log☇︎
1232 entries in 1.004s
asciilifeform: i'd have baked the rng pcbs personally, but on account of them being analogue devices, you can't really characterize them unless you use the same board materials as the final product.
asciilifeform: artifexd: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rng/hob.png
asciilifeform: the one other useful fact is that entropy of (bad rng) xor (better rng) is equal to that of (better rng)
artifexd: What kind of rng will the cardano use?
asciilifeform: don't be the schmuck who builds rng which throws away batches of bits that fail some test ☟︎
decimation: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/index.html
asciilifeform: ;;google diehard rng tests
asciilifeform: artifexd: rng must be periodically tested
asciilifeform: when building rng, consider what is to happen when it fails.
kakobrekla: rng from cardano clearly.
artifexd: asciilifeform Can you recommend a reasonably priced hardware rng or an acceptable software rng?
asciilifeform: mike_c: you (and anyone) also have access to analogue rng. open a textbook and pick your favourite...
asciilifeform: mike_c: i've an analogue rng, feeding /dev/random myself.
asciilifeform: likewise the 'built in rng' is... raspberry's
mike_c: bitbet has certainly published a lot of their addresses by now. hopefully they have good RNG!
asciilifeform: all public-key crypto lives and dies by rng
asciilifeform: mike_c: if you do this, you will live or die by your RNG.
BingoBoingo: Address reuse is theoretically problematic, with a poor RNG it is completely fucked as the android wallet apps demonstrated
asciilifeform: a sane rng is always shielded, not only to keep out noise (natural or otherwise) but to avoid broadcasting state.
asciilifeform: regardless of what type of rng, analogue portion of circuit must be shielded
asciilifeform: cheaper to have a johnson rng in a shield
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a thought : how about rng based on measuring instantaneous polarisation of Nd:YAG laser ?
Apocalyptic: The -r or --rng-device options can be used to select an alternate source of input
benkay: no rng
tg2: dat rng
ThickAsThieves: well more that i respect you have better ability to discern proper rng, crypto, etc than i
asciilifeform: everything there is to know about rng is 1950s state of the art.
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: i do hope that you don't think me to be some sort of rng hero
mircea_popescu: bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed
asciilifeform: a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space
asciilifeform: (the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality)
asciilifeform: nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline
bounce: so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?
asciilifeform: when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge
KRS-One: the rng ok?
asciilifeform: for instance, where in the keychain could one stuff an analogue rng, auditable with the naked eye and oscilloscope ?
thestringpuller: like for rng?
asciilifeform: if you could take raspi or whatever, remove the mystery meat, add analogue rng - you would not need cardano.
asciilifeform: it's a lottery to the fellow who doesn't know the rng seed.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rng/baked.png
asciilifeform: attack against rng should be seen as 'part of a balanced diet' of pwnage
asciilifeform: bad rng is not a magical instant death
asciilifeform: re: 'scigen': all the 'authors' would need to do now is to adjust the rng
mircea_popescu: or any other parity your favourite rng suggests.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic the problem of rng quality only appears on large datasets.
Apocalyptic: then i don't trust my hd RNG very much
jurov: that was cause of poor (predictable) rng
mircea_popescu: mechanical rng, generally the states of sin.
mircea_popescu: the game board consists of an endless set of strings, which all start as natural language constructs and are "decayed" by bit flipping by an actual rng.
mircea_popescu: or http://trilema.com/2013/rng-board-is-here-cute-shirts-bonus/ if you prefer women.
mircea_popescu: once you have an actual rng, there's tricks to fix it
mircea_popescu: but questionable or not it is still a rng
asciilifeform: any rng where a planet full of bozos contributes to the state is arguably questionable
mircea_popescu: they're an actual rng
asciilifeform: always seemed to be like 'provably fair' dice is inherently at odds with sane rng.
mircea_popescu: jurov there's a variety of available attacks if the rng is badly biased.
nubbins`: you know, vexual would make a pretty good meat-based rng
nubbins`: rng based on davout's joins/parts
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i have a rng.
asciilifeform: it has a (satanic) rng built in.
asciilifeform: where's the rng?
ThickAsThieves: "SHA256 Authentication, hardware RNG, and protected key storage on an easy to mount board"
pankkake: getting logged as another user is actually a common bug, usually bad session rng
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's possibly more rng customers than gpg customers imo
asciilifeform: if we only wanted to ship rng, we could've done so in november. to all of six customers, or somesuch.
asciilifeform: rng is simply a part therein
dub: hardware rng
benkay: how is the cardano protected from RNG diddling?
BingoBoingo: I mean RNG even got capitlization right.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: yeah the other thing. just about everybody using single-board ARM machines is using their satanic rng.
BingoBoingo: truffles: asciilifeform is saying a human can't lose to an RNG, a specific type of machine
BingoBoingo: If the RNG plays as white for any first move other than 1 d4 and the other than 1 e4 and 1 f4 the RNG's winning chances are diminished at the start
BingoBoingo: If RNG chess doesn' have a good opening book you might need a rather large sample size of games to evaluate players
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Depends on when in the game RNG chess kicks in
BingoBoingo: It depends on the RNG.
asciilifeform: or say, he decides to play by picking legal moves from an rng.
mod6: With the news about RSA/NSA/BSafe and that they put in a backdoored Dual ECC RNG as default in the rolling key fob, I hardly imagine the demand for a trustworthy and open-source producer of cryptographic devices.
asciilifeform: since you folks love hints and tidbits: the rng operates exclusively off the battery.
asciilifeform: benkay: rng done.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: using a geiger counter for rng?
asciilifeform: https://github.com/trezor/rng-test/blob/master/dev_random_1.dieharder
asciilifeform: https://github.com/trezor/rng-test
mircea_popescu: so in the most recent rng tests for the cardano we now see Entropy = 7.999926 bits per byte.
sbp: I was reading asciilifeform's notes about RNG on Trilema earlier
asciilifeform: yet another 'crack our RNG plz' contest?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah the now feed the borked RNG data through a borked schneier algo
jurov: you were bickering about rng whole month?
mike_c: of course, to securely gpg it i would need a high-quality rng.. where could i get one of those i wonder.
asciilifeform: the essential, non-negotiable property of an rng suitable for crypto is that its output must not be readily available to the enemy. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: I imagine the cardono's RNG board might find a market in academia where decent random numbers are needed for certain types of statistical work
asciilifeform: an rng integrated on chip is suitable for a game machine and little else. and even this given the condition that the game is never to be played on wager.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, also I imagine an RNG is a pieces of hardware where shrinking the node size is detrimental. Probing things best measured in nanometers seems like an expensive proposition.
asciilifeform: the principal twist here is that it isn't enough to print the design of an RNG
asciilifeform: RNG isn't exactly an unexplored field, but there are many opportunities for fukuppy.
gribble: benkay was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 21 hours, 19 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <benkay> ;;later tell asciilifeform if pluggable rng, why not user-providable keys on later models?
asciilifeform: 'Ford style' would be rng based on puffs of (crack) smoke?
gribble: benkay was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 16 hours, 38 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <benkay> ;;later tell asciilifeform if pluggable rng, why not user-providable keys on later models?
benkay: ;;later tell asciilifeform if pluggable rng, why not user-providable keys on later models?
benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu if pluggable rng, why not user-providable keys on later models?
asciilifeform: current design draft has a toggle that converts the unit into a pure rng