assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00053847 = 14.1079 BTC [+]
jurov: what's v_diddy about?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00053847 = 7.7001 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49200 @ 0.00053759 = 26.4494 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: Got a few secs for that build?
shinohai: Or at least tell me what that crap was I had to install before the V build
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00053847 = 3.3116 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13715 @ 0.00053747 = 7.3714 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 01:07:30; shinohai: Or at least tell me what that crap was I had to install before the V build
shinohai: @ asciilifeform I have had a tumultuous few weeks with the HD crash, gotta rebuild V
shinohai: Actually, it has only been a week, but new gentoo and all :/
mod6: asciilifeform: so I basically built this script which builds a pressed v0.5.4 via my V implementation inside of rotor
mod6: i got it to work 2x for me, and trinque ran it... shanohai is gonna try it out.
mod6: anyway, all thats really required to ensure it works is that perl is installed, Graph::Easy is installed, and that keys are named as <wot_id>.asc in the hand created ~/.wot dir.
mod6: yah, parts of this script are old and need to be changed. it's certainly not finalized. just trying to find out if the rest is doing what it should.
mod6: yeah, bit more stuff is required. hoping to get it wrapped up in the next few weeks here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00053847 = 5.0885 BTC [+]
mod6: was hoping that it would be useful in the way that it could be used by testers to do a final push on functional testing for TEST2
shinohai: I know I'm behind mod6 but I am hoping by mid next week to get the Ubuntu test done I promised.
shinohai: I shouldn't kvetch. That shell is really reliable and it isn't even my box.
mircea_popescu: not only do idiots converge with other idiots - but their confidence increases as they do so.
mircea_popescu: wisdom of crowds, useless to negate systematic bias, etc.
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 02:43:51; asciilifeform: mr mold had a hilarious piece on the subject, involving a game of chess played by vote
v_diddy: jurov: are you familiar with Sean Combs?
BingoBoingo: Puff Daddy, then P. Diddy, then Diddy, then Sean's Combs inc.
BingoBoingo: P. Diddy also did: "On June 22, 2015, Combs was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon by the University of California, Los Angeles Police Department. He was accused of assaulting one of his son's football coaches after witnessing the coach yell at his son. His son, Justin Combs, plays football for the UCLA Bruins." << Because not even entertainment stars can spare their children the gladitorial arena
shinohai: Possibly they stopped learning.
shinohai: "They are in fact, the last bastions of mediaevalism left in modern society outside, perhaps, the church." <<< I like it already, because though I do not believe in God, I am somehow drawn to the church for just that reason.
v_diddy: except that if they sleep with their students they still get canned.
v_diddy: BingoBoingo: funny, hadn't heard that one.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (typical u.s. state uni employs largely 'lecturers', who occupy approx. same place in the org chart as an air conditioner mechanic) << air conditioner mechanic comparatively makes bank compared to uni lecturer, and often professor
BingoBoingo: v_diddy: Mr. Combs is not a candidate really to lecture at Ben & Pete's Skoolarium
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a thing, thick jacket with applied elbow patches, certain haircut, certain glasses, laptop-like case on shoulder, open collar shirt...
v_diddy: i don't think pete's actually interested in /building/ the skoolarium
☟︎ mircea_popescu: we're not discussing here random derp making 63k a year from community college, we're discussing here krugman or w/e his name is, the nyt resident finance derp
v_diddy: much less doing it to pound sense into his own spawn. could be wrong though.
v_diddy: ;;later tell pete_dushenski ^^
mircea_popescu: also these guys don't teach anything whatsoever. they mostly try to be carrie from sex and the city, except without the sex.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: These creatures exist even at regional colleges, check "humanities department." Seems they adopted the uniform from Hollywood.
v_diddy: anyways, four days a l'hopital, 36 hours of labor
v_diddy is taking some fucking paternity leave
mircea_popescu: also this is what you get for not favouring birthing hips!
BingoBoingo: Dayum v_diddy so how many babbies were there?
v_diddy: i like my secular christian babes
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> kim could have been done in 36 minutes. << Not anymore. Not with the new FUPA since she let herself go.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of those fellows on the linked page actually to my knowledge draws not one, but TWO professorial salaries from the same university.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00053899 = 10.4564 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: One of the other jacket people may also be drawing a second salary now too.
mircea_popescu: "That specific issue reveals an important bias and misunderstanding America has when it talks about employment. Yes, there is an issue about people wanting to work but the other issue is that the global economy is too quick and efficient to tolerate your idiotic car troubles or your imbecilic grandmother's death or your moronic lack of child care (cue Scandinavia) or, and mostly, your stupid health. The economy was a
mircea_popescu: Ferrari and now it's only a Honda, but either way, not much time for absences and no time at all for Keisha's learning curve. Keisha isn't just unemployed, she is completely unemployable. We can argue whether auto plants should pay $20/hr or $50/hr, but for certain there is no market for unskilled labor at all."
v_diddy: mod6, hanbot, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: naphex's been trying to hire skilled cocksuckers ; i've been trying to hire skilled pr ; bitbet still needs skilled bookies
v_diddy: asciilifeform: doesn't this thread devolve into "there's precious little market for anything not supported by usg"?
mircea_popescu: there's a huge market for all sorts of skilled and a large pile of people who want skilled to mean what they want it to mean.
mircea_popescu: which is fine, but it also means they gotta run their life as a business.
mircea_popescu: then stop bitching and make those warrants / shares worth something.
mircea_popescu: that's the measure of skilled in a life run as a business
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:46:39; asciilifeform: 'this problem will not be solved for you personally, pray that your grandchildren get to live like people' <--> 'but i don't want to have children, i want to live like people ~myself~'
v_diddy: "must be rich to not send kids to school"
mircea_popescu: v_diddy how do you plan to extract value from the offspring ?
v_diddy: no, don't send kids to school. make them put up molding in the remodel. they learn something, the thing increases in value.
v_diddy: make them shred papers. they learn something, biz gets shit done.
mircea_popescu: either that or they waste the consumables, break the tools and injure themselves.
v_diddy: has yet to happen with /anyone/ i've taught to use power tools.
mircea_popescu: "You will observe the Keisha does not even have the enthusiasm to know what is written on the most important economic documents of her life. "I don't know, bipolar, panic attacks, whatever they put on there." She can't be bothered to handle those papers, someone else is in charge of that. How attentive will she be to the frier? McDonalds doesn't want to find out."
v_diddy: tending the aquaponics, banging together a new dome, romping unattended in the neighbors fields not incurring costs...
v_diddy: failure of imagination, i tell yas.
v_diddy: how do you draw the line between pets and livestock, asciilifeform?
v_diddy: that's not livestock it's a pet
v_diddy: or if it cooks, cleans, builds, still pet.
trinque: you'd have to come at the thing by determining the value of your time, then the amount of time and resources devoted to the kid, what the kid ends up producing of value, does this offset the development period...
trinque: but I'd be fine to consider my kid an art project
trinque: at any rate it'll be fun to see what comes of your direction v_diddy :)
v_diddy: what, you calculate the worth of a twenty lying on the street?
v_diddy: value is apparent to some people.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck is /mode #bitcoin-assets +b *!*@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net do nothing ?
v_diddy: mircea_popescu: enjoys programming i see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00054193 = 28.9391 BTC [+] {3}
v_diddy: asciilifeform: are all financial products of knowable value?
v_diddy: cfd, futures, options etc.
v_diddy: but perhaps with judicious selection and market knowledge one can over time make some money.
v_diddy: farmer who has 10 children 6 of which survive, 3 of which are useful on the farm doesn't calculate either.
v_diddy: mircea_popescu: programs like american
v_diddy: does schmuck attempting to hedge against total collapse of local civilization calculate ROI of expanding meatwot?
v_diddy: worst case scenario i sell off a daughter or two to mircea_popescu
v_diddy: they'll know latin, dance ballroom, play myriad instruments, perform ito.
v_diddy: he won't be able to resist!
trinque chuckles as the +ev scheme is laid bare!
phf: regressing to mean? that's a paddling
v_diddy: asciilifeform doubts my ability to milk humans of v!
v_diddy: the man would also rather chew tacks than talk to humans, so we are at an impasse.
v_diddy: asciilifeform: perhaps remembers the lotto tickets at con3?
v_diddy: actual incentive program at a place where a rescued $wotschmuck once labored
v_diddy: lotto ticket has unknowable, but predictably bad odds.
v_diddy: really? scratch-offs are provably trustable now?
v_diddy: and also reversion to the mean
trinque: v_diddy: wait this wasn't a place I worked with the lotto tickets was it?
trinque: I would die laughing if that became a practice after I left
v_diddy: and also that any given individual including v_diddy thinks they're not an entirely average schmuck
v_diddy: trinque: bonus pool type scam?
trinque: I'm just mocking the poverty of $oldboss
v_diddy: no this was something different
v_diddy: "5k bonus pool cash, divvied up amongst ye, or 5k of lotto tickets (purchased at my convenience store) divvied up amongst ye"
v_diddy: trinque: man can i get $legendaryshitshow1 and $...2 from that guy yet?
trinque: people still work for him?
v_diddy: anyways, at a high level, one aspect of the wager i'm making here is that if a moron like me can with dilligence and self-discipline figure out how to turn a dollar into a buck twenty, if i bring the discipline and insist on the dilligence, i oughta be able to crap out at least one kid that can support me through $enddayz when my meatwot is all dead and dried up
v_diddy: mircea_popescu: i found your next joinpartspamtarget
mircea_popescu: in other news : eggplant salad in mayo goes well with the local malbec.
v_diddy: the dumb thing would be for the petition initiator, right?
v_diddy: and to set your own bar and then fail to jump it?
trinque: so this petition gets "upboated" or w/e they called it here, and Obama is supposed to tell him "nuh uh"
v_diddy: oh this is an obab product
v_diddy: so where does the magic 5K number come from?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00054525 = 5.7906 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: originally, perhaps the "nuh uh" is collectivised now
BingoBoingo: <v_diddy> really? scratch-offs are provably trustable now? << Even more of a Gamble in Illinois. Prize over $600, get paid maybe nevar.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem is this : out of a billion people, his father in 1960 was part of a group of a million, and the other 999 million were more than happy to be coolies. today, the author is part of the group of the useless.
mircea_popescu: either that or flush them in one of those special hopsital toilets
v_diddy: mircea_popescu: re "powerful men behaving badly" is this symmetric with "powerful women behaving badly"?
v_diddy: can you give me a scenario of a powerful man behaving badly?
mircea_popescu: yes. the original one : you have to put a golden bubble around your kid's neck so powerful man behaving badly knows to rape some other kid in the gaggle of kids your kid's playing with.
v_diddy: asciilifeform: motorbikenuke!
v_diddy: in *other* news, gcaptain is an *awesome* blog
trinque: v_diddy: neat, surely armed security though?
v_diddy: trinque: rly? nigerians commandeering a freshly-built winxp ship?
trinque: seems like it creates an immediate market for hack tools like what they use to take down drones
v_diddy: dude mircea_popescu would you handle agorecki and therealjohngalt while you're at it?
v_diddy: asciilifeform: ah, but the tightly-coupled gps-imu
v_diddy: with its own sounding rockets that relay the real gps signal back to the launch platform!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24773 @ 0.00054536 = 13.5102 BTC [+] {2}
v_diddy: yes, i was typing something along the lines of "anyways, using gps for mission critical anything is braindamaged. you're better off with dead reckoning and navigation by star."
v_diddy: anyways, the "drone" comms are /entirely/ unencrypted.
v_diddy: *another* killer application of gossipd.
v_diddy goes shuffling through drawers for the uav wargames notes
mircea_popescu: i don't get this : not like you can't put encryption on top of a clear channel
v_diddy: mircea_popescu: uav/rc suffers from the pile of chairs problem
v_diddy: if you want the systems to behave sanely, you have to rewrite everything down to the wire protocols
mircea_popescu: well toy maker i dunno, but you can do it if you care.
v_diddy: ehehahueahuaehu this aughta set asciilifeform off
v_diddy: have worked with them numerously!
☟︎ v_diddy: "have haskell, will travel"
v_diddy: what traveling do quants do, they work for the bank.
v_diddy: anyways, first brush with "security industry"
v_diddy: impression i walked away with was that of nerd's protection racket
v_diddy: "oh your wordpress is very very insecure. it has shared php hosting. you need to spend $maxint to migrate to custom blablabla with frufrufru to protect your reputation and reduce the risk of br34ches!1"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19109 @ 0.00054547 = 10.4234 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "The media's preferred symbol for the disintegration of public order is looting, i.e the opposite of shopping."
punkman: indeed. on a sidenote, all the recent instances of looting around here were mobs taking food from supermarkets, not widescreen TVs.
punkman: not really, it has happened a few time in past decade though
punkman: usually same demographic as the kids throwing rocks and molotovs at cops, not actual hungry people
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054554 = 19.5849 BTC [+]
punkman: v_diddy: congrats, καλορίζικο και καλοτάξιδο
punkman: asciilifeform: a tenured prof is prolly the closest thing that presently exists in the western world to ~titled nobility~ << I don't buy it. Back when tenure was a thing, they wanted to keep professors around until parts started falling off. Now there's an endless stream of "professors", and gotta hire them so they can say "our PHDs get jobs"
v_diddy: tenured professors can kill with impunity?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15009 @ 0.00054554 = 8.188 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36211 @ 0.00054594 = 19.769 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00054554 = 13.2021 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45589 @ 0.00054649 = 24.9139 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25445 @ 0.00054554 = 13.8813 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00054554 = 5.4554 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: " If you wanted to learn, you headed towards where the books were and the people who could read them and that meant the great universities like Paris and Oxford."
mircea_popescu: derpy brits keep trying to retcon their insignificant island into things.
punkman: mircea_popescu: oxford was never great?
mircea_popescu: the thesis was whether oxford was there in the original wot. it was not.
mircea_popescu: at the time the paris university was starting the entire university thing, the king of france wouldn't have traded a middling french province for all of england ; which also he didn't.
mircea_popescu: at the time, the english were exactly like the 1600s scots (see their darien gap adventure). so they copied the bitcoin out of some idle kids and some peasants, which ended kloinking each other in the head.
mircea_popescu: three centuries later the dutch conquered england, moved their fleet there and so yes oxford eventually flourished. but the claim that it was "there in the 13th century" is spurious.
mircea_popescu: as a ready shorthand, remember that in 1400 the entire material production of the entire archipelago was worth about the same as that of one neighbourhood in milan.
punkman: i see. pretty dense history lesson there
mircea_popescu: the whole fantasy is very cs-scientist level of naive. read villon's testament - it should make it very plain what the point of university life was cca 1500 : THAT YOU COULD WALK IT.
mircea_popescu: everyone had one, and you could walk from basel to luxembourg.
mircea_popescu: this was immense - at the time a peasant who wanted to move, provided he somehow managed, had to fucking drag his entire possessions, on a rug. no wheels even, because too fucking techy for a peasant.
mircea_popescu: whereas the vagabond could carry all his possessions in his head!
mircea_popescu: THIS is why peasant chicks wistfully wisted for l'etudiant. because it is fucking fascinating, you are seriously telling me you can ~just go~ ?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: how do you do that from oxford, you swim the channel or something ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24109 @ 0.00054554 = 13.1524 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00054874 = 24.9128 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6211 @ 0.00054966 = 3.4139 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21617 @ 0.00054814 = 11.8491 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00055108 = 3.5269 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00055058 = 15.6915 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23728 @ 0.00054556 = 12.945 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00055101 = 17.5221 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00055175 = 8.2211 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48084 @ 0.00055201 = 26.5428 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: i feel very dense now...v_diddy is sean combs? and you all congrat him for what?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00055031 = 5.0629 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36349 @ 0.00055204 = 20.0661 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2148 @ 0.00055019 = 1.1818 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: mircea_popescu: in your quest for other non-derpy irc chans, have you tried #lisp?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21650 @ 0.00054976 = 11.9023 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00054976 = 12.562 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00054617 = 20.3721 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00054582 = 2.5654 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.0005455 = 40.367 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00055203 = 20.2871 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39026 @ 0.00055269 = 21.5693 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44091 @ 0.00055517 = 24.478 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80875 @ 0.00055762 = 45.0975 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: Felicidades v_diddy btw, had my head in the clouds the past few hours.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55122 @ 0.00055784 = 30.7493 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: After guilty plea, judge confused as to why prosecutors still want iPhone unlocked | Ars Technica ... (
http://bit.ly/1RF2eO5 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00055799 = 20.7014 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148750 @ 0.00055832 = 83.0501 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Google threatens action against Symantec-issued SSL certificates following botched investigation | PCWorld ... (
http://bit.ly/1Mz394P )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10205 @ 0.00055473 = 5.661 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44970 @ 0.00054479 = 24.4992 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: asciilifeform: is that because of the LC_ALL=C in vdiff?
punkman: dunno, I have a lot of code with unicode strings/comments
jurov: why shouldn't i be able to diff files with extended characters?
phf: plan9's diff handles utf-8, the implicit decision here is that we're sticking to us-ascii
punkman: also, wasn't LC_ALL=C needed for consistent ordering in diffs? I have it in mine
jurov: i want diff to be usable for any text files, not just code
☟︎ jurov: and my code inevitably contains some localized strings
jurov: so? it is now bound to longint with special encoding
jurov: you know text was retarded from the very beginning
jurov: it was defined as "what fits into gets buffer
jurov: i understand but it does not mean it must be done that way
phf: jurov: problem is that there's no such thing as "any text file". a text file necessarily has an encoding, and your options are either standardize on an encoding (the way plan9 did it, with going all utf-8) or else carry massive machinery for supporting a range of encodings from utf-8 to shiftjis
phf: utf-8 is a solution if you're ok iwth variadic encoding (though i've read many convincing arguments that utf-8 is new jersey brain dead), but the main issue is that full support of unicode is impossible withtout massive amounts of machinery. and you're going to butt head against the internal storage format and all the varieities of ucs-*, and ~then~ you're going to run into issues of normalization and multiple mappings and such
jurov: sigh. code to convert utf8 stream to wide char and back is 50 lines. with diff, one can safely ignore everything else, other encoding, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars, etc.
jurov: no need to pull huge libs
jurov: unix is broken by design
jurov: well, you're bound to see your software broken by people who don't agree with you then
☟︎ phf: jurov: i'm actually just trying to bridge your position and ascii's since i'm pretty indifferent personally to outcome of the decision. i used to latex by typing funny us-ascii combinations to produce cyrillic metafont renderings, and i also am intimately familiar with what's involved in support "other encoding, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars", and it's a pita.
jurov: msdos code pages? srs?
jurov: not just printed. i want to see diff working over it
jurov: and it is not so complicated as you paint it
jurov: printing is not your problem
jurov: and in any other cases where you don't have to choose exact glyph printed, you can ignore 99% of unicode spec
jurov: because they opted to do other encodings, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars, etc.
jurov: they can be ignored.. and you supposedly ignore this argument :(
jurov: oh it won't behave sanely to your standars, anyway
jurov: "the variadic encoding is intrinsically gnarly" etc.
jurov: you'er basically insisting that anyone who wants to do 8bit stuff in unix should sit themselves on a stake instead, or resort to ms-dos style wankery
jurov: that shitgnomes use variadic encoding as a means to append bloat is not failure of said encoding. they'd find another outlet easily
jurov: like the msdos cases, 8bit streams were preserver, but the rest was utter mess
phf: jurov: variadic anywhere in your string handling machinery means that you no longer have a meaningful concept of string, i.e. nth printable character is an nth object in array, instead everything that you manipulate is a stream with a state machine attached. be that utf-8 at the encoding level, or ucs-4 at the storage level which brings in surrogates and supplementary characters
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00054807 = 12.2768 BTC [+]
jurov: phf i proposed just ignore them
phf: a typical solution is then, like you said, ignore 90% of unicode standard, which means that, instead of having a clean model to work with, you have a c++ solution of "we support this particular subset of c++, because the other parts we think are braindead"
jurov: diff would compare just the entities and would expect normalized both inputs the same way
jurov: the normalization, sorting, etc. would be done by other tool
jurov: so diff would stay simple
phf: i think the argument against that is that ascii is trying to build a b-a system starting with small tools out. if you're claiming to support unicode in your diff, that necessarily means that "done by other tool" is automatically included in the scope of future b-a work
jurov: and "concept of string".. something has to give, in this case "string"===="byte array"
punkman: diff works fine with utf-8 documents, doesn't it?
jurov: punkman: yes because there's whole unicode machinery implemented which ppl rightfully abhor
jurov: btw, that "string" = "byte array" thing, specifically people who like to do pointer arithmetic around it caused enough grief i won't miss it at all
jurov: *every* time i did anything nontrivial with #include <string.h> it ended up by drawing stuff on paper
☟︎ phf: jurov: my personal concern is not "byte array" equivalency, but "object in array"
phf: a=['e', '´'] vs b=['é']. a[0] != b[0]
jurov: that's the braindamaged part, which should be dealt separately
jurov: and such tgins existed before, consider a="\t" vs b=" "
jurov: you're expected to make it consistent before passing in to diff
jurov: or use "ignore whitespaces" kludge
jurov: same with normalization
jurov: instead of adding kludge to diff, be it extra step
phf: but i'm not talking about diff specifically, i'm saying that whatever decissions are being made about diff now are going to influence the kind of work we'll have to do in the future
☟︎ phf: some hypothetical b-a os and internal consistency of the whole model. if you say "we support utf-8" here, you're also saying "we support unicode x.y" everywhere
☟︎☟︎ jurov: otherwise you have to keep stuff 8-bit clean throughout, is that better?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00054901 = 11.7488 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: i mean, remove extended chars from everythign that goes in
phf: jurov: that's a question to ascii, as far as "better". my point is that "us-ascii" vs "utf-8" in v/vdiff has greater implications
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112150 @ 0.00054686 = 61.3303 BTC [-] {4}
phf: i personally prefer the lc_ctype=koi8-r solution, but that's because i'm a retrograde :p
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00054932 = 9.6131 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: around 2000 i had on my system files and filenames in cp852, koi8, iso8859-2 and cp1250 encodings... no thanks
jurov: also as sysadmin had to configure samba to deal with them..nopenopenope. utf8 was definite improvement.
punkman: there is no unicode machinery in diff
phf: jurov: so did i, and i appreciate utf-8 in my music selection or random durp i download from the internet. i wouldn't care if there's some frequent surrogate issue with track file names, but i do care that i can't have a professional tool where that sort of questions have predictable, if not necessarily easy and fun answers
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 16:57:03; ascii_field: srsly, different sort order on different versions of 'diff' ?
jurov: asciilifeform: i see thirs of the code dealing with various "ignore whitespace" kludges
punkman: why does diff need to know about words?
punkman: my guess is it doesn't work with utf16 because it can't find linebreaks
jurov: can you point me to a line number? i fail to see it there
jurov: would bitcoin run on the lions book system?
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phf: could crosscompile the core, but openssl/boost, i don't even imagine the scope of that one
phf: actually i don't think v6 has threads
phf puts back his lion's copy
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14493 @ 0.0005494 = 7.9625 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38577 @ 0.00054805 = 21.1421 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8598 @ 0.00054813 = 4.7128 BTC [+]
jurov: yes, i'm doing it on purpose
mircea_popescu: actually as frustrating as it is, iirc there was always a good reason
jurov: asciilifeform ok, nm, on it
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 14:21:34; asciilifeform: 'Wikileaks is not offering a search of Cryptome - the files are hosted on their server as a honeypot for snatching user data for who knows what. There are subtle sneaky differences that give it away...'
mircea_popescu: and that what they attempt to do with the recently stolen item is to try and muddy up wikileaks is, at least to my eyes informative.
mircea_popescu: a) they know the secret is out, so this candle is burning - gotta use it NOW for maximum impact
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a huge wall of fire between easily and probably.
mircea_popescu: an ufo chock full of partying alien sluts on alien spring break could ~easily~ land in brooklyn too
mircea_popescu: i suppose the people who inform me also didn't think much of it.
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 15:09:58; asciilifeform: where do i meet all of these mythical people who own a computer, use gpg, but do not know enough english to operate it without this garbage ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40250 @ 0.00055338 = 22.2735 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be great if you couldn't read azn code because "if" was written in coolie ?
mircea_popescu: back then they still hoped china might be just a sort of magical closet.
mircea_popescu: and it was important to separate the cowstumers from the coolies.
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 15:32:52; jurov: i want diff to be usable for any text files, not just code
mod6: asciilifeform thx for posting the MPI stuff.
mircea_popescu: text means a very specific thing. latin alphabet. nothing else. if you'd rather work with 文本, work with 文本.
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 16:37:36; *: asciilifeform is l0lzing over how we are replacing the asciilifeform vs mircea_popescu debate on udp, with jurov playing the part of asciilifeform and asciilifeform playing the part of mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: explain this to me. what the fuck is a "sane notion of text" ?
mircea_popescu: just because you can elegantly package idiocy in sexpr does not alter what text is
mircea_popescu: and just because you can't see where this problem breaks shit down from where you sit doesn't mean it's not gonna. it will.
jurov: meh. i'll believe you both when you in the names of simplicity, shot "ignore whitespaces" too.
mircea_popescu: a badly defined notion CAN NEVER fit well into a machine
mircea_popescu: no matter how elegant the pretense can be made to appear.
mircea_popescu: and i will ritously say this is americanism at its finest. "oh, i like this girl, what need of her fambly ? we'll just live together under a blanked of sky, alone, like those two kids in the chinese myth!".
mircea_popescu: "oh, hurr, i kinda like the bible and my name is john smith".
mircea_popescu: this is not how things fgucking work. text means latin.
jurov: mircea_popescu: "ignore whitespaces" is half of the source alf posted me as example
mircea_popescu: just because bunches of barbarians "do without" the ablative doesn't mean they can fucking think in their pigdin
mircea_popescu: you god damned mathematician folk and your insane demands of language.
mircea_popescu: should have taken a god fearting major like the letters.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00055465 = 16.584 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87250 @ 0.00055563 = 48.4787 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 11:45:24; jurov: mircea_popescu: in your quest for other non-derpy irc chans, have you tried #lisp?
jurov: v_diddy: my late congrats!
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55550 @ 0.00055573 = 30.8708 BTC [+]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00055642 = 8.0403 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (though i've read many convincing arguments that utf-8 is new jersey brain dead) << al lyou need to know is that it's what seems to have been left standing once the pain of "gotta support bullshit" washed off.
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 15:43:21; asciilifeform: as a native of what latinate folks regard as likewise a 'hieroglyphs' language, i STILL favour the abolition of 'hieroglyphs display on EVERY box'
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 15:43:52; jurov: well, you're bound to see your software broken by people who don't agree with you then
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63350 @ 0.00055684 = 35.2758 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 16:17:23; jurov: *every* time i did anything nontrivial with #include <string.h> it ended up by drawing stuff on paper
mircea_popescu has said "AT THE VERY FUCKING LEAST!!!1 separate this mess into string.h and non-string.h god damned it!!1"
mircea_popescu: "localization" makes even office fucking management a nightmare.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00055117 = 15.4603 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 16:46:49; asciilifeform: phf: in case this wasn't obvious, i was not speaking of a ~literal~ return to v6
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 16:41:36; asciilifeform: every time you stick in the knife, somebody says 'NOOOOOO! this is NECESSARY complexity...!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38957 @ 0.00055172 = 21.4934 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: re asciilifeform mpi : the actual extraction, and especially auditing of the rng is a very worthy project.
☟︎ mod6: shinohai: yeah, looks like it worked. thanks!
jurov: asciilifeform: sadly i don't have your message because it started eating the bounces for yet unknown reason
jurov: spam isn't as nutritional as i thought, seems
jurov: you're welcome to resend it to juraj@coinbr.com or otherwise publish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55050 @ 0.00055228 = 30.403 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: "Whenever I see a reference to a statement that seems insane to me, two things will be true: 1. It will take me as long to get the study as it did to conduct the study, i.e. 45 minutes. No hyperlink. No free access. Then I have to go into the university's PubMed, which takes me through three windows to Science Direct or some other outlet. Why, oh why, can't I just click "(15)" in the original paper and immediately
☟︎ mircea_popescu: see it? Because: 2. It will turn out to be actually insane, and the only part of the reference that will support the statement will be the title."
mircea_popescu: aka "any claim as to science or studies done made in english, or by a libtard, or in support of notions not found in the literature of 1800 is to be dismissed out of hand."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7939 @ 0.00055417 = 4.3996 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24795 @ 0.00055843 = 13.8463 BTC [+]
ascii_field: it by itself was a pretty fast 16bit comp with multiple cpu !
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2015 00:56:46; asciilifeform: connects to the box itself with a thick triax cable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00055746 = 19.7898 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 21:45:55; mircea_popescu: re asciilifeform mpi : the actual extraction, and especially auditing of the rng is a very worthy project.
ascii_field: (deliberately not released with the mpi, because imho they are separate concerns)
ascii_field: there are 3 separate rng subsystems in gpg 1.4 - but more on this later)
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 21:43:27; mircea_popescu: i has lulzed enough to last me the month.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18485 @ 0.0005587 = 10.3276 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 31-10-2015 22:29:23; mircea_popescu: "Whenever I see a reference to a statement that seems insane to me, two things will be true: 1. It will take me as long to get the study as it did to conduct the study, i.e. 45 minutes. No hyperlink. No free access. Then I have to go into the university's PubMed, which takes me through three windows to Science Direct or some other outlet. Why, oh why, can't I just click "(15)" in the original pap
ascii_field: but i thought mircea_popescu ~liked~ paywalls...?
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.peterl.1:0a8a8858ddc91f3e623eaa68eb5a4aa37e77c9a8840c191ff70fb388b75c88e1
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for peterl with note: writes stuff on occasion.
mircea_popescu: also one of those things hwere more work (esp by students) is never wasted
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i also like cocks (mine) and women (my own) and so on.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "granted immunity to former detective Austin, Texas police detective Charles Kleinert "
mircea_popescu: multicultural studies : poppedia.es : "Naomi Klein (nacida en Montreal, Canadá, el 8 de mayo de 1970) es una periodista e investigadora canadiense de gran influencia en el movimiento antiglobalización y el socialismo democrático" ; poppedia.en : "Naomi Klein (born May 8, 1970) is a Canadian author, social activist, and filmmaker known for her political analyses and criticism of corporate globalization and of corpora
mircea_popescu: and it goes into weird from there, "tercera via" is a thing for the spanishtards
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, they omit versioning for good reason. ceausescu's aparatchicks also had a "third way", like did the russians, like the peronisto-kirscherists, cuba is in its very own tercera via like is korea like is venezuela like that native midget what's his name sinking peru etc.