log☇︎
1232 entries in 0.804s
asciilifeform: rng is so hard to come by ?
decimation: you want a key without an rng?
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, I avoids to have access to an rng at any further point ☟︎
asciilifeform: why not use a proper rng ?
assbot: 4 results for 'android rng' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=android+rng
asciilifeform: !s android rng
ascii_field: you don't need calendar date for rng-from-interrupts
ascii_field: at any rate, if you really must have rng on pogo for some perverse reason, can do it right now
ascii_field: thing is, rng needs attributes ~other~ than 'shits entropy'. namely, not to be correlated with variables manipulable or monitorable by enemy
mircea_popescu: so adding a 2nd => rng.
ascii_field: clock != rng
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1195844 << incidentally kako has a golden point. if you actually solder a clock in there, suddenly it does have rng ☝︎
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when carrying out this experiment, please remember that pogo HAS NO RNG
trinque: ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean that they are capable of novel thoughts?
ascii_field: if you must reduce it to a soundbite - it is just a measure of the quality of the rng in your head
mike_c: block hash is rng
ascii_field: punkman: 'pogo' has no rng...
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOHQEr )
pete_dushenski: obligatory : http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: re: https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/614855224864448513 << is this the same rassah from the ol' 'mycelium knows how to make rng for their entropy dongle now but won't because it's hard and other reasons' ?
decimation: yeah I was about to ask where the entropy for the rng comes from
mod6: <+ascii_field> in other news, the 5 repaired rng units pass. << nice!
ascii_field: in other news, the 5 repaired rng units pass.
mircea_popescu: you could run a probabilistic test on your own machine for your own modulus. if you have a good rng this usually woirks,
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: you ever get the rng working ?
ascii_field: the rng -must- be checked with scope
ascii_field: again, not to be confused with the time they used defective rng on android proper
ascii_field: most defective (or subverted) electronic rng have similar property
ascii_field: (proper rng for the nonces, naturally)
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't stand for this in your cardano rng.
shinohai: At risk of sounding stupid, are these rng boards meant to generate keys in an airgapped manner, safe from those who are trying to break/weaken encryption?
asciilifeform: currently waiting to see what they will say re: the cause of the five dud rng.
mircea_popescu: well if the rng is 30ish and the board 100, we could easily expect 3^2 that many defects in the board.
asciilifeform: if the rng batch is any indication of general quality of the vendor.
assbot: Logged on 06-06-2015 06:19:43; mircea_popescu: in unrelated but more interesting news, it's been pointed out to me pluriously by now that http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-may-2015-statement/ fails to include some rather interesting points, chiefly what about the rest of the cardano, other than the rng ? has it been ordered ? is it to be ordered soon ?
mircea_popescu: in unrelated but more interesting news, it's been pointed out to me pluriously by now that http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-may-2015-statement/ fails to include some rather interesting points, chiefly what about the rest of the cardano, other than the rng ? has it been ordered ? is it to be ordered soon ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: shinohai there's also http://trilema.com/2013/rng-board-is-here-cute-shirts-bonus/
asciilifeform: is the question specifically concerning the buggy debian rng ?
assbot: 378 results for 'RNG' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=RNG
BingoBoingo: !s RNG
asciilifeform shiva hands full, will be writing broadcast -and- testing 32 rng units this weekend
ascii_modem: rng sampling << shift register , external clock, optocouplers
jurov: how did you hook up the rng in the end?
asciilifeform: that is really the main reason i do not use geiger for rng personally
asciilifeform: jurov: realize that folks have been selling rng since at least late '70s
ascii_field: rng crate, i'm told, has shipped out.
mircea_popescu: that doesn't fix a bad rng
mircea_popescu: depends a lot on the rng too
ascii_field: rng
jurov: for rng or cardano?
justJanne: the issue with pi is that it is a very slow RNG
assbot: Logged on 08-04-2014 03:16:07; asciilifeform: don't be the schmuck who builds rng which throws away batches of bits that fail some test
mircea_popescu: you must have a theory as to what exactly would it do before you can actually say a rng was shown weak by dieharder.
justJanne: With a very bad RNG, it would tell you 2 is prime.
asciilifeform: decimation: rng literally breaks most of the rules of 'civilian' electronic design
asciilifeform: decimation: the noise doesn't matter, rng outputs logic-level signal
asciilifeform: it's raw rng
asciilifeform: decimation: that dongle is just the thing for, e.g., pogo - but the rng is not a rs232 device...
asciilifeform: or auditable rng, etc.
asciilifeform: decimation: he's playing with a cardano rng
danielpbarron: he decided that since the thing has no RNG, ssh is a waste
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: tried your rng yet ?
ascii_field wonders how many years of jail are given for predicting the output of a legit, un-pwned winblows rng in lottery
asciilifeform: several other folks here also use rng of own design and/or construction.
asciilifeform: when using serious crypto, i employ only rng constructed personally
mats: For example: the most significant issue in the Truecrypt report is a finding related to the Windows version of Truecrypt's random number generator (RNG), which is responsible for generating the keys that encrypt Truecrypt volumes.
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0hill )
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/#comment-13873 << lol mr. mycelium comes back for 'correction'
jurov: Chillum, I added microphone to the rng mix for similar rpi application
asciilifeform: only trouble spot is the rng
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )
asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt << pete's summary
decimation: or you could go out back and pick up some uranium ore and build your own rng
asciilifeform: <Chillum> ... Can they be hooked to a serial port? << if you are thinking of the rng discussed in last week's thread (a component of cardano, not yet released machine) it is an analogue device with a ttl schmidt trigger out
nubbins`: like you said, what's a wallet without rng
Chillum: well I am using rng-tools to point /dev/hwrng to /dev/random
asciilifeform: actually the most glaring flaw with virtually all hardware rng is lack of auditability.
nubbins`: "Sum-up : 73 tests performed. Cardano RNG : Failed 2, Weak 5, Passed 66. Radioactive decay : Failed 9, Weak 13, Passed 51. Now go take your current entropy source, put it through diehard and see what happens. "
assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 19:55:07; asciilifeform: observation: sshd on a box with no rng may as well be replaced by telnetd
mod6: ok, maybe i don't understand. but im gonna ask anyway. but what you're saying is that the pogo embedded os wont have a rng?
asciilifeform: observation: sshd on a box with no rng may as well be replaced by telnetd
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i must remind you - and everyone else here - that pogo has no rng.
decimation: I've been thinking about building a 'geiger counter' rng like herr walker's
asciilifeform: not that any rng will function especially well in the arctic, but that fella's insistence on baking a known-bad design was memorable.
asciilifeform: (appears in one of the photos linked earlier, displaying supply voltage and current consumption of rng)
assbot: FS#34580 : [rng-tools] Default configuration of rng-tools adds no real entropy to /dev/random ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hsiq01 )
asciilifeform: the long-distance one behaves exclusively like a pair of synched rng.
ascii_field: trinque: rng in ic is a dead concept right off the bat
trinque: is there some ancient processor which has an rng that works?
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << pg. 18: demonstration that intel -could- have diddled RDRAND instruction in such a way as to undetectably manipulate linux rng in spite of xor lemma
asciilifeform: mike_c: did you actually think the rng was the cargo? rng was exhibited at C-II
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the scope traces show a working rng, even.
mircea_popescu: i was simply thinking a 2nd kbd with a rng tied to it closing circuits.
mircea_popescu: well, or can use your own rng.
mircea_popescu: actually... just add rng in circuit.
asciilifeform: though there might live somewhere a nitwit so astonoshingly stupid that he might imagine that rng might be screwed into a live battlefield system without test of any kind.
asciilifeform: incidentally, had i done anything other than what i did - ordering sample rng first - would likely have noticed nothing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: both modules in both rng boards 100% dead
asciilifeform: not a single one of the rng submodules works.
asciilifeform: one of the bags contains an empty board (souvenir?) - order consisted of two assembled standard rng