assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.00028813 = 3.7889 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00029449 = 4.7266 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00029388 = 2.4392 BTC [-] {2}
williamdunne: natmonitor.com/2015/04/12/man-kills-himself-in-front-of-u-s-capitol-building-holding-tax-the-one-percent-sign/
williamdunne: " Lawmakers were not around at the time, as Congress was out of session on spring break. They are expected to reconvene on Monday. "
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00029449 = 2.3265 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00028813 = 3.6881 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00028813 = 3.2415 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00029019 = 4.0917 BTC [+]
felipelalli: hi! I have an idea. could you guys please tell me if this is a bad, more or less or good idea?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00029336 = 3.0803 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: i'll gladly shoot you down for the pleasure of it
ben_vulpes: jokes aside, "don't ask to ask, just ask"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00029449 = 3.1658 BTC [+]
felipelalli: ahahah thanks ben_vulpes ok, but I think it could be a "book", so I'll write on pastebin and then paste here.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: generally you'll want to have the thing queued up to fire *before* talking about it
trinque: asciilifeform: at the very least passing something like that legitimizes surveillance as a means to verify compliance with the escrow system
trinque: "well of course we have to watch the wire for terrorists using gpg!"
ben_vulpes: that's why *you're* supposed to be the one gasping on the brink
trinque: asciilifeform: some kind of implication that they're secure *now*?
felipelalli: ok, I'll try: I'd like to use OTC as a global "blacklist". But it is bad for that because a scammer won't create an account on OTC, or if his reputation is bad, he'll erase it. So we could create a "standard" like for example: br-8d255152 where "br" is the country code ISO and 8d255152 is the first 8 chars of SHA256 of user country document (in Brazil we call CPF and in Australia ID)
felipelalli: in this way, anyone could rate scammers and it would be useful for all services like exchanges and everything.
☟︎ mats: bad. the friction exists in developing the identity, not burning it.
felipelalli: asciilifeform: why this requires cooperation? could you give an example?
trinque: asciilifeform | 3) was to be the massive uptake by miscreant chumps << of the bunk crypto?
trinque: how would they pull off "crypto == terrorists" if no one understands the first term
ben_vulpes: provincia pagos sent my reciprocity fee system password in plaintext again
☟︎ trinque: not even multiple choice I wager... the barbarians!
williamdunne: felipelalli: I don't think your idea is that bad, but it would need to be more decentralized and based on WoT. For example asciilifeform might meet you in person and vouch that you are whom you say you are, and that your identity number is: 31231610
williamdunne: felipelalli: Its not all that new though, some other people working on something similarish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00029449 = 2.8566 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: snowden could have been 'legitimate' and all of what you listed would also follow
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:04:53; asciilifeform: algo went as follows: 1) snowden releases (whether one believes they were controlled or spontaneous does not matter for this recipe)
felipelalli: asciilifeform: thank you, good point, but it could be offset with the WoT where the ability to analyze a real document would be taken into account. williamdunne thank you! Nice to hear that! I was thinking about it for days! Do you know who are working on similar standard?
☟︎ williamdunne: decimation: his point was that they're creating the illusion of security through colourful iphones
trinque: asciilifeform: they're going to need a big false flag
williamdunne: felipelalli: read the issue section about making sure each person has but one identity
williamdunne: felipelalli: Not sure if its a good idea or not at this point, but interesting to think about. Very hard to prove we are the sole instance of ourselves
☟︎ decimation: in the case of apple, I think it's quite likely they are honestly trying to make things secure, but are about as successful as all other 'tech' firms have been
decimation: compromised as they are by conflicting interests to sell their customers
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what about crypto-signed documents?
trinque: decimation: I doubt US intelligence has zero assets inside apple
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: key newed up on airgapped legacy machine
felipelalli: I know it is not perfect, but it could be useful in some situations. The point is just create that standard.
decimation: asciilifeform: note that zimmerman is largely trading on his rep 'earned' during the 'crypto wars'
☟︎ ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> felipelalli: someone who is not a usg agent has no ability whatsoever to verify the legitimacy of any document but that of the most laughable fake << asciilifeform re
felipelalli: and then "follow the WoT". If MtGox for example rates my "mirror user" br-8d255152 or "U.S. gov" rates that, no one trust them anyway.
trinque: asciilifeform: force ISPs to drop traffic not using a sanctioned key?
ben_vulpes: i speak of an ascii blob i receive over whatever channel - is this not a document?
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: so, supose you are a usg agent and everybody knows your ability, you rate 10 the user br-8d255152, even if that user had 20x -10, I'd trust in your rate. The point is just the standard. The WoT serves as a natural filter.
felipelalli: i did not mean "usg agent", replace that by "specialist in documents"
trinque: felipelalli: what's wrong with gpg key as identity?
trinque: asciilifeform: hard to grasp how incorrectly one's been taught
trinque: say a fool staggers in and he wants to learn; where to even begin?
trinque: meaning no offense to felipelalli, he seems to not realize that his reverence for said govt official who names and numbers the people is a mystical belief
felipelalli: trinque: I do not believe in any gov official. I am voluntaryist.
felipelalli: trinque: the "doc number" is just a way to identify a user globally, but could be another thing.
trinque: felipelalli: an observation about myself: cleaning out a headfull of shit takes time.
felipelalli: trinque: a "mirror derivated user" like br-8d255152 (deriveted from my doc) would be useful only as "INPUT". There is no output from br-8d255152. This is useful for make a blacklist of scammers that don't use OTC. It could be derivated from my full name, for example: "Felipe Micaroni Lalli"= br-89402f8d
trinque: felipelalli: so then I lie about my name when I deal with you
trinque: or whatever inputs create that identity hash thing
felipelalli: trinque: yes, this is the fail asciilifeformci rises with reason.
trinque: ^ what I put as the headful of shit
trinque: not easy to clean; going to need the powerful stuff
felipelalli: asciilifeform: ahaha no, that is not the point. Maybe you didn't understand my initial motivation for that.
felipelalli: asciilifeform: you didn't understand because I didn't say.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I think he is really just looking for a way to make sure that each person only carries one identity, and the best way he can think of is a passport
felipelalli: the only flaw in this idea is that there is no reliable way to identify someone only. I understand that. But if there were, could be very useful to create blacklists. Especially in Brazil where there are many scammers that exposes all of your personal life, and we know their real names, their documents etc.
trinque: felipelalli: the tool to apply is a WoT, but you can't force people to identify only once
williamdunne: It should be possible to make it more expensive to do so
felipelalli: can be impossible, indeed. I didn't mature the idea. Maybe it is true: it could be impossible.
trinque: it's akin to hoping no one ever lies again
trinque: the incentive to use one identity is that your cred builds upon that name
trinque: also should people find you using many alternate IDs, they can negrate all of them knowing this
trinque: it's social behavior that shouldn't be policed centrally.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: hence my idea of doing in person verifications with people vouching for who you are
trinque: williamdunne: who verifies?
decimation: note that historically passports were used to keep people from leaving
williamdunne: Who verifies the WoT? You just ignore those you don't trust
trinque: what's the point of the ID verification aside from gpg and the wot?
trinque: your connections on the wot and your ratings, and your pubkey *are* you
williamdunne: trinque: The idea is that people can do reputation exit-scams because they can just move on to new idents
williamdunne: I'm not saying its a good idea, I just think its interesting as an idea
☟︎ trinque: and as they are found out they are buried in negrate
trinque: maybe someday you must maintain over a certain rating to deal in certain spheres of influence
☟︎ trinque: there are societal benefits to maintaining good rating
trinque: I mean... this is no different than life
felipelalli: asciilifeform: I am convinced the idea is broken at the point where you can not identify someone accurately. This could easily lead to injustice. But I will try more mature the idea. williamdunne raises a good point: if you follow the WoT, maybe someone is "good" or "trustful" to identify others.
trinque: the wot just makes it quantified
trinque: if I take a big shit in every business deal I'm ever a part of, I'll either outsmart everyone and win, or the shit's going to catch up to me
trinque: neither wots, cops or gods can prevent the former, and the latter's easier to do with a WoT
decimation: what's a jury trial other than having your wot judge your actions?
☟︎ williamdunne: A group of people you don't know without the full information deciding whether or not to lock you in a cage?
felipelalli: decimation: I said injustice in the meaning of someone uses a fake ID to blacklist someone unduly, just that.
decimation: felipelalli: that's a fact for a jury to decide upon
felipelalli: well, thanks asciilifeform trinque decimation and williamdunne - I have to go take my wife, bye!
trinque: felipelalli: have a nice eve
decimation: williamdunne: exactly, presumably the point of the jury was that they were able to judge the credibility of the witnesses because they knew them
decimation: nope. as the magna carta says: "For a trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood. In the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a husbandman the implements of his husbandry, if they fall upon the mercy of a royal court. None of these fines shall be imposed except by the
decimation: assessment on oath of reputable men of the neighbourhood."
trinque: makes me think of assembling someone's L1 to judge him someday
trinque: decimation: now they deprive you of your livelihood before you ever reach the courthouse
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00029457 = 4.7426 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15942 @ 0.00029732 = 4.7399 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9908 @ 0.00030098 = 2.9821 BTC [+]
williamdunne: But they don't just deprive you of your livelihood, they also strip you of your reputation and in many cases remove your ability to defend it.
decimation: and then they steal your "you were stole from"
felipelalli: asciilifeform: in the car I was thinking about a solution and I think I found it: what if the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00028949 = 7.5846 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: felipelalli: the WoT *is* the social network
felipelalli: trinque: I know that. I am trying to convince the Brazilian community move to here, but it is being hard. The main community is still on Facebook.
☟︎ mats: interfacing the real WoT with some federated, poorly implemented imitation is a recipe for disaster
mats: the br community doesn't deserve or want to be here, so don't bother
felipelalli: but it would be at least funny. I'd rate the president of Brazil, the "mirror" user "twitter-dilmabr" as -10 as "scammer!" for example.
decimation: felipelalli: understand that the 'us community' doesn't 'move to here' either
felipelalli: decimation: you're right. But would be so cool and useful if I really could use WoT to things in day to day and not only in dreams.
☟︎ trinque: that world may never have everyone in the WoT
felipelalli: trinque: not everyone, but at least the important people to me.
decimation: you just haven't formalized it with crypto
felipelalli: decimation: yes, but no ones really knows me personally.
☟︎ trinque: felipelalli: if you want to say something about your president, put it in the deedbot
trinque: the point when saying something about a person of obvious identity is identifying the *author*, not him
trinque: everybody can easily find out who you mean
trinque: asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for the majority of the time I first spent here
felipelalli: trinque: it's true! deedbot solves the blacklist problem, I think.
williamdunne: trinque: I was mindfucked for the past 12 months or so, but I didn't dive in and read blogs etc first
trinque: felipelalli: "this guy that uses these handles scammed me; here's the transaction on the blockchain, blah blah"
trinque: with some old laptops and cans of beans
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00028813 = 7.3185 BTC [-]
trinque: asciilifeform: sure to be unpestered there, until the graveyard is paved
decimation: were the criminals unknown to the victims?
trinque: I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone here that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00028733 = 5.488 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: ultimately the answer is: don't live where the democratic police are in power
trinque: I think it's essential to know how to operate weapons no matter who is in power
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00030098 = 1.1588 BTC [+]
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I saw you tear the Entropy apart a-while-back, did they fix your main concerns?
williamdunne: Oh sure, I'm definitely looking forward to your product - but also like paper wallets
ben_vulpes: <trinque> asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for the majority of the time I first spent here << heh i remember this
decimation: asciilifeform: well I would give the cop credit, at least he knocked on door and said something
decimation: asciilifeform: one problem with renting is that it is difficult to modify the house for security systems
ben_vulpes: chetty: can i get a favor from you in exchange?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty i'd be much obliged if you could procure me a phone and a sim - the cheapest that makes and receives calls will be more than adequate
☟︎ ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty no obligation though, i'm still bringing your seaweed
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: confirmed for imaginationless except in regards to his own means of death
☟︎ ben_vulpes: surely not the self destruct under the boulder trap...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00030098 = 1.0233 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14496 @ 0.00029528 = 4.2804 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00029405 = 1.6761 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14460 @ 0.00030068 = 4.3478 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: which, if he's the mule of socialism, and of the braindamaged jewry extant after that most abysmal intellectual 'cleansing', i can sorta see it
pete_dushenski: 'jooz' having lost its former lustre in this case, however, and now being a synonym for idiotic equalitarians.
pete_dushenski: or mebbe it never did, at least not for the less refined desert tribes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00029405 = 3.8962 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00028693 = 3.3858 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20594 @ 0.00028765 = 5.9239 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00028693 = 7.0872 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00028696 = 3.0475 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00028693 = 6.7285 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9938 @ 0.00029283 = 2.9101 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00029283 = 2.3134 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00029386 = 3.6733 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9537 @ 0.00028693 = 2.7365 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8841 @ 0.00028693 = 2.5367 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24420 @ 0.00029502 = 7.2044 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9112 @ 0.00028693 = 2.6145 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00028693 = 4.347 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:00:37; asciilifeform:
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099925 << do i need to explain what the resurrection of 'key escrow' idiocy from '90s (clinton's! to go right along with the new clinton!) means from the meta-nsa school of thought? or is it already obvious to aficionados
mircea_popescu: "In this case, the U.S. Attorney, while castigating politicians in Albany for playing fast and loose with the ethical rules that govern their conduct, strayed so close to the edge of the rules governing his own conduct that Defendant Sheldon Silver has a non-frivolous argument that he fell over the edge to the Defendant’s prejudice."
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:06:27; asciilifeform: but for some odd reason (3) did not happen.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile : the people who are competent never cared what the usg was putting out, and have and use functional solutions that don't involve it.
mircea_popescu: the people who are incompetent also never cared what the usg was putting out, and have and use convenient solutions that mostly also don't involve it
mircea_popescu: usg went in the middle and lost, there being no middle. but this is funny, psychologically, because : all socialisms always live by fleecing the middle class. for all the verbiage, it's the "kulak" that supported the soviets, not the filthy rich capitalist dudes.
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that as the socialism progresses, the middle class dies out. because socialism is societal cancer, it just burns the fat and dies.
mircea_popescu: but, amusingly, no socialism to date, no matter it's (always on, anyway) claims to sophistication EVER realised that hte middle is finite.
mircea_popescu: "nobody on easter island realised that if we cut down all the trees on easter island there won't be anyting left, on easter island".
mircea_popescu: and yes, sucks for the remnant of teh middle class, obviously. which, i suppose, is a good summary of a large chunk of "what to do" discussions here.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:07:49; felipelalli: in this way, anyone could rate scammers and it would be useful for all services like exchanges and everything.
mircea_popescu: blockexplorer.com : ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.)
mircea_popescu: "Maximum concurrent requests for this endpoint reached. Please try again shortly."
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:11:38; asciilifeform: (do you know what it costs to advertise in every single car of the d.c. subway?)
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:12:24; ben_vulpes: provincia pagos sent my reciprocity fee system password in plaintext again
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:15:38; felipelalli: asciilifeform: thank you, good point, but it could be offset with the WoT where the ability to analyze a real document would be taken into account. williamdunne thank you! Nice to hear that! I was thinking about it for days! Do you know who are working on similar standard?
mircea_popescu: conventions between you and X may matter, to you, to X, to people who know you, or X, or both.
mircea_popescu: declarations of pretenders to sovereignity like the brazilian government matter... to it. not to me.
mircea_popescu: it can make all the passports it wants, ima credit someone on the basis of that as much as i'd credit someone presenting a reader's digest letter.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:17:36; williamdunne: felipelalli: Not sure if its a good idea or not at this point, but interesting to think about. Very hard to prove we are the sole instance of ourselves
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:18:16; asciilifeform: as the 'ban' thing unfolds, honeypots like zimmerman's which specifically sell on the point of 'l337 d00dz against nsa' will either a) quietly fade away b) somehow continue in what they presently are, in spite of supposed 'bans'
williamdunne: While I understand the point you're trying to make, I don't think that was the answer he was looking for
mircea_popescu: he wasn't looking for any answer. he was trying to shoehorn disorganised remains of broken history into the future. as he keeps trying to do this he'll figure it out.
williamdunne: Sure, and I think he discovered that from the conversation
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's easy to maintain sole access over an identity, and pointless to discuss whether that is your only identity.
mircea_popescu: obviously it wouldn't be. if you're a waiter and you get married now you're a waiter and a husband. big whoop.
mircea_popescu: the idea that you even care about "alt identities" is pure totalitarianism, about on the level of a "forum mod" trying to "enforce forum rules" with "bans". rank nonsense. the way it goes is the other way : only let people in that have a business in.
mircea_popescu: the insanity of the aol internet turned all sense on its head.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:20:06; decimation: asciilifeform: note that zimmerman is largely trading on his rep 'earned' during the 'crypto wars'
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:25:49; asciilifeform: sadly, i suspect that even a thousand threads like this one will not suffice in hammering the point home to the thickest
mircea_popescu: then i'd throw up, likely, because fucking hell now i have to reconsider the "no universal human quality" pillar of thought.
mircea_popescu: i want to reconsider that about as much as windows user wants to compile from source.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100378 << morally neutral god of all knowledge ? interesting, incidentally, that the price the various jewish groups (including xtians) had to pay for the "church-state" frankenstein was overloading the correct notion of god with the notion of a "correct" god. only once god knew all AND GAVE A SHIT ABOUT THE KING'S WILL was there to be mandatory churchgoing and burning of
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:33:44; asciilifeform: felipelalli: one not-inaccurate way to think about 'cipherpunkian' systems such as bitcoin or wot is as attempts to emulate a kind of incorruptible god
gribble: Current Blocks: 352078 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 721 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48453653786.5 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.0077
mircea_popescu: i see subsets of dozens of otherwise well connected nodes not knowing of txn back and forth
mircea_popescu: actually, it seems to be resolving. that was a very spooky 5 minutes up there.
mircea_popescu: " Especially in Brazil where there are many scammers that exposes all of your personal life, and we know their real names, their documents etc." << aaaand this isn't indication that it really doesn't work ?
mircea_popescu: i mean i get it, this has become the surogate closure for the internet horde, "o no, here is his real name". mmmkay...
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:45:01; williamdunne: I'm not saying its a good idea, I just think its interesting as an idea
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:45:36; trinque: maybe someday you must maintain over a certain rating to deal in certain spheres of influence
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:46:21; asciilifeform: in much the same way, you cannot extract trustworthiness from the aether
mircea_popescu: in fact, the ability of a user to create pseudo-trust out of nothing, just like the "ability" of a perpetuum mobile to extract energy out of the void, just like the "ability" of a government to print money are the same thing, really : the degrading macula of subhumanity.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:48:26; decimation: what's a jury trial other than having your wot judge your actions?
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100440 << amusingly enough in japan jury trials were (and perhaps still to some degree are) very dimly regarded. people thought that someone willing to cast his fortune on the disinterested call of a dozen uninformed people rather than have a specialist handle it could not possibly have any sort of case.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:49:23; decimation: some distant bureaucrat?
mircea_popescu: "the only reason you want the jury is because you hope to trick it with things a judge wouldn't fall for."
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:57:55; asciilifeform: medieval juries also did not concern themselves with day-to-day idiocies.
chetty: one of the good reasons for jury hasn't really been used ...nullification of bad law
mircea_popescu: actually the only useful function of a jury these days.
mircea_popescu: but see, the same people who can't be bothered to crypto anything... can't be bothered to nullify anything either. too much work.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, imagine how the place looked after ows was done with it ? all the discarded packaging etc ? this was supposedly a group of civically-minded folks.
mircea_popescu: "tax the rich so you can clean up the mess we made! of this sidewalk and of our lives!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00030098 = 3.0399 BTC [+]
williamdunne: not to mention that the jury almost always considers law over morality
williamdunne: It would be tragic if they had to do some thinking
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:26:21; felipelalli: ok, forget it.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne yes, it would be. it'd make it possible to be wrong, and then guilty. which is the main reason the law as a construct even exists : save people that.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:29:48; felipelalli: trinque: I know that. I am trying to convince the Brazilian community move to here, but it is being hard. The main community is still on Facebook.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:37:34; felipelalli: decimation: you're right. But would be so cool and useful if I really could use WoT to things in day to day and not only in dreams.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:38:54; felipelalli: decimation: yes, but no ones really knows me personally.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:39:56; asciilifeform: methinks felipelalli is expressing the traditional frustration of the 3 to 6 month n00b to #b-a:
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:41:48; asciilifeform: (if you want to be considered, my understanding is - be young and female)
mircea_popescu: i am simply not interested in that sort of centralisation. i also think it's stupid, and self-defeating, and in no way different from you know, making gossipd on windows vista.
mircea_popescu: yes, i may consider young females for education, but that is neither here nor there. i did that before bitcoin, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: since mats brought it up : yeah, currently people can't audit bitbet's reserves. this is unfortunate, but i'm not going to do anything about it.
mircea_popescu: auditing in bitcoin works like it works - sorta halfway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00029027 = 3.3526 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2015#1100530 << on which line, trinque you'd seriously shoot a burglar ? and i don't mean shoot them in the head, just, one to the kneecap for good measure. seems to me woefully excessive. the... only time i was in a situation of that nature the dudes beat the shit out of the guy and i thought it was excessive even for the time and place.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 03:54:56; asciilifeform: trinque: we have (for the most part) burglars here, rather than robbers. they wait until owner is out.
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 04:06:20; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell chetty i'd be much obliged if you could procure me a phone and a sim - the cheapest that makes and receives calls will be more than adequate
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 04:08:26; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: confirmed for imaginationless except in regards to his own means of death
mircea_popescu: alf : he just wants to hook up with local whores from the convenience of his own home. internets ftw!
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 05:24:05; pete_dushenski: no more does the term mean 'cultured' or 'worldly' it seems
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.0002912 = 6.7122 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00029426 = 2.5601 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7698 @ 0.00030098 = 2.3169 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00030098 = 1.6704 BTC [+]
mats: 6:50:29 <+mircea_popescu> since mats brought it up : yeah, currently people can't audit bitbet's reserves. this is unfortunate, but i'm not going to do anything about it. << i was going a bit crazy auditing the code, thought id bungled it somehow
mircea_popescu: nah you're fine, kako verified it. from what can be seen publicly bitbet is short like 400 btc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9164 @ 0.00028733 = 2.6331 BTC [-]
nubbins`: asciilifeform:mentioned that 'computers were stolen, no sign of break-in, perhaps insider' <<< alf, the lizards struck the wrong house! did you replace your locks?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu:i want to reconsider that about as much as windows user wants to compile from source. <<< i recall hearty lels when whatever chunk of windows source code came out
nubbins`: there was one comment in the code for notepad.exe: /* is this even supposed to be here? */
nubbins`: 30 years in the wild and the source code says "should this bit be here?"
nubbins`: mircea_popescu:he wasn't looking for any answer. he was trying to shoehorn disorganised remains of broken history into the future. as he keeps trying to do this he'll figure it out. <<< "you can't bribe the future with nostalgia"
nubbins`: <felipelalli> (general lels) <<< it's okay, you're still new
nubbins`: i clicked on that one so i could chuckle about why she's randomly holding a guitar
nubbins`: turns out i guess she can play it, but dat bio
nubbins`: i had to make sure i wasn't on womensguitarassociation.com
nubbins`: "Her latest projects consist of the creation of Tatiana Coin, the first ever artist cryptocurrency" WHAT ABOUT COINYE WEST?!
mircea_popescu: low level scamming, "i'ma call this empty jar MONEY and wait for idiots to deposit".
nubbins`: "i always carry an empty cup, just in case"
nubbins`: i came across this website while trying to figure out why Ploshay's appearance is somewhat unsettling to me
nubbins`: still not sure i can pinpoint it... but have you ever met someone for whom photographs exist outside of time and space?
nubbins`: like, they just got their knee kicked out by an angry horse, but if a lens swivelled their way, they'd muster up a winning smile?
mats: fwiw the MIT undergrad exhibit was horrible
mats: soo many flying machines reliant on arduinos and other garbage
mats: how did people make flying machines before hobbyist boards?! nobody knows.
mats: i didn't deny that there are showmen, or even hordes of them, there
mircea_popescu: o no wait it wasn't you, some other guy was making dire warnings about how teligent mit is
mircea_popescu: no wait, make a full sentence, i have no idea what you're saying.
adlai: not quite. mats, familiar with "BEAM" robotics?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well in the abstract it is dificult to evaluate. what exactly would be the task fo this red army ?
adlai: "uses simple analogue circuits, such as comparators, instead of a microprocessor in order to produce an unusually simple design"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you appreciate how the task to defeat germany3 is quite different from what we're doing here ?
mircea_popescu: i personally can't quite see how i'd manage to motivate myself to participate in yet another "we good they bad fight for great justic!!1" conflict.
adlai: as stupid as possible, but no stupider
mircea_popescu: no but srsly, 4chan and the internets have blown what looks like a permanent hole in the sort of deffective mental processes that are required for "patriotism" or whatever the pink-bellied shit involved in wwX was.
adlai: oh, i'm pretty sure that trench chatter was blowing gaping holes in patriotism for longer than trenches have been cool
adlai: the trouble there is that you need to first have & enter trenches, for such chatter to happen
adlai: leading to boom-and-bust cycles of patriotism... clearly, we need to regulate statism.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im quite unconvinced of the latter. and the former reduces to... what exactly, "not everyone has the biography and talents of a computer user, windows plox" ?
adlai will be here all week
mircea_popescu: except we don't really participate in plankton whatever.
adlai: yet you'd disperse the red army? sure, disperse the offense, but how do you defend geography with individual saboteurs everywhere?
nubbins`: wait, so now you don't need cruise missiles or w/e?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's that azn fighting style where you don't particularly give a shit ?
adlai: well, there's defending the self, and there's defending increasingly expanded notions of "self", until it morphes into yet another "sovereign"
mircea_popescu: just wait patiently while oponent kicks himself against everything in sight ?
adlai: jiu-jitsu is actually quite interesting
adlai: it's focused on working against your opponent's anatomy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform REAL PROGRAMMERS DO NOT LISP LAWL YOUR ARGUMENTES INVLEAD!
nubbins`: (s.korean soldiers -- all of them -- have blackbelt in taekwondo. to what end?)
adlai: "These techniques were developed around the principle of using an attacker's energy against him, rather than directly opposing it."
mircea_popescu: i recall this point where some derpy agent swore before the court he used excel spreadsheets to rape a db
nubbins`: asciilifeform this is like saying kittens don't need to learn how to kill
nubbins`: because they're supplied externally by teat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can build all your factories you want once the idiot in the room (made out of a bunch of idiots glued to each other) is dead.
nubbins`: you don't always realize who you're glued to until the water gets above a certain level
nubbins`: asciilifeform if i can navigate the dark markets, so can you!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform moreovber, you know, resolving problems that are clearly past what you probably correctly call an event horizon is an exercise in derpitude.
adlai: water dissolves glue (at least, the cheap icky "white glue" stuff); ie, say asciilifeform is part of the glued idiot mass... as it begins to implode/dissolve/etc, folks find themselves increasingly less glued
nubbins`: twist: your across-the-street-neighbour did same
nubbins`: the cheap icky you're referring to is PVA
nubbins`: and i'd advance that water does not dissolve it
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:05:27; ascii_field: ^ most of it, in my particular case
nubbins`: the prize for "most interesting line of work about which we know almost nothing" goes to...
nubbins`: asciilifeform an honest take will require a bit of time, but if you've got the ears...
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:05:42; mircea_popescu: ascii_field so this would be in demand either a) by the nsa or else b) independent work a la s.nsa
mircea_popescu: there's a very simple heuristic to evaluate whether you're currently developing or whether you historically developped skills teh most serene republic has a need of.
mircea_popescu: this does not involve finding the officer of serenissima hr.
nubbins`: asciilifeform you won't get me to admit that learning things is a waste. so the facile reply is a flat-out no
mircea_popescu: it involves an answer to the very simple q : "can you do something with it ?"
mircea_popescu: if the answer's no, then you've got yourself a social study. if the answer's yes, more power to ya.
nubbins`: the slightly less saucy reply is that you didn't learn "to do x", you learned "how to learn"
nubbins`: which puts you (a) far ahead of most of the pack and (b) in a position to, y'know... walk away and start over whenever you like
adlai: the highest bidder's exit from the auction, for reasons ranging from death to bankruptcy, doesn't mean that others aren't waiting to take his place
mircea_popescu: yes, but the fictitious game of "may be" is by definition going to provide any anwer you seek.
adlai: if you're worried about getting killed because you know too much... that's your problem, for agreeing to hear too much
nubbins`: i'd also advance the opinion that one does not know quite how much one can change until one is forced to do so. while this may seem incredibly foolhardy (so much so that most people never try it), walking away with a zippo tossed over shoulder is the only way to find out.
nubbins`: my point is if you don't like riding in the clown car, get out and walk (again the lsd!)
nubbins`: so in august 2012, i was promoted from "programmer/analyst" to "senior programmer/analyst"
mircea_popescu: im starting to understand why religion is such a big deal. it's not that it makes any sense, it's that it provides answers to "fundamental questions of life"
adlai: "opiate of the masses" is not a diss
nubbins`: great stuff, top kek. 25% discount on my home and car insurance. $500/year "wellness benefit" for new running shoes. full health and dental.
nubbins`: this came with the "huge" salary of $61,000 per annum
nubbins`: precisely six months after this promotion, i tendered my resignation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the ancient discussion with TaT re women. "do you like her ? if not, get rid of her"
nubbins`: and opted for a job with an annual salary of (checking records...) about $6,000
mircea_popescu: the answer in his head, prolly, was "to be replaced with what"
mircea_popescu: cuz 598986907 years ago, hunter went into the forest, whereas woman only moved fat butt from current bush she plucked once someone found a new bush
adlai: nubbins` seems content to swim, or clutch driftwood, after taking the hatchet to his yacht
nubbins`: now, at this point, i'd like to take the opportunity to inquire as to what the general consensus is, among those present, regarding my intelligence, wisdom, and overall sensibility
nubbins`: adlai what can you do that i can't?
adlai: see your name highlighted when you type mine
nubbins`: paid-up? the bank owns this house, buddy
adlai: so your driftwood is tied to the megasteamer
adlai: watch out for icebergs and malfunctioning gps!
nubbins`: $190 death-pledge and i chose $6k/yr over $61k/yr
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> now, at this point, i'd like to take the opportunity to inquire as to what the general consensus is, among those present, regarding my intelligence, wisdom, and overall sensibility
adlai also holds Bias in high esteem
nubbins`: asciilifeform my greatest asset is my willingness to toss zippos over shoulders
nubbins`: certainly more valuable than w/e stacks of btc, w/e piles of printing equipment, w/e meatwot
mircea_popescu: nubbins` honestly i thought you were kinda dumb for the entire interval, but in a reserved sort of way.
nubbins`: you may be thinking of the time where i went on about how little money i need to make in order to get by
mircea_popescu: which then paid off when you went and fucked with installing pogoshits
mircea_popescu: which should explain why people don't particularly wanna say anything on the topic. how the hell does one even know ?
nubbins`: question was "how do i stop giving rimjob to the man"
nubbins`: i reply "take your tongue out of his ass" and people think i'm being all flippant.
mircea_popescu: so listen, i was once with like half a dozen teensy chicks by the side of a pool, and some were in the water and some were on the chairs.
mircea_popescu: and they had this conversation which went on for a while.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` all about how and why would one go in the water, whether there's breathing, ample considerations.
nubbins`: let me guess, all the ones who jumped in the pool drowned?
mircea_popescu: hey, i used to write great novels, but then i got promoted and now im doing 6 teasy metaphores an hour!
mircea_popescu: no dude. they kept talking indefinitely. it's a way to pass the time.
nubbins`: actually unable to tell if that's a srs question.
adlai: actually unable to tell if anybody here understands latin anymore
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski being persuasive is like being tasteful. not a property of the painting.
nubbins`: "The need to assemble is as constant among humans as the necessity of making decisions is rare. Assembling corresponds to the joy of feeling a common power. Decisions are vital only in emergency situations, where the exercise of democracy is already compromised. The rest of the time, “the democratic character of decision making” is only a problem for the fanatics of process. It’s not a matter of critiquing assemblies or abandoning them,
nubbins`: but of liberating the speech, gestures, and interplay of beings that take place within them. We just have to see that each person comes to an assembly not only with a point of view or a motion, but with desires, attachments, capacities, forces, sadnesses and a certain disposition toward others, an openness. If we manage to set aside the fantasy of the General Assembly and replace it with an assembly of presences, if we manage to foil the
nubbins`: constantly renewed temptation of hegemony, if we stop making the decision our final aim, then there is a chance for a kind of massification, one of those moments of collective crystallization where a decision suddenly takes hold of beings, completely or only in part."
adlai: well it's more towards nubbins` who seems to have trouble getting across what was said quite aptly millenia ago
nubbins`: adlai break it down into one-syllable words for dumb ol' me.
adlai: "all my shit be in my head"
adlai: but srsly, read the links. it's a one paragraph story
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski if someone's ready to i dunno, buy a new car, then he has specific questions which a forum might answer, and he's buying cart with our without forum. so forum didn't DO anything.
mircea_popescu: if dude's not ready to buy nw car, he may talk of whatever with whoever, still no car. so forum didn';t DO anything.
mircea_popescu: which is just another way of saying that "talking about bitcoin doesn't make you part of bitcoin"
pete_dushenski: but nor are forums the only, well, forum for discussion
nubbins`: adlai if all your goods that matter aren't with you, when you stand naked and alone, then you're in a pretty bad way.
mircea_popescu: which is important because "being in bitcoin country" does not anymore "make you bitcoiner
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this channel could be considered a forum
adlai: sure, and log.b-a can be considered a tapestry of threads
nubbins`: "If we manage to set aside the fantasy of the General Assembly and replace it with an assembly of presences, if we manage to foil the constantly renewed temptation of hegemony, if we stop making the decision our final aim, then there is a chance for a kind of massification, one of those moments of collective crystallization where a decision suddenly takes hold of beings, completely or only in part."
nubbins`: one day, in the distant future, i'll say something to alf and it'll make all what i have previously said fall into place
nubbins`: "discussion" doesn't lead to action, it leads to puzzle pieces being shuffled around in your head
adlai thinks the issue at hand relates more to basic axioms arising from one's own life, rather than words
nubbins`: this can be useful or useless, depending on the situation, the person...
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: how not ? how many pogo purchases and gnupg downloads have resulted from time spent here ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` to the degree that one's action is prevented by organised debris in his head, then this process may clear a path he can finally act upon
mircea_popescu: but i still think it's at best wrong to imagine "the discussion did it"
adlai: nubbins`: well you can have all the right puzzle pieces on the table, yet not see the picture
nubbins`: put another way, nothing i say will make alf walk away
nubbins`: but perhaps things i say will clear his mental path a bit more
nubbins`: the only thing that'll make alf walk away is alf
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: perhaps i'm ascribing too much causation to correlations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00028902 = 2.3411 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i owe the bank $190,000 and i made $6,000 in 2013
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i mean they also happened in daytime, you know, cause the shops are closed at night. so daytime causes it ? meh.
nubbins`: and i spend my days not holding my nose to the grindstone, but dicking around on irc and puttering in my basement
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: ya how does that actually work financially ?
nubbins`: and i sleep the sleep of the just.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski he sells used chicken fingers to make up the diff.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski how it works is that you realize what you need and don't need to get by
adlai: not all of us need mercedeses!
nubbins`: if you have 25 pairs of red shoes and nowhere to put them, maybe a shoe rack isn't the right answer?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i pay off about $5k principal and $9k interest per annum
nubbins`: 5-year term's up next summer so i'll prolly pop a couple tens of k down on the principal then
nubbins`: (as if there's a better man than me out there)
nubbins`: monthly mortgage payment is ~$1200
mircea_popescu: "oh i just pay 20k out of my 6k a year. problem ?!?!?!"
nubbins`: p and i, combined, contribute about $500/mo to keep this place going
nubbins`: but i'll note that this is a problem with alf, not with walking away
mircea_popescu: anyway, fwiw i suppose your situation is exactly typical of "the civilised world".
nubbins`: what, floating along without a care for tomorrow? :D
mircea_popescu: on average, if you average them, per capita debt about 1k, per capita income about 5k, hopefully there isn't a fire.
nubbins`: you guys don't have fire insurance in b-a?
adlai also wonders wo what degree nubbins` has "gone galt", perhaps without being consciously aware of the concept
mircea_popescu: not everything's insurable nubbins`. specifically : insurance works for individuals. i was discussing the country/western world.
nubbins`: adlai i gave up on atlas shrugged after several hundred pages because it was a piece of shit, indulge me will ya?
mircea_popescu: if there IS a fire, nobody can insure the whole shebang.
nubbins`: if there's a fire that big, house insurance will be the least of your worries
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's when you stop contributing to an idiotic community and just keep for yourself.
adlai: and includes reducing your quality of life, since you reach diminishing returns as you try to increase it
mircea_popescu: kinda how the soviets failed, people went "eh why bother, they gotta pay me anyway, and i don't make anything out of iteither way"
nubbins`: my quality of life has steadily increased since walking away
nubbins`: the only ones that matter, yep
mircea_popescu: "my own evaluation of variable x has changed as my measurement standards changed"
adlai: dropping meaningless metrics is the easiest way to increase quality of life
adlai is not using "meaningless" ironically, but... subjectively
nubbins`: mircea_popescu guess how much money i saved per year while making $61k
mircea_popescu: well in that manner, becoming a slave is the easiest way to increase quality of life.
adlai: or all animals being cared for by humans, outside of labs
nubbins`: what do i need money for? buy a volkswagen?
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: guessing that 61k is pre-tax, i'll guess 20k savings. i'm guessing you've got skill in this saving domain.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu so do i, but i also like not wanting to fucking kill myself every day
mircea_popescu: yes, but that's what he means by "theoretical physicist"
nubbins`: pete_dushenski closer to $0k per year
adlai: tangentially related: though increasing the font size of my console has reduced the number of characters on my screen, it has greatly increased my quality-of-reading
nubbins`: pete_dushenski implication being that all that extra money *almost* bought happiness
nubbins`: you know when i was an office-man, i'd struggle whether to get out of bed every. single. morning.
adlai: mircea_popescu: actually a control-typo triggered it, and i decided to learn from the happy accident :)
nubbins`: i once took a week's vacation because i couldn't be fucked to show up on a monday... or a tuesday
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know, just because your job sucked doesn't mean work sucks.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's all those sunrises that caused it !
nubbins`: mircea_popescu agreed. i still work (from time to time), and it doesn't suck at all
nubbins`: i wake up with a smile every day and go to bed w/ same
adlai: don't worry, the typo was only due to furious typing trying to keep up with the wordcount
nubbins`: not at all. the world's my oyster.
nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it
lobbes: nubbins', your example leaving your 61k job is validating my similar decision to eventually leave my new job for something less lucrative but more sane
lobbes: I thought I was crazy (maybe still am)
nubbins`: lobbes truly foolhardy is the man to whom i serve as an example
mircea_popescu: "this could not possibly be a dumb idea - look! others are doing it too!"
lobbes: well I don't plan to cling to driftwood
lobbes: just downshift a bit ;)
nubbins`: mircea_popescu are you talking about working in an office? 8)
nubbins`: lobbes even the stupidest ideas will find support on the interwebs
nubbins`: i'm serious: <+nubbins`> lobbes truly foolhardy is the man to whom i serve as an example
mircea_popescu: kinda why the interwebs are so popular with "the people"
lobbes: again, I'm not talking $61 to $6 here, rather 85 to maybe 58
lobbes: so perhaps not the same at all
mircea_popescu: lobbes you're not being personally criticized yo. you don't like it, get rid of it.
lobbes: well, I wouldn't be offended if I was being criticized. Rather, that's why I like it here
nubbins`: trappings of happiness vs happiness
nubbins`: "but with 61k/yr i can buy all these trappings!"
nubbins`: maybe at conference XIII you, me and alf can compare grey hairs
nubbins`: my body is a patchwork, beard happens to be reddish
nubbins`: who needs $61k with a body like this?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well there's some fiat aspect to your income that's reported, no ?
mircea_popescu: according to argentinian head, 200k barely buys you a cramped 500sqft apt.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski in like 5 jurisdictions by various people who know their job.
nubbins`: i got four floors of house for not much more than that
nubbins`: in the20yearslumland, i could prolly buy a city block for that
mats: hmm... Egyptian state planners have a grandiose infrastructure plan to spend $43bn on power generation, $21bn on upstream oil and gas, and $45bn on a new capital
nubbins`: someone does, otherwise this house'd cost $30k and the slum in ohio'd cost $220
nubbins`: mats those are some big imaginary numbers
adlai: well the point of "going galt" is tax optimization through productivity reduction rather than fund-shuffling
nubbins`: i'm much more productive than i was while working an office job.
adlai: productivity as measured by the collector
nubbins`: ("but nubs, you sit around on irc all day" ...think about that)
nubbins`: adlai so salary is the word, then?
nubbins`: 'cause you don't get taxed based on how hard you work up here in canada.
adlai: aiui, which is only from the internet as i don't physically live in libertardia, this meme was mainly coined by/for business owners reducing their business's "salary"
nubbins`: sounds like a fucking wank fest
adlai: ie, "my company could sell $300k on the open market, but then it would be in a higher corporate tax bracket, so we'll only sell $200k of widgets"
nubbins`: i didn't quit 9-5 because i wanted to stick it to the tax man. i quit it because it sucked and it was killing me.
adlai: then the market price for widgets rises due to lack of supply, and company finds itself with sales totalling $251k
adlai: mentsh trakht, market lakht
nubbins`: but hey, the thing that sucks and kills you *does* give you the money to buy toys
nubbins`: maybe once you get enough toys it'll be a fair trade.
mircea_popescu: adlai i always understood it as the much more subtle "well im on the football team now, why hassle to score goals. hassle to prevent anyone from scoring more than me".
adlai: mircea_popescu: no, that's the goal-withholding attack!
nubbins`: didn't the galt idiots blow up some train tracks or smth?
nubbins` blocked most of what he read from memory
nubbins`: on account of it being such a piece of shit
adlai hasn't actually read the book, didn't even crack the cover
adlai: anthem is precisely the correct dose of ayn rand for a healthy brain
adlai: finishable in one shitting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20953 @ 0.00029681 = 6.2191 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: almost certainly will not read
mats is busy working through "The Misbehavior of Markets"
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00030211 = 3.58 BTC [+]
adlai: "A Fractal View of Financial Turbulence"?
mats: "A Fractal View of Risk, Ruin, and Reward"
adlai: yeah dunno why amazon choose to reword that
adlai: mats: thank you for the link, the author may be one of the only people (other than personified Failure) able to dissuade me
adlai: "Thus, reading this volume will not make you rich. But it will make you wiser—and may thereby save you from getting poorer.
mats: its nice to be thanked for stuff i didn't do
fluffypony: so I'm going to the Bitcoin Africa conference on Thursday
assbot: Door tix @ Bitcoin Africa conference: "only cash will be accepted". Bitcoin...you're doing it wrong! /hashtag/BitcoinAfrica15?src=hash
http://t.co/G66vzo8Etz mats: why would you soil yourself by association with the likely demographic of con-goers?
fluffypony: mats: because it's the first one in ZA, I'm going to be in Cape Town anyway, and Micah Winkelspecht is talking
fluffypony: who I hope will at least be a little interesting
mats: not sure how i feel about hardware security modules and wallets
mats: especially FIPS* anything
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: definitely afterwards, don't have enough to say about it now
fluffypony: except that it looks like they're retarded
nubbins`: i'm always suspicious when Canada Post sends me an "item delivered" email and the mailbox is empty
nubbins`: too bad it's the kinda dumb guy buying all these, huh ;/
pete_dushenski now wondering from whence mircea_popescu derives fiat profit in 5 jurisdictions to keep tax lawyers and accountants busy
nubbins`: mandelbrot et al did much to form my perceptions of the world
nubbins`: pete_dushenski inorite? sold as "used", guessing they're either (a) returns or (b) just damaged packaging and unsuitable for shelf
pete_dushenski: benoit's definitely in the taleb vein, or perhaps vice versa
nubbins`: shame i don't have time to play with these pogos til next week
nubbins`: itching to throw that static bitcoind build onto one w/ an ssd
pete_dushenski: in taleb's books, he often refers to his long, slow walks with mandelbrot, and how the old man is the only one who will walk slowly enough to properly meditate with
nubbins`: rozal that was the most inept display of cloaking i've ever seen
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: oh you're busy nao ? what happened to mr. man of leisure of twodogslandia ?
nubbins`: he's taking a four-day vacation out of the country.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00030213 = 1.2085 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: longer trips don't suffice for the man of leisure
nubbins`: (protip: get yourself a flight rewards credit card /before/ you quit your office job. they only check your annual salary when you first sign up)
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: how is it that longer trips don't suffice ? suffice for what ?
nubbins`: pete_dushenski you traveled much?
nubbins`: what sorta travel, mostly resorts or "real"?
nubbins`: everyone who travels has a point at which they become tired. for some, this is 6mos. for others, 1mo.
pete_dushenski: but if you can make it past "tired" there's always more to explore and experience
nubbins`: i made it several months into "tired" before i abandoned s.k.
pete_dushenski: so sure, i get tired, but it doesn't send me home, just makes me want to be productive while i'm away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00029421 = 6.4579 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: anyway, this trip is more of an indulgence than most
nubbins`: i usually aim for at least a week or two
pete_dushenski: there are always logs to read, travel stories to share on contravex, emails to send.
nubbins`: but... print shops are busy in the summer, so if i wanna go somewhere, it's best to go in the spring... and it turns out three of my favourite musical acts were playing back-to-back nights in cleveland
nubbins`: pete_dushenski i bring a smartphone instead of a laptop precisely to limit my tech usage
nubbins`: which btw i pronounce "usagi" in my head occasionally, thanks bitcoin!
pete_dushenski: i'm pretty sure smartphones increase 'tech usage' while decreasing productivity
nubbins`: pete_dushenski not if you keep it on silent and in your pocket, instead of obsessively "checking" it.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski sounds like we use different methods to achieve same result
nubbins`: i am, however, seeing Lightning Bolt, Sufjan Stevens, and METZ
pete_dushenski: but i'm not as cultured and worldly as i think i am. just a soap opera star!
ascii_field: nubbins`: but i'll note that this is a problem with alf, not with walking away << i've noticed that even you have exhausted your patience with the bipedal rabid dog in your home...
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i guess ascii_field has telecom reviving AND self-upping magical powers
ascii_field: whereas i have zero patience with the very concept of having the very smell of a rabid dog in my home.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ok, but you know... kinda hard to herd a herd if you're so olfactorily intolerant
mircea_popescu: well what do you want to, spherical chicken in vacuum ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8601 @ 0.0002875 = 2.4728 BTC [-]
ascii_field: as does every goatfuckistan still extant on planet 3
mircea_popescu: still, "hard to herd a herd"... you heard it here first
ascii_field: nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it << what did you buy and play with instead? a nagant, testing how it feels in the mouth, as in mircea_popescu's 'dulap' story ?
adlai: fwiw, according to diamod, sleeping in barns (or herding in the home) is the only reason we're not all dead of smallpox
ascii_field: adlai: by this logic, eating raw bear meat is the only reason 'we' aren't all dead of starvation, etc.
adlai: smallpox faded to obscurity long before we learned how to wage proper interkingdom war
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i am told that i did, but methinks it was a fraud
mircea_popescu: kinda gamey, like a pig that grew up thinking it's pheasant ?
ascii_field was convinced that his 'bear' had a snout, ate from a trough
adlai: in the idf, if bread sits on the shelf next to canned spam for long enough...
ascii_field: omnivores 'are what they eat' newsateleven
adlai: long pig, short pig, red pig, blue pig?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00028733 = 1.6809 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: adlai: now why would spam be in the idf in the first place ?
adlai: "Also, a kosher variant of Spam, known as Loof (Hebrew: לוף, a Hebrew linguistic play on meatloaf), was produced by Richard Levi, and mostly used as part of field rations by the Israel Defense Forces."
adlai: "and was finally removed from rations when production ceased in 2009." LOL
adlai: these things keep forever
adlai: removed from rations... now that's my laugh for the day
adlai: oh but it officially is removed from rations
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's the lack of cud chewing, not the hooves that makes pigs unkosher
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i srsly do not see ANY merit to this "location" bs << one of us is carrying suitcase of $gadgets to the other. that's -location-, l0l.
mod6: funkenstein_: thanks for the info.
pete_dushenski: i recently learned that ostrich and 'hares' (presumably rabbits too?) are also not kosher
ascii_field: 'Going Galt' << somehow everybody forgets that the character in the book had a fucking -invisibility machine- hiding his fort
adlai: in basic training, when random MREs had loof, the sergeant gave us this big lecture about how it'd been "removed from the war-waging bible" (literal translation), and we'd probably never see it again
ascii_field: 'galt' without the cloaking device is like superman without the cape
adlai: the cape gave superman his power!?
adlai: maybe samson without the dreads
mircea_popescu: incidentally... i find it kinda lulzy that arabs etc don't go all bear. but...
adlai: kosher laws are such a messy patchwork of whitelists and blacklists
Chillum: It would be like aquaman without... wait what does he have?
adlai: like satoshi without MSVC
pete_dushenski: adlai: "must refrain from random things to hone your discipline" isn't the worst approach in the world
adlai: pete_dushenski: what?
ascii_field: nubbins`: maybe once you get enough toys it'll be a fair trade << all the toys i buy put together are dwarfed by the cost of living like a human being (e.g., not having rabid hyenas in my home, nor within 100 metres, etc.)
adlai is being told to stop dicking around on IRC?
ascii_field: and this ^ is not a toy, it is as essential as clothes to me.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field 100 metres is tough. within 100 metres of me there's like 3 different theatres.
ascii_field: and enduring hyenas by choice, because you're into keeping zoo, or culturing fleas, etc. is rather different from financially forcible tour of duty in hyena cage
mircea_popescu: they get together and squeal, it's fucking incredible. that particular 16 yo "pls fuck me" unconscious thing.
ascii_field: adlai:anthem is precisely the correct dose of ayn rand for a healthy brain << i will admit to having read pretty much all of rand
adlai: and how accurate is my perscription?
mircea_popescu: you read pretty much all of apparently every idiot available
ascii_field: (short version: dedicated zoologist? yes, read. no? don't)
ascii_field: ^ somebody cache this before censored entirely?
ascii_field: (naggum's is the part on the annoying black background colour)
adlai: it's not in xach's thingy?
ascii_field: <mircea_popescu> and YET you protest the hyena << so i had a quiet and physically clean upbringing. this is who i am. i get that it gives me a short life expectancy, yes. but jumping from cliffs doesn't grow wings, no.
mircea_popescu: just observing that the writing it produces doesn't seem to bother as much ? how come ?
ascii_field: because can be zoologist to text on a screen
ascii_field: e.g., why did hanbot work well as a forum demolitions expert, but isn't (afaik!) a soldier in meatspace ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but to answer question, my meatspace idiocy filter is simply not as strong as the conceptual one. to ask 'why' is like asking why my legs are not as long as mircea_popescu's
adlai: pete_dushenski: why does the
http response never terminate? it's a .txt...
ascii_field: i.e., the question may well have a biological answer, but knowing it does me little good.
mats: ^ "US business inventories rise; sales flat"
ascii_field: mats: 'the chocolate ratio went up to 25 grams from the old 50'
pete_dushenski: mats: ascii_field this is the city of edmonton's "we improved our asphalt technologee in the 1990s but it turned out to last 1/4 as long as the stuff from the 1960s"
pete_dushenski: adlai: i am actually, and now i have no idea if this is something to be addressed, and if so, how.
adlai: the common cold of the information age
adlai has seen this often on many sites, only now commented about it
adlai: oh, it's sporadic: reloading the page now has "fixed" it
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but do you know it is in fact a biological answer << after a certain amount of exposure, and getting weaker rather than stronger, one leans that - if there was an age where having one's legs pulled on, would have lengthened them - that age is past
adlai: mircea_popescu: so are the average price diamonds in mpex thumbnails intentionally so dark as to cause the bewildered visitor to question his eyesight or sanity, until he confirms that they are in fact of different hue?
ascii_field: nubbins`: the only thing that'll make alf walk away is alf << nubbins` would probably be rather surprised to learn that - other than the physical separation from wildlife (e.g., nubbins`'s roommate) - i have very few luxuries
ascii_field: (i do not consider eating genuine, vs. recycled food, a luxury. just as air on a space capsule is not a luxury, even if it costs what gold costs down on earth)
mats: warehouse of computer antiques sounds like a lot of luxuries to me.
ascii_field: mats: 'warehouse' is a bit of exaggeration. the whole lot would (and did, when i moved) fit in a small van.
mats: in any event -- i'm envious. my living space is too small to accommodate much more than what i could fit in a hatchback
mats: rent is not nearly as usurious, as, say, DC, but a space like mine (own room, roommates adjacent) costs... $1k/mo
ascii_field: mats: i lived in a flat quite like (from what i can tell) yours, for most of a decade.
ascii_field: and my new digs aren't quite big enough to make any difference space-wise. i moved to a free-standing building mainly to get further away from other human beings
ascii_field: admittedly i no longer have the 'nazi submarine' atmosphere of the old flat (bulkheads in every conceivable space, objects hanging to fill every gap, etc.)
mats: i prefer to live with other humans. that way, they can find my corpse before the smell of decay sets in. hopefully.
adlai: why would the smell bother you?
adlai: "live fast, die young, leave a good-looking corpse" says nothing about the absence of respirators for the autopsy team
mats: so some folks have time to hunt the man that did the deed
ascii_field: 'The former security director "was 'obsessed' with root kits, a type of computer program that can be installed quickly, set to do just about anything, and then self-destruct without a trace," prosecutors wrote. They went on to say a witness would testify at trial that Tipton told him before December 2010 that he had a self-destructing rootkit.' << 'hands off the specialist toolz, plebe'
Chillum: why did he not get an accomplice to buy the ticket
lobbes: maybe he didn't have a wot
Chillum: How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00029823 = 4.4735 BTC [+]
Chillum: his hostile code should have sat dormant for 6 months, then someone with no obvious connection to him should have got the ticket
ascii_field: when corrupt orc from gaggle of equally-corrupt similar orcs is charged with 'corruption' - what is the reason, always and invariably ?
ascii_field: mats, williamdunne: didn't share with superiors. or pissed'em off in some other way.
mircea_popescu: <mats> warehouse of computer antiques sounds like a lot of luxuries to me. << anything sounds like a luxury to someone somewhere!
mircea_popescu: <Chillum> How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes << whole thing reads to me more like a case of baxies than anything legitimately prosecutable.
mircea_popescu: "man that didn't shoot the cop had a gun! neighbours saw it!"
ascii_field: <Chillum> his hostile code should have sat dormant for 6 months, then someone with no obvious connection to him should have got the ticket << i suppose this is when nubbins` says 'learn the dark marketz, anyone can!' and mircea_popescu tells us about the superiority of human dark org vs relying on machines
ascii_field wonders how many years of jail are given for predicting the output of a legit, un-pwned winblows rng in lottery
ascii_field: Chillum: How can people be so clever yet make such dumb mistakes << autists like ulbricht/dpr get nailed by trusting in meat. 'eusocial' folks like mr lottery -also- get nailed by trusting in meat. just like when an airplane falls, pilots and passengers get same fate
ascii_field: does not so much matter that one 'knew how to fly' and other - did not
ascii_field: the mistake of each, to the extent the stories publicly known are even factual, is 'dunning-kruger'-ing their reach far past their grasp.
ascii_field: the 'up-side' - perhaps the only one - of being a hermit monster is that the tools built for nailing the 'eusocial' don't work on you. i.e. you negrate a usg shill in your mind at most forty seconds after initial contact
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00029786 = 1.5042 BTC [-]
ascii_field grants that somewhere on the far outskirts of the retardation spectrum, there lies the land of 'there are no shills! finally someone is willing to be my -phriend!- 111!!111 stop insulting my -phriendz-!!!11' but has not, fortunately, gone there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00030217 = 5.0613 BTC [+]
lobbes: even hermits must put some trust in meat? Is not the hermit, himself, meat?
ascii_field: 'trust in meat' in the thread was 'what nailed lottery-man'
ascii_field: that is, the fact that he did not stick 100% to diddling the machines under cover of dark
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00029741 = 4.1043 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> nubbins`: if i worked in a cubicle, the last thing i would do is buy a pogo and mess with it << what did you buy and play with instead? a nagant, testing how it feels in the mouth, as in mircea_popescu's 'dulap' story ? <<< not in so many words :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00029339 = 3.55 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: <+adlai> like satoshi without MSVC <<< my kingdom for some more sides
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00030217 = 6.6024 BTC [+]
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> <mircea_popescu> and YET you protest the hyena << so i had a quiet and physically clean upbringing. this is who i am. i get that it gives me a short life expectancy, yes. but jumping from cliffs doesn't grow wings, no. <<< the sets of {co-inhabitants} and {dirtbags} don't have as complete an overlap as you'd think
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> (i do not consider eating genuine, vs. recycled food, a luxury. just as air on a space capsule is not a luxury, even if it costs what gold costs down on earth) <<< i don't fully buy into the "it's cheaper to eat shitty" mentality, but it's my understanding that the dynamics involved therein are vastly different in your country
nubbins`: that said, i'm pretty sure a 15kg bag of rice doesn't cost much more than a few shit sandwiches from mcd's anywhere in north america
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00029196 = 3.4451 BTC [-] {2}
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you for your considerations, you're right. nubbins` thank you for comprehend.
ascii_field: nubbins`: not even chinese live on rice alone
ascii_field: nubbins`: go try eating, e.g., plankton for the rest of your life
nubbins`: nor do people live on big macs alone
ascii_field: nubbins`: academic, though. food is scarcely a tenth of it
nubbins`: but i'm of the opinion that very few adult north americans have even the faintest idea of how to feed themselves properly, let alone on a sensible budget
nubbins`: ascii_field your average bezzle cubicle dweller prob spends 25% of gross income on food
felipelalli: nubbins`: you said "don't worry, you're new" something like that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14059 @ 0.00029274 = 4.1156 BTC [+]
ascii_field: nubbins`: you are quite right, that the situation is very different in usa.
ascii_field: nubbins`: if i did not have a full-time pet to handle the food problem, i would probably have to survive on something like military rations.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> nubbins`: if i did not have a full-time pet to handle the food problem, i would probably have to survive on something like military rations. << Sprats come in can, RATIONS!!!
ascii_field: does not make for effective 'mens sana in corpore sano', this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00030217 = 2.1303 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00030217 = 11.4825 BTC [+]
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: military rations are good ?! << nope - very bad, but with minimal effort. like the 'hiring shaman - hire cheapest' theorem.
chetty: so standing in a line I was noticing all the people doing whatever on cellphones, all I could think was "For this we evolved opposable thumbs?"
lobbes: to be fair, I am quite guilty of this. Either that or stare frantically around the room while trying not to make eye contact with anyone
lobbes: good time to catch up on the logs, eh
mats: i can't even imagine the vast number of neck, back, and general injuries from poor posture the world will see in a decade
hanbot: ascii_field cooking *is* minimal effort, just gotta learn.
hanbot: why not make eye contact?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00030217 = 6.2096 BTC [+]
ascii_field: eye contact << because when you make eye contact, folks shoot lasers from their eyes into yours
adlai: actually there's this game a friend of mine "invented", where you must maintain eye contact whenever it is accidentally (or not) made with a stranger
adlai: this was all fun and games until he met somebody else who appeared to be playing the same game
adlai: (you lose if you're the first to break eye contact)
adlai: there was glass between them, the other guy was sitting in the outside patio of a cafe... and they just stared at eachother until my friend gave up
adlai: had the glass not been there, i guess tehy'd have been required to either fight or mate
adlai: they would be eachother's prize
hanbot: pretty good safety glass then.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13378 @ 0.0003009 = 4.0254 BTC [-]
assbot: Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8374 @ 0.0003009 = 2.5197 BTC [-]
adlai: bird landed on safety glass, but too hard for survival
adlai: this elon, he's a clever guy. oughtta do marketing.
mircea_popescu: when restorepkg takes longer to process than wget takes to download one can't complain.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i had no idea there was restorepkg for a «Сетунь» !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18386 @ 0.00030217 = 5.5557 BTC [+]
ascii_field: you know, the computer mircea_popescu uses
ascii_field did not think. was mostly occupied with mining one last bucket of salt before blasting off
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7848 @ 0.0003009 = 2.3615 BTC [-]
gribble: Current Blocks: 352154 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 645 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 4 hours, 31 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48730678236.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -1.44745
gribble: Bitfinex | There are currently 9989.9373 bitcoins demanded at or over 200.0 USD, worth 2101912.00544 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0095 seconds
gribble: Error: 'bitstamp' is not a valid non-negative floating point number.
gribble: Bitstamp | There are currently 2349.8963 bitcoins demanded at or over 200.0 USD, worth 483208.939584 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0509 seconds
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 218.05, Best ask: 218.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 218.1, 24 hour volume: 52461.868259, 24 hour low: 216.37, 24 hour high: 227.89, 24 hour vwap: None
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 215.24, Best ask: 215.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.26000, Last trade: 215.22, 24 hour volume: 18648.16191006, 24 hour low: 210.0, 24 hour high: 224.8, 24 hour vwap: 218.672310487
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00030217 = 1.7979 BTC [+]
adlai: i swear, you stop looking at a market for a few days, and it goes crazy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00030035 = 2.9434 BTC [-]
adlai brb selling dog for bitcoin
adlai: pawning may be a better term
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21547 @ 0.0002997 = 6.4576 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11315 @ 0.00030217 = 3.4191 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00030217 = 5.016 BTC [+]
jurov: lol TheNewDeal. what a statement.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00030231 = 4.3835 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00030235 = 4.6562 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00029738 = 4.1931 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00030235 = 6.2133 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5710 @ 0.00030235 = 1.7264 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27950 @ 0.000302 = 8.4409 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13532 @ 0.00030068 = 4.0688 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough the derps should even know who i am, but of course nobody keeps any sort of track of their customers these days.
mircea_popescu: "Today, it's all gone. You get a whale show up with four million in a suitcase, and some twenty-five-year-old hotel school kid is gonna want his Social Security Number."
BingoBoingo: But I don't think Meatspace Vegas managed to elude the USG's money tracking slime mold