BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seriously of you can't affor quality student, just buy more poor students
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 23:09:41; mircea_popescu: no, they won't. they'll sit there and cry.
mircea_popescu: i bet the "controversial" ceo now uses his vast wealth to fucking hang the entire troop of assholes, including the da involved.
☟︎ phf: no an american woman
BingoBoingo in other news is finally trolling craigslit looking for an affordable heavy bag + stand combo
cazalla: stands are shit BingoBoingo put a pole and bracket up in ya backyard and hang off that
BingoBoingo: This is going in a basement space where a prior retard fucking drywalled the basement ceiling
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61250 @ 0.00076138 = 46.6345 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: cazalla: could be, does have that Catlyn Jenner look going on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45766 @ 0.00075296 = 34.46 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54750 @ 0.00074798 = 40.9519 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20170 @ 0.00076163 = 15.3621 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: BECK$ on Twitter: "@danielpbarron I'm personally too busy to kick your ass but don't worry I'm sure someone else will" ... (
http://bit.ly/1WhlLYq )
BingoBoingo working on making sure someone else won't when it comes to kicking Bingo's ass
BingoBoingo after last outing with steel pole in the back yard picked up a pair of sweet gel bag gloves today. The steel pole felt like butterfly kisses wearing them.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 231.05, vol: 19360.19909638 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 228.727, vol: 9050.40035 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 232.38, vol: 19624.07560481 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 233.75, vol: 1.0114 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 234.764763, vol: 22527.21820000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 228.6, vol: 155.15770741 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 232.695018096, vol: 49.36617696 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 00:20:26; mircea_popescu: i bet the "controversial" ceo now uses his vast wealth to fucking hang the entire troop of assholes, including the da involved.
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 14:34:46; mircea_popescu: does anyone even use that thing ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: SInce it is old news but super trending I'll have a piece on the particulars of this FDA sanctioned pharma racket in the next day or so
BingoBoingo: But the short story for #b-a regs is this a a corn problem. If you can you must, and the FDA says you must,
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: COnsider though that this particular pharma slug is taking the other pharma slugs demanda upon the FDA to their logical extreme
BingoBoingo: He realizes that he has an easy button to get ALL of the dolalrs
BingoBoingo: Only scandal is he is a young buck taking the old stags to task
BingoBoingo: Imagine if someone bough a symbolics machine or Unix 7 and asserted re-Patent rights?
BingoBoingo: And in pharma when it happens they have steroids
BingoBoingo: Darl McBride's sphicter was chronically relaxed, prolly too much botox.
BingoBoingo: Pharma has had a few more "soft power" understandings. Like if the Jews in Israel at Teva can break even on a generic it isn'r really abandoned and such.
BingoBoingo: The differnce between Darl and this pharma lol-cow is all this one does is use the rules exactly as intended without ambiguity
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure. Darl was a lolcow because he forced his position on ambiguity. This one though lolcows by hitting everything and only those things he is explicitly allowed to.
BingoBoingo recomends if one gets malaria one ought to do so outside the US at the moment
BingoBoingo: Sure, it galls at first them you heal... and the scar galls
BingoBoingo: Or Obamacare breaks... pretty sure the goal here was breaking Obolacare
BingoBoingo: But this is not the first dirt cheap drug to turn uranium plated by any stretch
BingoBoingo: Uric acid, still expensive after being under a dollar per arbitrary time span supply
BingoBoingo: Anything necessarily more expensive must be injected because monoclonal or delicate living origins
BingoBoingo: But even now those things are going from treatments for the rare and debilitating to treatments for the common and hammy
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Consider bupropion, the one USG blessed mood regulating dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Simple chlorinated amphetamine on the ring. I wonder more who can't make it than who can
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22533 @ 0.00076219 = 17.1744 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron watch the guy being like 112 lbs and really awkward too
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> why this particular schmuck was chosen as the whipping boy of the day << was in the news recently, '87 born catamite of "tiger fund" gonzo increased price of some shitty expired patent medicine nobody else was manufacturing because us is as springy as a dead halibut.
BingoBoingo: Actuall rather commonly used medicine. Part of 'Malarone' the premier anti-malarial cocktail.
BingoBoingo: But now the solo drug costs more than the combo.
BingoBoingo: Never mind the cheaper combo is more effective against what either treats and gets literally all the save-Africa subsidies
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> but the 'research' is not happening. << this is a point.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> But even now those things are going from treatments for the rare and debilitating to treatments for the common and hammy << exactl;y, and these two go together. we're now at the point where "important" vaccines for purely imaginary conditions are being pushed out. srsly, some people get nonspecific pain from what may be a viral infection ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00076182 = 12.4177 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, now most of the new "biologics" released in the US are for various forms of "autoimmune" arthritis but not really.
BingoBoingo: They work more on repetative load injuries.
mircea_popescu: one of the most lucrative and so often targetted by pharma spaces is where doctors go "dunno, let's try this. and that. and then see."
mircea_popescu: that's 100% of psycho, and most of nonspeciffic pain (which only exists because gps wanted a loophole to prescripe medocal social security to healthy men) and then "old age/shit habits" diseases. like some arthitis types (aka gout)./
BingoBoingo: But seriously the big malingering complaint is now labeled "fibromyalgia" and there is actually a therapy that keeps these hams sated. Stong compounded mixes of tricyclic antidepressants and NSAIDS.
BingoBoingo: Then the knees fail mechanically due to the load they bear.
BingoBoingo: Gravity has been and always will be the ultimate shitlord
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36600 @ 0.00076265 = 27.913 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, poloniex lost its 50% eth trading marketshare. now #3, #1 being something "gatecoin"
BingoBoingo: Seems the Bitbet even slowed a bit after the bet.
BingoBoingo: Some folk must really want to fuck mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah, haven't seen any deca BTC bets since the qntra
mircea_popescu: kinda been degrading tho, curious if there's the required 1-200 btc left in the eth cheerleader camp to get it back on target.
mircea_popescu: lkol wait. 21 thing won't accept btc for its "product" ?
assbot: Prepare yourselves for the assault on Ethereum by certain hostile elements within bitcoin community. : ethereum ... (
http://bit.ly/1YBdAZ1 )
mircea_popescu: "certain elements" are "attacking" the re-ripple thing by pointing out that it's stupid and pointless. TO THE BARRICADES!1
BingoBoingo: !up psztorc You know you dun got voice nao
mircea_popescu: recommended reading for asciilifeform just because i know he's a livresque masochist.
BingoBoingo: psztorc: Appologies for not replying to your email with wisdom, but my momma told me not to talk to strangers
psztorc: I suppose I'm a "certain hostile element with bitcoin community".
psztorc: The second one in the Eth link you just posted
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He's got some sidechain betting thing, but more than that dun liek huffing ether
mircea_popescu: "Truthcoin is my ambitious project to create a trustless P2P prediction-marketplace. This is possible because, unlike most marketplaces, the end product of a prediction market (PM) is information. "
mircea_popescu: you understand the fundamental problem with trying to create a "decentralized market" do you ?
mircea_popescu: jesus reddit is retarded. omg not even wrong where to even start /me abandons the entire thread.
psztorc: The fundamental problem is tying the market to reality, without invoking a trusted 3rd party.
mircea_popescu: well no. the fundamental problem is that the function of a market is to centralize trade. decentralized market is like cool boiler.
psztorc: Can't a decentralized market centralize trade?
psztorc: One is a process, the other an outcome.
mircea_popescu: this argument is not even apparent if people were spherical cows in a vacuum. but as people are, it's impossible to obtain an outcome by opposite process.
mircea_popescu: dja know of any example from nature where something like that happens ?
psztorc: Would you say that Bitcoin centralizes all transactions in one blockchain database?
mircea_popescu: depends where you're taking it. this could perhaps be said.
psztorc: When I say "decentralized", I mean it the same way Satoshi meant it: headless and immortal. The individual traders still all "meet" in one "place".
psztorc: In the project I designed.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why it actually is trustless. but also why it's irreversible.
psztorc: When I say meet, I mean same database.
mircea_popescu: but the "meet" in "market" has a different intension from "meet" as in "sql join".
mircea_popescu: in this sense, "the earth centralizes the imago-es of all astral bodies, as their light projection". nevertheless, the earth is not a black hole.
BingoBoingo: How a trusted third party could possibly be agreed upon though is among the most centralizing mechanisms possibru
mircea_popescu: to take a step out of the purest theory closer t oactual practice.
psztorc: You may be right about whatever you are talking about, but in Truthcoin the operations performed are almost exactly the same as existing Bitcoin transactions.
psztorc: To enable people to use Bitcoin in markets, and bet on real world things.
mircea_popescu: but in the original terms. "in Truthcoin the operations performed are almost exactly the same as existing Bitcoin transactions".
mircea_popescu: well bitbet is plainly a central market for clearing risk.
psztorc: What "is" is a different question than what "is for".
mircea_popescu: ok. it's for clearing risk in a centrally-controlled environment.
mircea_popescu: (clearing, obviously, is a term of art, in finance. it's the process whereby definite items are recognized by others. very similar to the function of a torens title registrar, or the births book, or the military despatches.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00076274 = 15.5599 BTC [+]
psztorc: Are we still on "why bother"?
gernika: Is it impossible to implement a public forum on a decentralized architecture, such as a dht?
psztorc: Don't you ever miss all of the lovely pdf formatting?
mircea_popescu: gernika a) would you agree that the superset of this inquiry is the bbs and b) would you say it meets definitions of either "forum" or "decentralized" as you use them ?
BingoBoingo: psztorc: No one really misses anything about pdf when they quit
psztorc: Well, I can pastebin it for you.
mircea_popescu: "What if you had access to the combined intellectual powers of all mankind? It would be easier for you to make decisions." << you know, not only this does not follow, but the contrary is actually recorded as anecdotal observation by pretty much all sources. like say russell.
gernika: mircea_popescu: I can see a bbs as a public forum, yes. The decentralization is not as clear to me, at least not in the way I used them. I only ever dialed into one.
gernika: and it had all the porn I needed.
mircea_popescu: but you will notice you downloading porn and the functioning of a market are unrelated.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the question here isn't whether you could stuff the heart of an ox, the guts of a pig and the lungs of a horse inside the skin of a skinned goose.
mircea_popescu: the question is whether the animal so obtained will quack.
gernika: The problem I see is that there's no profit motive for the market owner, because there's no owner, so no one will drive the thing to work. Which I hope relates to your last point.
mircea_popescu: ""Whereas a stock market is a place to buy and sell shares of a corporation’s earnings, a Prediction Market (PM) is a place to buy and sell predictions. Valid predictions entitle their owner to $11"" << this, foir the record, is horrible writing. do not mix things so far apart the abstraction scale, it confuses idiots and it gives smart people the impression your abstractor really has very little breadth.
psztorc: That was actually a footnote. It was $1 in the pdf
mircea_popescu: why would it be a magic number and why would the number reference an undefined concept.
mircea_popescu: suppose i read this in 3030, at which point no fucking body knows what $ is, and we decide it stands for "trustcoin"
psztorc: I'm specifically choosing not to target the 3030 audience.
mircea_popescu: "The current market price of these tradable predictions can then be interpreted as the likelihood of the prediction coming true." << because, why ?
BingoBoingo: The paper honestly reads to me as BitBet ad copy
psztorc: Those statements are not original research...they're lifted from several mainstream scholars, econ textbooks, wikipedia "prediction markets" article.
BingoBoingo: Just with BitBet it is hard to lose to butthurt retards
mircea_popescu: you're perhaps unfamiliar with the saying "traduttore, traditore".
mircea_popescu: careful what and whom you steal from, lest you get poisoned.
psztorc: These are very basic concepts, not exactly plagiarism.
mircea_popescu: "When anyone can trade, no source of information is overlooked, and market forces balance
mircea_popescu: info-sources in a way that is consistently and unanimously acceptable." << like that.
mircea_popescu: none of this stands to actual scrutiny, but hey, peopel got enamoured with whatever that irish thing was called, and it got to die a hero's death so we'll hear about it like we wouldn't have heard if it just died naturally.
mircea_popescu: but leaving aside the entire "prediction market" thing, lemme try and find the actual coin discussion.
psztorc: What type of thing would change your mind?
mircea_popescu: " Television has a gift for simplifying and communicating ideas" << o lordy.
mircea_popescu: ok, indulge me. give me an example of an idea that was so communicated by television.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00076274 = 22.738 BTC [+]
psztorc: What follows that section are youtube videos to tv clips about prediction markets.
mircea_popescu: "i once got formed an idea while in front of the tv ergo tv has a gift" ?
psztorc: That sentence is not a claim that I make.
psztorc: It is in the pdf formatting that I am continuing my explanation of prediction markets in a different way.
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin is P2P software. It was not ever designed for other people to store your money; it was designed for you to store your own money." << can you prove this ?
mircea_popescu: or at least shore it up past the nude declaratory thing ?
psztorc: What exactly do you disagree with?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00076181 = 18.5882 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i disagree with the notion that whether bitcoin was designed for people to hold own money or opm follows from bitcoin being p2p ; that there is a way to differentiate between opm and yom. and other things
psztorc: You can't tell the difference between money you own and money that other people own?
mircea_popescu: there's nothing magical about money being "your own". the situation where you own house A, and live in house B which is identical but you rent ; and the situation where you own house A and live in house A is imaginary.
mircea_popescu: im sorry. the DIFFERENCE between the two situations is imaginary is what i mean.
psztorc: Replace "own" with "control" if you like.
mircea_popescu: and thje best example to verify this is, a situation where you and another guy sit in a bar for the space it takes to drink two drafts each.
mircea_popescu: whether each pays his own each time in silence, or you buy one round and he buys another round is nil.
mircea_popescu: this is why money is important, this annullment of a perceived difference.
psztorc: What I wrote has nothing to do with fungibility.
mircea_popescu: as the saying goes around here, you might not be interested in fungibility, but that doesn't prevent it from being interested in you.
psztorc: Again, I am interested in fungibility.
psztorc: But I didn't write about it in that paper.
mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin businesses that oppose this intent by holding customer funds (for example the currency exchanges) lose those funds regularly." << except mpex never did. and bitbet never did. and so on.
mircea_popescu: together these make up a good 90% of bitcoin busiensses.
mircea_popescu: now, feel free to generalize on the remainder 10%, but it is not unlike saying "men are evil and should be locked up".
mircea_popescu: "Although businesses can prove their solvency, proof of future-solvency is impossible, and even solvent Bitcoin PM-businesses would be able to steal funds by trading on and then reporting incorrect prediction outcomes." << this is a feckless misstatement of the situation. a centralized business is predicated on the trustworthyness of its living owner. whose word is, to repurpose a JPM quote, "worth more than all the bo
mircea_popescu: (do you happen to be familiar with the exchange i'm referencing there ?)
psztorc: I know that you own and operate MPEX
psztorc: and of course I'm familiar with BitBet
psztorc: I'm familiar with some of JPM's history
psztorc: How do you square your 90% figure against MtGox's loss of 850,000 Bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: the proposition that mtgox was a bitcoin business is tenuous.
psztorc: My understanding was that MPEX's volume was much lower than that, let alone total stored.
mircea_popescu: you don't think walmart is a tide business for instance, do you ?
psztorc: But I think that all Bitcoin exchanges are Bitcoin businesses.
psztorc: It is a question of definition...I chose to define it that way.
psztorc: What definition do you use?
mircea_popescu: well, for starters, they priced bitcoin in dollars not dollars in bitcoin.
psztorc: And BitPay claims to process over 100,000 Bitcoin per month
mircea_popescu: these claims must be novel. ever since they forgot to mention how shockingly little they processed for "black friday"
psztorc: that's a lot more than MPEX's volume
mircea_popescu: but no, the various hanger ons trying to insinuate themselves in bitcoin do not by this desire actually become part of the thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway : consider that when mp said mtgox goes away, mtgox actually went away.
mircea_popescu: much to the disbelief of the entire collected "foundation" & assorted jesuses, captains of industry and whatnots.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the jpm thing is more important, so let's get back to that for a second. the matter was put to him, in a congressional hearing, "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?"
psztorc: I'm afraid I couldn't find the definition.
mircea_popescu: "Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it...Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."
mircea_popescu: the notion that "proving" "solvency" which is to say, having money may somehow buy character, and on it trust.
psztorc: Of course, as I'm sure you know, "credit" comes from the latin "cred-" for "belief/faith"
mircea_popescu: the only thing "proofs" will do is make people optimize for the exam. that is all.
psztorc: And the sentence I wrote was to explain exactly why "proofs of solvency" are insufficient (which you have just restated)
mircea_popescu: "Although Bitcoin does not solve our PM problems, it demonstrates that a blockchain can provide scalable, censorship-resistant, and trustless solutions. Blockchain solutions also generate efficiency by cutting out middlemen and avoiding overhead costs (no brick-and-mortar, compliance, administration, etc.)." << this is miserable. what exactly is "solutions" supposed to mean ? and more importantly : the blockchain settl
mircea_popescu: ement device is BY FAR the most expensive, cumbersome and unwieldy mechanism for settlement ever devised. it was not even feasible to contemplate before computing and major bandwidth was available.
mircea_popescu: the entire "bitcoin is efficient" thing is very 2010s naivete. it is anything but.
mircea_popescu: it's ironclad, sure. but a tank has not very good fuel economy.
psztorc: For a given level of security, the payments are now cheaper.
psztorc: Also, I'm sure you've heard of the Lightning Network.
mircea_popescu: ok, sure, for a given level, as long as that level is very high, they are in fact cheaper.
psztorc: Well we have to compare apples to apples don't we?
psztorc: Hey, when you wanted to read Satoshi's pdf whitepaper, did you like ask a friend to print it out for you or something?
mircea_popescu: "My design was able to solve a few other PM-problems as well. Any user can create a market about anything, removing the dual-requirement that a PM-administrator must not only be trustworthy, but also share your prediction-interests. Market scoring rule technology ensures that trading volume is irrelevant, and traders will always be able make a trade updating the price to their estimation (even if they are the only trad
mircea_popescu: because if i want to sink your chances, understand, all i need is to quote this and snicker.
mircea_popescu: suppose you're in a VC office trying to close a deal. and i drop by to take the guy out to golf.
mircea_popescu: and you're like, almost there, and all i do is recite that and laugh. you're out on your ass.
psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: uhm. what ungodly sort of post structuralist lacanian approach to finance is this supposed to be!
mircea_popescu: fiat, delta knowledge on valuation. i doubtr you'll find anyone who even will entertain the approach, within finance. but moving on :
mircea_popescu: whence in the everloving fuck will you summon into existence counters for all the solo traders trading with no one ?
psztorc: That isn't post structuralism... PS is when the audience is supposedly more important than the author's text or intent.
psztorc: This has nothing to do with that.
psztorc: I could link to a pdf on market scoring rules
mircea_popescu: or you could keep it simple, and explain why your excel spreadsheet isn't hard at work finding boyfriends for all the very fat lonely feminists out there.
psztorc: MSRs are a formula which relate [1] the current quantity of outstanding shares (of mutually-exclusive states) to [2] an account filled with money.
psztorc: The traders, although you can put some money in the middle (which you'll lose) to create...
psztorc: The derivative of [1] share quantity happens to be the prices.
psztorc: People propose updates to the share quantity, and can locally calculate how the account [2] would have to change.
psztorc: If they pay the right amount, the trade goes through, otherwise it does not.
psztorc: Again this isn't something I made up, a physicist designed it like 15 years ago and it is currently being used in a few places. With play money at SciCast.
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda puzzled why the problem is not directly obvious.
mircea_popescu: i mean srsly nobody cares if you came up with it or clark gable did. that's not at issue. and in general "original research" is even a topic only among the wikitards. it's not a legitimate consideration.
mircea_popescu: but as to the experiment : suppose your coin exists. suppose it has a total issued volume of 1mn coins. suppose i own them all, because i'm an asshole and i buy them all.
psztorc: A given claim is more likely to be false if only one person has assessed it.
mircea_popescu: now, suppose i make a bet that tomorrow will be a solar eclipse.
mircea_popescu: for instance : when i put 1 btc on the theory that ethereum dies by the end of the year, i got liquidated 5:1 within hours.
psztorc: From you, you'll win all of your own money back.
psztorc: If you really own all the coins, and you didn't put any in the middle, your first share of Yes will cost you 1.
psztorc: As will your 2nd and all the rest.
mircea_popescu: i really don't care what they cost. i am taking them all.
mircea_popescu: and i expect to see fair liquidity. say 10k to 1 against me.
mircea_popescu: where will ten billion coins spring for to liquidate my position ?
psztorc: You traded 1 mn coins for 1 mn shares
psztorc: the 1 mn shares became worth 1 mn coins again.
mircea_popescu: there's not gonna be any sort of solar eclipse tomorrow.
psztorc: Well then you lose all of your coins...
psztorc: In that astonishingly unlikely scenario, no one.
psztorc: They're just inaccessible.
psztorc: You're the only one who did anything.
mircea_popescu: so your liquidity has a problem in simply materializing from the, if you'll excuse the pun, the ether ?
mircea_popescu: understand, the scenario is in no sense astonishing or at all unlikely. the scenario repeats itself 100% of the time in your model, just, you're not usually well instrumented to notice this.
mircea_popescu: unlike in my example, where i scrubbed off all incidentals that may hide the matter.
psztorc: What exactly is your question?
mircea_popescu: this is not a question, it is a statement of fact. counterintuitively, perhaps (not sure why, but this only happens to some people), your addition of a coin to the problem has in fact worsened your efficiency, by introducing a significant friction factor.
mircea_popescu: all this in an attempt to solve poorly an already solved problem (solved by centralization).
mircea_popescu: ie, your attempt to get fatties laid already suffers from the "wide area low height" problem. putting a coin on top of this is just crushing it into oblivion, and going exactly tyhe opposite directionm of solving it.
psztorc: And yet, you change the subject so frequently.
psztorc: Do you believe that MSRs have a liquidity problem?
psztorc: Market scoring rules, which we were just discussing.
psztorc: Feel free to use your fast knowledge to evade more questions : )
mircea_popescu: you know, the abbreviation happens to already have a meaning, in the space.
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure what "market scoring rules" are. but by the excel reference i vaguely expect a bayesian atrocity.
psztorc: There are Bayesian versions
mircea_popescu: understand : rules are generally powerless. the soviets had rules about how capital should be allocated.
mircea_popescu: didn't help them, especially once they didn't have the capital.
psztorc: Almost as predictable as your question dodging.
mircea_popescu: how about you get registered in assbot so i can give you a rating so i don't have to keep doing the upping.
psztorc: I thought I had, like a year ago. Does it expire or something?
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278736 << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires are station
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 18-09-2015 18:54:21; pete_dushenski: either a) when anything plugs into the obd-ii port, or b) the whole thing is a parallel construction to keep ze germans at bay against tbtf 'domestics'
pete_dushenski: ary. The vehicle could otherwise interpret the test procedure as a dangerous situation or malfunction, activating traction control or stability control. By enabling a test mode, the vehicle will be able to operate during the test process. Once the test is complete and the car is restarted, the car reverts to its normal function. And once the cars are in on-the-road mode, nitrogen oxide levels increased by 10 to
mircea_popescu: well what do you want me to do. they don't, per se, have a liquidity problem, not being the sort of thing that may have a liquidityy problem. they simply have no relation to liquidity whatsoever.
assbot: psztorc is not registered in WoT.
psztorc: Well I tried to do it when I discovered your blog, which was like last autumn.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00076274 = 16.6277 BTC [+]
assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: if (rear_wheels_stationary_while_front_wheels_in_motion()){while(1){pollute();}}
psztorc: !register 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key F162C410 / "Paul Sztorc (Truthcoin) <truthcoin@gmail.com>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
mircea_popescu: !rate psztorc 1 Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.psztorc.1:d864f2f84f1203a928a97576d8edb2bc1231e49eb6b35d20b368ed1070206df2
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for psztorc with note: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47018 @ 0.00076274 = 35.8625 BTC [+] {2}
psztorc: I should edit that because PT did finish reviewing it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2732 @ 0.00076287 = 2.0842 BTC [+]
psztorc: Yeah, I couldn't convince that guy that markets aren't gambling.
mircea_popescu: of which i mostly know because some derps on reddit kept being butthurt at bitbet existing or somesuch.
psztorc: Stole from me and in the process of being poisoned.
psztorc: pete_dushenski: markets have prices which vary, producing useful info. gambling prices do not vary / static uselessness
mircea_popescu: "stole". you're an idea guy, correct ? how can you be stolen from ?
psztorc: I don't consider poker gambling, personally.
pete_dushenski: mebbe psztorc is american and is used to 'betting lines' ?
mircea_popescu: THAT's not betting. it's just like college ponzi, a scamatron.
mircea_popescu: "For millennia, there was suffering and misery. Can you imagine a world without music, or eyeglasses, or DayQuil?" << wut is dayquil ?
pete_dushenski: psztorc: btw, even 'lines' change y'know. so... not static. so... time for a new definition !
mircea_popescu: and yes, /me grew up in a world without glasses. or divorce.
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 13:57:38; mircea_popescu: (which happens to be true, architects know a lot about how buildings may be, and for this reason nothing about buildings that are)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00076287 = 15.8296 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: what, like architects only design new buildings ex nihilo on greenfield sites ?
pete_dushenski: in alberta, sure, this is often the case, but this is the overwhelming exception
pete_dushenski: architecture is as far more about existing buildings, topographies, and spaces as 'the new stuff'
pete_dushenski: ultimately, architecture takes place in and around other architecture
pete_dushenski: 'modernisations', 'reskinning', and other forms of revamping that rely on the existing bones of a building are what keep cities alive and allow neighbourhoods to go through multiple phases of waxing and waning
pete_dushenski: without understanding the way buildings are, there's really no architecture.
pete_dushenski: sure, if you're fresh out of school, you know dick all, which is quite specifically why architects aren't 'licensed' until damn near a decade of practice
pete_dushenski: and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project
psztorc: Well, this has been fun but it is getting to be past my bedtime.
pete_dushenski: it's an old, hierarchical industry. architecture moves incredibly slowly. and quite rightly so as its products ~have~ to last decades, if not centuries.
cazalla: pete_dushenski, nope but that is lulzy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93100 @ 0.00076311 = 71.0455 BTC [+] {5}
cazalla: totally to be expected as well, which is probably why they did it to begin with
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project << maybe we'll allow your argument re civilised places. but in the us specifically, none of the stuff you discuss ever happens.
pete_dushenski: who knew that canada was the cultural mecca of the americas ?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell psztorc "BetsOfBitcoin Also old, yet closed Mysteriously. Funds stolen or missing. " << nothing mysterious about it. back in 2012 inaba was pushing the bfl scam, had a deal with the various "bet site operators" to allow bets on bfl delivery and then anull if it doesn't deliver. betsofbitcoin went for it, got called out for it, was dead after that.
https://bitbet.us/bet/7/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-befor assbot: BitBet - BFL will deliver ASIC devices before March 1st :: 791.29 B (47%) on Yes, 898.53 B (53%) on No | closed 2 years 7 months ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1KzV49K )
mircea_popescu: and the "MtGox-failure, a failure that itself resulted in the loss of 6% of the circulating Bitcoin money supply." verbiage is particularly ill advised. the bitcoin mtgox lost never circulated for the most part, in that they were imaginary.
mircea_popescu: similarly, all sorts of derps on "bitfinex" and assorted scum are currently booking imaginary bitcoins they "will get in the future". except they don't, but their losses aren't of bitcoin, they're losses of "bitcoin",
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:32:30; psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.
mircea_popescu: what if we don't fucking want to buy bullshit lucas crap at any price, and what if we would gladly pay for that crap to not even have the possibiklity to exist ?
mircea_popescu: what of all good films that never happened because that shit existed, and who pays for the damage britney spears did to music ?
mircea_popescu: what if hollywood never existed altogether and i wouldn't have to explain to sane people from the future why the fuck exactly is it that every woman in every film has a permanently affixed bedspread righ above her tits for some reason ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: as to liquidity, hot damn if i don't see it now. only 6 hours into this yom kippur fast and i'm always too slow.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the amusing thing if one actually reads the above linked thing is that the proponent of truthcoin objects that ethereum bets won't work because they're not bitbet. which is a correct point, but leaves him in the lurch.
mircea_popescu: "Ultimately, as Bitcoin takes over the internet, all non-Bitcoin projects (of any kind) will be treated with the ridicule afforded a US resident who tries to pay for his milk with Japanese yen. Eventually, interest in using a non-Bitcoin will fall to zero. Altcoins, even somehow-useful ones, don’t have a future." << and the proper link for this is, of course,
http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-i assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1j8LgNl )
mircea_popescu: "Getting the Good Authority In the old days, competition kept Authorities in line. For example, in The Merchant of Venice, Shylock is trying to get a contract enforced by an Authority:" << heh, look at that.
mircea_popescu: mkay, /me has had enough of this poorly sourcing of material. srsly, buncha quotes to tardipedia ? none to actual source material ? mmmkay.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48200 @ 0.00076332 = 36.792 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63671 @ 0.00075896 = 48.3237 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71854 @ 0.00075657 = 54.3626 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00075673 = 17.4805 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77900 @ 0.00076466 = 59.567 BTC [+] {7}
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 230.45, Best ask: 230.59, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 230.4, 24 hour volume: 13586.41889803, 24 hour low: 225.9, 24 hour high: 233.95, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00076312 = 37.1639 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163900 @ 0.00075521 = 123.7789 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28896 @ 0.00075328 = 21.7668 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214669 @ 0.00076097 = 163.3567 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20593 @ 0.00076428 = 15.7388 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00075915 = 7.3638 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00075277 = 25.2554 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.000751 = 31.7673 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40500 @ 0.00075397 = 30.5358 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3708 @ 0.00075915 = 2.8149 BTC [+]
assbot: All the 'Happy Birthday' song copyright claims are invalid, federal judge rules - LA Times ... (
http://bit.ly/1V9gfKg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.00075915 = 35.4523 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32753 @ 0.00075915 = 24.8644 BTC [+]
shinohai: Still the same, casting a lot but no bites :/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129600 @ 0.00076497 = 99.1401 BTC [+] {7}
shinohai: "Who knew giving away stuff to strippers is going to turn into some sort of criminal case, seriously now." <<< Love hanbot
punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)
☟︎ shinohai: I've never seen strippers turn down *free fucking money* mircea_popescu
shinohai: 1 whole BTC yet, thats pretty generous
mircea_popescu: it would seem the "popular mechanics" interpretation of the internet in the common mind (which is what everyone no matter how brilliant in selected fields reverts to anwyay, in a process we call "the memory hole effect") is something like "the internet is an implementation of god - and a god that cares at that".
shinohai: Think what could have happened for a few of them with just a little research. Mighta found a way to invest said bitcoin into many times that by now :/
shinohai: I'd put it in coinbr, but I didn't know of this place in 2013
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00075353 = 22.3798 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: I am seeing a correlation here though. You are practically giving away btc to artists that are doing it anyway, but most are too lazy to open a webchat and come to irc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the people killed in my recent drawing.
mircea_popescu: because you know, bitcoin is not backed by lulz and drama anymoar. it's backed by inept pencildicks in pretendsuits.
mircea_popescu: anyway. it just amused me as a case of "bug shaped man confused that the future doesn't seem to belong to him."
mircea_popescu: yes, were that to be the case it would easy to be confused.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 01:36:58; asciilifeform: also usg giveth, usg taketh away. a 'pharma ceo' has so much as one cent purely by the good graces of hitler - who helpfully keeps penny-a-pill indian generics mostly out of u.s. market
mircea_popescu: and this is not (one of the) tor deanonymization tricks.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 13:54:22; punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)
pete_dushenski: so anyone crazy enough to have plunked down 150 btc on ethereum's pre-sale would take home ~1`100 btc + whatever chunk of the bitbet they so desired before closing it out
mircea_popescu: punkman so i guess now we find out that "those were fictive" ^H^H^H^H^H^H ppls really believe in teh technologee.
jurov: asciilifeform: many apps pull gnome/kde libs
pete_dushenski: or better yet, 'civil gentlemen who don't do things like betting'
pete_dushenski: 'because gambling is uncouth and only done with vegas bookies using their scammy lines'
mircea_popescu: yeah, they're into this for the money, except they only want to make money by going long. shorts are bad mkay.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this'll sound strange, but shorts are 'pessimistic' and even 'cynical' in the eyes of the large-foreheaded
jurov: asciilifeform: i meant these cases where the libraries spawn processes on their own
mircea_popescu: right because there's a fundamental difference between equations that come out positive and equations that come out negative.
mircea_popescu: like 1/x -4 is entirely a different thing from 1/x +4.
shinohai: Top minds of #bitcoin-assets: Is or is not Pope Francis a socialist?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu yeah should prolly bump the initial bet to .1 instead
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the problem i see is this : forcing bets removes their signalling capacity. if i increase the minimum i just remove meaning from money.
mircea_popescu: now it's just 0.01, which means we suck the meaning out of a cent. if minimum becomes 0.1, we suck the meaning out of ten cents. which may be too much,
mircea_popescu: basically this might be one of those situations where regulation is a loser.
mircea_popescu: might be why the "2 btc minimum on sports bets" thing introduced last year nigh on killed sports. that may need to be taken off.
mircea_popescu: but basically... it never occured to me that in point of fact bitbet's minimum acts as a tax. and a lot of other things in here never occured to me. i'm still reeling over the whole pile.
mircea_popescu: anyway, im taking the local devs out for a breakfast hackathon. bbl.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00076877 = 29.2517 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: Thanks jurov. Seems today he is with the democratic socialists.
lobbes: you also gotta love how he feels qualified to endorse the 'climate change' scam. smells like a usg appendage to me
funkenstein_: the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin
funkenstein_: while itunes listeners, CD collectors, and arena concert attendees are part of musical history like redditors with circle accounts are part of bitcoin history
lobbes: I'd argue that 'music' is just fine, but it is the 'popular music industry' that suffers today. But, the masses have come to expect (tm) as they say
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: vw is under investigation for 'studying to the test' atm. i'm sure they'll be slapped with a big ol' fine by usg and then watch their sales fall by 10-20%
lobbes: yeah, didn't they alter their code to 'switch' when it detected testing or something similar?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73666 @ 0.00075727 = 55.7851 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:55:31; pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278736 << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires
ben_vulpes: lobbes: usg tentacle is the catholic church's only future existence
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform that'd truly make it a little shop of horrors!
pete_dushenski: lobbes: in essence, the usg's continued insistence that, in every regard and in every field, the map is the territory, is used to trip up both citizens and corporations wherever and wherever it might be convenient
ben_vulpes: funkenstein_: can't really hold the streetwalker responsible for the condition of the streets now can you?
pete_dushenski: and vw's hindleg is stuck in a trap from which is must now chew its way out
pete_dushenski: "Why rape? Because as an artistic gesture, it's one of the most impactful I can think of... It dawned on me that if the work [we local artists] created had never existed, the world would be no different than if it had. None of it mattered to anyone outside of our small and insignificant circle of peers. I wanted something that would have more impact...I want to make it clear that I plan to make the experience as
pete_dushenski: unpleasant as I possibly can to anyone who dares to crawl through the tunnel. I will try to the best of my ability to make them regret their decision...I'll try my very best to sexually assault him or her. The tunnel is constructed in such a way that it gets smaller the closer you get to the project room. The bigger you are, the more difficult it is to comfortably crawl out. And trust me, I have a lot of secret
pete_dushenski: s up my sleeve to ensure that I can overpower anyone that comes through the tunnel."
wywialm: shinohai, depends on the definition of socialism
wywialm: i'm no expert on catholic teaching, but under charitable interpretation, Pope Francis is not outside catholic guidelines on care of the poor and principle of subsidiarity
pete_dushenski: pope poverty-spec isn't exactly breaking the mold here.
wywialm: pete_dushenski, to be fair, i'm not sure how this relates to Pope Francis official teaching or private opinions
pete_dushenski: wywialm: the idea being that xtians are the original socialists, if not the jews before them.
wywialm: as i stated earlier, this depends on the definition of socialism
pete_dushenski: so expecting francis or any other clergyman of 'the people' to expound the virtues of capitalism or sanity is like expecting a potato to grow legs and start running marathons
pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources
☟︎ wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist
☟︎ wywialm: the catholic teaching on the subject (afaik) is that there should be no redistribution, but that there are obligations to the poor that should be met in a non-centralistic manner
wywialm: also, the effect - the redistribution - is not the virtue, charity, i.e. voluntary act is
wywialm: and the virtue is the preservation of the moral order of society, of which private property is an essential part
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0007597 = 17.5871 BTC [+] {3}
wywialm: what must be said, though, that in his private utterances, Pope Francis leaves much space for uncharitable interpretation
wywialm: e.g. his adhortation he issued just after election
wywialm: to my knowledge, it does not have a status of an official teaching
wywialm: evangelii gaudium, if i remember correctly
wywialm: note that there is no latin text
wywialm: the same goes with his recent encyclical
ascii_field: l0l, that pope is in town today, neon signs warning of it on the 'beltway'
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell pope_francis are you too much of a 'man of the people' for latin now ?
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: he's a vat.-II-compliant pope
ascii_field: iirc in usa somewhere there is a spare, schismatic pope who isn't
pete_dushenski: i'll leave that bit of homework to others, wywialm perhaps
ascii_field: 'Whem I'm released, the only restriction I have is travelling for the first few months. Other than that, Im allowed to use the internet. Im debating wether to buy the blackphone when I get out or just root an android ' << win
wywialm: ascii_field, incidentally, the Vat-II does not mandate majority of His actions, beginning but not ending with the Mass and ecumenic policy
pete_dushenski: "56. While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyrann
pete_dushenski: y is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions. T
pete_dushenski: he thirst for power and possessions knows no limits. In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule." << every socialist hashtag wrapped up in a single paragraph. no points for guessing who wrote.
ascii_field: wywialm: pope has ~actions~ !?! who else, queen of denmark ? emperor of jp ?
wywialm: well, the pope has vastly more power on His subjects than queen of denmark, if this is what you mean
ascii_field: 'Confinement in any institution such as Lewisburg is never a pleasant experience. Every attempt is
ascii_field: s institution one in which each man has the opportunity to “make the most”
ascii_field: of his time. It is important that each inmate follow the rules of the institution in order that all
ascii_field: may live in comparative harmony without fear or threats or intimidation.'
ascii_field: 'In January 2009, USP Lewisburg began a mission change converting to a Special Management Unit (SMU) facility. Therefore, the information in this handbook is for the general population inmates only (Cadre Unit).' << this is worth explaining. SMU is a series of 'special prisons' where folks are held incommunicado. instituted under bush II
pete_dushenski: despite paul's opinion to the contrary, there's always a trilema reference somewhere
pete_dushenski: wywialm: in any event, that's a 'world's tallest midget' competition. the pope is still just a politician representing way too many people and interests to be effective
wywialm: again, only to my knowledge, he does not represent any 'people', however considered
shinohai: I brought up the subject due to the statement he made that "I am not a socialist" yet in my limited knowledge of the subject, he has a lot of socialist ideas.
wywialm: and this sentence, shinohai, is probably very close to truth
shinohai: trilema, is there any knowledge it doesn't contain
shinohai: This bs >>> checkpoints.cpp:59:1: fatal error: opening dependency file obj/nogui/checkpoints.d: No such file or directory
wywialm: pete_dushenski, he may try to speak as the voice of the 'people', but it is clear to me that it is way outside of his mandate as a pope
pete_dushenski: wywialm: ok. i'll bite. what's the pope ~actual~ mandate ?
shinohai: To distract people from child-diddling with his flashy outfits ?
wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church
☟︎ phf: shinohai: you're probably missing src/obj/nogui folder?
shinohai: I'll try manually adding it. I'm in the habit of deleting object files when a build fails
shinohai: (-__\) #facepalm that was it ...
phf: i think there was a conversation at some point how diff/patch doesn't create empty directories and you have to resort to .keepme hacks, it was suggested that the correct solution is to patch makefile.unix instead, but i don't think that was done
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: "Because in spite of prices being involve," << missing a letter here
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:13:59; pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources
pete_dushenski: that the pope follows jesus' teachings to the letter would be like obama following jefferson's
wywialm: pete_dushenski, there is no letter in Jesus's teaching to be followed
wywialm: that does not however mean that his power is arbitrary
pete_dushenski: "It is not poverty, but prosperity, that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires many things – none of which is equally distributed around the world or even within a given society."
danielpbarron: > Paine rejected the teachings of "any church that I know of," including "the Roman church." << me too (with the exception of that one, which I found almost by accident through a mutual interest in the Ron Paul presidential campaign)
lobbes: atruechurch.info << this one?
danielpbarron: I met the author of that site, and a couple of his daughters, one of his sons, and his sister and her son, oh and his mother
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: kill all the rich people when they get past threshold
danielpbarron: and on the topic of socialism vs capitalism and the Bible, see also:
http://www.atruechurch.info/slavery.html >> Believers in the first century owned slaves (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1; 1 Timothy 6:2), and they were not instructed to let them go; but rather, to treat them with justice
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: this'd be too hard to measure and even harder to enforce. honestly, a sterile male clone army is simpler.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "As such, I would find it absolutely essential, in order to take this question to its logical conclusion, to murder everyone in my constituency extant and to replace them with an army of sterile maleviii clones (perhaps with the help of Monsanto because I hear they’re pretty good at this sort of thing), whom will be raised by robot nannies, so as to control for the differences between parenting qualities and s
wywialm: pete_dushenski, you don't have to convince me that pope allows himself statements that sound dangerously leftist
pete_dushenski: wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' ?
thestringpuller: Add some soma and other drugs in the mix and you have robotic people who don't care about wealth but "maintaining" the machine that spawned them. Honestly in this context a differentiation of male clones would benefit society in the same way the Irkin empire in Invader Zim came to power.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: because that opens the door to an untold number of personal fantasies, as has been previously discussed in the logs
wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite
☟︎ thestringpuller: At that rate instead of limiting wealth, why not make the leader of society the person who happens to be the tallest, (if that is everyone is bred to be the same height but due to anomolies one or two individiuals are much taller than the rest)
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: because the leader is the breeder, not the slave clone ?
wywialm: do what he says as interpreted as charitably as possible and in the light of the whole catholic teaching
wywialm: what pope means is not more interesting than your average intellectual
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: actually no. in this context the leader is bred of "the machine".
thestringpuller: lets say we have a breeding machine that breeds all humans.
wywialm: what he says, in particular what he says officially and marks as his official teaching, is way more important
wywialm: however, this pope doesn't seem to be bothered by such things as 'official text'
thestringpuller: In this scenario I would say all men are a slave to the machine. Without the machine the species ends.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: mkay then the issue at hand is from whence we derive this 'charitable interpretation' if not from his 'meaning' rather than his 'words'
pete_dushenski: either pope's words are his words and stand as they are, or else they have an alternative and alterior 'meaning' and can be 'charitably interpreted'
wywialm: well, catholicism has not begun in 2013 and not in 1965 as well and there is plenty of context to be applied
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: and the machine came about naturally ? just like that ?
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 18:24:29; wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite
wywialm: yes, that is what i'm trying to defend
pete_dushenski: you seem to be doing a very circular and specious job of it :P
thestringpuller: Well lets say the machine was created by protohumans (pre-machine humans), and then as a result became slaves to the machine
thestringpuller: the protohumans eventually die off and what is left is a human race dedicated to maintaining the machine, in the sense of the zerg protecting the hivemind. Here the machine is the leader not a man.
wywialm: i'm not particularly interested in Jorge Bergoglio's opinion and what he means, i'm rather scared that this is far away from i'd like to hear
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: can the machine have lazers ? for shooting non-tall slaves ? but then one tall one survives the blast and becomes the leader of the resistance ?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: is jorge too socialistic for your taste ? or ...
wywialm: but i'm interested in what is the Pope's teaching on the subject of helping the poor is
thestringpuller: Random L0L: I'm Charlie Shrem, Bitcoin Pioneer currently in Federal Prison. << I'm tempted to ask, "Is your butthole still tight?"
wywialm: if this sounds ambigous to me - and it does - i'd check what is the context of what the pope says, and this is e.g. his predecessors
wywialm: yes, jorge bergoglio *sounds* way too 'leftist' for me
assbot: Logged on 19-09-2015 03:02:00; mircea_popescu: nobody's getting "anally dilated" in prison dude. wake up and smell the coffee, erections are rare.
thestringpuller: Look at that smiley baby face! We've all seen shawshank redemption.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:14:26; wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42092 @ 0.00075996 = 31.9882 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: to wywialm there may be, tis what i'm interested to find out
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: i've always wondered, by definition, does socialism prevent natural selection?
thestringpuller: By forcing society to be "equal" doesn't that benefit the stupid more than the fit?
phf: doesn't cathoic church has a deedbot of some sort? i'm more familiar with orthodox system, but presumably they come out every once in a while to updates for canon and the catechism, "we found the previous belief that 10 angels can fit on a head of a needle invalid, and on the account of recent scientific developments in nanotechnology, we are now convinced that the correct number is in fact 17" sort of thing
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: see, 'socialism', while we tend to use it in this manner here, doesn't ~have~ to refer to the societal level. it can also refer to, say, the family level, wherein it works quite well and, yes, prevents natural selection, which'd be the point.
phf: in which case whatever pope says is basically his personal believes as a famous public figure
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i hope not. i said that Bergoglio sounds leftist, because that is in my opinion broader than (at least economically understood) socialism
wywialm: but i think there is difference between saying that about Bergoglio as Bergoglio, and as Pope Francis
pete_dushenski: phf: catholic church definitely revised its opinions from time to time. see galileo.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: when you say from a family level (which is more decentralized in context to global societies socialism), do you mean immediate family? Dad Mom Borther Sister? Or do you mean a larger lineage: grandpa, grandma, aunt uncle cousins?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: nope. that just doesn't wash. this is the EXACT same shtick as 'opinions of ceo of megacorp are not the opinions of megacorp'
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i'm a little bit familiar with the galileo case, and i wouldn't put it as an example of revision of doctrine
thestringpuller: and even here wouldn't socialism in the family unit prevent natural selection only temporarily?
pete_dushenski: this rationalist dualist approach to division of the same mind holds no water.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: families are very personal things, up for each to decide where to draw the lines of 'close enough to care about'
wywialm: i do not believe that pope has opinions, simply put. what pope says is what pope says *officially* and not to the journalists at the airport
pete_dushenski: there's no official v. unofficial distinction to be drawn. none whatsoever.
wywialm: i wanted to point that the level of officiality (at least by catholic criteria) is ambiguous even with most publicised texts, such as his adhortation or encyclicals
wywialm: we have to disagree on that point
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: yes but the affect of "preventing" natural selection from occurring in the family unit is only temporary. even d00d protected in parents basement until his 40's may never have kids. (or perhaps the barrier to having kids is so low the termporary shield against selection of any sort gives unfit offspring the opportunity to spawn with other unfit offspring i.e. idiocracy)
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: imo in both these cases, it's detrimental to the species since the weak are perserved for no other reason than "because I can and I love my son/daughter".
wywialm: there is difference between what i say loosely, what i say clearsigned and what i sign and put on the deedbot
wywialm: no, as the pope does not sign with only his personal key
pete_dushenski: there's no 'maybe he didn't say that' when it's verifiably on the record.
wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :)
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: your 'imo' as to the merits and value of intrafamilial socialism doesn't stand up against the biological and historical record.
wywialm: also, he is bound by what has been signed by them
wywialm: i think this is a good metaphor
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: but this isn't caveman times when women would fuck you based on how awesome of a hunter you are.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: hunter fucks women, not the other way around.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: my mistake; but intrafamilial socialism was beneficial in allowing the species to use "strength in nubmers" against say the wooly mammoth and sabertooth tiger.
thestringpuller: In this instance I'd think weakest hunter is used as cannon fodder.
thestringpuller: In modern times it seems to enable stupidity rather than squelch it.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :) << doesn't add up with >> also, he is bound by what has been signed by them
pete_dushenski: pope either owns the keys of his predecessors, and therefore everything they've every signed, or he doesn't and then he can pick and choose what to sign with his own key
wywialm: he cannot contradict what they chose to sign with these keys, can he?
pete_dushenski: either way, he is bound by what he says on record. not what he 'means' in the context of whatever arbitrary third parties may deem to be relevant teachings of his predecessors
wywialm: but what he says is not obvious
pete_dushenski: while you ALSO say "'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite"
thestringpuller: Showed him a bunch of bash.bitcoin-assets.com quotes and he was like "is this guy russian?"
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i already tried to clarify what i meant on 'what he says'
thestringpuller: mod6: seriously he is a music reverse engineer. He can listen to a song and write down the chords on a single listen.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: yes, 'signed statements only', which still doesn't wash in mine eyes, but seems to be a matter of perspective.
pete_dushenski: i guess you're free to do business with people who have this duality is you so please :)
wywialm: if you meet, say, Warren Buffett, and he tells you 'sure, I'll give you some money', do you expect the cash to come from his personal funds or from BRK accounts? I'd expect from any officer to distinguish between his private actions and actions of his office
wywialm: and with pope, the actions are primarily teaching, so i strive to keep this difference there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00075012 = 31.8051 BTC [-] {5}
wywialm: in particular, when i do not approve of his certain actions, i assume them to be his private and not official, unless proven otherwise
mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin << still, i'd pay a little for it not being possible for britney to exist. and garza idem.
mircea_popescu: if we can have an arrangement where these peasants are opressed into the dirt by boot to the face, i'm willing to forego ipads in exchange.
wywialm: quite slowly, but fine, thanks, and you?
assbot: BitBet - BTC to top $700 before November :: 5.03 B (4%) on Yes, 118.82 B (96%) on No | closing in 2 weeks 2 days | weight: 38`035 (100`000 to 22`000) ... (
http://bit.ly/1FuQ1uw )
mircea_popescu: srsly, the odds bitcoin breaks out next month are worse than 10:1 ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25409 @ 0.00075129 = 19.0895 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Fear assumes limitless possibilities: the thing you fear has infinite power, infinite resources, infinite resolve, unknown identity. Hate comes when you know them. Cyril Connolly did not say, "if it bleeds, we can kill it." But he should have."
mircea_popescu: banal shit, but : there's two kinds of men. there's those who assume the usg is anon all powerful ; and those who've killed usg agents after being bored to tears by their inept begging.
assbot: Issue 460 - google-security-research - Cisco AnyConnect Secure Mobility Client v3.1.08009 Elevation of Privilege - Google Security Research - Google Project Hosting ... (
http://bit.ly/1FuR9hF )
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:25:48; wywialm: please ask the Pope
ascii_field: 'The fix for this issue seemed to be modifying the file verification process to only allow a signed file which also has in its version information the original filename of vpndownloader.exe. This, along with the name change makes it clear you only want to execute the VPN Downloader application. However the code doesn’t limit the location of the executable file, so one exploitation vector is DLL planting. The downloade
ascii_field: r loads a lot of DLLs from the executable directory first, so by copying the vpndownloader.exe file from Program Files to a temporary directory and dropping an appropriately named DLL you can get code execution as SYSTEM.'
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:58:16; wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church
mircea_popescu: anyway. the pope has one job and one tool. his job is to provide non-breaking answers to any questions that can't otherwise be resolved or set aside. his tool is infallibility, which is to say that if he speaks ex cathedra he can't be wrong.
mircea_popescu: this is almost exactly what the master of a harem is, for that matter.
wywialm: re: infallibility, indeed, though i'm not sure if this is his only tool
ascii_field: when's the last time he pulled that trigger ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i very much doubt there's that many people who are the intellectual equals of the task. the catholics decided that this must be so, but setting that doctrine aside, i find it dubious in practice.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's the problem, the task is made significantly harder by previous idiots who didn't understand they were pulling the trigger.
mircea_popescu: think of catholicism as much harder programming with immutability baked in.
ascii_field: in engineering this used to be known as 'design space shrinkage'
wywialm: he has more ordiary tools at his disposal, the infallibility is the ultimate. He may excommunicate, promulgate canon law, issue church penalties, issue magisterial statements, accept & decline ordinance of bishops
mircea_popescu: the ordinary tools are predicated on the tool. much like i will go "do i need to pick up the stick ?"
wywialm: let me only make the provision that the application of ordinary tools, while depending on the power you refer to, is not infallible (just to clarify, in case it's not obvious)
mircea_popescu: anyway, "voice of the people" pope is a gross misunderstanding of the entire thing already.
mircea_popescu: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it,
wywialm: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it << that is another good point
assbot: Opción preferencial por los pobres - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i thought it was a kgb front
mircea_popescu: anyway, the heretical, unwelcome, incorrect, impudent, poisonous, insolent, frivolous, vulgar, coarse, brazen proposition that the poor are not lesser humans but more, in contrary of nature, obvious fact and the manifest will of any conceivable divinity.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 19:03:27; ascii_field: holy fuck is this thread a snore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28264 @ 0.00075198 = 21.254 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Mustaches and beards are permitted so long as they are kept clean and neat."
wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00075113 = 28.8809 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00074873 = 34.5165 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00074822 = 43.4716 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo starting to wonder if pogo could ever run bitcoind and a form of p2pool at the same time
shinohai: Interesting thought BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Would likely require a deturded p2pool with a gossip sort of "pool with people I don't think are shitheads" Wot mechanism
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: we don't have anything remotely close to a pogo-capable bitcoind.
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:11:51; asciilifeform: rewinding to,
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: of course that is an obstacle.
shinohai: I have faith in you ascii_field
BingoBoingo: pogo may end up better suited to simpler #b-a services that emerge than serving bitcoin proper
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gotta understand why i even opened the issue to begin with. the dependence of therealbitcoin on pc hardware is an extreme danger.
BingoBoingo: dependence of gossipd (whenever it emerges) may face geater danger
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gossipd is a computationally very lightweight thing, and also does not suffer from network effect
ascii_field: i.e. if three people have it, it is just as useful as if 33 did
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: But the "network effect" in the sense of putting up more relay nodes with various people's trust preferences reduces DDoS risks
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: correctly-implemented gossipd is intrinsically ddosproof.
ascii_field: but who said you had to have just one wire.
BingoBoingo: The answer to the problem is not "tomato-watermelon hybrid"
BingoBoingo: K1NGREX: That is an awfully declarative IRC nick
shinohai: Doesn't "Rex" mean king in Latin anyway ?
BingoBoingo: Dammit they edited the story before archiving to introduce part of the eggplant truth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74080 @ 0.00074786 = 55.4015 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00074622 = 19.5137 BTC [-] {2}
shinohai: Somehow, I just don't think he's gonna respond to me on that.
mircea_popescu: must suck to be reduced to trying to support yourself through whoring out your name, which you gotta keep telling yourself is somehow valuable. which it isn't, but desperate scammers don't have other options and who knows, really stupid noobs may not know any better.
shinohai: I can't find *any* contribution he really makes to the space besides increasing popcorn share prices.
shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron
☟︎ mircea_popescu: this is actually a valid question to ask the muppets. "name a venture roger ver was associated with to any degree that didn't fail".
mircea_popescu: and no, "bitcoin" is not an acceptable answer. what's next, "hey, he was an inmate at pleasant valley and it didn't fail either" ?
mircea_popescu: he's definitely more closely associated with the cdcr than with btc.
shinohai: Has Ver ever made an appearance here?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4283 @ 0.00074621 = 3.196 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50117 @ 0.00074559 = 37.3667 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: Yogi Berra, a Hall of Fame catcher for the New York Yankees whose mangled syntax made him one of the sports world's most beloved and frequently quoted figures, has died at the age of 90."
pete_dushenski: “Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical.”
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:33:35; pete_dushenski: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29319 @ 0.00075212 = 22.0514 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I was about to say earlier that one of the people on my shortlist of Satoshi candidates died today.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 20:26:20; wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.0007439 = 22.8005 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24163 @ 0.00074329 = 17.9601 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58800 @ 0.00074272 = 43.6719 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:18:50; shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron
shinohai: I figured one snappy tweet was enough for him today anyway. First one was pretty good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00074238 = 9.1313 BTC [-]
phf: is there reason why openssl docs snip by Marcel Hernandez is not part of canon?
phf: oh i see what it is , nm
phf: shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way?
shinohai: Nah I am experimenting with an arm build and deleted the folder myself, forgot to add them back like a genius.
BingoBoingo: Weird, I was smoking out front and saw a camaro with the license plate "For USD" or maybe "For USO"
shinohai: Feebs are checking up on ya BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: shinohai: I just kinda assume that nowadays. Apparently one of the local 5-0 lives in the duplex across from this house, but the only sign I get that he lives there is he stops there on breaks and says he lives there
BingoBoingo: Not the weirdest thing though. The weirdest thing was seeing a train full of open top coal cars going through town from WEST to EAST
shinohai: I feel safe knowing our government has it's eye on you, you're so dangerous and all.
shinohai: Wasting money for no obvious reason.
assbot: sha256sum wot_users.sql.gz : 19156ac26b3007ee5d78dd7e882c2ba7228f0cef61a2bb2579e08a5e81836c9d
assbot: sha256sum wot_ratings.sql.gz : f76d906ae56e1c2582e66ef3427e0fcd7a5319d69fcfcbec0a7bcf1e02db5de0
assbot: sha256sum trustlist.txt : 97b2a0630c22d02ae4c604a0caa031b72d6db600fdf788ffd78ca939f3d1d348
BingoBoingo: Seriously though why would a train carrying coal move through the area around St Louis from WEST to East?