mircea_popescu: im not sure we're all homo enough to live on the same submarine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125226 @ 0.00025811 = 32.3221 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45874 @ 0.00025191 = 11.5561 BTC [-]
assbot: The Guardian issues clarification on Whisper privacy scandal that wasn't such a scandal after all ... (
http://bit.ly/1G0IRLT )
mircea_popescu: but then they figured out that when it comes to newspaper content, they got no alternative
mircea_popescu: in any case, gotta admire how narrowly the chumpatron works.
mircea_popescu: how does this thing advertise itself in wikipedia ? (and yes, that's what wikipedia is, usg-pravda)
mircea_popescu: Whisper has become popular on college campuses,[7] with usership at several large universities throughout the United States, including Pennsylvania State University, Arizona State University, University of Florida, Ohio State University, and University of Texas at Austin.
mircea_popescu: "but maybe you deliberately are claiming this because you think it's the criteria ?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137688 @ 0.00025091 = 34.5473 BTC [-] {3}
Chillum: advertising on Wikipedia?? unheard of!
Chillum: point me to the spammer and I will block them!
thestringpuller: These kids get addicted to their crack-money, and then depend on it. Next thing you know you're coinbase or reddit begging for 500mn.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78346 @ 0.00024852 = 19.4705 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.0002569 = 9.2484 BTC [+]
trinque: pogo's not a bad little device, surely not for the price
trinque: asciilifeform: where does turdel expect to find storage?
trinque: I'll wait on that then, until my usb serial thing comes
nubbins`: hey, your choice. the more eyes the better
nubbins`: worth figuring out the tftp setup, flasing the pogo, etc
trinque: thought was that having that would help me test
trinque: does that kernel belch serial console stuff to netconsole?
trinque: I figure otherwise if it gets stuck somewhere my best feedback is going to be "eh well, didn't go?"
nubbins`: well, you got through the qnology post, right?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70526 @ 0.00024764 = 17.4651 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: most sane package managers should have a tftpd that you can install on your local machine
trinque: what are you guys using to watch it boot if not netconsole or the usb serial thing?
trinque: or are you just waiting for it to come up, then telnet-ing in?
nubbins`: so you interrupt the boot sequence w/ nc
nubbins`: then tftp the turdel blob over
trinque: ah this is in dpb's writeup
nubbins`: the first thing you have to do is update the boot sequence on your pogo
nubbins`: start with the fw_setenv bits down bottom
nubbins`: "tftp server ip" is your desktop
nubbins`: fw_setenv "bootcmd='run boot_tftp'" <<< this needs to be modified
nubbins`: /tmp/fw_setenv bootcmd 'run boot_tftp; run bootcmd_mmc; run bootcmd_usb; run bootcmd_sata; run bootcmd_pogo; reset'
nubbins`: that way if tftp boot fails, you're not bricked
nubbins`: right. so once you get that done, you start up netcat on your desktop
trinque: that's what I was wondering, whether I'd be blind during boot
nubbins`: then just power cycle the pogo and watch the show
nubbins`: you'll see the 10-second countdown, hit enter
nubbins`: then Pogov4> tftp 0x800000 turdel_with_telnet
nubbins`: at which point it immediately boots into the turdel, give it a bit, then telnet into it
nubbins`: if you manage to telnet into the turdel, pastebin some shit to prove it :D
decimation: good thing, given the size of the blockchain
mircea_popescu: Chillum point me to the spammer and I will block them! << the whole thing exists principally as an advertising venue for a certain set of nonsense.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105070 @ 0.00024754 = 26.009 BTC [-]
Chillum: as a wikipedia admin I agree there is a lot of spam, though that is not the reason for its existence
mircea_popescu: well, take this with a grain of salt, so it may add digestion
mircea_popescu: but : the thinking here is that google putting wikipedia at top of search results is neither algorithmic nor coincidental.
Chillum: It is because we are linked so much
mircea_popescu: while it doesn't amount to conspiracy, it factually functions as one. flows driectly from confirnation bias.
mircea_popescu: mno, google doesn't either follow links or care about the results since years ago.
Chillum: Not sure what you mean by whisper
mircea_popescu: the certain (worthless) app was being discussed earlier re the guardian piece
Chillum: oh, well that article is a pile of crap.
Chillum: but Wikipedia is barely aware of its existence
decimation: Chillum: I once tried to edit a climate-change related article on wikipedia, my changes were immediate reverted by william connolley
Chillum: well that is a controversial article
Chillum: you would need to participate in the debate on the talk page
mircea_popescu: Chillum mind that what i said was, "in the article whisper made on wikipedia to advertise itself, which is what wikipedia is principally used for, they depict themselves as so and so, because that's what they perceive is aspiration-able"
Chillum: we discourage people from writing about themselves
Chillum: pretty hard to stop though
mircea_popescu: impossible to stop. anything anyone wants to talk about is themselves.
Chillum: we can't stop nuts from showing up all day with crazy theories either
mircea_popescu: but the fact that it has to be stopped in the first place says something.
decimation: nobodies can camp all day on an article and 'win' if they revert/revise quickly enough
trinque: nubbins`: helps if you disable your firewall on local machine
trinque: mircea_popescu: they've got a nice pretend one with a fence icon, I'm sure
mircea_popescu: for a while i-somethings came with very short power cables, you could pay 20 bux or something for a human sized one.
mircea_popescu: because their primary market was w/e, rabbits or something.
trinque: now only one cable, probably still short
mircea_popescu: i never said this before, because i didn't want to jinx it, but
mircea_popescu: i am fucking shocked they've not yet made square section cables
mircea_popescu: strikes me as exactly the sort of apple-esque innovationitivity.
Chillum: 3d flash memory looks pretty awesome
Chillum drools at 10tb solid state drive
jurov: when square cables twist(inevitably), it is very visible and it looks bad
mircea_popescu: jurov so make them out of dried panda tears so they don't twist.
Chillum: (all legally bought of course"
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Chillum.1:fe02b9a13c2f6575aa1d01aa90703ea5ff5fdf144a166dc8d1aac9869a5e8361
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Chillum with note: wikipedia
mircea_popescu: Chillum i have a coupla tb of movies girls prepped for me that i keep meaning to sometime see
jurov: how much can 10tb of legal content cost? dat's like, 200 blurays
jurov: *legally purchased copyrasted content
jurov: 300 then. better yet.
mircea_popescu: In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> he's from apple. wut firewall ? <<< o.O the same firewall that obsd uses, smarty
decimation: pfsense, yes, another apple thing shamelessly ripped by apple
nubbins`: (what else'd you expect a BSD mutant to use?)
mircea_popescu: you know there's going to be children named turdel because of you people.
danielpbarron: pfsense is a freebsd user-friendlier interface for OpenBSD's PF
trinque: asciilifeform: turdel_with_telnet.gz works over here
nubbins`: trinque haha wd, another one in the club
nubbins`: decimation +1. they used fbsd firewall before that
mircea_popescu: "before turning off the obsd firewall, apple used to turn off the fbsd firewall"
decimation: none of which was prominently displayed on their marketing or specs
nubbins`: well, y'know. they also don't advertise that it comes with tftp
mircea_popescu: decimation dude why the hate, they were just taking from those hacker kids and giving back to the business community!
nubbins`: or the thousand other BSD userland utils.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85590 @ 0.00025935 = 22.1978 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: it's true, because you are on bsd but you never know what is behind the bulkhead
decimation: although I would say that the folks at macports do a pretty good job of porting sane unix to osx
trinque: brew = you're gonna have a bad time
trinque: written with the rubyfuck whimsy that prioritizes cute names over clarity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5660 @ 0.00026059 = 1.4749 BTC [+]
trinque: tapping keg! (winks at camera)
decimation: yeah I tried brew once, after about 15 minutes I ditched that shit
trinque: that guy "why" was a good fly zapper
nubbins`: maybe i'll do up a keg for 0.5.3.1 ;p
trinque: nubbins`: dunno, I could have laid into 'er too hard, but I've had to nuke my brew install > two hands amount of times
nubbins`: i nuked mine 3-4 times before i even started to understand wtf i was doing
trinque: probably makes more sense after you map the whimsy to useful symbols
nubbins`: just think of it as apt-get with weird terminology
trinque: it has a use-flags-esque thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.00026293 = 11.306 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: very vaguely lulzi wikipedia drama : apparently they have some sort of "did you know that..." advertising shtick.
mircea_popescu: one of the items in there was at some point that after [[Melina Perez|Melina]] ''(pictured)'' stripped [[Torrie Wilson]] in a bra & panties match at '''[[The Great American Bash (2005)]]''', referee [[Candice Michelle]] stripped Melina and herself as well?
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what this is, except iirc godaddy had a candice michelle doing some random sluttery in their bangbros inspired style.
mircea_popescu: however! an admin (bedford) launched in a very... naggumesque, so to say rant, on some blog or something. myspace profile ?
mircea_popescu: and as a result, mega huge shitfest, because how can he say things like feminazi and pms
mircea_popescu: "Bedford, if you really wrote that, I ask you to resign your adminship. I have no opinion right now if such a request is legitimate based on policy, or precedent. I only know you've lost my faith in your ability to act in a reasonable and impartial manner. And if you didn't write it, you need to find out who is impersonating you on myspace, because they're making you look really, really, really bad."
mircea_popescu: *I have desysopped him. This is not even a close call. He's so far over the line of the conduct - both onsite and offsite - that I expect from admins that nothing short of a full and complete apology for his behavior and a retraction of his comments will do. Additionally, he will have to stand for re-election if he dares. As for me, I would never vote for someone with this kind of behavior in his history."
mircea_popescu: this is VERY amusing, seeing how child porn is in jimbo's history.
decimation: note the meanings of the words "reasonable" and "impartial"
decimation: "say what the fuck we want you to say when we want you to say it"
mircea_popescu: somehow factual unpleasantness does not belong in the soi dissant encyclopedia.
Chillum: what this place has more gossip than my mom's bridge games
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45101 @ 0.00024778 = 11.1751 BTC [-]
decimation: "Marc Benioff, the chief executive of Salesforce.com, a technology company with a major presence in Indiana, announced that he would cancel all company events in the state."
decimation: "Jeremy Stoppelman, the founder of Yelp, which publishes online reviews of businesses, issued a warning to states like Indiana that “it is unconscionable to imagine that Yelp would create, maintain, or expand a significant business presence in any state that encouraged discrimination.”"
decimation: ideally Indiana will hold the line and become silicon valley free
mircea_popescu: "This type of combativeness and unseemly behavior is nothing new from Bedford. I suggest a request for user conduct be filed. I am also declining to post this from my account: I am a person of color who edits under my real name, lives close to Bedford and fears harassment or violence. I do not enjoy playing this card, but I grew up in the South and have good reason to fear Confederates and their ilk. 202.155.167.221 (t
decimation: "Gen Con, a convention for game enthusiasts that draws nearly 60,000 people a year to Indianapolis, threatened to relocate its event out of state."
mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, yelp's failure to matter in indiana is ascribed as a fault of indiana.
decimation: as if any of these fuckheads would voluntarily step foot in a non-maritime state
cazalla: mircea_popescu, about to step away in a few mins, what's up
mircea_popescu: other than being named badly, like that baseball team or w/e.
mircea_popescu: cazalla nubbins` link above. border cracked entropy gen.
decimation: "An Indiana law that could make it easier for religious conservatives to refuse service to gay couples touched off storms of protest on Friday from the worlds of arts, business and college athletics and opened an emotional new debate in the emerging campaign for president."
nubbins`: if only it was USER AUDITABLE.
decimation: that's all the detail nyt gives on the matter before proceding on a krokodil-esque rant
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i'll take a look soon
nubbins`: cazalla call the customs agents "notorious" if you can, they seized an ounce of salvia off me once
mircea_popescu: decimation "an indiana law that could" is apparently the politburo approved reference.
nubbins`: asciilifeform oh hey you're right, lel.
mircea_popescu: apparently these oh-so-edumancated kids forgot how to cite laws.
nubbins`: do i even posix-compliant os? ;p
nubbins`: asciilifeform i was mixing the fw_setenv and the one-off directions ;/
decimation: "Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest;
decimation: and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest."
decimation: damn I can feel the hate that drips from that text
mircea_popescu: especially as it provides injunctive and declaratory relief + damages.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, still dies, but that's alot of graveyard
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the general home use of "large ssd" is mostly that, drop some pirated films on it, watch them never.
Chillum: all hard drives die. At least solid state dies in a more predictable fashion with wear levelling
Chillum: asciilifeform: It is just hundreds of copies of the block chain
decimation: it's hilarious that a law that essentially says "congress shall make no law concerning religion" is the epitome of racisis
Chillum: most sensible countries limit government's effect on religion and religion's effect on government
decimation: of course, especially in states where it's expressly forbidden
mircea_popescu: decimation i thought racis is when you beat up black dudes and chauvinist is when you beat up gay dudes. did they meanwhile merge to the shorter easier to pronounce one ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00025242 = 7.6988 BTC [+]
decimation: if the sv crowd is making a distinction it's news to me
decimation: from my corner of usia "chauvinist" implies "hate women"
Chillum: did he go to the wrong summer camp?
mircea_popescu: i thought it was being inflexible with self-actualisation delusions. be it gayness, being a dragon or anything else. if derp says he can shit moons and you point and laugh... a chauvinist is you.
gribble: wn: chauvinist n 1: a person with a prejudiced belief in the superiority of his or her own kind 2: an extreme bellicose nationalist [syn: {chauvinist}, {jingoist}, {jingo}, {flag-waver}, {hundred-percenter}, {patrioteer}]
Adlai drinks and ircs; is this some right of passage or wut
Adlai: asciilifeform: what are you generating TBs of
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ancientstuff, before coming up with his current chumpatron he was doing the sort of thing bitpay guy is trying to bury
Chillum: asciilifeform: You have experience with those Cardanos? How do they output? Can they be hooked to a serial port?
decimation: mr. lifeform is the designer and manufacturer of them - the use usb
danielpbarron: while on subject, what is the intended use case for the cardano? and by that I guess i mean, is it supposed to be used with MPEx? or more like a perfect forward secrecy thing? or can it be both?
Chillum: I have no need, but once I own one I know a need will present itself
jurov: tbh, "mycelium" "entropy" souds like some suspicious chemical
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00025025 = 13.8138 BTC [-]
decimation: apparently usg courts have ruled that 'exit' searches are legal
jurov: mechanical pigeons have radar signature, susceptible to gps jamming and whatnot
Chillum: regulars pigeons have radar signatures too
decimation: yeah civilian radar is designed to work with transponders
Chillum: some airports have bird radar, so don't fly around those
mircea_popescu: anyway, i posit your 2) is rank nonsense. you can either not care what happens to the package, or own the infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: this case where you care and make the package enforce your law against the natives is nonsense.
decimation: maybe eagles should be subject to border search too
Chillum: F-15E Strike Eagle vs normal eagle
mircea_popescu: they'll find a way to crack your steel drum open with dinosaur bones.
mircea_popescu: anyway : you may be right re dirigibles, maybe. but i posit it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with fucking.
mircea_popescu: specifically, when one is looking to get laid, the correct strategy is to keep looking until one runs into a similarly minded bit of tail
mircea_popescu: NOT to try and devise a magical wand that makes arbitrary bits o' tail similarly minded.
mircea_popescu: well maybe like that. thos ounds pretty golden-toilety.
mircea_popescu: undata is strictly gay for spacestation hikes and alf is putting out for archeologists.
mircea_popescu: also, by the time things are in that rut, cheaper to bribe agents than to fight the tech war.
decimation: asciilifeform: they already have many such bans
decimation: actually it would be amusing for a robber to sue you for recording him without permission
decimation: or more precisely, the state to charge you
mircea_popescu: i know of case robber suing because he hurt himself falling through hole in roof he made
Chillum: I don't think you have an expectation of privacy while robbing
decimation: Chillum: that's now how the wiretap law is worded
Chillum: anyone can sue for any reason, the question is how successful were they?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107200 @ 0.00026369 = 28.2676 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: anytime lawyers are involved everyone except lawyers loses
Chillum: to hire a lawyer you need money and... just money
mircea_popescu: Chillum maybe. this is not exactly so, much like to get a plumber is not just a matter of money.
mircea_popescu: Chillum idiotic eu concept. let's make up rights maybe people vote for us.
Chillum: there are lawyers with standards and there are lawyers who will take any paid job
Adlai: what's a kiddie diddler?
Adlai: like the young master s
Chillum: blackmail and covert ops have gone hand in hand historically
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform subreason i linked that is, check out jimbo mouthpiece for google. ALSO not algorithmic, exactly.
Chillum: but there are agents and there are assets
Chillum: being an agent is having a job, being an asset is being property
Chillum: nubbins` said the converstation was better here
Chillum: oh ya, meeting of the minds
mircea_popescu: Chillum it's not better per se, just the variety of assholes is greater.
decimation: asciilifeform: that's not a small pigeon
Chillum: diversity is the key to assholery
Chillum: RFC 2549 is my favourite RFC
decimation: make it a turboprop and you can fly up to predator altitutde
mircea_popescu: one day this guy is going to make us sorry we mocked yekudsky
Chillum: if you want to stay in the air a long time go for a lighter than air drone
jurov: 50kg battery means 5m3 helium blimp
Chillum: I suppose if you made an aluminum skin like the hindinburg
mircea_popescu: actually what i'd really like to see would be a truely flying microfibre machine.
decimation: they are flying around the world with the new model
Chillum: just get some radar, go into the desert and figure out what can hold hydrogen but does not absorb or reflect radar
Chillum: hydrogen itself will be more transparent than air
decimation: " 4 × electric motors powered from solar cells and 4 x 41 kWh lithium-ion batteries (633 kg), providing 13 kW[19], electric motors (17.4 HP) each"
Chillum: high voltage on those ion lifters
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not straight up like that. a flexible foil that exploits atmospheric randomness
Chillum: keep in mind that in addition to radar they are looking for signal emissions
decimation: ^ 19ft wingspan for your 52 kg batteries
Chillum: an ion lifter would stick out like a sore thumb
Chillum: you could always just fly between mountains
mircea_popescu: a plastic bag never reaches the bottom, it is ground into mush before.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you could make the waveguide very flat and tiny
Chillum: an ornithopter would work fine on Titan
Chillum: or in the fictional Mars/Barsoom
Chillum: (not the real Mars though)
jurov: mircea_popescu: iirc there is medusa-like contraption that was considered most efficient way to keep heavier tha air machine afloat
jurov: can't find the link
Chillum: did anyone see the Ted talk where they had a hummerbird model flying?
mircea_popescu: the newer polymers hold a lot of promise for strength etc
Chillum: humming bird size, flapping wings, a blur
Chillum: you could put a neural control system on a real bird
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform really more like a manta that's an acre and goes in air.
jurov: if can be done transparent
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> Chillum it's not better per se, just the variety of assholes is greater. << this is prob more accurate
jurov: but it'd need to avoid rain at all costs, i guess
Chillum: there are plenty of weather balloons out there. They don't follow flight plans. A large balloon would not be too out of place
Chillum: you can steer by changing altitude
decimation: there's folks who make a hobby of locating radiosondes
Chillum: it is not that hard to setup a software defined radio to track the transponders of aircraft nearby
decimation: Chillum: yes the popular tool is the rtl 2832 chip on a usb connected to software that decodes mode-s transponder emissions
Chillum: On another topic I am trying to hack my router(without looking up how to, figuring it out is the fun part)
Chillum: I found references to a uart in the firmware
Chillum: hopefully I can pop busybox or something
nubbins`: check out openwrt if you get stuck
Chillum: I want to hack the OS that is on it now
Chillum: insecurity in routers is a real problem. Most homes have a router that can be hacked by anyone who connects over wifi. From there they can packet sniff
Chillum: I have found software from 2002 on my router
Chillum: DLINK likes to keep code a long time
Adlai: #b-a poll: who has found machine learning worth learning, as a human who learns machines their work
Adlai: (for 19th century vernacular values of the transitive 'learn')
Chillum: again, already lots of weather balloons out there going in random directions
Chillum: they go to an altitude above aircraft, when they start dropping the self destruct to avoid the airspace
Chillum: not state of the art. Lighter than air craft are getting very advanced
Adlai: mircea_popescu: sorry but you're not relevant here; you learn people their work, not machines
mircea_popescu: actually, my bird wouldn't be a baloon. it'd be a sheet of plastic, basically. this can have zero size if it wants to
Adlai: not that people aren't machines, but i think that you now know what i means
Adlai knows what he wants, not what he needs
nubbins`: for those who don't watch: guy removes device from package w/o damaging tamper evident sticker
Chillum: asciilifeform: and it did next to zero damage
Chillum: tamper evident sticker will only stop a casual attacker, not one with resources
decimation: ^ which is why the device must be inspectible/audit-able by user
Adlai: some of the devices shipped with teh sticker glued to the wrong side
☟︎ Chillum: If you want to make sure the government has not tampered with a package, put some weed in there. If the weed is still there they probably did not look lol
Adlai: ie sticker covering the hinges of the plastic casing, rather than the clasp
mircea_popescu: you can trivially make tamper evident stickers that aren't fixable with infinite resoruces.
Chillum: ohhh I did not realize we were talking about smuggling devices
decimation: or you could go out back and pick up some uranium ore and build your own rng
Chillum: Semi-submersible latches onto side of cargo ship below the water lines, gets carried
Chillum: I assume since we are on IRC this is hypothetical
nubbins`: Adlai i guess those magnets aren't strong enough.
nubbins`: little silver thing in the case there
nubbins`: <rassah> I would have secured them better by adding a sticker on the other side too (I got them the way you got them before shipping), but I had very few extra stickers. Should have been put on the front. I dont know what happened here. Maybe they were putting them on the sides without realizing how flexible the box is, and only realized when they almost ran out? Pretty sad that after such a huge amount of work adding and improving internal
nubbins`: hardware and software security, that there was such a simple oversight.
Chillum: asciilifeform: I think attaching to the underside of ships
nubbins`: "pretty sad that a fuckin sticker determines whether our device is a paperweight or not"
Adlai almost starts to feel respect for truecrypt devs, who at least admitted, behind their veil of anonimity, that they have nfc what they're doing
Chillum: multiple colors of wax melted into a seal with photo delivered separately is still used by embassies in hostile mail systems
Chillum: very hard to reproduce the identical swirls
Chillum: in nuclear regulatory systems they seal with a metal button and then scratch it up with a pin and photograph the scratches
Chillum: under the assumption that you could not produce identical scratches
Chillum: permeable paper, the wax absorbs into the paper which is a solid seamless envelope
Chillum: again, no box. Small paper envelope
Chillum: wax absored into the paper
Chillum: old school method that still works today. If you can defeat it then you should sell the method to our fav government
Adlai: what about just using fucking pke
Adlai: or is gpg too complex for lizards?
Adlai: who sends coke and plutonium in diplomatic mail+
Adlai: maybe the launch codes. but the nuke itself doesn't fit in an envelope
Adlai: launch codes can be serialized and 'compressed'
decimation: the business end of a nuke is not large at all
Adlai: "Miss Bianca, after all, is a poet too, and in any case she is due to travel any day now by diplomatic pouch to Norway."
danielpbarron: Rejoining the breached container lid, knot, or latch and replacing the broken seal with a new, identical seal would have been, short of stealing the original unique seal carving, impossible to hide from the inspector.
Adlai: danielpbarron: you don't have to touch the seal if the packaging itself is easier to replicate
Adlai: corners and edges are a bitch
decimation: note the couriers watching the pouch cargo personally
danielpbarron: I don't like humor in professional communication. Not in code comments, not in technical manuals, not in user interfaces. << from the reddit thing on the mushroom thing
Chillum: short story, they are not very good
Chillum: he shows how to remove and return the seals used on shipping containers
danielpbarron: Adlai, not if the seal and container are made of the same clay
Adlai: danielpbarron: ie, the entire container is a seal?
Adlai: this is a valid approach
Adlai: or at least, s/is/seems/
danielpbarron: it's not economical / made more sense when voyages were so expensive
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )
danielpbarron: these days there isn't that much to verify that a shipment hasn't been tampered with; a shipping container is "sealed" with a metal peg coated in plastic and stamped with some numbers
Chillum: The problem with the mycelium key is the same printers that accept USB sticks also have internal memory
Chillum: tty thermal printer has no memory
Chillum: and a thermal receipt printer
Chillum: all controlled by 1 button
Adlai: not that it helps anyone
Chillum: It was a kit meant to print twitter feeds
Chillum: so I reimaged the sd with a base raspbian and wrote some python code to get addresses from vanitygen and print them
Chillum: no swap, use that runs vanitygen has read only access to drive and does everything in ram
Chillum: thanks. It was really fun making it
mircea_popescu: first time ppl that wander in here and a) aren't going to spaceghost the bitcoin ; b) aren't retarded.
Chillum: the hwrng on the pi is better than the prng most computers use
mircea_popescu: Chillum we don't trust it because very suspicious corp / closed turd.
Chillum: my understanding is it is avalanche based
Chillum: I agree it is integrated into a black box
Chillum: though most entropy from PRNGs come from hard drive timings, which run black box firmware
Chillum: I doubt there is a modern computer out there that does not have some black box software or firmware
Chillum: it is possible to infect a hard drive with malware. Not the data, the firmware
Chillum: If I could hook up a little device to the usb or serial that gave me numbers I would be more confident in then I would do that
Chillum: with 128 bits to a bitcoin key you do have some keyspace to play with
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00026172 = 11.0708 BTC [-]
decimation: asciilifeform: do you derp around with locks?
Chillum: I try to, but am not very good
decimation: asciilifeform: I'm toying with the idea of buying slightly better deadbolts
Chillum: only if it is your weakest point
decimation: yes, they make laminate for window reinforcement
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not policarbonate replacement for glass in window. it's a very highly adhesive foil, which you stick on the window
decimation: if it's a 'random burglar' it might be enough to convince him to go elsewhere
decimation: possibly, but it would take quite a bit of doing
decimation: all these kinds of security gizmos are quite useless if there's not ability to summon a human to inspect what is going on
mircea_popescu: decimation makes door lock the weak point again is all.
decimation: they are also quite useless against a well-bezzled actor
mircea_popescu: i wonder what % of said paraphenalia is sold to protect your goods, and what % "ticket to shooting your own guy!"
decimation: all I want is to 'run faster than you' away from the bear
decimation: if an army of bears wants to target me, not much can be done
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50019 @ 0.00025534 = 12.7719 BTC [-]
assbot: 3M Scotchshield Automotive Security Films - Clear and tinted Security films for cars, trucks - 3M Scotchshield ... (
http://bit.ly/1ylohzq )
decimation: I suspect that this is 3m's target market
nubbins`: "things changed since, and both GNU and BSD recent versions of tar have support for storing extended attributes. They use incompatible formats"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00026703 = 8.4381 BTC [+]
jurov: Chillum, I added microphone to the rng mix for similar rpi application
Chillum: sound has entropy but it also has a lot of pattern
Chillum: watch out for humming fluorescent lights
Chillum: no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source
jurov: but it's something you can control, such as making suitable noise while the addy is generated
Chillum: sound cards also pick up radio signals
Chillum: the pi in particular has poor sheilding
jurov: crunching paper or cookies bag comes to mind
jurov: or, as i have a window to busy street, i used that
Chillum: I think you over estimate your ability to create entropy with everday objects
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14399 @ 0.00026703 = 3.845 BTC [+]
Chillum: the results will be hard to predict though
jurov: and you think since there will be some hum, any entropy is lost?
Chillum: the debiaser can't tell entropy from pattern
Chillum: it all gets mixed together
jurov: and that's not what debiaser is doing
jurov: you can listen to the sample before using it, to check whether the noise is there
Chillum: noise itself is a repeating wave
Chillum: particularly noises made by objects
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61770 @ 0.00026745 = 16.5204 BTC [+] {2}
Chillum: if you have complete control of your noise source then I suppose it would work
Chillum: but so many noise sources are very orders and all around us. 60hz is all around us
Chillum: Say I start creating variants on a 6hz tone and create keys with that tool. I may just make the same key as someone else who used it near a lamp
Chillum: or at least reduce my keyspace
jurov: yes, if you insist using lamp and nothin else as your audio
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 12 @ 0.10041665 = 1.205 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00026653 = 13.9662 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: hey, we also know a guy who prints t-shirts, don't we...
Chillum: I have a shirt that says "I read your e-mails"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60149 @ 0.00026652 = 16.0309 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7532 @ 0.00026652 = 2.0074 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21550 @ 0.00025547 = 5.5054 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: "Women guaranteed at least 50% of jobs on Victorian government boards" << wd oz, get those numbers up!
pete_dushenski: because quotas based on stupidity will surely yield genius results
pete_dushenski: and so what if they're all size 6 because there wasn't more leather
Chillum: hey everybody, we're all going to get laid!
pete_dushenski: Monday 12 January 2015 will go down in confectionery history as a bad day. A hurtful day.
pete_dushenski: The day when it was revealed that Cadbury’s Creme Eggs have changed for ever.
pete_dushenski: No longer shall the egg shell be made from delicious Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. It will instead be made from disgusting, foul, vomit-inducing “standard cocoa mix chocolate”.
pete_dushenski: The spokesman said the new chocolate had been tested on “consumers” – industry shorthand for “idiots”, clearly – and had been “found to be the best one for Creme Egg”.
pete_dushenski: Already, this egg announcement is threatening the stability of the UK government. What havoc will this monster wreak next?
pete_dushenski: Are we really going to swallow this bad egg, America? For that is what Cadbury has wrought. A bad egg. And today will for ever be known as a bad day.
pete_dushenski: if a chocolate egg is unsettling the balance, by golly bitcoin barely needs to sneeze in the uk's general direction
Chillum: but the egg thing is bad too
mircea_popescu: <Chillum> no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source << howdja figure that one ?
Chillum: you can't create entropy with an algorithm
Chillum: we were talking about sound as a source of data
pete_dushenski: "The Cadbury Creme Egg was a rare thing in this modern age. Its subtle blend of delicious chocolate and sweet, creamy/cremey yolk was a throwback to the days when chocolatiers took pride in their work." << right. the thing of which 500 mn are made per year, 2/3 of which are consumed in the uk (no wonder they have rotten teeth), is "boutique"
mircea_popescu: there's this algorithm which consists of : flip biased coin twice. if flips agree, one thing. iof they disagree, another thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00025547 = 16.3629 BTC [-]
Chillum: but if the source is a lamp humming 60hz how does the algo filter the pattern from the entropy without diluting the entropy?
Chillum: I know that algo, it removes bunching. It does not remove more complex patterns
mircea_popescu: it doesn't "dilute" anything. if you have 1 bit of entropy per byte, it puts out one byte every eightish bytes.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sounds like 'repositioning' the creme egg in the uk is akin to 'repositioning' baby george's nose from his face to his ass.
Chillum: bias is only one type of pattern though
mircea_popescu: in the case of your lamp, it basically extracts phase transition errors
Chillum: my point was that debiasing will not remove periodic patterns
Chillum: that are not next to each other
Chillum: perhaps I am not getting it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.0002547 = 9.8314 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i mean, a biased source is a biased source. do you mean it's not actually biased, but the bits are correlated ?
mircea_popescu: something like "always output 0 if the previous 7th output was 1" or whatever ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93050 @ 0.00025464 = 23.6943 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102156 @ 0.00025566 = 26.1172 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 27-03-2015 23:32:15; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> who the fuck explains their income ? <ben_vulpes> in the states, if they think they have a case they freeze your assets. << aha. sit on the stake until explained, yes.
pete_dushenski: "The CRA has broad powers to investigate suspected tax cheats. In the process of conducting a civil audit to assess how much tax a person really owes, the tax agency can call up bank records, freeze accounts, compel the release of business, payroll and other records, and root through land registries and other government data." << sop
mircea_popescu: it can do whatever the fuck it feels like, with its own data.
mircea_popescu: it can't ask me "hey where you got your money from". unless im a politician and submitted some sort of "this is what my fortune is" statement.
pete_dushenski: it can't ask "what was this line from this person from on your bank statement" ?
pete_dushenski: i was under the impression that every line had to be explained.
mircea_popescu: it's not a question of "where it's from", but "why have you not reported it". which ideally you have reported.
mircea_popescu: "how come you have something" != "how come you told us earlier this income is extempt when it clearly isn't"
trinque: "looks like a cocaine running air submarine to me"
mircea_popescu: trinque kinda why sane people don't travel into rogue states without an army.
trinque: in my lifetime the perception that rule of law is either real or honest seems to have been fading
trinque: dunno that there ever was a time where rule of law did matter here; I'm neither old enough nor educated enough to say
mircea_popescu: you must have some weird dns issue ? what's the perceived ip ?
mircea_popescu: who the fuck hijacks blog dns's ? and also... www just goes to plain domain.
trinque: pete_dushenski: got the "ssl everywhere" extension?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31882 @ 0.0002682 = 8.5508 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54818 @ 0.00027047 = 14.8266 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: is there nothing unworthy of having a conference about ?
pete_dushenski: mebbe "bitcoind pogo afficionados" is near the threshold for obscurity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34158 @ 0.00026676 = 9.112 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00026699 = 3.2439 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: they're not NAKED. they're in their jimbo blessed underwear.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00027047 = 21.8945 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29081 @ 0.00026344 = 7.6611 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65500 @ 0.00026717 = 17.4996 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72160 @ 0.00026418 = 19.0632 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63810 @ 0.00025852 = 16.4962 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81600 @ 0.00025852 = 21.0952 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122800 @ 0.00025852 = 31.7463 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4030 @ 0.00025852 = 1.0418 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00026248 = 7.5332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30744 @ 0.00027081 = 8.3258 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37234 @ 0.00026856 = 9.9996 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189470 @ 0.00026209 = 49.6582 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00025439 = 5.1005 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44865 @ 0.00025894 = 11.6173 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152335 @ 0.00025302 = 38.5438 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72365 @ 0.00025006 = 18.0956 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35896 @ 0.00026181 = 9.3979 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190833 @ 0.00025329 = 48.3361 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86423 @ 0.00025418 = 21.967 BTC [+]
nubbins`: <+pete_dushenski> No longer shall the egg shell be made from delicious Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. It will instead be made from disgusting, foul, vomit-inducing “standard cocoa mix chocolate”. <<< you think that's bad? get this: in the usa, cadbury chocolate is manufactured by /hershey's/. and they don't even get the milk from jersey cows.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36426 @ 0.00024933 = 9.0821 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: "that's such an /american/ thing, hey? 'mentoring'? movin' to a big city and getting yourself a mentor or five?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35777 @ 0.00025418 = 9.0938 BTC [+]
nubbins`: "Hey guys I am down at the Texas Bitcoin Conference and someone took my red notebook. There was not a whole lot of valuable info in it but it was a gift. If you saw it tonight at marias taco xpress or know where it wound up please notify me. I thought this was outside bitcoiners' character but I am never surprised in this space"
nubbins`: first comment: "Don't know if this is an actual notebook or a laptop" hahaha
nubbins`: okay, sweet. i've got a 60GB SSD and a 64gb UHS-1 SD card on the way.
nubbins`: curious to see how much the SD chokes
nubbins`: and finally found a good price for purple pogos, two of them on the way
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33868 @ 0.00026964 = 9.1322 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00026988 = 13.9798 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: nubbins what ever happened to that wood carving with your name on it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34432 @ 0.00026964 = 9.2842 BTC [-]
nubbins`: funkenstein_ the guy wouldn't sell it to me. total fraud.
funkenstein_: lol, that sucks. well at least you got some pictures :)
nubbins`: o hey i took everyone's advice and started a blog
nubbins`: BUT NONE OF YOU WILL FIND IT INTERESTING AHAHAHAHAHAH
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00026465 = 15.1909 BTC [-]
assbot: Biden Worries Legalized Weed In D.C. Will Cut Into His Business | The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... (
http://bit.ly/1ymrnTY )
nubbins`: "Claiming that his operation would be “completely dicked over” by an influx of product, Vice President Joe Biden reportedly became increasingly worried this week that the recent legalization of marijuana in Washington, D.C. could seriously cut into his business."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17336 @ 0.00026701 = 4.6289 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110482 @ 0.000272 = 30.0511 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22875 @ 0.00027256 = 6.2348 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44750 @ 0.00026374 = 11.8024 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: ABC (anti-ball crushing) engineering gives you and the family jewels room to breathe
assbot: Major publisher retracts 43 scientific papers amid wider fake peer-review scandal - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1xIDOig )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163050 @ 0.00025707 = 41.9153 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: a peer review and citation ring
nubbins`: like a web ring, but funner and in meatspace
nubbins`: and with the potential to set back scientific research :S
chetty: <nubbins`> and with the potential to set back scientific research :S// is that even possible?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61960 @ 0.00026226 = 16.2496 BTC [+]
Chillum: haha "screw you guys, I am going to start my own embassy with blackjack and hookers!"
Chillum: "in fact, forget about the embassy!"
PeterL: When does #b-a start our own emabassies?
Chillum: well, they declared a tax so an embassy must be around the corner
chetty: ppfft on embassy, let them come here to the capital
PeterL: hardware b-a is our capital now?
Chillum: capital of bitcoin? Like "B"?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00027261 = 7.4968 BTC [+]
chetty: oops capitol ;P -- on theother hand I like the B idea better
Chillum: never seen that spelling before
Chillum: I have been spelling that wrong my what life
chetty: thats edumacation these days
PeterL: 'capitol' is specifically the building where the legislature meets, 'capital' is the city
nubbins`: soooooo, the pogoplug mobile (non-sata) has solder pads for attaching a SATA connector
nubbins`: and: the heat sink is on the bottom of the board, so you can take off the lid without repercussion
nubbins`: you can see it just south of the middle there
nubbins`: asciilifeform danielpbarron etc ^
nubbins`: Chillum eventually it'll be running bitcoind
Chillum: Nice. I tried that on a Pi 1 but it chocked
nubbins`: this particular one got its NAND rewritten in a not-fun way, so i'm gonna be adding a serial port
Chillum: Trying now on a Pi 2 and it is going well( at 250,000 block)
nubbins`: Chillum prolly 'cause you're using the latest phoundation bloatware
nubbins`: running it on my macbook now, ~ block 180k
Chillum: There is so little information on that site about what the changes actually are or how they have been audited. It seems to have been made in November. It would be a bit like running a custom code version of PGP
Chillum: the security implications are significant
nubbins`: it's based on the historical 0.5.3
nubbins`: with a bunch of plain unix patches applied
nubbins`: there's a RELEASE NOTES included that lists the patches applied
Chillum: I will keep an eye on the project
nubbins`: but if you're so inclined, you could actually just grab legacy 0.5.3 from your favourite source, and apply the patches listed on the site
nubbins`: they're all small enough that you can fit each one inside your head enough to understand it
Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client
nubbins`: right now people are just ripping the turds out
Chillum: just like the bittorrent reference client sucked(but did what it needed too, reference the protocol) so does bitcoind
felipelalli: I want to buy 1 BTC in Monero. Here is a good place to ask?
Chillum: If anything QT should have nothing to do with bitcoin other than being in a client that accesses the daemon
Chillum: and the API needs to spit out parsed block data on demand so that 3rd party apps can work with the data
nubbins`: anyway, check out that pastebin, that's the release notes for 0.5.3.1
nubbins`: all the patches are written by people in here, and pgp-signed
Chillum: "Removes OpenSSL Handshake for RPC commands" Isn't that important?
Chillum: can't I just MITM the connection without that?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00027261 = 18.3194 BTC [+]
nubbins`: there's the patch, you tell me 8)
Chillum: I am sure the change makes it run faster which is great for embedded devices that don't need to worry _too_ much about malware on the machine
nubbins`: the idea here is to get a bare-bones reference implementation
nubbins`: it might come with some sharp corners
Chillum: but I am making a security app for a client. Security is a priority over speed.
Chillum: May try that out for my own purposes
nubbins`: asciilifeform would be the one to question about the specifics of it 8)
Chillum: I just need to make a $100 node
Chillum: I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed
Chillum: though all of that can be disabled in config
Chillum: better hope nobody packet sniffs your API access.
nubbins`: this whole thing started with asciilifeform wishing he had bitcoin source code in dead-tree form
Chillum: if it is all internal it should be fine
Chillum: my box needs to expose its API though
Chillum: A great idea for a light node though, if the security situation permits it
Chillum: The page could use more information about the security implications and the expected use case though. Someone might get told it is the latest and greatest and not realize security has been bypassed
Chillum: really SSL is not using that much horse power compared to the other stuff the client does
Chillum: In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out
☟︎ nubbins`: felipelalli why otcbot isn't in #bitcoin-assets channel?
PeterL: what would assbot do in -otc?
felipelalli: I thought assbot also worked as a gribble backup?
Chillum: the bandwidth that goes through the API is so small that the SSL module would be using a negligible amount of resources
PeterL: assbot is a gribble replacement
felipelalli: PeterL: replacement, not backup? hmmm, but if it is a replacement, why it isn't in #bitcoin-otc so?
PeterL: well, not really replacement, just not a backup
PeterL: they make a more resilient system with two nodes rather than one
assbot: Logged on 08-10-2014 17:48:30; mircea_popescu: how's slotful lust ?
nubbins`: felipelalli here's a question. you bake a cake. why didn't you bake your neighbour one?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154701 @ 0.00027278 = 42.1993 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: if -otc wants a new bot, someone there can set one up
nubbins`: i doubt kakobrekla wants to do it, since he doesn't idle in -otc :D
felipelalli: I was asking because gribble is kind of "universal", it is in everywhere, including here, and also in #bitcoin-bra --- I thought assbot was a kind of universal WoT like gribble.
assbot: [MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00009 / 0.00009033 / 0.000091 (15000 shares, 1.36 BTC)
Chillum: ahhh, did not get the name
Chillum: no honey, I swear the assbot is for strictly business purposes!
nubbins`: every time she'd open my laptop, 5 seconds later an onjoin alert from assbot pops up on screen
nubbins`: ater some weeks: "...what's assbot?"
PeterL: #b-a is special, we get a special bot
thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)
Chillum: and I will make one to monitor the uptime of yours
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00024754 / 0.00026065 / 0.00027314 (5037215 shares, 1,312.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0001443 / 0.00024169 / 0.00028483 (19175310 shares, 4,634.62 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00032777 / 0.0004493 (91445718 shares, 29,973.86 BTC)
PeterL: thestringpuller: are you picking on scoopbot? ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00027101 = 6.8837 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103204 @ 0.00027313 = 28.1881 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80660 @ 0.00027438 = 22.1315 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11075 @ 0.00027449 = 3.04 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i always wondered why there was a Future Shop and a Best Buy less than a block away from each other
nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16899 @ 0.00027449 = 4.6386 BTC [+]
Chillum: nubbins`: they use pepper spray around here
mircea_popescu: -NickServ- m_p!~matter_pa@49.207.189.76 failed to login to mircea_popescu. There has been 1 failed login attempt since your last successful login. << check it out ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00026917 = 4.051 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: apparently wikipedia is keenly aware it exists primarily as an advertising source. just... not for the fucking chinese aaaite ?
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:56:34; Chillum: In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out
pete_dushenski: ssl provides much security theatre and little apparent security
Chillum: I still think my clients would prefer their api keys encrypted
mircea_popescu: Chillum i suspek you have to do a bunch of log reading to acclimate to the groupthink.
Chillum: I never was very good at group think
Chillum: my own damn opinions keep getting in the way
mircea_popescu: yes, that's the problem there : in order to have your own oppinions you need to study the groupthink.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, you're just passing (to yourself, at least) groupthink as oppinions.
Chillum: most ssl vulnerabilities come from poor cert checking
Chillum: exactly, not a reason to stop fucking
Chillum: it is for perfect forward secrecy isn't it?
Chillum: how is using plaintext instead of SSL better?
mircea_popescu: in most practical scenarios, the only enemy any user will ever encounter is the usg.
mircea_popescu: security solutions that avoid this point are exercises in disinfo.
Chillum: In most practical scenarios the enemy is a person trying to steal bitcoins
mircea_popescu: now, this entire "yeah the usg is your main enemy but whatever, you don't really want to protect your fucking tweets from them anyway" worked to propose turdstack = pancake.
Chillum: I have worked in computer security for 15 years. While many implementations of SSL host checking are flawed and the hierarchial trust model is a joke the underlying encryption is solid until some learns to find prime factors of large numbers easily.
mircea_popescu: with the advent of bitcoins, things have changed. a stolen bitcoin is a stolen bitcoin no matter how the theft was perpetuated, or under what color of law.
mircea_popescu: Chillum but they do in fact ALL accept verisign master keys.
Chillum: I think it should come with a big "NO SSL" warning next to the download so people are not caught unaware
Chillum: I am aware of heartbleed, an implementation failure
Chillum: plaintext also has a history of failure
Chillum: read the patches before running it
mircea_popescu: "an implementation failure" ? the time we took out usg's most valuable asset and publicly shot it in the head was "an implementation failure" "?
mats: have you read the openssl code Chillum?
funkenstein_: chillum its not the encryption thats broken its the authentication
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, is the "valued crypto" bit starting to fuzz over there ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't you use to bemoan the fact that "no valued crypto stuff is ever leaked" ?
Chillum: so because ssl has had problems it is better to use plain text?
mircea_popescu: maybe it just doesn't look like what you expect is iall.
Chillum: security is layers, that is how the industry works
Chillum: SSL will stop all but the most advanced of attackers
mircea_popescu: "ssl will stop all but the actual attacks you will encounter"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wrote the meta-nsa micromanagement three ring binder too ?
Chillum: actual encounters = some script kiddie running ettercap to intercept your traffic
funkenstein_: Chillum, go listen to moxie marlinspike's talks on the topic
Chillum: not all attackers are people in dark server rooms with ciggerette smoking g men behind them
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ incidentally, about 5x better than sending someone to go listen to something is transcribing the something so they can read it.
mircea_popescu: Chillum just all the ones you should practically care about.
funkenstein_: nokia was caught capturing all ssl traffic through their networks at one point
mircea_popescu: get it to any other standard, you'll do as bad as all the schmucks on windows
Chillum: It is clear I have stumbled into a religious debate. I have no more interest in changing your mind about SSL than I do with you changing my mind. I will run SSL on my bitcoind API if you don't mind.
funkenstein_: sslsniff is a tool you can use to capture ssl data
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84000 @ 0.00027191 = 22.8404 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Chillum definitely can run whatever the heck you please.
mircea_popescu: but a debate doesn't become religious by declaratory relief from having to think about it.
Chillum: I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by saying SSL is not a turd, if this is a controversial statement I will keep it to myself
mircea_popescu: offending people is required to participate here i thought.
funkenstein_: all of bitcoin communications are plaintext and public right?
Chillum: asciilifeform: nobody is disputing that SSL has issues, but plaintext is not a better alternative
mircea_popescu: Chillum have you seen the numerous cases where we pass back and forth "plaintext" over pastebin here ?
Chillum: I am going to get some fresh air
funkenstein_: all TXs, block DL requests, block solution reports, node announcements etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00027449 = 10.7875 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i don't think that's a supported usecase as of yet ? mebbe i'm behind here.
ben_vulpes: <Chillum> [14:55] In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out << dude this is a something like 4 month long project going on here
Chillum: yes I am building a full node on a raspberry pi 2 to be used as a hot wallet
ben_vulpes: there is more context in this channel than dreamt of in all of reddit, Chillum
ben_vulpes: maybe instead of "herp derp i pinions bros" you might start by asking "why did you rip TLS out with such anger and speed?"
Chillum: if you were not using a wallet then I agree SSL is pointless
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he's not from reddit, he's from wikipedia. pls to not insult teh muggles with misidentification.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ssl is for any application where security theatre is +ev and security itself doesn't matter.
Chillum: you can control the keys in ssl. You don't have to use existing authority chains you can make your own
Chillum: in fact trusting verisign or something to authenticate keys is the root of most problems
mircea_popescu: Chillum and also make your own implementation, to not depend on "implementation errors" ?
funkenstein_: for example if i am trying to publish a transaction to the world with my wallet, why would i encrypt it before sending?
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1D0hill )
Chillum: all tools have potential for implementation errors
mircea_popescu: Chillum the problem is we know ssl to be intentionally misimplemented. as you say, on layers.
Chillum: funkenstein_: you don't. Buy when you contact the API and provide your API keys you want that encyrpted
Chillum: the cert system is for sure
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski is that actually the guy ? who even made mycellium ?
Chillum: funkenstein_: bitcoin JPSON-RPC
Chillum: also when using the API we will be passing private keys
Chillum: very sensitive information
Chillum: how would you import a key into a wallet if not with the API?
Chillum: it is an automated system so no mouse clicks
Chillum: sockets vs tcp, should be secure both ways
mircea_popescu: Chillum generally, the idea being that running a wallet client and a bitcoin node on the same system (let alone in the same program) is beyond idiotic.
funkenstein_: ok if you run a bitcoind on a remote machine.. ssh into it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11766 @ 0.00027449 = 3.2296 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: that idiocy was easily excusable in 2009. meanwhile, we just don't do that.
mircea_popescu: and whatever customers may "have come to expect", bitcoin is too valuable to cater to that in breach of security and safety. so, options that are by their nature insecure shouldn't be provided at all.
mircea_popescu: whoever wants them can put them in, like you say above.
ben_vulpes: Chillum: what precisely are you building?
Chillum: just a bitcoind node with a wallet and a firewall and an API
Chillum: if the built in API is really that insecure I suppose I can write an access layer
mircea_popescu: single machine paradigm is flawed for this application.
Chillum: what exactly does more than one computer get me?
ben_vulpes: the thing calling into your wallet is also an attack point
mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima
mircea_popescu: Hope you are doing well. I am a client services manager here at AdMedia. I was wondering if there might be a possible partnership opportunity between our two companies. We have previously and recently ran campaigns for trilema.com via third party networks. We wanted to discuss the opportunity of working directly
Chillum: So if I understand correctly SSL was removed because if I need SSL I am doing it wrong?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: because they can spell and write their own e-mails ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and read their own dbs and advanced shit like that!
Chillum: May I suggest that you describe your best practices so that people running this SSL free code will know how to not do it wrong?
Chillum: I would love to read an essay describing the sort of infractructure you find safe
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 16:31:34; mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima
Chillum: I am interested in other ideas, it is just a bit hard to understand what your best practices are
Chillum: I will read _some_ of the logs later
mircea_popescu: not like there's any rush. and generally, the stuff you're used to worrying about holds no sway here. so.. .jus relax an' enjoy.
Chillum: avoiding the need for encryption on the API through sound security practices is one thing. Recommending something without encryption without describing those practices is a recipe for disaster.
ben_vulpes: if you *want* to run it, and *can* read the provided documentation, do so.
ben_vulpes: if you haven't, stop in here and expose your ignorance for all.
mircea_popescu: Chillum yeah. like, you know, how the bitcoin wallets were plaintext for... i dunno, 3years or so.
ben_vulpes: Chillum: some day i'd like this thing to not even have a json/rpc api.
Chillum: It was recommended to me by two people here before I read the patches
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this may or may not be true, upon contemplation.
mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes you think some warnings should be brewed maybe ?
☟︎ Chillum: air-gap is not an option for me, it needs to be automated
Chillum: though it will use a cold-wallet reserve system to minimize exposure
ben_vulpes: perhaps throw an error on boot if someone tries to use the tls flags.
mircea_popescu: Chillum : better plan, sign your txn off the hot box, import them there through private connection.
Chillum: again, needs to be automated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00027545 = 5.4264 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes dunno how best implemented, but he raises a good point we're prone to neglect : as exposure increases, which it necessarily will,
Chillum: was going to use firewall enforced vpn
mircea_popescu: the number of random people trying random things will exponential
Chillum: you guys should make a white paper
mircea_popescu: firewalls are finnicy to setup, but once correctly setup on a linux box they're reliable.
ben_vulpes: Chillum: and if the web host talking to the API gets compromised?
ben_vulpes: <Chillum> you guys should make a white paper << myeah. someday, i'm sure.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it'd be one way nah ? from his wallet to the node. not the other way.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu as seen in my latest submit: "Follow these instructions at your own peril, and upon risk of divestment, dismemberment, or death."
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: well something has to poke the wallet in an automated fashion
nubbins`: all of those things are possible and if you press alf he'll admit that he expects all three
ben_vulpes: because he's building a robo-remitter?!
Chillum: ben_vulpes: That is always a risk with a hot wallet, but if the system needs to be automated then what is the alternative?
Chillum: If the solution being offered is an air-gap then that only works in certain scenarios
mircea_popescu: Chillum not to pry into your soul here, but mind describing the cause of the need for automation ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00027548 = 14.8208 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: an airgap is merely a golden standard BECAUSE it disallows automation. there's ipso definitio no automated airgap.
Chillum: Security is easy if you have to manually approve each and every transaction
mircea_popescu: not so easy and quite expensive, which is why alternatives are always tempting. but go on ?
Chillum: most companies want tools that work without their intervention
Chillum: consider the use case of a service that rents say minecraft servers by the hour. The user need to be able to establish a balance and later withdraw their balance when they are done in a reasonable amount of time
Chillum: the owner relies on it being low maintenance in order for it to be profitable
Chillum: which is very common in internet based companies
mircea_popescu: Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he basically wants trilema credits for whatever.
ben_vulpes: 2) if it's that low margin, why bother in the first place?
mircea_popescu: Chillum i've been trying to shoehorn random people into doing it since... omgerd 2013.
Chillum: you do realize that some of the most successful internet companies are low margin right?
Chillum: well the issue with bitcoin hosting is lack of accountability. The guy who is renting the servers to the bitcoin anon will get the abuse complaints when they spam
Chillum: which is why software as a service is a better option
Chillum: well mircea I can write a wrapper for AWS that accepts bitcoins from people on a whitelist
Chillum: it will be a lot of work to do it securely though
Chillum: but if there is demand and a willingness to pay a reasonable markup
Chillum: I could offer raspberry pis, but you would need to VPN your own internet connection to them, I don't want bitcoin/irc dudes using my home internet lulz
Chillum: I got 5 Pi 2s and 10 more on the way
Chillum: having a crate of computers is great. Having them all work on the same problem at the same time is awesome
Chillum: well you would want network diversity for that
Chillum: release a screensaver that does it lol, worked for SETI
mircea_popescu: Chillum i was thinking, get the naked ladies to do specials.
Chillum: most resource expensive screensaver EVER
Chillum: Instead of renting servers send cheap computers to volunteers for free. Will be cheaper in the long run
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you recall, his argument 10 minutes ago stated correctly that "people will install anything at any time for any reason
Chillum: just make sure you remove the bootloader so they can't reflash it
Chillum: otherwise people will volunteer for free hardware
Chillum: it works great, but only to a certain scale
Chillum: well can the WoT give you 20,000 volunteers if you needed them?
mircea_popescu: the wot works perfectly well on any scale larger than where a democracy breaks down
Chillum: okay fair enough. I dont' know what scale you are working on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48382 @ 0.00027576 = 13.3418 BTC [+]
nubbins`: Chillum, you're thicker-skinned than most
Chillum: I have been an admin on wikipedia for 8 years, the thin skinned ones die out
mircea_popescu: nubbins` formulate plan : only invite potheads to b-a. nubbins` looks upon results : good good goood!
Chillum: we deal with flat earthers on a daily basis
Chillum: creationists, flat earthers, anti-vacers, young earthers
mircea_popescu: i mean, sa kruger going "impossible" i can see. it was early.
mircea_popescu: but by now ? how the fuck would you think it's flat. "because it looks flat from space" ?
nubbins`: the satellite launches are hoaxes
Chillum: it involved sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
nubbins`: those dots you see moving, unblinking, across the sky 20x a night are the lizards
Chillum: we hear from the people trying to reveal the truth about the lizards a lot
mircea_popescu: Chillum i understand how the stupidity defends itself - like any other. what encuriouses me is... how does it get born.
Chillum: and of course the jews did 911
Chillum: It was not born, ignorance predates knowledge
Chillum: don't quote me out of context lol
mircea_popescu: (the funniest thing about this is that not having read the logs, he can't help but wonder about it lol)
nubbins`: "47 results for lizard hitler" my sides
ben_vulpes: #ba is tops on my google for lizard hitler
ben_vulpes: who sez they don't use algos anymore, eh?
ben_vulpes: someday we'll be tops for any string starting with turd as well
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes they still use algorithmics for the outskirts. which is why the "long tail" revolution happened in seo.
ben_vulpes: yeah, let's bring back the directories!
Chillum: a hand crafted index of the internet?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu it's not his fault that conspiracy theory concepts are good metaphors for the actual missed points
mircea_popescu: nubbins` blame does not attach to fault, blame attaches to agency.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ftr, since im here my brain has decided to multivocalize all j's as h's too, for good measure. and as you logged in it just proposed "hosed" as a possible interpretation of your user.
funkenstein_: actually that is how that username was born :)
funkenstein_: somebody was talking about a "hosed bus" when i needed to pick one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00027576 = 2.6473 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's nothing, he's permeating harem speech. yest i was waffling over whether to go to icecream place, girl goes "well not like we gotta go and get the imensatron necessarily". ie, we could get a smaller tub. but no - imensaTRON!!1
ben_vulpes: by the way what is up with billinghurst
ben_vulpes: it's the only word where the l's are pronounced?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, anyone care to guess the name of the street my office's on ? its a food item.
mircea_popescu: dude. i been despising their local accent and doing the proper y = ll thing, but im totally going to say it as bishinghurst
ben_vulpes: i'd like to see you do this to some poor cabbie
ben_vulpes: lol no are you trying to intuit from context again?!
ben_vulpes: somehow i doubt you're going to have more children than me
mircea_popescu: dude your line's not even been to any masculinity conferences.
ben_vulpes: i was actually musing on the absence of any leads-only tango practicas in town
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49813 @ 0.00027608 = 13.7524 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: nominally, at one point in history, you weren't allowed to lead at a milonga until you'd been more or less given permission from the other leads in town.
ben_vulpes: first, you had to learn to lead by following at the leads practicas, then they'd teach you to lead, then eventually you'd get to go to the milongas.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes their wot died under consumerismo-socialism & peron.
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 11:54:19; nubbins`: "that's such an /american/ thing, hey? 'mentoring'? movin' to a big city and getting yourself a mentor or five?"
ben_vulpes: anyways, point is that it's difficult to learn to lead from followers.
ben_vulpes: and no leaders are interested in growing *more* leaders.
mircea_popescu: "Sat across from a serious man. He’s sunken himself into the soft underbelly of a woman. A fox, true 1960 pussy. Her silver hair knotted in a fat bun, loose upon her neck. "
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 13:41:23; nubbins`: like a web ring, but funner and in meatspace
mircea_popescu: now on the other hand if they happened to you know, do that unspeakable crime aaron schwartz kid's guilty of...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00027656 = 5.0749 BTC [+]
trinque: +Chillum | I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed << the whole RPC thing will likely come out, not for speed but for blowtorching complexity
Chillum: trinque: yes I came to understand that
Chillum: makes a lot of sense in a cold wallet system
nubbins`: angle of who the fuck declares themselves an ambassador of btc anyway
mircea_popescu: long history of this schmuckerdom, who was that polyanna something chick that was doing the "Bitcoin chamber of commerce" ?
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:10:38; PeterL: When does #b-a start our own emabassies?
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:23:56; Chillum: I did not know that
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you ever tried soldering a sata on see what happens ?
nubbins`: sadly no connector handy, but i'm definitely putting a pin in it for later.
mircea_popescu: (odds are the pads are just there because mass produced item)
nubbins`: altho it looks like they're connected to traces.
mircea_popescu: but there's a vague possibility whole shebang's there and disabled in software
nubbins`: there's no mounting holes on this pcb for the top usb port, either, so it's entirely possible the mobile and series4 have different pcbs
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:43:57; Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client
nubbins`: yeah, they're different boards
mircea_popescu: consensus is the sort of thing in bitcoind is probably a lead cause of abortion, lead poisoning, fetal alcohol syndrome and the woes of the rings of saturn
nubbins`: so... shrug. maybe it's like the rtc -- there for the user to add
trinque: en_vulpes | has use cases? << ehehehe one would hope eventually!
mircea_popescu: dude check it out, someone who remembers how bad bittorrent was originally.
mircea_popescu: ftr, for the new souls : torrents were originally dismissed on the strength of how bad the shit / code was originally, as "this'll never work"
mircea_popescu: felipelalli prolly ask fluffypony i think he's the only one here keeping an eye on monero.
Chillum: lol I remember how bad trading files with IRC and FTP was, then I how bad bittorrent was
fluffypony: felipelalli: I can arrange an OTC buy if you need, else Poloniex / Bittrex
Chillum: I remember when people first started making mp3s
fluffypony: Chillum: I remember ripping CDs to MP3s at real time speed
Chillum: I remember when my apple IIgs was pretty neato
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ain't fixing something great ? almost better than having made it in the first place!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71650 @ 0.00027721 = 19.8621 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer?
Chillum: it has a cassette tape drive
Chillum: you had to press play or record to load or save a file
fluffypony: time to save my game...*presses record on the tape player*
Chillum: similar to but different than a 300 baud modem
funkenstein_: Chillum, what kind of chip you have in there, a Dorrito?
Chillum: I used to pick up pager signals with my scanner and decode them through my sound card.
Chillum: was just listening to that funkenstein
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26036 @ 0.00027868 = 7.2557 BTC [+]
Chillum: I smoke weed for breakfast!
Chillum: god bless the grass that grows between the cracks
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:50:26; Chillum: I just need to make a $100 node
nubbins`: yeah, i'm being loose w/ words
nubbins`: i actually just mistakenly wiped the bootcmd env variable
mircea_popescu: buy a pogo try it out, look into the past week's log it's full of people working on it, danielpbarron posted some excellent guides.
nubbins`: i'll be back in 6 months with this wired into a home automation system
nubbins`: lighting levels tied to network hashrate
danielpbarron: the notes page is a really raw collection of links and commands
Chillum: danielpbarron: so where do I get one?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27317 @ 0.00027868 = 7.6127 BTC [+]
trinque: ben_vulpes | now i want a directory! << here comes the #b-a gopher site
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if you're specifically making an experiment about it (which means, you've modeled it, doing things deliberately to observe effects etc) i can see it.
trinque: god damn those were good logs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno anyone that doesn't have a "dead" old sata laying around.
mircea_popescu: but sure, if you're buying a new disk, takes you to 100ish
trinque: danielpbarron: there's neutering wordpress or using some static site generator
mircea_popescu: wp, which sucks, or else ben_vulpes' homeroll thing, which sucks.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00028053 = 1.9497 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: my solid state sata is at 24 gigs, the 5400 rpm one is at 6.5 gigs
trinque: what's the latest compile 0.5.3.1 for pogo doc, if any?
trinque: meanwhile I'll get cross compiling tooling going
mircea_popescu: blkindex0016 almost full, which brings the following issue :
mircea_popescu: what happens once we're over 10k x 2gb = 20tb of blockchain ?
danielpbarron: i don't have a doc for 0.5.3.1 unless it counts to have one for the pre-release patching of 0.5.3
trinque: asciilifeform: I've got enough arm turdboards lying around to justify it
trinque: asciilifeform: ah ok, other than this I have pis
mircea_popescu: Chillum if you absolutely can't find one i'll ok you to get one from our warehouse at dpb
trinque: I'll just get both going, probably just some eselect thing in gentoo right?
Chillum: I am going to read up on them first. Thanks
Chillum: I will either want 0 or 10+, I rarely get 1 of any small computer
Chillum: they work better in little tribes
Chillum: I have a lot of Pi 2s to setup right now. I will look into the pogos though
trinque: danielpbarron: mine arrived from amazon in 4 days with standard shipping, ymmv
nubbins`: Chillum goes to look on ebay <<< cheaper on amazon, almost certainly
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata <<< 64gb on the way, should get me through to the summer at least
mircea_popescu: o wait i forgot, 20mb won't be used, it just needs to be there to not be used. right right.
Chillum: nubbins`: amazon canada sucks. $40, $30 on ebay
nubbins`: Chillum agreed. amazon usa, however...
Chillum: I used to work for an Amazon company
Chillum: using massive arrays of cloud computers to reprice books as fast as possible compared to the market
nubbins`: you can get used pogo (purple logo, w/ sata) for $15usd on amazon, used
Chillum: we would get two customer who wanted their price to be 1 cent below everyone else and we tried to explain that since they are not the only person doing it that they would drop to a penny
Chillum: then complained when it dropped to a penny
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would suspect octo is just badly supplied.
mircea_popescu: the golden standard on ic sourcing is not some derpy valley website.
nubbins`: asciilifeform sort of the thing where you need a foot in the door before they'll even price it out for you
mircea_popescu: Chillum excellent case study in why "customer getting what it tihinks it wants" is no business plan.
punkman: asciilifeform: maybe an Allwinner chip?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see the case for this not being that commodified just yet. but imo unavoidable, with the trend towards it of which raspberry is just a reflection.
punkman: asciilifeform: what's heavy?
Chillum: mircea_popescu: they hire me as a developer, not a consultant
nubbins`: asciilifeform if you get in contact w/ marvell, you might suss out some contacts
punkman: there are kirkwoods without BGA?
Chillum: I could refuse on principal, someone else will make it
Chillum: I have created some truly stupid shit for people
nubbins`: it's not like i don't contact Franmar when i want to find out where to buy bean-e-doo
Chillum: freedom is the freedom to make mistakes. If people want to pay for something I will give it to them. I give free advice, it is rarely taken
mircea_popescu: but the freedom to make mistakes is a luxury not a freedom.
Chillum: frankly if I told my clients that they need to use an air-gap they would tell that it does not fit their business model. They would be right
Chillum: mircea_popescu: without the freedom to make mistakes you are forever under the tyranny of those who are "correct"
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:58:02; PeterL: assbot is a gribble replacement
Chillum: sometimes they turn out to be good ideas
mircea_popescu: and it's not in -otc for the reason any bot is not in any channel : admin didn't ask for it.
mircea_popescu: (we asked for gribble here long ago, which is how it got to be here)
mircea_popescu: i'd much rather see honest sexual slavery than this bs "random bad ideas" exploitation.
mircea_popescu: i suspect on the score of electronics you actually beat my ppls.
mircea_popescu: have been pondering if this pisses me off enough to do something about for a coupla months now.
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:08:04; nubbins`: ater some weeks: "...what's assbot?"
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:10:24; thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:36:51; nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police
nubbins`: mircea_popescu nyoozpaper says austerity
nubbins`: nubbins says latent anger from widespread protests couple years ago
nubbins`: mircea_popescu students were protesting funding cuts. in a couple of the photos, you can see police wearing stickers protesting... pension cuts.
nubbins`: as they discharge tear gas canisters point-blank into faces :0
mircea_popescu: case 1 : you have slow memory, 64 gb of. you need 5 gb. case 2 : you have fast leaky memory, 32gb of. you still need 5gb, but use 15 for redundancy.
mircea_popescu: moreover, there are fixes for the particular effect, buy rowhammer proof sticks.
mats: im under the impression that ecc doesn't mitigate the attack
mircea_popescu: mats these aren't really intended to be multiuser systems.
mircea_popescu: no alf. it's because fuck you, you want to spend fiddy bux.
mircea_popescu: and that's a hole that's there for thermodynamic reasons too. nobody made it.
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine the wallet can ever be anything but pc.
mircea_popescu: no other consideration can beat the advantages of commonality i dun think.
mircea_popescu: Chillum that's why he's such an error correction fanboi.
Chillum: I wonder if that would work on an address
Chillum: what if the error happens in your cpu or hard drive cache?
mats: there's a checksum at the end of an address no?
Chillum: yes, in theory it could change after it is checked though
Chillum: but I think that would invalidate the contract
Chillum: so I _think_ it is not an issue.
mircea_popescu: "and if i find a ten foot tall transparent (not translucent!!!) woman, i might stick my penis into her
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. <<< exactly like *everything*. you'll mollify some rubes with "prosumer" but that's really just $50 with more chrome
mats: after some reinvestigation, SECDED ECC is not good enough to stop row hammering, because it can cause many bit flips. Halvar, et al found up to 25 flipped bits
Chillum: wine can cost more than $50???
Chillum: a bottle that big would be hard to carry
Chillum: I guess it would be a box at that size
Chillum: how did you know my nick name?
mircea_popescu: <chetty> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. << this is me trying to alter eulora database. because you really want a mmorpg server that segfaults when game designers futz with game data.
chetty: mircea_popescu, to be fair it doesnt kill a running server, just keeps it from starting :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82423 @ 0.00027532 = 22.6927 BTC [-]
nubbins`: well ya know. luxury branded as such is precisely marketed towards the aspirational
nubbins`: actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the key of the article being, that if there's a genuinely "Better" anything, it will be in the mass market item, because the savings there are major. nobody is foregoing putting a GOOD something in an item that gets baked > 100mn units.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, if there's some dubious / experimental stuff, it gets put into the luxury item
Chillum: store crucial info in a 5 way parity strip
mircea_popescu: because car makers, like any software designers, are more than willing to externalise their costs
nubbins`: if this cpu flips a bit, burial at space
mircea_popescu: exactly along the lines described in "you're the kid not good enough to sling dope"
mircea_popescu: ie, let our rich customers pay for our automotive research.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu a good example of this is when the nintendo wii came out, and researchers the world over started buying wiimotes for their labs
nubbins`: 3-axis gyro and accelerometers for $40
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ << this is really just a more benign and socially acceptable restatement of alf's meta-nsa thesis.
mircea_popescu: "heterogenous cpus calculating same problem" seems to me like you maybe had too much of the good stuff.
Chillum: valid point, no amount of checking will solve a race condition
Chillum: you can induce random failures in RAM for testing purposes with a hair dryer
Chillum: not good for the ram though
Chillum: best case scenario would be to fail safe, instead of fail silently
mircea_popescu: "this is your new computer ms. robinson. and to repeat our warning : if you misspell it will whip you."
nubbins`: asciilifeform mircea_popescu why not just invent yourselves a friedcat and scoop up some investor fundz, sell a line of USB BITCOIN ERUPTORZ for 2btc each
nubbins`: (speaking of externalizing costs)
Chillum: any project can benefit from OPM
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, most people that survived a halon dump also heard the pov that "the machine just does that when it's displeased"
nubbins`: mircea_popescu asicminer made *thousands* of btc selling those useless keychain miners
nubbins`: first out of the gate, they probably still haven't counted all their money
mircea_popescu: well the reason they haven't is that wallet code is so damned bad.
mircea_popescu: this because russians know enough to not have it any other way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from the other pov, because in the rest of the world this machine is part of bezzleworld.
Chillum: They want a custom built auto, but they want it already made and waiting for them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and there is truth to that, yes. but not just.
mircea_popescu: ima have to cart bricks of cash to the hotel nao. and i will.
mircea_popescu: because, poor ex-billionaire mp doesn't know how to be a ex-billionaire correctly, like whatever frail us schmuck.
chetty: argies use almost all cash, hotels are for touristas
mircea_popescu: it's a halfway world, right ? i hope you survive the indignity :)
chetty: thats a point, you guys might get chem withdrawl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00027604 = 5.7554 BTC [+]
nubbins` recalls staying in Crowne Plaza Bogota and cutting up a particularly dense turd with a sterling silver butter knife so it would flush
nubbins`: this was after 2 weeks in the jungles and slumming around small towns
nubbins`: notfun.jpg tried cutting in half, wasn't enough, had to slice it like a fuckin pepperoni
trinque: or you just pinch it every couple links
nubbins`: mircea_popescu cut right in the bowl, natch
trinque: old buildings, well known not to drop the whole load at once
nubbins`: would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump
funkenstein_: speaking of bogota you see the pics of hail last week?
mircea_popescu: i hate to break it to you nubbins` but this is really not normal.
nubbins`: I LET IT SIT FOR THREE HOURS TO SOFTEN
Chillum: that is what all scatophiles say
trinque: could've just left it and never looked back
nubbins`: trinque <+nubbins`> would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump
nubbins`: my shame prevented me from asking for a new room
trinque: just a bigger tragedy then
Chillum: cutting it up when you have it is not that strange. Telling people about it though...
mircea_popescu: "hello concierge ? yes i need a new room please, this one is full of shit."
trinque: I worked in a hotel once; this would not be the worst thing to encounter
trinque: at least the turd was in the can, not the bed
nubbins`: anyways $100usd buys you a very large amount of nice hotel room in .co
trinque: asciilifeform: final nub question; where's the list of these crossdev targets?
nubbins`: buildroot make is still bailing out while trying to compile -- no joke -- tar 1.28
nubbins`: this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare
nubbins`: and linux, bsd, osx implementations are all almost wholly incompatible
nubbins`: asciilifeform this was kinda the final straw
nubbins`: individual packages, i don't mind kludging
nubbins`: but i have no interest in dismantling buildroot from the top down
nubbins`: will steal wifey's machine this eve
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare << it's reallty very very bad.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, the parallels between usg-poettering "working on" linux and usgavin "working on" bitcoin are utterly striking.
mircea_popescu: here's this monstruous pile of serious problems in dire need of a solution, and here's the transgenderqueer crowd fixing pronouns and breaking the scant few things that almost work.
mircea_popescu: and no, i don't propose that there's an actual office somewhere directing this braindamage.
mircea_popescu: it's just that moot subcultures at the end of their rope spew singlemindedness as a natural fermentation product.
mircea_popescu: i doubt poettering for isntance as much as saw a whiff of a whiff of that.
mircea_popescu: he has a boss in rh who has a boss who has an orlov who has an etc. six strings long, the flea circus.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146808 @ 0.00027532 = 40.4192 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: so this difference between us is enforced in a way you can't ignore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64150 @ 0.00027806 = 17.8375 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: it's like 1.5x as much ip as last time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00028032 = 13.3292 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: for the other crossdev newbs, gcc -dumpmachine will (I think?) give what must be plonked into crossdev --target
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so random ssd question for you. aren't the reads destructive just as writes are ? how come not if not ?
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do they measure charge without altering it
Chillum: blocks are rewritten on a schedule in most firmware I think
mircea_popescu: Chillum that was more of a "we want this hardware to last 25 months exactly" marketin thing i thought
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77189 @ 0.00027266 = 21.0464 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how tiny ? afaik the controlling factor limitng memory atm is that they can't make it thinner than it is because single layer silicone and tunelling becoems a thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47620 @ 0.00028053 = 13.3588 BTC [+]
Chillum: 'commercial nand flash controllers compensate in proprietary ways' = rewriting the block every X reads
Chillum: plus retiring nands and using unused ones after X accesses. One of the ways they hide decay
Chillum: not sure about the exact granularity
mircea_popescu: in any case about 1/4 of the total capacity of a ssd is not actually shown the os.
mircea_popescu: there's ample room in there to count by row, and keep reserves etc.
mircea_popescu: anyone know a fast and painless way to make subtitles for a youtube ?
funkenstein_: i was asking a database guy about log structured databases like the blockchain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50883 @ 0.00027476 = 13.9806 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00028053 = 9.51 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;google closed captioning service
jurov: ^ mircea_popescu may be what you need
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00028065 = 1.7962 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: got muh cross compiler cross compilin'
trinque gets food, then will try to build the foundation's bitcoind
jurov: have a blood of stillborn ready?
trinque: how bout some sacrificial cats?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00028066 = 19.4497 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00028066 = 27.7573 BTC [+]
trinque: changing the arch in auto.sh didn't seem to work
trinque: saw it using system g++ anyway, failed to link the result
trinque: found the relevant patches
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24632 @ 0.00028066 = 6.9132 BTC [+]
mod6: trinque: what OS/arch ?
trinque: mod6: trying to cross compile for the pogo
trinque: asciilifeform: I have crossdev and built a simple main.c which ran on the pogo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00028066 = 7.0867 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: trinque: a hack that i've seen to work is building for arch in a docker container
ben_vulpes: but that's how bizpartner compiles his flugenputer
trinque: ben_vulpes: really just waiting for someone to say "auto.sh doesn't do that yet" so I am aware of whether I'm wasting time fixing it :D
trinque: seems mad about the arch being passed to the openssl compile, which could either be me not having the right environment encantations or who knows
trinque doesn't mind continuing to hump the football
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00028071 = 6.4563 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: asciilifeform re: octopart: lel, think we can run turdel on an Atmel Butterfly? :S
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45350 @ 0.00028083 = 12.7356 BTC [+]
nubbins`: dude it has a piezo speaker and a pin for your lapel, what more do you want?
nubbins`: anyway long+short we'll never get a deal like the pogos until, well, the next pogo-like thing comes along
nubbins`: i doubt pogo paid less than $18/unit.
nubbins`: (for those wondering how $18 can turn profit for amazon sellers -- the current sellers are likely the ones who scooped up pallet loads at $7ea in prior years)
jurov: what about a contest - best memepic made out of it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00028083 = 16.3162 BTC [+]
nubbins`: MFW an avr butterfly costs more than a SATA pogo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fairness, there's 0 price sensitivity from 1 to 10k. pleads against octosite being too useful.
nubbins`: almost none of the items give price breaks beyond 100
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25050 @ 0.0002787 = 6.9814 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220370 @ 0.00027476 = 60.5489 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00027191 = 7.0425 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00027191 = 2.5967 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation.
nubbins`: anything to be gained by enabling mmu support in buildroot? spidey sense says no
mircea_popescu: "It’s absolutely essential for buying stuff in shops. A currency that can’t be used to buy a newspaper on the street is not going to be seen as a real currency by the man on that street." << again and again with this nonsense. what the "man on the street" sees or doesn't see, accepts or hates, whatever the fuck is entirely unimportant.
mircea_popescu: not that i think the replace by fee idea is worth implementing, but the reasons given are lulzy.
mircea_popescu: for the record : a node can do this currently, if a node feels like doing this currently. whether we like it or not is immaterial, really. some miners tried it historically, but it's generally speaking dumb an' so it never caught on.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation. <<< hurtyfeelism
nubbins`: man on the street using special drawing rights to purchase a coffee
mircea_popescu: sort-of like seeing footballers trying to reason about medicine. that's what this entire "buncha derpy kids + some usg moles debating bitcoin" looks to me : like a bunch of nfl picks got parachuted in senegal, and are now trying to get themselves cured of tb
nubbins`: oh wow, osx actually shipped with bsd-tar AND gnu-tar until 10.9
jurov: re: reliable computers vs. luxury cars...apples and oranges
mircea_popescu: industrial products are industrial products. all of them. without exception. exactly the same thing.
mircea_popescu: and, for that matter, the very people in the more "advanced" economies are by now exactly industrial products.
jurov: i haven't heard about "luxury car" with doubled or triply-redundant engine and other stuff
jurov: to achieve 99.9999 whatever uptime
mircea_popescu: the exact way reliability is implemented depends more on the context neh ?
jurov: yes. and luxury ones, too
jurov: better comparison would be a car that can go for years without service break
jurov: or serviceable during movement
jurov: hence, apples and oranges
mircea_popescu: lol @hearn : "So: money is not a mathematical construct. It’s a social construct. The fact that Bitcoin uses some fairly basic maths to coordinate social decisions over the internet doesn’t change that."
mircea_popescu: apparently the eater-of-worlds interepretation of bitcoin got some pretty high level people involved.
mircea_popescu: yes derps, "money" as in usd is a social construct. money as in bitcoin is not a social construct.
mircea_popescu: this is why we're here. cause the superset of your shit is the way to clean your shit out of this world.
nubbins`: money is not a mathematical construct?
mircea_popescu: eh, he has a skeleton of good points, on which he plants the usual bs.
nubbins` invites hearn to use money without numbers
nubbins`: what next, statistics is not a mathematical construct?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nothing's anything and if you have a business obama made that business
mircea_popescu: but anyway : usd is currently trying to use money without numbers.
mircea_popescu: which ties in quite hysterically into the romanian expression "Fara numar"
mircea_popescu: which is very instructive, because it's gypsytalk for "a lot of money". which is the problem of being a gypsy : very good social, very poor maths, failure to thrive in the world.
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 16:44:11; mircea_popescu: Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?
mircea_popescu: TomServo you couldn't have missed it in the logs ? we want a bitcoin hosting corp.
TomServo: Say a guy had a nearly a racks worth a few generations old HP gear his workplace was going to get rid of.. and his own private stash of similiar era network gear.
TomServo: And could be inspired to seek out colo pricing.. would this be of interest as a starting point?
nubbins`: (for bonus lel, "related pictures" #2)
nubbins`: algorithm: "oh, here's a dude blowing a big hair-icicle. this works."
mircea_popescu: (literally that means "unbounded talent", but in that context talent would strictly denote a whore's talent, and it is only used ironically. so it's an apt caption for a teenager derping with a faux cock)
TomServo: mircea_popescu: I'd imagine being usian based would be a problem, tho?
TomServo: mircea_popescu: heh, I'm for it! I'm honestly trying consider it here... though I feel I might need a financial attorney to sort everything out given my locale.
nubbins`: if i forgot english i'd learn it again for cohen
mircea_popescu: TomServo colocation is a service, ship them to fucking malysia if you care.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: It's an option I suppose.. but I was thinking my hands of the hardware would be a big piece of what I'm selling.
mircea_popescu: i'm just saying, the need is there. as long as you clearly advertise what exactly you do and then stick to it exactly... it'll have custom.
TomServo: Well I'll ponder it some more and welcome any further feedback on the aging infrastructure being proposed and it's utility.
mircea_popescu: the one serious problem for you, or anyone else trying to do business in the us (say, cisco) is that sooner or later your government will try and rape you with those "secret legal proceedings" bs.
mircea_popescu: at that point, you'll be in the lavamail seat. either you become complicit with the criminals, or else you'll be prosecuted by the criminals.
mircea_popescu: (either side's claim as to the criminality of the other being unresolvable, since no rule of law, since "secret proceedings")
TomServo: Right, so doing this in the US is simply untenable - no?
mircea_popescu: but i guess you could do something like the traditional "We have received no unmentionable paperwork from local band of criminals" monthly announcement
TomServo: This being the 'warrant canary'?
jurov: TomServo: I want to do hosting too, but wanted a partner
trinque: "the government concedes that companies who have never received any kind of national-security request from the government and who are not bound by other nondisclosure provisions vis-à-vis the government may lawfully publish warrant canaries publicizing that fact."
trinque: so, better start with one, it seems
trinque: other relevant info worth reading there
TomServo: jurov: Thoughts on the discussion so far?
jurov: physical hw location does not matter to me, can be the best korea or whatever
jurov: and if you did not have the offer, i can shop around here
jurov: or perhaps having both us and eu right from the start would be best
mircea_popescu: but they use a shitty signature shceme and wtf, reference bitcoin block hashes already
mircea_popescu: jurov eu understood as slovakia is particularly useful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49437 @ 0.00027288 = 13.4904 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: yes, it may end up in czech rep or so
trinque: asciilifeform: any opposition to me adding a parameter for a few predefined architectures in auto.sh?
trinque: I've got it cross-compiling nicely from a gentoo host, currently munching through boost
mats: i wouldn't mind lending a hand if you're looking for help
trinque: ben_vulpes: "monkey humping a football" << couldn't be a more apt description of the process I used to get crossdev working with auto.sh
funkenstein_: i have used bitcoincloud.eu with no trouble yet
TomServo: jurov: what do you mean 'not have the offer'?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101500 @ 0.00027566 = 27.9795 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: you consider hosting because you got the gear offered, no?
TomServo: I'm interested in the prospect in general.. the hardware availablity just being a perk. I was curious if there was legitmate interest in this hardware specifically.
jurov: if it does not have features like iLO remote pwnkit, that is considered plus here
TomServo: heh of course.. unfortunately.. these have it.
mircea_popescu: jurov "HP iLO - The preferred IT administrator in every ProLiant server" you fudster you.
mircea_popescu: "HP iLO functions out-of-the-box without additional software installation regardless of the servers' state of operation giving you complete access to your server from any location via a web browser or the iLO Mobile App"
jurov: overall, being able to learn on cheap older stuff is nice to have
mircea_popescu: TomServo incidentally, they being your machines, you can take a hammer at parts.
mircea_popescu: "what's the most important tool in the arsenal of the security consultant ?"
trinque wonders what the fuck python headers have to do with boost
jurov: do you have USE=python set?
jurov: it may be the default
trinque: jurov: just running the auto.sh
trinque: probably lots to be snipped out of the boost config
trinque: probably better to snip boost
jurov: this was discussed
trinque: I am well aware, just marveling at what I see in my terminal
jurov: and conclusion was, that any bigger c++ project needs it (or poor reimplementation of it)
ascii_modem: nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense
ascii_modem: 0 price sensitivity below 10k << false for all common parts. try it
ascii_modem: but yeah for uniquely impoverished archs there is mmuless linux
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54376 @ 0.00027611 = 15.0138 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_modem: canary << mega-lol, apple killed their canary. who noticed, who remembers now ?
mircea_popescu: what, you think i don't like apple because of its hairdo ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51107 @ 0.00027137 = 13.8689 BTC [-] {3}
TomServo: ascii_modem | canary << was hoping this would be mentioned. So what is the value? zilch?
ben_vulpes: the honor of a few at the top. maybe. if they get out and come here.
ben_vulpes: for a btc host, not a bad idea. low cost.
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform set up enormous power saw << pics?
jurov: my mom was using "husqvarna"
mircea_popescu: When the results were analyzed by age group and nationality, ETS got a shock. It turns out, says a new report, that Millennials in the U.S. fall short when it comes to the skills employers want most: literacy (including the ability to follow simple instructions), practical math, and — hold on to your hat — a category called “problem-solving in technology-rich environments.”
mircea_popescu: "Not only do Gen Y Americans lag far behind their overseas peers by every measure, but they even score lower than other age groups of Americans."
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: coulda sworm you said "enormous"...
mircea_popescu: Altogether, the top U.S. Gen Yers, in the 90th percentile, “scored lower than their counterparts in 15 countries,” the report notes, “and only scored higher than their peers in Spain.”
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i was honestly wondering about its orientation and axes of articulation.
trinque: mircea_popescu: the simple instructions bit is as much mental illness as it is literacy
trinque: and that is largely due to terrible upbringing and terrible diet through formative years
trinque: current generation and below is probably irreparably fucked
trinque: dunno, does mountain dew *cause* gayness?
mircea_popescu: well... "gayness", the faux cultural homosexuality the us came up with to try and avoid facing the actual problem
mircea_popescu: anyway, human populations are not linear. the current twentysomething/late teens are completely discardable out of hand, like so much rag.
ben_vulpes: actual problems to cut their teeth on.
mircea_popescu: in any case, it's for the nine year olds we're even building all this wot bitcoin etc stack
mircea_popescu: but when 2025 rolls around and late 30s/early 40s dumb fat fucks inquire as to why we're fucking teenagers
mircea_popescu: the answer will be a uniform, resounding "because you're fucking stupid"
trinque: I'm trying to find a figure on the number of USAians on psychiatric meds
trinque: ...it's high, whatever it is
trinque: one thing I wait eagerly to see is when those run dry
trinque: asciilifeform: no, but of course all pollutants come to the party
mircea_popescu: What does that mean for U.S. employers hiring people born since 1980? Goodman notes that hiring managers shouldn’t overestimate the practical value of a four-year degree. True, U.S. Millennials with college credentials did score higher on the PIAAC than Americans with only a high school diploma (albeit less well than college grads in most other countries).
mircea_popescu: lmao! most expensive mit in the world. also only place in the world where mit grads can not use a battery to light a bulb.
mircea_popescu: trinque in general nature has well designed things : junkies in withdrawal are ineffectual.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion one even gets a choice in that matter is pernicious.
mircea_popescu: that way, the "willingness to do exam" is less divergent.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00028083 = 2.2466 BTC [+]
trinque: ahaha, asciilifeform is a bond villain
mircea_popescu: best kept secret by patriarchy : men actulaly like women.
nubbins`: <+ascii_modem> nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense <<< omg this is why i shop here!