tmsr - Search: ada lisp

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 12:37:27 asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm)

asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm)

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, that might be an argument for ada. but not for lisp. lisp comes with interpreter costs etc.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-30 14:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910209 << this is a solvable problem -- given a) lang that actually supports modularization ( ada & common lisp, afaik, being the only such currently ) ; b) mandatorily compact system soft (i.e. specifically opposed to mil+ loc of liquishit c) generous public whippings for 'the dancers who are hindered by own arse'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910209 << this is a solvable problem -- given a) lang that actually supports modularization ( ada & common lisp, afaik, being the only such currently ) ; b) mandatorily compact system soft (i.e. specifically opposed to mil+ loc of liquishit c) generous public whippings for 'the dancers who are hindered by own arse' ☝︎☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: vendor supplied lisp, ada, fortran, even c, compilers , which interoperated to the point of safely calling proggy written in 1, from another

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907042 << all of these archs were missing essential piece for sanity -- type tagging and bounds checking. ( i.e. if running ada or lisp 'costs extra' on your iron vs. c , your arch is broken ! ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/adalisp_genesis << spyked's small lisp in ada.

asciilifeform: once we have a One Troo scripting language ( possibly some variant of spyked's gc-less ada lisp.. ) i'd like to write a vtron in that ( supposing nobody else beats me to it )

mircea_popescu: i suspect that the federated calling model of the current bash is actually its strength ; and not necessarily competed by lisp-ada.

a111: Logged on 2018-04-05 19:11 asciilifeform: imho the long-term answer is '3rd way' , i.e. all the crud i wrote in bash, python, etc over the years really oughta be in the hypothetical little-lisp-in-ada from old thread.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 18:19 mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"

mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?" ☟︎

mircea_popescu: esthlos of course, if your whole thing is lisp, the utility of ada keccak may be limited ?

a111: Logged on 2017-10-08 14:06 phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory

asciilifeform: point being, it is actually considerably easier to write a new ada. ( in lisp or in whatever. )

mircea_popescu: mod6, there's no rush there, esthlos had 90% of a working lisp v, i expect it can be tweaked into a deliverable. can have ada v later on.

asciilifeform: imho the long-term answer is '3rd way' , i.e. all the crud i wrote in bash, python, etc over the years really oughta be in the hypothetical little-lisp-in-ada from old thread. ☟︎

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-26#1786219 <-- hey, that sounds like a really neat project, I wouldn't mind adding it to the list. on a related note, /me has been on a sort of semi-holiday for the last 2 months, which led to a lot of exploration on items of potential republican interest. e.g. the ada lisp scriptlang, an irc logger bot (which I could spin into a rss bot), the text browser thing and some out-of-the-blue ro-en Trilema ☝︎

caaddr: instead we have... what do we have? we have the blockchain but we're still using dns. we have common lisp but we're still using scheme, or, worse, clojure. we have ada but we're using rust. "we" being "we the people", as in the redditoid masses

caaddr: it would be nice to bootstrap an entire operating system from machine code to forth to some strange mix of forth and ada, ada, then tinyscheme, and finally a sane common lisp subset

spyked: thanks shinohai. :D the plan is to (at the very least) periodically share items of republican interest that I'm working on (e.g. ada lisp). progress has been very slow so far, but it's picking up

mircea_popescu: and, back to the trunk, we've not even discussed the horror of translation. suppose you write a thing, in ada. suppose another, who works on a lisp tree, takes your thing and identically translates it to lisp (here defined, that on any correct machine his code will in all cases behave indentically to yours). what's your v to do here ?

mircea_popescu: why not actually do it then, and first construct an ada circular ring lisp-memory stack first ?

asciilifeform: ( spoiler : you can trivially implement linked list without -- properly speaking -- pointers, but with integers, this also came up in the earlier 'lisp in ada' thread )

danielpbarron: i guess he's gonna learn himself some ada, or lisp if anyone wants. feel free to instruct him

danielpbarron: he was asking for a job so i asked if he had tits, he didn't, so i said do you know lisp or ada

phf: knuth managed to do a lot to keep tex what it is, given that he's essentially a pacifist academic. there aren't many other examples (common lisp, ada) where preservation has been taken to this extreme.

spyked: shinohai, pretty good. gentoo diddling. I'm trying to get a new box up, learn v, compile trb, add an ada in, learn lisp internals ... (the list continues)

mircea_popescu: gcc or w/e you use as a compiler,. for instance, also not an ada proggy. ada dun even try what lisp tried and failed to obtain, ie, a full universe.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:29 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob. ☝︎☟︎

phf: asciilifeform: i'm using "memory management" meaning of cons, not like lisp 101 take on it. they don't have cons meaning that there's no managed heap, there's no gc on that heap, and you can't allocate things into the heap and let it be managed by heap machinery. so they have "cons", but their ~actual~ cons is ada's "new ..."

a111: Logged on 2017-11-12 23:39 mircea_popescu: does an ada lisp ~even exist~ as far as anyone knows ?

phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory ☟︎

spyked: also, there's the memory model. lisp machine "cells" are very elegant, while algol-like languages seem pretty muddy on that part. ftr, I have never seriously programmed in ada (closest thing to it was pascal)

phf: well, problem is that there doesn't seem to be much in terms of tasteful ada code available to public. with common lisp you can go to mid-90s and before and you start getting some very reasonable works, worthy imitation.

phf: fwiw ada is a harsh mistress is an illusion. if it were to become fashionable to write ada among the hacker news crowd, there will be rapid attempts at modernization. common lisp went through that process

asciilifeform: ( the canonical standards are also on www, http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/ada12.html , download the html to disk and use like lisp folks use clhs)

mircea_popescu: now then. can the lispheads live with the idea of an ada tmsr-cryptolib ? perhaps with it as a reference and a lisp copy ?

mircea_popescu: and the supersecret future plan of factory -> vsli -> ada -> lisp -> scheme / numeric algebra / stuff is busted open by careless accidental coversations in a public channel

phf: lisp's answer is given von neumann what's most flexible model, ada's answer is given von neumann how do we put enough constraints that there are runtime reliability guarantees

jurov: but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?

asciilifeform has been recently carrying out a kind of survey of programming systems ~built for adults~. so far, nominees: common lisp, ada, standard ml. and that's ~it~

gabriel_laddel: nah, more along the lines of "I'm a programmer" "orly, do you grok lisp? What the primary advantages that haskell's type system provides? Ada's test suite: comments?"

asciilifeform: this is -one- of the reasons why ada (and to a slightly-lesser extent - common lisp) is interesting

asciilifeform: ada, like lisp, is not a language. it is merely a kind of void left by removing retardation.

mircea_popescu: and as they become obsolete in the future, ppl not wanting to upgrade their bitcoin archives will provide hdds with one of those ada or lisp-esque eternal lives.

asciilifeform: adlai: interestingly, symbolics lisp mach. had full datastructure interoperability between zetalisp, common lisp, fortran, ada, - even c.

BingoBoingo: It is amusing. Still when it comes time to replace GPG it will look more like https://github.com/tedu/reop than any Moxenslit iPerson thing (except... with RSA support and done in ADA/Common Lisp)

asciilifeform: ada, like common lisp, is interesting for the mostly-complete absence of any obviously braindamaged decisions forced upon the user