solution being... use less python
trinque: asciilifeform: dunno, python was choking on the string silently; maybe I'll investigate more later
asciilifeform: python 2 or 3 ?
trinque: as for now, I made curl and gpg kiss via the shell (quoted of course)
trinque: python 2
asciilifeform: iirc 2 chokes on just about anything other than straight ascii
asciilifeform: guess there was a uniturd in there, somewhere
asciilifeform: probably the norwegian titles
trinque: towards the end, yeah
trinque: and I'll be curious at 5:15 whether it shits something verifiable on deedbot.org
trinque: for now, I depart
asciilifeform: later.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19392 @ 0.00052413 = 10.1639 BTC [-] {2}