log
45 entries in 0.555s
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 18:19 mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
mircea_popescu: esthlos of course, if your whole thing is lisp, the utility of ada keccak may be limited ?
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/074-adalisp-prototype.html << The Tar Pit - An early Lisp scriptlang prototype in Ada
a111: Logged on 2017-10-08 14:06 phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
asciilifeform: point being, it is actually considerably easier to write a new ada. ( in lisp or in whatever. )
mircea_popescu: either lisp or ada.
mircea_popescu: mod6, there's no rush there, esthlos had 90% of a working lisp v, i expect it can be tweaked into a deliverable. can have ada v later on.
asciilifeform: imho the long-term answer is '3rd way' , i.e. all the crud i wrote in bash, python, etc over the years really oughta be in the hypothetical little-lisp-in-ada from old thread.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-26#1786219 <-- hey, that sounds like a really neat project, I wouldn't mind adding it to the list. on a related note, /me has been on a sort of semi-holiday for the last 2 months, which led to a lot of exploration on items of potential republican interest. e.g. the ada lisp scriptlang, an irc logger bot (which I could spin into a rss bot), the text browser thing and some out-of-the-blue ro-en Trilema☝︎
caaddr: instead we have... what do we have? we have the blockchain but we're still using dns. we have common lisp but we're still using scheme, or, worse, clojure. we have ada but we're using rust. "we" being "we the people", as in the redditoid masses
caaddr: it would be nice to bootstrap an entire operating system from machine code to forth to some strange mix of forth and ada, ada, then tinyscheme, and finally a sane common lisp subset
spyked: thanks shinohai. :D the plan is to (at the very least) periodically share items of republican interest that I'm working on (e.g. ada lisp). progress has been very slow so far, but it's picking up
mircea_popescu: and, back to the trunk, we've not even discussed the horror of translation. suppose you write a thing, in ada. suppose another, who works on a lisp tree, takes your thing and identically translates it to lisp (here defined, that on any correct machine his code will in all cases behave indentically to yours). what's your v to do here ?
mircea_popescu: why not actually do it then, and first construct an ada circular ring lisp-memory stack first ?
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : you can trivially implement linked list without -- properly speaking -- pointers, but with integers, this also came up in the earlier 'lisp in ada' thread )
danielpbarron: i guess he's gonna learn himself some ada, or lisp if anyone wants. feel free to instruct him
danielpbarron: he was asking for a job so i asked if he had tits, he didn't, so i said do you know lisp or ada
phf: knuth managed to do a lot to keep tex what it is, given that he's essentially a pacifist academic. there aren't many other examples (common lisp, ada) where preservation has been taken to this extreme.
spyked: shinohai, pretty good. gentoo diddling. I'm trying to get a new box up, learn v, compile trb, add an ada in, learn lisp internals ... (the list continues)
mircea_popescu: gcc or w/e you use as a compiler,. for instance, also not an ada proggy. ada dun even try what lisp tried and failed to obtain, ie, a full universe.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:29 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob.☝︎
phf: asciilifeform: i'm using "memory management" meaning of cons, not like lisp 101 take on it. they don't have cons meaning that there's no managed heap, there's no gc on that heap, and you can't allocate things into the heap and let it be managed by heap machinery. so they have "cons", but their ~actual~ cons is ada's "new ..."
a111: Logged on 2017-11-12 23:39 mircea_popescu: does an ada lisp ~even exist~ as far as anyone knows ?
mircea_popescu: does an ada lisp ~even exist~ as far as anyone knows ?
phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
spyked: also, there's the memory model. lisp machine "cells" are very elegant, while algol-like languages seem pretty muddy on that part. ftr, I have never seriously programmed in ada (closest thing to it was pascal)
phf: well, problem is that there doesn't seem to be much in terms of tasteful ada code available to public. with common lisp you can go to mid-90s and before and you start getting some very reasonable works, worthy imitation.
phf: fwiw ada is a harsh mistress is an illusion. if it were to become fashionable to write ada among the hacker news crowd, there will be rapid attempts at modernization. common lisp went through that process
asciilifeform: ( the canonical standards are also on www, http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/ada12.html , download the html to disk and use like lisp folks use clhs)
mircea_popescu: now then. can the lispheads live with the idea of an ada tmsr-cryptolib ? perhaps with it as a reference and a lisp copy ?
mircea_popescu: and the supersecret future plan of factory -> vsli -> ada -> lisp -> scheme / numeric algebra / stuff is busted open by careless accidental coversations in a public channel
phf: lisp's answer is given von neumann what's most flexible model, ada's answer is given von neumann how do we put enough constraints that there are runtime reliability guarantees
jurov: but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?
asciilifeform has been recently carrying out a kind of survey of programming systems ~built for adults~. so far, nominees: common lisp, ada, standard ml. and that's ~it~
gabriel_laddel: nah, more along the lines of "I'm a programmer" "orly, do you grok lisp? What the primary advantages that haskell's type system provides? Ada's test suite: comments?"
asciilifeform: this is -one- of the reasons why ada (and to a slightly-lesser extent - common lisp) is interesting
asciilifeform: ada, like lisp, is not a language. it is merely a kind of void left by removing retardation.
mircea_popescu: and as they become obsolete in the future, ppl not wanting to upgrade their bitcoin archives will provide hdds with one of those ada or lisp-esque eternal lives.
BingoBoingo: You just end up poorly reimplementing Common Lisp or Ada
asciilifeform: adlai: interestingly, symbolics lisp mach. had full datastructure interoperability between zetalisp, common lisp, fortran, ada, - even c.
BingoBoingo: It is amusing. Still when it comes time to replace GPG it will look more like https://github.com/tedu/reop than any Moxenslit iPerson thing (except... with RSA support and done in ADA/Common Lisp)
asciilifeform: ada, like common lisp, is interesting for the mostly-complete absence of any obviously braindamaged decisions forced upon the user
mircea_popescu: ada and lisp ?